As a former user of System76 laptops: they are not very lightweight and the keyboards are not very durable.
You better get a bag with wheels if you plan on having one.
Nowadays they have a number of normal weight models. My 2019 darter weights 1.6kg, and it looks like the new lemur/galago are 1.1 and 1.41kg respectively.
On the keyboard matter: I got a laptop based on the Clevo W550SU-1 in mid-2014 (not from System76, but the same hardware platform); its keyboard was fair when new, decidedly spongy after one year, and very terrible after two (if typing casually, about a third of the time Space wouldn’t activate, and a few of the most regularly-used letters would sometimes not activate either—the workaround is to press the keys more deliberately). I certainly hope they’ve completely redone the keyboards mechanism since then.
Does System76 make a laptop with a high dpi screen? It seems that is table stakes these days...Seems like this is a pretty expensive laptop (portable desktop), but perhaps for gaming it's not a big deal. However, if you are programming or doing some other text intensive activity the low-dpi screens would be deal breaker.
When programming I personally connect my laptop to a larger monitor with better resolution. Not sure what is the point of 1440p or more on a 15 inch screen, because then you end up scaling everything 2x or more to be readable again.
THIS. Plenty of kinda nice Linux laptops out there, but with a terrible, terrible screen. For example, a MBP 13" has 2x resolution than this 15". This is a monumental deal breaker for the majority of people.
I am typing this on a Dell XPS 15 w/ a 4K OLED running Gentoo .
But more to your point, yes, there are few laptops with good screens that have awesome Linux compatibility. They exist, certainly, but there are not too many of them.
Yes there is! Because in the MBP 13" at 2160p I could keep 2x scaling, which is much better than this 1.3x/1.5x fractional scaling I have to keep in the Dell XPS 13".
Assuming you have good eyes, twice the DPI means you can have your text almost-but-not-quite twice as small without losing readability. Which is effectively the same as giving you almost-but-not-quite twice the screen real-estate.
(This post made from an XPS-13 7390 with a standard-HD display. The standard display is quite pleasant to use. The keyboard is wonderful compared to my crouton Chromebook of the past. The fit, finish, and operation of the device is the nicest I've used.)
I haven't noticed any particular noise from the unit. I'm in my late thirties, so if it is at the higher end of human hearing, perhaps those particular cilia are gone, but I'm happy. Placing my ear on the keyboard doesn't detect anything either.
It has been the better part of a decade since I've had a laptop with a fan, so that is a little bit different, but I only notice it under higher loads.
I use fractional scaling hidpi (1.3x) and no issues at all. But coming from a 2015 MBP 13" retina display, I can definitely tell the difference, and the MBP was much nicer to look at.
I opted fro the FHD+ instead of the 4K screen in my Dell for two reasons:
- 4K is *WAY* beyond Retina, which is already very dense for me.
- I was afraid the 4K would drain the battery (especially on Linux)
I really hope Dell will offer a sane ~3K display (i.e. Retina levels) in the future and remove the burden of choice for their customers (at least where it's not needed).
Before you ask: no coil whine for me, but the thin rubber feet peeled off after exactly one year. This pissed me off on a £2K laptop.
As an owner of a HiDPI laptop, I'm here to tell you that if you want to connect it to an external monitor, you will be disappointed in Linux. For a laptop-monitor combination in Linux, standard resolution is absolutely the way to go.
This isn't a rant. Mad, mad respect for Linux here, and longtime Linux user.
KDE only offers a single scaling factor, so you must scale the laptop and the external screens identically. That means all at 2:1, or 1.5:1, or what have you -- this means one of your screens will be scaled improperly (too fine or too large). Gnome does the same, I believe. I have heard Pop_OS can scale monitors differently but didn't try it.
The following Linux distributions support different scaling factors on different displays by default: Pop!_OS, Ubuntu (and GNOME-based derivatives), Linux Mint. Arch Linux, Manjaro, and all distributions using GNOME + Wayland can also enable mixed scaling with a quick setting change.
Pop!_OS (developed by System76) created its own HiDPI daemon to handle HiDPI and LoDPI displays on X11 at the same time:
It is preinstalled on all System76 computers and enabled by default.
Ubuntu's fork of the Mutter display manager (used by its fork of GNOME) includes a patch to handle different display resolutions for HiDPI and LoDPI displays on X11:
Arch Linux and Manjaro users can also choose Cinnamon as the desktop environment for the same features.
If you are using a GNOME on X11 on Manjaro, you can install the mutter-x11-scaling package to replace Mutter with a version that includes Ubuntu's changes:
Finally, if you are using GNOME on Wayland, mixed scaling is already supported. To enable fractional scaling, activate the "scale-monitor-framebuffer" setting:
On Wayland, scaled applications that do not use GTK 3+ or Qt 5+ may appear blurry. This affects all Electron applications. X11 does not have the same issue, but Wayland is generally smoother and more stable than X11.
Get them the same resolution. I have a Dell laptop with Ubuntu Mate and two 4k screens. It has been running wonderfully for at least five years. I'd never go back to 1080.
Why not change the resolution on the laptop? Both my laptop and monitor have the same screen resolution, but I have configured Cinnamon to set the laptop display to only 1920x1080 when the external monitor is attached so its more readable at a distance. When unplugging hdmi the laptop display switches back to full resolution automatically.
Nope, GNOME actually supports mixed scaling with Wayland and works just fine on my Dell XPS 13. I regularly connect a normal DPI external monitor and things scale just fine across both HiDPI internal and normal DPI external screen.
My understanding (not based in any experience, though I hope to get some this year) is that this is a limitation of X11, but that Wayland properly supports per-screen scaling (so long as the compositor does).
Yeah, it's in the category of "portable desktops". Still useful even if you only use it at home. Moving a desktop is a lot of work, moving this kind of machine from one room to another is easy.
I can't really say, as I've only had mine for a few months. No problems, but the hinge makes me nervous every time. It doesn't bend very far back, and it doesn't feel like it would take much to snap. My ThinkPad P50's more than 180 degrees has really spoiled me.
> As far as financing is concerned, you’ll pay a monthly fee. For the Serval, right now you can pay as little as $113 per month for 18 months, with 11.99% APR. You’ll need to fill in a credit application through Klarna in order to do so.
Never understood this company. Lenovo and Dell sell computers with Ubuntu or Fedora pre-installed, that have been tested and are guaranteed to be fully compatible with Linux. Why would you go with System76, which is selling rebranded Clevo laptops with a markup, and PopOS, which is an Ubuntu derivative?
MNT Reform is the only "Linux laptop" I'm aware of that is designed from scratch and isn't based on common OEM hardware. I'm sure System76 offers value to their customers though. I'm personally not too interested in their offerings but it's good to see they're still around. And growing, it appears from a distance.
Honestly I believe at this point it's partially inertia and brand recognition. In the past, when Linux support was more hit-or-miss, and the likes of Dell and Lenovo had no linux support, I think it made more sense.
More charitably, they do some work on custom firmware, and according to themselves, "work with" Clevo on making hardware decisions. What exactly that means seems vague to me, but again, charitably, System76+Clevo are at least trying to avoid problematic hardware, while Dell and Lenovo ... don't so much?
> Never understood this company. Lenovo and Dell sell computers with Ubuntu or Fedora pre-installed, that have been tested and are guaranteed to be fully compatible with Linux.
This hasn't always been the case. System76 has been around since 2005.
> Why would you go with System76, which is selling rebranded Clevo laptops with a markup, and PopOS, which is an Ubuntu derivative?
To support a company whose entire purpose is to provide hardware running Linux, as opposed to one which does it as a small niche within their much larger Windows-based business.
1) To support a linux-first vendor as oppose to multibillion dollar manufacturers throwing the community bones.
2) Commitment to open source and privacy, with open source firmware, their attempts to counteract Intel ME, etc.
3) Gaming and 3D ready laptops
4) Integration with their own distro
5) Actual professional customer support for linux (how capable or even human would Dell and Lenovo’s customer support be for their linux computers?)
I actually can’t think of a good reason outside of price to not get a computer from a linux first vendor like S76.
I've had the best Dells and Lenovo's for Linux and it's still not as good as my System76 integration. With my 76, I just use it and upgrade it, with the others I always have little things that don't quite work unless I cast a magic spell and turn around 4 times.
100 percent of my 76 laptop works, not just 99 percent like the others.
I recently tried to buy a System76 laptop and unfortunately had a terrible experience. It was massively delayed and they weren't transparent at all about how long it was going to be delayed. I wound up going with a Juno Computers laptop instead and it's been great so far.
I own this laptop, it’s awesome. The only complaint I have is that the battery really functions more as a UPS. The System76 support is really top notch too.
I got this laptop about a month ago. My two complaints are 1) the fan gets surprisingly loud, sometimes for no reason 2) the webcam is very bad (720p 7FPS?!)
I will say I'm impressed that the fan can't be picked up by the mic, I wonder if System76 did any custom work there. I wear cupped headphones so I don't hear it much myself. Did you have the fan problem though, just curious? Maybe I can decrease the fan speed in the BIOS...
This machine doesn't make much use of it's enormous size for connectivity;
It has only 4 USB ports which are spread across 3 sides of the computer;
2 are USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type A,
1 is a USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type C,
1 is a USB 2.0 - What is the purpose of a USB2.0 port on a new computer in 2021?
I'm quite concerned that this machine has no 20Gb USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Ports or no 2.5Gb Ethernet (or ideally 10Gb Ethernet). Thunderbolt ports would be ideal but their absence makes sense given it's an AMD based system.
I feel that a year or two down the line, once USB4 begins to make headway, this machine is going to feel quite limited.
P.S. - I truly detest the USB 3.* naming convention - "USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 - Type C connector", "USB 3.2 Gen 2" and "USB 3.2 Gen 1" seem explicitly designed to confuse non-technical people, hell, it's hard enough for technical people too.
29athrowaway | 5 years ago
As a former user of System76 laptops: they are not very lightweight and the keyboards are not very durable. You better get a bag with wheels if you plan on having one.
showerst | 5 years ago
Nowadays they have a number of normal weight models. My 2019 darter weights 1.6kg, and it looks like the new lemur/galago are 1.1 and 1.41kg respectively.
Not ultralight but fairly average.
29athrowaway | 5 years ago
How many inches? Mine was 17" and it wasn't very comfortable to carry it around.
chrismorgan | 5 years ago
On the keyboard matter: I got a laptop based on the Clevo W550SU-1 in mid-2014 (not from System76, but the same hardware platform); its keyboard was fair when new, decidedly spongy after one year, and very terrible after two (if typing casually, about a third of the time Space wouldn’t activate, and a few of the most regularly-used letters would sometimes not activate either—the workaround is to press the keys more deliberately). I certainly hope they’ve completely redone the keyboards mechanism since then.
29athrowaway | 5 years ago
Yes. In my case many keys stopped working and I had to use a separate keyboard instead.
noja | 5 years ago
That photo sure is misleading. I thought it was a pocket laptop.
lars-b2018 | 5 years ago
Does System76 make a laptop with a high dpi screen? It seems that is table stakes these days...Seems like this is a pretty expensive laptop (portable desktop), but perhaps for gaming it's not a big deal. However, if you are programming or doing some other text intensive activity the low-dpi screens would be deal breaker.
[OP] ekianjo | 5 years ago
When programming I personally connect my laptop to a larger monitor with better resolution. Not sure what is the point of 1440p or more on a 15 inch screen, because then you end up scaling everything 2x or more to be readable again.
ihattendorf | 5 years ago
Which results in crisper better defined text.
sscarduzio | 5 years ago
THIS. Plenty of kinda nice Linux laptops out there, but with a terrible, terrible screen. For example, a MBP 13" has 2x resolution than this 15". This is a monumental deal breaker for the majority of people.
Teknoman117 | 5 years ago
I am typing this on a Dell XPS 15 w/ a 4K OLED running Gentoo .
But more to your point, yes, there are few laptops with good screens that have awesome Linux compatibility. They exist, certainly, but there are not too many of them.
Scarbutt | 5 years ago
Is there much difference when looking at text on an 13" screen between 1080p and 2160p ? assuming both are high quality screens.
sscarduzio | 5 years ago
Yes there is! Because in the MBP 13" at 2160p I could keep 2x scaling, which is much better than this 1.3x/1.5x fractional scaling I have to keep in the Dell XPS 13".
mixmastamyk | 5 years ago
Do you like smooth or blocky text?
derefr | 5 years ago
Assuming you have good eyes, twice the DPI means you can have your text almost-but-not-quite twice as small without losing readability. Which is effectively the same as giving you almost-but-not-quite twice the screen real-estate.
holtalanm | 5 years ago
> This is a monumental deal breaker for the majority of people.
I highly doubt that a laptop not supporting >1080p on the monitor is considered a 'monumental deal breaker for the majority of people'.
1080p is just fine for laptops.
the screen on the Serval WS is 144hz, as well, which is much higher refresh-rate than most HiDpi displays.
mixmastamyk | 5 years ago
I write text documents for a living. 4k at 60hz is what I need and it works perfectly from Ubuntu Mate on a Dell laptop. I'd never go back to 1080.
ISL | 5 years ago
Have a look at the Dell offerings.
The Developer Edition of the XPS 13 is a linux-first example: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo...
(This post made from an XPS-13 7390 with a standard-HD display. The standard display is quite pleasant to use. The keyboard is wonderful compared to my crouton Chromebook of the past. The fit, finish, and operation of the device is the nicest I've used.)
noja | 5 years ago
Any coil whine?
ISL | 5 years ago
I haven't noticed any particular noise from the unit. I'm in my late thirties, so if it is at the higher end of human hearing, perhaps those particular cilia are gone, but I'm happy. Placing my ear on the keyboard doesn't detect anything either.
It has been the better part of a decade since I've had a laptop with a fan, so that is a little bit different, but I only notice it under higher loads.
julianlam | 5 years ago
Yes, it exists. However it is my daily driver and I've all but tuned it out months ago.
It's really not as big a deal some make it out to be.
sscarduzio | 5 years ago
Oh that's funny, I have the same laptop with you!
$ neofetch --off
I use fractional scaling hidpi (1.3x) and no issues at all. But coming from a 2015 MBP 13" retina display, I can definitely tell the difference, and the MBP was much nicer to look at.I opted fro the FHD+ instead of the 4K screen in my Dell for two reasons:
- 4K is *WAY* beyond Retina, which is already very dense for me.
- I was afraid the 4K would drain the battery (especially on Linux)
I really hope Dell will offer a sane ~3K display (i.e. Retina levels) in the future and remove the burden of choice for their customers (at least where it's not needed).
Before you ask: no coil whine for me, but the thin rubber feet peeled off after exactly one year. This pissed me off on a £2K laptop.
opencl | 5 years ago
The Bonobo WS is available with a 4K 17" screen.
podiki | 5 years ago
Agreed, would love a 4k screen. Currently have that on a Dell XPS running Linux and don't want to go back to 1080.
killingtime74 | 5 years ago
I wanted system76 but ended up with a xps17 for this reason
commoner | 5 years ago
The Adder WS has a 4K OLED display, although it's temporarily sold out:
https://system76.com/laptops/adder
The Bonobo WS has a 4K display option at a higher price point:
https://system76.com/laptops/bonobo
cbpowell | 5 years ago
As an owner of a HiDPI laptop, I'm here to tell you that if you want to connect it to an external monitor, you will be disappointed in Linux. For a laptop-monitor combination in Linux, standard resolution is absolutely the way to go.
This isn't a rant. Mad, mad respect for Linux here, and longtime Linux user.
KDE only offers a single scaling factor, so you must scale the laptop and the external screens identically. That means all at 2:1, or 1.5:1, or what have you -- this means one of your screens will be scaled improperly (too fine or too large). Gnome does the same, I believe. I have heard Pop_OS can scale monitors differently but didn't try it.
commoner | 5 years ago
The following Linux distributions support different scaling factors on different displays by default: Pop!_OS, Ubuntu (and GNOME-based derivatives), Linux Mint. Arch Linux, Manjaro, and all distributions using GNOME + Wayland can also enable mixed scaling with a quick setting change.
Pop!_OS (developed by System76) created its own HiDPI daemon to handle HiDPI and LoDPI displays on X11 at the same time:
https://github.com/pop-os/hidpi-daemon
https://blog.system76.com/post/174414833678/all-about-the-hi...
It is preinstalled on all System76 computers and enabled by default.
Ubuntu's fork of the Mutter display manager (used by its fork of GNOME) includes a patch to handle different display resolutions for HiDPI and LoDPI displays on X11:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/182085...
Ubuntu and all of its GNOME-based derivatives include this patch, unless it is specifically excluded by the maintainers.
Linux Mint implemented fractional display scaling, with different settings for each display, in Cinnamon 4.6:
https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3858
Arch Linux and Manjaro users can also choose Cinnamon as the desktop environment for the same features.
If you are using a GNOME on X11 on Manjaro, you can install the mutter-x11-scaling package to replace Mutter with a version that includes Ubuntu's changes:
https://gitlab.manjaro.org/packages/extra/mutter-x11-scaling...
https://github.com/puxplaying/mutter-x11-scaling
Finally, if you are using GNOME on Wayland, mixed scaling is already supported. To enable fractional scaling, activate the "scale-monitor-framebuffer" setting:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HiDPI#GNOME
On Wayland, scaled applications that do not use GTK 3+ or Qt 5+ may appear blurry. This affects all Electron applications. X11 does not have the same issue, but Wayland is generally smoother and more stable than X11.
mixmastamyk | 5 years ago
Get them the same resolution. I have a Dell laptop with Ubuntu Mate and two 4k screens. It has been running wonderfully for at least five years. I'd never go back to 1080.
cturtle | 5 years ago
Why not change the resolution on the laptop? Both my laptop and monitor have the same screen resolution, but I have configured Cinnamon to set the laptop display to only 1920x1080 when the external monitor is attached so its more readable at a distance. When unplugging hdmi the laptop display switches back to full resolution automatically.
izacus | 5 years ago
Nope, GNOME actually supports mixed scaling with Wayland and works just fine on my Dell XPS 13. I regularly connect a normal DPI external monitor and things scale just fine across both HiDPI internal and normal DPI external screen.
chrismorgan | 5 years ago
My understanding (not based in any experience, though I hope to get some this year) is that this is a limitation of X11, but that Wayland properly supports per-screen scaling (so long as the compositor does).
Finnucane | 5 years ago
Not so much a laptop as a desktop machine you can fold and put away when you're done with it.
[OP] ekianjo | 5 years ago
Yeah, it's in the category of "portable desktops". Still useful even if you only use it at home. Moving a desktop is a lot of work, moving this kind of machine from one room to another is easy.
Finnucane | 5 years ago
Sure, it's easy to imagine--especially now--someone wanting a full-powered machine but not having the space for a big box/monitor combo.
Guest42 | 5 years ago
Is it sturdy? I have an old Dell that’s gone 6+ years
JellyBeanThief | 5 years ago
I can't really say, as I've only had mine for a few months. No problems, but the hinge makes me nervous every time. It doesn't bend very far back, and it doesn't feel like it would take much to snap. My ThinkPad P50's more than 180 degrees has really spoiled me.
AdmiralAsshat | 5 years ago
> As far as financing is concerned, you’ll pay a monthly fee. For the Serval, right now you can pay as little as $113 per month for 18 months, with 11.99% APR. You’ll need to fill in a credit application through Klarna in order to do so.
Is this a review or an advertisement?
lallysingh | 5 years ago
The article's only as interesting as it's topic.
symlinkk | 5 years ago
Never understood this company. Lenovo and Dell sell computers with Ubuntu or Fedora pre-installed, that have been tested and are guaranteed to be fully compatible with Linux. Why would you go with System76, which is selling rebranded Clevo laptops with a markup, and PopOS, which is an Ubuntu derivative?
[OP] ekianjo | 5 years ago
> Lenovo
Does Lenovo have something with Ryzen + Nvidia discrete GPU at the moment, with ThinkPad build quality?
chrsw | 5 years ago
MNT Reform is the only "Linux laptop" I'm aware of that is designed from scratch and isn't based on common OEM hardware. I'm sure System76 offers value to their customers though. I'm personally not too interested in their offerings but it's good to see they're still around. And growing, it appears from a distance.
MaxLeiter | 5 years ago
They ship with coreboot, right? Could be for the free software + firmware
eptcyka | 5 years ago
That's Librem.
spijdar | 5 years ago
Honestly I believe at this point it's partially inertia and brand recognition. In the past, when Linux support was more hit-or-miss, and the likes of Dell and Lenovo had no linux support, I think it made more sense.
More charitably, they do some work on custom firmware, and according to themselves, "work with" Clevo on making hardware decisions. What exactly that means seems vague to me, but again, charitably, System76+Clevo are at least trying to avoid problematic hardware, while Dell and Lenovo ... don't so much?
ilikepi | 5 years ago
> Never understood this company. Lenovo and Dell sell computers with Ubuntu or Fedora pre-installed, that have been tested and are guaranteed to be fully compatible with Linux.
This hasn't always been the case. System76 has been around since 2005.
> Why would you go with System76, which is selling rebranded Clevo laptops with a markup, and PopOS, which is an Ubuntu derivative?
To support a company whose entire purpose is to provide hardware running Linux, as opposed to one which does it as a small niche within their much larger Windows-based business.
ladyanita22 | 5 years ago
Many laptops are rebranded from ODMs. PopOS has some nice touches over Ubuntu. Plus you get official, dedicated support.
It comes with a premium because they're a small OEM, but it's not THAT bad of a deal.
SpocksBrain | 5 years ago
1) To support a linux-first vendor as oppose to multibillion dollar manufacturers throwing the community bones. 2) Commitment to open source and privacy, with open source firmware, their attempts to counteract Intel ME, etc. 3) Gaming and 3D ready laptops 4) Integration with their own distro 5) Actual professional customer support for linux (how capable or even human would Dell and Lenovo’s customer support be for their linux computers?)
I actually can’t think of a good reason outside of price to not get a computer from a linux first vendor like S76.
lambda_obrien | 5 years ago
I've had the best Dells and Lenovo's for Linux and it's still not as good as my System76 integration. With my 76, I just use it and upgrade it, with the others I always have little things that don't quite work unless I cast a magic spell and turn around 4 times.
100 percent of my 76 laptop works, not just 99 percent like the others.
jdoliner | 5 years ago
I recently tried to buy a System76 laptop and unfortunately had a terrible experience. It was massively delayed and they weren't transparent at all about how long it was going to be delayed. I wound up going with a Juno Computers laptop instead and it's been great so far.
randmeerkat | 5 years ago
I own this laptop, it’s awesome. The only complaint I have is that the battery really functions more as a UPS. The System76 support is really top notch too.
nbst | 5 years ago
I got this laptop about a month ago. My two complaints are 1) the fan gets surprisingly loud, sometimes for no reason 2) the webcam is very bad (720p 7FPS?!)
I will say I'm impressed that the fan can't be picked up by the mic, I wonder if System76 did any custom work there. I wear cupped headphones so I don't hear it much myself. Did you have the fan problem though, just curious? Maybe I can decrease the fan speed in the BIOS...
Tsiklon | 5 years ago
This machine doesn't make much use of it's enormous size for connectivity;
It has only 4 USB ports which are spread across 3 sides of the computer; 2 are USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type A, 1 is a USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type C, 1 is a USB 2.0 - What is the purpose of a USB2.0 port on a new computer in 2021?
I'm quite concerned that this machine has no 20Gb USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Ports or no 2.5Gb Ethernet (or ideally 10Gb Ethernet). Thunderbolt ports would be ideal but their absence makes sense given it's an AMD based system.
I feel that a year or two down the line, once USB4 begins to make headway, this machine is going to feel quite limited.
P.S. - I truly detest the USB 3.* naming convention - "USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 - Type C connector", "USB 3.2 Gen 2" and "USB 3.2 Gen 1" seem explicitly designed to confuse non-technical people, hell, it's hard enough for technical people too.
ilikepi | 5 years ago
> What is the purpose of a USB2.0 port on a new computer in 2021?
Volume cost savings, presumably. I guess that's the port you use for input devices since they don't really require high bandwidth connections...