OP: I've wanted to be an EMT for a long time, but I made excuses for years. I wanted to share some of them with y'all; maybe they resonate with you, or inspire you to do something you've been putting off.
Hey this is awesome! I’ve also always wanted to do EMT work but gravitated more toward software in college. I really related to all these reasons. Especially the feeling coming up more when I’m dissatisfied with work. The main reason I delayed was because if I’m going to do it, I want to be a good care provider and it seems really hard to keep the skills sharp if it’s just volunteer part time. How do you balance keeping the skills sharp while working another job full time?
Also, I’m 38, so I tend to feel too old. But I just started a part time program at a community college. Worst case I just learn some interesting skills.
Anyway, thanks for writing it. It’s good know I’m not just crazy wanting to do part time EMT work and keep my software career. I kind of feel like an idiot sometimes when other people ask me why I’m doing it.
You've got it exactly- learn a skill and why not? I'm a VC and founder and I also just passed my NREMT last month. Am I going to work as an EMT? No. But I'm proud of the skills.
Like OP and others, it would be great if there were better volunteer opportunities in big cities. Lmk if you want to start something.
> It’s good know I’m not just crazy wanting to do part time EMT work and keep my software career.
Not OP, but there are dozens of us. If you might be interested in things like ski-patrol or guiding.. there's loads of related NOLS certificates besides WEMT / WFR for things like avalanche, cold-water rescue, high-angle rescue. It differs by location, but something like EMTB cert often requires a "intern" type of deal with ride-alongs and intubation IIRC, which may or may not be scary, but just the schedule of it can be harder for people with another career. Meanwhile your friendly local search and rescue may need help, and many of the more casual certs are very helpful, and knowing some of this stuff is just good civics.
Joining your local search and rescue/ mountain rescue/dive team/etc. Is an amazing way to have fun, learn. Lots of specialized skills, go places few others do, and help out your community.
Generally first aid/ CPR is the basic medical requirement, but they will teach you that. EMT or higher is absolutely useful though.
> How do you balance keeping the skills sharp while working another job full time?
I don't! I've been volunteering with my current service for ~2yrs, and I still don't feel like a very "smart" EMT. It's coming, but slowly. And I'm trying to do more shifts (e.g. every week).
I simply try to "manage" my stupidity. I usually ride with a more experienced EMT, and any very-big calls will get a medic; I focus on learning & asking questions when it's appropriate; I try to drill _something_ every shift. If I really wanted to learn quickly, I'd take a few weeks off and run with AMR in a city... that definitely gets the calls.
> Also, I’m 38, so I tend to feel too old.
That's one of the biggest reasons I delayed. I felt too old at 29 & worried I would be out of place. FWIW, I think the class after us had an average age of ~35, so you might fit in more than you expect.
I resonate with wanting to be good, though. I think about it every time I get a call. My counterargument is (a) that 1 month of training is 1 month more than most folks have, and (b) in an emergency, you're always part of a team.
My dad liked to tell me about cadaver college because I gag at the thought or sight of gore and that's kept me working on trees, cars and computers and not humans
To be fair, some of the stories he told me are horrific enough not to share, and its amazing that those weren't the issues that made him leave. They certainly could have had a cumulative effect.
There was one "gallows humor" story of an obviously fatal bicycle accident. As paramedics, they could not declare the victim dead. They had to have authorization from the hospital.
The hospital insisted they send the EKG data back.
They said "Ok", and rather than going through the effort of connecting up the victim, they just stuck the leads to the truck and said "here it comes".
Then they got the OK to declare there at the scene.
I probably misunderstood the context. Both checking life signs on, say, a headless body or imitating the check for the sake of bureaucracy sound equally terrible :(
If it helps, in a lot of place "injuries incomparable with life" are sufficient to cease care on a patient.
Still (and this is a general opinion unrelated to any judgement about the OP's story, which I don't hold any opinion on), finding a pulse can be hard for a lot of folks in a lot of situations.
I'm pretty okay with, say, 20-year-old EMT-Bs needing a bit more bureaucracy before they declare me dead. It takes about 90 seconds to place a 4-lead, no shade on those kiddos.
One I'll call John. He was a fantastic medic. Calm and reassuring in the toughest situations, and he was a great teacher of new EMTs. He had seen everything. Farming accidents (they're terrible), DRTs, MVAs, MCIs, child abuse. The works. Handled it all professionally.
One day John and his partner get this nothing call. Kid fell off his bike and scraped his knee. John's partner puts a bandaid on the kid, looks around and John is gone. They find John sitting on a curb a block away bawling his eyes out. That kid with the skinned knee was John's breaking point. He was done.
This is just a danger in the medical profession, but especially for first responder or trauma focused parts.
My BIL is a pretty highly credentialed RN. He was seriously considering quitting a few years ago and was asking me about software dev or IT as a career path. I didn't ask for any stories as that would be disrespectful & insensitive, but he was working in the NICU (intensive care unit for infants) and had transferred in from the ICU.
Medicine is clearly his calling, but even as an outsider I can understand how emotionally draining it would be to have to struggle (and sometimes lose) to save children's lives and then go home to your young family. It's tough to see death and suffering daily, and this is a big struggle for these parts of the medical field.
My BIL ended up transferring to a specialist organ transplant unit. He continues to apply his trauma experience, but doesn't need to see quite as much trauma and death on a daily basis.
Suicide & self-harm/addiction issues are higher, and it's not uncommon at all for people to need to leave the field after a traumatic event. If you aren't in the field or don't know anyone who is, it's easy to gloss over how soul-wrenchingly difficult it is to deal with having to be calm and professional to help people going through trauma. Some of the stuff these folks need to deal with is truly horrific, and it's no wonder that PTSD is fairly common.
Also not surprising that EMS has a bit of a fratty/military culture. The job demands high periods of physical exertion and exposure to stressful and traumatic experiences. I'm glad there are people who do this work, but I very much understand why it is difficult.
This is where the volunteer EMT system of my rural hometown is superior to city EMTs.
Effectively people are on call. A radio is passed around amongst the volunteers and it's pretty open (most of my family have been EMTs at one point, and for decades).
Because it's rural, there's not a whole lot of cases needing EMTs, but they do occur. And because there's a rotating schedule and it's not anyone's full time job, it's really easy to say "not to day" or "I need a month".
I don't know how you can translate this into professional EMTs for a city. The best I got is hiring more EMTs and offering more flexible and lenient time off.
As with many jobs, more people should probably be doing it, less. Everyone's an EMT, everyone's a cashier, everyone flips burgers, everyone teaches, everyone keeps the servers running - at least, for a little while.
Also solves a lot of problems with (long-term) unemployment.
It also helps a bit with a lot of other issues with labor. I'm taking a break from using a backhoe to finish installing my cistern, and running that equipment for a couple of days has been fun and easy. Since the rental co is coming to pick up the machine soon I am okay pushing my body a little bit to get the work done.
I think after a couple of weeks I'd probably get pretty good at it, but between the pay and the repetition that work would be pretty annoying and if I had to do this much work every day plus overtime I think it might put the hurt on me. But once a month, that's interesting. It's just really hard to find folks who don't want all my waking hours once I agree to do a little bit of work for them.
I think this is often where the black humor tend to come into play. But black humor and political correctness are like oil and water, so I imagine it creates an extremely uncomfortable work environment for some people on both sides. Somebody who's PC is probably going to find everybody else beastial, and somebody who's not is probably going to be terrified of the PC types going to HR, social media, or whatever else. This nuance immediately came to mind when this article described the EMTs as fratty, which is probably exactly how this might seem to an outsider who doesn't understand how people can cope with being around extremely depressing scenarios constantly.
I have family in medicine and there were just endless stories that would have had social media in a frenzy if anybody ever shared them. At some point you have to laugh or cry, and one is way more sustainable than the other.
Wow dismissive... it is true but seems like some outsider doesn't understand the experience and what it takes to hang with them.
I have trouble dealing with EMTs and firefighters. They come off as officious and pushy. They are there to do a thing and duty calls them, and I usually represent a waste of time and effort for them. Yet, they saved my building when someone set fire to it 6.5 years ago. Yes, two weeks into the pandemic lockdown, I was nearly displaced by a huge fire. Officious and pushy tough guys/gals made sure I still had a place to live, and they even kept my electricity on.
Last Tuesday I visited the Police Museum, and I owe another visit to the Hall of Flame firefighting museum. I'm really trying to cultivate a respect for first responders, because they are in my family and in my community.
What first responders really face every day is hostile war-zones in an urban jungle. They go into places where people hate ICE, where assholes are filming and recording and Facebooking them; they go into places where people would rather start fires and put lead into bodies than take them out. They deal with victims who are combative and families who are uncooperative. They deal with uncertainty and chaos and every possible obstacle in their way. Literally, because I was riding a Waymo two weeks ago when it was the only vehicle on a 6-lane stroad to pull over and stop for lights & sirens screaming past! (It also pulled the same stunt for a school bus with flashing lights.)
If you've seen/read The Hunger Games through its conclusion, you may get the journey of Prim after her mother, and how the cruelty of life claimed her as a victim in the end, after all that Katniss had tried to do. Primrose Everdeen is the quintessential paramedic whose mind, family and very life is ruined by her compassionate, merciful vocation.
Sorry to say but that part about the waymo being the only car pulling over is the embodiment of "f*ck you, I got mine". I could never live in a society like that. Germany has many issues (or at least, its adversaries like to portray it as such), but the moment traffic stops on the Autobahn, cars split into forming a corridor immediately. And yes, the fact German society is, broadly speaking, very considerate of others, makes it a better place to live there, overall, despite lower income.
Neither can I live in a society like this, but currently it is more difficult to die than live, thanks to f*cking EMTs and hospitals...
Seriously though, there seem to be many considerate people out in traffic, and oftentimes I am the rudest one on the road, for whatever reason. I do not drive, but I find that queueing up and boarding the bus all the time, that people are generally real polite one-on-one, but also extraordinarily inconsiderate to the collective, insofar as flouting rules and breaching etiquette in crazy ways all the time. And the same goes for my neighbors around here, who seem to go out of their way to irritate others, and oftentimes I snap.
Perhaps it is an artifact or side-effect of DEI, multiculturalism, melting-pot mentality, in the big city, that really there is no common culture or common manners to any of us, and mostly people are out for their own interests. It is extremely common in American cities for road-rage escalations to violence and death. Surely the news outlets cannot even report the accidents and fatalities from people simply losing their temper whilst operating motor vehicles. And we're back to the EMT grind.
I believe that a lot of people accused of xenophobia, or hating immigrants, are actually frustrated by a loss of culture, or a dilution, and the inexorable pressure to cope with increasing diversity of cultures around us, which is simply inhuman and unworkable, IMHO. You can't solve it by mass-deporting or any human strategy. But people who share heritage and share common values are more likely to get along daily, than a crucible of ethnicities, tribes, and subcultures, that are all asserting their supremacy or dominance over one another.
It doesn't even have to be one thing, can just be the combined weight. As easily "compassion fatigue" as a big call.
I always thought it odd that people asked what the worst calls I've been on were - like "tell me about an unpleasant experience". But the thing that most people don't consider is that they assume it will be a gnarly trauma call. TBH, for me anyway, when it comes down to it, we're just blood and tissue, and in some ways you can, and have to, just 'disconnect' from that.
The worst calls are the emotionally damaging ones: SA/CSA, elder abuse, domestic violence, tragic accidents, the like. Those add up.
A department in my County has two fulltime therapists on staff.
Going on a slight tangent, I wanted to do the same thing but with firefighting instead. One thing I've found is that a good portion of your time is supposedly spent doing fundraisers
OP: +1. If you want to do fire, you should be aware most calls are medical.
Even though where I live a lot of firefighters are just EMRs... the fire services are a lot more willing to take you if you already have your EMT (since you're not gonna abuse the program to get free EMT training).
EMT really is the fastest way to become any first responder.
If you're in a small enough rural enough volunteer fire department, fundraisers are fairly rare. And also no medical training needed (or even firefighter training for that matter!)
How about: raging PTSD? A former buddy of mine had that like crazy, and apparently it's rampant in the profession (of course it is!).
Also, they (BC Ambulance) treat you like garbage when you need assistance, and effectively force you back to work or to go find a job elsewhere.
It's shocking how badly we treat the people that willingly take on life's hardest challenges (for low pay, I might add). It's amazing any are even left after all that BS.
What I'm implying is that in a profession with high PTSD rates, the culture of "get back in the saddle" peer pressure is probably generally better than, say, a typical "detached professionalism" or even a "self-care" oriented culture.
Yes. Generally speaking, but we’re individuals not populations.
Unfortunately that was not the case here, and his untreated PTSD left him very vulnerable to the effects of additional traumatic (work) experiences. He really needed a career change, but kept getting pushed back into service. With little in the way of effective treatment, it was hard to watch him being treated like that.
We already have a machine that can do CPR very well. What we don't yet have is a robot that can enter an unfamiliar environment and safely extract a patient who may have other injuries or be entrapped.
There has to be a toll seeing people suffer probably one of the lowest points of their lives, seeing kids die, seeing brutality like that where an EMT is warranted.
Yeah, I cannot imagine seeing people in pain and suffering and even dying on a regular basis. Nope nope nope. I mean, I am extremely grateful for the people who can handle that, but I'm not cut out for it.
I was certified as an EMT and spent some time volunteering in the ER, and while I did see some things that were somewhat traumatizing when I was young, I don't think I'm worse off because of them. Seeing someone my age die hurt. But it also made me appreciate the fragility of life a little more and turned me into a more careful driver (which was a good thing for 20 or so year old me). That said, it was only a day or two a week for a year or two, so much less exposure than someone full time gets. But I'm really glad I did it.
(But, y'know, this is a very ymmv kind of thing. I enjoyed cadaver lab and thought attending an autopsy was fascinating; other people had very different reactions, etc. no idea what causes us to differ there, but differ we do!)
I kind of did this in reverse lol. I was an EMT on private ambulance for 5 years, went to paramedic school, then dropped out and became a software engineer. Coming from the other side, I can definitely relate to the experience of delaying something you want to do for reasons that, in hindsight, were mostly irrational.
Being older and having recently passed the NREMT, it was interesting watching the young folks who were my FTOs for my clinicals- it seems like a really good "first job", even if the pay is pretty bad (or maybe because of the pay).
I was very impressed with those folks, younger than my own kids (who I am impressed with as well, of course).
For my own part I taught at a university during my 20s and then dropped out to work in software- changing life around has been very helpful. I can relate to doing something difficult for a while and then moving on when you've figured it out and see that it might not be the path to where you want to go. I hope it left you better for having the experience.
Yes, absolutely! I greatly value having come from a nontraditional background and recognize the diversity of thought and well roundedness that it's afforded me.
I agree with you that it’s a great job for anyone who can stomach it—especially early in their career.
Kind of like how people say everyone should work in the service industry at least once. I think caring for and serving others is messy work that forges a beautiful soul.
I like it when people are willing (and capable, writing-wise) to wear their hearts on their sleeve like that.
Also, I bet the whole blog post's worth would flash through the author's mind within all of 10 seconds whenever they were reminded of the possibility of taking the course. It takes both patience and self-discipline to put it all on paper like that.
Great blog post! Makes me want to take an EMT course :-)
This is a surprisingly interesting and relevant post to me that I decided to make an account to comment. I worked in IT and eventually as a programmer for 6 years, had a rough point in my life, and decided to take some time to reconsider my goals. I had always been interested in the medical field, and this was as good an opportunity as ever to do something new. I got my license and now am lucky to work 911 rescue in a larger city, both high call volume and high acuity (5 to 10 calls in 12 hours just on my truck).
Pros:
- Societal good: There are few who would argue Emergency Medical personnel do harm. Being able to visibly see your work improving people's lives and contributing directly to the public good is incredibly self gratifying.
- Handling emergencies: I am the one people call when things go wrong, in charge of patient care, managing scenes on the medical side.
- Problem solving: each situation is unique. Assessing situations, determining patient care, and actively working difficult scenes can be fun and helps fulfill my unmedicated ADHD needs.
- Handing out ambulance stickers to kids.
Cons:
- Smells
- Limited medical scope: I stop bleeding, give people oxygen, and get them to the hospital. I have very few medications, cannot intubate, and am not allowed to interpret an ECG. Paramedic is a 14 month program minimum that is a much larger time and money commitment, and even then, doctors are the ones that actually end up managing full patient care and make final decisions.
- Pay: I took a very large pay cut. I knew this would happen, and I was incredibly burnt out at my previous job, but the medical field, especially first responders, gets away with low pay and high hours because they often rely on passion and many new people entering the field at the lower levels.
Ultimately, I still have not figured out what I want to do long term. I could go back to programming, but with the current job market, that seems inadvisable. THe medical field will pretty much always guarantee some job. I do want to pivot (still have not completed college), but see above untreated ADHD along with a few other personal things I need to work on. Nursing has higher pay, but puts you underneath doctors such that you rarely make independent medical decisions. And paramedic/firefighter is nice, but hard on the body plus issues in the culture previously discussed.
For anyone considering it, I do recommend taking a class. You can do it in 4 months with a one day a week class (how I did it), and volunteer somewhere. But understand the tradeoffs and recognize that is far from glamorous most of the time.
When you respond to a medical call, you are entering an unknown area with someone who is sick or injured. You have body fluids, people who don’t have the best (or any) hygiene habits, homes and alleys that have never been cleaned, and much more. EMS job is literally to pick up the person who is shitting blood and dying, put them on your stretcher, and ride in the back of the ambulance with them to the hospital, while doing everything you can to keep them from dying.
EMS also has a bad cultural issue with PPE and cleaning. Masks are not standard for every call, and by the time you walk into a house and realize you need one, your gloves may already be dirty and you may already be busy with the patient. I am thinking about wearing an n95 mask to every single call, but most people just need someone to take them to the hospital and be a friendly ear while riding. To put on a mask in front of a patient may be taken as a rude gesture, and facial expressions are a large part of communication.
You can always take the mask off if you don't need it or facial expressions are necessary. Start with it on, assess the situation, and then choose. Much better than getting a face full of nasty and then wishing you'd had it on.
We did a med call where every water container object in the person's house (sinks, toilets, showers, bathtubs) had backed up with shit-filled septic water. In addition, the entire house stank of animal (and possibly) human urine.
Delightful. But you do it anyway, because that's the nature of the task.
I have a brother-in-law with a pretty textbook case of ADHD (and a more than a bit of combat related PTSD) who worked up through EMT/Paramedic to being a nurse to being basically top of the heap. He did cardiac surgery nurse for a while, then ran an ER, and these days he's doing contracts. Seems to me (as an observer) that the chaos he works with dovetails with 'effective' part of ADHD and he's very successful. Tangent: since you have some background in IT, you'll be able to handle Epic and the other EHR systems with little problem and you will be very popular amongst your coworkers.
As far as the job...things for entry/junior level in IT are frankly extremely bleak. I haven't seen an entry level job rec get approved in maybe a year. And I'm watching lots of my peers getting let go; it's a bad time to be old or young in IT. OTOH...not just my BiL but my wife is in health care, and whatever downside the job holds, 'no one is hiring' and 'they're laying off folks left and right' are absolutely not something they are worrying about.
And no matter what the downsides, no matter the lack of appreciation and compensation, you're actually helping people. That's better than most of us. Best of luck.
OP: thank you for making an account to comment :).
I'm certainly glad I have my good programming job right now. I'm not sure where the field is going, but it certainly ain't 2017 anymore. I will say: like the sibling comment mentioned, nursing (or PA?) can still be a very independent job, especially as an APRN or flight nurse. But I wish you luck!
Depends. Where I am, the nearest FD that takes volunteer EMTs requires 36 hours of shifts per month, an 8 hour Saturday training every month, and attending a department meeting at least every other month.
OP: my service requires 2 twelve-hour shifts a month + a monthly meeting. I had to complete a training packet before I could ride as a "full" EMT. Many services have stricter requirements; some require weekly shifts.
Maintaining the certificate also requires ~40hrs of continuing medical education every 2 yrs, which I accomplish via short 1hr courses every few weeks.
I obtained a BS in Aerospace Engineer in 1998. After job jumping several times I realized I didn't care for it. I was basically a "paper" engineer, which was my fault as I never pursued jobs that did "real" engineering.
Anyway, around 2003/2004 I went to night school for EMT. The purpose was to be a dive master on dive boats (I was/am a dive master - I don't dive anymore). It was fun.
My engineering job sucked so I jumped into paramedic school right after EMT. I really enjoyed it. About a month from graduating PM school, county fire department came in to class and said they would hire paramedic only but we would have to cross train to firefighter.
In Feb 2006 I was 35 yo with a 9 month old baby and decided if I didn't do it then I never would so I applied and got hired then department put me through fire school.
It was the best career decision of my life. It didn't take long to see a bunch of people get hurt from the job, so I figured I better have a back up plan since I also have chronic health issues. From 2010 to 2015 I did an online Masters degree in CS. After completing it I started working part time remote jobs as a developer.
Then COVID hit in 2020 and they pulled me out of the field due to my health issues. I turned 50 and was getting tired after 14 years. I started applying to full time jobs and landed one.
In 2022 I switched jobs again for a better org and I am still here. I just switched positions from Java dev to cloud engineer in May.
I absolutely enjoyed 85+% of FF/pm but it is a young person's game. It gave me confidence I probably never would have found. Again, it was literally the best career move I ever made and would recommend anyone to do it.
I'm midway through a similar journey - jumped from engineering to fire then into armed forces. At the back of my head I can always go back to the office, but the passage of time guarantees the reverse is much harder.
To anyone that has even thought of something more outside an office, try it so long as you're physically able. Compensation is one thing, but the experience for me has been priceless.
> Compensation is one thing, but the experience for me has been priceless.
Yep. When I got hired on at the fire department I took a $12,000 pay cut. Overtime was abundant so it was easy to make up the loss plus some. But you definitely can't purchase the experience
The firefighters in my small northwest Iowa town don't get paid at all, it's strictly volunteer. Same for our EMTs, which the county is having trouble finding volunteers for.
Back when I was hired in 2006 and going through fire school we were told 70% of the United States is volunteer.
Either due to the remoteness of rural living or just people in rural areas have more grit, the call volumes are much lower.
I live in Florida, but I am from a small rural town in MO and my mom still lives where I grew up. I was just there in August and I picked up a brochure for the county ambulance. They have 5 ambulances for the entire county and their call volume was approximately 3000 calls per year!
The county fire department I worked at has approximately 40 station and the busiest station doing 3000+ EMS calls on its own. Our department did all the 911 transports. When I left in 2020 we ran approximately 90,000 calls.
Is there anything that you learned through the FF/PM job that you find applying in your SE job? If I would have to guess, it's estimating outcomes quickly, people and expectation management?
The one thing I feel I can point is being able to talk to people either one on one or giving a presentation. Part of it could be getting older but I do feel like the FF/PM experience played a significant part in it.
What it did not translate to, for me, was working under pressure in IT. As a paramedic I had standard operating procedures / guidelines to guide me AND once we departed the scene I was usually no more than 30 minutes away from a doctor AND I didn't cause the problem to begin with AND once I gained confidence in my abilities I didn't get nervous as much or questioning myself. For the most part there is only so much you can do in an emergency situation in the field.
However, if something breaks in the IT world and I have management breathing down my neck (doesn't happen often) I worry that it was something I did, I don't know how to fix it, I'm not fixing it fast enough, blah, blah, blah. You would think non-life threatening IT-issues would not bother me but they do. Day to day office politics and team interaction doesn't bother me much though.
Another thing I feel like I got out of the FF/PM career is a get-it-done-figure-it-out-as-you-go. From the proverbial cat in the tree (never had that call) to a person having a heart attack, to person needs to be extricated from a vehicle, you can't just say "nope can't be done" or "I'm not doing it". I now see coworkers pushing back on stuff without even making an attempt. Try something, anything, but just don't say "nope can't do it". That is frustrating to me.
Jumping on this as one who was a ff/pm and officer and is a product manager: break things down into smaller and smaller problems, prioritize and resource manage. Show up at an MVA, it's a series of questions: how many patients do I have? how acute are they? what resources do I have coming or need? traffic control? tow? more patient transport? what do we need to make each hit a success point - do I need to take the door or roof off of this car to get the patient out? stabilize that vehicle to make it safe for us?
As you slice and dice, the problems become simpler, the answers easier, and the insurmountable chaos you showed up to becomes progressively more manageable.
We live about 2 hours away from great dive spots. At the time we, my wife and I, were diving our kids were small, so we had to find someone to watch them. By the time it was said and done and we picked up the kids, cleaned the gear, it was a long day. It just got to the point it wasn't worth it to us anymore.
I did something similar - was a SWE for years, then became an EMT, loved it far more than any CS work I'd ever done in my life. Continued on and went to medical school. The path is long but I've never once questioned whether I made the right decision.
If you're thinking about it - try it! An EMT class is pretty easy, fun, and doesn't take long.
I never realized that I was the type of guy who doesn't enjoy desk work until I became an EMT.
Yeah, fair question. To me "real" is crunching numbers, doing experiments, figuring stuff out, along the lines of what I did in my core college classes.
"Paper" is pushing paper, almost in the literal sense. It was just boring for me.
I would've expected a top reason to be the possibility of seeing mutilated bodies, dead babies and children, and other fun stuff like that. EMTs on this thread, how do you cope with that?
You fall back on your training. It's a powerful feeling knowing how to calmly make good decisions in the middle of something horrible.
Some will say you get used to it. I don't. I compartmentalize during and feel after. And we have an excellent CISD (critical incident stress debriefing) program for after-care where I work. I kind of think if you get so used to the horror that you cannot be empathetic, it's time to quit.
If you're interested in this field, consider remote work; wilderness, expeditions, offshore. Potentially much more interesting than city work and scope of practice around the world differs, so there is sometimes the opportunity to be more involved.
Have a look at the Award in Remote Emergency Medical Technician[1] from the College of Remote and Offshore Medicine. It's 75 hours of online study, then a 6 day course in their classroom in Malta (another 50 hours). Afterwards you'll hold a recognised European tertiary qualification, but you'll still have to sort out local registration.
The AREMT course is actually also the first module in their full BSc in Remote Paramedic Practice programme.[2]
I decided to become a (volunteer [0]) firefighter at 60 (software development background). It has been awesome.
Last year, I considered becoming an "EMR" (Emergency Medical Responder) - the lowest level of certification for emergency medical care that there is (basically, you can get vitals and stats from the patient if they are conscious). Because of timing considerations, I ended up not doing the course.
A year later, I see my 2 fellow firefighters who did become EMR's having to 20+ hours a year of mandatory continuing ed/training to their lives, and I'm pretty glad I ended up not doing that.
The firefighter part, given that we're a small, very not-busy volunteer rural fire district with an awesome district chief and culture, continues to be fantastic.
[0] thanks to the unions in my county fire department, volunteers are required to go through all the same certifications as career firefighters. We lack their level of experience (mostly) because we don't go on as many calls.
I went the other way. Small town ambulance station was chronically short of people to keep the truck staffed, and I figured I could spend some time. Did a year of ride-alongs, took the EMR course on my own dime, and after licensing, joined for part-time on-call. It was convenient for me at the time, where I could stay at home near the hall for my shifts, and then go if paged. They did eventually move to 12-hour fully paid shifts, which is better for retaining paid medics, but less convenient for some like myself. Those 12-hour shifts at the office were certainly less fun though. Did that for ~ 6 years.
Moved three provinces over, and joined the volunteer fire department, doing FF and medical first responder calls. Back to just carrying a pager wherever I go, but otherwise largely back on my own time. If I'm available, great! If not, well, it's volunteer. It sure helped get acquainted with our new community, and met an awesome bunch of folks. It'll be 12 years for me in 2027.
Yeah, my county is a so-called combination department: mixed career and volunteer stations. There are 4 career stations, fully staffed 24/7 365 days. Then there are another 10 or so volunteer stations where we're available if we're available.
Congrats on the 12 years - apparently 3 years is the average for volunteer FF's.
Oh nice, I think the city nearby uses a similar format. As for duration on volunteer depts, I wonder if the median value would be somewhat more useful as a measurement? Basically thinking that many people leave quickly, but the rest tend to stick around for quite a while.
If you're someone who offsets the typical HN vocation with outdoor recreation like hiking, cycling, climbing, mountaineering, etc., then consider the weeklong Wilderness First Responder (WFR) course. Much more practically useful than EMT for the majority of time where you don't have an ambulance handy, and you can scratch a similar itch as the author's by doing volunteer Search and Rescue work.
I'm almost 50 and retired from tech a couple of years ago. I passed the NREMT test a little while ago.
I think that I could not do healthcare professionally if I wasn't old and had a lot of free time- it would have been thin pickings when I had a wife and kids. And a lot of the folks I work with have some deep, deep trauma and moral injuries from how poorly US healthcare treats 90% of the population.
But EMT-B is some of the lowest standards for getting into a position where I can help folks. Compared to a lot of the professional knowledge I have recieved, it's not super expensive or time consuming... like, $3k all in (including travel and supplies) and about 6 weeks of intensive study.
I am still considering what to do with that (I spent all day putting a cistern into my weird off-grid setup, so it's not like I don't have other work to be doing)>. But I have spent a lot of time with newer/beginner rock climbers and guiding is one thing. I did several days of music festival first-aid, and that was excellent and interesting. I do work at a free clinic and that's been very rewarding.
But I feel like I will have to try and get at least a couple of months of IFT or (preferably) 911 truck work to become as proficient as I'd like to be so that's what I am trying to find at the moment. But I am curious how that will go and what I will find.
I knew a guy who was an EMT (or maybe a paramedic). He drank hard. Would give himself an IV to get over the hangover. He eventually enlisted to be a Marine medic. Absolute madlad.
I have a lot of respect for EMTs and I’m grateful for all of them, but the pay is (comparatively) low, the stress is high and you’re pretty much guaranteed to burnout.
I worked as an EMT for a few years. I didn't like the structure of the training. The education portions are insufficient, to say the least. I believe most EMTs/paramedics don't have enough education under their belts to perform the tasks they do. Most of these people learn from working on the job. You get a call, get the patient to the facility, then learn from it. I also didn't appreciate the "fake it till you make it" mantra that many people in EMS liked to repeat.
> If you’re not on an ambulance, it’s very hard to fulfill the NREMT’s continuing education requirements, so your certificate will quickly expire.
I think in the past, CEs had to be done in person, but after COVID they started allowing 100% online CEs. IIRC, certification is good for 2 years, so if you renew at the end of your cert period, you can immediately knock out your CEs for the next renewal period, you'll be set for a whole 4 years, and you only have to pay for a month subscription to one of the CE providers.
Oftentimes you can reach out to a fire department and ask if you can sit in. Or instructors like me can freelance do them for you. Further back in the day, a couple of instructors and I would have rodeos near the end of the year to get people caught up - the formula was generally one bottle of alcohol of choice per student per required CE block.
Also a graduate of NOLS WEMT, and it was one of the best-run educational experiences I've been through (Including Undergrad, Masters, professional development, etc).
Highly, highly recommend paying them a visit - truly a special organization, though I've neglected trying out one of their proper expeditions.
Lost a programming job in the dot com bust, couldn't land another one, eventually ended up in an EMT class and worked a series of traditional ambulance jobs and other health care positions since. Not really using it for anything but some volunteer stuff these days though.
From everything I hear about what programming jobs have become I don't really mind the career change, but man oh man do I miss the pay that comes with tech jobs.
Pretty cool write-up. Being an EMT is basically the polar opposite of being a software engineer, instead of dealing with computers and automated systems, you are dealing with people and everything is manual, "custom" workflow instead of automated. However it can still use the same debugging, engineering mentality we have. Good luck in whatever comes next to you.
After Covid I joined a volunteer fire and EMS company. They paid for my Fire 1&2, EMT, Instructor 1, and Officer 1. All nights and weekends only. EMT was like 4 months every other Saturday.
EMT was a challenging class because a few of us were competing for highest grade.
I don't do too many EMT calls these days, most of my volunteering is as a lieutenant on the fire side.
I'm very glad I did both, it's been fantastic for my chronic anxiety. I've seen some upsetting things but then I take a break for a bit to process it in therapy. There is a huge need for volunteer emergency response in the suburbs and farther out. If you are interested definitely check it out. If you find a station that's got too many assholes just find another one. Also the people I thought were the worst assholes turned out to just be a little prickly to newcomers and now we are always going out to dinner and renfaires and stuff. Heck my current year long TTRPG game is all folks from the station.
I am also a thru-hiker so I'm very interested in getting into wilderness search and rescue in the future.
I don't think I could ever do emergency response as a career, but I love volunteering. Nothing makes me more appreciative of getting to sign into work with a nice cup of tea and soothing music.
I was a volunteer EMT for a while — and didn’t take it further for some similar/some different reasons.
One recommendation, if you want to take the class but aren’t planning on doing it professionally (and have any interest in outdoor activities), take a Wilderness First Responder class. I found I learned a lot more in that class, and much it is practical in many circumstances, not just riding on an ambulance. It’s also a lot more fun, as you spend a lot of time running around in the woods learning to macguyver splints out of all kinds of stuff.
The other thing I found was that to really be good at it/feel confident treating anything beyond the most basic patients, you’re going to have to work on an ambulance full time in an urban setting. And in most places, to do that professionally, you’re going to have to become a paramedic.
the basic premise of wilderness classes is 'there is no 911, no one is coming for you' so the mentality is different. trying to stabilize the victim first and then to determine is they can self evacuate or you need to send out a rescue runner.
To all these commenters who are an EMT or similar first responder, just wanted to throw out a note of appreciation.
The moment you find yourself in a situation where you need a first responder, you gain a new level of respect for all they do.
Many volunteer departments will pay for you to get your EMT certification, which is about 160 hours and at the high school graduate level. It is basically "non-invasive" interventions, anything else requires paramedic which, between class time and ride time is around a 1,600 hour effort.
Compassion fatigue, depending on where you work or volunteer, is a real thing, and is ultimately the reason I retired after 14 years as a volunteer and part time EMT, paramedic, firefighter, instructor, state evaluator for new certification and continuing ed, and SEI (senior EMS instructor) accreditation, which is a state requirement to be able to oversee and sign off on the accreditation of new EMTs to the Department of Health (in my state your program needs to be certified by the DOH, and one of those requirements is oversight by an SEI who ultimately accepts responsibility for delivery of the curriculum and attestation of test documentation and results.
Culture can be a challenge, depending on where you are, yet around here there are regularly engine companies staffed by all women (who, sadly, regularly have to answer the question of whether their CPAT - candidate physical agility test - is the same as the men's. It is).
Private ambulance and in particular IFT (interfacility) can be a drain. And most companies in private EMS nickel and dime the shit out of everything, rigs that are 300,000 miles in, held together by hopes and dreams, high call volumes - the right partner on those shifts makes it a fist bumping "we're in this together", the wrong partner makes it a miserable "FML".
There is an aspect of EMT training that is "how not to kill your patient who is critically sick or injured before they get to definitive care", and there is a lot that is 2am "I fell going to the bathroom".
It is hell on your body. You are picking people up off the floor, working around them in cramped conditions that say "fuck ergonomics and lifting mechanics". My students stand around on a big concrete pad in the apparatus bay of a fire station well lit on a Saturday afternoon. "This is the most perfect scene you will ever show up on". In reality it's 3am, the patient is morbidly obese, wedged between the toilet and bath in their double wide (none of this is judgmental, it's just the scenarios you have to work on).
And you're going to get paid utter shit.
Realize that most of the EMT salary reporting you might see online is a weird hybrid of paramedic and EFT pay reporting. The PNW is progressive and you'll be lucky to break $20/hour. Want to do it in the SE and it's very likely you'll be at half that, with companies promising that "you'll make more than you think because you can get as much OT as you like!" which is ... not the promise it's cracked up to be.
I loved it, relished it, it was my life. I missed it but now, mostly, I just look back on it and think of the few patients I genuinely made a difference to, above and beyond immediate outcomes.
I love picking up these practical skills even though I hardly ever use them. I did a whole course in avalanche safety right before I left Colorado. Now I live in Philadelphia. Still happy I did it.
On point 9, "The certificate is just gonna expire if I don’t use it.", check out the "recertification by examination" tab of https://www.nremt.org/EMT/Recertification.
I personally find it easier to pass a mildly annoying test every couple years than to track CE hours, so that's how I recertify.
[OP] citelao | a day ago
Because worst-case, you might enjoy it.
yoyohello13 | 23 hours ago
Also, I’m 38, so I tend to feel too old. But I just started a part time program at a community college. Worst case I just learn some interesting skills.
Anyway, thanks for writing it. It’s good know I’m not just crazy wanting to do part time EMT work and keep my software career. I kind of feel like an idiot sometimes when other people ask me why I’m doing it.
MissionControl | 22 hours ago
Like OP and others, it would be great if there were better volunteer opportunities in big cities. Lmk if you want to start something.
detourdog | 22 hours ago
ianjbutler | 21 hours ago
Not OP, but there are dozens of us. If you might be interested in things like ski-patrol or guiding.. there's loads of related NOLS certificates besides WEMT / WFR for things like avalanche, cold-water rescue, high-angle rescue. It differs by location, but something like EMTB cert often requires a "intern" type of deal with ride-alongs and intubation IIRC, which may or may not be scary, but just the schedule of it can be harder for people with another career. Meanwhile your friendly local search and rescue may need help, and many of the more casual certs are very helpful, and knowing some of this stuff is just good civics.
jonah | 16 hours ago
Generally first aid/ CPR is the basic medical requirement, but they will teach you that. EMT or higher is absolutely useful though.
[OP] citelao | 20 hours ago
> How do you balance keeping the skills sharp while working another job full time?
I don't! I've been volunteering with my current service for ~2yrs, and I still don't feel like a very "smart" EMT. It's coming, but slowly. And I'm trying to do more shifts (e.g. every week).
I simply try to "manage" my stupidity. I usually ride with a more experienced EMT, and any very-big calls will get a medic; I focus on learning & asking questions when it's appropriate; I try to drill _something_ every shift. If I really wanted to learn quickly, I'd take a few weeks off and run with AMR in a city... that definitely gets the calls.
> Also, I’m 38, so I tend to feel too old.
That's one of the biggest reasons I delayed. I felt too old at 29 & worried I would be out of place. FWIW, I think the class after us had an average age of ~35, so you might fit in more than you expect.
I resonate with wanting to be good, though. I think about it every time I get a call. My counterargument is (a) that 1 month of training is 1 month more than most folks have, and (b) in an emergency, you're always part of a team.
Even if you just fetch the stairchair.
vjulian | a day ago
swozey | 23 hours ago
whartung | 23 hours ago
The work seemed to suit him, he enjoyed it. I'd hang out with him at his base of operations (he was a private paramedic in LA County).
Then, one day, he quit.
He quit, and didn't renew his certification.
And he won't talk about it, and, boy, yea, did he have some stories.
But something got to him.
ctchocula | 21 hours ago
whartung | 19 hours ago
There was one "gallows humor" story of an obviously fatal bicycle accident. As paramedics, they could not declare the victim dead. They had to have authorization from the hospital.
The hospital insisted they send the EKG data back.
They said "Ok", and rather than going through the effort of connecting up the victim, they just stuck the leads to the truck and said "here it comes".
Then they got the OK to declare there at the scene.
p1anecrazy | 18 hours ago
Rastonbury | 4 hours ago
p1anecrazy | 3 hours ago
scarecrowbob | 2 hours ago
Still (and this is a general opinion unrelated to any judgement about the OP's story, which I don't hold any opinion on), finding a pulse can be hard for a lot of folks in a lot of situations.
I'm pretty okay with, say, 20-year-old EMT-Bs needing a bit more bureaucracy before they declare me dead. It takes about 90 seconds to place a 4-lead, no shade on those kiddos.
dreamcompiler | 21 hours ago
One I'll call John. He was a fantastic medic. Calm and reassuring in the toughest situations, and he was a great teacher of new EMTs. He had seen everything. Farming accidents (they're terrible), DRTs, MVAs, MCIs, child abuse. The works. Handled it all professionally.
One day John and his partner get this nothing call. Kid fell off his bike and scraped his knee. John's partner puts a bandaid on the kid, looks around and John is gone. They find John sitting on a curb a block away bawling his eyes out. That kid with the skinned knee was John's breaking point. He was done.
motionlessveloc | 18 hours ago
dreamcompiler | 17 hours ago
zrobotics | 21 hours ago
My BIL is a pretty highly credentialed RN. He was seriously considering quitting a few years ago and was asking me about software dev or IT as a career path. I didn't ask for any stories as that would be disrespectful & insensitive, but he was working in the NICU (intensive care unit for infants) and had transferred in from the ICU.
Medicine is clearly his calling, but even as an outsider I can understand how emotionally draining it would be to have to struggle (and sometimes lose) to save children's lives and then go home to your young family. It's tough to see death and suffering daily, and this is a big struggle for these parts of the medical field.
My BIL ended up transferring to a specialist organ transplant unit. He continues to apply his trauma experience, but doesn't need to see quite as much trauma and death on a daily basis.
Suicide & self-harm/addiction issues are higher, and it's not uncommon at all for people to need to leave the field after a traumatic event. If you aren't in the field or don't know anyone who is, it's easy to gloss over how soul-wrenchingly difficult it is to deal with having to be calm and professional to help people going through trauma. Some of the stuff these folks need to deal with is truly horrific, and it's no wonder that PTSD is fairly common.
Also not surprising that EMS has a bit of a fratty/military culture. The job demands high periods of physical exertion and exposure to stressful and traumatic experiences. I'm glad there are people who do this work, but I very much understand why it is difficult.
cogman10 | 19 hours ago
Effectively people are on call. A radio is passed around amongst the volunteers and it's pretty open (most of my family have been EMTs at one point, and for decades).
Because it's rural, there's not a whole lot of cases needing EMTs, but they do occur. And because there's a rotating schedule and it's not anyone's full time job, it's really easy to say "not to day" or "I need a month".
I don't know how you can translate this into professional EMTs for a city. The best I got is hiring more EMTs and offering more flexible and lenient time off.
59percentmore | 3 hours ago
Also solves a lot of problems with (long-term) unemployment.
scarecrowbob | 3 hours ago
I think after a couple of weeks I'd probably get pretty good at it, but between the pay and the repetition that work would be pretty annoying and if I had to do this much work every day plus overtime I think it might put the hurt on me. But once a month, that's interesting. It's just really hard to find folks who don't want all my waking hours once I agree to do a little bit of work for them.
somenameforme | 16 hours ago
I have family in medicine and there were just endless stories that would have had social media in a frenzy if anybody ever shared them. At some point you have to laugh or cry, and one is way more sustainable than the other.
ButlerianJihad | 14 hours ago
Wow dismissive... it is true but seems like some outsider doesn't understand the experience and what it takes to hang with them.
I have trouble dealing with EMTs and firefighters. They come off as officious and pushy. They are there to do a thing and duty calls them, and I usually represent a waste of time and effort for them. Yet, they saved my building when someone set fire to it 6.5 years ago. Yes, two weeks into the pandemic lockdown, I was nearly displaced by a huge fire. Officious and pushy tough guys/gals made sure I still had a place to live, and they even kept my electricity on.
Last Tuesday I visited the Police Museum, and I owe another visit to the Hall of Flame firefighting museum. I'm really trying to cultivate a respect for first responders, because they are in my family and in my community.
What first responders really face every day is hostile war-zones in an urban jungle. They go into places where people hate ICE, where assholes are filming and recording and Facebooking them; they go into places where people would rather start fires and put lead into bodies than take them out. They deal with victims who are combative and families who are uncooperative. They deal with uncertainty and chaos and every possible obstacle in their way. Literally, because I was riding a Waymo two weeks ago when it was the only vehicle on a 6-lane stroad to pull over and stop for lights & sirens screaming past! (It also pulled the same stunt for a school bus with flashing lights.)
If you've seen/read The Hunger Games through its conclusion, you may get the journey of Prim after her mother, and how the cruelty of life claimed her as a victim in the end, after all that Katniss had tried to do. Primrose Everdeen is the quintessential paramedic whose mind, family and very life is ruined by her compassionate, merciful vocation.
ricardobayes | 13 hours ago
ButlerianJihad | 12 hours ago
Seriously though, there seem to be many considerate people out in traffic, and oftentimes I am the rudest one on the road, for whatever reason. I do not drive, but I find that queueing up and boarding the bus all the time, that people are generally real polite one-on-one, but also extraordinarily inconsiderate to the collective, insofar as flouting rules and breaching etiquette in crazy ways all the time. And the same goes for my neighbors around here, who seem to go out of their way to irritate others, and oftentimes I snap.
Perhaps it is an artifact or side-effect of DEI, multiculturalism, melting-pot mentality, in the big city, that really there is no common culture or common manners to any of us, and mostly people are out for their own interests. It is extremely common in American cities for road-rage escalations to violence and death. Surely the news outlets cannot even report the accidents and fatalities from people simply losing their temper whilst operating motor vehicles. And we're back to the EMT grind.
I believe that a lot of people accused of xenophobia, or hating immigrants, are actually frustrated by a loss of culture, or a dilution, and the inexorable pressure to cope with increasing diversity of cultures around us, which is simply inhuman and unworkable, IMHO. You can't solve it by mass-deporting or any human strategy. But people who share heritage and share common values are more likely to get along daily, than a crucible of ethnicities, tribes, and subcultures, that are all asserting their supremacy or dominance over one another.
teacpde | 19 hours ago
FireBeyond | 3 hours ago
I always thought it odd that people asked what the worst calls I've been on were - like "tell me about an unpleasant experience". But the thing that most people don't consider is that they assume it will be a gnarly trauma call. TBH, for me anyway, when it comes down to it, we're just blood and tissue, and in some ways you can, and have to, just 'disconnect' from that.
The worst calls are the emotionally damaging ones: SA/CSA, elder abuse, domestic violence, tragic accidents, the like. Those add up.
A department in my County has two fulltime therapists on staff.
chaostheory | 23 hours ago
dreamcompiler | 20 hours ago
[OP] citelao | 20 hours ago
Even though where I live a lot of firefighters are just EMRs... the fire services are a lot more willing to take you if you already have your EMT (since you're not gonna abuse the program to get free EMT training).
EMT really is the fastest way to become any first responder.
BenjiWiebe | 4 hours ago
switchbak | 23 hours ago
Also, they (BC Ambulance) treat you like garbage when you need assistance, and effectively force you back to work or to go find a job elsewhere.
It's shocking how badly we treat the people that willingly take on life's hardest challenges (for low pay, I might add). It's amazing any are even left after all that BS.
howunfortunate | 23 hours ago
As a former PTSD therapist, there's a lot more overlap between these two than you might expect.
Often (not always, some people are great suppressors) the worst thing you can do as a trauma survivor is continually avoid the source of trauma.
switchbak | 22 hours ago
howunfortunate | 20 hours ago
switchbak | 20 hours ago
Unfortunately that was not the case here, and his untreated PTSD left him very vulnerable to the effects of additional traumatic (work) experiences. He really needed a career change, but kept getting pushed back into service. With little in the way of effective treatment, it was hard to watch him being treated like that.
dyzone | 17 hours ago
harvey9 | 11 hours ago
keane | 23 hours ago
sergiotapia | 22 hours ago
You probably pay the cost.
davidw | 21 hours ago
dgacmu | 20 hours ago
(But, y'know, this is a very ymmv kind of thing. I enjoyed cadaver lab and thought attending an autopsy was fascinating; other people had very different reactions, etc. no idea what causes us to differ there, but differ we do!)
vcoppola | 22 hours ago
scarecrowbob | 20 hours ago
I was very impressed with those folks, younger than my own kids (who I am impressed with as well, of course).
For my own part I taught at a university during my 20s and then dropped out to work in software- changing life around has been very helpful. I can relate to doing something difficult for a while and then moving on when you've figured it out and see that it might not be the path to where you want to go. I hope it left you better for having the experience.
vcoppola | 17 hours ago
I agree with you that it’s a great job for anyone who can stomach it—especially early in their career.
Kind of like how people say everyone should work in the service industry at least once. I think caring for and serving others is messy work that forges a beautiful soul.
einpoklum | 22 hours ago
Also, I bet the whole blog post's worth would flash through the author's mind within all of 10 seconds whenever they were reminded of the possibility of taking the course. It takes both patience and self-discipline to put it all on paper like that.
Great blog post! Makes me want to take an EMT course :-)
a_lizard | 22 hours ago
Pros: - Societal good: There are few who would argue Emergency Medical personnel do harm. Being able to visibly see your work improving people's lives and contributing directly to the public good is incredibly self gratifying. - Handling emergencies: I am the one people call when things go wrong, in charge of patient care, managing scenes on the medical side. - Problem solving: each situation is unique. Assessing situations, determining patient care, and actively working difficult scenes can be fun and helps fulfill my unmedicated ADHD needs. - Handing out ambulance stickers to kids.
Cons: - Smells - Limited medical scope: I stop bleeding, give people oxygen, and get them to the hospital. I have very few medications, cannot intubate, and am not allowed to interpret an ECG. Paramedic is a 14 month program minimum that is a much larger time and money commitment, and even then, doctors are the ones that actually end up managing full patient care and make final decisions. - Pay: I took a very large pay cut. I knew this would happen, and I was incredibly burnt out at my previous job, but the medical field, especially first responders, gets away with low pay and high hours because they often rely on passion and many new people entering the field at the lower levels.
Ultimately, I still have not figured out what I want to do long term. I could go back to programming, but with the current job market, that seems inadvisable. THe medical field will pretty much always guarantee some job. I do want to pivot (still have not completed college), but see above untreated ADHD along with a few other personal things I need to work on. Nursing has higher pay, but puts you underneath doctors such that you rarely make independent medical decisions. And paramedic/firefighter is nice, but hard on the body plus issues in the culture previously discussed.
For anyone considering it, I do recommend taking a class. You can do it in 4 months with a one day a week class (how I did it), and volunteer somewhere. But understand the tradeoffs and recognize that is far from glamorous most of the time.
le-mark | 22 hours ago
But a good nurse can listen and advocate for patients in a very impactful way!
khazhoux | 22 hours ago
I'm curious about this...?
fm2606 | 21 hours ago
Go into majority of nursing homes and the smell is a combination of shit, piss and disinfectant
a_lizard | 21 hours ago
EMS also has a bad cultural issue with PPE and cleaning. Masks are not standard for every call, and by the time you walk into a house and realize you need one, your gloves may already be dirty and you may already be busy with the patient. I am thinking about wearing an n95 mask to every single call, but most people just need someone to take them to the hospital and be a friendly ear while riding. To put on a mask in front of a patient may be taken as a rude gesture, and facial expressions are a large part of communication.
zdragnar | 21 hours ago
PaulDavisThe1st | 20 hours ago
Delightful. But you do it anyway, because that's the nature of the task.
kjs3 | 21 hours ago
As far as the job...things for entry/junior level in IT are frankly extremely bleak. I haven't seen an entry level job rec get approved in maybe a year. And I'm watching lots of my peers getting let go; it's a bad time to be old or young in IT. OTOH...not just my BiL but my wife is in health care, and whatever downside the job holds, 'no one is hiring' and 'they're laying off folks left and right' are absolutely not something they are worrying about.
And no matter what the downsides, no matter the lack of appreciation and compensation, you're actually helping people. That's better than most of us. Best of luck.
[OP] citelao | 18 hours ago
I'm certainly glad I have my good programming job right now. I'm not sure where the field is going, but it certainly ain't 2017 anymore. I will say: like the sibling comment mentioned, nursing (or PA?) can still be a very independent job, especially as an APRN or flight nurse. But I wish you luck!
JumpCrisscross | 22 hours ago
bradleyhd | 21 hours ago
[OP] citelao | 20 hours ago
Maintaining the certificate also requires ~40hrs of continuing medical education every 2 yrs, which I accomplish via short 1hr courses every few weeks.
fm2606 | 22 hours ago
I obtained a BS in Aerospace Engineer in 1998. After job jumping several times I realized I didn't care for it. I was basically a "paper" engineer, which was my fault as I never pursued jobs that did "real" engineering.
Anyway, around 2003/2004 I went to night school for EMT. The purpose was to be a dive master on dive boats (I was/am a dive master - I don't dive anymore). It was fun.
My engineering job sucked so I jumped into paramedic school right after EMT. I really enjoyed it. About a month from graduating PM school, county fire department came in to class and said they would hire paramedic only but we would have to cross train to firefighter.
In Feb 2006 I was 35 yo with a 9 month old baby and decided if I didn't do it then I never would so I applied and got hired then department put me through fire school.
It was the best career decision of my life. It didn't take long to see a bunch of people get hurt from the job, so I figured I better have a back up plan since I also have chronic health issues. From 2010 to 2015 I did an online Masters degree in CS. After completing it I started working part time remote jobs as a developer.
Then COVID hit in 2020 and they pulled me out of the field due to my health issues. I turned 50 and was getting tired after 14 years. I started applying to full time jobs and landed one.
In 2022 I switched jobs again for a better org and I am still here. I just switched positions from Java dev to cloud engineer in May.
I absolutely enjoyed 85+% of FF/pm but it is a young person's game. It gave me confidence I probably never would have found. Again, it was literally the best career move I ever made and would recommend anyone to do it.
UqWBcuFx6NV4r | 20 hours ago
taneq | 20 hours ago
trylfthsk | 15 hours ago
To anyone that has even thought of something more outside an office, try it so long as you're physically able. Compensation is one thing, but the experience for me has been priceless.
fm2606 | 13 hours ago
Yep. When I got hired on at the fire department I took a $12,000 pay cut. Overtime was abundant so it was easy to make up the loss plus some. But you definitely can't purchase the experience
nozzlegear | 3 hours ago
fm2606 | 2 hours ago
Either due to the remoteness of rural living or just people in rural areas have more grit, the call volumes are much lower.
I live in Florida, but I am from a small rural town in MO and my mom still lives where I grew up. I was just there in August and I picked up a brochure for the county ambulance. They have 5 ambulances for the entire county and their call volume was approximately 3000 calls per year!
The county fire department I worked at has approximately 40 station and the busiest station doing 3000+ EMS calls on its own. Our department did all the 911 transports. When I left in 2020 we ran approximately 90,000 calls.
ricardobayes | 13 hours ago
fm2606 | 10 hours ago
What it did not translate to, for me, was working under pressure in IT. As a paramedic I had standard operating procedures / guidelines to guide me AND once we departed the scene I was usually no more than 30 minutes away from a doctor AND I didn't cause the problem to begin with AND once I gained confidence in my abilities I didn't get nervous as much or questioning myself. For the most part there is only so much you can do in an emergency situation in the field.
However, if something breaks in the IT world and I have management breathing down my neck (doesn't happen often) I worry that it was something I did, I don't know how to fix it, I'm not fixing it fast enough, blah, blah, blah. You would think non-life threatening IT-issues would not bother me but they do. Day to day office politics and team interaction doesn't bother me much though.
Another thing I feel like I got out of the FF/PM career is a get-it-done-figure-it-out-as-you-go. From the proverbial cat in the tree (never had that call) to a person having a heart attack, to person needs to be extricated from a vehicle, you can't just say "nope can't be done" or "I'm not doing it". I now see coworkers pushing back on stuff without even making an attempt. Try something, anything, but just don't say "nope can't do it". That is frustrating to me.
FireBeyond | 3 hours ago
As you slice and dice, the problems become simpler, the answers easier, and the insurmountable chaos you showed up to becomes progressively more manageable.
pcl | 6 hours ago
fm2606 | 3 hours ago
pure_ambition | 6 hours ago
If you're thinking about it - try it! An EMT class is pretty easy, fun, and doesn't take long.
I never realized that I was the type of guy who doesn't enjoy desk work until I became an EMT.
firefax | 2 hours ago
ambicapter | 3 hours ago
fm2606 | 3 hours ago
"Paper" is pushing paper, almost in the literal sense. It was just boring for me.
khazhoux | 22 hours ago
dreamcompiler | 20 hours ago
Some will say you get used to it. I don't. I compartmentalize during and feel after. And we have an excellent CISD (critical incident stress debriefing) program for after-care where I work. I kind of think if you get so used to the horror that you cannot be empathetic, it's time to quit.
phillc73 | 21 hours ago
Have a look at the Award in Remote Emergency Medical Technician[1] from the College of Remote and Offshore Medicine. It's 75 hours of online study, then a 6 day course in their classroom in Malta (another 50 hours). Afterwards you'll hold a recognised European tertiary qualification, but you'll still have to sort out local registration.
The AREMT course is actually also the first module in their full BSc in Remote Paramedic Practice programme.[2]
[1] https://corom.edu.mt/award-in-remote-emergency-medical-techn...
[2] https://corom.edu.mt/bsc-in-rpp/
mmooss | 2 hours ago
PaulDavisThe1st | 20 hours ago
Last year, I considered becoming an "EMR" (Emergency Medical Responder) - the lowest level of certification for emergency medical care that there is (basically, you can get vitals and stats from the patient if they are conscious). Because of timing considerations, I ended up not doing the course.
A year later, I see my 2 fellow firefighters who did become EMR's having to 20+ hours a year of mandatory continuing ed/training to their lives, and I'm pretty glad I ended up not doing that.
The firefighter part, given that we're a small, very not-busy volunteer rural fire district with an awesome district chief and culture, continues to be fantastic.
[0] thanks to the unions in my county fire department, volunteers are required to go through all the same certifications as career firefighters. We lack their level of experience (mostly) because we don't go on as many calls.
tlavoie | 16 hours ago
Moved three provinces over, and joined the volunteer fire department, doing FF and medical first responder calls. Back to just carrying a pager wherever I go, but otherwise largely back on my own time. If I'm available, great! If not, well, it's volunteer. It sure helped get acquainted with our new community, and met an awesome bunch of folks. It'll be 12 years for me in 2027.
PaulDavisThe1st | 8 hours ago
Congrats on the 12 years - apparently 3 years is the average for volunteer FF's.
tlavoie | 7 hours ago
driggs | 20 hours ago
scarecrowbob | 20 hours ago
I think that I could not do healthcare professionally if I wasn't old and had a lot of free time- it would have been thin pickings when I had a wife and kids. And a lot of the folks I work with have some deep, deep trauma and moral injuries from how poorly US healthcare treats 90% of the population.
But EMT-B is some of the lowest standards for getting into a position where I can help folks. Compared to a lot of the professional knowledge I have recieved, it's not super expensive or time consuming... like, $3k all in (including travel and supplies) and about 6 weeks of intensive study.
I am still considering what to do with that (I spent all day putting a cistern into my weird off-grid setup, so it's not like I don't have other work to be doing)>. But I have spent a lot of time with newer/beginner rock climbers and guiding is one thing. I did several days of music festival first-aid, and that was excellent and interesting. I do work at a free clinic and that's been very rewarding.
But I feel like I will have to try and get at least a couple of months of IFT or (preferably) 911 truck work to become as proficient as I'd like to be so that's what I am trying to find at the moment. But I am curious how that will go and what I will find.
k7peak | 10 hours ago
schneems | 19 hours ago
I have a lot of respect for EMTs and I’m grateful for all of them, but the pay is (comparatively) low, the stress is high and you’re pretty much guaranteed to burnout.
thetallguyyy | 18 hours ago
deweywsu | 18 hours ago
breadloser | 15 hours ago
I think in the past, CEs had to be done in person, but after COVID they started allowing 100% online CEs. IIRC, certification is good for 2 years, so if you renew at the end of your cert period, you can immediately knock out your CEs for the next renewal period, you'll be set for a whole 4 years, and you only have to pay for a month subscription to one of the CE providers.
FireBeyond | 3 hours ago
trylfthsk | 15 hours ago
Highly, highly recommend paying them a visit - truly a special organization, though I've neglected trying out one of their proper expeditions.
shawn_w | 15 hours ago
Lost a programming job in the dot com bust, couldn't land another one, eventually ended up in an EMT class and worked a series of traditional ambulance jobs and other health care positions since. Not really using it for anything but some volunteer stuff these days though.
From everything I hear about what programming jobs have become I don't really mind the career change, but man oh man do I miss the pay that comes with tech jobs.
KingOfCoders | 14 hours ago
Ylpertnodi | 7 hours ago
ricardobayes | 13 hours ago
JackMorgan | 9 hours ago
EMT was a challenging class because a few of us were competing for highest grade.
I don't do too many EMT calls these days, most of my volunteering is as a lieutenant on the fire side.
I'm very glad I did both, it's been fantastic for my chronic anxiety. I've seen some upsetting things but then I take a break for a bit to process it in therapy. There is a huge need for volunteer emergency response in the suburbs and farther out. If you are interested definitely check it out. If you find a station that's got too many assholes just find another one. Also the people I thought were the worst assholes turned out to just be a little prickly to newcomers and now we are always going out to dinner and renfaires and stuff. Heck my current year long TTRPG game is all folks from the station.
I am also a thru-hiker so I'm very interested in getting into wilderness search and rescue in the future.
I don't think I could ever do emergency response as a career, but I love volunteering. Nothing makes me more appreciative of getting to sign into work with a nice cup of tea and soothing music.
mikeocool | 8 hours ago
One recommendation, if you want to take the class but aren’t planning on doing it professionally (and have any interest in outdoor activities), take a Wilderness First Responder class. I found I learned a lot more in that class, and much it is practical in many circumstances, not just riding on an ambulance. It’s also a lot more fun, as you spend a lot of time running around in the woods learning to macguyver splints out of all kinds of stuff.
The other thing I found was that to really be good at it/feel confident treating anything beyond the most basic patients, you’re going to have to work on an ambulance full time in an urban setting. And in most places, to do that professionally, you’re going to have to become a paramedic.
gorfian_robot | 6 hours ago
intreble | 5 hours ago
FireBeyond | 3 hours ago
Compassion fatigue, depending on where you work or volunteer, is a real thing, and is ultimately the reason I retired after 14 years as a volunteer and part time EMT, paramedic, firefighter, instructor, state evaluator for new certification and continuing ed, and SEI (senior EMS instructor) accreditation, which is a state requirement to be able to oversee and sign off on the accreditation of new EMTs to the Department of Health (in my state your program needs to be certified by the DOH, and one of those requirements is oversight by an SEI who ultimately accepts responsibility for delivery of the curriculum and attestation of test documentation and results.
Culture can be a challenge, depending on where you are, yet around here there are regularly engine companies staffed by all women (who, sadly, regularly have to answer the question of whether their CPAT - candidate physical agility test - is the same as the men's. It is).
Private ambulance and in particular IFT (interfacility) can be a drain. And most companies in private EMS nickel and dime the shit out of everything, rigs that are 300,000 miles in, held together by hopes and dreams, high call volumes - the right partner on those shifts makes it a fist bumping "we're in this together", the wrong partner makes it a miserable "FML".
There is an aspect of EMT training that is "how not to kill your patient who is critically sick or injured before they get to definitive care", and there is a lot that is 2am "I fell going to the bathroom".
It is hell on your body. You are picking people up off the floor, working around them in cramped conditions that say "fuck ergonomics and lifting mechanics". My students stand around on a big concrete pad in the apparatus bay of a fire station well lit on a Saturday afternoon. "This is the most perfect scene you will ever show up on". In reality it's 3am, the patient is morbidly obese, wedged between the toilet and bath in their double wide (none of this is judgmental, it's just the scenarios you have to work on).
And you're going to get paid utter shit.
Realize that most of the EMT salary reporting you might see online is a weird hybrid of paramedic and EFT pay reporting. The PNW is progressive and you'll be lucky to break $20/hour. Want to do it in the SE and it's very likely you'll be at half that, with companies promising that "you'll make more than you think because you can get as much OT as you like!" which is ... not the promise it's cracked up to be.
I loved it, relished it, it was my life. I missed it but now, mostly, I just look back on it and think of the few patients I genuinely made a difference to, above and beyond immediate outcomes.
mday404 | 2 hours ago
edunham | 2 hours ago
I personally find it easier to pass a mildly annoying test every couple years than to track CE hours, so that's how I recertify.
Gooblebrai | 52 minutes ago