I know many women who admit they "fall in love" anytime they hear a low bass. They might marry a tenor and never cheat on them, but every time their hear a low bass their heart flutters. Men know/see this and so tenors become less interested since their higher voices don't get the women (there are plenty of other ways they have).
Anecdotal I guess, but when I was in a high school choir, I loathed that my teacher assigned me to the tenor section. It did not fit with the image of myself that the high school version of me held in my head; "a man should be a baritone or bass after puberty!"
I liked choir and stayed in it for all four years, but I was never particularly good at it so what the hell did I know anyway.
As a professional-level baritone who has sung tenor parts quite a lot, there is a shortage of every low voice type (directors are often conflicted when I make the offer to sing tenor). People who can produce a chorally-acceptable A or Bb are in the shortest supply, though. It's getting worse as the amateur singing circuit gets smaller and the gender ratio gets more skewed.
Amateur-level choirs tend to have a lot more basses than tenors because it is easier to sing bass without effort spent on vocal training.
Tenor parts are more difficult, technically speaking, and voices capable of the tenor range are rarer. So any given man joining a choir can more likely manage the bass range, and if they can, they can almost certainly manage the bass parts.
FTA:
> When men do join singing groups, they often avoid the tenor section. The tenor voice is “a cultivated sound”, says John Potter, author of a book on the subject. A man with no vocal training is more likely to have the range of a baritone (a high bass). It does not help that the tenor voice is associated with operatic stars such as Luciano Pavarotti, who could powerfully sing high notes that no amateur can easily reach. And the tenor line in classical choral music can be difficult, with many unexpected notes and alarming leaps.
There is only so much time in a day. Often singing in choir conflicts with playing sports because you have concerts and games on the same nights, so you have to make a choice. There are also schedule pressures - if you are going to get into college you nearly have to take math, English, science, and foreign language classes beyond what your school demands and that forces hard choices if there even is a class period free (don't forget you might be taking band to take up that space)
Finally, there are a lot of bad teachers. They are so interested in winning competition and teaching perfection - but for most music will never be anything other than a fun hobby and so they are getting the wrong teaching which turns many students off. I've seen a lot of award winning school choirs, and the next town over with the same number of students has twice the students in choir despite not winning awards - communities need to pick and often don't realize this.
N=1 and not singing in a choir, I could probably sing tenor parts if I trained, but to me bass feels more satisfying, doubly so going low with throat singing.
The choral world has survived despite a longtime shortage of castrati.
I'm sure they'll figure something out.
In all seriousness, SATB is mostly a constraint because of how choral composers write their music, not because good music demands it. You can produce beautiful music without all four voice parts being equally represented.
I compose music once in a while. I'm now trying to write more in a texture like SSAATB if I want amateurs to sing the music, but it's not as easy to write as SATB or SSAATTBB music.
Castrati never mattered for choruses - you just use a large choir of boys. They were important for opera/theater, where you need a single voice with enough power.
One of my annoyances is that most male pop singing is at too high a range for normal baritone men without vocal training to sing along. I actually find it easier to sing along to female pop songs (by singing an octave lower) than to male pop songs.
One of the great injustices of music. As a bass voice, both pop music and theater is _dominated_ by tenors (or maybe they're baritones? The point being that it seems no one wants to hear you if you can't belt a Bb4).
If a handsome crooner with a deep voice sings sweet love songs, their fans will consist of hetero women.
If a woman sings in a high voice with a girly-girl image, she will tend to attract men.
A singer or group with great falsetto/whistle register, or female tenor/contralto, ambiguous or hetero lyrics, and androgynous image or radio-only can effectively draw in a broadly mixed-gender audience.
See new wave, synth pop, hair metal, David Bowie, Concrete Blonde, Janis Joplin, Alison Moyet, et. al.
If a performer lands on the far side of the spectrum, the producers will inevitably hire backup dancers and singers to broaden their appeal.
Our SATB chorus was about 75 strong, with about 2 women who could sing tenor. They were highly valued, especially in the limited membership of a women’s barbershop ensemble.
If you’re male and you can sing anything or play a pipe organ, you are worth your weight in gold to the right church.
Some of my favorite vocalists are female contraltos, because I can sing in their range.
Choral work is the most demanding volunteer job I ever had. It’s also exhilarating, highly social, and rewarding. No regrets!
I sing tenor in a university choir as an older male community member and we encourage anyone to sing tenor whose voice is low enough. Over 1/3 of our tenors are women and our voices blend very well IMO.
I can state that (anecdotally) this is true. My range allows me to be placed in various sections as needed, but the vast majority of the time I am asked to sing tenor, for lack of numbers / strong voices to do so.
In a former life I was part of a church choir (smallish church, ~140 members, everyone knew everyone). Same guy was running the orchestral band I had been a part of for a long time (trumpet, also had piano background), and they needed members.. A quick tryout and he told me to join the bass section - without taking into account I had a cold that day. I struggled to hit a lot of the notes, but then moved to tenor and easily hit most of the notes, almost being lead tenor for a while. Sure, it was a falsetto, but I could hit high A or C pretty reliably, IIRC.
Moved to the west coast (this was great lakes area) and something about the air is different, and while I stayed in choir for a few years, eventually lost the top octave entirely and am now a horrible singer (I used to be ok and could, for example, easily sing Livin' on a Prayer - I can't come close to it now). If I go back to the great lakes area, after a week, my singing voice has improved tremendously, only to lose it when I return. I do miss being able to sing better, but not enough to move back..
Every rocker with a hit song with high notes has to change the song in order to still sing it in concert. Layla, Take on Me, Dream On, Don’t Stop Believin’, etc.
If you watch reaction videos from vocal coaches hearing singers for the first time, you will find that they get nervous about the ways singers are tackling parts of their songs, because there are ways to sing that you can do for twenty years, and ways that you can do it that are good for six. Less if you start doing full concerts instead of bar sets or opening act work.
I go to local performances of baroque-era and somewhat earlier music regularly. I have noticed on occasion in a small vocal performance that has 2 people per part, occasionally a female contralto is paired with a male tenor. (I don’t know enough to know how that works as far as needing to modify the original parts or not.)
Though conversely I’ve also seen a male countertenor paired with a female alto, so maybe it’s just generally “who’s available for this performance” rather than an issue with a general shortage.
After taking university music courses, and then private singing lessons, my observation is that most men learn to pitch their voices into a lower register - in order to sound more manly. Gay men tend to stop pitching their voices downwards and this leads to the perception that gay men use high pitches. Likewise, girls are taught to pitch their voices upwards and lesbian voices seem "mannish" due to stopping to pitch their voices to a higher register. It is my theory that men's natural voice/register is a lot higher and that if boys didn't try to sound macho, there would be a lot more tenors and counter-tenors (which is where my natural singing voice goes - not baritone like I thought it was supposed to be).
crazygringo | 5 hours ago
It's not clear what the evidence is that the problem is getting worse though? Or why it would be?
klooney | 5 hours ago
klipt | 4 hours ago
mqus | 4 hours ago
moomin | 3 hours ago
bluGill | 4 hours ago
I don't know how much this is a factor, but...
lbeckman314 | 4 hours ago
Damn those big-voiced basses — they're stealing all our love interests :p
nozzlegear | 4 hours ago
I liked choir and stayed in it for all four years, but I was never particularly good at it so what the hell did I know anyway.
pclmulqdq | 4 hours ago
Amateur-level choirs tend to have a lot more basses than tenors because it is easier to sing bass without effort spent on vocal training.
delecti | 4 hours ago
FTA:
> When men do join singing groups, they often avoid the tenor section. The tenor voice is “a cultivated sound”, says John Potter, author of a book on the subject. A man with no vocal training is more likely to have the range of a baritone (a high bass). It does not help that the tenor voice is associated with operatic stars such as Luciano Pavarotti, who could powerfully sing high notes that no amateur can easily reach. And the tenor line in classical choral music can be difficult, with many unexpected notes and alarming leaps.
bluGill | 4 hours ago
Finally, there are a lot of bad teachers. They are so interested in winning competition and teaching perfection - but for most music will never be anything other than a fun hobby and so they are getting the wrong teaching which turns many students off. I've seen a lot of award winning school choirs, and the next town over with the same number of students has twice the students in choir despite not winning awards - communities need to pick and often don't realize this.
Sharlin | 2 hours ago
bluGill | 20 minutes ago
IsTom | 4 hours ago
moomin | 3 hours ago
CGMthrowaway | 3 hours ago
The shape of the distribution has a much longer tail for women than men, on the high pitch side.
bsder | 2 hours ago
When plotted in a log scale for the X axis, the distributions look correct.
CGMthrowaway | an hour ago
thousand_nights | 2 hours ago
throw0101a | 4 hours ago
jawns | 4 hours ago
I'm sure they'll figure something out.
In all seriousness, SATB is mostly a constraint because of how choral composers write their music, not because good music demands it. You can produce beautiful music without all four voice parts being equally represented.
pclmulqdq | 4 hours ago
CGMthrowaway | 3 hours ago
isaacimagine | 3 hours ago
But yeah tenors right -- matches my experience.
moomin | 3 hours ago
olliepro | 3 hours ago
ziml77 | 3 hours ago
CGMthrowaway | 3 hours ago
twic | 2 hours ago
ummonk | 3 hours ago
wintermutestwin | 3 hours ago
robrtsql | 3 hours ago
Sharlin | 2 hours ago
RupertSalt | 2 hours ago
If a woman sings in a high voice with a girly-girl image, she will tend to attract men.
A singer or group with great falsetto/whistle register, or female tenor/contralto, ambiguous or hetero lyrics, and androgynous image or radio-only can effectively draw in a broadly mixed-gender audience.
See new wave, synth pop, hair metal, David Bowie, Concrete Blonde, Janis Joplin, Alison Moyet, et. al.
If a performer lands on the far side of the spectrum, the producers will inevitably hire backup dancers and singers to broaden their appeal.
FarmerPotato | 3 hours ago
RupertSalt | 3 hours ago
If you’re male and you can sing anything or play a pipe organ, you are worth your weight in gold to the right church.
Some of my favorite vocalists are female contraltos, because I can sing in their range.
Choral work is the most demanding volunteer job I ever had. It’s also exhilarating, highly social, and rewarding. No regrets!
j_bum | 2 hours ago
RupertSalt | 2 hours ago
colanderman | 50 minutes ago
loire280 | 3 hours ago
andrewclunn | 2 hours ago
hn_acc1 | 2 hours ago
Moved to the west coast (this was great lakes area) and something about the air is different, and while I stayed in choir for a few years, eventually lost the top octave entirely and am now a horrible singer (I used to be ok and could, for example, easily sing Livin' on a Prayer - I can't come close to it now). If I go back to the great lakes area, after a week, my singing voice has improved tremendously, only to lose it when I return. I do miss being able to sing better, but not enough to move back..
hinkley | an hour ago
If you watch reaction videos from vocal coaches hearing singers for the first time, you will find that they get nervous about the ways singers are tackling parts of their songs, because there are ways to sing that you can do for twenty years, and ways that you can do it that are good for six. Less if you start doing full concerts instead of bar sets or opening act work.
acheron | 2 hours ago
Though conversely I’ve also seen a male countertenor paired with a female alto, so maybe it’s just generally “who’s available for this performance” rather than an issue with a general shortage.
softwaredoug | an hour ago
Tangurena2 | 33 minutes ago