At the end of the day, the intersection between furries and computer people is remarkably large, so I have no doubts this will end up funded and we're about to see a lot of new vanity furry pages. Good on them.
Indeed, we're aware of the similarities; as far as I can tell, we each came up with the idea independently. We've been in contact a few times over the last 6 months as they applied to the ASP, and wish them the best of luck with their fundraising campaign and application.
Back in late 80’s through the 90’s there was a ton of anthropomorphic animal art in the Amiga scene: Eric Schwartz’s Amy the Squirrel would regularly be featured on the cover of Amiga Format and there would be short animations distributed on cover disks and on Aminet, etc.
I’m not in the furry community and back then I didn’t even know such a thing existed. I just lived my life assuming that was “the Amiga animation style” or whatever, since it was so prominent.
Anyway after I got older and knew more about the world I was like “ohhhhhh, that makes so much more sense now.”
Hah, back in the day I was a huge Eric Schwartz fan. But I only learned about furries relatively recently. (I dunno, 10 years ago? It did become a more mainstream well-known thing at some point, right?) I had never connected the dots myself.
The mentioned ICANN Application Support Program "intended to make applying for a new gTLD or operating a registry more accessible to applicants who would be otherwise unable due to financial and resource constraints".
And (for practical purposes) TLDs are a scarce resource, you probably don't want too many of them, so the fact that so many gTLDs exist anyway suggests that the market is willing to stomach $250k a pop.
I don't understand why you'd want fewer of them? I want better gTLDs! Ideally without ICANN monopolizing the process, but still. We get .zip which is just horrendous from a security standpoint, but community groups of useful folks proposing reasonable gTLDs still have to come up with a quarter-million United States Freedombucks to apply?
Regarding ICANN’s monopoly, a global shared namespace has to have some kind of central organization to manage it. (And though the crypto bros want to implement that organization in code and pretend it doesn’t exist, they are deluding themselves.) When thinking about how a rootless graph naming system might work, I came to the conclusion that it would probably grow something like the root cert programmes, but for TLDs instead of x.509, with something like the CA/Browser forum to co-ordinate them. Whether that forum would be better or worse than ICANN is imponderable…
I think @fanf was saying that .COM (1), .pl (Perl), and .sh (shell script) are also file extensions, though I'd argue that .zip is the most common of the file extensions that overlap TLDs.
I guess so, but .sh and the such already require computer knowledge to the point you are less susceptible to confusing them unlike .zip which is an extremely common file extension
Having a central agency does have advantages, and your points stand well. I still dislike the way ICANN has managed the process with regard to pricing and democratization, and they're the only game in town, which is bothersome to me. I do not have an alternative to replace it with, though.
It's defined in the individual Registry-Registrar Agreements, but the registrar (TLD) earns a "wholesale fee" of $1-10 per domain registered by each registrar (the customer-facing company, like DNSimple, GoDaddy, etc.). I did a quick search and didn't turn up a draft for .furry, but I'd guess from the community vibes that they want to be on the low end. The back of the envelope calculation is the setup fees amortized by the expected wholesale fees; their costs will be marketing and fees to a Registry Service Provider (keeps the registry db online; I worked at one of these ages ago).
.furry wants to be a generic top-level domain (gTLD). Those are overseen by ICANN, which has an application process that organizations work through to demonstrate that they have some reasonable expectation of use and can plausibly meet the technical requirements. You can read about this ASP program in detail for a good idea of what that looks like.
ICANN occasionally opens up applications to run new TLDs; applications are open right now https://www.new-tld.com/
There are a bunch of financial, legal, and technical requirements that I won’t get in to. The organization that is granted the TLD can keep it private or can lease 2LDs through ICANN’s accredited DNS registrars.
The usual reason for wanting a TLD is to collect 2LD rents. The previous new TLD programme was very large and many of them were not financially successful. There were a lot of unrealistic expectations about how desirable domain names in new TLDs would be, and even many years later most people aren’t aware there are hundreds and hundreds of them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_top-level_domains
I had the great pleasure of visiting Pawprint Prototyping last year. The scope and execution of their physical space is phenomenal, and I treasured the one evening I got to spend there; their efforts have directly inspired me and mine in my local furry community to pursue similar (though less insanely ambitious) community building goals.
If you're ever in the city of san jose, I would encourage anyone to reach out for a visit and see what it's like when a small queer community builds a space for themselves from the ground up. Of all the many gags and in jokes written (sometimes literally) into the walls of the space, I think my favorite is still "large cartoon straws, for cartoons [read: fursuits]".
With that experience in mind this endeavor is wholly unsurprising and I will totally support them. https://nocoffei.com is decidedly un-furry, but nocoffei.furry would be a fantastic alternate domain for my fluffier side :3
Will this start a trend towards hyperspecific community TLDs? Will ICANN have to start seriously considering the social and political implications of some TLD? I'm sure they do already given TLDs such as .spreadbetting, but I don't think I've seen a group/community focused TLD like this before. I can imagine a future TLD request being rejected and such a group taking ICANN to U.S. court for violating their free speech or civil liberties or whatever... Interesting development
I'm not opposed to it, I hate DNS and hope the very idea of TLDs goes away in the future. I just think there's something different to a community, like furries, than there is to what I thought pretty much all TLDs are, businesses and such - but .mormon makes the case that this isn't an escalation so I guess it's fine.
There is no real problem with hyper-specific TLDs - the more the merrier. I say this as someone who runs his blog from a .horse domain despite having no interest in horses, I just thought it was amusing.
Oh, I tried to get a funny .horse domain like bad.horse, dead.horse, stalking.horse, etc. Although the .horse TLD had only been open a week or two all the good domains were taken, mostly by squatters. I am happy with what I ended up with (unique enough to get a reaction) though.
It’s going to be interesting to see what funny domains come from the .furry TLD.
Reminder that Anthrocon is coming up in a few weeks, one of the largest furry gatherings on the planet and also a hive of tech workers and indie hackers. Might be a good time to solicit donations.
I've always been genuinely curious about why there are so many Furries in the tech world, but too afraid to ask for fear of causing some unintended offense. The ones I have met (out of suit) have usually been pretty vibrant and intelligent people, whereas I find tech to be immensly soul-crushing, but perhaps I'm in the wrong arm of it.
Also because furries are "a community" only in the loosest sense. There is no centralized organization that are "the furries", it's anyone who likes anthropomorphized animals (hell, people don't even necessarily agree on that much...) and identifies as such. It'd be like asking "why isn't there a single website for plumbers?" It just doesn't make sense.
I understand that the "community" of furries is only very loosely organized. But I do not understand why having a top-level domain is better for a group that shares a common interest. One could use a website because it was fun and allowed self-expression, or one could have a top level domain that was fun and allowed self-expression. Why is one of these better than the other? (The website is cheaper and simpler, so that's a win if there's no argument on the other side.)
You do not want a single website to control what is okay to publish or talk about.
For instance, whether adult art is allowed or not; the “level of furriness” of the content (human bodies with animal features vs. animal bodies with human features); whether purely human content is banned; whether only one quadrant of the political compass is allowed or not.
Apple is found at "https://www.apple.com/" not "https://www.apple". Google uses Greenland's ".gl" domain for their URL shortener, but all their regular properties are found at URLs like ".com" or ".co.uk".
The apt comparison is with subdomains. You could register furry.com, if it was available, and allow people to register subdomains.
This is different to a website; with a furry.com website, I can't really allow others to publish stuff independently, with subdomains I can.
So that does the TLD give you?
Well, all TLDs are run by someone who says what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. For example, the .cat TLD is meant for Catalan stuff, but right now they allow basically anything, including cat (feline) related stuff. But tomorrow they could decide to change the rules and expel anyone who does not comply, leading to massive headaches.
With a TLD there's somewhat more control. Still, ICANN oversees the TLDs and I guess they could destroy one if they wanted, but there's not so much precedent there. However, there have been ICANN controversies, there's why some people advocate for alternate root domains. (For example, https://opennic.org/.)
I typically only wear my fursuit to the office summer party + halloween, but use furry art / photos of me in fursuit as my avatar on work tools. Similar with my other furry colleagues.
I don't want to speak for the entire community, but I'm pretty sure it would be pretty impractical to wear one while you work :v
I don't have a fursuit, but if I had one I'd probably only really wear it sporadically… from what I've heard it can get pretty hot inside, and I can't imagine typing on a keyboard with giant fluffy paws on LOL
From what I've seen on Fedi people only tend to wear them to take photos or go to events.
nemin | 14 days ago
At the end of the day, the intersection between furries and computer people is remarkably large, so I have no doubts this will end up funded and we're about to see a lot of new vanity furry pages. Good on them.
Exagone313 | 14 days ago
There is a similar project for .meow (for which the funding has ended).
thequux | 14 days ago
Indeed, we're aware of the similarities; as far as I can tell, we each came up with the idea independently. We've been in contact a few times over the last 6 months as they applied to the ASP, and wish them the best of luck with their fundraising campaign and application.
jrandomhacker | 14 days ago
Similar-enough that I'm actually side-eye-ing this one just a little bit, in spite of it being something that I'd normally be all-in to support.
oceanhaiyang | 14 days ago
Why
lorddimwit | 14 days ago
This is only tangentially related but…
Back in late 80’s through the 90’s there was a ton of anthropomorphic animal art in the Amiga scene: Eric Schwartz’s Amy the Squirrel would regularly be featured on the cover of Amiga Format and there would be short animations distributed on cover disks and on Aminet, etc.
I’m not in the furry community and back then I didn’t even know such a thing existed. I just lived my life assuming that was “the Amiga animation style” or whatever, since it was so prominent.
Anyway after I got older and knew more about the world I was like “ohhhhhh, that makes so much more sense now.”
[OP] Aks | 14 days ago
Fun fact, Eric Schwartz still draws things :D
koala | 14 days ago
Hah, back in the day I was a huge Eric Schwartz fan. But I only learned about furries relatively recently. (I dunno, 10 years ago? It did become a more mainstream well-known thing at some point, right?) I had never connected the dots myself.
pushcx | 14 days ago
The mentioned ICANN Application Support Program "intended to make applying for a new gTLD or operating a registry more accessible to applicants who would be otherwise unable due to financial and resource constraints".
ocramz | 14 days ago
without this, 250k usd to set up a TLD. I wonder what justifies the cost.
radex | 14 days ago
The fact that ICANN has a monopoly on TLDs.
And (for practical purposes) TLDs are a scarce resource, you probably don't want too many of them, so the fact that so many gTLDs exist anyway suggests that the market is willing to stomach $250k a pop.
LuminantJess | 14 days ago
I don't understand why you'd want fewer of them? I want better gTLDs! Ideally without ICANN monopolizing the process, but still. We get
.zipwhich is just horrendous from a security standpoint, but community groups of useful folks proposing reasonable gTLDs still have to come up with a quarter-million United States Freedombucks to apply?fanf | 14 days ago
.zip is no worse than .com or .pl or .sh
Regarding ICANN’s monopoly, a global shared namespace has to have some kind of central organization to manage it. (And though the crypto bros want to implement that organization in code and pretend it doesn’t exist, they are deluding themselves.) When thinking about how a rootless graph naming system might work, I came to the conclusion that it would probably grow something like the root cert programmes, but for TLDs instead of x.509, with something like the CA/Browser forum to co-ordinate them. Whether that forum would be better or worse than ICANN is imponderable…
Jan200101 | 14 days ago
.zip is far worse because it creates confusion with the .zip extension for end users
abrambleninja | 14 days ago
I think @fanf was saying that .COM (1), .pl (Perl), and .sh (shell script) are also file extensions, though I'd argue that .zip is the most common of the file extensions that overlap TLDs.
Jan200101 | 14 days ago
I guess so, but .sh and the such already require computer knowledge to the point you are less susceptible to confusing them unlike .zip which is an extremely common file extension
LuminantJess | 14 days ago
Just to be clear on the .zip gTLD security issue, it's been documented extensively.
Having a central agency does have advantages, and your points stand well. I still dislike the way ICANN has managed the process with regard to pricing and democratization, and they're the only game in town, which is bothersome to me. I do not have an alternative to replace it with, though.
pushcx | 14 days ago
It's defined in the individual Registry-Registrar Agreements, but the registrar (TLD) earns a "wholesale fee" of $1-10 per domain registered by each registrar (the customer-facing company, like DNSimple, GoDaddy, etc.). I did a quick search and didn't turn up a draft for .furry, but I'd guess from the community vibes that they want to be on the low end. The back of the envelope calculation is the setup fees amortized by the expected wholesale fees; their costs will be marketing and fees to a Registry Service Provider (keeps the registry db online; I worked at one of these ages ago).
fanf | 14 days ago
The $250k is in addition to all that. It goes to ICANN to fund the new TLD programme and IANA.
oceanhaiyang | 14 days ago
Who gets to own a a top level domain? I mean would this give this organization the right to charge anyone for that TLD?
pushcx | 14 days ago
.furry wants to be a generic top-level domain (gTLD). Those are overseen by ICANN, which has an application process that organizations work through to demonstrate that they have some reasonable expectation of use and can plausibly meet the technical requirements. You can read about this ASP program in detail for a good idea of what that looks like.
fanf | 14 days ago
ICANN occasionally opens up applications to run new TLDs; applications are open right now https://www.new-tld.com/
There are a bunch of financial, legal, and technical requirements that I won’t get in to. The organization that is granted the TLD can keep it private or can lease 2LDs through ICANN’s accredited DNS registrars.
The usual reason for wanting a TLD is to collect 2LD rents. The previous new TLD programme was very large and many of them were not financially successful. There were a lot of unrealistic expectations about how desirable domain names in new TLDs would be, and even many years later most people aren’t aware there are hundreds and hundreds of them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_top-level_domains
nocoffei | 14 days ago
I had the great pleasure of visiting Pawprint Prototyping last year. The scope and execution of their physical space is phenomenal, and I treasured the one evening I got to spend there; their efforts have directly inspired me and mine in my local furry community to pursue similar (though less insanely ambitious) community building goals.
If you're ever in the city of san jose, I would encourage anyone to reach out for a visit and see what it's like when a small queer community builds a space for themselves from the ground up. Of all the many gags and in jokes written (sometimes literally) into the walls of the space, I think my favorite is still "large cartoon straws, for cartoons [read: fursuits]".
With that experience in mind this endeavor is wholly unsurprising and I will totally support them. https://nocoffei.com is decidedly un-furry, but nocoffei.furry would be a fantastic alternate domain for my fluffier side :3
thirdtruck | 14 days ago
Awoo!
[OP] Aks | 14 days ago
I'm personally waiting for .scalie or .lizard
thirdtruck | 14 days ago
Yes please! And
.birb.Diti | 14 days ago
Not going to happen, but I would definitely jump on the occasion.
[OP] Aks | 14 days ago
Lobsters furry club when
nocoffei | 14 days ago
Arf!
WilhelmVonWeiner | 14 days ago
Will this start a trend towards hyperspecific community TLDs? Will ICANN have to start seriously considering the social and political implications of some TLD? I'm sure they do already given TLDs such as
.spreadbetting, but I don't think I've seen a group/community focused TLD like this before. I can imagine a future TLD request being rejected and such a group taking ICANN to U.S. court for violating their free speech or civil liberties or whatever... Interesting developmentkwas | 14 days ago
That trend started ages ago, eg.
.army,.moe,.rugby,.plumbingall are very specific.I believe ICANN cares about filling its budget first and foremost.
mtset | 14 days ago
We already have
.mormonand.poker, among many others. I don't see why this particular community is an escalation in specificity.WilhelmVonWeiner | 14 days ago
I'm not opposed to it, I hate DNS and hope the very idea of TLDs goes away in the future. I just think there's something different to a community, like furries, than there is to what I thought pretty much all TLDs are, businesses and such - but
.mormonmakes the case that this isn't an escalation so I guess it's fine.JulianSildenLanglo | 13 days ago
What would you want to use instead of DNS?
kwas | 13 days ago
DNS as type of protocol is irreplaceable. DNS as root zones as diktated by IANA/ICANN have some projects that want to change the landscape:
https://handshake.org/ https://ens.domains/ https://unstoppabledomains.com/
hoistbypetard | 14 days ago
I've had a .fyi for a while, which is also a definite community thing.
AndrewStephens | 14 days ago
There is no real problem with hyper-specific TLDs - the more the merrier. I say this as someone who runs his blog from a .horse domain despite having no interest in horses, I just thought it was amusing.
lorddimwit | 14 days ago
You gotta try to set up a Bad Horse traceroute/rDNS thing.
AndrewStephens | 14 days ago
Oh, I tried to get a funny .horse domain like bad.horse, dead.horse, stalking.horse, etc. Although the .horse TLD had only been open a week or two all the good domains were taken, mostly by squatters. I am happy with what I ended up with (unique enough to get a reaction) though.
It’s going to be interesting to see what funny domains come from the .furry TLD.
binarycleric | 14 days ago
Reminder that Anthrocon is coming up in a few weeks, one of the largest furry gatherings on the planet and also a hive of tech workers and indie hackers. Might be a good time to solicit donations.
janus | 14 days ago
Is this related to the complaints about .gay I see on Wikipedia?
eyesinthefire | 14 days ago
My understanding is that
.meowis, but this one is unrelated.nposting | 14 days ago
tinsmith | 13 days ago
I've always been genuinely curious about why there are so many Furries in the tech world, but too afraid to ask for fear of causing some unintended offense. The ones I have met (out of suit) have usually been pretty vibrant and intelligent people, whereas I find tech to be immensly soul-crushing, but perhaps I'm in the wrong arm of it.
hoistbypetard | 13 days ago
Reading @soatok ‘s posts on furry fandom might be informative:
https://soatok.blog/category/furry-fandom/
It was for me. Especially this one:
https://soatok.blog/2021/06/02/why-furries-make-excellent-hackers/
mcherm | 14 days ago
Can someone explain to me why a community would want a TLD rather than a website (and perhaps one with a directory of other sites?
nemin | 14 days ago
Because it's fun and allows self expression.
Also because furries are "a community" only in the loosest sense. There is no centralized organization that are "the furries", it's anyone who likes anthropomorphized animals (hell, people don't even necessarily agree on that much...) and identifies as such. It'd be like asking "why isn't there a single website for plumbers?" It just doesn't make sense.
mcherm | 14 days ago
I understand that the "community" of furries is only very loosely organized. But I do not understand why having a top-level domain is better for a group that shares a common interest. One could use a website because it was fun and allowed self-expression, or one could have a top level domain that was fun and allowed self-expression. Why is one of these better than the other? (The website is cheaper and simpler, so that's a win if there's no argument on the other side.)
Diti | 14 days ago
A TLD allows for emancipation.
You do not want a single website to control what is okay to publish or talk about.
For instance, whether adult art is allowed or not; the “level of furriness” of the content (human bodies with animal features vs. animal bodies with human features); whether purely human content is banned; whether only one quadrant of the political compass is allowed or not.
Decentralization is important.
FedericoSchonborn | 14 days ago
Why would companies and organizations want TLDs (.com, .net, .org, etc.) rather than a website?
mcherm | 14 days ago
They don't!
Apple is found at "https://www.apple.com/" not "https://www.apple". Google uses Greenland's ".gl" domain for their URL shortener, but all their regular properties are found at URLs like ".com" or ".co.uk".
pta2002 | 14 days ago
To be fair google does make relatively common use of their .google TLD e.g. https://blog.google
koala | 14 days ago
The apt comparison is with subdomains. You could register furry.com, if it was available, and allow people to register subdomains.
This is different to a website; with a furry.com website, I can't really allow others to publish stuff independently, with subdomains I can.
So that does the TLD give you?
Well, all TLDs are run by someone who says what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. For example, the .cat TLD is meant for Catalan stuff, but right now they allow basically anything, including cat (feline) related stuff. But tomorrow they could decide to change the rules and expel anyone who does not comply, leading to massive headaches.
With a TLD there's somewhat more control. Still, ICANN oversees the TLDs and I guess they could destroy one if they wanted, but there's not so much precedent there. However, there have been ICANN controversies, there's why some people advocate for alternate root domains. (For example, https://opennic.org/.)
alper | 13 days ago
I'm not in the USA so maybe I'm not super up to date on this suff. Do people in your workplaces wear these costumes?
Diti | 13 days ago
In server rooms, maybe they do!
fpbgg | 13 days ago
I haven't seen it and I've been in tech for over 20 years
(That said, coworkers do wear them to social events after hours)
unlobito | 13 days ago
(I'm also not in the USA)
I typically only wear my fursuit to the office summer party + halloween, but use furry art / photos of me in fursuit as my avatar on work tools. Similar with my other furry colleagues.
https://lobi.to/writes/thewolfcostume/ has some thoughts I wrote up on this a few years ago.
riki | 13 days ago
I don't want to speak for the entire community, but I'm pretty sure it would be pretty impractical to wear one while you work :v
I don't have a fursuit, but if I had one I'd probably only really wear it sporadically… from what I've heard it can get pretty hot inside, and I can't imagine typing on a keyboard with giant fluffy paws on LOL
From what I've seen on Fedi people only tend to wear them to take photos or go to events.
(Also furries don't only exist in the US!)