Myself I got Dolch or Panasonic Toughbook vibes. The EMS guys all used them on calls and they took a lot of abuse. Surprisingly light for as durable as they were.
Back in the day when I was doing DSL installs during the summer, I watched a telco guy accidentally back over his (crouched down to tie his boot, set it down behind the tire…) and was shocked when he got out of the van, opened it, clicked around a bit, shrugged, and carried on.
This clearly needs dual batteries so you can hotswap batteries. Kinda love this concept of a power tool battery powered field computer. Would be cool for drone base station devices
I spent an unreasonable amount of time on tool batteries...
The most recent ones often use tabless 21700 or 18650 cells and can push between 50 to 90A of power (at 20-21v) that's a lot of power. They can power electric bicycles too.
They can definitely power laptops or even dedicated GPUs, but not more than at 100W.
Without regulations, tool makers use battery formats as a consumer lock-in mechanism.. unfortunately.
I think for the 18v-21v Makita format batteries, happen to have a lot of makita-compatible 3rd party tools and batters, they cannot use makita charges but can fit makita ecosystem otherwise (tools and batteries). At 18-21 v -- these are also well compatible with a USB-C triggering voltage.
Going back to tool battery to USB-C converters. To get max 240W out of the USB-C PD protocol, you would need a 48V battery.
20v batteries will not cut it (because of 5A limit of the protocol).
When you see that a USB-C adapter for a tool battery can provide over 100w of power, check if the manufacture means, through more than one port at the same time (rather than in one USB-C port)
The other thing -- is that some tool makers (eg Makita, Ryobi) have the BMS (Battery management system) circuit in the battery, but others --like dewalt , have it in the tool.
It is a fire hazard to use a lithium battery without a BMS, because if the voltage drops in one or more cells below like 3.0v -- it may ignite. So using say dewalt batteries outside of their tool (or tools that explicitly manage battery voltage) -- may be dangerous, in my mind (and I am not an electrical engineer by any means...)
Anyways, when choosing a battery system -- make sure you understand if the BMS is in the battery or the tool (as batteries without BMS should not be used in any applications that do not provide a BMS function)
I have wondered if it is possible to create an adapter with a BMS that sits between the battery and tool, but allows you to adapt any one manufacturer's battery to any other manufacturer's tool. It irks me that they use that as an anti-consumer-choice device, but when I started working with 12V LiFePo "smart" batteries that had a BMS offering some level of remote diagnostics and control, it got me thinking that something like that could be possible? Is anyone working on such a device, or am I just pipe-dreaming about something I do not fully understand the problems of, yet?
Well it wouldn't be just one adapter, because the battery standards are also all mechanically incompatible.
But yes you can make makita -> dewalt and dewalt -> makita etc. adapters and include the BMS whenever necessary. You'll end up with n² adapters for n battery systems. If you're willing to stack adapters, you can reduce this to 2n (e.g. by having everything -> makita and makita -> everything). Nobody 'official' sells these, but you can find them on sites like etsy or aliexpress.
Some of them do the correct thing w.r.t. battery safety but many just YOLO it, so I would only use them after taking a really close look at the circuitry. It's not just about the cases where you need to add the full BMS, but also about forwarding the right signals. For example, one battery system may use a simple NTC pin to communicate temperature, another may use a digital protocol, so the adapter would ideally convert between those two.
Going back to tool battery to USB-C converters. To get max 240W out of the USB-C PD protocol, you would need a 48V battery. 20v batteries will not cut it (because of 5A limit of the protocol).
You can just use a DC-DC converter to give you the right voltage. They're really cheap and effective these days.
You'd probably want one anyway even if you're only ever going to draw 20V, as a voltage regulator (the actual battery voltage will go as high as 21V and as low as ~16V). USB-PD specifies a tolerance of ±5% on source voltage, so 21% is cutting it close and 16V is far, far out of spec.
Edit: one more thing
It is a fire hazard to use a lithium battery without a BMS, because if the voltage drops in one or more cells below like 3.0v -- it may ignite.
The first part is true, the second is not really true. Yes, using it without a BMS is a fire hazard, but dropping a cell below 3V is not. You can discharge a lithium ion battery cell all the way to 0V and you will only have a (permanently) dead battery, not a fire. The operations that can cause fire are
Too high voltage (anything far above 4.3V)
Too much current, either charge or discharge
Short circuit (really a special case of too much current)
I’m not going to link to specific products on Amazon, but this is surprisingly available! Couple of weeks ago I grabbed a little unit for $40 that clips onto Milwaukee M18 batteries and has USB-C in and out. It says it can do 140W. I haven’t tried that yet but I have successfully charged it at 65W and discharged it at 45W very happily. Will hopefully be testing it with my Pinecil today (real reason I bought it is to solder away from power but the fact that it can charge an iPad or laptop is a nice secondary perk)
I have one of those and also one with a tiny inverter so I can plug mains AC loads into it. For running a lamp during a power outage it works perfectly. For running an air mattress inflater while camping... we slept on the ground.
Heh, I'm laughing a fair bit about that... not at your misfortune but at our joint misfortune. I've got a pretty hefty 500 Wh or so luggable power bank that has 12Vdc (cigarette lighter plug) and 120Vac output. Internally I'm guessing it's something like a 6S LiPoly or LiFePO4 or something, haven't ever opened it up to check. I was very disappointed a few weeks ago to discover that my bike tire was flat and that the 12V air pump I have absolutely would not start when running off that thing. The startup surge pushed it into some kind of protection when downconverting to 12V, even though the 12V plug says it's rated for 10A (which is the same as most in-vehicle cigarette plug fuses).
I would love more high level info on this because it’s a blond spot for me and I feel like we always get bitten when camping (not like that) by cordless tools that claim to be able to do a thing but then blanch at the task in the rough. How can I account for these sorts of issues, if you don’t mind.
Well… in the last few years I’ve spent a lot more time doing professional field work in, let’s call it for lack of a better word, austere conditions. My basic philosophy is that until a capability has been demonstrated multiple times it doesn’t exist. New tools sometimes get a spot in the pelican case, but they don’t get to be on the critical path until they’ve proven their value a few times.
Back when I was doing a fair bit of backcountry skiing and hiking, we would typically do a low-stakes trial run of our packs a few weeks before the big show. Eg the kit that I took on the West Coast Trail was tested on a 7km out-and-back overnight hike a few weeks before. Not to say that that guaranteed everything went smoothly, but the stuff that didn’t work out quite right was minor.
I feel like you could slide 4x CXT or 2x LXT (2AH compact) batteries in the back of something like this and even stay partway slim!
Though if I were making something like this out of power tool batteries, I’d be doing a 5-6x wide array (and maybe even two arrays) of Ryobi USB Lithiums. Ultra cheap from any Home Depot and if you have a few of the USB Lithium household gadgets you inevitably wind up with way too many of the stupid batteries anyway.
I love this! I’m wondering what the limit on battery size is you can bring on a plane. Being able to bring multiple 5ah batteries for an international trip would be nice.
I believe that each pack has to be under 100 Wh, so a 5A 18V-nominal pack is right at the limit. And you could probably have a couple of packs.
The thing to be careful of imo isn’t actually the tool batteries but the tools themselves. In the US at least there seems to be regulations around how big of tools you’re allowed in your carry-on, enforced sporadically. On the trip home once I almost had to ditch a Very Expensive set of crimpers at the TSA checkpoint because they were too long… but I was able to remove the crimp die from them and got them under the length cutoff. They were expensive enough that I would’ve probably decided to miss my flight and rebook (and check them) before leaving them behind.
That’s fair. FWIW they are working on a new set of “Quasar” modules that will dramatically increase performance — those may be worth keeping an eye on (in a year+, likely)
This is cool as all get out to me. I've been kicking around taking a spare waterproof Nanuk case I have and using the collection of arm SBCs I have collecting dust, acquiring a battery/UPS designed for mobile radio etc. with a step down converter and distribution block to get the 5V I need for them, a Mikrotik Hex I have lying around, a 60% keyboard I didn't like as a daily, and a laptop screen I saved to assemble into a cluster in a box for... I don't know what... demonstrations? field entertainment? I lack a 3D printer so was considering hand shaping uhdpe blocks (or laminating cheap cutting boards since they're cheaper than even recycled uhdpe) since I can use my existing scroll saw, drill press, and dremel tools. All I need is time :)
This is very very close to v0 of my cyberdeck I designed. The execution on this slurptop is way sleaker and nicer than I was able to achieve. The trackball and extra thumb keys, except mine I planned to use buttons from fighting games/joypads. The problem for me is one specific design feature that I'm having trouble giving up, which is the keyboard shape.
The curve of the advantage kinesis is something I can't go back from. I have my own shell which uses the kinesis PCB with a custom controller and custom shell modeled after the curve, but the curve makes it a lot less portable (also the fact that I widened it from the middle so it fits perfectly on my lap).
I wonder if you've ever considered the curved keywells or how to design them or nah.
My desktop and laptop both have Ryzen CPUs and 64GiB RAM - provisioned before the AIpocalypse, but, I'd still try to stretch to that today. The answer is containerised development, Docker in Linux and these days bhyve in FreeBSD. Plus VirtualBox for retro gaming.
[OP] hoistbypetard | 22 hours ago
This reminds me, in a good way, of the portable computers you used to see prior to 1991 or so.
classichasclass | 21 hours ago
Myself I got Dolch or Panasonic Toughbook vibes. The EMS guys all used them on calls and they took a lot of abuse. Surprisingly light for as durable as they were.
tonyarkles | 20 hours ago
Back in the day when I was doing DSL installs during the summer, I watched a telco guy accidentally back over his (crouched down to tie his boot, set it down behind the tire…) and was shocked when he got out of the van, opened it, clicked around a bit, shrugged, and carried on.
[OP] hoistbypetard | 17 hours ago
I definitely see the Toughbook vibes there now that you mention it.
The general shape and the full size keys + trackball plus the big battery in the back were what made me think of the Mac Portable and other similar devices of the era.
cajually | 21 hours ago
This clearly needs dual batteries so you can hotswap batteries. Kinda love this concept of a power tool battery powered field computer. Would be cool for drone base station devices
vladislavp | 11 hours ago
I spent an unreasonable amount of time on tool batteries... The most recent ones often use tabless 21700 or 18650 cells and can push between 50 to 90A of power (at 20-21v) that's a lot of power. They can power electric bicycles too.
They can definitely power laptops or even dedicated GPUs, but not more than at 100W.
Without regulations, tool makers use battery formats as a consumer lock-in mechanism.. unfortunately.
I think for the 18v-21v Makita format batteries, happen to have a lot of makita-compatible 3rd party tools and batters, they cannot use makita charges but can fit makita ecosystem otherwise (tools and batteries). At 18-21 v -- these are also well compatible with a USB-C triggering voltage.
Going back to tool battery to USB-C converters. To get max 240W out of the USB-C PD protocol, you would need a 48V battery. 20v batteries will not cut it (because of 5A limit of the protocol).
When you see that a USB-C adapter for a tool battery can provide over 100w of power, check if the manufacture means, through more than one port at the same time (rather than in one USB-C port)
The other thing -- is that some tool makers (eg Makita, Ryobi) have the BMS (Battery management system) circuit in the battery, but others --like dewalt , have it in the tool.
It is a fire hazard to use a lithium battery without a BMS, because if the voltage drops in one or more cells below like 3.0v -- it may ignite. So using say dewalt batteries outside of their tool (or tools that explicitly manage battery voltage) -- may be dangerous, in my mind (and I am not an electrical engineer by any means...)
Anyways, when choosing a battery system -- make sure you understand if the BMS is in the battery or the tool (as batteries without BMS should not be used in any applications that do not provide a BMS function)
tinsmith | 2 hours ago
I have wondered if it is possible to create an adapter with a BMS that sits between the battery and tool, but allows you to adapt any one manufacturer's battery to any other manufacturer's tool. It irks me that they use that as an anti-consumer-choice device, but when I started working with 12V LiFePo "smart" batteries that had a BMS offering some level of remote diagnostics and control, it got me thinking that something like that could be possible? Is anyone working on such a device, or am I just pipe-dreaming about something I do not fully understand the problems of, yet?
muvlon | 51 minutes ago
Well it wouldn't be just one adapter, because the battery standards are also all mechanically incompatible.
But yes you can make makita -> dewalt and dewalt -> makita etc. adapters and include the BMS whenever necessary. You'll end up with n² adapters for n battery systems. If you're willing to stack adapters, you can reduce this to 2n (e.g. by having everything -> makita and makita -> everything). Nobody 'official' sells these, but you can find them on sites like etsy or aliexpress.
Some of them do the correct thing w.r.t. battery safety but many just YOLO it, so I would only use them after taking a really close look at the circuitry. It's not just about the cases where you need to add the full BMS, but also about forwarding the right signals. For example, one battery system may use a simple NTC pin to communicate temperature, another may use a digital protocol, so the adapter would ideally convert between those two.
muvlon | an hour ago
You can just use a DC-DC converter to give you the right voltage. They're really cheap and effective these days.
You'd probably want one anyway even if you're only ever going to draw 20V, as a voltage regulator (the actual battery voltage will go as high as 21V and as low as ~16V). USB-PD specifies a tolerance of ±5% on source voltage, so 21% is cutting it close and 16V is far, far out of spec.
Edit: one more thing
The first part is true, the second is not really true. Yes, using it without a BMS is a fire hazard, but dropping a cell below 3V is not. You can discharge a lithium ion battery cell all the way to 0V and you will only have a (permanently) dead battery, not a fire. The operations that can cause fire are
tonyarkles | 20 hours ago
I’m not going to link to specific products on Amazon, but this is surprisingly available! Couple of weeks ago I grabbed a little unit for $40 that clips onto Milwaukee M18 batteries and has USB-C in and out. It says it can do 140W. I haven’t tried that yet but I have successfully charged it at 65W and discharged it at 45W very happily. Will hopefully be testing it with my Pinecil today (real reason I bought it is to solder away from power but the fact that it can charge an iPad or laptop is a nice secondary perk)
cajually | 20 hours ago
That sounds perfect actually, thanks!
haroldp | 18 hours ago
I have one of those and also one with a tiny inverter so I can plug mains AC loads into it. For running a lamp during a power outage it works perfectly. For running an air mattress inflater while camping... we slept on the ground.
tonyarkles | 17 hours ago
Heh, I'm laughing a fair bit about that... not at your misfortune but at our joint misfortune. I've got a pretty hefty 500 Wh or so luggable power bank that has 12Vdc (cigarette lighter plug) and 120Vac output. Internally I'm guessing it's something like a 6S LiPoly or LiFePO4 or something, haven't ever opened it up to check. I was very disappointed a few weeks ago to discover that my bike tire was flat and that the 12V air pump I have absolutely would not start when running off that thing. The startup surge pushed it into some kind of protection when downconverting to 12V, even though the 12V plug says it's rated for 10A (which is the same as most in-vehicle cigarette plug fuses).
tclancy | 10 hours ago
I would love more high level info on this because it’s a blond spot for me and I feel like we always get bitten when camping (not like that) by cordless tools that claim to be able to do a thing but then blanch at the task in the rough. How can I account for these sorts of issues, if you don’t mind.
tonyarkles | 9 hours ago
Well… in the last few years I’ve spent a lot more time doing professional field work in, let’s call it for lack of a better word, austere conditions. My basic philosophy is that until a capability has been demonstrated multiple times it doesn’t exist. New tools sometimes get a spot in the pelican case, but they don’t get to be on the critical path until they’ve proven their value a few times.
Back when I was doing a fair bit of backcountry skiing and hiking, we would typically do a low-stakes trial run of our packs a few weeks before the big show. Eg the kit that I took on the West Coast Trail was tested on a 7km out-and-back overnight hike a few weeks before. Not to say that that guaranteed everything went smoothly, but the stuff that didn’t work out quite right was minor.
alexjurkiewicz | 21 hours ago
As a one off 3d-printed art piece this is obviously delicate as hell, but I love the industrial design, it looks like you could drive a car over it.
mhd | 20 hours ago
I'd like one of those that goes all out with the Makita aesthetic.
klardotsh | 14 hours ago
I feel like you could slide 4x CXT or 2x LXT (2AH compact) batteries in the back of something like this and even stay partway slim!
Though if I were making something like this out of power tool batteries, I’d be doing a 5-6x wide array (and maybe even two arrays) of Ryobi USB Lithiums. Ultra cheap from any Home Depot and if you have a few of the USB Lithium household gadgets you inevitably wind up with way too many of the stupid batteries anyway.
schneems | 20 hours ago
I love this! I’m wondering what the limit on battery size is you can bring on a plane. Being able to bring multiple 5ah batteries for an international trip would be nice.
tonyarkles | 20 hours ago
I believe that each pack has to be under 100 Wh, so a 5A 18V-nominal pack is right at the limit. And you could probably have a couple of packs.
The thing to be careful of imo isn’t actually the tool batteries but the tools themselves. In the US at least there seems to be regulations around how big of tools you’re allowed in your carry-on, enforced sporadically. On the trip home once I almost had to ditch a Very Expensive set of crimpers at the TSA checkpoint because they were too long… but I was able to remove the crimp die from them and got them under the length cutoff. They were expensive enough that I would’ve probably decided to miss my flight and rebook (and check them) before leaving them behind.
lproven | 20 hours ago
I like it! Beats a Frame.work. 😍
tinsnail | 17 hours ago
You may appreciate MNT’s laptops if you want something closer to this aesthetic but mass(-ish) produced. Open hardware as well!
lproven | 16 hours ago
I have looked and they're interesting in a while bunch of ways, but the price:performance ration isn't great IMHO.
tinsnail | 14 hours ago
That’s fair. FWIW they are working on a new set of “Quasar” modules that will dramatically increase performance — those may be worth keeping an eye on (in a year+, likely)
ThatsInteresting | 19 hours ago
This is cool as all get out to me. I've been kicking around taking a spare waterproof Nanuk case I have and using the collection of arm SBCs I have collecting dust, acquiring a battery/UPS designed for mobile radio etc. with a step down converter and distribution block to get the 5V I need for them, a Mikrotik Hex I have lying around, a 60% keyboard I didn't like as a daily, and a laptop screen I saved to assemble into a cluster in a box for... I don't know what... demonstrations? field entertainment? I lack a 3D printer so was considering hand shaping uhdpe blocks (or laminating cheap cutting boards since they're cheaper than even recycled uhdpe) since I can use my existing scroll saw, drill press, and dremel tools. All I need is time :)
AshkanKiani | 14 hours ago
This is very very close to v0 of my cyberdeck I designed. The execution on this slurptop is way sleaker and nicer than I was able to achieve. The trackball and extra thumb keys, except mine I planned to use buttons from fighting games/joypads. The problem for me is one specific design feature that I'm having trouble giving up, which is the keyboard shape.
The curve of the advantage kinesis is something I can't go back from. I have my own shell which uses the kinesis PCB with a custom controller and custom shell modeled after the curve, but the curve makes it a lot less portable (also the fact that I widened it from the middle so it fits perfectly on my lap).
I wonder if you've ever considered the curved keywells or how to design them or nah.
motet-a | 14 hours ago
Really cool, but why 64GB of RAM in a laptop with a tiny GPU? This is expensive!
duncan_bayne | 8 hours ago
My desktop and laptop both have Ryzen CPUs and 64GiB RAM - provisioned before the AIpocalypse, but, I'd still try to stretch to that today. The answer is containerised development, Docker in Linux and these days bhyve in FreeBSD. Plus VirtualBox for retro gaming.
reverendpaco | 10 hours ago
that is beautiful... I was transported back to my Tonka-truck loving youth
david_chisnall | 2 hours ago
A cool project but the name made me expect this form factor and I'm sad it didn't.
skerritt | 33 minutes ago
this is so cool!!