I think multi-agent (eg _different_ underlying LLMs) everything is really the future. Code produced via multi-agent workflows and reviews seems noticeably better. I've been experimenting with a multi-agent message board recently: https://github.com/pjlsergeant/dogpark
Experimented with multi-llm analysis for problem solving over summer, combined with multi-agent approaches it can tease out interesting angles to problems that I never considered. Expensive but use only for my high value problems.
I've built agents that call different LLMs and keep separated memories. Remember, agents are just long-running workflows with some nodes calling LLMs and that sometimes can be started as tool from other "agent".
There are times when I wonder if couldn't just draw then in a BPMN designer that allowed me to write custom code for nodes. Is BPMN still a thing?
>Isn't a single agent with a good harness better than any multi agent env?
Multiple agents can each have their own isolated LLM context that is focused on their respective narrow scoped tasks. That way, the accumulated "memories", "instructions", etc do not stomp on each other. E.g. the agent loop that is gathering "signals" from the market has a context memory full of instructions related to scraping websites and using REST APIs and it doesn't interfere with the other agent loop that does sentiment analysis that has context memory dedicated to text of news transcripts correlated with historical price signals.
You can have a single agent acting as a top-level "orchestrator" to manage other agents. However, you can't have a single agent that does "everything" for long complicated workflows with high quality. The drawback is the more agents you spawn to take advantage of isolating contexts to improve task completion quality, the more you multiply the tokens consumption and costs.
Another other driver for multi-agents is scaling out cpu usage, especially across different machine boundaries.
103K stars, so clearly it's popular. Has anyone here used it, and what are the outcomes like, and importantly, who is the target audience for this?
I can see the intention behind crawling social media and news feeds to determine some 'evidence', but am not sure if that's the best approach or even if an LLM is the best way to get an assessment, or whether having so many input sources is a good idea.
Having worked in hedge funds for the last decade, this seems to miss the mark. Firstly we often reward skillstacking ie a technical person later becoming a trader. The more one person knows the better. These people are rare though hence the reason there is still many seperate job functions, so a person can specialize. But an AI agent? They all have the same brain, so why nerf them by specialising.
Secondly, browsing reddit for sentiment and doing technical analysis is not even a feature in the trading world. At the most basic level, these are lagging indicators. Something on options IV and premiums would have been closer to the mark.
Hedge funds are akin to the maintenance crew for markets, we keep them efficient and liquid. The process is quite scientific, you come up with a theory and validate with real data. Or you go from data to theory.
As local contexts/skills get better at depicting what's to be expected and what an agent can work with and work to get better at, having more and more little specialized agents working as a swarm get you, with a field-skilled human as a supervisor, really good results even in highly niche and technical fields
Given what a know about the 2008 financial crisis, wouldn't an AI analysis in the years before that crisis of the real state funds helped to understand the risk of them better and avoid the big exposure.
The problem wasn't the analysis, given it was found out before it happened. The problem was politics, and as usual pushing the system to its limits and beyond.
Actually there is a really good reason, it has to do generally with making sure that all the aspects that you want evaluated are actually evaluated.
Now it may be possible with models like Astra that you no longer need to do this, but in earlier models it was beneficial.
So I might want a macro economic read which leads to a market thesis. Then I would hunt for exposure, then evaluate the candidates across different aspects. Breaking the process up at least made sure no steps were missed and the different aspects considered.
Anyway, I have been running my own trading experiment and so far it has lost a bit of money. That being said I have not tried to optimise anything - just let it do whatever it wants. The losses are small and it might be able to recover later this year. Who knows.
I am thinking to output all the chat logs to HF as well for research.
You can run your own trading agents that communicate over a message buss in your own terms by downloading the CBK platform and running it locally with your own models. I have also shared my trading blueprint if you want to give it a go. https://chatbotkit.com/hub/blueprints/trader
It would be more interesting to compare trading agents with index tracking ETFs. The better version of an ETF could maybe be a model where you zoom in on the companies and add/remove to your portfolio on the company related news, but keeping a broader portfolio.
Maybe agentic trading still performs worse than ETFs. But alternatively, if it were meaningfully better then it would be okay to opensource, similarly how ETFs are publishing their portfolios.
When I started working no the trading agent I mentioned above I wanted to see if it can be just a better investor over the long run. The intention was not to do high-frequency trading. As you can see most of the days it is not taking any actions. The losses where down to mistakenly setting the stop losses too close to the top. If it wasn't so careful it might have made some money tbf.
My gut feeling is that AI agents will be able to manage a long-term portfolio much better than a human. Though it is just a gut feeling.
Lmao, you llm people have some crazy delusions. You realize markets are zero sum, and if you're using a public model that everyone else also has access too, you llm psychos will destory eachothers "agentic" edge (not that there ever was one). Not to mention all the other obvious flaws with llms, lime having an effective memory of ~200k words and no ability to judge whats actually going on in the real world.
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
I have been running an intermittent experiment with a multi agent "investment firm" for over a year now across model releases.
They certainly can beat indexes, BUT.. the model families have some biases that you have to design around. The stop loss that bit the parent is certainly one. The models like to create rules. Often rules, one of those is making all kinds of exit conditions.
Another big one from my experience is the bias to inaction in a scenario with risk. This means a model without structure around it will bias to keeping too much cash.
This would be nice if it was supported by some hard data. But even if it was, one year is too short of a timeline to make any kind of reasonable conclusions about its efficacy.
Buying stock based on coin flips can beat indexes short term too, that does not mean it is a better strategy or that it works over the long term.
I spent about an hour looking at the code and found some glaring issues that should be fixed before trusting it with real money.
- Yahoo News is introduced twice (sentiment and news analysis) which double weights it
- Sentiment analysis prompt primes the model to be bullish on Nvidia.
- In the self learning loop there is a complex parsing bug that results in hallucinated memories when agents return truncated responses
- You can completely control sentiment analysis of a subreddit by simply maintaining a majority of the 5 most recently posted messages, regardless of any quality metric
- The reflection prompt states the agent must cite alpha, which in a market wide downturn causes it to think correctly placed calls were losses
What is the purpose of this repo? Is it to simulate the market so you can reliably backtest trading strategies?
Whatever the stated purpose is, where can I read the test results to show it accurately fulfills that purpose.
Anyone can make a markets simulation that models interactions between market participants. Making a simulation that is accurate enough to be useful for anything is hard.
petesergeant | 2 hours ago
monkeydust | an hour ago
https://github.com/monkeydust/rightmind
elzbardico | 36 minutes ago
There are times when I wonder if couldn't just draw then in a BPMN designer that allowed me to write custom code for nodes. Is BPMN still a thing?
shaolinspirit | 2 hours ago
BenoitP | 2 hours ago
These are necessary and perfectly sufficient for an investment firm thesis I believe.
podocarp | an hour ago
jasode | an hour ago
Multiple agents can each have their own isolated LLM context that is focused on their respective narrow scoped tasks. That way, the accumulated "memories", "instructions", etc do not stomp on each other. E.g. the agent loop that is gathering "signals" from the market has a context memory full of instructions related to scraping websites and using REST APIs and it doesn't interfere with the other agent loop that does sentiment analysis that has context memory dedicated to text of news transcripts correlated with historical price signals.
You can have a single agent acting as a top-level "orchestrator" to manage other agents. However, you can't have a single agent that does "everything" for long complicated workflows with high quality. The drawback is the more agents you spawn to take advantage of isolating contexts to improve task completion quality, the more you multiply the tokens consumption and costs.
Another other driver for multi-agents is scaling out cpu usage, especially across different machine boundaries.
elzbardico | 40 minutes ago
politelemon | 2 hours ago
I can see the intention behind crawling social media and news feeds to determine some 'evidence', but am not sure if that's the best approach or even if an LLM is the best way to get an assessment, or whether having so many input sources is a good idea.
mechazawa | an hour ago
testaccount121 | an hour ago
reedf1 | 2 hours ago
skanga | 2 hours ago
https://github.com/skanga/TradingAgents
hacker_9 | 2 hours ago
Secondly, browsing reddit for sentiment and doing technical analysis is not even a feature in the trading world. At the most basic level, these are lagging indicators. Something on options IV and premiums would have been closer to the mark.
Hedge funds are akin to the maintenance crew for markets, we keep them efficient and liquid. The process is quite scientific, you come up with a theory and validate with real data. Or you go from data to theory.
audinalexandre | an hour ago
looofooo0 | an hour ago
hacker_9 | 56 minutes ago
elzbardico | 41 minutes ago
XenophileJKO | 5 minutes ago
Now it may be possible with models like Astra that you no longer need to do this, but in earlier models it was beneficial.
So I might want a macro economic read which leads to a market thesis. Then I would hunt for exposure, then evaluate the candidates across different aspects. Breaking the process up at least made sure no steps were missed and the different aspects considered.
feverzsj | 2 hours ago
fedeb95 | an hour ago
_pdp_ | an hour ago
Anyway, I have been running my own trading experiment and so far it has lost a bit of money. That being said I have not tried to optimise anything - just let it do whatever it wants. The losses are small and it might be able to recover later this year. Who knows.
The agent writes a blog about its progress here https://trades.chatbotkit.space/
I am thinking to output all the chat logs to HF as well for research.
You can run your own trading agents that communicate over a message buss in your own terms by downloading the CBK platform and running it locally with your own models. I have also shared my trading blueprint if you want to give it a go. https://chatbotkit.com/hub/blueprints/trader
whazor | 53 minutes ago
Maybe agentic trading still performs worse than ETFs. But alternatively, if it were meaningfully better then it would be okay to opensource, similarly how ETFs are publishing their portfolios.
_pdp_ | 42 minutes ago
When I started working no the trading agent I mentioned above I wanted to see if it can be just a better investor over the long run. The intention was not to do high-frequency trading. As you can see most of the days it is not taking any actions. The losses where down to mistakenly setting the stop losses too close to the top. If it wasn't so careful it might have made some money tbf.
My gut feeling is that AI agents will be able to manage a long-term portfolio much better than a human. Though it is just a gut feeling.
dakolli | 26 minutes ago
XenophileJKO | 17 minutes ago
I have been running an intermittent experiment with a multi agent "investment firm" for over a year now across model releases.
They certainly can beat indexes, BUT.. the model families have some biases that you have to design around. The stop loss that bit the parent is certainly one. The models like to create rules. Often rules, one of those is making all kinds of exit conditions.
Another big one from my experience is the bias to inaction in a scenario with risk. This means a model without structure around it will bias to keeping too much cash.
ppalata | 12 minutes ago
Buying stock based on coin flips can beat indexes short term too, that does not mean it is a better strategy or that it works over the long term.
whazor | 7 minutes ago
rienbdj | 52 minutes ago
dsl | 32 minutes ago
- Yahoo News is introduced twice (sentiment and news analysis) which double weights it
- Sentiment analysis prompt primes the model to be bullish on Nvidia.
- In the self learning loop there is a complex parsing bug that results in hallucinated memories when agents return truncated responses
- You can completely control sentiment analysis of a subreddit by simply maintaining a majority of the 5 most recently posted messages, regardless of any quality metric
- The reflection prompt states the agent must cite alpha, which in a market wide downturn causes it to think correctly placed calls were losses
embedding-shape | 30 minutes ago
Eeh, yeah? At that point I'd stop reading the code and just leave the project behind. How exactly is the prompt doing this right now?
ctdonnet | 28 minutes ago
Whatever the stated purpose is, where can I read the test results to show it accurately fulfills that purpose.
Anyone can make a markets simulation that models interactions between market participants. Making a simulation that is accurate enough to be useful for anything is hard.
adyavanapalli | 24 minutes ago