The surge of global Brent crude oil to $105 per barrel is directly triggering the aggressive bond market selloff that has pushed the U.S. 10-year Treasury yield to a staggering 4.9%. Because energy is a foundational input for global supply chains, a sustained spike over $100 threatens to reignite sticky consumer inflation and forces central banks to keep interest rates elevated for a much longer horizon. Fixed-income investors are rapidly pricing in this "higher-for-longer" monetary reality by dumping long-dated government bonds, causing prices to tumble and yields to spike to their highest intraday levels since late 2023. This creates a highly challenging macro loop, where geopolitical supply disruptions in the Middle East are simultaneously driving up consumer costs and threatening to choke off real global economic growth.
Updated Sept. 10, 2026, 4:10 PM CDT: $108 per barrel
The bond market knows Bessent can't do much if the Fed isn't going to step up and if the war keeps going, and by all accounts the Fed is not stepping up and the war is continuing with no end in sight. Plus, issuing more debt to reduce yields on today's debt doesn't exactly have the ring of a solid long-term plan.
The Fed and Treasury are now in a monkey knife fight with each other.
What Bessent needs is the opposite of what the Fed needs. Infinite force vs an immovable object. However the rest of the planet doesnt give a crap and will let this carcass of a country burn.
More bonds in the market, which means the US will need to offer better terms for new debt (higher interest rates) or buy up the old debt by printing money (inflation).
But that's what happens when morons vote for a moron who appoints and hires other morons for an entire moron administration that make moronic decisions like going to war with Iran over nonsense claims that were only even hypothetically possible because that same moron unilaterally ended a nuclear treaty in his first moron administration.
I want off this crazy runaway train we’re going towards the cliff of hyperinflation. I’m honestly worried saving up my money and getting ready to hunker down. I’m fortunate to be in a good position, I fear for people living paycheck to paycheck have no clue how they live with all this inflation.
And with one carefully crafted social media posting, or a series of them, oil back down to the 75-80 per barrel range, bond rates pushing back down toward 4%, and the economy fires back up into hyperdrive again.
Seriously, people. Volatility and chaos is the goal of the new gilded age elite. They want it. They want to see the laborers panicking. They want us to sell or lose our assets, so they can reclaim them at pennies on the dollar. Or what’s left of a dollar, anyway.
There's a reason why economists recommend stability as one of the pillars of growth. This style of governance ultimately will mean less investment and worse relations and trade.
They've had problems with the bond market for a while. The stock market may be responding but the bond market has looked not great for a while and it's going need to a seismic shock to readjust.
Nah the bond vigilantes are not like the oil market and stock market.
Bessent’s first announcement stopped yields rising for a few minutes. His second attempt has been read as a clear desperation bluff and yields are rising in more aggressively.
The fundamentals make the bond markets run, not headlines. And the fundamentals of investing in US debt look abysmal right now.
Where’s he getting the oil from to meet demand now that the strategic reserve is almost at military uses only levels?
His tweets worked due to meeting demand with a supply. He’s about to lose that.
If anything this should mean that Trump is about to become much more dangerous especially as we approach midterms and he starts to realize that he’s losing his Gov and his grip.
The US military may be ordered to commit an atrocity in an attempt to end this. Trump already fired everyone who’d say no.
yeah, ive been watchin oil since the war... oil prices always seem to slowly creep up... then at a flick of a post, it drops 20%... then it starts creeping back up again.
In a sense, high oil and therefore high gasoline prices shape Americans' behavior on consumption in a way that nothing else really does. There had been a trend toward bigger and bigger SUVs as regular vehicles and only the thing that seems to arrest that trend is a sustained period of high fuel prices.
President Trump: We Are Not Wanting to be the Policeman of the World
https://www.c-span.org/clip/washington-journal/president-trump-we-are-not-wanting-to-be-the-policeman-of-the-world/4737620
Don't blame me I didn't vote for this fucking clown. The ones that voted for him got farced. Some have recognized it and some have not . The midterms are coming up and the right is fucked
> Don't blame me I didn't vote for this fucking clown
neither did i, but let's be serious - there's more to democracy than voting. reasonable people saw this coming, and most of us were watching netflix and whatever when we should have been organizing.
Or some of us were getting our assed beat for organizing because the police has made certain demographics a target (let’s be real for literally centuries), and the people didn’t get active at scale until they started getting the minority treatment themselves.
We voted ourselves into this, out of this, and back into this. The only way forward is to vote ourselves back out of this. Anyone saying anything differently doesn’t actually have an alternative.
Have you considered offering them something besides "we're not Trump!".
The Democratic Party leadership should have been removed in 2016 after the FIRST time they lost to an insane game show host. Instead, not only did they retain control, and insist on their failed Clinton politics in 2020 (where they would have lost if not for COVID) and 2024 (where they lost all branches) . . . but now you want to do that AGAIN?
What part of 2024 was unclear to you? The Republicans didn't win - Trump got the same number of votes as in 2020. The Democrats just lost massively, showing 7 million less votes. Their approval rating is currently somewhere between bubonic plague and sewer rats.
My alternative is in my user name - open calls for socialism and worker control.
Name one candidate that is only offering “I’m not Trump.” Sounds like you let social media inform your politics than reality. Which is a problem with much of the country so I won’t fault you.
You believe a socialist approach will work how? If people were psyched for socialism then those voters would have showed up at any point to support more socialist candidates. Some are winning in some districts and that is very much a good thing but if you believe someone running for country-wide office as a full socialist will win an election then I don’t think you have a solid understanding of the electorate.
And, again, your solution totally comes down to winning elections. Didn’t you start with mocking the idea of voting?
>You know that whole definition of insanity thing, doing the same thing and expecting different results?
That's not actually the definition of insanity. Its just an old quote from AA/NA that was popularized in a novel.
Its a nice sentiment, but it doesn't really mean anything, and it's annoying that people use it in serious discussion outside of the realm of "self help".
It means that doing the same thing and expecting different results is unlikely to work. And that's exactly what I'm saying here.
The Democrats have been running basically the same bad platform since 2016. It failed twice, and would have failed in 2020 if not for COVID.
I would recommend anyone that doesn't want to see the GOP continue to hold power stop doing that then. Because it's unlikely to work, especially given that once in a century pandemics aren't that common.
Didn’t Obama’s government pass the biggest change to healthcare in a generation? Didn’t Biden make the biggest green contributions in history while lifting something like 5.3m out of poverty? All with a congressional margin of a ballhair?
The people have to vote for it. They haven’t been.
Obama passed what was originally The Heritage Foundation (yes, the same ones of Project 2025 fame)'s health care plan. He removed the public option from that to make it even more tilted towards private insurers.
Obama was also elected primarily to end the Bush Wars and tax cuts. Instead, he continued them both. Remember closing Guantanamo Bay?
Along with that, he made sure to push TARP (Paulson's grand robbery) and neglect HAMP. I volunteered for his campaign in the primaries and general, but once I saw Larry Summers coming back I knew we were fucked.
> All with a congressional margin of a ballhair?
Obama was elected with the largest majority since 1964. Biden held both houses of Congress, and the Presidency.
Compare what Trump is able to do today, and realize he's doing that with as much as the Dems had both in 2008 and 2020.
I agree. The fact that Obama didn’t push for a new New Deal is beyond insanity. I know he felted somewhat hemmed in by racial politics (I’m the first black president so I shouldn’t do anything extreme) but giant depression/recession sized financial events are rare but also are the only time that truly can be used to shift society and government spending towards a better equilibrium. It requires an amazing communicator to do it, but he was one.
Another Biden is just trying to paper over the problems that led to Trump in the first place.
People can recognize they are being screwed - and given that this is an economics sub, the relevant screwing is financial - and that the mainstream in both parties are ignoring this. Trump promised to Do Something, and it got him elected; Obama ran on Hope and Change, and got elected. Sanders ran on radical change and gave Clinton a scare, despite having the entirety of the Democratic establishment against him. There's no agreement on the cause of the screwjob, but there's wide agreement that it exists.
"Vote for the safe status quo!" does not work when the safe status quo is inflation, a widening wealth gap, a spiraling national debt that has reached the point where it's causing current problems, and job losses due to people being replaced by AI.
If the next president is a Business As Usual type, then the following will be another radical change.
They are. You have a failing neo-liberal system, which seemingly is only effective when it comes to opposing left-wing movements.
So of course any frustration and opposition that is organized enough to actually register (and be allowed to be discussed) is going to go to the right. Which is incoherent but pointed away from the ownership class, that also holds the reigns of power.
It's the same playbook as the 1920s and 30s - it's the defense mechanism of capitalism. And it's no coincidence that these movements gained traction after 2008.
Oh look! Another Yankee thinking the only political action available is voting! They sure do know how to be good little subjects of a corrupt and authoritarian government.
Actual protest action, not just waving a sign and asking politely. Shut down ports and highways with mass-protests. Stage sit-ins of congress and the senate. General strikes.
Go open a fucking history book, there are dozens of examples of effective political action from the past decade alone, and countless examples from the past century.
Yankess are the embodiment of "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!"
Seriously, as disorganized as they might be, the students in Belgrade and Albania are doing things that most Americans not only won't dream of, but would probably support their killer cops for repressing. And they wonder why they can't make change . . . .
What do you think that would accomplish? You think Trump and the GOP will just say “oh no you shut down a port and highway that we immediately cleared with overwhelming force and jailed all involved, we better step down”?
Step down from their offices, probably not. Step down from illegal war efforts, fucking over "allies and economic partners", or from the gutting of every facet of government to enrich themselves - absolutely. It could mean protracted protests, but if the government starts locking up thousands, or tens of thousands of citizens do you think the rest of the country will simply stand by thinking "yeah, that's just" and not be compelled to join in? How long do you think the US populace can suffer the economic damage caused by such protests before they demand action and meeting the demands of protesters?
Please go open a history book. Fuck, even read about Gandhi and how he defeated an empire without firing a single shot (spoiler, it took Indians being willing to be shot in hopes their children would have a future).
Yeah, I am kinda over Americans saying this tbh. Those of you that didn't vote for him need to organize better cause y'all losing this fucking cultural war bigly.
listen friend, speaking as a US citizen we are well on our way to destroy any influence we have in the coming years. our administration is speedrunning the decline of American international power to be able to have the financial industry complex clean up on any existing assets in the US. The US dollar will loose power and no longer be the exclusive Petro dolar currency. We are in so much debt and our general economic policy and tariff strategy is going to hurt us massively, as the stock market will eventually wake up to the shit storm that has been the last 1.5years. Our Banking system will eventually drive the US to an oligarchy state, with wealth inequality similar to Russia. China and the Saudies/Qatar will gain international influence since their soveirgn status makes them far more appealing financially, particularly to US wealth institutions. We will be a shell of the country we were and World Police will be earased off our resume.
Look man a lot of us are trying. It just requires, you know, a LOT of coordination. They also have every electronic communication that everyone makes, and added cameras everywhere. So...it's gonna be a bit more than likely.
Trump got more votes than Kamala, getting 1/3 of US voters. Another 1/3 of voters didn't care if he won and didn't vote so that's 2/3 of American voters.
This is despite the fact he already had a term and every single person on the planet already knew he was a demented pdfile.
So at the very least a solid majority of Americans did in fact do this.
Anyone who says they didn't know what they were getting when they voted for him, or didn't bother voting is a liar.
I wont call that 2/3rds who screwed us my countrymen anymore. Social contract null and void.
I love it, I hope the entire economy just grinds to a halt and the rest of the planet feeds our bond market to the wolves. Maybe then we can start getting serious again.
Hacked the voting machines? How? Which ones? From which manufacturer? In what precinct(s)? In what state(s)?
He didn't "hack" shit, as someone who works cybersecurity and election security in my state, I'm tired of these assertions with no proof.
I didn't vote for Trump either (not in 2016, 2020, and sure as shit not in 2024) but let's be real. Each side can't continually blame election interference for losing. The fact that he won exposes important truths about our society and our voters (not to mention our voting processes) that we have to face, like it or not.
I am positively eager to see some proof of this, but all I've seen is woo-woo 'Hey look at this, it's odd and suggestive!' claims without any evidence. If there's some grand conspiracy, you really believe that the people behind it are capable of keeping it quiet and preventing even a single leak of hard evidence?
well who knows, but Trump did say this, "knows those computers better than anybody, all those computers, those vote counting computers, and we ended up winning Pennsylvania, like, in a landslide."
somehow implying that you, as an American, are not responsible for American politics, but the average Israeli is not only personally responsible for Israel politics, but also for American politics. wow.
There's ample evidence the 2024 election was completely fixed, so no we didn't vote for it. We got cheated, and we need to figure out how to make it right.
If there is ample evidence, why aren't you all booting the cheater out of your white house? Are you just letting an illegitimate president sit there? Well played, see you in 2028?
Sounds to me is it is yet another excuse from a nation unwilling to take any responsibility for their mess.
Because there's no mechanism to remove the guy when you have a complicit DOJ, supreme court, and Legislative branch. The concept of justice being rooted in reality is over and the military power that police alone have over people prevents a revolution against this that would make a difference. I think the non reaction to them bailing out of following the law of the EFTA is directly tied to how the average american is barely getting by in their own lives, let alone being willing to sacrifice that at a scale that would make a meaningful impact.
It is easy to see that there is a grand injustice to all of this but it doesn't give people the leverage to generate massive action when the structures of media and online media that would coordinate people are entirely captured by corporate interests.
I'm as frustrated as you but it seems that there are people that need an absolute, slam-dunk, closed-book case in order to disrupt their lives.
The US has been neutered into submission, all everyone here does it bitch about stuff. We're talking to our neighbors and forming better community bonds, but community bonds aren't going to fix this situation.
Not me man— I voted for the Democrat who said Iran was our biggest enemy and wanted zero daylight between her and Joe Biden in regards to Israel and the lengths to which she would fight to preserve their little fucked up aparthied state.
Bro, they started when they invaded Vietnam, Panama, Iraq and Iran (witk UK, France and Canada), and you just saw it now? xDDD Ahh yes, bcuz it didnt target you, just some random people far far away.
Tomorrow Trump will announce a new round of very promising peace deals, and the sheep in the markets will believe him, thus allowing him to buy the dip yet again.
[OP] unconventionalbook | 17 hours ago
The surge of global Brent crude oil to $105 per barrel is directly triggering the aggressive bond market selloff that has pushed the U.S. 10-year Treasury yield to a staggering 4.9%. Because energy is a foundational input for global supply chains, a sustained spike over $100 threatens to reignite sticky consumer inflation and forces central banks to keep interest rates elevated for a much longer horizon. Fixed-income investors are rapidly pricing in this "higher-for-longer" monetary reality by dumping long-dated government bonds, causing prices to tumble and yields to spike to their highest intraday levels since late 2023. This creates a highly challenging macro loop, where geopolitical supply disruptions in the Middle East are simultaneously driving up consumer costs and threatening to choke off real global economic growth.
Updated Sept. 10, 2026, 4:10 PM CDT: $108 per barrel
Picks6x | 17 hours ago
The ten year nearly hitting 5% should be way bigger news there is gonna be a huge sell off if it stays like that for a couple days
Panthollow | 16 hours ago
Seems like the bond market has accepted Bessent's dare to bet against him.
twenafeesh | 16 hours ago
The bond market knows Bessent can't do much if the Fed isn't going to step up and if the war keeps going, and by all accounts the Fed is not stepping up and the war is continuing with no end in sight. Plus, issuing more debt to reduce yields on today's debt doesn't exactly have the ring of a solid long-term plan.
Hautamaki | 15 hours ago
It's the equivalent of eating this year's seeds because you're hungry today, in exchange for having nothing to plant next year.
MildlyCompliantGhost | 11 hours ago
“They’re eating the seed corn, not because of famine but because of gluttony.”
Hautamaki | 11 hours ago
And spite
Hot_College_1343 | 13 hours ago
I hear Trump whisper “I did that”
MiniTab | 13 hours ago
“It’s Biden’s fault!”
dust4ngel | 12 hours ago
> Plus, issuing more debt to reduce yields on today's debt doesn't exactly have the ring of a solid long-term plan
trump: "the debt will spur economic activity and pay for itself?"
crustyrobots | 9 hours ago
The Fed and Treasury are now in a monkey knife fight with each other.
What Bessent needs is the opposite of what the Fed needs. Infinite force vs an immovable object. However the rest of the planet doesnt give a crap and will let this carcass of a country burn.
Syonoq | a minute ago
Concept of a plan
ViolettaQueso | 13 hours ago
He’s the house and the house is on fire.
staebles | 16 hours ago
If there is a huge sell off, what are the consequences? ELI5?
Last_Suggestion_8647 | 16 hours ago
More bonds in the market, which means the US will need to offer better terms for new debt (higher interest rates) or buy up the old debt by printing money (inflation).
Movie_Slug | 14 hours ago
The fed not the treasury would have to buy it up with QE ultra instinct.
Last_Suggestion_8647 | 13 hours ago
A distinction a little beyond a 5 year old.
Game-of-pwns | 16 hours ago
Stagflation like the 1970s. Google it.
Alivaronas | 16 hours ago
It’s not bigger news because the majority of people who aren’t finance nerds have no idea what that even implies.
I’m not saying it’s not a big deal.
Ok-Disaster-551 | 16 hours ago
"no idea what that even implies"
They'll find out when their required minimum credit card payment jumps.
twenafeesh | 16 hours ago
And when mortgage rates get even higher.
Picks6x | 15 hours ago
That's fair, and the news isn't covering it
justsomeph0t0n | 16 hours ago
"should be way bigger news"
that seems like something worth looking into
ShdwWzrdMnyGngg | 16 hours ago
And here we go
KarmaticArmageddon | 10 hours ago
If only there was some way to avoid this.
But that's what happens when morons vote for a moron who appoints and hires other morons for an entire moron administration that make moronic decisions like going to war with Iran over nonsense claims that were only even hypothetically possible because that same moron unilaterally ended a nuclear treaty in his first moron administration.
Hi-technik | 3 hours ago
"I blame the economy for making President Trump look bad".
ValuableViolinist917 | 13 hours ago
I want off this crazy runaway train we’re going towards the cliff of hyperinflation. I’m honestly worried saving up my money and getting ready to hunker down. I’m fortunate to be in a good position, I fear for people living paycheck to paycheck have no clue how they live with all this inflation.
082426grateful | 17 hours ago
And with one carefully crafted social media posting, or a series of them, oil back down to the 75-80 per barrel range, bond rates pushing back down toward 4%, and the economy fires back up into hyperdrive again.
Seriously, people. Volatility and chaos is the goal of the new gilded age elite. They want it. They want to see the laborers panicking. They want us to sell or lose our assets, so they can reclaim them at pennies on the dollar. Or what’s left of a dollar, anyway.
Say nobribes4votes.
chabacanito | 16 hours ago
There's a reason why economists recommend stability as one of the pillars of growth. This style of governance ultimately will mean less investment and worse relations and trade.
CliftonForce | 16 hours ago
You do mean growth in the current quarter, right? Because time frames longer than that are not relevant. Jack Welch said so.
/s
AlorsViola | 16 hours ago
They've had problems with the bond market for a while. The stock market may be responding but the bond market has looked not great for a while and it's going need to a seismic shock to readjust.
kindofnotlistening | 12 hours ago
Nah the bond vigilantes are not like the oil market and stock market.
Bessent’s first announcement stopped yields rising for a few minutes. His second attempt has been read as a clear desperation bluff and yields are rising in more aggressively.
The fundamentals make the bond markets run, not headlines. And the fundamentals of investing in US debt look abysmal right now.
Z3r0sama2017 | 3 hours ago
Yep. Only reason to do so is if you and a lot of other folks plan on taking the US to the cleaners
PlanetCosmoX | 9 hours ago
Where’s he getting the oil from to meet demand now that the strategic reserve is almost at military uses only levels?
His tweets worked due to meeting demand with a supply. He’s about to lose that.
If anything this should mean that Trump is about to become much more dangerous especially as we approach midterms and he starts to realize that he’s losing his Gov and his grip.
The US military may be ordered to commit an atrocity in an attempt to end this. Trump already fired everyone who’d say no.
SwindlingAccountant | 15 hours ago
Did you hear about the Houthis? Prices are definitely not going down.
Sea-Ambition-451 | 11 hours ago
how do I short the price of oil, so I can make 400 million dollars in the next week?
ShootingPains | 9 hours ago
First step is to start with $800m.
Albort | 14 hours ago
yeah, ive been watchin oil since the war... oil prices always seem to slowly creep up... then at a flick of a post, it drops 20%... then it starts creeping back up again.
Charizard3535 | 17 hours ago
Americans really just want to ruin the planet for everyone don't they.
How about, hear me out here, you stick to your own country?
You are not the world police.
I don't even want to hear anything from Americans, you guys elected this orange face painted pdfile who literally POOPS his diaper in meetings TWICE.
AnswerGuy301 | 17 hours ago
In a sense, high oil and therefore high gasoline prices shape Americans' behavior on consumption in a way that nothing else really does. There had been a trend toward bigger and bigger SUVs as regular vehicles and only the thing that seems to arrest that trend is a sustained period of high fuel prices.
Ok-Disaster-551 | 16 hours ago
Gasoline needs to hit $10 a gallon in the US before the trend reverses.
twenafeesh | 16 hours ago
If Trump has his way, we might just get to find out!
RYNNYMAYNE | 14 hours ago
Americans will just start living in their oversized f150s lol
Mirageswirl | 10 hours ago
Until the underwater F150’s are repossessed….
crustyrobots | 9 hours ago
Every time I hear a de-tuned deisel ripping down the highway near me I laugh. Bet that shits expensive now
chillax63 | 17 hours ago
Technically, in the long run, we’re saving the planet with this maneuver…. You’re welcome /s
shifu_shifu | 16 hours ago
The planet is fine, with or without us.
RedDawn172 | 9 hours ago
/r/im14andthisisdeep
Warm_Regrets157 | 13 hours ago
>You are not the world police.
Both George Bush and Donald Trump campaigned with that exact slogan.
jiggajawn | 13 hours ago
"No new wars"
Warm_Regrets157 | 13 hours ago
President Trump: We Are Not Wanting to be the Policeman of the World https://www.c-span.org/clip/washington-journal/president-trump-we-are-not-wanting-to-be-the-policeman-of-the-world/4737620
venbrx | 21 minutes ago
"Read my purty lips"
Alphadestrious | 17 hours ago
Don't blame me I didn't vote for this fucking clown. The ones that voted for him got farced. Some have recognized it and some have not . The midterms are coming up and the right is fucked
dust4ngel | 12 hours ago
> Don't blame me I didn't vote for this fucking clown
neither did i, but let's be serious - there's more to democracy than voting. reasonable people saw this coming, and most of us were watching netflix and whatever when we should have been organizing.
apple_tech_admin | 9 hours ago
Or some of us were getting our assed beat for organizing because the police has made certain demographics a target (let’s be real for literally centuries), and the people didn’t get active at scale until they started getting the minority treatment themselves.
a_library_socialist | 17 hours ago
Yeah, Chuck Schumer is on the job! Thank GOD you are willing to just VOTE HARDER!
ObiShaneKenobi | 16 hours ago
We voted ourselves into this, out of this, and back into this. The only way forward is to vote ourselves back out of this. Anyone saying anything differently doesn’t actually have an alternative.
a_library_socialist | 16 hours ago
You're not getting out of this by installing another Biden.
This is a long time coming, and Trump is the symptom, not the disease.
ObiShaneKenobi | 16 hours ago
We aren’t getting out of this WITHOUT first installing another Biden.
Obviously Trump is a symptom of a disease, one that cannot be assuaged without control of the government.
We have issues with the far right but please show me a country that doesn’t?
a_library_socialist | 16 hours ago
> We aren’t getting out of this WITHOUT first installing another Biden.
You know that whole definition of insanity thing, doing the same thing and expecting different results?
You did that in 2020. You even got lucky and won, because COVID hit and put Biden over the line, and gave both houses.
And the result was . . . . well, you're looking at it.
> We have issues with the far right but please show me a country that doesn’t?
By your standards? Few countries come close to how radical the American GOP is . . . . or how its supposed opposition is so right wing as well.
ObiShaneKenobi | 16 hours ago
Well obviously it will be different because it’s not Biden or Trump involved, so by definition it is not blah blah blah edgy quote.
Biden won, Trump was charged, the people voted him back in. The midterms will be the mark for how that has been going. It doesn’t look well.
You haven’t offered an alternative. Disenfranchise half the voting population for voting the wrong way? Jailing them? Executing them?
a_library_socialist | 15 hours ago
Have you considered offering them something besides "we're not Trump!".
The Democratic Party leadership should have been removed in 2016 after the FIRST time they lost to an insane game show host. Instead, not only did they retain control, and insist on their failed Clinton politics in 2020 (where they would have lost if not for COVID) and 2024 (where they lost all branches) . . . but now you want to do that AGAIN?
What part of 2024 was unclear to you? The Republicans didn't win - Trump got the same number of votes as in 2020. The Democrats just lost massively, showing 7 million less votes. Their approval rating is currently somewhere between bubonic plague and sewer rats.
My alternative is in my user name - open calls for socialism and worker control.
ObiShaneKenobi | 15 hours ago
Name one candidate that is only offering “I’m not Trump.” Sounds like you let social media inform your politics than reality. Which is a problem with much of the country so I won’t fault you.
You believe a socialist approach will work how? If people were psyched for socialism then those voters would have showed up at any point to support more socialist candidates. Some are winning in some districts and that is very much a good thing but if you believe someone running for country-wide office as a full socialist will win an election then I don’t think you have a solid understanding of the electorate.
And, again, your solution totally comes down to winning elections. Didn’t you start with mocking the idea of voting?
Warm_Regrets157 | 13 hours ago
>You know that whole definition of insanity thing, doing the same thing and expecting different results?
That's not actually the definition of insanity. Its just an old quote from AA/NA that was popularized in a novel.
Its a nice sentiment, but it doesn't really mean anything, and it's annoying that people use it in serious discussion outside of the realm of "self help".
a_library_socialist | 12 hours ago
It means that doing the same thing and expecting different results is unlikely to work. And that's exactly what I'm saying here.
The Democrats have been running basically the same bad platform since 2016. It failed twice, and would have failed in 2020 if not for COVID.
I would recommend anyone that doesn't want to see the GOP continue to hold power stop doing that then. Because it's unlikely to work, especially given that once in a century pandemics aren't that common.
TotallyObviousBot | 15 hours ago
"I'm sure that THIS time, unlike the past eight times over the past sixty years, the person we elect will actually do something to help us!"
ObiShaneKenobi | 15 hours ago
Didn’t Obama’s government pass the biggest change to healthcare in a generation? Didn’t Biden make the biggest green contributions in history while lifting something like 5.3m out of poverty? All with a congressional margin of a ballhair?
The people have to vote for it. They haven’t been.
a_library_socialist | 14 hours ago
Obama passed what was originally The Heritage Foundation (yes, the same ones of Project 2025 fame)'s health care plan. He removed the public option from that to make it even more tilted towards private insurers.
Obama was also elected primarily to end the Bush Wars and tax cuts. Instead, he continued them both. Remember closing Guantanamo Bay?
Along with that, he made sure to push TARP (Paulson's grand robbery) and neglect HAMP. I volunteered for his campaign in the primaries and general, but once I saw Larry Summers coming back I knew we were fucked.
> All with a congressional margin of a ballhair?
Obama was elected with the largest majority since 1964. Biden held both houses of Congress, and the Presidency.
Compare what Trump is able to do today, and realize he's doing that with as much as the Dems had both in 2008 and 2020.
ObiShaneKenobi | 14 hours ago
What is Trump achieving through congress?
bolerobell | 12 hours ago
I agree. The fact that Obama didn’t push for a new New Deal is beyond insanity. I know he felted somewhat hemmed in by racial politics (I’m the first black president so I shouldn’t do anything extreme) but giant depression/recession sized financial events are rare but also are the only time that truly can be used to shift society and government spending towards a better equilibrium. It requires an amazing communicator to do it, but he was one.
TotallyObviousBot | 14 hours ago
"The biggest" out of a sea of nothing is not enough.
ObiShaneKenobi | 14 hours ago
Any port in a storm! When more progressive candidates run of course I will vote for them, but again it comes down to voting.
Key-Trip5194 | 13 hours ago
>Didn’t Obama’s government pass the biggest change to healthcare in a generation?
if milquetoast healthcare reform is the absolute best we can do across decades, we are fucked.
ObiShaneKenobi | 13 hours ago
Well a larger margin in Congress would have meant a different plan. But I’m sure you know that.
AnAlternator | 14 hours ago
Another Biden is just trying to paper over the problems that led to Trump in the first place.
People can recognize they are being screwed - and given that this is an economics sub, the relevant screwing is financial - and that the mainstream in both parties are ignoring this. Trump promised to Do Something, and it got him elected; Obama ran on Hope and Change, and got elected. Sanders ran on radical change and gave Clinton a scare, despite having the entirety of the Democratic establishment against him. There's no agreement on the cause of the screwjob, but there's wide agreement that it exists.
"Vote for the safe status quo!" does not work when the safe status quo is inflation, a widening wealth gap, a spiraling national debt that has reached the point where it's causing current problems, and job losses due to people being replaced by AI.
If the next president is a Business As Usual type, then the following will be another radical change.
ObiShaneKenobi | 14 hours ago
Did the Biden admin not calm Covid inflation and lift 5.3m out of poverty?
I get it, Biden didn’t tear down capitalism. Doesn’t mean that he wasn’t a steady hand at the wheel.
Key-Trip5194 | 13 hours ago
homelessness increased dramatically under biden
ObiShaneKenobi | 13 hours ago
Do you think it wouldn’t have under anyone else? Things like expanding the child tax credit surely helped, right?
Or do we think the moment that Biden took over he enacted polices that made people homeless?
lozo78 | 15 hours ago
Yes and rising right wing movements around the world are the symptom too.
a_library_socialist | 15 hours ago
They are. You have a failing neo-liberal system, which seemingly is only effective when it comes to opposing left-wing movements.
So of course any frustration and opposition that is organized enough to actually register (and be allowed to be discussed) is going to go to the right. Which is incoherent but pointed away from the ownership class, that also holds the reigns of power.
It's the same playbook as the 1920s and 30s - it's the defense mechanism of capitalism. And it's no coincidence that these movements gained traction after 2008.
DamionSipher | 15 hours ago
Oh look! Another Yankee thinking the only political action available is voting! They sure do know how to be good little subjects of a corrupt and authoritarian government.
ObiShaneKenobi | 15 hours ago
Your alternative being?
DamionSipher | 15 hours ago
Actual protest action, not just waving a sign and asking politely. Shut down ports and highways with mass-protests. Stage sit-ins of congress and the senate. General strikes.
Go open a fucking history book, there are dozens of examples of effective political action from the past decade alone, and countless examples from the past century.
Yankess are the embodiment of "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!"
a_library_socialist | 14 hours ago
thank you!
Seriously, as disorganized as they might be, the students in Belgrade and Albania are doing things that most Americans not only won't dream of, but would probably support their killer cops for repressing. And they wonder why they can't make change . . . .
ObiShaneKenobi | 14 hours ago
What do you think that would accomplish? You think Trump and the GOP will just say “oh no you shut down a port and highway that we immediately cleared with overwhelming force and jailed all involved, we better step down”?
DamionSipher | 14 hours ago
Step down from their offices, probably not. Step down from illegal war efforts, fucking over "allies and economic partners", or from the gutting of every facet of government to enrich themselves - absolutely. It could mean protracted protests, but if the government starts locking up thousands, or tens of thousands of citizens do you think the rest of the country will simply stand by thinking "yeah, that's just" and not be compelled to join in? How long do you think the US populace can suffer the economic damage caused by such protests before they demand action and meeting the demands of protesters?
Please go open a history book. Fuck, even read about Gandhi and how he defeated an empire without firing a single shot (spoiler, it took Indians being willing to be shot in hopes their children would have a future).
exeJDR | 8 hours ago
Yeah, I am kinda over Americans saying this tbh. Those of you that didn't vote for him need to organize better cause y'all losing this fucking cultural war bigly.
the_answer_is_c | 16 hours ago
Marshall plan built to world economy…
OpportunityPretty | 16 hours ago
listen friend, speaking as a US citizen we are well on our way to destroy any influence we have in the coming years. our administration is speedrunning the decline of American international power to be able to have the financial industry complex clean up on any existing assets in the US. The US dollar will loose power and no longer be the exclusive Petro dolar currency. We are in so much debt and our general economic policy and tariff strategy is going to hurt us massively, as the stock market will eventually wake up to the shit storm that has been the last 1.5years. Our Banking system will eventually drive the US to an oligarchy state, with wealth inequality similar to Russia. China and the Saudies/Qatar will gain international influence since their soveirgn status makes them far more appealing financially, particularly to US wealth institutions. We will be a shell of the country we were and World Police will be earased off our resume.
land-league-inspo | 16 hours ago
Look man a lot of us are trying. It just requires, you know, a LOT of coordination. They also have every electronic communication that everyone makes, and added cameras everywhere. So...it's gonna be a bit more than likely.
No_Seaworthiness3625 | 15 hours ago
“Never underestimate the stupidity of Americans” has been my motto since the first time they elected the clown.
zedsmith | 17 hours ago
Americans didn’t ask for this either— we are dogs locked in Israel’s hot car.
Charizard3535 | 17 hours ago
No.
Trump got more votes than Kamala, getting 1/3 of US voters. Another 1/3 of voters didn't care if he won and didn't vote so that's 2/3 of American voters.
This is despite the fact he already had a term and every single person on the planet already knew he was a demented pdfile.
So at the very least a solid majority of Americans did in fact do this.
Anyone who says they didn't know what they were getting when they voted for him, or didn't bother voting is a liar.
zedsmith | 17 hours ago
There’s a real strong anti-war Trump vote. He won veterans of our last disastrous wars by an absurd margin.
They’re stupid, and wrong, but they can’t be convinced otherwise.
Key_Instance3194 | 16 hours ago
I get what you mean but every war after Vietnam was a republican idea. Every single one of them.
AmphibianMammoth | 16 hours ago
Vietnam started with Ike and mission creep occurred
Key_Instance3194 | 15 hours ago
I agree but LBJ escalated with Tonkin incident and everything that followed.
Charizard3535 | 17 hours ago
That may or may not be true but in reality it doesn't matter.
If they're that stupid it's not really any better than them being malicious.
The world is still paying the consequences regardless.
dust4ngel | 12 hours ago
> He won veterans of our last disastrous wars by an absurd margin
Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’
not sure why the troops don't support our troops, very sad
crustyrobots | 9 hours ago
I wont call that 2/3rds who screwed us my countrymen anymore. Social contract null and void.
I love it, I hope the entire economy just grinds to a halt and the rest of the planet feeds our bond market to the wolves. Maybe then we can start getting serious again.
OverallElephant7576 | 17 hours ago
I question those results… I feel like Elon may have something to do with them.
SoLetsReddit | 17 hours ago
There is a strong chance that the election was actually stolen with the help of Musk hacking the voting machines.
a_library_socialist | 16 hours ago
why, because you want that to be true?
I watched George W Bush win reelection in 2004 after lying the US into the Iraq War.
I watched the GOP come back from the dead in 2010 after the most disastrous Presidency since Buchanan (at that point).
I watched Trump get elected in 2016, Biden be drug out and installed in 2020, and Trump reelected in 2024.
This American crap of "this is not who we are!" needs to stop. This is EXACTLY who you are, and you need to fucking fix it.
SuchCryptographer310 | 15 hours ago
Amen. It's getting tiring to hear American excuses.
RaceOld9 | 16 hours ago
Hacked the voting machines? How? Which ones? From which manufacturer? In what precinct(s)? In what state(s)?
He didn't "hack" shit, as someone who works cybersecurity and election security in my state, I'm tired of these assertions with no proof.
I didn't vote for Trump either (not in 2016, 2020, and sure as shit not in 2024) but let's be real. Each side can't continually blame election interference for losing. The fact that he won exposes important truths about our society and our voters (not to mention our voting processes) that we have to face, like it or not.
AnAlternator | 14 hours ago
I am positively eager to see some proof of this, but all I've seen is woo-woo 'Hey look at this, it's odd and suggestive!' claims without any evidence. If there's some grand conspiracy, you really believe that the people behind it are capable of keeping it quiet and preventing even a single leak of hard evidence?
SoLetsReddit | 13 hours ago
well who knows, but Trump did say this, "knows those computers better than anybody, all those computers, those vote counting computers, and we ended up winning Pennsylvania, like, in a landslide."
But Trump says all sorts batshit crazy stuff.
heliphael | 13 hours ago
> and didn't vote so that's 2/3 of American voters.
Immediate disregard.
SuchCryptographer310 | 15 hours ago
Americans literally voted for this. What are you talking about?
And no you don't get the excuse of Electoral College or whatever. You know your own system. You still let this happen.
RockDoveEnthusiast | 16 hours ago
somehow implying that you, as an American, are not responsible for American politics, but the average Israeli is not only personally responsible for Israel politics, but also for American politics. wow.
zedsmith | 16 hours ago
Tbf, we are more responsible for Israeli politics than anybody else, including Israelis.
mmoore327 | 17 hours ago
You actually did ask for / voted for this…
land-league-inspo | 16 hours ago
There's ample evidence the 2024 election was completely fixed, so no we didn't vote for it. We got cheated, and we need to figure out how to make it right.
Admirable_Scene_5066 | 12 hours ago
If there is ample evidence, why aren't you all booting the cheater out of your white house? Are you just letting an illegitimate president sit there? Well played, see you in 2028?
Sounds to me is it is yet another excuse from a nation unwilling to take any responsibility for their mess.
1337designs | 11 hours ago
Because there's no mechanism to remove the guy when you have a complicit DOJ, supreme court, and Legislative branch. The concept of justice being rooted in reality is over and the military power that police alone have over people prevents a revolution against this that would make a difference. I think the non reaction to them bailing out of following the law of the EFTA is directly tied to how the average american is barely getting by in their own lives, let alone being willing to sacrifice that at a scale that would make a meaningful impact.
It is easy to see that there is a grand injustice to all of this but it doesn't give people the leverage to generate massive action when the structures of media and online media that would coordinate people are entirely captured by corporate interests.
land-league-inspo | 11 hours ago
I'm as frustrated as you but it seems that there are people that need an absolute, slam-dunk, closed-book case in order to disrupt their lives.
The US has been neutered into submission, all everyone here does it bitch about stuff. We're talking to our neighbors and forming better community bonds, but community bonds aren't going to fix this situation.
zedsmith | 16 hours ago
Not me man— I voted for the Democrat who said Iran was our biggest enemy and wanted zero daylight between her and Joe Biden in regards to Israel and the lengths to which she would fight to preserve their little fucked up aparthied state.
Last_Suggestion_8647 | 16 hours ago
"you" as in Americans. It's not our fault that English is stupid and doesn't have a pronoun for 2nd person plural.
zedsmith | 15 hours ago
He’s survived 3 assassination attempts. What more do you want?
Last_Suggestion_8647 | 14 hours ago
You don't need to assassinate him (and if you do, don't fail), just remove him and throw him in jail (or execute him).
zedsmith | 14 hours ago
Remove him how?
Last_Suggestion_8647 | 16 hours ago
You guys voted for this bullshit.
No-Material3128 | 16 hours ago
And fuck Guam in particular
Beastw1ck | 15 hours ago
That is, in fact, what most of us want. But people keep voting for Republicans because they have the short term memory of a gnat fly.
TupTau | 12 hours ago
Bro, they started when they invaded Vietnam, Panama, Iraq and Iran (witk UK, France and Canada), and you just saw it now? xDDD Ahh yes, bcuz it didnt target you, just some random people far far away.
failedaspotcheck | 9 hours ago
Here comes the pump, get ready for the dump!
Tomorrow Trump will announce a new round of very promising peace deals, and the sheep in the markets will believe him, thus allowing him to buy the dip yet again.
Oh boy I sure do love winning!
Geigengiger | 4 minutes ago
Sure US, keep screwing up the economies of all your allies. It's not like China and Russia are the ones sitting on all the resources.
All the bonds of US allies are going through the roof. Meanwhile the Russians are earning a fortune from their increased natrual gas exports...