The piece that doesn’t fit, in this case, is the price. Someone who only has a phone to handle the digital demands of modern life, almost by definition, doesn’t have more the money to spend on a foldable phone, no matter how good it is. If they had that, they would have bought a laptop or tablet long before.
The question remains: who are foldable phones for? The only profile left is that of show-offs. Which might even be a good thing — the iPhone Duo as an identifier of unpleasant people. See one in someone’s hands? Run, it’s a trap!
I don't quite mind you posting your blog posts here, but this one was kind of reaching to the point that it feels like bait rather than sincere. The most obvious customer is the one with disposable income who's willing to pay more for some additional convenience.
I had an iPad Mini that I gave away because I never used it. Every time I wanted to use it, like when I spontaneously found myself enjoying some quiet time at a cafe, it was never on me. So when I go to buy a new phone and tablet, which will cost ~$1000+$600, I'll find myself wondering why I don't just pay another $400 and get something more usable.
Replying to self: I am packing for a flight right now, but this is my first time traveling with a CPAP and it's taking up a lot of space. I have to remove my personal laptop to get everything to fit (I also have my work laptop). I would love a large screen with me on this trip because I have some real estate crap to deal with. A Duo would be perfect here. I already travel with a Roost V3, folding bluetooth keyboard, and trackpad for use with the work laptop; could easily use the same setup with a Duo.
Out of curiosity, why not just ditch the laptop stand, keyboard and track pad? Obviously it's not a massive space savings, but it's not nothing either and seems rather extraneous, somewhat defeating the point of a laptop?
Or perhaps there's a more compact stand where you could continue to use the laptops built in keyboard and track pad?
Great question! I typically do work just from a laptop but lately I've been feeling some back pains, so on this trip I want to have a better setup. I'll be working for a week from Chicago. The travel setup is about as small as I can get it; the stands that keep me using the laptop keyboard while elevating the screen end up flexing my wrists unnaturally.
Of these, the keyboard is just okay, the trackpad would be perfect if it had multiple connections, and the stand is awesome. I use the stand semi-permanently in the office.
On the statistical side, the Z fold 8 is selling very well. For reference, it’s sold more than the entire pixel 11 line COMBINED. The somewhat weird $1900 Foldable sold more than google’s flagship + budget model. So evidently the market is quite a big larger than the “clean reference android” market.
Globally, it’s particularly popular in China. Almost half of all foldable sales globally are in China.
Fold 8 has sold an estimate 2.9 million units, and the combined pixel 11 lineup has sold 2.5 million units. The entire fold lineup (including the fold 8 and the z-flip) sold 5.2 million units.
It’s not trivial, either. And the sales grow fast. Every galaxy gold has sold 30-50% more than the one before. The original fold only sold 500k units.
The fold lineup sold more than the iPhone 12 mini did in a quarter, much beloved on the internet, while being a much higher priced unit. If you could either sell 50k BMWs or 50k ford fiestas, you’d rather be selling 50k BMWs.
It’s particularly competitive in China, where Huawei and Oppo have their own folding phones that are popular and sell well domestically.
I asked my friend yesterday if he'd pre-ordered the Duo as a joke. And to my surprise he complained you can't pre-order it just yet and he plans to get one ASAP. I think they'll be moderately popular. Out of the price range of most people, but desirable enough for those with disposable income as both a showpiece and for the genuine convenience of having a folding tablet in your pocket. I've never owned an iPad because - unless you're an artist - it seems like a computer designed purely for wasting time on content consumption. But I could be tempted into getting a phone with an enhanced content consumption mode.
I preordered it. Used to work at the Apple store, friends there put me on the pre-pre-order list for when the system lets them. I think it's fun, and I can't wait to play with an iPhone that's not a candy bar for once.
I expect I’ll buy this sometime next year. I don’t have any “good” reason to get something like this—I’m not a power user, I don’t do work on my phone, I’m not someone who consumes a bunch of media on the go, etc—I just like niche tech I guess. For example, my current laptop is this wacky thing, not because it’s especially good at anything, nor because it particularly fits my use cases, it just makes me happy to have/use. The folding phones have always interested me in that way, which is why I‘ve ended up with both of the Surface Duos (which aren’t great as phones, I’ll admit), and why I’ll probably get this one (also called Duo…) at some point.
I imagine there are a decent number of other people who would buy a folding phone just because they think it’s interesting, rather than thinking it’s the most practical. Obviously that’s not enough for a market, and I’d assume that’s not the reasoning most people have for buying one.
I can dig that. Perhaps niche isn't how I would describe my tendencies, but I do appreciate pieces of tech that are out there or if they're pushing boundaries.
I must say that I appreciate a superb price to quality ratio more than I appreciate the extreme end of performance or price though. This results in most of my tech being a mix between well known established devices at a good price and rarer choices that see (sometimes unfairly) smaller market shares.
A €2000 phone is a bit much for my liking but I can totally understand the appeal of something that's niche and well made. If I were in the market for a foldable it wouldn't be outlandish to look at this one.
people who want the fanciest gadget who won't notice the price difference until it hits 5 figures (think: FAANG tech workers, finance workers, doctors, highly successful lawyers, etc)
people who are so utterly addicted to their phones that the price increase is worth it (essentially dopamine addicts who really need a stay in airplane mode rehab)
I suspect the first audience is large enough to sustain the product, given a 40-50% markup (better than the iPad or a Macbook, most likely)
I fall close to the first group, but with enough self-discipline, frugality, and skepticism of the current tech landscape that I'd never buy the Duo. However... if Apple released a phone with dual e-ink screens on the inside, I'd probably drop $3k on it because I'd love to combine my phone and ereader. And if someone released a Mini-sized phone again I'd pay damn near $5k just to have something that isn't the size of a brick swinging around in my pocket whenever I walk, or bike, or run, or sit down, or do damn near anything besides laying down hooked into the Matrix.
Love your dual/inside e-ink screen idea, but I’ll pitch you a slightly different, yet related concept: Colorful/regular screens on the large inside (as even color e-ink, once more widely available, won’t ever match e.g. OLED of course), with an e-ink display on the outside for “static-ish” displays like clock and calendar, and of course reading!
Reference point: The Russian YotaPhone 2 from 2014, which had two screens, one normal and one e-ink, just not foldable.
Apple has entered the foldable phone market. Which got me thinking about the audience for this kind of device — if there even is one. People who convince themselves that a phone that folds and costs double the most expensive conventional models is worth it. Do they exist?
I think the requirements in a phone for users that do most of their computing on a computer (ie, older people) is much different than the use cases of users who do most of their computer related tasks on a phone (increasingly, younger people).
If I need to fill out a resume, or pay a bill, or write an email longer than a couple of sentences, I'm not using my phone to do that. Touchscreens are a really terrible compromise that are a necessary tradeoff of input usability against screen real estate. I find them really frustrating to use, and I'm way more comfortable using a mouse and keyboard for anything requiring a lot of input.
There are a lot of people that don't feel that way, and it seems to be the case more as time goes on. There are a lot of people who don't own a computer of any kind except for their phone. They do everything on their phone, from reading news, to filling out job applications, paying bills, investing, writing and so on.
For those kinds of people, it might make sense to have a phone that can transition to having a gigantic screen.
For me, I just want something small that fits in my pocket, has decent battery life, and mostly gets out of my way.
I would never buy something like this in a million years. If I was forced to only use a phone for everything technology related though?
Maybe it becomes more appealing at that point.
What I don't understand is who is forcing these people to only use a phone.
For the price of the base Duo it is possible to buy an okay phone and a fine laptop and have a better experience with the benefit of being less exposed to the addictive properties of smartphones.
Only having a smartphone also carries an opportunity cost as it is terrible for anything besides consumption.
I don't think it's a matter of someone forcing them to use phones, it's that they're more comfortable using them.
A lot of young people just didn't grow up using computers. They've been able to theoretically do everything they needed to do on a smart phone their whole life, so they've never been really exposed to anything else. Makes sense that they wouldn't seek out a computer unless they were required to by a job or something. Even though doing any sort of long form input on a phone seems like torture to me, if it's all you've ever known, it probably feels normal.
Even as someone who grew up with computers and probably has something like 10 laptops + desktops in my house right now, I've fallen into the camp of people who tend to do almost everything on my phone. My phone is always on me, and I can always be in a comfortable position using it. I've just found more and more that if I can do something on my phone, I'll almost always prefer to do it there rather than get myself properly setup on a laptop. The main exceptions would be when using the terminal (or anything else that requires extensive typing) and gaming. (My main gripe with the form factor is just how big phones have gotten. So I'm not going to be one of the people racing to get a foldable, but I can understand why others would.)
Why should anyone force them to buy two devices instead? Having only one device is more convenient, less to carry around, less to charge, etc.
I enjoy having separate devices for different things, but I fully understand why people wouldn’t. If you do laptop type things on your devices a handful of times per year, just doing it on the device you have is probably better than having a separate device.
Ultimately it fills a niche in the marketplace, and is priced at an iPhone pro plus iPad Air, and can comfortably fill both roles for certain people. I don’t understand why people are so upset about the price. Just don’t buy it. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it.
I might get one. I moved off of ios to get an android foldable a couple years ago. I love having a foldavle for reading and gaming. The rest of my family is in the ios ecosystem still so it's worth consideration.
I’m assuming you’re based out of Brazil? If so I think you basically just don’t understand how rich upper-middle class Americans are. $2k for a phone is a little steep but it’s not actually that painful amortized over a couple of years.
I’m not even in that class and it wouldn’t have been that gobsmacking for me before having kids.
Yes, I am. Here these prices are more obscene, indeed, although upper class people (5–10% richest) can easily travel abroad and buy these things in the US and Paraguay is a shortcut to pay way less than the MSRP of electronics.
My iPad is no longer receiving updates, and I’m considering getting a Duo when my phone packs in (probably not for a good while though, it’s only 3 years old).
I use my phone as a recipe book an awful lot, and it would be nice to not have to prop it up or keep it just flat on the counter top and crane my neck to see what I’m doing. I frequently feel like I need to migrate what I’m doing on the phone to a larger device because I find that less constraining, being able to flip to the bigger one immediately and with perfect continuity would be awesome.
I don’t know. I think your point about it being more expensive that a phone and a tablet combined is a really valid one. But when you’re considering a pro phone and a pro ipad, suddenly that calculus shifts quite a lot. The Duo is definitely a luxury product, and not one I expect a ton of people to buy. But I have liked the idea of foldables since I saw Westworld and think there’s something inherently very cool about them. I think the tech is still maturing and we’re throughly inside the “enthusiasts only” stage of its marketing life, but I do expect the tech over time to become far more ubiquitous. I fall firmly into that first camp, and I just wanna enjoy the novelty.
But when you’re considering a pro phone and a pro ipad, suddenly that calculus shifts quite a lot.
Genuinely asking: what do “pro” phones and tablets do that justify their prices? Tablets, specifically, are nonsensical to me. I mean, even base iPad can show recipes, play Netflix and be used as an e-reader just as much as an iPad Pro, no?
I use an iPad Pro 11 in as my primary “computer” when I travel. Beyond the usual web browsing, I use for editing photos on Lightroom and editing videos with FCP.
The pros also have USB 4.0 capable ports which really helps with moving files on and off SSDs.
My iPad is 9 years old now, so maybe I'm not the best to answer this question, but at the time I bought the Pro because the audio quality was phenomenal compared to the base model, and I knew I'd be using it for media consumption in addition to other uses. It was also the first to offer ProMotion (120Hz), had an anti-glare laminated display, True Tone w/ P3 gamut, and had a larger 10.5 vs 9.7" screen, A10X vs A9, external keyboard smart connector (which I did use), pencil support, better front camera, and double the storage. At the time the Pro iPad was a definite upgrade over the non Pro model.
I think paying extra at the time is part of why I still find it tolerable to use 9 years later, vs a non-pro model of the same year.
I bought an iPad Pro for the large and high quality hdr screen back in 2021. Still going strong. Cost an amortized $230/year, which isn’t bad for a media consumption device.
I bought an iPhone 14 Pro in 2022 and am only upgrading now. Amortized to $330/year. Not bad for my primary phone.
When I bought those devices, the iPad has a significantly better screen and processor than the cheaper models. The iPhone had a higher refresh screen, better battery life, better performance, and a better camera.
It sounds like you don’t see it as worth it for yourself, but that is very different to it not being worth it for anybody.
The quality of life improvements on the iPads Pro are definitely more numerous than the iPhones, but for me it's all about that sweet ProMotion 120Hz refresh rate. I can't go back now, everything else feels really juddery, and I like the idea of being able to play games on my iPad (or iPhone Duo if I plump for one) in a higher refresh rate. There's also the argument to be made that the "pro" chips are going to stay powerful and efficient relative to the software that they run for longer than the baseline model (backed up by real sciencehard facts just a vibe, y'know?).
For me, my last 3 phones were foldables and I get them for exactly 1 reason: reading.
Foldable phones are the closest thing we have to simulating analog books in a electronic format. As someone who grew up with regular books, having a foldable like this feels downright comfortable and makes it easier for me to read. There is also the added convenience that I don't have lug multiple devices, where the phone acts as a communication device, music player, payment method, and reader all in one.
Is it worth the $1800 that I shelled out for it? For me, yeah, but that's also mainly because I'm single with a decent amount of disposable income. If I had a family, it'd be a much bigger ask.
As a side note, the absolute best phone that I've ever used in my life is the Microsoft Surface Duo 2. For everything that I mentioned above, it has the absolute BEST form factor for a foldable and I would happily pay Apple prices to get an updated model for that again. Dear God, I miss my Surface Duo 2 as my daily driver so much...
For me, phones and regular tablets are no go. LCD/OLED screens really aren't good for your eyes. I got a base Kindle a couple years ago and recently replaced it with a Boox large tablet (10,3"), also with an E-Ink display.
The answer is... maybe me. Maybe. I know that the stylus it works with costs extra and is not pressure-sensitive, but there are times when I'd welcome that. I had a Galaxy Note 9 that I thought I'd use the stylus feature for all the time, but the stylus was so tiny in my giant paws that It was like using a golf pencil and a tiny pad and that's just a non-starter for me. I'd have to get my hands on the demo model and see how it feels in my hand (or do like Quinn from Snazzy Labs and mock up my own version) and if they had the pencil available to try with it that would be handy as well. It's the one thing that might get me to buy it. Beyond that? Nah, not worth it. I have an iPad mini that's not that hard to take with me (though not super convenient, tbh.)
I think a lot of people are waiting to see if a foldable phone is doable after Samsung.
But I honestly think this phone is kind of like a bread and circus moment in relation to apple watches now listening in to transcribe your real time conversations
anyone who thinks there's no market for this check out z fold 8 forums (i.e. reddit). I'm seeing the exact same reactions here as I saw during the announcement for that phone "ah what a silly form factor no one wants it"
post release everyone fell in love with it including me (not that I was a skeptic - I already loved the surface duo). once it's in your hands you'll understand. ofc it's not for everyone but I am expecting this thing to blow up.
I'm also happy that apple will push the envelope on foldable ui/ux since what I'm seeing from demos is leagues ahead of what Samsung's done over 8 generations. that opening / closing animation and seamless app experience is 👌🏾🤌🏾
I'm also considering buying the iPhone Duo, based in the US if that makes a difference.
I currently have a phone, tablet, and laptop I can use to do things. I specifically use my tablet and phone daily. For me, the value is in not having to switch devices and just being able to do more in a single device. I previously tried using a folding phone for a few months last year. I bought a used Samsung foldable and then sold it at the end of the summer. I didn't end up using it more than my normal phone, I was using it less actually. I instead became more intentional with my phone use. For the odd reply to message, glance at email, check transit directions, etc, I'd just use it like a normal phone. However, if I wanted to look closer at maps, watch videos, browse websites, and even just multi-task for a brief period, it was immensely useful to be able to quickly bring out a compact tablet and go. This is obviously possible if you purchase a separate tablet, but now you have to ferry around that tablet, keep it charged, updated, make sure it has the data you want/need, etc. I eventually sold the Samsung since I have come to really dislike Samsung's One UI software and the square form factor was awkwardly used by apps but even that brief experience showed me there's some value.
For the foreseeable future, folding phones will be a compromised phone and compromised tablet experience. I don't think anyone will argue against that. There is a growing market for them however, even if it's not readily apparent. @stu2b50 points out foldable's popularity in China but I think it applies to a lot of east Asia, at least from what I witnessed in my travels. I think part of that is people there consume a ton of media on their phone while they're out in the city or down in a subway train. I follow this YouTuber named Ben Sin who travels around east Asia and reviews a lot of phones not available here in the west and he also points out that folding phones are incredibly popular across an incredibly varied demographic. It's not just young tech nerds buying them but suburban moms, salarymen, and other kinds of people too. Given Apple's growing popularity in these regions too, I think Apple will see some decent success. It won't be the best selling iPhone but the original iPhone also wasn't the best selling phone when it first launched.
The thing that keeps putting me off of foldables currently is they are by far the most expensive varieties of a phone lineup, but are often missing features available on "lower" models like Samsung's folds losing SPen support, as well as across the board (Google, Samsung, and now Apple in the US) worse cameras. My problem is I'm not willing to spend high prices for an all-in-one device that can't do some things as well as other, cheaper options.
For the time being, I'll stick with my S Ultra for general use, my tablet for dedicated media consumption, and my laptop for work. Of course I am somewhat of an outlier, having 5 devices for my day-to-day life (media server, gaming desktop, and the aforementioned phone/tablet/laptop trio). I also have a DSLR I don't use enough to justify the price but enough that I'm still glad to have it when I do use it.
I would love it eventually I could condense to two devices - an always-on desktop that ran my media server as well as my gaming needs, and a truly top-tier foldable phone that could fulfill my phone, camera, tablet, and most of my laptop needs (please keep working on DeX Samsung!), or at least enough that I'm not too inconvenienced by occasionally having to jump on the desktop for something.
Honestly, and I’m not trying to be snarky who cares? Why should we speculate who wants or needs this? At the end of the day these companies don’t give a fuck about what you need or want just as long as you spend more time looking at and interacting with their product they’ll find a way. Don’t do their market research for them.
gary | 15 hours ago
I don't quite mind you posting your blog posts here, but this one was kind of reaching to the point that it feels like bait rather than sincere. The most obvious customer is the one with disposable income who's willing to pay more for some additional convenience.
I had an iPad Mini that I gave away because I never used it. Every time I wanted to use it, like when I spontaneously found myself enjoying some quiet time at a cafe, it was never on me. So when I go to buy a new phone and tablet, which will cost ~$1000+$600, I'll find myself wondering why I don't just pay another $400 and get something more usable.
gary | 14 hours ago
Replying to self: I am packing for a flight right now, but this is my first time traveling with a CPAP and it's taking up a lot of space. I have to remove my personal laptop to get everything to fit (I also have my work laptop). I would love a large screen with me on this trip because I have some real estate crap to deal with. A Duo would be perfect here. I already travel with a Roost V3, folding bluetooth keyboard, and trackpad for use with the work laptop; could easily use the same setup with a Duo.
BeardyHat | 11 hours ago
Out of curiosity, why not just ditch the laptop stand, keyboard and track pad? Obviously it's not a massive space savings, but it's not nothing either and seems rather extraneous, somewhat defeating the point of a laptop?
Or perhaps there's a more compact stand where you could continue to use the laptops built in keyboard and track pad?
Not throwing shade, just genuinely curious.
gary | 10 hours ago
Great question! I typically do work just from a laptop but lately I've been feeling some back pains, so on this trip I want to have a better setup. I'll be working for a week from Chicago. The travel setup is about as small as I can get it; the stands that keep me using the laptop keyboard while elevating the screen end up flexing my wrists unnaturally.
Here's what I'm bringing:
Stand
Keyboard
Trackpad
Of these, the keyboard is just okay, the trackpad would be perfect if it had multiple connections, and the stand is awesome. I use the stand semi-permanently in the office.
[OP] rodrigo | 15 hours ago
Don’t be mad, my friend. I know there are people who benefits from foldable phones and aren’t rich assholes. I was just extrapolating.
gary | 14 hours ago
Bad premises extrapolate to bad conclusions.
raze2012 | 4 hours ago
The key is to buy 1-2 years behind. Easily cuts the price in half and I can be a not-rich asshole for roughly the same price as a modern flagship!
At least, for android. Apple probably doesn't depreciate as fast.
stu2b50 | 15 hours ago
I’m considering buying one, AMA
On the statistical side, the Z fold 8 is selling very well. For reference, it’s sold more than the entire pixel 11 line COMBINED. The somewhat weird $1900 Foldable sold more than google’s flagship + budget model. So evidently the market is quite a big larger than the “clean reference android” market.
Globally, it’s particularly popular in China. Almost half of all foldable sales globally are in China.
[OP] rodrigo | 15 hours ago
Do you have absolute numbers? I mean, Google sells so little Pixel phones… you know what I mean.
stu2b50 | 15 hours ago
Fold 8 has sold an estimate 2.9 million units, and the combined pixel 11 lineup has sold 2.5 million units. The entire fold lineup (including the fold 8 and the z-flip) sold 5.2 million units.
[OP] rodrigo | 15 hours ago
Thanks! These numbers don’t move the needle, do them? Apple alone sells ~60 million iPhones per quarter.
stu2b50 | 14 hours ago
It’s not trivial, either. And the sales grow fast. Every galaxy gold has sold 30-50% more than the one before. The original fold only sold 500k units.
The fold lineup sold more than the iPhone 12 mini did in a quarter, much beloved on the internet, while being a much higher priced unit. If you could either sell 50k BMWs or 50k ford fiestas, you’d rather be selling 50k BMWs.
It’s particularly competitive in China, where Huawei and Oppo have their own folding phones that are popular and sell well domestically.
teaearlgraycold | 15 hours ago
I asked my friend yesterday if he'd pre-ordered the Duo as a joke. And to my surprise he complained you can't pre-order it just yet and he plans to get one ASAP. I think they'll be moderately popular. Out of the price range of most people, but desirable enough for those with disposable income as both a showpiece and for the genuine convenience of having a folding tablet in your pocket. I've never owned an iPad because - unless you're an artist - it seems like a computer designed purely for wasting time on content consumption. But I could be tempted into getting a phone with an enhanced content consumption mode.
Edit: He’s getting the 2TB model!
delphi | 11 hours ago
I preordered it. Used to work at the Apple store, friends there put me on the pre-pre-order list for when the system lets them. I think it's fun, and I can't wait to play with an iPhone that's not a candy bar for once.
moonpike | 14 hours ago
I expect I’ll buy this sometime next year. I don’t have any “good” reason to get something like this—I’m not a power user, I don’t do work on my phone, I’m not someone who consumes a bunch of media on the go, etc—I just like niche tech I guess. For example, my current laptop is this wacky thing, not because it’s especially good at anything, nor because it particularly fits my use cases, it just makes me happy to have/use. The folding phones have always interested me in that way, which is why I‘ve ended up with both of the Surface Duos (which aren’t great as phones, I’ll admit), and why I’ll probably get this one (also called Duo…) at some point.
I imagine there are a decent number of other people who would buy a folding phone just because they think it’s interesting, rather than thinking it’s the most practical. Obviously that’s not enough for a market, and I’d assume that’s not the reasoning most people have for buying one.
CptBluebear | 13 hours ago
I can dig that. Perhaps niche isn't how I would describe my tendencies, but I do appreciate pieces of tech that are out there or if they're pushing boundaries.
I must say that I appreciate a superb price to quality ratio more than I appreciate the extreme end of performance or price though. This results in most of my tech being a mix between well known established devices at a good price and rarer choices that see (sometimes unfairly) smaller market shares.
A €2000 phone is a bit much for my liking but I can totally understand the appeal of something that's niche and well made. If I were in the market for a foldable it wouldn't be outlandish to look at this one.
DynamoSunshirt | 14 hours ago
I think there are two audiences:
I suspect the first audience is large enough to sustain the product, given a 40-50% markup (better than the iPad or a Macbook, most likely)
I fall close to the first group, but with enough self-discipline, frugality, and skepticism of the current tech landscape that I'd never buy the Duo. However... if Apple released a phone with dual e-ink screens on the inside, I'd probably drop $3k on it because I'd love to combine my phone and ereader. And if someone released a Mini-sized phone again I'd pay damn near $5k just to have something that isn't the size of a brick swinging around in my pocket whenever I walk, or bike, or run, or sit down, or do damn near anything besides laying down hooked into the Matrix.
tauon | an hour ago
Love your dual/inside e-ink screen idea, but I’ll pitch you a slightly different, yet related concept: Colorful/regular screens on the large inside (as even color e-ink, once more widely available, won’t ever match e.g. OLED of course), with an e-ink display on the outside for “static-ish” displays like clock and calendar, and of course reading!
Reference point: The Russian YotaPhone 2 from 2014, which had two screens, one normal and one e-ink, just not foldable.
Pepetto | an hour ago
Be sure to post it on tildes if you ever find that (I will too)!
unkz | 12 hours ago
Me, I’m buying one. My only complaint with my iPhone is its lack of pencil support, and now that itch will be scratched too.
jrmyr | 9 hours ago
The pencil sticks neatly to the top of an iPad via the magnetic charger - does the Duo require you to just carry the pencil along with you?
unkz | 6 hours ago
convenient wrist case.
[OP] rodrigo | 16 hours ago
Apple has entered the foldable phone market. Which got me thinking about the audience for this kind of device — if there even is one. People who convince themselves that a phone that folds and costs double the most expensive conventional models is worth it. Do they exist?
papasquat | 15 hours ago
I think the requirements in a phone for users that do most of their computing on a computer (ie, older people) is much different than the use cases of users who do most of their computer related tasks on a phone (increasingly, younger people).
If I need to fill out a resume, or pay a bill, or write an email longer than a couple of sentences, I'm not using my phone to do that. Touchscreens are a really terrible compromise that are a necessary tradeoff of input usability against screen real estate. I find them really frustrating to use, and I'm way more comfortable using a mouse and keyboard for anything requiring a lot of input.
There are a lot of people that don't feel that way, and it seems to be the case more as time goes on. There are a lot of people who don't own a computer of any kind except for their phone. They do everything on their phone, from reading news, to filling out job applications, paying bills, investing, writing and so on.
For those kinds of people, it might make sense to have a phone that can transition to having a gigantic screen.
For me, I just want something small that fits in my pocket, has decent battery life, and mostly gets out of my way.
I would never buy something like this in a million years. If I was forced to only use a phone for everything technology related though?
Maybe it becomes more appealing at that point.
Tiraon | 15 hours ago
What I don't understand is who is forcing these people to only use a phone.
For the price of the base Duo it is possible to buy an okay phone and a fine laptop and have a better experience with the benefit of being less exposed to the addictive properties of smartphones.
Only having a smartphone also carries an opportunity cost as it is terrible for anything besides consumption.
papasquat | 15 hours ago
I don't think it's a matter of someone forcing them to use phones, it's that they're more comfortable using them.
A lot of young people just didn't grow up using computers. They've been able to theoretically do everything they needed to do on a smart phone their whole life, so they've never been really exposed to anything else. Makes sense that they wouldn't seek out a computer unless they were required to by a job or something. Even though doing any sort of long form input on a phone seems like torture to me, if it's all you've ever known, it probably feels normal.
zazowoo | 6 hours ago
Even as someone who grew up with computers and probably has something like 10 laptops + desktops in my house right now, I've fallen into the camp of people who tend to do almost everything on my phone. My phone is always on me, and I can always be in a comfortable position using it. I've just found more and more that if I can do something on my phone, I'll almost always prefer to do it there rather than get myself properly setup on a laptop. The main exceptions would be when using the terminal (or anything else that requires extensive typing) and gaming. (My main gripe with the form factor is just how big phones have gotten. So I'm not going to be one of the people racing to get a foldable, but I can understand why others would.)
Weldawadyathink | 15 hours ago
Why should anyone force them to buy two devices instead? Having only one device is more convenient, less to carry around, less to charge, etc.
I enjoy having separate devices for different things, but I fully understand why people wouldn’t. If you do laptop type things on your devices a handful of times per year, just doing it on the device you have is probably better than having a separate device.
Ultimately it fills a niche in the marketplace, and is priced at an iPhone pro plus iPad Air, and can comfortably fill both roles for certain people. I don’t understand why people are so upset about the price. Just don’t buy it. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it.
BroiledBraniac | 16 hours ago
I might get one. I moved off of ios to get an android foldable a couple years ago. I love having a foldavle for reading and gaming. The rest of my family is in the ios ecosystem still so it's worth consideration.
NaraVara | 15 hours ago
I’m assuming you’re based out of Brazil? If so I think you basically just don’t understand how rich upper-middle class Americans are. $2k for a phone is a little steep but it’s not actually that painful amortized over a couple of years.
I’m not even in that class and it wouldn’t have been that gobsmacking for me before having kids.
[OP] rodrigo | 14 hours ago
Yes, I am. Here these prices are more obscene, indeed, although upper class people (5–10% richest) can easily travel abroad and buy these things in the US and Paraguay is a shortcut to pay way less than the MSRP of electronics.
Anyway, still outrageous 🥲😁
h3x | 15 hours ago
My iPad is no longer receiving updates, and I’m considering getting a Duo when my phone packs in (probably not for a good while though, it’s only 3 years old).
I use my phone as a recipe book an awful lot, and it would be nice to not have to prop it up or keep it just flat on the counter top and crane my neck to see what I’m doing. I frequently feel like I need to migrate what I’m doing on the phone to a larger device because I find that less constraining, being able to flip to the bigger one immediately and with perfect continuity would be awesome.
I don’t know. I think your point about it being more expensive that a phone and a tablet combined is a really valid one. But when you’re considering a pro phone and a pro ipad, suddenly that calculus shifts quite a lot. The Duo is definitely a luxury product, and not one I expect a ton of people to buy. But I have liked the idea of foldables since I saw Westworld and think there’s something inherently very cool about them. I think the tech is still maturing and we’re throughly inside the “enthusiasts only” stage of its marketing life, but I do expect the tech over time to become far more ubiquitous. I fall firmly into that first camp, and I just wanna enjoy the novelty.
[OP] rodrigo | 14 hours ago
Genuinely asking: what do “pro” phones and tablets do that justify their prices? Tablets, specifically, are nonsensical to me. I mean, even base iPad can show recipes, play Netflix and be used as an e-reader just as much as an iPad Pro, no?
stu2b50 | 14 hours ago
I use an iPad Pro 11 in as my primary “computer” when I travel. Beyond the usual web browsing, I use for editing photos on Lightroom and editing videos with FCP.
The pros also have USB 4.0 capable ports which really helps with moving files on and off SSDs.
NomadicCoder | 13 hours ago
My iPad is 9 years old now, so maybe I'm not the best to answer this question, but at the time I bought the Pro because the audio quality was phenomenal compared to the base model, and I knew I'd be using it for media consumption in addition to other uses. It was also the first to offer ProMotion (120Hz), had an anti-glare laminated display, True Tone w/ P3 gamut, and had a larger 10.5 vs 9.7" screen, A10X vs A9, external keyboard smart connector (which I did use), pencil support, better front camera, and double the storage. At the time the Pro iPad was a definite upgrade over the non Pro model.
I think paying extra at the time is part of why I still find it tolerable to use 9 years later, vs a non-pro model of the same year.
Weldawadyathink | 12 hours ago
I bought an iPad Pro for the large and high quality hdr screen back in 2021. Still going strong. Cost an amortized $230/year, which isn’t bad for a media consumption device.
I bought an iPhone 14 Pro in 2022 and am only upgrading now. Amortized to $330/year. Not bad for my primary phone.
When I bought those devices, the iPad has a significantly better screen and processor than the cheaper models. The iPhone had a higher refresh screen, better battery life, better performance, and a better camera.
It sounds like you don’t see it as worth it for yourself, but that is very different to it not being worth it for anybody.
h3x | an hour ago
The quality of life improvements on the iPads Pro are definitely more numerous than the iPhones, but for me it's all about that sweet ProMotion 120Hz refresh rate. I can't go back now, everything else feels really juddery, and I like the idea of being able to play games on my iPad (or iPhone Duo if I plump for one) in a higher refresh rate. There's also the argument to be made that the "pro" chips are going to stay powerful and efficient relative to the software that they run for longer than the baseline model (backed up by
real sciencehard factsjust a vibe, y'know?).KodaLeFaye | 14 hours ago
For me, my last 3 phones were foldables and I get them for exactly 1 reason: reading.
Foldable phones are the closest thing we have to simulating analog books in a electronic format. As someone who grew up with regular books, having a foldable like this feels downright comfortable and makes it easier for me to read. There is also the added convenience that I don't have lug multiple devices, where the phone acts as a communication device, music player, payment method, and reader all in one.
Is it worth the $1800 that I shelled out for it? For me, yeah, but that's also mainly because I'm single with a decent amount of disposable income. If I had a family, it'd be a much bigger ask.
As a side note, the absolute best phone that I've ever used in my life is the Microsoft Surface Duo 2. For everything that I mentioned above, it has the absolute BEST form factor for a foldable and I would happily pay Apple prices to get an updated model for that again. Dear God, I miss my Surface Duo 2 as my daily driver so much...
[OP] rodrigo | 13 hours ago
For me, phones and regular tablets are no go. LCD/OLED screens really aren't good for your eyes. I got a base Kindle a couple years ago and recently replaced it with a Boox large tablet (10,3"), also with an E-Ink display.
Narry | 4 hours ago
The answer is... maybe me. Maybe. I know that the stylus it works with costs extra and is not pressure-sensitive, but there are times when I'd welcome that. I had a Galaxy Note 9 that I thought I'd use the stylus feature for all the time, but the stylus was so tiny in my giant paws that It was like using a golf pencil and a tiny pad and that's just a non-starter for me. I'd have to get my hands on the demo model and see how it feels in my hand (or do like Quinn from Snazzy Labs and mock up my own version) and if they had the pencil available to try with it that would be handy as well. It's the one thing that might get me to buy it. Beyond that? Nah, not worth it. I have an iPad mini that's not that hard to take with me (though not super convenient, tbh.)
The_Schield | 13 hours ago
I think a lot of people are waiting to see if a foldable phone is doable after Samsung.
But I honestly think this phone is kind of like a bread and circus moment in relation to apple watches now listening in to transcribe your real time conversations
https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/audio-intelligence-apple-watch/
delphi | 11 hours ago
I'm getting one. I think it's fun. That's that.
economichael | 10 hours ago
anyone who thinks there's no market for this check out z fold 8 forums (i.e. reddit). I'm seeing the exact same reactions here as I saw during the announcement for that phone "ah what a silly form factor no one wants it"
post release everyone fell in love with it including me (not that I was a skeptic - I already loved the surface duo). once it's in your hands you'll understand. ofc it's not for everyone but I am expecting this thing to blow up.
I'm also happy that apple will push the envelope on foldable ui/ux since what I'm seeing from demos is leagues ahead of what Samsung's done over 8 generations. that opening / closing animation and seamless app experience is 👌🏾🤌🏾
artvandelay | 14 hours ago
I'm also considering buying the iPhone Duo, based in the US if that makes a difference.
I currently have a phone, tablet, and laptop I can use to do things. I specifically use my tablet and phone daily. For me, the value is in not having to switch devices and just being able to do more in a single device. I previously tried using a folding phone for a few months last year. I bought a used Samsung foldable and then sold it at the end of the summer. I didn't end up using it more than my normal phone, I was using it less actually. I instead became more intentional with my phone use. For the odd reply to message, glance at email, check transit directions, etc, I'd just use it like a normal phone. However, if I wanted to look closer at maps, watch videos, browse websites, and even just multi-task for a brief period, it was immensely useful to be able to quickly bring out a compact tablet and go. This is obviously possible if you purchase a separate tablet, but now you have to ferry around that tablet, keep it charged, updated, make sure it has the data you want/need, etc. I eventually sold the Samsung since I have come to really dislike Samsung's One UI software and the square form factor was awkwardly used by apps but even that brief experience showed me there's some value.
For the foreseeable future, folding phones will be a compromised phone and compromised tablet experience. I don't think anyone will argue against that. There is a growing market for them however, even if it's not readily apparent. @stu2b50 points out foldable's popularity in China but I think it applies to a lot of east Asia, at least from what I witnessed in my travels. I think part of that is people there consume a ton of media on their phone while they're out in the city or down in a subway train. I follow this YouTuber named Ben Sin who travels around east Asia and reviews a lot of phones not available here in the west and he also points out that folding phones are incredibly popular across an incredibly varied demographic. It's not just young tech nerds buying them but suburban moms, salarymen, and other kinds of people too. Given Apple's growing popularity in these regions too, I think Apple will see some decent success. It won't be the best selling iPhone but the original iPhone also wasn't the best selling phone when it first launched.
Kingofthezyx | 11 hours ago
The thing that keeps putting me off of foldables currently is they are by far the most expensive varieties of a phone lineup, but are often missing features available on "lower" models like Samsung's folds losing SPen support, as well as across the board (Google, Samsung, and now Apple in the US) worse cameras. My problem is I'm not willing to spend high prices for an all-in-one device that can't do some things as well as other, cheaper options.
For the time being, I'll stick with my S Ultra for general use, my tablet for dedicated media consumption, and my laptop for work. Of course I am somewhat of an outlier, having 5 devices for my day-to-day life (media server, gaming desktop, and the aforementioned phone/tablet/laptop trio). I also have a DSLR I don't use enough to justify the price but enough that I'm still glad to have it when I do use it.
I would love it eventually I could condense to two devices - an always-on desktop that ran my media server as well as my gaming needs, and a truly top-tier foldable phone that could fulfill my phone, camera, tablet, and most of my laptop needs (please keep working on DeX Samsung!), or at least enough that I'm not too inconvenienced by occasionally having to jump on the desktop for something.
elcuello | 3 hours ago
Honestly, and I’m not trying to be snarky who cares? Why should we speculate who wants or needs this? At the end of the day these companies don’t give a fuck about what you need or want just as long as you spend more time looking at and interacting with their product they’ll find a way. Don’t do their market research for them.