For reference, these Section 301 investigations into "unfair trade" are just a formality that will enable Trump to impose new tariffs of up to 100% on the countries that are being investigated, which includes the EU.
So the other major economies have a double whammy - They have to deal with the consequences of both the war in Iran, any other wars Trump starts, and new ever-expanding tariffs over the next 3 years.
I think it's past time the rest of the G7 and G20 joined hands to tell Trump to just stop and took collective action against America if he didn't.
Agreed, if all countries teamed up and denied USA access to their markets started fucking around with currencies I think we could cause a depression in USA
You act as though it is a one sided action. Europe cannot do this without sacrificing their own economies that are already on very shaky ground. Between this and the war Europe is in an extremely unenviable position here. Trump knows this, Putin knows this, we all know this.
So what you’re saying is “short term pain for long term gain”. Funny I keep hearing that from everyone these days. That’s just what people say when they are going to break things and have no idea if or when they will be fixed.
Pretty sure there are alternatives to the status quo that don't involve the non-US countries intentionally manufacturing a worldwide depression and turning the US into a pissed pariah state with Nukes - like Russia.
One is temporarily placating Trump with worthless promises (e.g., offering Greenland bases that the US was already allowed to have, vague promises of investments in the US, etc.) while transitioning economies away from US reliance at a measured, but not suicidal, rate.
Do you believe the US will peacefully allow non-US countries to transition away from it, and towards, presumably, its economic rivals? Because that’s the assumption here
You guys really don't seem to grasp just how insane Trump actually is. I don't mean that rhetorically or politically - the guy is descending into true clinical insanity at this point, and because he has surrounded himself with a cadre of absolute sycophants, there are no 'guardrails' around him at all any more.
So pull up your big boy pants and get ready to deal with whatever comes, because if you think any rational rules apply, you're just wrong.
One can hope but history has shown he's not a fan of losing power. He's never leaving again.
Second, countries won't trust America for a good long time. We elected Trump. Twice. Once is a fluke, twice is "Something is fucking wrong with that country. We need to stay away until they can earn our trust again."
Very Trumpian really. It does absolutely boggle my mind that everything he's done up to this point has not crashed the US/global economies. Next week however...
The thing is EU economies know they just have to wait 678 days.
The short term pain is just waiting till his term runs out. And it may be even shorter if the midterms go terribly, there is a hope the dems may, frankly grow some balls and put some reigns on him.
And yet after 678 days of waiting, there is zero guarantee that what comes next is any better. That’s the problem with pinning your futures on a hope that the American voters get it right…
Waiting on the dumpster fire that this orange parasite has caused to go out is foolhardy. His bullshit is benefitting big business and the ultra-wealthy small interests. They NEVER give back.
I'm just an average dippy American in survival mode in a Red state that just offers generic, static corporate responses when I write or call Congress members. I don't know what else to do.
Maga is a cult of personality, you can see with the defections happening already, even at the charlie kirk seance. Bannon was atracking Shapiro was attacking Owens. MTG has bailed.
From the outside, the maga movement as such is doomed to die a dementia death with its figurehead.
Remember the big business in the EU want a business friend in the whitehouse, and stability. They dont care if abortion rights are a thing or rent is stabilized in new York. They would be perfectly happy with a center right leader long as he is predictable. Anyone as crazy as trump simply cant lead the gop as an institution at the moment. He is unique in that regard.
Congressional GOP is doing this too. They are only enabling this behavior and if they don't get put to the wayside by a majority house and senate willing to fix this shit the next GOP backed president will have the same playbook. God I hope this party degrades into nothingness if we see this through.
Europe, Japan and China can easily crash the US economy if they want to. There will be blowback but this is the nuclear option that will officially end US dominance.
The more the US borrows to fund the war in Iran, the more leverage they give China. China can already sink the entire US economy if they wanted by selling off US treasuries as is.
Europe isn’t a relevant power in the way they were 10 years ago. All of these countries have horrible demographics due to age and won’t be relevant in 20 years.
The idea that Europe should crash the US economy after we’ve subsidized their drug R&D for decades, not to mention their defense for decades (when Eastern Europe is at war with Russia…)
No, Japan is not going to engage in economic terrorism against their strongest ally in the world who sells them weapons against their longtime rival, China.
You guys either learn to rely on each other and build out your trade with the rest of the world and cut yourselves off from the US, or you're going to find yourselves leashed to a very dangerous rabid dog that will absolutely savage you, directly and violently.
Trump isn't going to get any better - he's going to get steadily worse until he's removed from office. He's suffering from severe delusions at this point and Iran is likely just the beginning of his final descent as he grows increasingly politically dangerous and violent.
The US will be very lucky to make it thru the midterms without descending into civil war or violent authoritarianism and permanent martial law.
They’d prompt far greater reaction by denying them access to their military bases, ports, and runways. America has thousands of troops and hundreds of bases in Europe and they care far more about those than about European markets
Iran alone will cause a depression in the US if the cost of energy spikes. Sure, Trump’s oil buddies will earn a lot from higher oil prices, but inflated energy prices will ruin everything else.
Thats exactly what mark carney said in davos, either unite together or get pushed around independently. But its been all bark no bite out of the eu the last 15 months.
The EU is not a country. They can't even agree on whether or not to use frozen Russian funds to support Ukraine. Expecting them to suddenly unite and become a force able to rival the USA is fantasy.
Eu cant be a force to face the us alone on trade issues. Thats the whole fucking point. Until they as a group see that they need to be a much larger coalition to have strength in 2026, they fucked
As an American they need to just do it. Few here understand how harmful his policies are until they start affecting their pocket book. Or care maybe IDK.
The EU can tariffs the US services. It will hit the US software giants hard and simultaneously push the EU software industry. Probably, it is still unlikely due to military, economical, and political consequences but the opinions certainly move to this direction along with the process of decaupling. At some point consensus can be ready.
That will hit the EU economy like a brick. Amid rising energy prices you want to make services for where there is no alternative at the moment more expensive for EU companies?
Is it in this sub of all places still not clear how tariffs work? You tariff stuff you can go without, have domestic alternatives, or other alternatives on the world market ex the country you want to target. US IT services fall in neither of those categories.
If the rest of the developed world implemented a full trade embargo against the US until Trump was no longer President, he would be impeached and convicted. They only have power if the act collectively, which seems to be the problem.
There isn’t really a good way that the G7, G20 or even the world could deal with Trump. Even if every country in the world were to united against the US and that’s a big if the world will be thrown into a greater depression than the one seen in the 30s when the world’s economies were less interconnected. The US makes up of 30% of the world’s consumer base.
So either you can fight fire with fire and play chicken with a madman. Or you can take the Canadian and Japanese approach and placate him until after the midterms.
Trump announced new Section 301 investigations that will allow him to impose up to 100% tariffs by the time the midterms come. He isn't going to get any less belligerent unless he actually faces a serious risk of impeachment for it.
Trump might get impeached but there is no scenario I could see him getting removed. He was already impeached twice but you need 67 senators to remove him from office. Even under a dream scenario for Democrats in the midterms they won’t have the votes. The last time one party had that many senators was during Johnson presidency.
So really there is nothing a country can do other than wait it out, placate him or call his bluff and risk damaging your own economy.
Or it can retaliate with tariffs or sanctions. Trump is actually vulnerable now because he's legally unable to raise tariffs more than 15%(that's why he launched these investigations) for the next 5 months. In that period the EU, Canada, Australia, Japan etc. could join hands and raise tariffs on American goods to 100% unless Trump stopped the war in Iran.
That would force an ending to the immediate pain while teaching Trump a lesson about collective economic power.
While I agree the world should retaliate because not doing so will encourage Trumpism more, it's not that simple imho. Problem is, Trump won't care about economic damage to the people. Further chaos is what he actually wants. He will only find a way of personally benefits, and will also be awarded with distraction from Epstein files.
I don’t think you understand the situation if you even think that is a possibility. The economic side effects would be disastrous. And the effects would be more pronounced on the EU. There is a reason why they haven’t done it yet. The world economy would collapse. Hundreds of millions if not a billion people would die of starvation.
There was an interesting article that was written probably about 10-15 years ago where it talks about how if China wanted to take on the US they wouldn’t do so militarily they would do it economically. At the time China held the majority of the US debt but has since started decoupling. The theory was if they were to dump US’s debt on the market they would crash the US’s economy. But when they analyzed how it would affect their own economy it was worse.
The US has the largest military, world’s reserve currency and has is the largest consumer economy. There is no scenario where a total collapse in the US’s economy doesn’t result in a total collapse of the world economy. Which is why China is playing the smart game. You decouple your economy from the US’s slowly over time as they have. You allow them to overextend themselves militarily, which they have. And you watch as the empire dwindles from the inside.
I meant foreign holder of debt. It’s almost been domestic holders. But for 10 years starting in the late 2000s became the largest foreign holder of debt. They started selling off a few years ago and Japan became the largest foreign holder.
The USA under Trump hasn’t honoured its ratified treaty commitments to Canada under the NAFTA or the USMCA trade deals - what makes the EU’s hand shake deal will stick?
“Anything” is relative. If a certificate of origin proving its compliance to USMCA/CUSMA isn’t available at clearance then, even though it may comply… the preferred duty rate may not be applied.
A signed “certificate” proving, each component percentage of origin of the goods origin is now critical. Every nut, bolt and spring.
Good. It warms my heart the more countries and people stand up to Trump. The less he's able to bully and throw his weight around, the better for all of us. A whole bunch of countries united is much harder to fuck with.
The EU 'warning' somebody is like a poodle 'warning' a pitbull it will kick their ass if the pitbull steals its gourmet dog food.
The US put pressure on the EU with illegal tariffs. The EU folded like a pack of cards. Other countries didn't. The EU did.
Not a single country in the world believes that the EU will stand up for anything right now. If they want to, you know, do something tangible that would be cool. Not going to happen though.
Has the EU done anything to actually give us any consequences? Idk, the EU seems about as spineless as the Democratic leadership, but I'm sure there are news stories I've missed
Brother we're fucking up the oil economy, starting wars, committing war crimes and kidnapping leaders.
Fuckin do something that would be noticeable in the short term for fuck's sake, I bet as soon as another administration comes in the EU backs out of that shit too. They're just like the Dems lmao
You're acting like anyone was immediately prepared to deal with a sociopathic puppet for a president. The US doesn't even have measures to effectively deal with it.
Yeah y'all should've fuckin been prepared as soon as he announced his candidacy for 2024. Y'all always say how dumb Americans are, then act shocked when we do stupid fucking shit lmao
It's weird that you're taking this personally and somehow have already forgotten that significant change takes time. Unprecedented events are hard to prepare for.
If I could figure out how much of a shit show this was all gonna be when he announced it back in like 2022, I think anyone with a brain could've seen it lmao
And I would've expected that leaders would've been making plans for that man after the shit show and January 6th shit, and then especially after the Project 2025 leak, but NOPE. Nothin from anyone, no preparation at all from American or European politicians.
And again, I completely expect the EU to back out of that as soon as another administration comes in, they've been letting Orban walk all over them for years. So my bets are they're going to water down pulling away from the US once a friendly administration comes into power.
I'm sure me and you agree on a lot of things, but I'm gonna need to see more initiative from the EU to actually trust they're going to do something, cause this ain't it chief. I'm only upset cause they're about as effective as Democrats at forming a meaningful resistance.
Yeah, but that's not really an immediate consequence, and certainly not one that's going to be noticeable to this administration. We're doing Russia type shit, I'd expect a Russia type response.
Then again, the EU acts slow. Not like they were that harsh on Russia in 2014, took them 8 years and a second invasion to actually stab the knife into Russia.
The EU should have launched a payment system when it created the Euro. The fact they're just getting around to it since the Visa/Mastercard duopoly is too strong, shows how weak and ineffective the EU is.
Doesent the US fold every single week? They just folded to Iranians just like they did to China etc. Dont start talking about EU folding when in reality its the US that does the folding lol
Things are not win lose in this game. Just like with itan its not ‘winning’ the military tactics it cant compete, but its winning the actual war by strateg and hitting wher eit matters. The EU does the exact same thing to trump, its nice to his face and then writes data sovereignty laws so us tech in 5 years wont win government contracts.
Its not a win lose game its play and counter play. Your worldview is that you win by your rules of the game, but we never signed up to that metric of how to play, so your ‘folding’ is actually meaning less.
Its like saying lets play foot ball im winning at foot ball, and we are buying your house from you and get a scortching deal on it. The two ways of ‘winning’ are meaningless when your not even agreeding on the rules or even the same game
[OP] 1-randomonium | 9 hours ago
For reference, these Section 301 investigations into "unfair trade" are just a formality that will enable Trump to impose new tariffs of up to 100% on the countries that are being investigated, which includes the EU.
So the other major economies have a double whammy - They have to deal with the consequences of both the war in Iran, any other wars Trump starts, and new ever-expanding tariffs over the next 3 years.
I think it's past time the rest of the G7 and G20 joined hands to tell Trump to just stop and took collective action against America if he didn't.
Elizabeth-WildFox886 | 9 hours ago
Agreed, if all countries teamed up and denied USA access to their markets started fucking around with currencies I think we could cause a depression in USA
ryg191712 | 9 hours ago
We are plenty depressed as is, this shit is embarrassing
GringottsWizardBank | 9 hours ago
You act as though it is a one sided action. Europe cannot do this without sacrificing their own economies that are already on very shaky ground. Between this and the war Europe is in an extremely unenviable position here. Trump knows this, Putin knows this, we all know this.
Reliquary_of_insight | 9 hours ago
There always comes a time when you must decide some sacrifices are worth long term prosperity
GringottsWizardBank | 9 hours ago
So what you’re saying is “short term pain for long term gain”. Funny I keep hearing that from everyone these days. That’s just what people say when they are going to break things and have no idea if or when they will be fixed.
Reliquary_of_insight | 9 hours ago
The alternative is status quo indefinitely. Which is more palatable?
TreatAffectionate453 | 8 hours ago
Pretty sure there are alternatives to the status quo that don't involve the non-US countries intentionally manufacturing a worldwide depression and turning the US into a pissed pariah state with Nukes - like Russia.
One is temporarily placating Trump with worthless promises (e.g., offering Greenland bases that the US was already allowed to have, vague promises of investments in the US, etc.) while transitioning economies away from US reliance at a measured, but not suicidal, rate.
Reliquary_of_insight | 8 hours ago
Do you believe the US will peacefully allow non-US countries to transition away from it, and towards, presumably, its economic rivals? Because that’s the assumption here
Danne660 | 2 hours ago
Yes, it is already happening and if the US try to stop it in any meaningful manner then they are fucked.
Jesse-359 | 2 hours ago
You guys really don't seem to grasp just how insane Trump actually is. I don't mean that rhetorically or politically - the guy is descending into true clinical insanity at this point, and because he has surrounded himself with a cadre of absolute sycophants, there are no 'guardrails' around him at all any more.
So pull up your big boy pants and get ready to deal with whatever comes, because if you think any rational rules apply, you're just wrong.
BigBoyYuyuh | 8 hours ago
Status quo is dead. It’s either bow to Trump or move on without America (as an American I suggest moving on)
Distinct-Job-3083 | 4 hours ago
Or… literally wait 2.5 years. Funny how you completely missed this 3rd option
BigBoyYuyuh | 4 hours ago
One can hope but history has shown he's not a fan of losing power. He's never leaving again.
Second, countries won't trust America for a good long time. We elected Trump. Twice. Once is a fluke, twice is "Something is fucking wrong with that country. We need to stay away until they can earn our trust again."
Distinct-Job-3083 | 3 hours ago
It’s not up to him whether he leaves in 2028…
cultish_alibi | 7 hours ago
The status quo was torn up quite recently, so I'm not sure what you are referring to. The new situation is one that just gets continually worse.
Shemozzlecacophany | 8 hours ago
Very Trumpian really. It does absolutely boggle my mind that everything he's done up to this point has not crashed the US/global economies. Next week however...
MayContainRawNuts | 8 hours ago
The thing is EU economies know they just have to wait 678 days.
The short term pain is just waiting till his term runs out. And it may be even shorter if the midterms go terribly, there is a hope the dems may, frankly grow some balls and put some reigns on him.
Reliquary_of_insight | 8 hours ago
And yet after 678 days of waiting, there is zero guarantee that what comes next is any better. That’s the problem with pinning your futures on a hope that the American voters get it right…
DerpsAndRags | 6 hours ago
If we even still have voting by then.
Waiting on the dumpster fire that this orange parasite has caused to go out is foolhardy. His bullshit is benefitting big business and the ultra-wealthy small interests. They NEVER give back.
I'm just an average dippy American in survival mode in a Red state that just offers generic, static corporate responses when I write or call Congress members. I don't know what else to do.
MayContainRawNuts | 8 hours ago
Maga is a cult of personality, you can see with the defections happening already, even at the charlie kirk seance. Bannon was atracking Shapiro was attacking Owens. MTG has bailed.
From the outside, the maga movement as such is doomed to die a dementia death with its figurehead.
Remember the big business in the EU want a business friend in the whitehouse, and stability. They dont care if abortion rights are a thing or rent is stabilized in new York. They would be perfectly happy with a center right leader long as he is predictable. Anyone as crazy as trump simply cant lead the gop as an institution at the moment. He is unique in that regard.
ILearnedSoMuchToday | 7 hours ago
Congressional GOP is doing this too. They are only enabling this behavior and if they don't get put to the wayside by a majority house and senate willing to fix this shit the next GOP backed president will have the same playbook. God I hope this party degrades into nothingness if we see this through.
Distinct-Job-3083 | 4 hours ago
This is true for literally every government. How are right wing parties doing in places like Germany and Japan, by the way?
EyesOfAzula | 2 hours ago
OK, pay the price yourself and then let’s see how you like it.
rosebomb01 | 8 hours ago
I'm Sure i have heard that somewhere? That's right trump said that a few days ago.
Furiousfistfucker | 8 hours ago
Yes, like short term pain, for long term gain.. /s
Reliquary_of_insight | 8 hours ago
Like working out and exercise, for example.
Yeet-Retreat1 | 8 hours ago
Actually we can.
We already have the euro. We just do the same thing the states does. We write off whatever debt we have and print to back with euros.
Get every other country the U.S has screwed to back it.
Its already started with other countries such as BRICS. Some countries are already buying commodities straight swapping currencies liek the yen.
lemonylol | 6 hours ago
Are you unfamiliar with why the word war is included in the term trade war? Can you fight a war with zero sacrifice?
onebadlion | 6 hours ago
It’s not like Russia and the U.S. are in great shape either.
admax3000 | 7 hours ago
Europe, Japan and China can easily crash the US economy if they want to. There will be blowback but this is the nuclear option that will officially end US dominance.
lemonylol | 6 hours ago
The more the US borrows to fund the war in Iran, the more leverage they give China. China can already sink the entire US economy if they wanted by selling off US treasuries as is.
Distinct-Job-3083 | 4 hours ago
This is such reddit cope
Europe isn’t a relevant power in the way they were 10 years ago. All of these countries have horrible demographics due to age and won’t be relevant in 20 years.
The idea that Europe should crash the US economy after we’ve subsidized their drug R&D for decades, not to mention their defense for decades (when Eastern Europe is at war with Russia…)
No, Japan is not going to engage in economic terrorism against their strongest ally in the world who sells them weapons against their longtime rival, China.
Jesse-359 | 2 hours ago
You guys either learn to rely on each other and build out your trade with the rest of the world and cut yourselves off from the US, or you're going to find yourselves leashed to a very dangerous rabid dog that will absolutely savage you, directly and violently.
Trump isn't going to get any better - he's going to get steadily worse until he's removed from office. He's suffering from severe delusions at this point and Iran is likely just the beginning of his final descent as he grows increasingly politically dangerous and violent.
The US will be very lucky to make it thru the midterms without descending into civil war or violent authoritarianism and permanent martial law.
AwesomePurplePants | 12 minutes ago
At some point planning how to survive the crash can be better than endless concessions to an opponent who keeps playing brinksmanship.
Plus, like, Trump has a pretty solid track record of chickening out under pressure at this point.
d3gaia | 7 hours ago
> denied USA access to their markets
They’d prompt far greater reaction by denying them access to their military bases, ports, and runways. America has thousands of troops and hundreds of bases in Europe and they care far more about those than about European markets
CountMordrek | 9 hours ago
Iran alone will cause a depression in the US if the cost of energy spikes. Sure, Trump’s oil buddies will earn a lot from higher oil prices, but inflated energy prices will ruin everything else.
[OP] 1-randomonium | 9 hours ago
It has a bigger effect on everyone else because the US doesn't depend on the Strait of Hormuz for their oil supplies; Europe and Asia do.
lemonylol | 6 hours ago
People really need to understand what a depression is.
Distinct-Job-3083 | 4 hours ago
I love when people make these bold predictions
Surely you must own a hedge fund if you are so accurate with your analysis
JitteryJoes1986 | 5 hours ago
Peak Reddit comment lmao
Without access to American markets, those countries would starve lmao
Elizabeth-WildFox886 | 3 hours ago
America is utterly dependent on imports, others will survive without new iPhones
DFWPunk | 6 hours ago
Anyone calling for intentionally causing the us to slip into a depression isn't a person to be taken seriously.
Elizabeth-WildFox886 | 6 hours ago
USA threatening to invade and annex Greenland and Canada means USA is a traitorous joke. You writing your comment makes you look like a biased jester
Lor_azepam | 9 hours ago
Thats exactly what mark carney said in davos, either unite together or get pushed around independently. But its been all bark no bite out of the eu the last 15 months.
grindleetcodenonstop | 9 hours ago
The EU is not a country. They can't even agree on whether or not to use frozen Russian funds to support Ukraine. Expecting them to suddenly unite and become a force able to rival the USA is fantasy.
Suitable-Economy-346 | 8 hours ago
> They can't even agree on whether or not to use frozen Russian funds to support Ukraine.
You make that seem like that's the easiest decision ever. Hint, it's not.
petepro | 7 hours ago
Harder than some loans for Ukraine, they failed at that too,
[OP] 1-randomonium | 9 hours ago
Even when their own economies and the reelection prospects of their national leaders are on the line because of this Trumpian crisis?
Lor_azepam | 8 hours ago
Eu cant be a force to face the us alone on trade issues. Thats the whole fucking point. Until they as a group see that they need to be a much larger coalition to have strength in 2026, they fucked
GhostofBeowulf | 9 hours ago
As an American they need to just do it. Few here understand how harmful his policies are until they start affecting their pocket book. Or care maybe IDK.
bk7f2 | 7 hours ago
The EU can tariffs the US services. It will hit the US software giants hard and simultaneously push the EU software industry. Probably, it is still unlikely due to military, economical, and political consequences but the opinions certainly move to this direction along with the process of decaupling. At some point consensus can be ready.
Admirable_Scene_5066 | 6 hours ago
That will hit the EU economy like a brick. Amid rising energy prices you want to make services for where there is no alternative at the moment more expensive for EU companies?
Is it in this sub of all places still not clear how tariffs work? You tariff stuff you can go without, have domestic alternatives, or other alternatives on the world market ex the country you want to target. US IT services fall in neither of those categories.
findingmike | 7 hours ago
Pulling out of US treasuries and the stock market is the smart move
OddlyFactual1512 | 7 hours ago
If the rest of the developed world implemented a full trade embargo against the US until Trump was no longer President, he would be impeached and convicted. They only have power if the act collectively, which seems to be the problem.
DFWPunk | 6 hours ago
That would crash the world economy.
Old_Olive_3852 | 9 hours ago
There isn’t really a good way that the G7, G20 or even the world could deal with Trump. Even if every country in the world were to united against the US and that’s a big if the world will be thrown into a greater depression than the one seen in the 30s when the world’s economies were less interconnected. The US makes up of 30% of the world’s consumer base.
So either you can fight fire with fire and play chicken with a madman. Or you can take the Canadian and Japanese approach and placate him until after the midterms.
[OP] 1-randomonium | 8 hours ago
Trump announced new Section 301 investigations that will allow him to impose up to 100% tariffs by the time the midterms come. He isn't going to get any less belligerent unless he actually faces a serious risk of impeachment for it.
Old_Olive_3852 | 8 hours ago
Trump might get impeached but there is no scenario I could see him getting removed. He was already impeached twice but you need 67 senators to remove him from office. Even under a dream scenario for Democrats in the midterms they won’t have the votes. The last time one party had that many senators was during Johnson presidency.
So really there is nothing a country can do other than wait it out, placate him or call his bluff and risk damaging your own economy.
[OP] 1-randomonium | 8 hours ago
Or it can retaliate with tariffs or sanctions. Trump is actually vulnerable now because he's legally unable to raise tariffs more than 15%(that's why he launched these investigations) for the next 5 months. In that period the EU, Canada, Australia, Japan etc. could join hands and raise tariffs on American goods to 100% unless Trump stopped the war in Iran.
That would force an ending to the immediate pain while teaching Trump a lesson about collective economic power.
bedrooms-ds | 8 hours ago
While I agree the world should retaliate because not doing so will encourage Trumpism more, it's not that simple imho. Problem is, Trump won't care about economic damage to the people. Further chaos is what he actually wants. He will only find a way of personally benefits, and will also be awarded with distraction from Epstein files.
Old_Olive_3852 | 8 hours ago
I don’t think you understand the situation if you even think that is a possibility. The economic side effects would be disastrous. And the effects would be more pronounced on the EU. There is a reason why they haven’t done it yet. The world economy would collapse. Hundreds of millions if not a billion people would die of starvation.
There was an interesting article that was written probably about 10-15 years ago where it talks about how if China wanted to take on the US they wouldn’t do so militarily they would do it economically. At the time China held the majority of the US debt but has since started decoupling. The theory was if they were to dump US’s debt on the market they would crash the US’s economy. But when they analyzed how it would affect their own economy it was worse.
The US has the largest military, world’s reserve currency and has is the largest consumer economy. There is no scenario where a total collapse in the US’s economy doesn’t result in a total collapse of the world economy. Which is why China is playing the smart game. You decouple your economy from the US’s slowly over time as they have. You allow them to overextend themselves militarily, which they have. And you watch as the empire dwindles from the inside.
DFWPunk | 6 hours ago
China has never had anwhere near the majority if US debt.
Old_Olive_3852 | 3 hours ago
I meant foreign holder of debt. It’s almost been domestic holders. But for 10 years starting in the late 2000s became the largest foreign holder of debt. They started selling off a few years ago and Japan became the largest foreign holder.
Appropriate-Art-829 | 7 hours ago
and if you do this - send the world into a depression - , you also solve the billionaire problem as much of their wealth gets wiped out.
Old_Olive_3852 | 7 hours ago
And a billion people could die. Is it worth it?
1-Dollar-Doge-Coins | 3 hours ago
If billionaires fall on hard times, what do you think happens to everyone else?
Lemp_Triscuit11 | 7 hours ago
> They have to deal with the consequences of both the war in Iran, any other wars Trump starts,
It's so grimly funny that this is just a given lol
abc_123_anyname | 8 hours ago
The USA under Trump hasn’t honoured its ratified treaty commitments to Canada under the NAFTA or the USMCA trade deals - what makes the EU’s hand shake deal will stick?
lemonylol | 6 hours ago
Just fyi, tariffs don't apply to anything currently under CUSMA.
abc_123_anyname | 6 hours ago
“Anything” is relative. If a certificate of origin proving its compliance to USMCA/CUSMA isn’t available at clearance then, even though it may comply… the preferred duty rate may not be applied.
A signed “certificate” proving, each component percentage of origin of the goods origin is now critical. Every nut, bolt and spring.
bootsandbigs | 5 hours ago
Steel? Aluminum? Lumber?
lemonylol | 5 hours ago
Not covered under CUSMA.
bootsandbigs | 5 hours ago
Steel, which is listed 117 times in various forms in the US schedule of tariffs under CUSMA, isn't covered under CUSMA?
lemonylol | 5 hours ago
Nothing in CUSMA is a blanket
lopix | 7 hours ago
Good. It warms my heart the more countries and people stand up to Trump. The less he's able to bully and throw his weight around, the better for all of us. A whole bunch of countries united is much harder to fuck with.
CertainCertainties | 9 hours ago
The EU 'warning' somebody is like a poodle 'warning' a pitbull it will kick their ass if the pitbull steals its gourmet dog food.
The US put pressure on the EU with illegal tariffs. The EU folded like a pack of cards. Other countries didn't. The EU did.
Not a single country in the world believes that the EU will stand up for anything right now. If they want to, you know, do something tangible that would be cool. Not going to happen though.
RCer1986 | 8 hours ago
r/ShitAmericansSay
VEMODMASKINEN | 8 hours ago
I'm a swede and I agree.
We threatened a trade bazooka but did fuck all and got fuck all in return.
RCer1986 | 8 hours ago
That doesn't make the EU a "Poodle." Just because they chose not to bite doesn't mean that they don't have teeth.
I_eat_mud_ | 8 hours ago
Has the EU done anything to actually give us any consequences? Idk, the EU seems about as spineless as the Democratic leadership, but I'm sure there are news stories I've missed
RCer1986 | 8 hours ago
They've been working, as a whole, to become less dependent militarily and economically on the US. Significant change takes time.
I_eat_mud_ | 8 hours ago
Brother we're fucking up the oil economy, starting wars, committing war crimes and kidnapping leaders.
Fuckin do something that would be noticeable in the short term for fuck's sake, I bet as soon as another administration comes in the EU backs out of that shit too. They're just like the Dems lmao
AliceLunar | 4 hours ago
Maybe don't elect a pedophile and then tell others to 'do something'.
RCer1986 | 8 hours ago
You're acting like anyone was immediately prepared to deal with a sociopathic puppet for a president. The US doesn't even have measures to effectively deal with it.
I_eat_mud_ | 8 hours ago
Yeah y'all should've fuckin been prepared as soon as he announced his candidacy for 2024. Y'all always say how dumb Americans are, then act shocked when we do stupid fucking shit lmao
RCer1986 | 8 hours ago
It's weird that you're taking this personally and somehow have already forgotten that significant change takes time. Unprecedented events are hard to prepare for.
I_eat_mud_ | 7 hours ago
If I could figure out how much of a shit show this was all gonna be when he announced it back in like 2022, I think anyone with a brain could've seen it lmao
And I would've expected that leaders would've been making plans for that man after the shit show and January 6th shit, and then especially after the Project 2025 leak, but NOPE. Nothin from anyone, no preparation at all from American or European politicians.
And again, I completely expect the EU to back out of that as soon as another administration comes in, they've been letting Orban walk all over them for years. So my bets are they're going to water down pulling away from the US once a friendly administration comes into power.
I'm sure me and you agree on a lot of things, but I'm gonna need to see more initiative from the EU to actually trust they're going to do something, cause this ain't it chief. I'm only upset cause they're about as effective as Democrats at forming a meaningful resistance.
RCer1986 | 7 hours ago
Yeah, not reading all that. You're not a serious person and apparently you think that the world looks like a video game. Shit takes time.
I_eat_mud_ | 8 hours ago
Yeah, but that's not really an immediate consequence, and certainly not one that's going to be noticeable to this administration. We're doing Russia type shit, I'd expect a Russia type response.
Then again, the EU acts slow. Not like they were that harsh on Russia in 2014, took them 8 years and a second invasion to actually stab the knife into Russia.
Edit: sorry, I expect a little more consequences.
rerorerox42 | 8 hours ago
EU as a union is mostly technocratic, no public elections afaik as in member states
I_eat_mud_ | 8 hours ago
I know, it's nice to know that politicians are spineless everywhere at least. EU has been letting Orban walk all over them for years lmao
Maxpowr9 | 6 hours ago
The EU should have launched a payment system when it created the Euro. The fact they're just getting around to it since the Visa/Mastercard duopoly is too strong, shows how weak and ineffective the EU is.
Sam_Munhi | 5 hours ago
No public elections? What?
CertainCertainties | 8 hours ago
No, r/ShitDisappointedNon-AmericansSay.
averysmallbeing | 7 hours ago
Lame retort
Comfortable_Train189 | 8 hours ago
Doesent the US fold every single week? They just folded to Iranians just like they did to China etc. Dont start talking about EU folding when in reality its the US that does the folding lol
Alib668 | 8 hours ago
U are a literal moron.
Things are not win lose in this game. Just like with itan its not ‘winning’ the military tactics it cant compete, but its winning the actual war by strateg and hitting wher eit matters. The EU does the exact same thing to trump, its nice to his face and then writes data sovereignty laws so us tech in 5 years wont win government contracts. Its not a win lose game its play and counter play. Your worldview is that you win by your rules of the game, but we never signed up to that metric of how to play, so your ‘folding’ is actually meaning less.
Its like saying lets play foot ball im winning at foot ball, and we are buying your house from you and get a scortching deal on it. The two ways of ‘winning’ are meaningless when your not even agreeding on the rules or even the same game