We have an incompetent government. We have an indignant and uneducated populace, and our country is on the verge of chaos.
Nothing any of us can do to stop whatever may yet come associated with this, and if it does actually become a pandemic, I doubt we even have the willpower to make additional sacrifices to prevent it from getting worse. You surely can’t count on the American health leadership (RFK) to be honest about how this goes.
I can’t imagine how bad everything would get if this becomes mainstream.
WHO’s Dr Maria Van Kerkhove mumbled about “close contact” again two weeks ago instead of detailing what airborne spread is. Long term it’s indoor air cleaning we need. My FFP2 use ensured I didn’t get COVID, but lord I wish governments would legislate clean indoor air and start fining building operators that are doing nothing!
It isn’t the Rich’s responsibility to pay. I swear guys, you guys act like the rich has the ability to bail everyone out of every issue.
What would you consider rich?
The chaos is really in how terrible our media has become. It is absolutely breakneck and jarring.
You can wake up in the morning and be told we are at war, hear that we have a peace treaty by noon, and then find out we kidnapped another country’s leader by 4pm. By 8pm our leader is tweeting and posting about nuclear apocalypse on Truth Social.
Life itself has barely changed at all; but the news cycle has become absolute madness over here because we no longer have a free press and all critics and media outlets are being censored and gobbled up the the oligarchs. That part sucks ass.
It certainly seems like the GOP is setting up multiple streams of reasons why we can’t have elections.
A war, an energy crisis, a pandemic (being framed as 2x if you consider all the speculation about Hantavirus, despite all experts saying it is not a big deal) endless gerrymandering, etc.
If we we even get an election it seems like it is going to be manipulated heavily, but I could definitely see a wartime powers act being unleashed at the last minute.
…who the FUCK do you normally speak for when you post? Do you normally comment on behalf of Ireland? Slovenia?
It is implied that, when you are speaking, you speak from the perspective of your country, where you live. If you can’t discern that, it means you are a stupid fool. Jesus Christ leave it to Reddit to get uppity for not including everyone else all the time.
So MY part of the world is the US, and that is what I was speaking to, since that apparently wasn’t discernible from my comment.
Not who you were replying to, and your point is absolutely fair, but "our government" doesn't identify which government.
Towards the end of your comment you discuss American healthcare, but you still don't say that's where you are from. It's hard to discern when there is no information to extrapolate from.
The easy way to fix this would be to stop thinking you're the center of the universe. Most other non-arrogant nations would have started your comment with:
>We have an incompetent government in the US/Ireland/Solvenia.
See how easy it is to not think the world revolves around you.
Seems very unlikely, however. This is the challenge with things always being overhyped like this headline. People are numb to "this show storm/hurricane/heat/cold" will be some of the worst in history! Run to the grocery store now!" So often it ends up being noise. That's why we don't run out of a building when the fire alarm goes off (look at all the 9/11 stories from the towers where people didn't bolt right away in some cases). So here we are: Covid was going to kill us all. Until it didn't and it really was more dangerous for the elderly and obese and the rest of us just needed to hang out outside more. Instead we had kids arrested development due to the noise/paranoia/or teacher's simply wanting to get paid to stay home (depending on your viewpoint). So now here is a 'we are doomed' headline. Are we? Probably not. But if we are in trouble it will be worse than imagined, right? Because we think it is BS (likely is).
One of the major reasons that COVID didn't kill us all was having lockdowns. With people at home, not only was it harder for COVID to spread, but things like car accidents reduced too. Which meant that hospitals had enough capacity to treat those unwell with COVID.
We will never know what the death toll would have been without lockdowns and the vaccines, but people stating that those interventions weren't necessary, because they achieved the desired effect, doesn't make sense to me.
Humans are notoriously bad at objectively seeing cause and effect or understanding how actions and results relate, it seems. Isn't part of the reason why vaccine hesitancy is rising because generations have been vaccinated so successfully that people don't believe that those diseases are dangerous anymore?
Absolutely. It really boils down to both ignorance, and a massive belief that "doing your own research" makes a person as qualified to comment, as people who literally make this their life's work.
It absolutely baffles me that no one would want their neighbour to perform open heart surgery on them, but when it comes to other medical procedures, suddenly the public are just as qualified as professionals.
Edit: if people want to know which vaccines are statistically safer than the disease they are designed to mitigate against, look at what countries with universal healthcare do. To avoid having to raise taxes, the governments have a vested interest in keeping costs as low as possible, and the population as healthy as possible. So if there isn't a decent cost/benefit analysis, then mass vaccination campaigns won't happen.
COVID literally directly killed millions of people globally, including young and fit people, albeit in lower numbers, and it has led to many more deaths from post viral complications, not to mention millions suffering from long COVID and having their lives destroyed. You live in a fantasy world. It has and continues to cause enormous damage.
Oh ffs. The reason so many will push back now is because of how political and overreaching the last time was with all the disinformation and outright lies. I said it in 2020/21. The harder the overreaching was like the STUPID rules of shutting down churches or silencing any questioning of the origin of the virus, the worse it was going to be when the next one comes which will inevitably be worse. This should never have been political
Stopping people from congregating to catch each other's infections and carrying them off to spread through their communities? How cruel and unfair! People should be free to be their own Typhoid Mary if they want to!
Erm, it wasn't political in many countries, and certainly wasn't overreach?
Plenty of countries shut down churches, and the churches absolutely agreed with it. It was about not having loads of people in a room together, potentially breathing a virus on each other. Most sensible congregations absolutely agreed that it was necessary in order to protect the most vulnerable In society, and that that outweighed the short term rights of the individual to cough unmasked in church. Hence churches moving to zoom.
In many countries the general view was that it was better to have the population alive and able to bitch about the restrictions.
America is part of the world. The article is about the world not being ready. America is not ready for another pandemic. America is cited multiple times in the article.
And administration's who took it seriously, let the experts advise people, didnt suggest that we stop testing so that the numbers looked better........
What utter hogwash. Nobody claimed completely stopping it was likely, but the right squelled and cried at even the most basic mitigation strategies. And they won, in the end. The next pandemic will be worse.
Except many countries did? Compare the COVID deaths of USA to Canada, their direct neighbor and most similar country and you'll see that a lot more lives could have been saved. Leadership plays a HUGE role.
Health also plays a role though. Over 40% of Americans are considered obese compared to under 30% of Canadians. We also know that covid had significantly more impact on the obese and elderly than it did on healthier individuals
Also probably related to leadership, over a longer time, probably decades prior to covid. Garbage food, poor Healthcare availability and lower birth rates related to income inequality set the US up to be more vulnerable.
The chimp who was "running" America made idiotic statements almost daily for months. Everything he said caused morons to fight against common sense measures. tRUMP is a psychopath and is directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths.
Honest?!?! Was the last administration or the CDC honest about the last pandemic? They are just gonna vilify the cure and rebrand it and sell it to you. Sound familiar?
The problem is COVID destroyed any hope of the world responding to a “game ender” pandemic, think Spanish flu and higher.
Also when I got COVID in the early days it really scared me how easily transmissible it was. If there is something like COVID but more deadly, game over.
The thing is the more deadly a disease is the less infectious it is. Morbidly it starts to kill off its hosts.
Edit: This only applies if the disease kills before spreading. There are diseases like HIV which tend to linger a long time before killing which gives much more time to spread.
Something like HIV, but airborne would be devastating. It was universally fatal before a treatment was found, yet you could have it and be spreading it for months.
The Virus is Digested: Unlike malaria or dengue fever, HIV does not survive or replicate within a mosquito. The virus is treated as food and is broken down in the insect's digestive system within one to two days.
Two-Tube System: Mosquitoes do not inject blood from a previous host into a new victim. They utilize a two-tubed proboscis: one tube injects saliva to act as an anesthetic and lubricant, while the other draws blood.
No Viral Load: Even if a mosquito were to retain a microscopic amount of HIV-infected blood on its mouthparts, the amount of virus is far too low to transmit an infection.
Dangerous oversimplification. You could be infected with a hypothetical asymptomatic and contagious pathogen for a decade and it’s has 100% mortality in 11 years. In the first ten years it spreads to every soul and then everyone dies.
If there was actually some bubonic plague level disease going around, I guarantee people would begin to take it seriously eventually. It would be tremendously damaging, but people dropping dead at a rate like that would be eye opening. Besides it's self selecting at that point. If it's truly deadly and contagious, anyone who's not trying to protect themselves is just going to die off, leaving only the people making an attempt
I mean I’m not sure about that. There is going to be a huge section of the population that is like “people are freaking out just like COVID and looked what happened”, there will be enough of those that spread to the innocent. Combine that with employers and government that will be less forgiving about people that WANT to shelter in place and you have a recipe for disaster. Also I think the front like employees (poor people) will be put in the line of fire to “keep the economy going”. I think people are underestimating how much damage COVID did to society’s sense of community.
Yeah.. the bad thing about general rules of thumb is that in this case there are absolutely edge cases that dont fit it.
AI could probably already find a way to merge covid with something much more deadly (in a lab), and there are evil people in the world who would absolutely make it.
I keep thinking about that movie Contagion. If we have a virus that is that deadly (much worse than COVID) we are totally screwed. Too many selfish morons who can't do the bare minimum.
The problem with Covid as an example is it wasn’t a massive (I didn’t say no before people gets upset) threat to people of good health or non-elderly. If something came through with a 5% or greater fatality rate for even healthy people, you can absolutely bet people would comply out of fear and self preservation. Most people simply saw the Covid data and decided, accurately, that it wasn’t a threat to them personally.
We only got lucky it didn't mutate into an even deadlier form than Delta in the 2nd year. We had the worst person possible in charge for something like covid. Now he's in again and his administration does not believe in public health until they're at death's door and using up resources.
and yet pretty much all of us, you included, had minor symptoms or a bad cold for a few days right? it was easily transmissible. but so what for nearly everybody?
Ahh ya I didn’t have minor symptoms if you are talking to me. I had COVID after effects for months (didn’t quite fit the definition of long covid but it sucked).
I mean COVID has been litigated for 6 years now so I wont rehash but it’s never about the 95% that have minor symptoms. It’s about the 5% that it can be fatal or ICU visits, COVID shows we do not have the healthcare capacity in the world to handle anything more than 1% fatality rate. So it goes back to if there is something worse than COVID meaning fatality rate in the 2-3% range it is societal game over. I know this isn’t a prepper sub haha but that is what the article is talking about so the comment is valid.
The bigger problem is our aging population we will be in an even worse demographic upside down pyramid over the next 25 years so demographics alone can push a COVID like virus into major economic damage.
The Global Preparedness Monitoring Board, established by the WHO and World Bank, saidin a report out Mondaythat the “real, near term risk of another pandemic” is that it “would strike a world more divided, more indebted and less able to protect its people than it was a decade ago.”
The world isn’t ready because they (world governments) sort of shot their load with Covid.
The public simply isn’t ready for any sort of measures that are made to slow down the spread. The “conspiratorial distrust” of the public, globally, is now far worse thanks to Covid. And a majority of humanity has zero trust in institutions or experts.
If the next “pandemic” happens anytime in the next 25 years, it’s going to significantly worse due to the resistance people everywhere will have to any measures designed to mitigate the spread.
People will utterly ignore distancing. People won’t get vaccines. People won’t wear masks. And this means a future pandemic would spread like wildfire and by the time people burst the bubble of skepticism, it would be too late.
The problem during Covid was that us regular Joes were doing all of the distancing. Shopping at night when the stores were empty. Not going out. Not seeing friends and family. And then week after week, another elected official was caught out eating in a fancy restaurant, or going here or there with no distancing or masks. It was the ultimate “let them eat cake” and slap in the face to every responsible person.
It’s an interesting point and leads one to ask, “What could’ve been done differently with Covid that would not have given rise to these results?”
Realistically, I don’t think anything. I think we’ve all been exposed to the raw limits of humanity. Faced with such a grave threat, humans, collectively, are not the limitless species our fancy phones and rocket ships would have you believe. I’m not really sure how to be more ready for the next threat.
I think about this for when the world changes in the future. If we couldn’t all collectively agree to stay inside and wear a mask when a easily commuted virus was killing thousands of people what are people going to do when they’re told we have to ration food/water, that they can’t have their 5 cars, etc.
Humans are just so selfish. Or maybe it’s just Americans but I can’t imagine telling some people what they can or can’t do
The problem is that the American government vs other countries played super loose with the rules with lots of grey area. Look at other countries that basically said “stay the fuck home, no travel”. Instead we had restaurants open with tables “spaced apart” and waiters who would barely wear their mask— what is that even going to do?
And this then breeds a lot of distrust in what the rules even are and if someone is or isn’t “breaking the rules”. Vs something that is far more cut and dry.
Expectations are resistant but they also move cumulatively over time in either direction. You cant tell someone they need to have half what they currently do by tomorrow, but you can whittle down what they expect out of life over the course of years.
Shut down anyone posting obviously malicious """advise"" (e.g. bleach enemas), and threaten to shutdown and service that didn't adjust their algorithms and programming.
Fox shouldn't have been allowed to spread skepticism about masks and distancing. Facebook should have been required to moderate their feeds to remove, or at least hide, content about horse dewormer being an ""effective treatment"" for COVID.
Remember, there was a ~3 week period after the spread really began when everyone was still on the same page. Then the troll farms got their marching orders, spun up their shit posts, and things took on a life of their own that is still going to this day.
Not having Trump spread bullshit every day to his sycophants for three years prior would’ve helped. That and red states not following guidelines and blue cities/states capitulating to people’s demands. Plus not paying people enough money to incentive staying home e like every other country
What could have been done differently? WHO could shared that airborne transmission was real, and the six feet distance indoors and hand washing were not going to work in a “fills a room like smoke” reality.
I think that despite all the conpiracy drivel spewed by certain media outlets, many people saw friends and family members die because of COVID. After going through the first pandemic, at least my family and social/professional circles are far more aware of the dangers of these diseases.
Sure, there are people who are deep into conspiracies and will ignore distancing and won't vaccinate, but as it happened with COVID, their ignorance ends up getting them killed. If they believe that's their "freedom", let them exercise it.
Viruses aren't into ideology or politics. The sensible people who follow precautions survive. The crazies who don't will get wiped out regardless of what their favorite conspiracy podcaster told them. Natural selection working as intended.
I agree with everything you said, and am one of those people. I have no trust in any institution left.
But I want to add on that I think it is impossible with today. We need to stop using square pegs in round holes and reimagine almost every law we have. When we made them, it was an impossible thought to jump on a plane and be anywhere within 24 hours.
When H1N1 and Ebola had hit the US during Obama's time, we never had to worry because we had a strong public health task force to track and prevent spread. But now we're seeing things like measles outbreaks after such a long time, Human to human spread of hantavirus less than 7 years after covid and now a return of ebola. It's not even more than a decade apart.
Trump has heavily divided and politicized the response to public health concerns and viruses. All of which has heavily promoted lies and misinformation about the spread and protection against diseases. It is all incredibly concerning.
A pandemic is never a matter of when, but how and the frequency of infectious zoonotic diseases is rising at a very fast rate. This stuff is real and not fantasy.
Ebola kills its host too quickly to become a global pandemic (at least right now). COVID was particularly dire because it was super contagious and didn't actually kill 98-99% of its hosts meaning it was easy to spread, but killed enough to overwhelm hospitals.
It takes way fewer Ebola cases to overwhelm healthcare facilities though. The resources required to contain and treat is crazy. The physicians still end up getting infected regularly
Exactly, If someone had read the article of what they had to do and wear just to care for that one nurse patient in Tx, people would understand why even a few cases is very very concerning.
It's not just wear a mask and you're fine. All the healthcare professional involved have to wear full on suits and follow very strict procedures and guidelines to make sure they don't get it. It's the kind of thing where an average person would think it looks "stupid" to wear something like that or too cautious to do so much, but it's all life saving procedures.
Can’t wait for the right wing algos to recommend having Ebola parties to achieve natural immunity…..
The CDC has been destroyed. The pandemic playbook was tossed aside before COVID because Obama had a middle name. This admin bashes the WHO and loves the ivermectin. The followers discount experts and love the shamanism of Kennedy who uses ai poorly and can’t form a rational coherent sentence around science.
We have not even addressed long covid and covid vaccine injuries, nor have we moved on from censorship surrounding those suffering from both conditions. So yea, we’re fucked.
I certainly worry due to the conspiracy theorists, but I still think the CDC and WHO hold some blame for the skepticism.
It started at two weeks. Don't buy masks. Okay, now it's a month. Buy masks. Now two months. Now 6. Now the end of the year. Maybe another year. The most damaging was, "get the vaccine and we'll go back to normal. Nevermind, we're not going back to normal." That was when many people said to hell with it, I'm going back to normal.
They needed to have clear and unified guidance. The CDC did not during covid and looked like a bunch of buffoons because of it. The general populace will not accept another lockdown.
WHO can shut the f up. Nobody cares. They bungled the pandemic so bad that nobody will listen to them again, not should anyone listen. They used the pandemic to take away rights, to transfer wealth, to exemplify the phrase "never let a crisis go to waste".
Agreed. If only they didn’t change their minds on protocol constantly we wouldn’t have this massive state of distrust. I don’t like orange man but the WHO is corrupt too. I don’t care what they say or what anyone else says.
CyberSmith31337 | 2 hours ago
I’m just not sure what can be said about this.
We have an incompetent government. We have an indignant and uneducated populace, and our country is on the verge of chaos.
Nothing any of us can do to stop whatever may yet come associated with this, and if it does actually become a pandemic, I doubt we even have the willpower to make additional sacrifices to prevent it from getting worse. You surely can’t count on the American health leadership (RFK) to be honest about how this goes.
I can’t imagine how bad everything would get if this becomes mainstream.
idontcarewhocares | an hour ago
BRING ON THE WORLD CUP!!!!!
Oh yah baby
Slfestmaccnt | an hour ago
Oh god... I forgot about that...
BehavioralSink | 26 minutes ago
Plague, Inc always had that Olympics superspreader event…
blk_sabbath | 18 minutes ago
Came here for this comment
steveycip | an hour ago
As someone who lives in NJ this terrifies me. But I’ll listen to our state leadership.
crazyoldwizard72 | 17 minutes ago
ARE YOU READY FOR SOME SOCCER?! /old joke
joeg26reddit | 54 minutes ago
ooh- I have seen this movie
but it was two girls and one cup
I think this time it will be messier
Cinq_A_Sept | 53 minutes ago
Read the Hot Zone. It’ll scare the shit out of you.
blk_sabbath | 13 minutes ago
Just got it thanks to you! reading now
Daawggshit | an hour ago
Yeah I mean you still have people who think masks don’t do anything and that Covid was a hoax/not a big deal. It’s like their whole personality
paul_h | 26 minutes ago
WHO’s Dr Maria Van Kerkhove mumbled about “close contact” again two weeks ago instead of detailing what airborne spread is. Long term it’s indoor air cleaning we need. My FFP2 use ensured I didn’t get COVID, but lord I wish governments would legislate clean indoor air and start fining building operators that are doing nothing!
Visible_Device7187 | 2 hours ago
This applies to nearly all government though. They all refused to make the rich pay for the poor being out of work to control the spread
Churchbushonk | an hour ago
It isn’t the Rich’s responsibility to pay. I swear guys, you guys act like the rich has the ability to bail everyone out of every issue.
What would you consider rich?
Visible_Device7187 | an hour ago
Billionaires and multi billion dollar companies and absolutely they do jave the ability and responsibility for the society they benefit greatly from
ProfessionalOil2014 | an hour ago
Then what are they for? If they serve no purpose then they can have their assets seized and be reduced to be the same as the rest of us.
They exist because society at large allows them too. Once they outlive that usefulness, or become a hindrance, it is time for them to be removed.
Deeingchicka | an hour ago
It’d be nice for them to return the favor for fucking once
SoulbreakerDHCC | an hour ago
It's not our responsibility to make them money or to pay them either
oldhellenyeller | 28 minutes ago
The nonsense that gets posted in the “economics” sub lmao
staebles | an hour ago
>Nothing any of us can do to stop whatever may yet come associated with this
We could all band together and create a massive general strike to take back our country... but no one wants to so I guess you're right.
Artistic-Cannibalism | an hour ago
I personally have no faith that this can be prevent.
My only hope is that we'll learn from this, don't even that hope is faint given how we somehow managed to unlearn lessons after covid.
Sufficient-Bid1279 | an hour ago
Your country is on the “verge” of chaos? It IS in chaos.
CyberSmith31337 | 47 minutes ago
If you think this is chaos, you have not experienced true chaos yet.
We’re experiencing tremendous inconvenience, hardship, and stress, sure. Chaos looks more like the LA Riots. We aren’t there (yet)
Sufficient-Bid1279 | 45 minutes ago
I am from Canada, it looks like Chaos to me but fair enough, you’re living in it so I can see what you are saying.
CyberSmith31337 | 41 minutes ago
The chaos is really in how terrible our media has become. It is absolutely breakneck and jarring.
You can wake up in the morning and be told we are at war, hear that we have a peace treaty by noon, and then find out we kidnapped another country’s leader by 4pm. By 8pm our leader is tweeting and posting about nuclear apocalypse on Truth Social.
Life itself has barely changed at all; but the news cycle has become absolute madness over here because we no longer have a free press and all critics and media outlets are being censored and gobbled up the the oligarchs. That part sucks ass.
netanator | 33 minutes ago
We invade more countries by 8am than most countries do by noon.
New motto, probably. /s
CyberSmith31337 | 30 minutes ago
We do so bigly, better than anyone else ever has, more spectacularly than anyone ever will. We’re the best at it; everyone tells me so.
/s
Fruitypuff | an hour ago
This sounds like Covid all over again 😂
tmotytmoty | an hour ago
What a great excuse to cancel all elections
CyberSmith31337 | an hour ago
It certainly seems like the GOP is setting up multiple streams of reasons why we can’t have elections.
A war, an energy crisis, a pandemic (being framed as 2x if you consider all the speculation about Hantavirus, despite all experts saying it is not a big deal) endless gerrymandering, etc.
If we we even get an election it seems like it is going to be manipulated heavily, but I could definitely see a wartime powers act being unleashed at the last minute.
ZAILOR37 | 58 minutes ago
Have you read the stand by Stephen king
CyberSmith31337 | 46 minutes ago
I haven’t but I am actually on episode 2 of the Gary Sinise version of the show!
TitanCweamy | an hour ago
said the WORLD not the US ffs yall think everything revolves around you guys
CyberSmith31337 | an hour ago
…who the FUCK do you normally speak for when you post? Do you normally comment on behalf of Ireland? Slovenia?
It is implied that, when you are speaking, you speak from the perspective of your country, where you live. If you can’t discern that, it means you are a stupid fool. Jesus Christ leave it to Reddit to get uppity for not including everyone else all the time.
So MY part of the world is the US, and that is what I was speaking to, since that apparently wasn’t discernible from my comment.
JoannaCuppa | 58 minutes ago
Not who you were replying to, and your point is absolutely fair, but "our government" doesn't identify which government.
Towards the end of your comment you discuss American healthcare, but you still don't say that's where you are from. It's hard to discern when there is no information to extrapolate from.
TitanCweamy | 56 minutes ago
dude is john reddit
JoannaCuppa | 48 minutes ago
The hostility in their answer was certainly something!
TitanCweamy | 45 minutes ago
most action i’ve had all week
JoannaCuppa | 32 minutes ago
😁
jrodshoots | 48 minutes ago
The easy way to fix this would be to stop thinking you're the center of the universe. Most other non-arrogant nations would have started your comment with:
>We have an incompetent government in the US/Ireland/Solvenia.
See how easy it is to not think the world revolves around you.
CyberSmith31337 | 43 minutes ago
Ho hum fuck off
TitanCweamy | 57 minutes ago
struck a nerve did I? relax go eat a cheese burger
tittysprinkles112 | 10 minutes ago
You sure type like an American.
TitanCweamy | 6 minutes ago
I know. it’s like maybe i went to an american high school
fryephillip | an hour ago
Maybe we deserve to die?
Old_Culture_3825 | an hour ago
Seems very unlikely, however. This is the challenge with things always being overhyped like this headline. People are numb to "this show storm/hurricane/heat/cold" will be some of the worst in history! Run to the grocery store now!" So often it ends up being noise. That's why we don't run out of a building when the fire alarm goes off (look at all the 9/11 stories from the towers where people didn't bolt right away in some cases). So here we are: Covid was going to kill us all. Until it didn't and it really was more dangerous for the elderly and obese and the rest of us just needed to hang out outside more. Instead we had kids arrested development due to the noise/paranoia/or teacher's simply wanting to get paid to stay home (depending on your viewpoint). So now here is a 'we are doomed' headline. Are we? Probably not. But if we are in trouble it will be worse than imagined, right? Because we think it is BS (likely is).
JoannaCuppa | an hour ago
One of the major reasons that COVID didn't kill us all was having lockdowns. With people at home, not only was it harder for COVID to spread, but things like car accidents reduced too. Which meant that hospitals had enough capacity to treat those unwell with COVID.
We will never know what the death toll would have been without lockdowns and the vaccines, but people stating that those interventions weren't necessary, because they achieved the desired effect, doesn't make sense to me.
Terrible_turtle_ | an hour ago
Even then, there were capacity issues. People did die because hospitals were full and they couldn't get treatments they otherwise would have gotten.
JoannaCuppa | an hour ago
Absolutely! That would have been so much worse without lockdowns mitigating the spread of COVID and day to day accidents.
VerilyShelly | 45 minutes ago
Humans are notoriously bad at objectively seeing cause and effect or understanding how actions and results relate, it seems. Isn't part of the reason why vaccine hesitancy is rising because generations have been vaccinated so successfully that people don't believe that those diseases are dangerous anymore?
JoannaCuppa | 30 minutes ago
Absolutely. It really boils down to both ignorance, and a massive belief that "doing your own research" makes a person as qualified to comment, as people who literally make this their life's work.
It absolutely baffles me that no one would want their neighbour to perform open heart surgery on them, but when it comes to other medical procedures, suddenly the public are just as qualified as professionals.
Edit: if people want to know which vaccines are statistically safer than the disease they are designed to mitigate against, look at what countries with universal healthcare do. To avoid having to raise taxes, the governments have a vested interest in keeping costs as low as possible, and the population as healthy as possible. So if there isn't a decent cost/benefit analysis, then mass vaccination campaigns won't happen.
havenyahon | an hour ago
COVID literally directly killed millions of people globally, including young and fit people, albeit in lower numbers, and it has led to many more deaths from post viral complications, not to mention millions suffering from long COVID and having their lives destroyed. You live in a fantasy world. It has and continues to cause enormous damage.
ecsilver | an hour ago
Oh ffs. The reason so many will push back now is because of how political and overreaching the last time was with all the disinformation and outright lies. I said it in 2020/21. The harder the overreaching was like the STUPID rules of shutting down churches or silencing any questioning of the origin of the virus, the worse it was going to be when the next one comes which will inevitably be worse. This should never have been political
VerilyShelly | 50 minutes ago
Stopping people from congregating to catch each other's infections and carrying them off to spread through their communities? How cruel and unfair! People should be free to be their own Typhoid Mary if they want to!
JoannaCuppa | an hour ago
Erm, it wasn't political in many countries, and certainly wasn't overreach?
Plenty of countries shut down churches, and the churches absolutely agreed with it. It was about not having loads of people in a room together, potentially breathing a virus on each other. Most sensible congregations absolutely agreed that it was necessary in order to protect the most vulnerable In society, and that that outweighed the short term rights of the individual to cough unmasked in church. Hence churches moving to zoom.
In many countries the general view was that it was better to have the population alive and able to bitch about the restrictions.
nonother | 8 minutes ago
Why are you talking about American health leadership in response to an articles in Forbes Australia?
CyberSmith31337 | 6 minutes ago
America is part of the world. The article is about the world not being ready. America is not ready for another pandemic. America is cited multiple times in the article.
Is it that hard to follow?
Namnagort | 2 hours ago
No one in the world could stop covid. You cannot have a society without contact. I understand your main idea. Its just not realistic.
CuriousCat511 | 2 hours ago
Many major countries had a covid death rate that was a fraction of the US. We absolutely could have done better.
Namnagort | 2 hours ago
And other countries had different variables like health, age, and habits.
notthesethings | 2 hours ago
And responses.
jimmib234 | 2 hours ago
And administration's who took it seriously, let the experts advise people, didnt suggest that we stop testing so that the numbers looked better........
gluedtothefloor | 2 hours ago
What utter hogwash. Nobody claimed completely stopping it was likely, but the right squelled and cried at even the most basic mitigation strategies. And they won, in the end. The next pandemic will be worse.
ConfidentIylncorrect | 2 hours ago
Except many countries did? Compare the COVID deaths of USA to Canada, their direct neighbor and most similar country and you'll see that a lot more lives could have been saved. Leadership plays a HUGE role.
caterham09 | 2 hours ago
Health also plays a role though. Over 40% of Americans are considered obese compared to under 30% of Canadians. We also know that covid had significantly more impact on the obese and elderly than it did on healthier individuals
Mysterious-Mole-2720 | an hour ago
Also probably related to leadership, over a longer time, probably decades prior to covid. Garbage food, poor Healthcare availability and lower birth rates related to income inequality set the US up to be more vulnerable.
mamadoedawn | an hour ago
Canada also has less population density and a smaller populous to "reign in" with policy- which certainly helps.
weary_dreamer | 2 hours ago
not realistic in certain places is just another tuesday in others. we dont have to be perfect to be better
Main-Company-5946 | 2 hours ago
Any disease can be stopped if you nip it in the bud early enough. It’s not unstoppable until it starts snowballing
FlatwormBig5514 | an hour ago
Look at how many excess deaths were caused by the incompetent administration.
heyhayyhay | an hour ago
The chimp who was "running" America made idiotic statements almost daily for months. Everything he said caused morons to fight against common sense measures. tRUMP is a psychopath and is directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths.
HurricaneCat5 | an hour ago
Honest?!?! Was the last administration or the CDC honest about the last pandemic? They are just gonna vilify the cure and rebrand it and sell it to you. Sound familiar?
CyberSmith31337 | an hour ago
The last administration didn’t leave the WHO; this one did.
HurricaneCat5 | 57 minutes ago
Brought to you by Pfizer..
ReadyPlayerOne007 | 2 hours ago
I assume you're referring to Russia. RFK has nothing to do with Russia. Check your facts.
Bman4k1 | 2 hours ago
The problem is COVID destroyed any hope of the world responding to a “game ender” pandemic, think Spanish flu and higher.
Also when I got COVID in the early days it really scared me how easily transmissible it was. If there is something like COVID but more deadly, game over.
Main-Company-5946 | 2 hours ago
The thing is the more deadly a disease is the less infectious it is. Morbidly it starts to kill off its hosts.
Edit: This only applies if the disease kills before spreading. There are diseases like HIV which tend to linger a long time before killing which gives much more time to spread.
Unfinishe_Masterpiec | 2 hours ago
Something like HIV, but airborne would be devastating. It was universally fatal before a treatment was found, yet you could have it and be spreading it for months.
IKillZombies4Cash | an hour ago
I always wondered how close mosquitoes are to spreading HIV. I think I’ll research that now
Shotgun_Mosquito | an hour ago
The Virus is Digested: Unlike malaria or dengue fever, HIV does not survive or replicate within a mosquito. The virus is treated as food and is broken down in the insect's digestive system within one to two days.
Two-Tube System: Mosquitoes do not inject blood from a previous host into a new victim. They utilize a two-tubed proboscis: one tube injects saliva to act as an anesthetic and lubricant, while the other draws blood.
No Viral Load: Even if a mosquito were to retain a microscopic amount of HIV-infected blood on its mouthparts, the amount of virus is far too low to transmit an infection.
https://www.aidsmap.com/about-hiv/faq/can-mosquitoes-transmit-hiv
WhenImTryingToHide | an hour ago
Reddit good stuff right here.
unperson | an hour ago
Username checks out.
mmm1441 | 26 minutes ago
Yet they transmit malaria. Is that with the first tube injection?
Shotgun_Mosquito | 13 minutes ago
Yes because what happens is :
The mosquito bites an infected person, and the blood containing the parasites goes to the gut.
The parasites then make whoopie inside the gut, and then make sporozoites( about 1-2 weeks )
These sporozoites migrate to the salivary glands of the mosquito and then get injected into a person when the mosquito bites
Purdue123456 | an hour ago
Covid’s on the low end of a golden window of mass casualties, 0.5-5% is the problem area, Covid was 0.5-1% or so.
TehFuckDoIKnow | 2 hours ago
Dangerous oversimplification. You could be infected with a hypothetical asymptomatic and contagious pathogen for a decade and it’s has 100% mortality in 11 years. In the first ten years it spreads to every soul and then everyone dies.
caterham09 | 2 hours ago
I don't think real life works like the flash game pandemic though
Main-Company-5946 | an hour ago
It usually doesn’t work like this though
hornswoggled111 | 2 hours ago
Eventually. But before it gets there or can do a significant rebalance of a population.
onlyreplyifemployed | 2 hours ago
So far
caterham09 | 2 hours ago
If there was actually some bubonic plague level disease going around, I guarantee people would begin to take it seriously eventually. It would be tremendously damaging, but people dropping dead at a rate like that would be eye opening. Besides it's self selecting at that point. If it's truly deadly and contagious, anyone who's not trying to protect themselves is just going to die off, leaving only the people making an attempt
Bman4k1 | an hour ago
I mean I’m not sure about that. There is going to be a huge section of the population that is like “people are freaking out just like COVID and looked what happened”, there will be enough of those that spread to the innocent. Combine that with employers and government that will be less forgiving about people that WANT to shelter in place and you have a recipe for disaster. Also I think the front like employees (poor people) will be put in the line of fire to “keep the economy going”. I think people are underestimating how much damage COVID did to society’s sense of community.
aw-un | an hour ago
HIV would like to have a word
Main-Company-5946 | an hour ago
There is a confabulating factor which is how quickly it kills you. But the current hantavirus tends to kill before it spreads
mistressbitcoin | 59 minutes ago
Yeah.. the bad thing about general rules of thumb is that in this case there are absolutely edge cases that dont fit it.
AI could probably already find a way to merge covid with something much more deadly (in a lab), and there are evil people in the world who would absolutely make it.
HorrorSmile3088 | 2 hours ago
I keep thinking about that movie Contagion. If we have a virus that is that deadly (much worse than COVID) we are totally screwed. Too many selfish morons who can't do the bare minimum.
LoudHorse25 | 51 minutes ago
The problem with Covid as an example is it wasn’t a massive (I didn’t say no before people gets upset) threat to people of good health or non-elderly. If something came through with a 5% or greater fatality rate for even healthy people, you can absolutely bet people would comply out of fear and self preservation. Most people simply saw the Covid data and decided, accurately, that it wasn’t a threat to them personally.
content_enjoy3r | 27 minutes ago
And they were more than happy to spread it to those to whom it was a threat, which is why over a million people died from it in the US.
Nick_Gio | 3 minutes ago
And in that million how many were older than 65 years old?
_Arlotte_ | an hour ago
We only got lucky it didn't mutate into an even deadlier form than Delta in the 2nd year. We had the worst person possible in charge for something like covid. Now he's in again and his administration does not believe in public health until they're at death's door and using up resources.
Old_Culture_3825 | an hour ago
and yet pretty much all of us, you included, had minor symptoms or a bad cold for a few days right? it was easily transmissible. but so what for nearly everybody?
Cheap-Discussion-186 | an hour ago
It wasn't a world ending disease but 10+ million people died. It wasn't just a cold.
Bman4k1 | 59 minutes ago
Ahh ya I didn’t have minor symptoms if you are talking to me. I had COVID after effects for months (didn’t quite fit the definition of long covid but it sucked).
I mean COVID has been litigated for 6 years now so I wont rehash but it’s never about the 95% that have minor symptoms. It’s about the 5% that it can be fatal or ICU visits, COVID shows we do not have the healthcare capacity in the world to handle anything more than 1% fatality rate. So it goes back to if there is something worse than COVID meaning fatality rate in the 2-3% range it is societal game over. I know this isn’t a prepper sub haha but that is what the article is talking about so the comment is valid.
The bigger problem is our aging population we will be in an even worse demographic upside down pyramid over the next 25 years so demographics alone can push a COVID like virus into major economic damage.
[OP] InterestingCat308 | 2 hours ago
The Global Preparedness Monitoring Board, established by the WHO and World Bank, said in a report out Monday that the “real, near term risk of another pandemic” is that it “would strike a world more divided, more indebted and less able to protect its people than it was a decade ago.”
ThunderousOrgasm | 2 hours ago
The world isn’t ready because they (world governments) sort of shot their load with Covid.
The public simply isn’t ready for any sort of measures that are made to slow down the spread. The “conspiratorial distrust” of the public, globally, is now far worse thanks to Covid. And a majority of humanity has zero trust in institutions or experts.
If the next “pandemic” happens anytime in the next 25 years, it’s going to significantly worse due to the resistance people everywhere will have to any measures designed to mitigate the spread.
People will utterly ignore distancing. People won’t get vaccines. People won’t wear masks. And this means a future pandemic would spread like wildfire and by the time people burst the bubble of skepticism, it would be too late.
juice06870 | an hour ago
The problem during Covid was that us regular Joes were doing all of the distancing. Shopping at night when the stores were empty. Not going out. Not seeing friends and family. And then week after week, another elected official was caught out eating in a fancy restaurant, or going here or there with no distancing or masks. It was the ultimate “let them eat cake” and slap in the face to every responsible person.
Atlas809 | an hour ago
Agree with this big time. We were playing by different rules entirely.
mmm1441 | 24 minutes ago
Ask Herman Cain how that worked out.
BreeezyP | an hour ago
It’s an interesting point and leads one to ask, “What could’ve been done differently with Covid that would not have given rise to these results?”
Realistically, I don’t think anything. I think we’ve all been exposed to the raw limits of humanity. Faced with such a grave threat, humans, collectively, are not the limitless species our fancy phones and rocket ships would have you believe. I’m not really sure how to be more ready for the next threat.
Daawggshit | an hour ago
I think about this for when the world changes in the future. If we couldn’t all collectively agree to stay inside and wear a mask when a easily commuted virus was killing thousands of people what are people going to do when they’re told we have to ration food/water, that they can’t have their 5 cars, etc.
Humans are just so selfish. Or maybe it’s just Americans but I can’t imagine telling some people what they can or can’t do
ScoffersGonnaScoff | an hour ago
Propaganda works. It was called a hoax by trump, the media followed.
Can't wait for the right wing algos to recommend having Ebola parties to achieve natural immunity.....
plainbread11 | 51 minutes ago
The problem is that the American government vs other countries played super loose with the rules with lots of grey area. Look at other countries that basically said “stay the fuck home, no travel”. Instead we had restaurants open with tables “spaced apart” and waiters who would barely wear their mask— what is that even going to do?
And this then breeds a lot of distrust in what the rules even are and if someone is or isn’t “breaking the rules”. Vs something that is far more cut and dry.
Bman4k1 | 57 minutes ago
I mean this is why prepper subs exist. The issue is exactly what you said. Humans have a limit until they go “this sucks too much for me, whatever”
FearLeadsToAnger | 48 minutes ago
Expectations are resistant but they also move cumulatively over time in either direction. You cant tell someone they need to have half what they currently do by tomorrow, but you can whittle down what they expect out of life over the course of years.
McFlyParadox | 48 minutes ago
What could have been done differently?
Shut down anyone posting obviously malicious """advise"" (e.g. bleach enemas), and threaten to shutdown and service that didn't adjust their algorithms and programming.
Fox shouldn't have been allowed to spread skepticism about masks and distancing. Facebook should have been required to moderate their feeds to remove, or at least hide, content about horse dewormer being an ""effective treatment"" for COVID.
Remember, there was a ~3 week period after the spread really began when everyone was still on the same page. Then the troll farms got their marching orders, spun up their shit posts, and things took on a life of their own that is still going to this day.
the-mighty-kira | 40 minutes ago
At the time, probably not much based on any number of factors. That said, knowing what we know now we could do several things:
BlackJediSword | 29 minutes ago
Not having Trump spread bullshit every day to his sycophants for three years prior would’ve helped. That and red states not following guidelines and blue cities/states capitulating to people’s demands. Plus not paying people enough money to incentive staying home e like every other country
paul_h | 17 minutes ago
What could have been done differently? WHO could shared that airborne transmission was real, and the six feet distance indoors and hand washing were not going to work in a “fills a room like smoke” reality.
Nisiom | an hour ago
I think that despite all the conpiracy drivel spewed by certain media outlets, many people saw friends and family members die because of COVID. After going through the first pandemic, at least my family and social/professional circles are far more aware of the dangers of these diseases.
Sure, there are people who are deep into conspiracies and will ignore distancing and won't vaccinate, but as it happened with COVID, their ignorance ends up getting them killed. If they believe that's their "freedom", let them exercise it.
Viruses aren't into ideology or politics. The sensible people who follow precautions survive. The crazies who don't will get wiped out regardless of what their favorite conspiracy podcaster told them. Natural selection working as intended.
dazedoveryou | 11 minutes ago
This is a very American perspective
BDRohr | an hour ago
I agree with everything you said, and am one of those people. I have no trust in any institution left.
But I want to add on that I think it is impossible with today. We need to stop using square pegs in round holes and reimagine almost every law we have. When we made them, it was an impossible thought to jump on a plane and be anywhere within 24 hours.
_Arlotte_ | an hour ago
When H1N1 and Ebola had hit the US during Obama's time, we never had to worry because we had a strong public health task force to track and prevent spread. But now we're seeing things like measles outbreaks after such a long time, Human to human spread of hantavirus less than 7 years after covid and now a return of ebola. It's not even more than a decade apart.
Trump has heavily divided and politicized the response to public health concerns and viruses. All of which has heavily promoted lies and misinformation about the spread and protection against diseases. It is all incredibly concerning.
A pandemic is never a matter of when, but how and the frequency of infectious zoonotic diseases is rising at a very fast rate. This stuff is real and not fantasy.
Greedy_Anteater_4568 | an hour ago
Ebola kills its host too quickly to become a global pandemic (at least right now). COVID was particularly dire because it was super contagious and didn't actually kill 98-99% of its hosts meaning it was easy to spread, but killed enough to overwhelm hospitals.
shepherdofthesheeple | an hour ago
It takes way fewer Ebola cases to overwhelm healthcare facilities though. The resources required to contain and treat is crazy. The physicians still end up getting infected regularly
_Arlotte_ | 32 minutes ago
Exactly, If someone had read the article of what they had to do and wear just to care for that one nurse patient in Tx, people would understand why even a few cases is very very concerning.
It's not just wear a mask and you're fine. All the healthcare professional involved have to wear full on suits and follow very strict procedures and guidelines to make sure they don't get it. It's the kind of thing where an average person would think it looks "stupid" to wear something like that or too cautious to do so much, but it's all life saving procedures.
Comet7777 | an hour ago
Totally agree with this. But imagine Ebola heading to the World Cup in say, New York.
ScoffersGonnaScoff | an hour ago
Can’t wait for the right wing algos to recommend having Ebola parties to achieve natural immunity…..
The CDC has been destroyed. The pandemic playbook was tossed aside before COVID because Obama had a middle name. This admin bashes the WHO and loves the ivermectin. The followers discount experts and love the shamanism of Kennedy who uses ai poorly and can’t form a rational coherent sentence around science.
Jokul_Wolf | 41 minutes ago
Can’t wait for the right wing algos to recommend having Ebola parties to achieve natural immunity…..
That's one way to reach peak Darwinism.
Outie_Fact_Checker | an hour ago
We have not even addressed long covid and covid vaccine injuries, nor have we moved on from censorship surrounding those suffering from both conditions. So yea, we’re fucked.
CaspinLange | 20 minutes ago
The Asian countries seem to fair well because they actually care about each other and think and act communally.
It’s the white supremacy nations I worry about the most, with all the ignorant self-centered MAGA types.
nywse | an hour ago
We're rarely ready for lab leaks whether it's Ebola in Reston or Covid in experiments coordinated between two very large and important countries.
MarathonHampster | an hour ago
Okay
vicsass | 47 minutes ago
Stfuuuuu
tittysprinkles112 | 11 minutes ago
I certainly worry due to the conspiracy theorists, but I still think the CDC and WHO hold some blame for the skepticism.
It started at two weeks. Don't buy masks. Okay, now it's a month. Buy masks. Now two months. Now 6. Now the end of the year. Maybe another year. The most damaging was, "get the vaccine and we'll go back to normal. Nevermind, we're not going back to normal." That was when many people said to hell with it, I'm going back to normal.
They needed to have clear and unified guidance. The CDC did not during covid and looked like a bunch of buffoons because of it. The general populace will not accept another lockdown.
Any-Tennis4658 | an hour ago
WHO can shut the f up. Nobody cares. They bungled the pandemic so bad that nobody will listen to them again, not should anyone listen. They used the pandemic to take away rights, to transfer wealth, to exemplify the phrase "never let a crisis go to waste".
SenseMotor5435 | 53 minutes ago
Agreed. If only they didn’t change their minds on protocol constantly we wouldn’t have this massive state of distrust. I don’t like orange man but the WHO is corrupt too. I don’t care what they say or what anyone else says.
Fl45hb4c | 42 minutes ago
Sounds a whole lot like burying your head in the sand.