Imagine going back in time to tell Hitler that, in 80 years, the German far-right would be led by a publicly pro-Jewish lesbian. Hell… maybe someone did, and that’s why he shot himself.
The pact included industrial cooperation and dividing up foreign conquests. To simply quote Wikipedia:
"In August of that year [1939], the countries expanded their economic relationship by entering into a Trade and Credit agreement whereby the Soviet Union sent critical raw materials to Germany in exchange for weapons, military technology and civilian machinery. That deal accompanied the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, which contained secret protocols dividing central Europe between them, after which both Nazi forces and Soviet forces invaded territories listed within their 'spheres of influence'."
I mean Germany even sent soldiers to get trained in the URSS in tank usage, while Germany was still pretending to follow the Versailles treaty. And the trade in commodities between the two continued right up until June 1941
The reality is the NSDAP had no ideological grounding whichever way. All their public policies were exclusively to get elected. They were populists, nothing else. Within the Nazi party it was as pure a dictatorship as was possible: there were no political discussions happening there. There was a clear order and members owed alegiance to people "above" them and could do whatever they wanted to people "below" them.
Just about the only thing they DID discuss was what made specific people fall above or below others. There was more than a page of rules about which family constituents made people "untermensch". What about 1 Jewish ancestor? What about 5 ancestors with unknown affiliations? What about a nephew that became communist? What about a grandfather who was NSDAP member but had a Jewish/communist/immigrant mistress? What about ...
> Rendering them as individual pages would mean publishing an indexed, searchable copy of every private message in the corpus — including the many that concern ordinary members and people who wrote to the party, not public figures.
Besides the practical hassle of downloading 300gb and wasting time .
It's their report, their claims, their argument. The burden to make the case and be transparent is theirs, not mine. It's dishonest to present AI summaries as facts.
There should be at least a sample of the source text so we can see how well the descriptions match the sources.
Also, where is the prompt, the model? The methods used to present the content.
It's funny how much critique of "AI slop" is on HN, and here's a case where even mild hallucination is very misleading, yet the bar is incredibly low.
So what's your argument? accept it at face value? It's an incomplete report. I'm not complaining. I'm pointing out the gaps to people who may not take the time to explore what is on the site.
If you don’t believe it go and download the documents and grep through them. You act like 300gb is large. It’s not. The next FPS will probably be that big.
Am I the only one who bothered to download the torrent and check?
So much intellectual laziness, if I may be blunt. All of you who replied to me. The link was there. I didn't have time last night. But I do now. And the torrent appears to be genuine.
Journalists have reached the same conclusion, and the AfD spokesperson seems to have admitted at least some of them are genuine.
No way I'm downloading 300GB of torrent text to run some prompts by either.
I would read a non AI generated article from a (hopefully unbiased) legitimate source. Hopefully providing some nuance that the world including HN lacks lately.
The way I see it, either you are curious enough to download some of the files or you are not. I don't understand this middle ground where you spend more time complaining about the distribution method than it would take to download. It feels contrived or even in bad faith, especially given that the link above would allow you to do exactly that without starting a torrent client.
I think there will be verification by german press and CCC in the following days.
As what I can say, the mbox files / messages from the torrent correspond to the site and LLM generated summaries.
In `99_FOR_JOURNALISTS/VERIFY.md` you may find instructions to validate (DKIM) it for your self.
Afd are just the Nazi party all over again. To quote the Wikipedia entry "In 2017, ten AfD Bundestag members were found to have participated in a closed Facebook group named "the Patriots" in which, among other things, antisemitic, racist, pro-Nazi and conspiratorial posts were widespread."
And just like in the USA, that does not make it absolute. The exact interpretation and limitations are different, but saying saying that Germany does not have freedom of speech is disrespectful and incorrect.
I know sadly im german myself.
But thats exactly my point. Im not allowed to say that.
American can say it about theire president
Ofcourse we can say a lot, but our speach is far from free.
Volksverhetzung is another thing. Say the wrong thing about some groups and your in trouble.
And im not necessarily saying its a bad thing that this exists. But we shouldnt pretend like our speach is free
Germany does NOT have freedom of "speech". It has freedom of OPNION and expression.
Freedom of speech, like it exists in the US is called "Redefreiheit", but Germany has "Meinungsfreiheit", which is not the same. Redefreiheit means you can say anything you want. This is not the case in Germany. Meinungsfreiheit means, you can think whatever you want, but not say whatever you want.
Even in the article of the Grundgesetz you listed, it's stated:
> (2) These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons and in the right to personal honour.
Or in other words: your freedom of expression ends, when you're expressing something that is deemed illegal by the law.
that is the statute . a component of the constitution, but not the entire constitution. or even the major component of it.
The constitution that you are governed by includes all of the judgements that have been made.
in other words, the constitution is defined by its practical application.
So saying "the US has free speech" does not mean "we have the first amendment". It means we have a long culture of judgements that have established free speech as a fundamental right.
"Free speech" is typically about the government restricting what you are allowed to say (e.g. the FCC threatening removal of ABC's broadcasting license) and nothing to do with allowing individuals to defame others.
It's shocking how many people in the USA don't understand how their country and laws are designed to work.
It's a general aim of conversation to be able to get your point across so that the other party can understand what you're trying to say. However, if you have no desire to improve your communication skills, then you can just post meaningless tripe and have people think that you have nothing of import to say.
Cloudflare has put up a notice saying that the site is suspected of phishing, but doesn't block access to it. The site has been reported as some kind of phishing site, someone clearly doesn't it.
The issue of sites like this is their one-sided nature. If they are going to be fair then they should dump the archives of all the other parties, then AfD supporters will not be able to claim that they are being set upon.
Acts like these have the ability to create sympathy and dislike in equal measure for their targets.
I don't suppose you are aware that Trump won the Presidential election despite his open racism, the ongoing criminal prosecutions against him, and his sympathy for the Russian invasion of Ukraine, soft touch on Israel's genocide and his harsh ICE-led anti-immgration policies.
This is a man who openly stated that you could grab women by the crotch yet won the votes of a significant amount of women, twice.
If you have any intelligence you will never underestimate right-wingers sense of victimhood, grievance and feeling that they are the poor, oppressed, ignored downtrodden people who need to rise and fight against "The Powers That Be" and the sympathy that engenders in others.
If these "hexane.cc" guys have any sense they should do the same for the other parties, who I'm sure have documents and communications that will be as equally embarrassing and let the voters judge.
It's flagged because lots of "trusted" users flagged it.
Why did they do that? Some might have an aversion to politics in general. That has long been a strong strain here, with people seeing it as diluting the tech focus.
But for a lot, it's clearly more sinister. There has been a lot of partiality in tech recently to plainly fascist and other ultra-right-wing ideas, especially among the executives and capital. They like it, and want it to win, everywhere, and will reflexively do what they can to help it, including burying bad coverage.
I'm not sure that's true. There seems to be more a general thing to flag politics as it's not so much what the HN is about. The most prominent owner is probably PG who wrote a long thing on why to vote Kamala.
Post a fact about how bad is the far right, including the current US administration, and it will be flagged.
Post a fake news about how good is the far right, including the current US administration, and it will be right on the front page, no matter how much you downvote or flag.
xvxvx | a day ago
red_candle_wax | a day ago
mulderc | a day ago
u1hcw9nx | a day ago
JumpCrisscross | a day ago
That’s old news [1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...
LtWorf | a day ago
JumpCrisscross | a day ago
TFNA | a day ago
"In August of that year [1939], the countries expanded their economic relationship by entering into a Trade and Credit agreement whereby the Soviet Union sent critical raw materials to Germany in exchange for weapons, military technology and civilian machinery. That deal accompanied the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, which contained secret protocols dividing central Europe between them, after which both Nazi forces and Soviet forces invaded territories listed within their 'spheres of influence'."
baud147258 | 10 hours ago
spwa4 | 7 hours ago
https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/
The reality is the NSDAP had no ideological grounding whichever way. All their public policies were exclusively to get elected. They were populists, nothing else. Within the Nazi party it was as pure a dictatorship as was possible: there were no political discussions happening there. There was a clear order and members owed alegiance to people "above" them and could do whatever they wanted to people "below" them.
Just about the only thing they DID discuss was what made specific people fall above or below others. There was more than a page of rules about which family constituents made people "untermensch". What about 1 Jewish ancestor? What about 5 ancestors with unknown affiliations? What about a nephew that became communist? What about a grandfather who was NSDAP member but had a Jewish/communist/immigrant mistress? What about ...
gvfsa | 22 hours ago
polyamid23 | 11 hours ago
tonymet | a day ago
retrac | a day ago
tonymet | a day ago
tonymet | a day ago
> Rendering them as individual pages would mean publishing an indexed, searchable copy of every private message in the corpus — including the many that concern ordinary members and people who wrote to the party, not public figures.
which is suspicious
striking | a day ago
tonymet | a day ago
It's their report, their claims, their argument. The burden to make the case and be transparent is theirs, not mine. It's dishonest to present AI summaries as facts.
There should be at least a sample of the source text so we can see how well the descriptions match the sources.
Also, where is the prompt, the model? The methods used to present the content.
It's funny how much critique of "AI slop" is on HN, and here's a case where even mild hallucination is very misleading, yet the bar is incredibly low.
stop50 | a day ago
tonymet | 23 hours ago
ofjcihen | a day ago
“I refuse to and I’m still going to complain.”
tonymet | a day ago
ofjcihen | 23 hours ago
The documents have been provided.
If you don’t believe it go and download the documents and grep through them. You act like 300gb is large. It’s not. The next FPS will probably be that big.
tonymet | 22 hours ago
jdb9001 | 20 hours ago
account42 | 11 hours ago
- source that approximately nobody will follow up with
This has been a common journalist tactic to report the opposite of the truth.
retrac | 3 hours ago
Am I the only one who bothered to download the torrent and check?
So much intellectual laziness, if I may be blunt. All of you who replied to me. The link was there. I didn't have time last night. But I do now. And the torrent appears to be genuine.
Journalists have reached the same conclusion, and the AfD spokesperson seems to have admitted at least some of them are genuine.
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-news-hackers-release-afd-party...
https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/germanys-far-right-...
ofjcihen | 2 hours ago
roosterIllusi0n | a day ago
tonymet | 23 hours ago
Look dude, maybe this is your project , so you're defensive.
I saw the tag line, visited and thought "ooh some spicy emails that'll be interesting. ".
Then i found a bunch of AI slop, with no grounding.
That's all it is.
wallst07 | 11 hours ago
I would read a non AI generated article from a (hopefully unbiased) legitimate source. Hopefully providing some nuance that the world including HN lacks lately.
retrac | 3 hours ago
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-news-hackers-release-afd-party...
striking | 22 hours ago
exiguus | 9 hours ago
exiguus | 9 hours ago
caidan | a day ago
josefritzishere | a day ago
kylepomykala | a day ago
Website screams AI slop though.
anon84873628 | a day ago
ChrisArchitect | a day ago
tonymet | a day ago
Timon3 | 21 hours ago
tonymet | 21 hours ago
Ao7bei3s | 21 hours ago
And just like in the USA, that does not make it absolute. The exact interpretation and limitations are different, but saying saying that Germany does not have freedom of speech is disrespectful and incorrect.
tonymet | 20 hours ago
account42 | 11 hours ago
td2 | 11 hours ago
Try saying the same about Merz
jbloggs777 | 6 hours ago
You can criticise Merz's hairstyle, his politics, and his small hands all you like though.
td2 | 2 hours ago
Ofcourse we can say a lot, but our speach is far from free. Volksverhetzung is another thing. Say the wrong thing about some groups and your in trouble. And im not necessarily saying its a bad thing that this exists. But we shouldnt pretend like our speach is free
jst1fthsdys | 4 hours ago
arkfrost | 3 hours ago
Freedom of speech, like it exists in the US is called "Redefreiheit", but Germany has "Meinungsfreiheit", which is not the same. Redefreiheit means you can say anything you want. This is not the case in Germany. Meinungsfreiheit means, you can think whatever you want, but not say whatever you want.
Even in the article of the Grundgesetz you listed, it's stated:
> (2) These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons and in the right to personal honour.
Or in other words: your freedom of expression ends, when you're expressing something that is deemed illegal by the law.
tonymet | 3 hours ago
The constitution that you are governed by includes all of the judgements that have been made.
in other words, the constitution is defined by its practical application.
So saying "the US has free speech" does not mean "we have the first amendment". It means we have a long culture of judgements that have established free speech as a fundamental right.
ndsipa_pomu | 13 hours ago
It's shocking how many people in the USA don't understand how their country and laws are designed to work.
tonymet | 8 hours ago
ndsipa_pomu | 7 hours ago
tonymet | 7 hours ago
ndsipa_pomu | 6 hours ago
tonymet | 6 hours ago
vrganj | a day ago
vfclists | 20 hours ago
The issue of sites like this is their one-sided nature. If they are going to be fair then they should dump the archives of all the other parties, then AfD supporters will not be able to claim that they are being set upon.
Acts like these have the ability to create sympathy and dislike in equal measure for their targets.
nielsbot | 20 hours ago
Are you saying that outing racists is one-sided and will create sympathy for them?
soraminazuki | 20 hours ago
vfclists | 4 hours ago
This is a man who openly stated that you could grab women by the crotch yet won the votes of a significant amount of women, twice.
If you have any intelligence you will never underestimate right-wingers sense of victimhood, grievance and feeling that they are the poor, oppressed, ignored downtrodden people who need to rise and fight against "The Powers That Be" and the sympathy that engenders in others.
If these "hexane.cc" guys have any sense they should do the same for the other parties, who I'm sure have documents and communications that will be as equally embarrassing and let the voters judge.
nielsbot | 20 hours ago
wnoise | 19 hours ago
Why did they do that? Some might have an aversion to politics in general. That has long been a strong strain here, with people seeing it as diluting the tech focus.
But for a lot, it's clearly more sinister. There has been a lot of partiality in tech recently to plainly fascist and other ultra-right-wing ideas, especially among the executives and capital. They like it, and want it to win, everywhere, and will reflexively do what they can to help it, including burying bad coverage.
singularity2001 | 13 hours ago
For a second, I thought this is Dangs / HN official view now lol
akagusu | 12 hours ago
This site is owned by far-right aligned people and they censor everything that makes them look bad.
tim333 | 9 hours ago
akagusu | 6 hours ago
Post a fact about how bad is the far right, including the current US administration, and it will be flagged.
Post a fake news about how good is the far right, including the current US administration, and it will be right on the front page, no matter how much you downvote or flag.
exiguus | 22 minutes ago
exiguus | 9 hours ago
oliwarner | 15 hours ago
lurk2 | 12 hours ago
exiguus | 9 hours ago
crossroadsguy | 10 hours ago
But then I often see this for any source:
And the top also shows this So can't really say.So I think [flagged] for this source/post is rightly served, one way or the other.
jacquesm | 3 hours ago
silexia | 7 hours ago
sillyfluke | 7 hours ago
jacquesm | 3 hours ago
jonathanstrange | an hour ago
What a disgrace.