I think the question for the last decade has been what comes after Trump.
Yes, he has done incalculable damage, but once he is gone, and that may be sooner than the end of his term, what then?
Does it lead to mini-Trumps who continue this? Or is there an AOC/Bernie/Mamdani swing toward something very different? Or do we go back to the same typical Dem/GOP range that we had before Trump?
I'm genuinely not sure, but in the last 9 months if you look at polling and who is winning primaries, it looks like the AOC/Bernie/Mamdani option has a real chance of happening. That could mean that "The American Age is Over" type of of handwringing is wrong, or at least that what emerges is very different and not altogether bad.
Of course, things could still get much, much worse. I'm not counting on any good outcomes here, just noting that there are ways this plays out that could be surprisingly positive.
One can't help but wonder what would have happened in that sliding doors moment back in 2016 when Hillary won the nomination, not Bernie. Bernie was leading in the head-to-head polls against Trump at that point. It's reasonable to think that he may have beaten him in the general election if he had gotten the nomination. Perhaps we end up in a similar place politically, a decade or so later, just much more weary, bloody, and beaten down - though wiser.
The real question isn’t “what’s after trump” but “what’s after ‘after trump’?”
Everyone thought trump 1 was a fluke. A convergence of unlikely events. Biden was a return to the norm, proof that America was still normal, etc.
Then it happened again. There is no reason to discount the idea that president AOC won’t be followed by president Vance. The rest of the world simply cannot trust America to be stable long term.
And the worst outcome is his equally unintelligent and awful children will start running for elected positions. The grift will never end unless someone goes to jail and the money is taken back.
>it looks like the AOC/Bernie/Mamdani option has a real chance of happening. That could mean that "The American Age is Over" type of of handwringing is wrong
I don't understand why you think AOC/Bernie/Mamdani would have an impact on whether or not the American age continues. American hegemony wasn't about being likeable. It was about power and being trustworthy. I know a lot people, many of them Americans, roll their eyes at the idea of the US as trustworthy, but flawed as the US is, that was a huge factor. Up until very recently, the US was relatively non-corrupt.
The idea that it is hand wringing to say the American Age is over really underplays the fact that Trump has doubled the deficit and Canada may be joining the EU. The US is in real trouble right now. If Congress doesn't flip, I think things could get very, very, very bad.
There is a lot I like about Bernie, AOC and Mamdani, but I don't see any of them as saviors. They are all people with very limited experience actually creating change. None of them have shown an ability to build bridges the way Obama did. Or even the way Bill Clinton did.
>One can't help but wonder what would have happened in that sliding doors moment back in 2016 when Hillary won the nomination, not Bernie.
I can't with this line of reasoning. Trump was never expected to win. I think his victory is combination of television fame, sexism and backlash to globalism (also seen in Brexit). I don't think Bernie could have beaten him.
A lot of Trump supporters were the lower end of intelligence Bernie voters. Trump advertised himself that way when Hillary took the seat. It screwed Democrats either way.
While this was inevitable, it could have lasted another generation (or maybe even two, if Bush hadn't invaded Iraq) without Trump. It's been obvious for a minute that the US hadn't reckoned with the changes in warfare, but still could have kept that in more of a "maybe they haven't" status than the pantsing we've had with Iran.
Solid article but the briefly mentioned shift of South Korea building closer ties with China could lead someone to believe it's a big shift, but in reality there has been no real shift in how South Korea views China. China has propped up North Korea for decades and South Korea is under no illusions that China is a trustworthy ally, they're just looking to make sure relations with China stay cordial and not to antagonize them needlessly.
Much more notable to me is the increasing military cooperation between South Korea and Japan given the decades long brutal occupation of South Korea until Japan surrendered and world war 2 ended. Despite that history South Korea and Japan have become closer in an attempt to deter Chinese aggression underlining that any apparent shift in South Korea's relations with China is mostly lip service and not some dramatic change in policy.
The Techbros, the Oligarchs, the Climate Denialists, the Petro-gougers, the Christian Nationalists, the Faux-Libertarians, the Rand-Friedman crossover Cosplayers...
Basically anyone who dislikes having their overweening self indulgence tempered in anyway for the greater good.
If you live in country that belongs to NATO you should very much care as a big part of what keeps you secure was that the US was part of the alliance. And while I disagree with what a lot of the US does the fear of the US military and the fact they were so adamant they would defend their allies probably deterred countless attacks by others against a country in the alliance simply out of fear a globe spanning US military could get them no matter where they were.
But now Trump in Iran has shown that the American military has not adapted to the widespread availability of cheaper long range munitions and he's made it clear America might not support their allies. The American military looks more vulnerable than it has in decades and that it might not show up to fight anyway. And if you live in Europe, North America or other Western aligned nation that makes you less safe than you used to be. If you don't care about that it's your call....
It was always a myth. American power has always been Machiavellian in its application. We don’t need any more empires extracting wealth and resources from poorer nations, we need a world united and focused on mitigating our impending environmental catastrophe.
InnerKookaburra | 13 hours ago
I think the question for the last decade has been what comes after Trump.
Yes, he has done incalculable damage, but once he is gone, and that may be sooner than the end of his term, what then?
Does it lead to mini-Trumps who continue this? Or is there an AOC/Bernie/Mamdani swing toward something very different? Or do we go back to the same typical Dem/GOP range that we had before Trump?
I'm genuinely not sure, but in the last 9 months if you look at polling and who is winning primaries, it looks like the AOC/Bernie/Mamdani option has a real chance of happening. That could mean that "The American Age is Over" type of of handwringing is wrong, or at least that what emerges is very different and not altogether bad.
Of course, things could still get much, much worse. I'm not counting on any good outcomes here, just noting that there are ways this plays out that could be surprisingly positive.
One can't help but wonder what would have happened in that sliding doors moment back in 2016 when Hillary won the nomination, not Bernie. Bernie was leading in the head-to-head polls against Trump at that point. It's reasonable to think that he may have beaten him in the general election if he had gotten the nomination. Perhaps we end up in a similar place politically, a decade or so later, just much more weary, bloody, and beaten down - though wiser.
Supersamtheredditman | 12 hours ago
The real question isn’t “what’s after trump” but “what’s after ‘after trump’?”
Everyone thought trump 1 was a fluke. A convergence of unlikely events. Biden was a return to the norm, proof that America was still normal, etc.
Then it happened again. There is no reason to discount the idea that president AOC won’t be followed by president Vance. The rest of the world simply cannot trust America to be stable long term.
sabjsc | 12 hours ago
And the worst outcome is his equally unintelligent and awful children will start running for elected positions. The grift will never end unless someone goes to jail and the money is taken back.
elinordash | 4 hours ago
>it looks like the AOC/Bernie/Mamdani option has a real chance of happening. That could mean that "The American Age is Over" type of of handwringing is wrong
I don't understand why you think AOC/Bernie/Mamdani would have an impact on whether or not the American age continues. American hegemony wasn't about being likeable. It was about power and being trustworthy. I know a lot people, many of them Americans, roll their eyes at the idea of the US as trustworthy, but flawed as the US is, that was a huge factor. Up until very recently, the US was relatively non-corrupt.
The idea that it is hand wringing to say the American Age is over really underplays the fact that Trump has doubled the deficit and Canada may be joining the EU. The US is in real trouble right now. If Congress doesn't flip, I think things could get very, very, very bad.
There is a lot I like about Bernie, AOC and Mamdani, but I don't see any of them as saviors. They are all people with very limited experience actually creating change. None of them have shown an ability to build bridges the way Obama did. Or even the way Bill Clinton did.
>One can't help but wonder what would have happened in that sliding doors moment back in 2016 when Hillary won the nomination, not Bernie.
I can't with this line of reasoning. Trump was never expected to win. I think his victory is combination of television fame, sexism and backlash to globalism (also seen in Brexit). I don't think Bernie could have beaten him.
objstandpt | 41 minutes ago
A lot of Trump supporters were the lower end of intelligence Bernie voters. Trump advertised himself that way when Hillary took the seat. It screwed Democrats either way.
brockhopper | 14 hours ago
While this was inevitable, it could have lasted another generation (or maybe even two, if Bush hadn't invaded Iraq) without Trump. It's been obvious for a minute that the US hadn't reckoned with the changes in warfare, but still could have kept that in more of a "maybe they haven't" status than the pantsing we've had with Iran.
zoobrix | 10 hours ago
Solid article but the briefly mentioned shift of South Korea building closer ties with China could lead someone to believe it's a big shift, but in reality there has been no real shift in how South Korea views China. China has propped up North Korea for decades and South Korea is under no illusions that China is a trustworthy ally, they're just looking to make sure relations with China stay cordial and not to antagonize them needlessly.
Much more notable to me is the increasing military cooperation between South Korea and Japan given the decades long brutal occupation of South Korea until Japan surrendered and world war 2 ended. Despite that history South Korea and Japan have become closer in an attempt to deter Chinese aggression underlining that any apparent shift in South Korea's relations with China is mostly lip service and not some dramatic change in policy.
DanoPinyon | 17 hours ago
America's enemies are taking down the hegemon.
[edit: voice dicktaters]
latswipe | 15 hours ago
who are americas enemies
pettsvaldo | 15 hours ago
The Techbros, the Oligarchs, the Climate Denialists, the Petro-gougers, the Christian Nationalists, the Faux-Libertarians, the Rand-Friedman crossover Cosplayers... Basically anyone who dislikes having their overweening self indulgence tempered in anyway for the greater good.
DanoPinyon | 15 hours ago
Russia, China, Israel, KSA, North Korea...
latswipe | 14 hours ago
Israel and KSA are traditionally US allies. which list does India fall onto?
DanoPinyon | 14 hours ago
Why don't you tell us what my list is missing instead of asking me questions.
latswipe | 14 hours ago
america's one true enemy is Americans
DanoPinyon | 14 hours ago
Weak play. Hopefully you'll get enough potatoes with this engagement to feed your family.
latswipe | 13 hours ago
we don't like potatoes.
latswipe | 15 hours ago
interesting choices for your list. who would be the next after your ellipses?
DanoPinyon | 15 hours ago
I don't think about it that much to have a longer list.
wesleydumont | 13 hours ago
[ Removed by Reddit ]
wesleydumont | 13 hours ago
And Epstein…
Konradleijon | 11 hours ago
Who cares
zoobrix | 10 hours ago
If you live in country that belongs to NATO you should very much care as a big part of what keeps you secure was that the US was part of the alliance. And while I disagree with what a lot of the US does the fear of the US military and the fact they were so adamant they would defend their allies probably deterred countless attacks by others against a country in the alliance simply out of fear a globe spanning US military could get them no matter where they were.
But now Trump in Iran has shown that the American military has not adapted to the widespread availability of cheaper long range munitions and he's made it clear America might not support their allies. The American military looks more vulnerable than it has in decades and that it might not show up to fight anyway. And if you live in Europe, North America or other Western aligned nation that makes you less safe than you used to be. If you don't care about that it's your call....
pomod | 6 hours ago
It was always a myth. American power has always been Machiavellian in its application. We don’t need any more empires extracting wealth and resources from poorer nations, we need a world united and focused on mitigating our impending environmental catastrophe.
LifeAdvertising9659 | 9 hours ago
dont worry man none of this will affect your ability to beat off to anime