Further proof that economic literacy is something our society desperately needs. Except when used strategically and under very specific circumstances, tariffs have bad consequences. Unfortunately, a lot of this is the result of firms lobbying for these protectionist policies in order to increase their market power and make the markets in which they operate less competitive. Consumers now get to foot the bill by paying monopoly prices.
My favorite part of the Trump economy was when instead of making the tariffs constitutionally sound by having the gop congress pass them into law, he used an unconstitutional executive order, collected tariff taxes on us for 385 days, when scotus ruled them unconstitutional (trump appointed 3 of the justices), he gave near $300 billion of our taxes to the corporations as “refunds”.
I think in the next iteration of this we should cut out the middleman and just send tax checks to the corporations.
Like my neighbor can write a check to the Waltons, I can write a check to Jeff Bezos, my other neighbor can send in a check to Tim Cook and the neighbor across the street can send one to Elon at the end of each month.
This will be a lot more efficient than having the government take 300 days to give them our money.
> he used an unconstitutional executive order, collected tariff taxes on us for 385 days, had scotus rule them unconstitutional (trump appointed 3 of the justices), then gave near $300 billion of our taxes to the corporations as “refunds”.
Another round of dubiously justified tariffs are about to be implemented agasint Canadian goods in a few days (barring some brinkmanship). And, once again, it will be the American public who will be paying.
And, of course, there will be counter-tariffs and other retaliatory measures that will be probably targeted at sectors of the US economy with the intent of being the most politically impactful to red states.
The tariffs are real but are intentionally unconstitutional. It’s a scam on the American people to transfer wealth up.
the republicans control everything and the constitution explicitly says congress has the power to levy taxes. If they wanted them to stand legal challenges they have the means to do it…
> Except when used strategically and under very specific circumstances, tariffs have bad consequences.
I mean we don't make shit. We don't make weapons, we don't make computers, we don't make movies, we don't make fucking anything anymore. We manufacture a lot of profitless nothing. That said, we don't need to tariff, we need to tax incoming capital and route it to whatever will make this nation stand strong again instead of drowing in this MAGA hell.
This is going to be the biggest wake up call for a lot of neo liberal economists. A lot of those theories about moving up the value chain and becoming service based economies were blatantly wrong, because it created the inevitable outcome of hollowing the actual productive forces of the economy, while filling the pockets of contractors bringing "efficiency in market price discovery" (which tbh never should've had a profit motive tied to it. If there's an efficient way of doing something, it should be applied universally to improve society overall)
This is becasue Trump lied to the American people when he imposed all of his taxes (tariffs) on them and said that they would bring prices down when really it was to give more tax breaks to the rich (like him). What's even worse is all the stupid pieces of $H!T who voted for Chump and still support him. Now, those morons can't afford gas and groceries.
Or in the case of my grandmother, she’ll just get a box of bulbs and almost scream “COME GET THESE LIGHT BUBZ AND FIX THIS SHIT ASS THING!” and won’t stop until someone changes it for her. And why is that? Because she somehow has better things to do than one of the simplest tasks that exists. Oh, and those better things to do? It’s praising Trump and literally hoping he seizes every bit of power he can get to take total control of the government to impose martial law and “get rid” of every democrat and everyone that ever voted for them.
At what point do we not hold people accountable? It's not like tariffs being a tax was some giant secret.
You, me, your grandma, everyone knows that if Biden imposed the same tariffs, they would've lost their minds.
So what the hell are we supposed to do with that? When deep down, for some reason, as long as Donald is making people on the left mad, then Trump voters feel like they're winning.
I’m surrounded by family members who consistently live outside of their means. They’re buying trucks they can’t afford, overpriced real estate, where they’ll be upside down if the market collapses. Most people are pretty dumb. And that’s what’s gonna make the next financial collapse worse than we could ever imagine.
Prepare for the most extreme retail apocalypse you have ever seen. Also, prepare for the housing market to Fk a lot of people up. Don’t plan on selling your place anytime soon. It’s not going to happen for a very long time. Just hold it and see what happens in the future.
Would that include cutting spending on airfare and cruises? Because that doesn’t seem to be the case at all. Even grocery shopping at Costco is packed. That place doesn’t seem to be a cost saver like it used to be.
K shaped economy? Costco is a more up market brand than say, Wall Mart. The bottom third of the economy are not flying at all and middle third is not flying much unless it is necessary. I am below the bottom half line and I sure as shit am not flying anywhere.
As a metric for how well I'm doing personally in terms of finances. I have little to no bills or expenses but even then I've had to resort to eating one maybe two cans of chicken breast for lunch every day to save money while I'm out at work. For the same amount of money I could've gone to an actual restraint. Kind of messed up ngl.
People are saving a dollar here, a dollar there. I noticed fewer people at grocery stores and less items in carts. Now I have observed more people in my neighborhood getting Amazon groceries. I have saved a lot. No more $2.50 ea bellpeppers at the "local" chain for me. I just get meats and dairy at grocery stores now, but that will change when the weather gets colder.
Zoom out, it's immaterial. Doomers once again fixating on nonsense. Face facts: the economy is booming and things have never been better for Americans. My tall and handsome friends, of which there are many, have all seen (without exception) incredible growths in earned income and net worth. Rapid and sustained career advancement continues to be a feature of life, for those of us who apply ourselves. Prudent investors are seeing tremendous returns on portfolios, to the extent that 15% annual returns are the baseline expectation.
This guy gets it, and it also explains lower labor force participation. Many of us are doing so well that employment is no longer necessary. We choose to gracefully exit the labor force and instead turn to our enormous and nearly inexhaustible investment portfolios (which are not uncommon.)
You know, I want to point out that the participation rate for 19-54 hasn’t really budged despite this, however amount of people in part time work has increased. I guess due to strong investment portfolios people don’t need a full time job with benefits anymore.
Unironically this, at least in my social bubble. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but most of my IRL peers (older Millenial white collar professionals) are doing quite well.
Fiscal responsibility from the lower, middle and upper middle class? You love to see it. Unless of course you are relying on retail markets. Savings rates too high can cause obvious problems. We have seen that playing out in several large economies over the last 30-40 years. Companies will have to innovate and make a more compelling product to pull back consumers.
I did not see any comments on the insane prices of electronics lately. The supercomputer build-outs are sucking the chips, labor, production capacity, even the direction of research. People may be keeping their phones longer.
That's the life advice that has been handed down for generations as gospel. I like to believe in the idea and it seems to work mostly, most [a majority] of the time. If we are fearful of left wing populism, the 'have nots' need to feel like they can afford to spend. Feeling less fearful of eviction or bodily damage, people will move more money.
Spending on services is up. That's what all the cool kids do. They do stuff, not so much buy stuff. Younger people are not big on being sinners. Curated wholesome is in. It's great on the 'Gram.
Typical-Meringue-890 | 18 hours ago
Further proof that economic literacy is something our society desperately needs. Except when used strategically and under very specific circumstances, tariffs have bad consequences. Unfortunately, a lot of this is the result of firms lobbying for these protectionist policies in order to increase their market power and make the markets in which they operate less competitive. Consumers now get to foot the bill by paying monopoly prices.
Odd-Wave247 | 9 hours ago
My favorite part of the Trump economy was when instead of making the tariffs constitutionally sound by having the gop congress pass them into law, he used an unconstitutional executive order, collected tariff taxes on us for 385 days, when scotus ruled them unconstitutional (trump appointed 3 of the justices), he gave near $300 billion of our taxes to the corporations as “refunds”.
I think in the next iteration of this we should cut out the middleman and just send tax checks to the corporations.
Like my neighbor can write a check to the Waltons, I can write a check to Jeff Bezos, my other neighbor can send in a check to Tim Cook and the neighbor across the street can send one to Elon at the end of each month.
This will be a lot more efficient than having the government take 300 days to give them our money.
kent_eh | 7 hours ago
> he used an unconstitutional executive order, collected tariff taxes on us for 385 days, had scotus rule them unconstitutional (trump appointed 3 of the justices), then gave near $300 billion of our taxes to the corporations as “refunds”.
Another round of dubiously justified tariffs are about to be implemented agasint Canadian goods in a few days (barring some brinkmanship). And, once again, it will be the American public who will be paying.
And, of course, there will be counter-tariffs and other retaliatory measures that will be probably targeted at sectors of the US economy with the intent of being the most politically impactful to red states.
Odd-Wave247 | 7 hours ago
The tariffs are real but are intentionally unconstitutional. It’s a scam on the American people to transfer wealth up.
the republicans control everything and the constitution explicitly says congress has the power to levy taxes. If they wanted them to stand legal challenges they have the means to do it…
Z3r0sama2017 | 7 hours ago
Imagine how badly you have to shit the bed for the neighbor you share a massive land border with to begin looking across an ocean and going 😍 nice!
kent_eh | 7 hours ago
And, now that the neighbourly trust is broken, it will take decades of good behaviour from the US to start re-establishing that trust.
Most people in the USA have no idea how much of a pariah nation their country has become.
Z3r0sama2017 | 7 hours ago
Corporations:"You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it!"
Richandler | 13 hours ago
> Except when used strategically and under very specific circumstances, tariffs have bad consequences.
I mean we don't make shit. We don't make weapons, we don't make computers, we don't make movies, we don't make fucking anything anymore. We manufacture a lot of profitless nothing. That said, we don't need to tariff, we need to tax incoming capital and route it to whatever will make this nation stand strong again instead of drowing in this MAGA hell.
These_Night_7262 | 10 hours ago
This is going to be the biggest wake up call for a lot of neo liberal economists. A lot of those theories about moving up the value chain and becoming service based economies were blatantly wrong, because it created the inevitable outcome of hollowing the actual productive forces of the economy, while filling the pockets of contractors bringing "efficiency in market price discovery" (which tbh never should've had a profit motive tied to it. If there's an efficient way of doing something, it should be applied universally to improve society overall)
CharitableRead | 9 hours ago
We don't need to "make" stuff to provide economic value via trade.
Also, we make software, AI, the world safety until a recent president, financial services, etc.
This is so basic, dude. You're in an econ subreddit for goodness sake.
kent_eh | 7 hours ago
> . We don't make weapons, we don't make computers, we don't make movies, we don't make fucking anything anymore.
But that's much more profitable for the CEOs and shareholders who are making those decisions to send their company's manufacturing offshore.
Never mind that the number of people who can afford to buy their stuff is shrinking.
digitizemd | 7 hours ago
>Further proof that economic literacy is something our society desperately needs.
No. Our country needs basic critical thinking skills. I'm talking middle-school level.
BathroomMaximum1721 | 7 hours ago
But inflation is slowing based on CPI and PPI reports?
findingmike | 4 hours ago
Where are you seeing inflation below 2%? I think the phrase you are looking for is "fluctuating around high levels".
BathroomMaximum1721 | 2 hours ago
Where did I say it is below 2%? Core CPI slowed to 2.5% YoY.
Decent-truth1712 | 18 hours ago
This is becasue Trump lied to the American people when he imposed all of his taxes (tariffs) on them and said that they would bring prices down when really it was to give more tax breaks to the rich (like him). What's even worse is all the stupid pieces of $H!T who voted for Chump and still support him. Now, those morons can't afford gas and groceries.
AgileDrag1469 | 18 hours ago
How many Trump supporters does it take to change a light bulb? 💡
Zero. It’s all gaslighting. 🤥
Scrandon | 18 hours ago
Zero. Trump just says he did it and they sit in the dark applauding him.
Koshindan | 16 hours ago
"What a luminary!"
"What's a loo man arry?"
Amporer | 14 hours ago
Or in the case of my grandmother, she’ll just get a box of bulbs and almost scream “COME GET THESE LIGHT BUBZ AND FIX THIS SHIT ASS THING!” and won’t stop until someone changes it for her. And why is that? Because she somehow has better things to do than one of the simplest tasks that exists. Oh, and those better things to do? It’s praising Trump and literally hoping he seizes every bit of power he can get to take total control of the government to impose martial law and “get rid” of every democrat and everyone that ever voted for them.
vulgrin | 8 hours ago
Even worse, they give the tariff money back to the companies who will keep it and use it to make their owners richer.
They LITERALLY STOLE FROM THE POOR TO GIVE TO THE RICH.
Fuck anyone who says Republicans are better at handling the economy.
ScoffersGonnaScoff | 17 hours ago
No consumer protection and price gouging, anti competitive practices, price floors….. and next …oil shock.
No-Double-Trouble | 14 hours ago
I want these voters to go bankrupt. Literally each of them and their whole generation.
findingmike | 4 hours ago
Many invested in Trump ventures and lost their shirts. I saw an article that said $7 billion in losses.
listentomenow | 8 hours ago
At what point do we not hold people accountable? It's not like tariffs being a tax was some giant secret.
You, me, your grandma, everyone knows that if Biden imposed the same tariffs, they would've lost their minds.
So what the hell are we supposed to do with that? When deep down, for some reason, as long as Donald is making people on the left mad, then Trump voters feel like they're winning.
dpzdpz | 15 hours ago
I'd love to buy more stuff. Love, love, love, love. But I open my wallet and moths come out. And *they're* tied to the Yen.
kent_eh | 7 hours ago
> This is becasue Trump lied to the American people
It's as much because those people trusted Trump, even after he spent 4 years lying to their faces.
bsfurr | 10 hours ago
I’m surrounded by family members who consistently live outside of their means. They’re buying trucks they can’t afford, overpriced real estate, where they’ll be upside down if the market collapses. Most people are pretty dumb. And that’s what’s gonna make the next financial collapse worse than we could ever imagine.
Either_Reflection_78 | 9 hours ago
Prepare for the most extreme retail apocalypse you have ever seen. Also, prepare for the housing market to Fk a lot of people up. Don’t plan on selling your place anytime soon. It’s not going to happen for a very long time. Just hold it and see what happens in the future.
cruzer86 | 6 hours ago
Go outside
Resident_Window_9369 | 18 hours ago
Would that include cutting spending on airfare and cruises? Because that doesn’t seem to be the case at all. Even grocery shopping at Costco is packed. That place doesn’t seem to be a cost saver like it used to be.
calm-phil | 13 hours ago
K shaped economy? Costco is a more up market brand than say, Wall Mart. The bottom third of the economy are not flying at all and middle third is not flying much unless it is necessary. I am below the bottom half line and I sure as shit am not flying anywhere.
Resident_Window_9369 | 5 hours ago
There is no doubt a divide in the economy. The rich definitely keeping prices elevated by constantly spending and paying whatever.
Early-Light-864 | 12 hours ago
The drop-off was .6%
That's not something you'd notice scanning the crowd. That's one less item in the cart at Costco or not springing for extra legroom on the flight
Whaddduptho | 16 hours ago
NRF/CNBC says otherwise.
And unlike BLS data the NRF tracks actual credit and debit card data as opposed to relying on subjective surveys.
https://nrf.com/research-insights/center-retail-consumer-insights/cnbc-nrf-retail-monitor
Maneruko | 7 hours ago
As a metric for how well I'm doing personally in terms of finances. I have little to no bills or expenses but even then I've had to resort to eating one maybe two cans of chicken breast for lunch every day to save money while I'm out at work. For the same amount of money I could've gone to an actual restraint. Kind of messed up ngl.
Pope-Le-Pew | an hour ago
People are saving a dollar here, a dollar there. I noticed fewer people at grocery stores and less items in carts. Now I have observed more people in my neighborhood getting Amazon groceries. I have saved a lot. No more $2.50 ea bellpeppers at the "local" chain for me. I just get meats and dairy at grocery stores now, but that will change when the weather gets colder.
variegated68409 | 7 hours ago
Zoom out, it's immaterial. Doomers once again fixating on nonsense. Face facts: the economy is booming and things have never been better for Americans. My tall and handsome friends, of which there are many, have all seen (without exception) incredible growths in earned income and net worth. Rapid and sustained career advancement continues to be a feature of life, for those of us who apply ourselves. Prudent investors are seeing tremendous returns on portfolios, to the extent that 15% annual returns are the baseline expectation.
YamborginiLow | 5 hours ago
Americans are so wealthy now that they got tired of buying stuff and are now cutting back
variegated68409 | 5 hours ago
This guy gets it, and it also explains lower labor force participation. Many of us are doing so well that employment is no longer necessary. We choose to gracefully exit the labor force and instead turn to our enormous and nearly inexhaustible investment portfolios (which are not uncommon.)
YamborginiLow | 5 hours ago
You know, I want to point out that the participation rate for 19-54 hasn’t really budged despite this, however amount of people in part time work has increased. I guess due to strong investment portfolios people don’t need a full time job with benefits anymore.
biscuitarse | 5 hours ago
> My tall and handsome friends, of which there are many, have all seen (without exception) incredible growths in earned income and net worth.
You either have an aversion to using the /s designation or you're crazy as fuck. Either way, entertaining anecdote.
Falloutvictim | 7 hours ago
Unironically this, at least in my social bubble. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but most of my IRL peers (older Millenial white collar professionals) are doing quite well.
calm-phil | 12 hours ago
Fiscal responsibility from the lower, middle and upper middle class? You love to see it. Unless of course you are relying on retail markets. Savings rates too high can cause obvious problems. We have seen that playing out in several large economies over the last 30-40 years. Companies will have to innovate and make a more compelling product to pull back consumers.
I did not see any comments on the insane prices of electronics lately. The supercomputer build-outs are sucking the chips, labor, production capacity, even the direction of research. People may be keeping their phones longer.
That's the life advice that has been handed down for generations as gospel. I like to believe in the idea and it seems to work mostly, most [a majority] of the time. If we are fearful of left wing populism, the 'have nots' need to feel like they can afford to spend. Feeling less fearful of eviction or bodily damage, people will move more money.
Spending on services is up. That's what all the cool kids do. They do stuff, not so much buy stuff. Younger people are not big on being sinners. Curated wholesome is in. It's great on the 'Gram.