I mean…in the age of AI, the fact that this, an Econ 101 concept, has to be said, speaks volumes.
Then again we have a leader who thinks that if I buy a widget from Canada and paid a buck for it, Canada just mugged America and stole a dollar from the economy.
While he likely thinks this (he isn't very intelligent), it's ALSO a strategy to isolate the US and destroy our influence in the world, and that's a major goal of this administration.
He wants to set up an oligarchic regime like his best friend has in Russia. He openly praises Kim Jung Un's totalitarian control and MAGA doesn't even bat an eye. Everything halfway decent about the country is being overtly demolished and his supporters are only now just starting to care because diesel prices have doubled and some of them are losing their farms.
It's bewildering the way markets have held up the way they have. The DJIA is over 50,000 and... I guess we're still in a golden age? None of it makes any sense.
There's a Constitutional Coup occuring, and most people are oblivious. It's not new, but it's getting close to the transition. If they actually install Trump for a 3rd term, then it's over. I personally think they'll somehow get Vance in after Jan 20 next year, so he can have 10 years.
The current president has this habit of accidentally saying "weird things" that people blow off, but they're just stuff the people around are actually saying and discussing.
People aren’t getting this. The UK devalued their currency to get out of a debt problem, it’s the same thing happening here. The only difference is the narrative and the puppets delivering it. The administration was not picked based on their expertise but rather on their influencing capabilities and maintain a straight face while stating lies with absolute conviction. The only question remaining is if there is a chance to stop the downturn, which decreases with each passing day.
If we just literally listen to the tech CEOs, and watch their behavior, they are saying they truly believe that within a few years, most jobs will be obsolete due to AI and robotics. They don't think that's going to go so smoothly, so they're buying islands, and building bunkers, and hiring lots of security.
People who think this is going to be like the industrial revolution or when personal computers arrived, or the internet? They're not paying attention to the speed of change here.
The wealth disparity will keep getting wider exponentially.
Which of thise techbro lunatics suggested " biofuel" when asked what would happen to all those put out of work by AI? Then he laughed, like just a joke... haha... hilarious.
Also, those advances actually allowed more people to live, and in higher density, to generate wealth. That's not necessarily the case with this change. Human workers wouldn't be necessary at all after this, so it's a huge difference. A combination of AI and humanoid robotics could eliminate the "need" for the working class.
It is and it isn't. People don't understand that most of what they see of "AI" is a very sophisticated probability based language calculator. It's pretty impressive what you can do with that especially with respect to putting together summaries of topics for review which is most of what upper leadership at a company does. Its also really good at uncovering some obscure and/or hard to find information...like every math problem its "solved".Great for coding too because 90% of coding is repeating code already written in a different form.
Machine learning is also great for finding patterns in data sets and in nature, such as protein folding...What it cannot do is produce a system that knows if it's right. What these models do not have true attention, awareness, consciousness, or capacity to innovate.
The bigger risk is people not understanding this and over relying on it, and maybe accidentally (or maybe on purpose) bombing a girls school.
Well, you're downplaying a lot of the capabilities here. The change in the workflow at my job is pretty unexpected and almost incredible in the past 6 months. This isn't about regular people chatting.
My workflows and productivity have shifted as well. In my company I'd say software development has probably seen the greatest impact from the advancements of LLMs. But that has turnd into do more to get more customers and business, not we need less people.
I'm not trying to downplaying the capabilities of humanity having language computers, and even less so what machine learning can do for complex pattern development problems like protein folding, spectral de-convolution in astronomy, or the potential negative applications like behavioral based pricing algorithms, and whatever Match group does on it's dating apps to keep 90% of it's customers away from people they are compatible with.
What I am saying is Artificial Intelligence as it stands now is just that Artificial anyone saying we're close to AGI is a charlatan or a fool. The idea that these systems come remotely close to replicating what's happening in biological systems is laughable and these systems need Gigawatts of power, our brain runs on 20 watts.
Awareness of the environment is a shortcoming. My watch tells me my walking speed has been slow today. Yes, because I was trudging through a foot of snow.
Yea, a fundamental limitation is it's output is driven by it's training data and what input data it can access from a data pool or environmental sensor. At least how we're training them now, there is no realistic way the systems can process information that's novel in real time without a human providing some context.
That's true, but 2 years ago they would just give you garbage, and now they're literally replacing millions of people's jobs. This isn't something to downplay.
It's crazy to think that the President of the United States has likely never been grocery shopping in his life.
I get that you obviously wouldn't go as President, but every one of them before him had normal upbringings. He's been sheltered for his entire 80 year existence.
It's actually even dumber, he thinks trade deficits are tantamount to theft, as if the USA doesn't get any products in return for the dollars it prints out of thin air
The errand boy and bronzer wearing biggest drama queen in world history wants to be Queen of America as promised by his autocrat backers to destroy America and Western trade. Hell to pay.
Cons, turn back now. Stop being the biggest marks in universal history.
Not Cuba! Cuba has only been around BECAUSE of the United States allowed them to. The USA is better, because we can cut off trade with everyone and build everything ourselves, because we're hot, SO hot! There's so much investment pouring into the United States, $17 trillion yesterday, and an additional $21 trilllion today. Terrible Canada has to host summits for investors, but the USA is so hot, SO hot, every day is an investor summit. I'm so smart everyone believes the smart guy. Thank you for your attention on this matter.
Is this like Peter Navarro whose economic theories were so absolutely bizarre and stupid that he had to invent a fake economist, Ron Vara (anagram of Navarro) just so he could say someone believed his stupidity?
Example of a leveraged financial "influencer" funded by the usual suspects. A Ray "loves autocrats especially Putin" Dalio or Bill "crybaby" Ackman type.
Same deal with Trump and John Barron. These dudes are owned, errand boys and off the rails creating fantasy as the cons they are selling to the marks -- sadly some really dolty marks out there.
Which is hilarious because the US climbed to the top of the heap in that period of time both economically and in terms of hard and soft power specifically because of the things they're griefing about. It was an immeasurable advantage and they're pissing it away in one of the wildest speedruns of our lifetime.
Yes and in his mind it was free. Cause he’s also bad at math.
If I was a congressman I’d act like I bought maralogo for a dollar and that he ripped me off of 1 dollar. (Because Trump doesn’t understand how buying works)
Trump has a well documented history of refusing to pay for things. It’s not that he’s dumb (but also, he’s really dumb), it’s that he thinks you’re a sucker if you give up any money for something. His preferred method has always been to first get the service or product he wants, stiff the seller, make the seller sue him, bog the seller down in protracted litigation, then settle for pennies on the dollar. Another trick he learned from his mentor, disgraced and disbarred mob lawyer Roy Cohn.
By Trump's logic, you'd become incredibly rich by locking yourself in your house and never buying anything, The idea that buying something means the entity selling it is always a losing proposition for the buyer is just stupid.
I mean, think of it like a household deciding to stop buying anything it doesn't produce itself. At first, the household might look like it's saving a lot of money. no gas, no groceries, no medication, no replacement parts, no restaurant meals. Only eating the zukes and tomatoes you grow in the garden. The saving!
But that wouldn't mean the household had suddenly become wealthier. I mean, you would spend less by not consuming things you need, but you wouldn't feel rich. Eventually, the car wouldn't run, the fridge would be empty, you might lose your job because you couldn't get to work, and your health could suffer because you couldn't get the medications or medical care you needed.
This analogy is a bit simple.. but seriously, who would think stopping trade would make you richer? It's just dumb.
The way you’ve described it is actually a very apt analogy. While reading I thought to myself, it’s almost like this is what Trump wants. It sounds like you described the start of the Great Depression almost perfectly. A time when wealth inequality was almost as bad as it is now!
The sad part is I suspect the more we warned them, the more they fell in love with Trump. They love Trump because everyone else hates him so much. You could almost see it happening in 2015 / 2016. The moment I knew he'd become the Republican nominee was when he made fun of McCain for being a POW. The media, the left, and even some on the right, immediately started to push back - but Republican voters seemed to be spurred on by the pushback and became even more devoted to him. They LOVE that he upsets the left and the establishment so much. They'll happily destroy their own country just as long as Democrats are upset by it.
> The sad part is I suspect the more we warned them, the more they fell in love with Trump.
Pretty much. There's been studies showing how this phenomena works, and it boils down to, the more you present evidence and facts, the more they will cling to their already present worldviews and opinions. Sure, some may have a change of heart, but that typically only happens after they are personally negatively impacted.
Plus would the logic not go the other way. Assuming it somehow was rational behavior shouldn't all trade partners do the same? and so you'd lose all exports--or to tie it to your analogy, your job since everyone else is also not buying anything including your labor.
CUT TRADE with Canada, Europe, Japan — ALL OF THEM!!! We spend BILLIONS buying things from them. Terrible deal. So simple: STOP BUYING. Then we SAVE ALL THE MONEY. Cars? ZERO. Machines? ZERO. Imports? ZERO. Tremendous savings. Nobody saves money like this. People said it couldn’t be done. I said. What if we simply buy NOTHING? GENIUS!!!
People are surprised I know so much about saving money by not paying my bills. Every day they ask me“how do you know so much about not paying?” Everyone’s talking about it. I tell them My uncle was the professor of not paying bills at MIT. Good man, smart man.
Trump's policies are basically trade sanctions against the United States.
And not to be paranoid, but maybe there is a different answer for his actions beyond that he's stupid or deliberately harming the nation.
Maybe the endgame is to strain the US worker. Why? Because when you live pay check to pay check, you don't talk back to your employer. You don't unionize, you don't go to political rallies or protests. You don't take vacations, and even though more money is desperately needed, you're less likely to ask for raises because you don't want to be singled out for replacement.
And all of this is great for the company. US workers are among the most productive in the world. Imagine a system where they can barely get by and must devote all there energy into labor, the government does as it pleases because nobody will stop it, and the number on Wall Street has never looked better.
Living paycheck to paycheck with zero support to survive illness and injury is exactly how unions came into being. You organize and vote them into existence. Which is the only way it has ever worked. The issue today is that everyone waits on someone else to do it for them because they’re too distracted with toys and shows. And we’ve also swallowed the bait on anything being collective as being inefficient and corrupt; hook, line, and sinker.
He wants the US economy to crash. That's why he's so pissed at his stooges at the fed not doing what he asked them to. They can see it'll crash the economy and he doesn't want to tell them why he wants that so they are backing away from it.
It's because Putin is obsessed with the fall of the USSR, that's why he made those influencers visit supermarkets and talk about how much fruit and vege they had in Russia. He wants to see hyper-inflation like that in the US, and has convinced Donald that it'll be great for him to consolidate absolute control.
I'm giving a little side-eye to Trumps crypto token and 'I love inflation' quotes. If USD becomes almost worthless while he pumps it into his token, he can then choose who in the US gets enough to eat and live, and who needs to sell everything they own.. basically making everyone who backs him online, votes for him, and Palantir tells him are true believers, into the new wealthy class.
trump has zero capabilities. His cabinet stents men. Their only concern is their personal grift. They won’t care about the average American. So every decision is only for their personal benefit.
Or, how about we import low margin commodity goods, and add some value, and sell it on at a higher margin?
Like a smartphone. Import it cheap, add some Apple software magic, and charge big dollars for the finished high margin product! Crazy idea, I know!
let’s make it even crazier!
It doesn’t even have to be physical stuff - it can be just software or services, or, I am going completely crazy here, buy foreign companies and just bring profit back!
Maybe, just maybe, US could find other ways to bring money in, so it could get physical stuff it needs back in exchange. Crazy concepts!
Pretty much any economic policy coming out of the White House won’t make America wealthier.
The guy doesn’t even understand how basic economics works. Demanding interest rates be lowered to fix inflation ain’t gonna make America wealthier either.
The entire discourse of the trade war idea is so stupid. If you’re a high income earner and you buy a haircut from a barber who makes less than you is she “ripping you off” because there’s a trade deficit between you and the barber? Or are you getting a service worth more than what you paid for?
It's even worse than that because between the barber and you there are dock workers, truck drivers, admin staff, someone running the barbershop, someone cleaning it. All earning money, paying taxes, buying things in the local economy.
And I have to keep hearing about how “I had to leave the Democrat party… I didn’t change… They changed… Boo-hoo hoo”
Not to steer this into a political conversation, but what the hell happened to old-fashioned free trade laissec faaire conservative Republicans of not all that long ago? Why are they not speaking out against this poisonous garbage and frankly wire are only a handful of them leaving the party over it?
Unfortunately, you are correct. DEI is just cover to fire women and minorities because obviously none of them could have ever earned their position.
Meanwhile, if we really went by “meritocracy,” not a single Trump cabinet member would be there. Heck, there are at least four or five people on my block alone that are more qualified to be defense secretary than Pete Hegseth
Trump doesn't care if cutting off trade with Europe will make America wealthier.
He cares if it will make himself, his family, and/or some of his friends richer.
Richer being more money, not wealthier as in some great long term gain.
If he costs the US economy 1 trillion, and he makes 1 million, then the answer is simple.
"Hey everybody, I made another million."
If you want to understand what trump will do in any given circumstance first look at the grift. Often his ego may seem to come into play, but it is always the grift. His ego is bruised when his grifts fail.
I miss the good old classic free market Americans. How the US has lost the forbidden knowledge of entities being enabled to trade freely increases prosperity of all parties.
Cutting off trade with Europe and Canada is insanity. The central definition of an economy is the exchange of goods and services.
I am, however, curious as to how all forms of trade can always be beneficial. Yeah, that's a strawman, but closer to what I have seen expressed than the opposite. What is a trading entity [note I did not say "country" because I think this applies to smaller units within countries] to do when it finds itself mortgaging itself to its trading partners to buy their exports?
The China trade deficit has been dumped on quite a bit. Basically, Americans are buying goods from China at prices that are far lower than can be produced domestically. That's great for consumers, bad for producers. China has not directly reciprocated by buying goods/services from the US. No, direct reciprocation is not necessary - China could buy goods/services from Indonesia, and Indonesia could buy goods/services from the US.
But China has instead used their dollars to purchase US debt. What if they had used their dollars to purchase US real estate, so that at some point people in the US would be paying rent to China. Is that still a mutually beneficial arrangement? At what point does this turn into a "company town" situation where the workers live in company housing, buy things at the company store, and don't dare cross the company?
Where is the relief valve on a large trade deficit?
[I said "trading entity" because I see this scenario playing out in US localities. I have seen cities that have lost most means of "importing dollars". Their industry is gone. They do receive dollars from federal programs - Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, TANF. However as their real estate becomes cheap, it gets purchased by people from other areas, and the rent payments leave the region. These regions are not getting better, they are getting worse, as any dollars that come in leave just as fast in the form of rent.]
I do not think we should look at the current world order through the lens of countries as homogenous factions.
The evolution in communications technologies and the disparition of information control ( in both the "good" and "bad" sense of the matter), have massively blurred the balance of powers.
There are however two maim factions opposing themselves and, as the pressure rises while courses of actions unfold, masks are falling.
It is, however, still time to make the right choice. At leadership level, where it might be complicated depending on were the real allegiances lie (will be seen in due time) but above all by those who follow them as the real intentions of their leaderships become clear.
This is valid for both sides on both counts (leadership to do the right thing and followers to rethink their support).
He does it only to extract money from US trading partners , for HIMSELF. Things carrying on pretty much as they always have, presents no mechanism for him to enrich himself.
So he breaks the systems. Demands tribute.
So crooked. Unbelievable that people are not acknowledging this. They SEE IT. they just can’t bear to call it what it is.
The art of good business is being a good middleman. If you've got the resources in the United States and you pay someone $30 to cut down that tree, that company then sells it for $100 and the shipping company spends $10 driving it over to your mill and charges $30 for shipping it, the mill pays someone $50 to turn it into 100 boards and they sell each board for $3. Ignoring overhead costs of running all those companies the tree cutting company made $70, the shipping company made $20, and the mill made $220. The retailer then sells it to the end user at $5 a board and makes $200. Integrating the process vertically produces more profit for the one company doing all the steps, economies of scale and advancements in productivity further drive down costs, so you make more. But also if you buy the boards from somewhere that pays the tree cutter $4 and the mill worker $5 and your shipping goes up by $50 you make even more and have less overhead and administrative stuff to deal with, so America largely shopped out all the expensive parts and kept prices the same. Now they want to go back and it's too late.
How is it possible that a Wharton graduate can show this absolute ignorance for simple macroeconomics or trade economics? Has a school ever rescinded a diploma because the bearer has shown zero capabilities in his field of study?
We spent decades getting all of the sweetest shit from all over the world and the only thing we had to give in exchange was paper or electronically transmitted numbers, both of which rapidly lose value. The lifestyle this enabled is what real wealth looks like.
Is Trump driving this by himself? Where is he coming up with this? The government in the US is a huge machine, is their a cabal in government whispering this in his ear? Has he been tapped up by some billionaire? I thought generally Republicans were free market advocates.
No it wouldn’t. Obviously trade means more money to be made with goods moving to areas where supply and demand are present. Regardless, I don’t know what the article is speaking to but I’m guessing Trumps after hurting more people than his business sense seems to be capable of negotiating a “deal”. He has proven to be a moron on the global stage.
"If we stopped spending money on European goods and services, we would have all that unspent money left in our wallet. Hard-earned 'murican money. Obviously we would be wealthier."
I live in Connecticut, literally the only state where the largest trade partner is the EU. We'd be fucked if we didn't know how to do end runs around bullshit.
I don’t think he cares if the country is wealthier , he cares if himself is wealthier. That why he pushed for low interest rates, he’s looking to score a once in a lifetime (probably third in a lifetime ) very low interest rate loan in the hundred of dollars as some sort of self reward for his “leadership”. European banks loaned him millions of dollars in the early 00’s , he might be sour about that
Kalorama_Master | 20 hours ago
I mean…in the age of AI, the fact that this, an Econ 101 concept, has to be said, speaks volumes.
Then again we have a leader who thinks that if I buy a widget from Canada and paid a buck for it, Canada just mugged America and stole a dollar from the economy.
Cry, the beloved country
ProblemSame4838 | 20 hours ago
A moron who thinks a trade deficit is the same as a budget deficit.
LoveOfProfit | 19 hours ago
If only Republicans actually cared about the budget deficit with such actionable fervor.
chrisk9 | 15 hours ago
They will when Democrats get back in office. And around and around we go.
ScoffersGonnaScoff | 18 hours ago
They will do as the algos tell them.
ScannerBrightly | 18 hours ago
You mean 'billionaires', who wrote the algos.
ScoffersGonnaScoff | 18 hours ago
Yeah, and the main narratives from Foxnewsmax that spread like fire through algo platforms.
Basicly-Inevitable | 19 hours ago
While he likely thinks this (he isn't very intelligent), it's ALSO a strategy to isolate the US and destroy our influence in the world, and that's a major goal of this administration.
NihiloZero | 18 hours ago
He wants to set up an oligarchic regime like his best friend has in Russia. He openly praises Kim Jung Un's totalitarian control and MAGA doesn't even bat an eye. Everything halfway decent about the country is being overtly demolished and his supporters are only now just starting to care because diesel prices have doubled and some of them are losing their farms.
It's bewildering the way markets have held up the way they have. The DJIA is over 50,000 and... I guess we're still in a golden age? None of it makes any sense.
Hypernormalisation is in full swing.
Basicly-Inevitable | 18 hours ago
There's a Constitutional Coup occuring, and most people are oblivious. It's not new, but it's getting close to the transition. If they actually install Trump for a 3rd term, then it's over. I personally think they'll somehow get Vance in after Jan 20 next year, so he can have 10 years.
The current president has this habit of accidentally saying "weird things" that people blow off, but they're just stuff the people around are actually saying and discussing.
twinpac | 14 hours ago
Trump will be the fall guy. Vance is so much worse than Trump with Peter Thiel pulling the strings.
GuelphEastEndGhetto | 18 hours ago
People aren’t getting this. The UK devalued their currency to get out of a debt problem, it’s the same thing happening here. The only difference is the narrative and the puppets delivering it. The administration was not picked based on their expertise but rather on their influencing capabilities and maintain a straight face while stating lies with absolute conviction. The only question remaining is if there is a chance to stop the downturn, which decreases with each passing day.
Basicly-Inevitable | 18 hours ago
If we just literally listen to the tech CEOs, and watch their behavior, they are saying they truly believe that within a few years, most jobs will be obsolete due to AI and robotics. They don't think that's going to go so smoothly, so they're buying islands, and building bunkers, and hiring lots of security.
People who think this is going to be like the industrial revolution or when personal computers arrived, or the internet? They're not paying attention to the speed of change here.
The wealth disparity will keep getting wider exponentially.
dostoevsky4evah | an hour ago
Which of thise techbro lunatics suggested " biofuel" when asked what would happen to all those put out of work by AI? Then he laughed, like just a joke... haha... hilarious.
GuelphEastEndGhetto | 17 hours ago
Technological advancements before were big steps. AI is a giant leap that has not been seen before.
Basicly-Inevitable | 17 hours ago
Also, those advances actually allowed more people to live, and in higher density, to generate wealth. That's not necessarily the case with this change. Human workers wouldn't be necessary at all after this, so it's a huge difference. A combination of AI and humanoid robotics could eliminate the "need" for the working class.
The_Keg | an hour ago
you are mentally challenged if you think AI and robotics dont improve people lives.
Even a robot that can save time doing basic chores is at least $300 a month in saving.
CaptainLobsterSauce | 12 hours ago
It is and it isn't. People don't understand that most of what they see of "AI" is a very sophisticated probability based language calculator. It's pretty impressive what you can do with that especially with respect to putting together summaries of topics for review which is most of what upper leadership at a company does. Its also really good at uncovering some obscure and/or hard to find information...like every math problem its "solved".Great for coding too because 90% of coding is repeating code already written in a different form.
Machine learning is also great for finding patterns in data sets and in nature, such as protein folding...What it cannot do is produce a system that knows if it's right. What these models do not have true attention, awareness, consciousness, or capacity to innovate.
The bigger risk is people not understanding this and over relying on it, and maybe accidentally (or maybe on purpose) bombing a girls school.
Basicly-Inevitable | 11 hours ago
Well, you're downplaying a lot of the capabilities here. The change in the workflow at my job is pretty unexpected and almost incredible in the past 6 months. This isn't about regular people chatting.
CaptainLobsterSauce | 9 hours ago
My workflows and productivity have shifted as well. In my company I'd say software development has probably seen the greatest impact from the advancements of LLMs. But that has turnd into do more to get more customers and business, not we need less people.
I'm not trying to downplaying the capabilities of humanity having language computers, and even less so what machine learning can do for complex pattern development problems like protein folding, spectral de-convolution in astronomy, or the potential negative applications like behavioral based pricing algorithms, and whatever Match group does on it's dating apps to keep 90% of it's customers away from people they are compatible with.
What I am saying is Artificial Intelligence as it stands now is just that Artificial anyone saying we're close to AGI is a charlatan or a fool. The idea that these systems come remotely close to replicating what's happening in biological systems is laughable and these systems need Gigawatts of power, our brain runs on 20 watts.
Affectionate_One_700 | 7 hours ago
All you reveal is that you probably don't do a white-collar job, and you definitely don't code, or use AI on a regular basis.
You're sticking your head in the sand, and when enough people do that, it's really dangerous.
GuelphEastEndGhetto | 11 hours ago
Awareness of the environment is a shortcoming. My watch tells me my walking speed has been slow today. Yes, because I was trudging through a foot of snow.
CaptainLobsterSauce | 11 hours ago
Yea, a fundamental limitation is it's output is driven by it's training data and what input data it can access from a data pool or environmental sensor. At least how we're training them now, there is no realistic way the systems can process information that's novel in real time without a human providing some context.
Basicly-Inevitable | 11 hours ago
That's true, but 2 years ago they would just give you garbage, and now they're literally replacing millions of people's jobs. This isn't something to downplay.
devliegende | 16 hours ago
> The UK devalued their currency to get out of a debt problem.
This doesn't make any sense. The UK (government) debt is all in pounds. Devaluation of the pound doesn't change the debt.
GuelphEastEndGhetto | 15 hours ago
They did this back in 1967. Lots or reading material on it.
devliegende | 14 hours ago
1967 was under the Bretton Woods fixed exchange rate system. It wouldn't apply anymore.
devliegende | 12 hours ago
It also seems like you don't understand the difference between a trade deficit and government debt. You and Donald Trump have that in common.
GuelphEastEndGhetto | 12 hours ago
Okee dokee
ProblemSame4838 | 8 hours ago
Also a major goal of Putin and Netanyahu.
given2fly_ | 19 hours ago
This is also a man who thought that people claiming asylum meant they were coming from a mental institution.
1-Dollar-Doge-Coins | 15 hours ago
Also a man who just learned the word "groceries" within the last 2 years.
given2fly_ | 15 hours ago
It's crazy to think that the President of the United States has likely never been grocery shopping in his life.
I get that you obviously wouldn't go as President, but every one of them before him had normal upbringings. He's been sheltered for his entire 80 year existence.
Federal-Effort-5686 | 19 hours ago
It's actually even dumber, he thinks trade deficits are tantamount to theft, as if the USA doesn't get any products in return for the dollars it prints out of thin air
ProblemSame4838 | 8 hours ago
That’s true! He claims my country (Canada) has been “ripping us off for decades”
Affectionate_One_700 | 7 hours ago
Stop doing that!!
QuantGuru | 16 hours ago
Don’t forget the orange man also buys vote by promising $5,000 lol
californicating | 18 hours ago
He also doesn't care about the budget deficit, which has ballooned during his tenure.
Own-Chemist2228 | 17 hours ago
When you see everything as a transactional "us vs them" battle, you end up thinking a trade deficit means losing.
lawtechie | 17 hours ago
Or that the Fed determines the creditworthiness of US debt.
piltdownman38 | 19 hours ago
Trump wants to sanction the US by cutting off trade. Turning the US into Cuba
drawkbox | 19 hours ago
The errand boy and bronzer wearing biggest drama queen in world history wants to be Queen of America as promised by his autocrat backers to destroy America and Western trade. Hell to pay.
Cons, turn back now. Stop being the biggest marks in universal history.
Oxeneer666 | 18 hours ago
Not Cuba! Cuba has only been around BECAUSE of the United States allowed them to. The USA is better, because we can cut off trade with everyone and build everything ourselves, because we're hot, SO hot! There's so much investment pouring into the United States, $17 trillion yesterday, and an additional $21 trilllion today. Terrible Canada has to host summits for investors, but the USA is so hot, SO hot, every day is an investor summit. I'm so smart everyone believes the smart guy. Thank you for your attention on this matter.
gravtix | 19 hours ago
I watched year old interviews with Robert Lightizer, Trump’s trade representative from his first term who negotiated CUSMA.
He basically said the same thing. He thinks the last 70 or so years of global economic prosperity came at the expense of the USA.
Other countries had a free ride.
This didn’t originate from Trump and it won’t stop when he’s gone.
dogs_gt_cats | 19 hours ago
Is this like Peter Navarro whose economic theories were so absolutely bizarre and stupid that he had to invent a fake economist, Ron Vara (anagram of Navarro) just so he could say someone believed his stupidity?
SunshineSeattle | 19 hours ago
The one and the same.
gravtix | 19 hours ago
Yes.
Well Navarro seems like a special kind of stupid.
Iran War Will Lower Energy Prices
martin | 12 hours ago
When the price dropped momentarily from $4.50 to $4.45, Scott Bessent bragged as much.
drawkbox | 19 hours ago
Example of a leveraged financial "influencer" funded by the usual suspects. A Ray "loves autocrats especially Putin" Dalio or Bill "crybaby" Ackman type.
Same deal with Trump and John Barron. These dudes are owned, errand boys and off the rails creating fantasy as the cons they are selling to the marks -- sadly some really dolty marks out there.
nicetriangle | 19 hours ago
Which is hilarious because the US climbed to the top of the heap in that period of time both economically and in terms of hard and soft power specifically because of the things they're griefing about. It was an immeasurable advantage and they're pissing it away in one of the wildest speedruns of our lifetime.
Wide-Yak7602 | 18 hours ago
Well if they always claimed prosperity what is the issue then? If getting the resources to build their touted great economy wouldn’t that be a win?
gravtix | 17 hours ago
Well then he gets into trade deficits and it basically comes down to manufacturing.
It’s mostly directed at China but he seems to hold every country
He mentions things like the near total collapse of the US Steel industry(which was due to a list of reasons iirc).
Basically they seem to want “Made in USA” to be like “Made in China” is today.
One reason they have no problem tanking the USD.
1-Dollar-Doge-Coins | 15 hours ago
What I want to know is, do they actually believe this, or is this just a talking point to get their base on board?
PsychologicalBee1801 | 19 hours ago
Because when you buy a red hat from Trump for 30 dollars and it costs him 1 dollar he did steal 29 dollars and he’s not good at math.
DouglasRather | 17 hours ago
It costs him $1.00 because it is made in China
PsychologicalBee1801 | 17 hours ago
Yes and in his mind it was free. Cause he’s also bad at math.
If I was a congressman I’d act like I bought maralogo for a dollar and that he ripped me off of 1 dollar. (Because Trump doesn’t understand how buying works)
Technical-Activity95 | 11 hours ago
well it is actually free because he wont pay the factory and also deducts that 1 dollar in costs from taxes so he makes 31 dollars on every hat.
Reagalan | 17 hours ago
1600s merchantilism, so hot right now.
Leopold_Darkworth | 17 hours ago
Trump has a well documented history of refusing to pay for things. It’s not that he’s dumb (but also, he’s really dumb), it’s that he thinks you’re a sucker if you give up any money for something. His preferred method has always been to first get the service or product he wants, stiff the seller, make the seller sue him, bog the seller down in protracted litigation, then settle for pennies on the dollar. Another trick he learned from his mentor, disgraced and disbarred mob lawyer Roy Cohn.
seventysevensevens | 16 hours ago
People had to Google what a tariff was after they voted for him... And since they can't read they moved on and blamed Biden/Obama.
The amount of barely educated people voting against their own best interests is nuts.
And that's not even the ravenous bigots that voted solely to hurt or "own" the libs.
NextGen-Panic | 14 hours ago
Waitaminute... if we cut off trade with Europe and Canada, but our debt-to-GDP ratio is 135%, how are we supposed to make up the difference?
Who's left to do business with that would help reduce our deficits?
What a bunch of fucking morons "anti-DEI" turned out to be.
Character_Divide_998 | 9 hours ago
Yeah, almost like decades of attacking education was an idea found in good faith.
strangefish | 24 minutes ago
By Trump's logic, you'd become incredibly rich by locking yourself in your house and never buying anything, The idea that buying something means the entity selling it is always a losing proposition for the buyer is just stupid.
johnnyfeelings | 20 hours ago
I mean, think of it like a household deciding to stop buying anything it doesn't produce itself. At first, the household might look like it's saving a lot of money. no gas, no groceries, no medication, no replacement parts, no restaurant meals. Only eating the zukes and tomatoes you grow in the garden. The saving!
But that wouldn't mean the household had suddenly become wealthier. I mean, you would spend less by not consuming things you need, but you wouldn't feel rich. Eventually, the car wouldn't run, the fridge would be empty, you might lose your job because you couldn't get to work, and your health could suffer because you couldn't get the medications or medical care you needed.
This analogy is a bit simple.. but seriously, who would think stopping trade would make you richer? It's just dumb.
JimroidZeus | 20 hours ago
The way you’ve described it is actually a very apt analogy. While reading I thought to myself, it’s almost like this is what Trump wants. It sounds like you described the start of the Great Depression almost perfectly. A time when wealth inequality was almost as bad as it is now!
bootyfischer | 18 hours ago
We’re coming up on the anniversary of the Great Depression and speed running the policies that made it happen so yay
Reagalan | 17 hours ago
This is what happens when you vote Republican. We warned them. They didn't listen.
Trapezoidal_Sunshine | 17 hours ago
The sad part is I suspect the more we warned them, the more they fell in love with Trump. They love Trump because everyone else hates him so much. You could almost see it happening in 2015 / 2016. The moment I knew he'd become the Republican nominee was when he made fun of McCain for being a POW. The media, the left, and even some on the right, immediately started to push back - but Republican voters seemed to be spurred on by the pushback and became even more devoted to him. They LOVE that he upsets the left and the establishment so much. They'll happily destroy their own country just as long as Democrats are upset by it.
greenroom628 | 16 hours ago
agreed. MAGA is the party personification of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Kataphractoi | 3 hours ago
> The sad part is I suspect the more we warned them, the more they fell in love with Trump.
Pretty much. There's been studies showing how this phenomena works, and it boils down to, the more you present evidence and facts, the more they will cling to their already present worldviews and opinions. Sure, some may have a change of heart, but that typically only happens after they are personally negatively impacted.
T4TrhavrKhcFt | 16 hours ago
Sadly, I also believe this to be true.
Snarky1Bunny | 7 hours ago
https://navigatorresearch.org/price-takers-not-price-makers-iowa-farmers-on-tariffs-trump-and-what-americans-get-wrong-about-farming-2/
Lust4Me | 17 hours ago
The sad 100-year cycle of generational knowledge dying off to be replaced by ignorant decision making T.T
kent_eh | 7 hours ago
> We’re coming up on the anniversary of the Great Depression and speed running the policies that made it happen so yay
Even making use of some of the same laws and policies that helped make the great Depression worse.
s1m0n8 | 15 hours ago
And you might spend so much time doing things you didn't have to do before (growing food etc.) that you even earn less from your employment.
Xatsman | 13 hours ago
Plus would the logic not go the other way. Assuming it somehow was rational behavior shouldn't all trade partners do the same? and so you'd lose all exports--or to tie it to your analogy, your job since everyone else is also not buying anything including your labor.
gs87 | 20 hours ago
CUT TRADE with Canada, Europe, Japan — ALL OF THEM!!! We spend BILLIONS buying things from them. Terrible deal. So simple: STOP BUYING. Then we SAVE ALL THE MONEY. Cars? ZERO. Machines? ZERO. Imports? ZERO. Tremendous savings. Nobody saves money like this. People said it couldn’t be done. I said. What if we simply buy NOTHING? GENIUS!!!
Basicly-Inevitable | 20 hours ago
I stopped buying gas and food! Saving SO much now!
dogs_gt_cats | 20 hours ago
And losing weight in the process!! WINNING!
Warm_Scientist4928 | 18 hours ago
Exactly! Now when I stop for gas I only fill tank halfway. It’s saving me a lot actually.
xole | 14 hours ago
Retired Trump voters should stop buying gas and food. It would help save social security. It's the patriotic thing to do.
Tupcek | 19 hours ago
I’ve heard you can reprocess your fecals and eat them second time, as our digestive system is not 100% efficient so there are still nutrients in
drawkbox | 18 hours ago
You just have to put bleach in there. Then your Goya beans can be eaten multiple times MAHAhaha. /s
Kataphractoi | 3 hours ago
I wish I could stop buying gas. Over $50 for just 12 gallons, the hell is this bullshit.
Cumulus_Anarchistica | 18 hours ago
Legitimately can't tell if quote or parody.
el_diego | 20 hours ago
Who would've thought if you just stop buying things you'd save heaps. Now, what to do with all this mountain of cash 🤔
ArrowheadDZ | 19 hours ago
People are surprised I know so much about saving money by not paying my bills. Every day they ask me“how do you know so much about not paying?” Everyone’s talking about it. I tell them My uncle was the professor of not paying bills at MIT. Good man, smart man.
Sea-Ambition-451 | 16 hours ago
I'm following the Donald Trump Weight Loss Plan, BIGLY GENIUS.
with tears in my eyes, I cannot afford to buy enough food anymore.
May Baal-zebub bless you! Glory to the Antichrist.
Mengs87 | 15 hours ago
Same logic would mean Bhutan, Vanuatu and North Korea would be the richest economies in the world.
ICLazeru | 19 hours ago
Trump's policies are basically trade sanctions against the United States.
And not to be paranoid, but maybe there is a different answer for his actions beyond that he's stupid or deliberately harming the nation.
Maybe the endgame is to strain the US worker. Why? Because when you live pay check to pay check, you don't talk back to your employer. You don't unionize, you don't go to political rallies or protests. You don't take vacations, and even though more money is desperately needed, you're less likely to ask for raises because you don't want to be singled out for replacement.
And all of this is great for the company. US workers are among the most productive in the world. Imagine a system where they can barely get by and must devote all there energy into labor, the government does as it pleases because nobody will stop it, and the number on Wall Street has never looked better.
Oh, did I say imagine? Weird.
chairmaker45 | 19 hours ago
Living paycheck to paycheck with zero support to survive illness and injury is exactly how unions came into being. You organize and vote them into existence. Which is the only way it has ever worked. The issue today is that everyone waits on someone else to do it for them because they’re too distracted with toys and shows. And we’ve also swallowed the bait on anything being collective as being inefficient and corrupt; hook, line, and sinker.
roamingandy | 18 hours ago
He wants the US economy to crash. That's why he's so pissed at his stooges at the fed not doing what he asked them to. They can see it'll crash the economy and he doesn't want to tell them why he wants that so they are backing away from it.
It's because Putin is obsessed with the fall of the USSR, that's why he made those influencers visit supermarkets and talk about how much fruit and vege they had in Russia. He wants to see hyper-inflation like that in the US, and has convinced Donald that it'll be great for him to consolidate absolute control.
I'm giving a little side-eye to Trumps crypto token and 'I love inflation' quotes. If USD becomes almost worthless while he pumps it into his token, he can then choose who in the US gets enough to eat and live, and who needs to sell everything they own.. basically making everyone who backs him online, votes for him, and Palantir tells him are true believers, into the new wealthy class.
Turioturen | 10 hours ago
>He wants the US economy to crash.
Wrong.
He "knows" that what he is doing is the best possible policy.
He "knows" that he is right.
There is no great master plan, or anything like that.
FoogYllis | 20 hours ago
trump has zero capabilities. His cabinet stents men. Their only concern is their personal grift. They won’t care about the average American. So every decision is only for their personal benefit.
EvitaPuppy | 20 hours ago
Or, how about we import low margin commodity goods, and add some value, and sell it on at a higher margin? Like a smartphone. Import it cheap, add some Apple software magic, and charge big dollars for the finished high margin product! Crazy idea, I know!
Tupcek | 19 hours ago
let’s make it even crazier!
It doesn’t even have to be physical stuff - it can be just software or services, or, I am going completely crazy here, buy foreign companies and just bring profit back!
Maybe, just maybe, US could find other ways to bring money in, so it could get physical stuff it needs back in exchange. Crazy concepts!
JimroidZeus | 20 hours ago
Pretty much any economic policy coming out of the White House won’t make America wealthier.
The guy doesn’t even understand how basic economics works. Demanding interest rates be lowered to fix inflation ain’t gonna make America wealthier either.
player89283517 | 20 hours ago
The entire discourse of the trade war idea is so stupid. If you’re a high income earner and you buy a haircut from a barber who makes less than you is she “ripping you off” because there’s a trade deficit between you and the barber? Or are you getting a service worth more than what you paid for?
CatPartyElvis | 19 hours ago
Haircut from a badger sounds fun, just not a honey badger.
LoudestHoward | 12 hours ago
It's even worse than that because between the barber and you there are dock workers, truck drivers, admin staff, someone running the barbershop, someone cleaning it. All earning money, paying taxes, buying things in the local economy.
OffSidesByALot | 20 hours ago
And I have to keep hearing about how “I had to leave the Democrat party… I didn’t change… They changed… Boo-hoo hoo”
Not to steer this into a political conversation, but what the hell happened to old-fashioned free trade laissec faaire conservative Republicans of not all that long ago? Why are they not speaking out against this poisonous garbage and frankly wire are only a handful of them leaving the party over it?
NoPerformance5952 | 19 hours ago
Quiet, competent republicans are gone. Rabid culture warriors who would lop 10% off of the economy to kill DEI are now the reality.
OffSidesByALot | 17 hours ago
Unfortunately, you are correct. DEI is just cover to fire women and minorities because obviously none of them could have ever earned their position.
Meanwhile, if we really went by “meritocracy,” not a single Trump cabinet member would be there. Heck, there are at least four or five people on my block alone that are more qualified to be defense secretary than Pete Hegseth
Reagalan | 15 hours ago
There's 50 folks in this comment thread more qualified to be SecDef than Kegsbreath.
John-malto123 | 19 hours ago
The cult of Trump happened.
Ayjayz | 7 hours ago
Any bastion of economic sanity is now gone from American politics. Both parties are racing to be more insane than the other.
rm_can_suck_it | 19 hours ago
> No, cutting off trade with Europe would not make America wealthier
The problem with this statement is that it is applying logic. Please stop doing that.
EmperorOfCanada | 16 hours ago
That is the wrong question.
Trump doesn't care if cutting off trade with Europe will make America wealthier.
He cares if it will make himself, his family, and/or some of his friends richer.
Richer being more money, not wealthier as in some great long term gain.
If he costs the US economy 1 trillion, and he makes 1 million, then the answer is simple.
"Hey everybody, I made another million."
If you want to understand what trump will do in any given circumstance first look at the grift. Often his ego may seem to come into play, but it is always the grift. His ego is bruised when his grifts fail.
EidolonLives | 4 hours ago
Trump doesn't have friends, he just has associates, and they stop being even that when they cease being useful to him.
EmperorOfCanada | 3 hours ago
I believe the term you are looking for is co-conspirators.
EidolonLives | 3 hours ago
That works too.
Swaga_Dagger | 17 hours ago
I miss the good old classic free market Americans. How the US has lost the forbidden knowledge of entities being enabled to trade freely increases prosperity of all parties.
MoonBatsRule | 16 hours ago
Cutting off trade with Europe and Canada is insanity. The central definition of an economy is the exchange of goods and services.
I am, however, curious as to how all forms of trade can always be beneficial. Yeah, that's a strawman, but closer to what I have seen expressed than the opposite. What is a trading entity [note I did not say "country" because I think this applies to smaller units within countries] to do when it finds itself mortgaging itself to its trading partners to buy their exports?
The China trade deficit has been dumped on quite a bit. Basically, Americans are buying goods from China at prices that are far lower than can be produced domestically. That's great for consumers, bad for producers. China has not directly reciprocated by buying goods/services from the US. No, direct reciprocation is not necessary - China could buy goods/services from Indonesia, and Indonesia could buy goods/services from the US.
But China has instead used their dollars to purchase US debt. What if they had used their dollars to purchase US real estate, so that at some point people in the US would be paying rent to China. Is that still a mutually beneficial arrangement? At what point does this turn into a "company town" situation where the workers live in company housing, buy things at the company store, and don't dare cross the company?
Where is the relief valve on a large trade deficit?
[I said "trading entity" because I see this scenario playing out in US localities. I have seen cities that have lost most means of "importing dollars". Their industry is gone. They do receive dollars from federal programs - Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, TANF. However as their real estate becomes cheap, it gets purchased by people from other areas, and the rent payments leave the region. These regions are not getting better, they are getting worse, as any dollars that come in leave just as fast in the form of rent.]
HomeworkInevitable99 | 19 hours ago
Trade names all parties wealthier.
That's why we have markets and shops. That's why we have overseas trade, trading routes, shipping lanes and trucks on roads.
It's great that both sides benefit, but trump can't stand that. His form of the deal is, "the other side must lose".
PrestigiousAssist689 | 19 hours ago
EU and the USA need to be aligned for the collective West to remain the undisputed main power in charge of this planet.
Hence the attemps by diverging interrest to cut the ties as fast and as hard as possible.
DYODD.
RashmaDu | 18 hours ago
> Hence the attemps by diverging interrest to cut the ties as fast and as hard as possible.
The attempts led by the US?
PrestigiousAssist689 | 18 hours ago
I do not think we should look at the current world order through the lens of countries as homogenous factions.
The evolution in communications technologies and the disparition of information control ( in both the "good" and "bad" sense of the matter), have massively blurred the balance of powers.
There are however two maim factions opposing themselves and, as the pressure rises while courses of actions unfold, masks are falling.
It is, however, still time to make the right choice. At leadership level, where it might be complicated depending on were the real allegiances lie (will be seen in due time) but above all by those who follow them as the real intentions of their leaderships become clear.
This is valid for both sides on both counts (leadership to do the right thing and followers to rethink their support).
All in due time. Power is a mean, not an end.
RashmaDu | 14 hours ago
What?
AyeMatey | 17 hours ago
News flash - he doesn’t care.
He does it only to extract money from US trading partners , for HIMSELF. Things carrying on pretty much as they always have, presents no mechanism for him to enrich himself.
So he breaks the systems. Demands tribute.
So crooked. Unbelievable that people are not acknowledging this. They SEE IT. they just can’t bear to call it what it is.
Smh
grossguts | 16 hours ago
The art of good business is being a good middleman. If you've got the resources in the United States and you pay someone $30 to cut down that tree, that company then sells it for $100 and the shipping company spends $10 driving it over to your mill and charges $30 for shipping it, the mill pays someone $50 to turn it into 100 boards and they sell each board for $3. Ignoring overhead costs of running all those companies the tree cutting company made $70, the shipping company made $20, and the mill made $220. The retailer then sells it to the end user at $5 a board and makes $200. Integrating the process vertically produces more profit for the one company doing all the steps, economies of scale and advancements in productivity further drive down costs, so you make more. But also if you buy the boards from somewhere that pays the tree cutter $4 and the mill worker $5 and your shipping goes up by $50 you make even more and have less overhead and administrative stuff to deal with, so America largely shopped out all the expensive parts and kept prices the same. Now they want to go back and it's too late.
Sure-Current-3267 | 10 hours ago
How is it possible that a Wharton graduate can show this absolute ignorance for simple macroeconomics or trade economics? Has a school ever rescinded a diploma because the bearer has shown zero capabilities in his field of study?
CrayonUpMyNose | 16 hours ago
We spent decades getting all of the sweetest shit from all over the world and the only thing we had to give in exchange was paper or electronically transmitted numbers, both of which rapidly lose value. The lifestyle this enabled is what real wealth looks like.
Bessantj | 16 hours ago
Is Trump driving this by himself? Where is he coming up with this? The government in the US is a huge machine, is their a cabal in government whispering this in his ear? Has he been tapped up by some billionaire? I thought generally Republicans were free market advocates.
Ok_Sandwich8466 | 12 hours ago
No it wouldn’t. Obviously trade means more money to be made with goods moving to areas where supply and demand are present. Regardless, I don’t know what the article is speaking to but I’m guessing Trumps after hurting more people than his business sense seems to be capable of negotiating a “deal”. He has proven to be a moron on the global stage.
Affectionate_One_700 | 7 hours ago
"If we stopped spending money on European goods and services, we would have all that unspent money left in our wallet. Hard-earned 'murican money. Obviously we would be wealthier."
QED
Whaddaulookinat | 4 hours ago
I live in Connecticut, literally the only state where the largest trade partner is the EU. We'd be fucked if we didn't know how to do end runs around bullshit.
eloton_james | 2 hours ago
I don’t think he cares if the country is wealthier , he cares if himself is wealthier. That why he pushed for low interest rates, he’s looking to score a once in a lifetime (probably third in a lifetime ) very low interest rate loan in the hundred of dollars as some sort of self reward for his “leadership”. European banks loaned him millions of dollars in the early 00’s , he might be sour about that