All General Practitioners are trained to spot clinical depression and can usually get someone on antidepressants so they don't harm/kill themselves or others. If you feel suicidal, you can literally go to an emergency room and get like a week or two worth of antidepressants. General Practitioners are usually the first ones to identify things like depression that needs medication because people don't just pop into a psychiatrists office once a year.
“Spotting” depression is a wee bit different than giving accurate clinical diagnosis, let’s not even get into treatment du jour being arguably no better than placebo. If it’s bad enough that a person is suicidal they definitely need more help than a GP or ER visit, but do you think they get a referral or even told they should see a pro?
>let’s not even get into treatment du jour being arguably no better than placebo.
No, no, let's. I'd love to see some data supporting the assertion that antidepressants are no better than placebos.
>If it’s bad enough that a person is suicidal they definitely need more help than a GP or ER visit, but do you think they get a referral or even told they should see a pro?
Have you ever actually gone through this process, or are you just basing your opinions on what you think the process is?
Are you to argue that giving someone a script and sending them about their merry way is effective treatment? I wish I could find the paper, metaanalysis showing a positive response rate of one in three for SSRIs as first line treatment but that tracks very well with observation, both in and out of clinic
As for procedure, I have indeed been to the ER and had very stupid things happen to me, thanks for asking
Out of desperation I showed up at my primary care's office, because I couldn't get in with psych on short notice, and frankly I wasn't in a great state to be thinking rationally. I was lucky - he was taking the afternoon off and chose to stay and talk to me for about an hour, and yes - he did prescribe me an SSRI, and encouraged me to at least find a counselor.
I chose a church counselor, which again, was not a wise choice. They were worse than not helpful, making suggestions with huge ramifications that would have made things worse.
I did, after several months of waiting, get in with a psych and a proper counselor.
Demonizing GP's prescribing SSRIs is worse than idiotic. It will cause people to die.
I literally would not be here to make this argument otherwise.
Psychiatrists are behind a serious paywall. You have to go through your general practitioner just to see one. It's easier when a GP can help out because they can help you in one session where as psychiatrists are like let me see you 25 more times and drain your bank account before I offer you any help.
Not true and also not actually relevant. They have extreme health effects and cause terrible dependence.
I know they are marketed very well. Better even than benzos once were. It is playing out the same way though. Just more people are affected. We are decades past when you could actually claim they are either safe or effective.
The real issue is bigger though. It is more about an industry that is effectively self regulated and repeating the same mistake over and over. If you look at the percent of people hooked on them I doubt there is anything in history to cause more harm or misery.
I really suggest you look into the long term effects and the really questionable short term benefits before you spout any more nonsense. You have made it very obvious that you just know nothing about it.
>Are you to argue that giving someone a script and sending them about their merry way is effective treatment?
Do you think that's how it actually happens?
>I wish I could find the paper, metaanalysis showing a positive response rate of one in three for SSRIs as first line treatment but that tracks very well with observation, both in and out of clinic
Feel free to let me know when you do. I'll wait with baited breath until then.
>I have indeed been to the ER and had very stupid things happen to me, thanks for asking
So you haven't gone through the process of being diagnosed with depression or prescribed anti-depressants? Cool. Thanks for answering my question in the most convoluted manner you could manage. Feel free to let me know how getting a cast for your broken leg or stitches for a nasty cut gives you any insight into how clinical depression is diagnosed or treated.
All of them basically. There is better evidence that the majority of people find them detrimental even. Almost anything is a better option. A short walk is more effective.
It isn’t like they cure people. They intoxicate people. If a persons situation isn’t serious enough that you would consider mdma daily as a reasonable option than you shouldn’t consider ADs.
>There is better evidence that the majority of people find them detrimental even.
So it should be remarkably easy for you to produce this evidence, no?
>It isn’t like they cure people.
I don't think anyone who actually understands what they're supposed to do is under the impression that they cure depression. They treat the symptoms of depression to make it more manageable. In fact, the only people who seem to have that misapprehension also seem to be the only people comparing them to placebos.
>If a persons situation isn’t serious enough that you would consider mdma daily as a reasonable option than you shouldn’t consider ADs.
Who here is talking about MDMA? We're talking about SSRIs, and the fact that nobody here who's voicing their opposition to them can seem to scrounge up any tangible evidence to support their assertions.
Maybe you shouldn't be trying to pass of your (ill-founded) personal opinions as anything more than what they are.
Yea you know nothing about them obviously. Or anything really.
I would recommend learning a bit before posting more.
The mdma is the most apt comparison. Yes it isn’t perfect. It is like comparing alcohol to benzos. In both causes comparable levels of the intoxicants considered recreational are actually less harmful than the intoxicants considered therapeutic. That is how these things should be considered. Not just casually marketed to everyone like they are health products.
I realize you are just ignorant and gullible. That is why the marketing worked so well. Most people are.
Excellent rebuttal. Lemme know when you manage to find one of those numerous studies that supports your assertion. Here's mine:
>71%–77% of participants reported positive responses to SSRIs. Non-response was significantly associated with alcohol and illicit drug use (OR = 1.59, p = 2.23 × 10−20), male gender (OR = 1.25, p = 8.29 × 10−08), and lower-income (OR = 1.35, p = 4.22 × 10−07). The worst episode lasting over 2 years (OR = 1.93, p = 3.87 × 10−16) and no mood improvement from positive events (OR = 1.35, p = 2.37 × 10−07) were also associated with non-response. CYP2C19 poor metabolizers had nominally higher non-response rates (OR = 1.31, p = 1.77 × 10−02). Higher PGS for depression (OR = 1.08, p = 3.37 × 10−05) predicted negative SSRI outcomes after multiple testing corrections.
>Effectiveness of Antidepressants
Antidepressants are generally effective for many individuals. Studies have shown that around 50-60% of people with major depressive disorder (MDD) experience significant improvement with antidepressant treatment. However, this also means that 40-50% do not achieve full remission, and some may experience little to no benefit. The reasons for this variability are multifaceted and involve a combination of genetic, biological, psychological, and social factors.
It is a waste of time unless you are actually interested in how the studies are done. How they are analyzed and the many many limitations.
If you want to see a skeptic point out the flaws then check out david healys videos. There is one where he mostly just goes over the studies. He still practices and uses some of these drugs even but with great care and a lot more caution. He knows the risks.
This is nonsense. The antidepressant epidemic mostly exists because of the casual prescribing by GPs. These aren’t safe or effective drugs to be used so casually.
What GPs should be doing is looking for lifestyle and physical causes and trying to correct those.
When i had my mental break and first severe anxiety attack, there was a 3+ month wait to see a psychiatrist or therapist in my area. Getting perscribed antidepressants and anti-anxiety medication from a GP is the reason I'm still here. Like it has been said, we have a huge shortage of psychiatrists in the US, and most people don't know to immediately go to one when they start showing signs if depression. I didn't, and it was about 2 months of depression symptoms before i had a crippling anxiety attack.
Antidepressants get you out of the hole, and most people don't need to be on them long-term with therapy and other help, but if they can't get therapy and other help, then antidepressants pretty much keep them from killing themselves or worse, going into homicidal depression which is a thing.
Anecdotal and also not true. There is a great risk that antidepressants will make a person dangerously unstable. That risk is greatly underestimated even though well proven in even the very limited short term studies used to market them.
They are extremely intoxicating. I get it. Some people think that benefits them.
The fact is that most people are on them long term. They are not used or marketed as you say. They are tossed at every person with very understandable reasons for distress and they prevent recovery.
It is just the same story over and over with this industry.
He's trying to impress his boss who is a massive anti drug and alcohol guy.
We also live in an age of vice signaling where demonstrating cruelty is what gets you more support from conservative parties and their voters.
Nearly every single policy decision from this administration has been aimed at causing harm. It is as though they really are demons from hell pretending to be people and are trying very hard to cause as much suffering as they can.
But is probably up there in terms of lifetime cumulative stimulants consumed.
Remember the photos from his first term that showed pill containers like…everywhere? Which led to people linking it to a lot of older photos fitting the same pattern?
Or the sheer amount of stimulants + sleep meds from the White House pharmacy record of controlled substances from that term? Fancy boy insists on brand name drugs only on our dime. His extra expenses in single details like this alone cost more than his “donated” salary.
Didn’t this guy claim in an interview that he benefited in some way from using herion? I could swear he claimed that it fixed his ADHD or depression or something.
Politicians are legit murdering people with mental disorders and then when there is an assassination attempt on 1 of those ghouls, everyone needs to condemn political violence. What is this, ICE and the bombing of schoolgirls, if not political violence on a national/global scale?
I suspect he has Parkinson’s in addition to the neurological disease affecting his vocal cords. My father and grandfather had it, and I’ve noticed a very slight tremor in this guy’s hands once or twice, plus sort of an odd, flat facial expression at times that’s hard to describe, but it’s one of those things you recognize. His public appearances seem to be increasingly brief.
Anyway, all this to say that the standard treatment for Parkinson’s is Levodopa, a drug that crosses the blood-brain barrier to stimulate dopamine production in the brain. (Heroin boosts dopamine the most.)
So it’s interesting to me that someone who is not a physician and who has multiple varieties of brain damage himself believes that *SSRIs* prescribed for depression are addictive and lead to violent behavior. Another reminder that he’s incredibly unqualified and dangerous in his current role.
If he manages to strong arm the medical community so that I cannot get my meds anymore, as my mental health deteriorates because of his actions, I will be sure to obsessively focus on him to impress upon my mind that he is the one to blame .
When my ability to control my actions and thoughts deteriorates enough, who knows what my mind will decide to do?
It's more like that they adhere to strict social darwinism and they loathe the fruits of intelligence. Both the religious wingnuts (who thinks diseases are something god sent you because you deserved it) and the MAHA paleo-conservatives (who think that if you can't make it on your own then you were just a weak).
He should ask for the return of the lobotomy treatment they did on his aunt. It worked like a charm on her. She was totally healthy and functional afterward. No antidepressants anymore.
Lol its the second great depression, this one hits twice as hard as really what future does america even have once the theives are done stripping the copper out of the white house walls
But antidepressants don't cause you to nod out and fall asleep in the middle of your life, heroin does that. Not to mention taking a pill doesn't give you an infection in your arm or HIV like taking a needle drug does. This guy is wildly moronic. If we take away meds from all the bipolar people things are going to get real weird, as if they aren't weird enough.
Yeah, he can do that, then come visit me after about a week, so he can tell me how much better off I am while I literally throw him across the room. Good times!
“This article concurs with a growing number of physicians and researchers who caution against indiscriminate long-term antidepressant treatment.8–11,55 Currently, there is no reliable evidence that long-term antidepressant treatment is beneficial and there are legitimate concerns that it may be largely ineffective or even harmful in a substantial portion of users.10,11,16,55,96 It is particularly problematic that we have almost no data on antidepressants’ long-term effects on objective measures of social functioning (e.g. employment and disability rates) and patient-oriented outcomes such as quality of life. A critical reappraisal of current treatment guidelines along these lines is required. However, in keeping with the logical principle of ‘absence of evidence is not evidence of absence’ we must remain mindful that long-term antidepressant use may be useful to some patients.97 It is therefore important to conduct large real-world effectiveness trials that can adequately evaluate antidepressants’ long-term effects on depression symptoms, social functioning and quality of life. Classic long-term parallel-arm placebo-controlled trials are the preferred methodology. Discontinuation trials should be avoided unless they apply very slow and individually tailored tapers and carefully discriminate withdrawal reactions from genuine depression relapses. Finally, it would also be worthwhile to focus more generally on influences of industry-sponsorship and authors’ conflicts of interest,10,98 as these may systematically bias the literature on the risks and benefits of antidepressants.36,99–102”
Nah, as a physician, this ain't it. Wanting to tighten prescribing guidelines and reevaluate longitudinal studies on the necessity of lifetime use for SSRIs is not the same thing as saying antidepressants are bad and most people don't need them.
RFK thinks along the lines of r/thanksimcured. "Antidepressants are poison, just eat meat and exercise shirtless in your blue jeans," would be more in line with his take. He feels the same about stimulants and other ADHD meds, literally thinks sending them to camps to "toughen them up" or "straighten them out" will "fix" them instead.
You're lending credibility to a dangerous figurehead, don't sanewash his actual beliefs just because he backpedals when testifying or could otherwise be held legally liable. Just ask the dead kids in Samoa who didn't get the MMR vaccine because of the immeasurable harm RFK has stoked with his conspiracy, antivax, antiscience bullshit.
This year alone we have roughly 500 kids just in North Carolina and more in Texas infected with measles because of this clown perpetuating the long-disproven quackery of Andrew Wakefield and his ilk. He witholds COVID vaccine data because they couldn't cherry pick bad results from the study. He badmouths vaccines only to walk it back in senate hearings to meekly mumble "well they should ask doctors not me" and "the MMR vaccine is still recommended."
It needs to be made much more clear in your statement that RFK's belief are more aligned with looksmaxing dipshits than academic journal articles of repute. They take a legitimate scientific concept like "bones remodel from chronic stressors" and "SSRI prescribing criteria may be overly broad out of an abundance of caution," and they flip it around into ignorant ideas with zero basis in reality like "smashing your face with a hammer over and over will give you a square jaw" and "the people on antidepressants don't really need them."
Absolutely nothing of value can be taken from anything this man says. People like him are dangerous because they exploit scientific skepticism and evidence-based decision making, which inherently make less absolute claims than the quacks exploiting ignorance. Confidently wrong is still wrong, but human psychology means the masses want to buy into it.
You need a big fat asterisk any time you're explaining the kernel of truth grifters like RFK extrapolate their lies from.
You probably meant "as usual with these people, if you dig long enough you can backwards reason a shred of a reason". Just as with all other stupid ass conspiracists.
But for them the speck of truth was never the point? It was just whatever the handy excuse they found at the beginning of their careers to pretend to be the underdogs against "the system". Be it "we have concerns with reproducibility of studies", or the existence of a pedo-island.
Yep. It is just the latest epidemic of this industry. Playing out like that barbituate and benzo epidemics but worse. People really marketed them well this time.
From experience, people who have been diagnosed with mental illness, and should be on antidepressants, will resist all efforts to stay on them …
RFK equating the two drugs together is pretty telling. He is telling me that “I should be on antidepressant’s but I’m not, and that’s ok”
My experience person, uses this quack’s rhetoric as justification to not be on them and says things like “I just need vitamins” ….. “no honey you need Zoloft right now” …
I’ve spent a year slowly tapering off one now two anti-depressants after 30 years on them and it will take at least another year, if I want to avoid crippling anxiety attacks, sleeplessness, and chronic diarrhea. The medical profession, big pharma and psychiatrists are way behind and assume everyone can get off these drugs in weeks. Some can, but many people’s lives are ruined when they try to get off these medications too quickly. This guy has NO clue what he is talking about!
I mean antidepressants aren’t great if you look at the research, and while they do help some people, the effect for most people is barely above the placebo. And they have awful and sometimes permanent side effects. They are definitely pushed on patients more than they should be. Not a fan of this though.
I get why people feel that way, antidepressants are not magic and side effects are real. But the “barely better than placebo” thing gets repeated without the full context. Big meta analyses actually do find a consistent benefit over placebo, especially once you get into moderate to severe depression. The Cipriani et al. 2018 Lancet review looked at hundreds of trials and found every antidepressant they studied beat placebo on average, and not just “barely.”
Side effects matter, but the idea that they are usually permanent is not what shows up in the data. Most are manageable or improve when you adjust the dose or switch meds. In practice it is not about pushing pills on everyone, it is about having another option that can make a meaningful difference for some people, especially when combined with therapy.
I see where you are coming from, but I saw that study, and we’ll have to agree to disagree on what a difference they make or how “manageable” permanent side effects are. There’s not a movement of people who identify as victims of gastroenterology, but psychiatry has that. I think that says a lot. And pharm companies absolutely make a killing on these drugs and incentive prescribing them.
Again I’m not saying get rid of them, and I’m not trying to take hope away from people who do benefit, but it’s important to keep the conversation realistic to people’s lived experiences with these meds.
So SSRIs don't produce "addiction" in the same sense as heroin. It's also questionable to bring up a story of a family member, because we don't know what is a "rebound" effect from stopping an antidepressant, and what is just the "untreated depression" manifesting itself.
That said, I'm taking the side of RFK Jr. here. There are particular cases of people trying to come off the SSRI (especially) Paroxetine, or the SNRI Venlafaxine, that probably are (much) worse than coming off heroin. Generally speaking, antidepressant withdrawal may be fairly mild in many cases; but there are some horror stories, and I don't believe it can all be blamed on just the "underlying depression" coming back.
There is nothing in principle "wrong" with making this kind of comparison to heroin. However, the nuance of his exact point will no doubt be lost in much of the discussion.
People who stop drinking have dangerous withdrawal. So we should ban alcohol? I mean, it doesn't have ANY real data backing up ANY justifiable benefit, so it's obvious that we shouldn't allow anyone to take it, regardless. In fact, if I -- someone who doesn't need supplemental insulin -- were to take a bunch of insulin, I'd probably have a bad time. We should probably ban that, too. In fact, ANYTHING that doesn't work 100% of the time, and anything with side effects of any sort shouldn't be allowed; that includes all surgeries. RFK's a moron. If you read him and think "wow, gotta hand one to him," you should reexamine your life.
>People who stop drinking have dangerous withdrawal. So we should ban alcohol? I mean, it doesn't have ANY real data backing up ANY justifiable benefit, so it's obvious that we shouldn't allow anyone to take it, regardless. In fact, if I -- someone who doesn't need supplemental insulin -- were to take a bunch of insulin, I'd probably have a bad time. We should probably ban that, too. In fact, ANYTHING that doesn't work 100% of the time, and anything with side effects of any sort shouldn't be allowed; that includes all surgeries. RFK's a moron. If you read him and think "wow, gotta hand one to him," you should reexamine your life
I'm pretty sure he didn't call for a ban, so you're attacking a fantasy position.
Stop sane washing him. He isn't saying "particular cases" and sure, you could find a few that are worse than you average heroin withdraw. He is saying that on average ssri withdraw is worse than heroin withdraw.
He is also not saying "let's consider the research and pick an alternative" which many imagine would be an empirically established therapy or other medication. He is saying "His suggested solution is for black children to be “reparented” and work on farms."
These institutions are not proven to be sucessful, are notorious for abuse, and wow so racisist. Try to picture why his base loves him and this rhetoric.
>Stop sane washing him. He isn't saying "particular cases" and sure, you could find a few that are worse than you average heroin withdraw. He is saying that on average ssri withdraw is worse than heroin withdraw.
I was responding to him saying, "can be more difficult than withdrawal from heroin".
Can you point to a source where he says something like, "on average SSRI withdrawal is worse than heroin withdrawal"?
>Quitting coffee can be harder than quitting heroin for someone somewhere. It is a meaningless statement. Would you base huge changes in health care policy, and recommending the least substantiated treatments on a tiny minority of cases?
>Your rush to point out he did not explicitly say "averages" is very disingenous, because he is explicitly pushing an agenda that massively overstates the costs and ignores the costs of his transition. His behavior and refusal to acknowledge it is rare is the key. Not some semantic plausible deniability.
A small minority of cases can still be relevant to "informed consent" which is one of the things he was interested in.
Quitting coffee can be harder than quitting heroin for someone somewhere. It is a meaningless statement. Would you base huge changes in health care policy, and recommending the least substantiated treatments on a tiny minority of cases?
Your rush to point out he did not explicitly say "averages" is very disingenous, because he is explicitly pushing an agenda that massively overstates the costs and ignores the costs of his transition. His behavior and refusal to acknowledge it is rare is the key. Not some semantic plausible deniability.
Lmfao I don't want to hear shit about "nuance of his exact point" when you just said coming off antidepressants is "much worse" than heroin and the fact that you don't understand the nuance of why it's bad to associate life saving mental health medication with a street drug that kills millions and users labeled "junkies"
A more apt comparison would be that they are like time release mdma. Even the harms are pretty much identical. One increases levels of some things over time and one increases the effect of most of the same things. The effect is similar though.
I hate to have anything in common with this moron but this is one thing that does need to be looked into. He obviously has no real knowledge on the topic though.
Absolutely! Especially about long-term effects. Not to say anything should be banned outright, but more honesty about their mechnism, safety, efficacy.
Same logic that makes americans fuck with venezuelans, cubans, and Iranians, if you suffer enough you will eventually do something to take back your country
If you just have every american on medication and opioids that wont happen
InvestmentLong6645 | 19 days ago
How would he compare that to the cocaine he did off the back of that toilet that “one” time ?
Oalka | 19 days ago
I mean he was literally a known heroin addict
InvestmentLong6645 | 19 days ago
I hope he takes it back up
Kahnza | 18 days ago
WHOOPS! It's all Fent! ☠️
InvestmentLong6645 | 19 days ago
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Thundersson1978 | 19 days ago
He doesn’t remember that decade, so it never happened…
smp501 | 18 days ago
The brain worm ate those memories.
tebla | 19 days ago
wow I guess decisions about medical treatments should be left to specialist, instead of idiots
itswtfeverb | 18 days ago
RFK knows more than all the doctors and specialists in the world. (Edit: anyone who thinks this is a serious comment is definitely slow)
Many_Advice_1021 | 18 days ago
Just like Trump. Delusional
itswtfeverb | 18 days ago
Surely you know what sarcasm is?
diablosinmusica | 18 days ago
Sarcasm has been broken by the reality we now live in.
AcanthisittaNo6653 | 18 days ago
That's the spirit!
Exotic-Skirt5849 | 19 days ago
Aka psychiatrists, not GPs
powerlesshero111 | 18 days ago
All General Practitioners are trained to spot clinical depression and can usually get someone on antidepressants so they don't harm/kill themselves or others. If you feel suicidal, you can literally go to an emergency room and get like a week or two worth of antidepressants. General Practitioners are usually the first ones to identify things like depression that needs medication because people don't just pop into a psychiatrists office once a year.
Exotic-Skirt5849 | 18 days ago
“Spotting” depression is a wee bit different than giving accurate clinical diagnosis, let’s not even get into treatment du jour being arguably no better than placebo. If it’s bad enough that a person is suicidal they definitely need more help than a GP or ER visit, but do you think they get a referral or even told they should see a pro?
krunkstoppable | 18 days ago
>let’s not even get into treatment du jour being arguably no better than placebo.
No, no, let's. I'd love to see some data supporting the assertion that antidepressants are no better than placebos.
>If it’s bad enough that a person is suicidal they definitely need more help than a GP or ER visit, but do you think they get a referral or even told they should see a pro?
Have you ever actually gone through this process, or are you just basing your opinions on what you think the process is?
Exotic-Skirt5849 | 18 days ago
Are you to argue that giving someone a script and sending them about their merry way is effective treatment? I wish I could find the paper, metaanalysis showing a positive response rate of one in three for SSRIs as first line treatment but that tracks very well with observation, both in and out of clinic
As for procedure, I have indeed been to the ER and had very stupid things happen to me, thanks for asking
numbski | 18 days ago
Okay, formerly deeply, deeply suicidal here.
Out of desperation I showed up at my primary care's office, because I couldn't get in with psych on short notice, and frankly I wasn't in a great state to be thinking rationally. I was lucky - he was taking the afternoon off and chose to stay and talk to me for about an hour, and yes - he did prescribe me an SSRI, and encouraged me to at least find a counselor.
I chose a church counselor, which again, was not a wise choice. They were worse than not helpful, making suggestions with huge ramifications that would have made things worse.
I did, after several months of waiting, get in with a psych and a proper counselor.
Demonizing GP's prescribing SSRIs is worse than idiotic. It will cause people to die.
I literally would not be here to make this argument otherwise.
sweetica | 18 days ago
Psychiatrists are behind a serious paywall. You have to go through your general practitioner just to see one. It's easier when a GP can help out because they can help you in one session where as psychiatrists are like let me see you 25 more times and drain your bank account before I offer you any help.
numbski | 18 days ago
That wasn't my experience. Can't speak to others'.
Cultural-Window-2504 | 18 days ago
You really shouldn’t spout this nonsense. You are going to kill the few people gullible enough to listen to you.
LaminatedAirplane | 18 days ago
That’s interesting because the majority of people using SSRIs say they’re helpful and improve their quality of life.
Cultural-Window-2504 | 18 days ago
Not true and also not actually relevant. They have extreme health effects and cause terrible dependence.
I know they are marketed very well. Better even than benzos once were. It is playing out the same way though. Just more people are affected. We are decades past when you could actually claim they are either safe or effective.
The real issue is bigger though. It is more about an industry that is effectively self regulated and repeating the same mistake over and over. If you look at the percent of people hooked on them I doubt there is anything in history to cause more harm or misery.
I really suggest you look into the long term effects and the really questionable short term benefits before you spout any more nonsense. You have made it very obvious that you just know nothing about it.
krunkstoppable | 18 days ago
>Are you to argue that giving someone a script and sending them about their merry way is effective treatment?
Do you think that's how it actually happens?
>I wish I could find the paper, metaanalysis showing a positive response rate of one in three for SSRIs as first line treatment but that tracks very well with observation, both in and out of clinic
Feel free to let me know when you do. I'll wait with baited breath until then.
>I have indeed been to the ER and had very stupid things happen to me, thanks for asking
So you haven't gone through the process of being diagnosed with depression or prescribed anti-depressants? Cool. Thanks for answering my question in the most convoluted manner you could manage. Feel free to let me know how getting a cast for your broken leg or stitches for a nasty cut gives you any insight into how clinical depression is diagnosed or treated.
OnlyTemperature4911 | 18 days ago
Quick google search told me that 75% of people on SSRIs report that they are helpful sooooooOoOo
Cultural-Window-2504 | 18 days ago
All of them basically. There is better evidence that the majority of people find them detrimental even. Almost anything is a better option. A short walk is more effective.
It isn’t like they cure people. They intoxicate people. If a persons situation isn’t serious enough that you would consider mdma daily as a reasonable option than you shouldn’t consider ADs.
krunkstoppable | 18 days ago
>There is better evidence that the majority of people find them detrimental even.
So it should be remarkably easy for you to produce this evidence, no?
>It isn’t like they cure people.
I don't think anyone who actually understands what they're supposed to do is under the impression that they cure depression. They treat the symptoms of depression to make it more manageable. In fact, the only people who seem to have that misapprehension also seem to be the only people comparing them to placebos.
>If a persons situation isn’t serious enough that you would consider mdma daily as a reasonable option than you shouldn’t consider ADs.
Who here is talking about MDMA? We're talking about SSRIs, and the fact that nobody here who's voicing their opposition to them can seem to scrounge up any tangible evidence to support their assertions.
Maybe you shouldn't be trying to pass of your (ill-founded) personal opinions as anything more than what they are.
Cultural-Window-2504 | 18 days ago
Yea you know nothing about them obviously. Or anything really.
I would recommend learning a bit before posting more.
The mdma is the most apt comparison. Yes it isn’t perfect. It is like comparing alcohol to benzos. In both causes comparable levels of the intoxicants considered recreational are actually less harmful than the intoxicants considered therapeutic. That is how these things should be considered. Not just casually marketed to everyone like they are health products.
I realize you are just ignorant and gullible. That is why the marketing worked so well. Most people are.
krunkstoppable | 18 days ago
Excellent rebuttal. Lemme know when you manage to find one of those numerous studies that supports your assertion. Here's mine:
>71%–77% of participants reported positive responses to SSRIs. Non-response was significantly associated with alcohol and illicit drug use (OR = 1.59, p = 2.23 × 10−20), male gender (OR = 1.25, p = 8.29 × 10−08), and lower-income (OR = 1.35, p = 4.22 × 10−07). The worst episode lasting over 2 years (OR = 1.93, p = 3.87 × 10−16) and no mood improvement from positive events (OR = 1.35, p = 2.37 × 10−07) were also associated with non-response. CYP2C19 poor metabolizers had nominally higher non-response rates (OR = 1.31, p = 1.77 × 10−02). Higher PGS for depression (OR = 1.08, p = 3.37 × 10−05) predicted negative SSRI outcomes after multiple testing corrections.
Sociodemographic, clinical, and genetic factors associated with self-reported antidepressant response outcomes in the UK Biobank | Psychological Medicine | Cambridge Core
>Effectiveness of Antidepressants
Antidepressants are generally effective for many individuals. Studies have shown that around 50-60% of people with major depressive disorder (MDD) experience significant improvement with antidepressant treatment. However, this also means that 40-50% do not achieve full remission, and some may experience little to no benefit. The reasons for this variability are multifaceted and involve a combination of genetic, biological, psychological, and social factors.
The Effectiveness of Antidepressants: Why They Work for Some and Not for Others | Carlos Parnell, MD PA - Excellence in OB/GYN
Cheers 😄
Cultural-Window-2504 | 18 days ago
I could list and analyze a hundred too.
It is a waste of time unless you are actually interested in how the studies are done. How they are analyzed and the many many limitations.
If you want to see a skeptic point out the flaws then check out david healys videos. There is one where he mostly just goes over the studies. He still practices and uses some of these drugs even but with great care and a lot more caution. He knows the risks.
Cultural-Window-2504 | 18 days ago
This is nonsense. The antidepressant epidemic mostly exists because of the casual prescribing by GPs. These aren’t safe or effective drugs to be used so casually.
What GPs should be doing is looking for lifestyle and physical causes and trying to correct those.
powerlesshero111 | 18 days ago
When i had my mental break and first severe anxiety attack, there was a 3+ month wait to see a psychiatrist or therapist in my area. Getting perscribed antidepressants and anti-anxiety medication from a GP is the reason I'm still here. Like it has been said, we have a huge shortage of psychiatrists in the US, and most people don't know to immediately go to one when they start showing signs if depression. I didn't, and it was about 2 months of depression symptoms before i had a crippling anxiety attack.
Antidepressants get you out of the hole, and most people don't need to be on them long-term with therapy and other help, but if they can't get therapy and other help, then antidepressants pretty much keep them from killing themselves or worse, going into homicidal depression which is a thing.
Cultural-Window-2504 | 18 days ago
Anecdotal and also not true. There is a great risk that antidepressants will make a person dangerously unstable. That risk is greatly underestimated even though well proven in even the very limited short term studies used to market them.
They are extremely intoxicating. I get it. Some people think that benefits them.
The fact is that most people are on them long term. They are not used or marketed as you say. They are tossed at every person with very understandable reasons for distress and they prevent recovery.
It is just the same story over and over with this industry.
Ebella2323 | 19 days ago
What’s his beef with heroin all of a sudden? Didn’t it help him get through college???
Grabbioli | 19 days ago
Yeah, when did that start being a bad comparison for him?
Vanillas_Guy | 18 days ago
He's trying to impress his boss who is a massive anti drug and alcohol guy.
We also live in an age of vice signaling where demonstrating cruelty is what gets you more support from conservative parties and their voters.
Nearly every single policy decision from this administration has been aimed at causing harm. It is as though they really are demons from hell pretending to be people and are trying very hard to cause as much suffering as they can.
kikiacab | 18 days ago
If I remember correctly trump prides himself on the fact that he doesn’t drink alcohol or smoke tobacco
craznazn247 | 18 days ago
But is probably up there in terms of lifetime cumulative stimulants consumed.
Remember the photos from his first term that showed pill containers like…everywhere? Which led to people linking it to a lot of older photos fitting the same pattern?
Or the sheer amount of stimulants + sleep meds from the White House pharmacy record of controlled substances from that term? Fancy boy insists on brand name drugs only on our dime. His extra expenses in single details like this alone cost more than his “donated” salary.
woolsocksandsandals | 19 days ago
Didn’t this guy claim in an interview that he benefited in some way from using herion? I could swear he claimed that it fixed his ADHD or depression or something.
Hour_Welcome_987 | 18 days ago
Pretty effective temporary bandaid for depression ngl
ActuatorTasty4982 | 18 days ago
Like magic, thank god the buprenorphine they gave me to get off actually worked the same way once enough time passed. Now I have my life back.
Lestat_de_Sade | 19 days ago
Politicians are legit murdering people with mental disorders and then when there is an assassination attempt on 1 of those ghouls, everyone needs to condemn political violence. What is this, ICE and the bombing of schoolgirls, if not political violence on a national/global scale?
mirh | 18 days ago
No, no, no. It's only when it happens to right wing dipshits that practically begged for it, that everyone has to condemn violence.
When Paul Pelosi got his head hammered, these ghouls were pretty much laughing and meming.
WhatFreshHello | 19 days ago
I suspect he has Parkinson’s in addition to the neurological disease affecting his vocal cords. My father and grandfather had it, and I’ve noticed a very slight tremor in this guy’s hands once or twice, plus sort of an odd, flat facial expression at times that’s hard to describe, but it’s one of those things you recognize. His public appearances seem to be increasingly brief.
Anyway, all this to say that the standard treatment for Parkinson’s is Levodopa, a drug that crosses the blood-brain barrier to stimulate dopamine production in the brain. (Heroin boosts dopamine the most.)
So it’s interesting to me that someone who is not a physician and who has multiple varieties of brain damage himself believes that *SSRIs* prescribed for depression are addictive and lead to violent behavior. Another reminder that he’s incredibly unqualified and dangerous in his current role.
jcooli09 | 19 days ago
I guess he doesn't think we have enough violence In this country.
Ms_Emilys_Picture | 19 days ago
We need to get those suicide numbers up!
mirh | 18 days ago
Giving away guns like candy already helps with that.
tsfbdl | 18 days ago
[ Removed by Reddit ]
briank2112 | 18 days ago
Yes, republicans, you helped make an ex-heroin addict who has sniffed coke off of toilet seats the secretary of health. Way to go…
Unique-Coffee5087 | 18 days ago
If he manages to strong arm the medical community so that I cannot get my meds anymore, as my mental health deteriorates because of his actions, I will be sure to obsessively focus on him to impress upon my mind that he is the one to blame .
When my ability to control my actions and thoughts deteriorates enough, who knows what my mind will decide to do?
Scary_Towel268 | 19 days ago
I’m sorry he’s compared antidepressants to what now???
Usual_Ad_2177 | 18 days ago
To be fair, he knows much more about heroin than any of us do.
75bytes | 19 days ago
welcome to modern US conspirologist kakistocracy
mirh | 18 days ago
It's more like that they adhere to strict social darwinism and they loathe the fruits of intelligence. Both the religious wingnuts (who thinks diseases are something god sent you because you deserved it) and the MAHA paleo-conservatives (who think that if you can't make it on your own then you were just a weak).
terrorrier | 18 days ago
Before antidepressants, treatments included lovely options like institutionalization and lobotomy. Wonder if he knows anything about that.
bunnypaste | 18 days ago
Why is he aiming to curb antidepressants and not depression itself?
Mysterious-Prompt212 | 18 days ago
You know what would cure depression? Firing this lunatic.
Ok_Field_8860 | 19 days ago
What an idiot
Pabu85 | 19 days ago
RFK, RFK, how many kids did you kill today?
myipisavpn | 19 days ago
Can someone just curb him?
Trimshot | 19 days ago
If I lose my antidepressants I can kiss my marriage goodbye. 😂
cenosillicaphobiac | 18 days ago
Now do testosterone shots and boner pills, I dare you.
Drugs he takes are a-ok, but everything else is weakness and the people that need them should just die already.
No_Rain3020 | 19 days ago
Hes such an idiot
the_red_scimitar | 18 days ago
This sounds like the anti-psychiatry propaganda that Scientology spews.
Disgruntl3dP3lican | 18 days ago
He should ask for the return of the lobotomy treatment they did on his aunt. It worked like a charm on her. She was totally healthy and functional afterward. No antidepressants anymore.
Pandemonium_Fallen | 18 days ago
Why is Worm-Brain still in a position to say or do anything?! OUT!
IrisRegenX3 | 18 days ago
I thought he said heroin was good
ScoffersGonnaScoff | 18 days ago
This man is a threat to our national security
Unfollowedusers | 18 days ago
Lol its the second great depression, this one hits twice as hard as really what future does america even have once the theives are done stripping the copper out of the white house walls
sweetica | 18 days ago
But antidepressants don't cause you to nod out and fall asleep in the middle of your life, heroin does that. Not to mention taking a pill doesn't give you an infection in your arm or HIV like taking a needle drug does. This guy is wildly moronic. If we take away meds from all the bipolar people things are going to get real weird, as if they aren't weird enough.
Snoo52682 | 18 days ago
... and this is why I asked my prescriber to double my dosage a while ago, so I could stockpile. She's a real one and did it.
No-Jacket-2927 | 18 days ago
Yeah, he can do that, then come visit me after about a week, so he can tell me how much better off I am while I literally throw him across the room. Good times!
raktlone | 18 days ago
Well Jr., what is wrong with heroin?
edwardothegreatest | 18 days ago
Watch the su1c1de rates.
IndependenceNo3945 | 19 days ago
Gross 😡too HIGH for office, this guy needs rehabilitation!
More-Dot346 | 19 days ago
As usual, with these people, he’s not totally wrong:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2045125320921694
“This article concurs with a growing number of physicians and researchers who caution against indiscriminate long-term antidepressant treatment.8–11,55 Currently, there is no reliable evidence that long-term antidepressant treatment is beneficial and there are legitimate concerns that it may be largely ineffective or even harmful in a substantial portion of users.10,11,16,55,96 It is particularly problematic that we have almost no data on antidepressants’ long-term effects on objective measures of social functioning (e.g. employment and disability rates) and patient-oriented outcomes such as quality of life. A critical reappraisal of current treatment guidelines along these lines is required. However, in keeping with the logical principle of ‘absence of evidence is not evidence of absence’ we must remain mindful that long-term antidepressant use may be useful to some patients.97 It is therefore important to conduct large real-world effectiveness trials that can adequately evaluate antidepressants’ long-term effects on depression symptoms, social functioning and quality of life. Classic long-term parallel-arm placebo-controlled trials are the preferred methodology. Discontinuation trials should be avoided unless they apply very slow and individually tailored tapers and carefully discriminate withdrawal reactions from genuine depression relapses. Finally, it would also be worthwhile to focus more generally on influences of industry-sponsorship and authors’ conflicts of interest,10,98 as these may systematically bias the literature on the risks and benefits of antidepressants.36,99–102”
dantevonlocke | 18 days ago
Doing something right for the wrong reasons is still wrong.
rockytop24 | 18 days ago
Nah, as a physician, this ain't it. Wanting to tighten prescribing guidelines and reevaluate longitudinal studies on the necessity of lifetime use for SSRIs is not the same thing as saying antidepressants are bad and most people don't need them.
RFK thinks along the lines of r/thanksimcured. "Antidepressants are poison, just eat meat and exercise shirtless in your blue jeans," would be more in line with his take. He feels the same about stimulants and other ADHD meds, literally thinks sending them to camps to "toughen them up" or "straighten them out" will "fix" them instead.
You're lending credibility to a dangerous figurehead, don't sanewash his actual beliefs just because he backpedals when testifying or could otherwise be held legally liable. Just ask the dead kids in Samoa who didn't get the MMR vaccine because of the immeasurable harm RFK has stoked with his conspiracy, antivax, antiscience bullshit.
This year alone we have roughly 500 kids just in North Carolina and more in Texas infected with measles because of this clown perpetuating the long-disproven quackery of Andrew Wakefield and his ilk. He witholds COVID vaccine data because they couldn't cherry pick bad results from the study. He badmouths vaccines only to walk it back in senate hearings to meekly mumble "well they should ask doctors not me" and "the MMR vaccine is still recommended."
It needs to be made much more clear in your statement that RFK's belief are more aligned with looksmaxing dipshits than academic journal articles of repute. They take a legitimate scientific concept like "bones remodel from chronic stressors" and "SSRI prescribing criteria may be overly broad out of an abundance of caution," and they flip it around into ignorant ideas with zero basis in reality like "smashing your face with a hammer over and over will give you a square jaw" and "the people on antidepressants don't really need them."
Absolutely nothing of value can be taken from anything this man says. People like him are dangerous because they exploit scientific skepticism and evidence-based decision making, which inherently make less absolute claims than the quacks exploiting ignorance. Confidently wrong is still wrong, but human psychology means the masses want to buy into it.
You need a big fat asterisk any time you're explaining the kernel of truth grifters like RFK extrapolate their lies from.
mirh | 18 days ago
You probably meant "as usual with these people, if you dig long enough you can backwards reason a shred of a reason". Just as with all other stupid ass conspiracists.
But for them the speck of truth was never the point? It was just whatever the handy excuse they found at the beginning of their careers to pretend to be the underdogs against "the system". Be it "we have concerns with reproducibility of studies", or the existence of a pedo-island.
But the crusade never cared about reality.
Cultural-Window-2504 | 18 days ago
Yep. It is just the latest epidemic of this industry. Playing out like that barbituate and benzo epidemics but worse. People really marketed them well this time.
Elle_se_sent_seul | 18 days ago
Ummm... yeah no thanks, my meds are actively keeping me alive. I genuinely need anti depressants because otherwise I'm freaking insane.
InvestmentLong6645 | 19 days ago
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Conscious-Coconut-16 | 18 days ago
I hear that heroine is an excellent temporary antidepressant, however, I would not recommend it.
monkee67 | 18 days ago
the most depressing news today
WesternResistance69 | 18 days ago
From experience, people who have been diagnosed with mental illness, and should be on antidepressants, will resist all efforts to stay on them …
RFK equating the two drugs together is pretty telling. He is telling me that “I should be on antidepressant’s but I’m not, and that’s ok”
My experience person, uses this quack’s rhetoric as justification to not be on them and says things like “I just need vitamins” ….. “no honey you need Zoloft right now” …
But what do I know, just an outside observer.
costafilh0 | 18 days ago
Heroin is much more effective than antidepressants, stupid.
NecrisRO | 18 days ago
I mean americans are using an insane amount compared to the rest of the world
Extra_Toppings | 18 days ago
Can you blame them?
mirh | 18 days ago
Opioids too.
senditloud | 18 days ago
I fucking hate this admin.
Gaevinn | 18 days ago
Currently attempting to come off lexapro right now and he is not wrong
ripdontcare | 18 days ago
I’ve spent a year slowly tapering off one now two anti-depressants after 30 years on them and it will take at least another year, if I want to avoid crippling anxiety attacks, sleeplessness, and chronic diarrhea. The medical profession, big pharma and psychiatrists are way behind and assume everyone can get off these drugs in weeks. Some can, but many people’s lives are ruined when they try to get off these medications too quickly. This guy has NO clue what he is talking about!
Definitelyhereforshi | 18 days ago
This is definitely going to make people more sociable and less prone to random outbursts of violence against people near them.
extrastupidone | 19 days ago
Fuckthisguy
krzynick | 18 days ago
Worst thing someone can take, smoke weed, exercise, change your diet, take up a hobby
tjean5377 | 19 days ago
Just culling the masses...it's what the billionaires want.
ron_marinara | 18 days ago
If this was truly the case, he'd be doing the opposite of this. He'd be kissing the ring of big pharma
Plastic-Caramel3714 | 19 days ago
This right here 👆. In order to preserve the earth for themselves, the billionaires are working to get us all killed.
octopusinwonderland | 19 days ago
I mean antidepressants aren’t great if you look at the research, and while they do help some people, the effect for most people is barely above the placebo. And they have awful and sometimes permanent side effects. They are definitely pushed on patients more than they should be. Not a fan of this though.
Cowboywizzard | 19 days ago
I get why people feel that way, antidepressants are not magic and side effects are real. But the “barely better than placebo” thing gets repeated without the full context. Big meta analyses actually do find a consistent benefit over placebo, especially once you get into moderate to severe depression. The Cipriani et al. 2018 Lancet review looked at hundreds of trials and found every antidepressant they studied beat placebo on average, and not just “barely.”
Side effects matter, but the idea that they are usually permanent is not what shows up in the data. Most are manageable or improve when you adjust the dose or switch meds. In practice it is not about pushing pills on everyone, it is about having another option that can make a meaningful difference for some people, especially when combined with therapy.
octopusinwonderland | 19 days ago
I see where you are coming from, but I saw that study, and we’ll have to agree to disagree on what a difference they make or how “manageable” permanent side effects are. There’s not a movement of people who identify as victims of gastroenterology, but psychiatry has that. I think that says a lot. And pharm companies absolutely make a killing on these drugs and incentive prescribing them. Again I’m not saying get rid of them, and I’m not trying to take hope away from people who do benefit, but it’s important to keep the conversation realistic to people’s lived experiences with these meds.
tvfeet | 18 days ago
You’re going to agree to disagree with the findings of a study?
krunkstoppable | 18 days ago
>I mean antidepressants aren’t great if you look at the research
What research is that?
>and while they do help some people, the effect for most people is barely above the placebo.
Seriously, where's the research that supports this assertion? Because this just sounds like your personal feelings on the matter.
Perturbator_NewModel | 19 days ago
So SSRIs don't produce "addiction" in the same sense as heroin. It's also questionable to bring up a story of a family member, because we don't know what is a "rebound" effect from stopping an antidepressant, and what is just the "untreated depression" manifesting itself.
That said, I'm taking the side of RFK Jr. here. There are particular cases of people trying to come off the SSRI (especially) Paroxetine, or the SNRI Venlafaxine, that probably are (much) worse than coming off heroin. Generally speaking, antidepressant withdrawal may be fairly mild in many cases; but there are some horror stories, and I don't believe it can all be blamed on just the "underlying depression" coming back.
There is nothing in principle "wrong" with making this kind of comparison to heroin. However, the nuance of his exact point will no doubt be lost in much of the discussion.
Direct-Fee4474 | 19 days ago
People who stop drinking have dangerous withdrawal. So we should ban alcohol? I mean, it doesn't have ANY real data backing up ANY justifiable benefit, so it's obvious that we shouldn't allow anyone to take it, regardless. In fact, if I -- someone who doesn't need supplemental insulin -- were to take a bunch of insulin, I'd probably have a bad time. We should probably ban that, too. In fact, ANYTHING that doesn't work 100% of the time, and anything with side effects of any sort shouldn't be allowed; that includes all surgeries. RFK's a moron. If you read him and think "wow, gotta hand one to him," you should reexamine your life.
Perturbator_NewModel | 18 days ago
>People who stop drinking have dangerous withdrawal. So we should ban alcohol? I mean, it doesn't have ANY real data backing up ANY justifiable benefit, so it's obvious that we shouldn't allow anyone to take it, regardless. In fact, if I -- someone who doesn't need supplemental insulin -- were to take a bunch of insulin, I'd probably have a bad time. We should probably ban that, too. In fact, ANYTHING that doesn't work 100% of the time, and anything with side effects of any sort shouldn't be allowed; that includes all surgeries. RFK's a moron. If you read him and think "wow, gotta hand one to him," you should reexamine your life
I'm pretty sure he didn't call for a ban, so you're attacking a fantasy position.
mootmutemoat | 19 days ago
Stop sane washing him. He isn't saying "particular cases" and sure, you could find a few that are worse than you average heroin withdraw. He is saying that on average ssri withdraw is worse than heroin withdraw.
He is also not saying "let's consider the research and pick an alternative" which many imagine would be an empirically established therapy or other medication. He is saying "His suggested solution is for black children to be “reparented” and work on farms."
These institutions are not proven to be sucessful, are notorious for abuse, and wow so racisist. Try to picture why his base loves him and this rhetoric.
Perturbator_NewModel | 18 days ago
>Stop sane washing him. He isn't saying "particular cases" and sure, you could find a few that are worse than you average heroin withdraw. He is saying that on average ssri withdraw is worse than heroin withdraw.
I was responding to him saying, "can be more difficult than withdrawal from heroin".
Can you point to a source where he says something like, "on average SSRI withdrawal is worse than heroin withdrawal"?
>Quitting coffee can be harder than quitting heroin for someone somewhere. It is a meaningless statement. Would you base huge changes in health care policy, and recommending the least substantiated treatments on a tiny minority of cases?
>Your rush to point out he did not explicitly say "averages" is very disingenous, because he is explicitly pushing an agenda that massively overstates the costs and ignores the costs of his transition. His behavior and refusal to acknowledge it is rare is the key. Not some semantic plausible deniability.
A small minority of cases can still be relevant to "informed consent" which is one of the things he was interested in.
mootmutemoat | 18 days ago
Quitting coffee can be harder than quitting heroin for someone somewhere. It is a meaningless statement. Would you base huge changes in health care policy, and recommending the least substantiated treatments on a tiny minority of cases?
Your rush to point out he did not explicitly say "averages" is very disingenous, because he is explicitly pushing an agenda that massively overstates the costs and ignores the costs of his transition. His behavior and refusal to acknowledge it is rare is the key. Not some semantic plausible deniability.
Perturbator_NewModel | 18 days ago
So you have been caught putting words in his mouth, and then accuse me of dishonesty for questioning this! That's quite some projection!
Floatzel404 | 18 days ago
Lmfao I don't want to hear shit about "nuance of his exact point" when you just said coming off antidepressants is "much worse" than heroin and the fact that you don't understand the nuance of why it's bad to associate life saving mental health medication with a street drug that kills millions and users labeled "junkies"
Perturbator_NewModel | 18 days ago
I said that RFK Jr is correct that the withdrawal can be worse. If people just correctly understood the point then there wouldn't be a problem
Cultural-Window-2504 | 18 days ago
A more apt comparison would be that they are like time release mdma. Even the harms are pretty much identical. One increases levels of some things over time and one increases the effect of most of the same things. The effect is similar though.
Mor_Padraig | 19 days ago
I seriously thought this guy would go the other way, and have a shot at normalizing all the crap he's on.
mirh | 18 days ago
But then it would mean releasing hundreds thousands black people currently behind bars for smoking a joint. Won't somebody think to private prisons?
Cultural-Window-2504 | 19 days ago
I hate to have anything in common with this moron but this is one thing that does need to be looked into. He obviously has no real knowledge on the topic though.
No-Drag-6378 | 18 days ago
Absolutely! Especially about long-term effects. Not to say anything should be banned outright, but more honesty about their mechnism, safety, efficacy.
This_Loss_1922 | 18 days ago
Based, Americans should feel the pain of what they have done with absolutely no medication to ease it
AccountNumeroThree | 18 days ago
What about those of us who didn't vote for the toilet-licking clown show?
Extra_Toppings | 18 days ago
You should be unhappy with both shitty option Full Flavor and shitty option Lite.
This_Loss_1922 | 18 days ago
Same logic that makes americans fuck with venezuelans, cubans, and Iranians, if you suffer enough you will eventually do something to take back your country
If you just have every american on medication and opioids that wont happen