Ah yes, the timeless American tradition: taking genuine economic anxiety, channeling it into culture war anger, and handed the bill to a bunch of billionaires' PACs and grifter influencers. We went from the Tea Party selling gold coins on infomercials to manosphere podcasters selling brain pills and crypto. Truly an inspiring evolution of conservative 'grassroots' activism.
I'm shocked! Why would self-interested unscrupulous people do such a thing!? It's not like they've been... oh wait, they have been influencing, manipulating and even astroturfing things for years and years? /s
This is the problem with billionaires, and the boundaries and limits the Supreme Court has relaxed or outright eliminate since Citizens United and before. Add to that the shadowy world of influencer compensation without disclosure which is pervasive in the industry.
I don't know why everyone is downvoting this remark (aside maybe from the example of r economics, which hasnt impressed me all that much); the reactions I've read in the threads below seemed to be falling into facile moralizing.
Meathead machismo is undergoing a cultural renaissance. Appeals to the male youth vote dominated the Trump campaign in 2024, and misogynistic rhetoric and political extremism are now normalized thanks to the popularization of the “manosphere”—usually conceived as an organic right-wing rebellion driving the culture wars. However, young men are also feeling lonelier than ever, and increasingly drawn into risky crypto schemes and online gambling.
Rather than an organic movement, a new study suggests, the digital ecosystem producing red-pilled men is a pyramid scheme. In ‘The Grift Economy: How Young Men Are Being Sold Fake Belonging and Fake Wealth Online,’ a 153-page report, researchers from the digital safety organization Reset Tech and the nonprofit Equimundo write: “‘Masculinity’ has become a commercial category that is constructed, curated, and financially incentivized online.”
Profiting off some of the whiniest and gullible men I've ever seen in my life is probably real easy. If it's online it's probably fake boys, and that goes for the ladies as well, be careful as the internet is a wild wild west grift, full of psyops and grifters waiting to trick you.
I feel bad for them. Like at least when the beauty industry was trying to destroy women's self esteem so we'd buy stuff, it was mostly men behind the scenes and women fought back in a pretty united way. This is men feeding on other men and it's much harder to know who to trust.
And it is important to remember that they also start on kids, just like with cosmetics. They target boys like any other predator through video games and adjacent media.
I think misogynistic and sexualized media is one of the primary ways the manosphere has recruited so many men and boys. Videogames are part of this, especially if you think about GamerGate and Steve Bannon's influence in all this manosphere crap. That's why the chuds are always screeching about not being able to masturbate to women in games alongside the general REEEE-ing about some "crisis of masculinity." It all ties in.
multiple YouTube personalities (mostly watched by boys and young men) started their entire careers off of GamerGate crap; Asmongold jumped from WoW farming to 'variety streaming' off of the grievances GamerGate pulled out of the nether
Got to get them juiced up to prepare for war, and those testosterone injections now funded by the pentagon. I haven’t seen a war propaganda drumroll this sustained since the late 80s.
Anyone with even a bit of analytical skills can see what's going on, but I guess such skills are in short supply, as evidenced by the prevalence of the manosphere industry.
Is it any different then anything else with the same type of audience? It's a proven business model, time tested for decades. It's just a different franchise....
As an American that's lived abroad the last 2 years, I'm baffled by how gullible Americans are. Stupid, uneducated, willfully ignorant, sure, but my god we're so gullible about stuff like this. It's embarrassing.
We have allowed monopolistic corporate algorithms a stranglehold on all entertainment and we reap the result. It is much easier to capture attention by taking advantage of our worst impulses than our better natures. It’s pure information pollution at this point. It’s bigger than just some rubes.
This came up in a discussion on one of the women's subs. The interesting thing is that the outcome of these guys is that they are basically rendering their followers unfuckable. Like woman are literally choosing to be celibate rather than having to deal with these fuckwits.
The only good news is that the chances of them passing on their DNA is low.
This is why men are throwing around the word "misandry" more.
Apparently, women having high standards is evil abusive man-hatred, and we deserve to die alone with cats for wanting better.
All the ways the Manosphere teaches men to be coercive and abusive to get sex is fine, according to these men. But women deciding they dont want that are just bad women.
I'm so glad Women are rejecting this on a large scale, and I hope it continues.
The thing that is so hard for these kinds of men to understand is that a lot of women see nothing wrong with living alone with a cat.
I feel like these kinds of men aren’t looking for companionship. They’ve lost control of their lives in one way or another and are looking for people to blame. The internet narrative is telling them who to blame and they are following like lemmings.
This is also great for right wing movements because it prevents that part of the demographic from asking real questions about wealth gaps, real structural inequality, the need for universal healthcare, and other important policy issues. Is it any wonder that the GOP is pressing hard on control over women’s bodies rather than addressing issues about the expense of having children?
Yup. Those same men complaining about misandry also get upset when women talk about misogyny.
They see woman as a class-- inferior to them-- but see men as individuals.
Even though the system is set up to create a separate class for women, addressing it is sexist somehow.
When Misandry is usually called in response to a woman saying "I dont want to continually be mistreated on the basis of my sex", that means its just another strategy to deflect to keep us from being able to name the problem, and address solutions.
It is way better to be single than to deal with the emotional warfare the Manosphere markets as dating strategies.
They tell us we arent allowed to ask for better, and then get mad when we decide "Okay, then I am not playing anymore".
Ive seen it for over ten years, and at some point, you get tired of prioritizing the emotions of people who get their joy from upsetting others.
The more men get upset with me saying it, the more I want to say it.
I am not a misandrist, but if misandry protects me from being abused, then I will accept the label.
> The thing that is so hard for these kinds of men to understand is that a lot of women see nothing wrong with living alone with a cat.
>
> I feel like these kinds of men aren’t looking for companionship. They’ve lost control of their lives in one way or another and are looking for people to blame. The internet narrative is telling them who to blame and they are following like lemmings.
I think your first para is correct: women, on average, seem less dependent on romantic partnership for social and emotional well-being than men. I think one reason is because women tend to have wider social networks: men put all their eggs in one basket, as it were.
But you're not following through with your own logic in your second para. It really is primarily about loneliness, not control of their own lives. They really are miserable because nobody loves them.
I have to assume you're a woman, because if you were a man you'd probably feel that a lot more viscerally? It's hard to walk in someone else's shoes.
(I say primarily because I'm certain there's a lot of other shit in there too - status and sex and everything else in Maslow's pyramid).
It's not even that we "deserve to die alone". It's that the preference of some women to be alone rather than with a partner they feel is less than ideal is perceived as selfishly depriving men/society of something they are owed (which is why you also see so much overlap between the manosphere/alt-right types who want to dismantle the structures that allow women to exist independent of a relationship, which is to say, education, anti-discrimination labor laws, and birth control).
If I meet a partner who fits within the life Ive built, or who wants to build a life thats just as fulfilling elsewhere, then I am open to that.
But potential partners are competing with my love of myself and my community.
The men who get angry about it and tell me that I am going to die alone surrounded by cats are just upset that somebody isnt putting up with the bullshit. Its a cope.
They need women to think that its morally wrong to want a happy peaceful life over emotional roller coasters.
Well said. I was like this in my 20's, blaming women for being "undateable"
Surprise surprise, when I started to attend a 12 step program called adult children of alcoholics and started to deal with my childhood trauma, I found a woman who would sleep with me.
If you have further stories about this camp, I would love to hear it. Genuinely. I am interested in understanding how men get pulled into this and what can be done to pull them out.
Search for "pathways to manhood" in Australia. That should tell you more about the camps than I could
I never got pulled into it because this was 40 years ago. But basically it is simple. I was unhappy. I had two choices. Blame myself and, since I had no idea how to change myself, that wasn't an option, or blame women for not wanting to be with me.
I chose the later because it took the weight off me.
The term misandry is thrown around more because it seems a lot more women now are comfortable making extreme generalisations as an expression of hatred for men. The femosphere is as real as the manosphere, and it predictably has had some of its opinions leak into mainstream social media, just like the manosphere.
He means that some TikToks of women saying they hate men is somehow equivalent to a bunch of extremely popular podcasters advocating for women to not be able to vote
The Are We Dating the Same Guy groups, with hundreds of thousands of followers in every major city, would be one example. Ostensibly about women's safety, they are in practice places where women can anonymously dox their dates and spread whatever lies they choose.
Much of IG and TT openly embraces and openly promotes hating all men.
Rather than tucked away in some dark corner of the internet, like the manosphere, the "femosphere" equivalent is right out in the open.
And it's having measurable effects on young women, who now have demonstrably more sexist opinions of their male peers than vice versa. Your temptation to blame this on "Well, their male peers suck" is further proof.
Where is the systemic repression and dehumanization of men in our society? And who promotes and amplifies that way of thinking because they benefit from it?
I have not said they are equivalent. Could you show me where I did say misogyny and misandry were the same?
One of the biggest issue facing young women and men is their inability to critically think. It allows people to manipulate them and harmess pre-existing cognitive bias against certain groups, whether it be immigrants, women or indeed men.
Now since you'll handwave away any and all men's issues with the conversation-ending and supremely reductionist, wrong and unhelpful "Who caused those issues?" I do not expect you to read or reply to anything you might see there. But you asked, so there it is.
Thanks! You are correct- I WILL ask what systems caused those issues, and suspect that, no matter what, you'll continue to not blame it on the people who've been in charge for lifetimes.
The wealthy? Yes, that's who I blame, as I should.
But way down here at the lowest rungs of society where both you and I reside, I also blame you. Not for causing these issues. Neither of us have that power.
I blame you for not taking serious issues seriously, and derailing serious conversations with the same misguided blame game.
If Misandry was used in response to actual hatred, I might agree with this take.
But mostly, its thrown around when Women try to talk about their experiences as a class, or when Women talk about how they arent willing to settle for the normalized abuse you see in heterosexual relationships.
Men will say you are a misandrist at the same time as they speak in degrading ways about you and other women.
I would be more apt to care about the accusation if every conversation discussing Women's issues wasnt reframed to make it palatable for people who dont want to listen anyway.
I am sorry but misandry is misandry. We dont qualify incel comments by saying well it is ok, because it is coming perhaps from a bad experience with women as a class.
Misandry is basically called in response to any acknowledgement of Men as a class at this point.
I didnt create the sexual hierarchy. But, Im not going to ignore the consequences of it just because it makes some Men, who are often perpetuating Misogyny with the same breath they call out Misandry, uncomfortable.
Stop with the mental gymnastics around what is defined clearly as hate speech. We can acknowledge it has very few downstream real life consequences but that doesn't mean
It doesn't exist as true hate speech
it is harmless
You & I may be able to contextualise statements like all men are trash rapists or the world would be a better place without men or equivalent, but a young 14 year old boy browsing Tiktok wont. They leave posts thinking either they are shamefully responsible for something they do not understand and / or that women hate them. What they do with those conclusions is left to parenting and online influencers.
Go on to any non gendered sub and see for yourself. Look ar the downvotes one guy replying to me got, quite rightly too. Yes, misogyny is routinely challenged online, and not only that, women ask us as men ro challenge it. Look at the focus that has been put on the manosphere from artilcles like this to Louis Therouxs documentary to BBC dramas like Adolescencs to even being a core story on soaps as it is currently on Eastenderd. Slets stop talking about counterweights.
There isn't a multibillion-dollar grievance industry steering women towards populism and cults of personality, is my point, nor do I think women can stop it.
It's both though. I do think that the flames of gender war are being flamed everywhere for nefarious reasons and many women are falling into it and being straight up hateful towards men, but there are a lot of dudes who call literally everything misandry constantly even if it makes no sense whatsoever
Yeah there's some ultimate irony that in the pursuit of "peak masculinity/manliness," they are so utterly far away from either. To worry about your masculinity is to be insecure about yourself, which is neither masculine or manly.
>The only good news is that the chances of them passing on their DNA is low.
The bad news is there's a new sucker born every minute.
And the "unfuckable" are that much easier to manipulate into anger as well. Like, to the point that result could be viewed as intentional. It leaves them with nowhere to turn but a cult-like group that will reinforce their grievances.
You're not too far off. He was known to post on 4chan. 4chan is what Steve Bannon tapped into in the early days, using grievance as engagement bait. Fast forward a few years, Trump is elected and Joe Rogan takes off by amplifying messages they'd test ran on 4chan. Flash forward another few years and Rogan gets Trump elected.
Picture a toilet where the drain pipe leads back to the toilet bowl.
All movements become an industry. We have an industry to take care of the homeless where the CEOs earn millions and live in Hawaii, an industry of gender equality, of taking care of minorities, of people for trans, of people against trans, pro and against abortion, anything you can think of will be weaponized and commodified and shittified.
This can be said of any influencer online , it is hardly a revolutionary notion. Everyone has advice to sell from Tiktok feminists to manosphere types. You are always only a click away from a product.
Bingo. But males (especially white ones) are the favorite whipping boys of leftists, just as non-white (male) immigrants are the favorite whipping boys of the far-right.
It’s really funny seeing an aggrieved male in the comments peddling the same manosphere martyr nonsense that the article just said was disingenuous grifting meant to take your money.
I'm not aggrieved at all. I am just pointing out how people of different political affiliations choose their grievences, or perceived grievances, to make make $$$$ online. Ideas are products now.
I agree. Both sides are behaving similarly just manifesting in different ways. A liberal with trump derangement syndrome is just as bad as crazy trump supporters with their stores and crazy shit. It's turning politics into a substitute for meaning and frankly religion.
I'm sorry but you again assuming my political leaning kinda plays into it. I'm not saying it's a real mental illness but I know people personally who definitely act crazy whenever Trump is brought up. And I'm sorry but there's a correlation between mental illness and disorder like depression, anxiety, bipolar, and the like and far leftist politics. Just like I would say far right politics has a correlation with narcissism.
I honestly think the "correlation" isn't a difference in rates, but because the right wing pushes a machismo approach to mental health and doesn't get treated. Psychology is fake medicine, no real man sees a therapist, you're not depressed you're just lazy.
So the left gets associated with mental illness (because to the MAGAs moderately progressive views are "far left extremism") because they're all for getting treated and being open about it instead of pretending everything is fine and blaming the person whose brain isn't working right for not praying hard enough.
We live in the best time to live in all of human history. The common mental illnesses that people have nowadays are basically the result of having nothing worse to think about. I struggle with existential "depression" where I think way too hard about the crazy idea that something came from nothing which lead me and my subjective experience and it makes me depressed and not give a fuck. My point being that being healthy, active, and busy within a community of people will do more for most people's mental health than any drugs or therapy. Now to be clear, mental illnesses are real, but the majority of the population does not have one.
>My point being that being healthy, active, and busy within a community
of people will do more for most people's mental health than any drugs or
therapy.
Yet conservatives screech and cry at the very concept of a walkable community with stores and homes in close enough proximity that you can walk anywhere you need to go in 15 minutes, because a "fifteen minute city" means radical liberals want to ban cars and forbid travel.
We can't have free public places to exist like libraries and community centers and national parks because that's socialism.
Yet it's the liberals who are responsible for mental illness due to not being content with living in a neighborhood where you have to get in a car to go anywhere and the neighbors will call the cops if they see your kids playing outside?
I've never met a conservative that's against parks and libraries. And I live in a very conservative rural area.
You don't need walkable neighborhoods to be healthy and active. That's a false dichotomy.
You are talking about liberal suburban and urban areas which preach safety above all else. It's not conservative call the cops when there's kids outside. The conservatives are the ones letting their kids ride dirt bikes, hunt and other dangerous activities that build character. The conservatives around me have communities in their churches, sports leagues and other avenues. The loneliness epidemic is mostly urban and suburban.
>I've never met a conservative that's against parks and libraries.
Then why do conservatives keep voting in politicians who want to defund our libraries and sell our parks to private equity?
Why are conservatives against walkable communities existing? They don't have to live there, but they hate that other people want to choose a different lifestyle than neighborhoods you have to cross a five lane highway to leave.
80% of Americans live in a city or suburb. A lot of conservatives live in cities. My friend's kid has had the cops called because she and her neighbors were playing in the front yard with an adult supervising from the far side of a window.
And the other type of moron shows up: the enlightened centrist who is just so far above these people who care about things. Please share more wisdom with the class, Buddha.
I'm really not a centrist. I just think modern political movements have turned into essentially religions for both sides. Both sides don't actually interact with the other side in daily life. They live in media echo chambers leading to further political polarization. I'm pro life, pro universal healthcare, pro welfare, anti war and empire. I'm really a communitarian if anything.
Caring about something that materially impacts your life is not “polarization”. There is one party that is directly against every one of your alleged ideals.
I have literally zero empathy for any losers involved with “the manosphere”. If you honestly think the best solution to not being able to peacefully coexist with women is to cut them off completely, you’re just plain stupid. That’s all there is to it. Grow up.
This all true, but it doesn't matter when the only counter narrative is telling the men that into this that you are a piece of shit and all the problem you have are your own fault. It's why Scott Galloway has been trying to setup alternatives. You've got people acting like a boy growing up in a divorced home to parent without college degrees in a broken down rust belt town with no jobs is more privileged than a girl growing up in an intact family with college graduating parents in a nice suburb. There's zero interest helping that boy succeed.
While I do agree we need a better counter narrative, I really can't see what kind of counter narrative WOULD be effective against this. The 'manosphere' was built off of reasonable grievances held by men that became more extreme because those grievances were only expressed in an echo chamber. To create a counter narrative that is effective against the 'manosphere' you need to have another answer to those grievances, and thats not easy.
It’s made up of both. Nice Guys who grew up dependent on mom/women that learned to be afraid of disappointing women and were never taught to develop healthy boundaries. They hit the manosphere with years of pent up frustration,
sometimes heartbreak, from always being expected to sacrifice their self-interest if a
woman wants something, and find the first place to actually affirm their experiences.
Then there’s the daddy issues guys who exist in a constant state of insecurity and uncertainty over whether or not they’ll ever be accepted or respected “as a man.” They’re searching for an older man to affirm them and reassure them that they are own the right path. Someone to tell them that it’s possible to eventually escape the hell they feel like they live in.
You could say the Nice Guys have a daddy issues problem, but it’s not the same. They tend to have a very strong image of what kind of man to not be and are taught to strive to be the good little boy that mommy approves of. They “know” what kind of man they want to be, but are faced with a world that doesn’t really reward good behavior as much as it rewards effective behavior.
I'm just glad that there's no huge cultural push to magnify all the faults of men. Imagine if women were being told to hate men everywhere they went too
Unfortunately, many people translate experience with a few individuals to apply to all people they consider part of that same group. It’s both a societal failing and a human failing.
They've got nothing on the grievance industry enshrined in higher ed. Grievance studies have pulled in billions in grant money. Combine that with all the profits from public speaking and publishing, not to mention six digit salaries and facilities and infrastructure to support them. All propped up by media and government regulation. Plus they can legitimize their activism by calling it "scholarly" activity, and people who rightly oppose it (like one should oppose the manosphere) get dehumanized as a nazi/fascist/bigot. The manosphere is a pale imitation of Academic Grievance, lacking the veil of legitimacy or protection from attack.
Dude, Instagram alone makes more than a billion from putting ads on manosphere videos. Why the fuck do you think 'the industry' are a handful of influencers? w00t
Is Zuckerberg part of the manosphere now? No, he isn't. That's the platform making the money, not the top streamers. I'm pretty sure Michael Sartain debunked the same claim made by Mark Manson
Lmao your comment got deleted. Try not to be so emotional and argue back with facts, logic, and reason. Anyways, if you have documented reciepts of the billions in the manosphere then share it. You could expose Tate, Sneako etc and be a hero
Tate admitted he was funded by Russian billionaires Viktor Vekselberg and Petr Aven but stopped accepting money from them once the EU sanctioned them. The Clavicular guy says he's in frequent contact with Thiel, gets invited to his orgy parties.
While I do think this is true in some ways, one thing it gets wrong is where this came from.
These grievances weren't manufactured, they are the result of young men feeling like they have no place in society. Men have always been the primary moneymakers in relationships, and despite the movements to get women in the workforce that standard still remains. Our culture still expects men to bring money to the relationship, which is becoming increasingly difficult in an economy where a family living on a single person's paycheck is becoming increasingly impossible. On the other hand, our culture has begun to expect women to bring less to the relationship, which has created a huge divide between what men had in the past and what they have now.
These grievances weren't manufactured, they were taken advantage of. The sentiment of "men have to work harder to fill their role in a relationship while women are held to a lower standard" was silenced, only to be spoken aloud around other men, and turned into the sentiment "women can't be trusted with rights" that is being increasingly common nowadays. The same happened with many other sentiments commonly held among not just those who consider themselves to be part of the 'manosphere' but young men in general. Young men didn't start out as extremists, they were forced to keep their opinions to small echo chambers, and that created the extremism. People like Andrew Tate are just profiting off of it, because its easier to profit off of existing grievances than it is to create new ones.
The transition to neofeudalism and surveillance capitalism is by intention abusive, predatory, demoralizing, basically men don’t like being slaves. Women want men who can provide and take care of them like non-slaves.
Abuse is intentional. Demoralization is intentional. Its a one sided war where the endgame is you have nothing and parasites have everything.
Neither men nor women want to address the real issue, because publicly addressing the real issue gets you punished by master. by the system. However redirecting their anger anywhere else but where it belongs is rewarded as it avoids those creating the problems having to stop abusing and stealing.
Eventually this leads to total system collapse and warlordism not neofeudalism.
The point is that there is no class better protected in human civilization than men. They possess all the built-in advantages yet moan and groan to each other on the interwebs like total man dorks. What a bunch of whiny b1tches!
*to be clear, the subject of the OP is the man-o-sphere, so keep responses limited to that dominant in-group of whiny leetches.
The people they are appealing to are typically poor losers who have no power to exercise over anyone. They hear “but you’re a man you have nothing to complain about you can do whatever you want” and then they do creepy shit to justify that story and that’s why this sort of thing thrives. A 24 year old kid with nothing going for him doesn’t care about the advantages of rich white men throughout history when they are broke and stressed and not good at relationships
Would you say the same about gay man in Sudan,
or transman in Saudi Arabia ? Are they just a bunch of whiny bitches ?
Maybe being a man doesn't automatically protect you
*Silly goose doesn’t understand that being a man does not automatically make you protected.
"The point is that there is no class better protected in human civilization than men"
This is literally what you said. I am just easily pointing out the logical gaps when you are talking about this topic. We both agree that gay men in Sudan are men; they are not protected. Maybe just stop talking bullshit about stuff you don't know anything about?
Don't tell man how protected they are when they are clearly not.
"The point is that there is no class better protected in human civilization than men" I just demonstrated on a few very simple example why it's bullshit.
I don't understand how you can easily dismiss serious struggles man face daily and be surprised when they find places that are more (atleast pretend to be) more empathetic with the struggles.
So why did you bring up those groups? And western women like the ones in the US who don’t have federally mandated maternity leave? Who are facing abortion bans that risk their health and lives? Be specific.
What exactly are you confused about?
“The point is that there is no class better protected in human civilization than men.”
It’s easy to point out the logical fallacy in this statement, which I did. Men are NOT the best-protected class in human civilization - only SOME men are. I have no doubt that any gay man in Sudan would love to exchange his life for that of a western woman.Yes even with abortion ban.
By the way, there are enough women who voted Republican (around 40%), are extremely rich, or were the ones who suggested the policy you are talking about. Stop telling man how protected you are while enjoying the perks of the colonization.
You have to be purposefully being this dense. Men are protected on the basis of sex. You brought up gay and trans men specifically because they are oppressed on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.
A gay man in Sudan would also love to be a western man, probably more. Because the privileged aspect is being western.
And I assume you mean 40% of white women voted Republican. That doesn’t mean 40% of all American women. Which also isn’t 40% of all women.
“The point is that there is no class better protected in human civilization than men.”
Could you point out to me exactly where she wrote “cis man”?
Could you point out to me where she wrote “western man”?
By the way, what about men who are physically or mentally impaired, men who are born into a persecuted minority (forced sterilisation in China), or men who were abandoned as children (example India) ?
I am not dense; I am engaging with what was said.
Being a man doesn't automatically make you protected, being a woman doesn't automatically make you a victim.
All ideas are industries in the way this article uses that word, and popular ideas are multi billion dollar industries.
The frustration a lot of people have with this isn’t that it’s industry but that it’s a monopoly - a relatively small group of people with a relatively narrow set of solutions dominate this conversation because they are the only viable products for most customers. Progressive spaces only recently began even allowing selling this product at all, but it’s far from being competitive. It currently requires that any men’s rights discussion be first and foremost centered around women and their wellbeing. This is not a viable product
SuperBry | 16 hours ago
Ah yes, the timeless American tradition: taking genuine economic anxiety, channeling it into culture war anger, and handed the bill to a bunch of billionaires' PACs and grifter influencers. We went from the Tea Party selling gold coins on infomercials to manosphere podcasters selling brain pills and crypto. Truly an inspiring evolution of conservative 'grassroots' activism.
Ezekeal | 5 hours ago
I think it was a German tradition as well.
horseradishstalker | 4 hours ago
Maybe more a traditional strategy of authoritarianism regardless of country.
daveinsf | an hour ago
I'm shocked! Why would self-interested unscrupulous people do such a thing!? It's not like they've been... oh wait, they have been influencing, manipulating and even astroturfing things for years and years? /s
This is the problem with billionaires, and the boundaries and limits the Supreme Court has relaxed or outright eliminate since Citizens United and before. Add to that the shadowy world of influencer compensation without disclosure which is pervasive in the industry.
JC_Hysteria | 10 hours ago
Read the counter-argument comments and tell me if they don’t play directly into the same game…”it’s not us, it’s them-obviously!”
As you said- “channeling it into culture war anger”.
r/economics is literally the only community I’ve seen that regularly argues a point and its counter point.
enverx | 6 hours ago
I don't know why everyone is downvoting this remark (aside maybe from the example of r economics, which hasnt impressed me all that much); the reactions I've read in the threads below seemed to be falling into facile moralizing.
[OP] wiredmagazine | 17 hours ago
Meathead machismo is undergoing a cultural renaissance. Appeals to the male youth vote dominated the Trump campaign in 2024, and misogynistic rhetoric and political extremism are now normalized thanks to the popularization of the “manosphere”—usually conceived as an organic right-wing rebellion driving the culture wars. However, young men are also feeling lonelier than ever, and increasingly drawn into risky crypto schemes and online gambling.
Rather than an organic movement, a new study suggests, the digital ecosystem producing red-pilled men is a pyramid scheme. In ‘The Grift Economy: How Young Men Are Being Sold Fake Belonging and Fake Wealth Online,’ a 153-page report, researchers from the digital safety organization Reset Tech and the nonprofit Equimundo write: “‘Masculinity’ has become a commercial category that is constructed, curated, and financially incentivized online.”
Read the full story at the link above.
sweetica | 15 hours ago
Profiting off some of the whiniest and gullible men I've ever seen in my life is probably real easy. If it's online it's probably fake boys, and that goes for the ladies as well, be careful as the internet is a wild wild west grift, full of psyops and grifters waiting to trick you.
DangerousTurmeric | 15 hours ago
I feel bad for them. Like at least when the beauty industry was trying to destroy women's self esteem so we'd buy stuff, it was mostly men behind the scenes and women fought back in a pretty united way. This is men feeding on other men and it's much harder to know who to trust.
wellgu | 14 hours ago
And it is important to remember that they also start on kids, just like with cosmetics. They target boys like any other predator through video games and adjacent media.
bunnypaste | 14 hours ago
I think misogynistic and sexualized media is one of the primary ways the manosphere has recruited so many men and boys. Videogames are part of this, especially if you think about GamerGate and Steve Bannon's influence in all this manosphere crap. That's why the chuds are always screeching about not being able to masturbate to women in games alongside the general REEEE-ing about some "crisis of masculinity." It all ties in.
FullConfection3260 | 7 hours ago
Boys never cared about “GamerGate”, only terminally online men did. Because you gotta create a ruckus out of nothing.
TequilaBard | 3 hours ago
multiple YouTube personalities (mostly watched by boys and young men) started their entire careers off of GamerGate crap; Asmongold jumped from WoW farming to 'variety streaming' off of the grievances GamerGate pulled out of the nether
Racamonkey_II | 6 hours ago
Unlike women, who you can automatically trust, right? And the women that were behind the beauty industry, they aren’t to blame, just the men?
JC_Hysteria | 10 hours ago
Do you have the same critique for an article like this one, which is profiting off the publishing of popular countercultural talking points?
Do we need outlets like these telling people how to feel one way or another on a given topic?
fractalfay | 8 hours ago
Got to get them juiced up to prepare for war, and those testosterone injections now funded by the pentagon. I haven’t seen a war propaganda drumroll this sustained since the late 80s.
InVultusSolis | 8 hours ago
Anyone with even a bit of analytical skills can see what's going on, but I guess such skills are in short supply, as evidenced by the prevalence of the manosphere industry.
wehrmann_tx | 17 hours ago
Orchestrated for over almost two decades by Bannon.
Ivort-DC | 13 hours ago
Is it any different then anything else with the same type of audience? It's a proven business model, time tested for decades. It's just a different franchise....
JC_Hysteria | 10 hours ago
So, what exactly would this article be considered in the context of what it’s attempting to critique?
If “reporting” on cultural trends with opinion/puff pieces isn’t the flame itself, it’s surely a massive fan.
stanislov128 | 12 hours ago
As an American that's lived abroad the last 2 years, I'm baffled by how gullible Americans are. Stupid, uneducated, willfully ignorant, sure, but my god we're so gullible about stuff like this. It's embarrassing.
SteveJEO | 7 hours ago
People aren't taught by experience any more. They're taught by demographically targeted advertisement.
Diligent-Map1402 | 8 hours ago
We have allowed monopolistic corporate algorithms a stranglehold on all entertainment and we reap the result. It is much easier to capture attention by taking advantage of our worst impulses than our better natures. It’s pure information pollution at this point. It’s bigger than just some rubes.
ghanima | 4 hours ago
I'm Canadian. It's been WILD to see how much our two nations have diverged in my lifetime.
arkofjoy | 15 hours ago
This came up in a discussion on one of the women's subs. The interesting thing is that the outcome of these guys is that they are basically rendering their followers unfuckable. Like woman are literally choosing to be celibate rather than having to deal with these fuckwits.
The only good news is that the chances of them passing on their DNA is low.
weirdoldhobo1978 | 12 hours ago
That's intentional. It's designed to keep men lonely, angry and easily manipulated.
arkofjoy | 12 hours ago
So very true. Useless as partners, but perfect for cannon fodder
treesarealive777 | 15 hours ago
This is why men are throwing around the word "misandry" more.
Apparently, women having high standards is evil abusive man-hatred, and we deserve to die alone with cats for wanting better.
All the ways the Manosphere teaches men to be coercive and abusive to get sex is fine, according to these men. But women deciding they dont want that are just bad women.
I'm so glad Women are rejecting this on a large scale, and I hope it continues.
Easy-Concentrate2636 | 14 hours ago
The thing that is so hard for these kinds of men to understand is that a lot of women see nothing wrong with living alone with a cat.
I feel like these kinds of men aren’t looking for companionship. They’ve lost control of their lives in one way or another and are looking for people to blame. The internet narrative is telling them who to blame and they are following like lemmings.
This is also great for right wing movements because it prevents that part of the demographic from asking real questions about wealth gaps, real structural inequality, the need for universal healthcare, and other important policy issues. Is it any wonder that the GOP is pressing hard on control over women’s bodies rather than addressing issues about the expense of having children?
treesarealive777 | 14 hours ago
Yup. Those same men complaining about misandry also get upset when women talk about misogyny.
They see woman as a class-- inferior to them-- but see men as individuals.
Even though the system is set up to create a separate class for women, addressing it is sexist somehow.
When Misandry is usually called in response to a woman saying "I dont want to continually be mistreated on the basis of my sex", that means its just another strategy to deflect to keep us from being able to name the problem, and address solutions.
It is way better to be single than to deal with the emotional warfare the Manosphere markets as dating strategies.
They tell us we arent allowed to ask for better, and then get mad when we decide "Okay, then I am not playing anymore".
Ive seen it for over ten years, and at some point, you get tired of prioritizing the emotions of people who get their joy from upsetting others.
The more men get upset with me saying it, the more I want to say it.
I am not a misandrist, but if misandry protects me from being abused, then I will accept the label.
PersistentBadger | 4 hours ago
> The thing that is so hard for these kinds of men to understand is that a lot of women see nothing wrong with living alone with a cat. > > I feel like these kinds of men aren’t looking for companionship. They’ve lost control of their lives in one way or another and are looking for people to blame. The internet narrative is telling them who to blame and they are following like lemmings.
I think your first para is correct: women, on average, seem less dependent on romantic partnership for social and emotional well-being than men. I think one reason is because women tend to have wider social networks: men put all their eggs in one basket, as it were.
But you're not following through with your own logic in your second para. It really is primarily about loneliness, not control of their own lives. They really are miserable because nobody loves them.
I have to assume you're a woman, because if you were a man you'd probably feel that a lot more viscerally? It's hard to walk in someone else's shoes.
(I say primarily because I'm certain there's a lot of other shit in there too - status and sex and everything else in Maslow's pyramid).
notnatasharostova | 14 hours ago
It's not even that we "deserve to die alone". It's that the preference of some women to be alone rather than with a partner they feel is less than ideal is perceived as selfishly depriving men/society of something they are owed (which is why you also see so much overlap between the manosphere/alt-right types who want to dismantle the structures that allow women to exist independent of a relationship, which is to say, education, anti-discrimination labor laws, and birth control).
treesarealive777 | 14 hours ago
Yeah, definitely. I am choosing to be single.
If I meet a partner who fits within the life Ive built, or who wants to build a life thats just as fulfilling elsewhere, then I am open to that.
But potential partners are competing with my love of myself and my community.
The men who get angry about it and tell me that I am going to die alone surrounded by cats are just upset that somebody isnt putting up with the bullshit. Its a cope.
They need women to think that its morally wrong to want a happy peaceful life over emotional roller coasters.
arkofjoy | 15 hours ago
Well said. I was like this in my 20's, blaming women for being "undateable"
Surprise surprise, when I started to attend a 12 step program called adult children of alcoholics and started to deal with my childhood trauma, I found a woman who would sleep with me.
Crazy.
treesarealive777 | 15 hours ago
Thats an awesome story and I hope you share it more!
All the single women I know want emotionally intelligent men, so any man who does the work is going to have a lot of options.
arkofjoy | 15 hours ago
Yup. I used to be involved with a group of people who ran rights of passage camps. I would tell the boys "it will get you laid"
Easy-Concentrate2636 | 14 hours ago
If you have further stories about this camp, I would love to hear it. Genuinely. I am interested in understanding how men get pulled into this and what can be done to pull them out.
arkofjoy | 14 hours ago
Search for "pathways to manhood" in Australia. That should tell you more about the camps than I could
I never got pulled into it because this was 40 years ago. But basically it is simple. I was unhappy. I had two choices. Blame myself and, since I had no idea how to change myself, that wasn't an option, or blame women for not wanting to be with me.
I chose the later because it took the weight off me.
Easy-Concentrate2636 | 14 hours ago
Thank you, I will look that up. And thank you for your honesty.
I am glad you were able to take steps to deal with your childhood and your loneliness. I hope life is more fulfilling and happier now.
arkofjoy | 13 hours ago
Forty years of men's groups, 12 step programs, counselling, rites of passage hypnotherapy.
Yes. Much happier now.
Few-Coat1297 | 15 hours ago
The term misandry is thrown around more because it seems a lot more women now are comfortable making extreme generalisations as an expression of hatred for men. The femosphere is as real as the manosphere, and it predictably has had some of its opinions leak into mainstream social media, just like the manosphere.
arrec | 14 hours ago
What do you mean by the femosphere is as real as the manosphere? What are the equivalents of the elements discussed in the Wiired article?
slainascully | 13 hours ago
He means that some TikToks of women saying they hate men is somehow equivalent to a bunch of extremely popular podcasters advocating for women to not be able to vote
Clevererer | 12 hours ago
The Are We Dating the Same Guy groups, with hundreds of thousands of followers in every major city, would be one example. Ostensibly about women's safety, they are in practice places where women can anonymously dox their dates and spread whatever lies they choose.
Much of IG and TT openly embraces and openly promotes hating all men.
Rather than tucked away in some dark corner of the internet, like the manosphere, the "femosphere" equivalent is right out in the open.
And it's having measurable effects on young women, who now have demonstrably more sexist opinions of their male peers than vice versa. Your temptation to blame this on "Well, their male peers suck" is further proof.
Mixtrix_of_delicioux | 14 hours ago
Where is the systemic repression and dehumanization of men in our society? And who promotes and amplifies that way of thinking because they benefit from it?
Hint: It's not women.
Few-Coat1297 | 14 hours ago
I have not said they are equivalent. Could you show me where I did say misogyny and misandry were the same?
One of the biggest issue facing young women and men is their inability to critically think. It allows people to manipulate them and harmess pre-existing cognitive bias against certain groups, whether it be immigrants, women or indeed men.
Clevererer | 10 hours ago
> Were is the systemic repression and dehumanization of men in our society?
Are you serious? Let's assume so, so here's a list
Now since you'll handwave away any and all men's issues with the conversation-ending and supremely reductionist, wrong and unhelpful "Who caused those issues?" I do not expect you to read or reply to anything you might see there. But you asked, so there it is.
Mixtrix_of_delicioux | 10 hours ago
Thanks! You are correct- I WILL ask what systems caused those issues, and suspect that, no matter what, you'll continue to not blame it on the people who've been in charge for lifetimes.
Have a nice day!
Clevererer | 8 hours ago
The wealthy? Yes, that's who I blame, as I should.
But way down here at the lowest rungs of society where both you and I reside, I also blame you. Not for causing these issues. Neither of us have that power.
I blame you for not taking serious issues seriously, and derailing serious conversations with the same misguided blame game.
Have fun on your summer break!
treesarealive777 | 14 hours ago
If Misandry was used in response to actual hatred, I might agree with this take.
But mostly, its thrown around when Women try to talk about their experiences as a class, or when Women talk about how they arent willing to settle for the normalized abuse you see in heterosexual relationships.
Men will say you are a misandrist at the same time as they speak in degrading ways about you and other women.
I would be more apt to care about the accusation if every conversation discussing Women's issues wasnt reframed to make it palatable for people who dont want to listen anyway.
Few-Coat1297 | 14 hours ago
I am sorry but misandry is misandry. We dont qualify incel comments by saying well it is ok, because it is coming perhaps from a bad experience with women as a class.
treesarealive777 | 14 hours ago
Nah. They arent the same thing.
Misandry is basically called in response to any acknowledgement of Men as a class at this point.
I didnt create the sexual hierarchy. But, Im not going to ignore the consequences of it just because it makes some Men, who are often perpetuating Misogyny with the same breath they call out Misandry, uncomfortable.
Few-Coat1297 | 13 hours ago
What isnt the same thing??
Stop with the mental gymnastics around what is defined clearly as hate speech. We can acknowledge it has very few downstream real life consequences but that doesn't mean
It doesn't exist as true hate speech
it is harmless
You & I may be able to contextualise statements like all men are trash rapists or the world would be a better place without men or equivalent, but a young 14 year old boy browsing Tiktok wont. They leave posts thinking either they are shamefully responsible for something they do not understand and / or that women hate them. What they do with those conclusions is left to parenting and online influencers.
SilverMedal4Life | 11 hours ago
To play devil's advocate here, are women being shown this same consideration?
Are we being just as critical of misogynistic men posting online, scaring and radicalizing young girls?
To put that another way... why is it the responsibility of women to be the counterweight, here?
Few-Coat1297 | 11 hours ago
Go on to any non gendered sub and see for yourself. Look ar the downvotes one guy replying to me got, quite rightly too. Yes, misogyny is routinely challenged online, and not only that, women ask us as men ro challenge it. Look at the focus that has been put on the manosphere from artilcles like this to Louis Therouxs documentary to BBC dramas like Adolescencs to even being a core story on soaps as it is currently on Eastenderd. Slets stop talking about counterweights.
SilverMedal4Life | 11 hours ago
There isn't a multibillion-dollar grievance industry steering women towards populism and cults of personality, is my point, nor do I think women can stop it.
ivecompletelylostit | 10 hours ago
It's both though. I do think that the flames of gender war are being flamed everywhere for nefarious reasons and many women are falling into it and being straight up hateful towards men, but there are a lot of dudes who call literally everything misandry constantly even if it makes no sense whatsoever
Few-Coat1297 | 9 hours ago
Ok but why is it so hard for the person in the excnamge to acknowledge even that some women are being propagandised to hate men?
awkwardbirb | 12 hours ago
Yeah there's some ultimate irony that in the pursuit of "peak masculinity/manliness," they are so utterly far away from either. To worry about your masculinity is to be insecure about yourself, which is neither masculine or manly.
AttonJRand | 9 hours ago
Women are also affected by a similar thing. Estrogen gets pushed much the same way TRT gets sold as a panacea for everything.
Its kinda awful how everyone is being assailed by grifters selling them prescriptions with significant side effects as a cure all.
fcocyclone | 11 hours ago
>The only good news is that the chances of them passing on their DNA is low.
The bad news is there's a new sucker born every minute.
And the "unfuckable" are that much easier to manipulate into anger as well. Like, to the point that result could be viewed as intentional. It leaves them with nowhere to turn but a cult-like group that will reinforce their grievances.
Grimke42 | 13 hours ago
That is part of the grift. If the product actually worked the consumer would not need to but more. And it has nothing to do with DNA
arkofjoy | 13 hours ago
The point of my joke about their DNA is that the teachings of the "manosphere" has rendered them unfuckable. So they are unlikely to sire a child.
Grimke42 | 10 hours ago
I know, I’m just prickly about DNA jokes because their foolishness is learned not inherited. Sorry if I was in attack mode.
arkofjoy | 3 hours ago
I just assumed that I hadn't written what I was trying to say in a clear way. All good
YaBoiSammus | 7 hours ago
Whenever I think of this shit I just think that it’s built on Jeffery Epstein playing a big role behind the scenes.
Clevererer | 7 hours ago
You're not too far off. He was known to post on 4chan. 4chan is what Steve Bannon tapped into in the early days, using grievance as engagement bait. Fast forward a few years, Trump is elected and Joe Rogan takes off by amplifying messages they'd test ran on 4chan. Flash forward another few years and Rogan gets Trump elected.
Picture a toilet where the drain pipe leads back to the toilet bowl.
Male_Volence | 12 hours ago
Are all of the YouTube dating gurus, OnlyFans models, and dating apps a Multi-billion-Dollar False Hope Industry?
But we are not ready for that conversation.
Totemguy | 8 hours ago
All movements become an industry. We have an industry to take care of the homeless where the CEOs earn millions and live in Hawaii, an industry of gender equality, of taking care of minorities, of people for trans, of people against trans, pro and against abortion, anything you can think of will be weaponized and commodified and shittified.
Few-Coat1297 | 17 hours ago
This can be said of any influencer online , it is hardly a revolutionary notion. Everyone has advice to sell from Tiktok feminists to manosphere types. You are always only a click away from a product.
Electrical-Penalty44 | 16 hours ago
Bingo. But males (especially white ones) are the favorite whipping boys of leftists, just as non-white (male) immigrants are the favorite whipping boys of the far-right.
trinitrotolerance | 16 hours ago
It’s really funny seeing an aggrieved male in the comments peddling the same manosphere martyr nonsense that the article just said was disingenuous grifting meant to take your money.
Electrical-Penalty44 | 10 hours ago
I'm not aggrieved at all. I am just pointing out how people of different political affiliations choose their grievences, or perceived grievances, to make make $$$$ online. Ideas are products now.
No_Employ__ | 7 hours ago
It really does feel like people can’t appreciate anything about men or being manly. There is so much to appreciate
No-Ordinary-5376 | 16 hours ago
I agree. Both sides are behaving similarly just manifesting in different ways. A liberal with trump derangement syndrome is just as bad as crazy trump supporters with their stores and crazy shit. It's turning politics into a substitute for meaning and frankly religion.
Paksarra | 15 hours ago
It's so weird that conservatives are trying to brand any and all criticism of a felonous rapist as mental illness.
No-Ordinary-5376 | 15 hours ago
I'm sorry but you again assuming my political leaning kinda plays into it. I'm not saying it's a real mental illness but I know people personally who definitely act crazy whenever Trump is brought up. And I'm sorry but there's a correlation between mental illness and disorder like depression, anxiety, bipolar, and the like and far leftist politics. Just like I would say far right politics has a correlation with narcissism.
Paksarra | 15 hours ago
I honestly think the "correlation" isn't a difference in rates, but because the right wing pushes a machismo approach to mental health and doesn't get treated. Psychology is fake medicine, no real man sees a therapist, you're not depressed you're just lazy.
So the left gets associated with mental illness (because to the MAGAs moderately progressive views are "far left extremism") because they're all for getting treated and being open about it instead of pretending everything is fine and blaming the person whose brain isn't working right for not praying hard enough.
No-Ordinary-5376 | 15 hours ago
We live in the best time to live in all of human history. The common mental illnesses that people have nowadays are basically the result of having nothing worse to think about. I struggle with existential "depression" where I think way too hard about the crazy idea that something came from nothing which lead me and my subjective experience and it makes me depressed and not give a fuck. My point being that being healthy, active, and busy within a community of people will do more for most people's mental health than any drugs or therapy. Now to be clear, mental illnesses are real, but the majority of the population does not have one.
Paksarra | 15 hours ago
>My point being that being healthy, active, and busy within a community of people will do more for most people's mental health than any drugs or therapy.
Yet conservatives screech and cry at the very concept of a walkable community with stores and homes in close enough proximity that you can walk anywhere you need to go in 15 minutes, because a "fifteen minute city" means radical liberals want to ban cars and forbid travel.
We can't have free public places to exist like libraries and community centers and national parks because that's socialism.
Yet it's the liberals who are responsible for mental illness due to not being content with living in a neighborhood where you have to get in a car to go anywhere and the neighbors will call the cops if they see your kids playing outside?
No-Ordinary-5376 | 14 hours ago
I've never met a conservative that's against parks and libraries. And I live in a very conservative rural area.
You don't need walkable neighborhoods to be healthy and active. That's a false dichotomy.
You are talking about liberal suburban and urban areas which preach safety above all else. It's not conservative call the cops when there's kids outside. The conservatives are the ones letting their kids ride dirt bikes, hunt and other dangerous activities that build character. The conservatives around me have communities in their churches, sports leagues and other avenues. The loneliness epidemic is mostly urban and suburban.
Paksarra | 14 hours ago
>I've never met a conservative that's against parks and libraries.
Then why do conservatives keep voting in politicians who want to defund our libraries and sell our parks to private equity?
Why are conservatives against walkable communities existing? They don't have to live there, but they hate that other people want to choose a different lifestyle than neighborhoods you have to cross a five lane highway to leave.
80% of Americans live in a city or suburb. A lot of conservatives live in cities. My friend's kid has had the cops called because she and her neighbors were playing in the front yard with an adult supervising from the far side of a window.
trinitrotolerance | 16 hours ago
And the other type of moron shows up: the enlightened centrist who is just so far above these people who care about things. Please share more wisdom with the class, Buddha.
No-Ordinary-5376 | 15 hours ago
I'm really not a centrist. I just think modern political movements have turned into essentially religions for both sides. Both sides don't actually interact with the other side in daily life. They live in media echo chambers leading to further political polarization. I'm pro life, pro universal healthcare, pro welfare, anti war and empire. I'm really a communitarian if anything.
trinitrotolerance | 15 hours ago
Caring about something that materially impacts your life is not “polarization”. There is one party that is directly against every one of your alleged ideals.
scriptkiddie1337 | 13 hours ago
You've been brainwashed by reddit into having negative thoughts about centrists
ExplicitDrift | 8 hours ago
I have literally zero empathy for any losers involved with “the manosphere”. If you honestly think the best solution to not being able to peacefully coexist with women is to cut them off completely, you’re just plain stupid. That’s all there is to it. Grow up.
Clevererer | 3 hours ago
There are plenty of women who've entirely given up on men. Would you also tell them they're stupid?
rightsidedown | 10 hours ago
This all true, but it doesn't matter when the only counter narrative is telling the men that into this that you are a piece of shit and all the problem you have are your own fault. It's why Scott Galloway has been trying to setup alternatives. You've got people acting like a boy growing up in a divorced home to parent without college degrees in a broken down rust belt town with no jobs is more privileged than a girl growing up in an intact family with college graduating parents in a nice suburb. There's zero interest helping that boy succeed.
HeadPut3392 | 2 hours ago
While I do agree we need a better counter narrative, I really can't see what kind of counter narrative WOULD be effective against this. The 'manosphere' was built off of reasonable grievances held by men that became more extreme because those grievances were only expressed in an echo chamber. To create a counter narrative that is effective against the 'manosphere' you need to have another answer to those grievances, and thats not easy.
Clevererer | 3 hours ago
Scott Galloway has good points, but his advice for young men boils down to "Suck it up. Work harder."
In any other context, he'd be rightly criticized for spreading toxic masculinity. Yet in this particular context, he's lauded as a brilliant hero.
Odd how fickle that toxic masculinity label is.
maywander47 | 11 hours ago
The manosphere is filled with mommy-issue guys, little boys who are afraid of women and so depend on girls to prop up their 'masculinity.'
Diligent-Map1402 | 8 hours ago
I think it is more guys with daddy-issues, they never had good male role models so they fall for these pathetic performances of masculinity.
ThyNynax | 5 hours ago
It’s made up of both. Nice Guys who grew up dependent on mom/women that learned to be afraid of disappointing women and were never taught to develop healthy boundaries. They hit the manosphere with years of pent up frustration, sometimes heartbreak, from always being expected to sacrifice their self-interest if a woman wants something, and find the first place to actually affirm their experiences.
Then there’s the daddy issues guys who exist in a constant state of insecurity and uncertainty over whether or not they’ll ever be accepted or respected “as a man.” They’re searching for an older man to affirm them and reassure them that they are own the right path. Someone to tell them that it’s possible to eventually escape the hell they feel like they live in.
You could say the Nice Guys have a daddy issues problem, but it’s not the same. They tend to have a very strong image of what kind of man to not be and are taught to strive to be the good little boy that mommy approves of. They “know” what kind of man they want to be, but are faced with a world that doesn’t really reward good behavior as much as it rewards effective behavior.
fewdo | 10 hours ago
I'm just glad that there's no huge cultural push to magnify all the faults of men. Imagine if women were being told to hate men everywhere they went too
horseradishstalker | 5 hours ago
Unfortunately, many people translate experience with a few individuals to apply to all people they consider part of that same group. It’s both a societal failing and a human failing.
Clevererer | 2 hours ago
> I'm just glad that there's no huge cultural push to magnify all the faults of men.
They are. And it's having an even greater effect.
>Findings show women under 30 are three times as likely to hold a negative view of men compared to the other way around.
https://www.newstatesman.com/podcasts/politics-podcast/2026/05/why-do-young-women-hate-men-2
https://www.the-independent.com/news/uk/home-news/women-men-femosphere-new-statesman-poll-b2958208.html
Strange-Target-515 | 8 hours ago
Oh boy. Whats the latest scam to attack men and convince them to be ultra-subs?
Not interested bro we buying cats, dogs, and praying to Jesus.
youappeartobeajerk | 10 hours ago
They've got nothing on the grievance industry enshrined in higher ed. Grievance studies have pulled in billions in grant money. Combine that with all the profits from public speaking and publishing, not to mention six digit salaries and facilities and infrastructure to support them. All propped up by media and government regulation. Plus they can legitimize their activism by calling it "scholarly" activity, and people who rightly oppose it (like one should oppose the manosphere) get dehumanized as a nazi/fascist/bigot. The manosphere is a pale imitation of Academic Grievance, lacking the veil of legitimacy or protection from attack.
scriptkiddie1337 | 13 hours ago
The manosphere isn't multi-billion dollars. The combined worth of Clavicular, Tate, Myron, Sneako etc barely scratches the surface of that
Lfeaf-feafea-feaf | 8 hours ago
Dude, Instagram alone makes more than a billion from putting ads on manosphere videos. Why the fuck do you think 'the industry' are a handful of influencers? w00t
scriptkiddie1337 | 8 hours ago
Is Zuckerberg part of the manosphere now? No, he isn't. That's the platform making the money, not the top streamers. I'm pretty sure Michael Sartain debunked the same claim made by Mark Manson
scriptkiddie1337 | 8 hours ago
Lmao your comment got deleted. Try not to be so emotional and argue back with facts, logic, and reason. Anyways, if you have documented reciepts of the billions in the manosphere then share it. You could expose Tate, Sneako etc and be a hero
turtlekissinglips | 12 hours ago
Isn't it a reference to how they are more like fronts for money laundering by Russian oligarchs and tech billionaires?
scriptkiddie1337 | 12 hours ago
That would be difficult to pinpoint. Like is there anything documented about any of the big streamers doing that?
turtlekissinglips | 12 hours ago
Tate admitted he was funded by Russian billionaires Viktor Vekselberg and Petr Aven but stopped accepting money from them once the EU sanctioned them. The Clavicular guy says he's in frequent contact with Thiel, gets invited to his orgy parties.
scriptkiddie1337 | 10 hours ago
He was invited, he was also blacklisted for publicy calling them a 'Diddy party'
Not sure about Tate and Russian funding
HeadPut3392 | 4 hours ago
While I do think this is true in some ways, one thing it gets wrong is where this came from.
These grievances weren't manufactured, they are the result of young men feeling like they have no place in society. Men have always been the primary moneymakers in relationships, and despite the movements to get women in the workforce that standard still remains. Our culture still expects men to bring money to the relationship, which is becoming increasingly difficult in an economy where a family living on a single person's paycheck is becoming increasingly impossible. On the other hand, our culture has begun to expect women to bring less to the relationship, which has created a huge divide between what men had in the past and what they have now.
These grievances weren't manufactured, they were taken advantage of. The sentiment of "men have to work harder to fill their role in a relationship while women are held to a lower standard" was silenced, only to be spoken aloud around other men, and turned into the sentiment "women can't be trusted with rights" that is being increasingly common nowadays. The same happened with many other sentiments commonly held among not just those who consider themselves to be part of the 'manosphere' but young men in general. Young men didn't start out as extremists, they were forced to keep their opinions to small echo chambers, and that created the extremism. People like Andrew Tate are just profiting off of it, because its easier to profit off of existing grievances than it is to create new ones.
Few_Fish8771 | 11 hours ago
The transition to neofeudalism and surveillance capitalism is by intention abusive, predatory, demoralizing, basically men don’t like being slaves. Women want men who can provide and take care of them like non-slaves.
Abuse is intentional. Demoralization is intentional. Its a one sided war where the endgame is you have nothing and parasites have everything.
Neither men nor women want to address the real issue, because publicly addressing the real issue gets you punished by master. by the system. However redirecting their anger anywhere else but where it belongs is rewarded as it avoids those creating the problems having to stop abusing and stealing.
Eventually this leads to total system collapse and warlordism not neofeudalism.
Fine_Payment1127 | 4 hours ago
As opposed to DEI and “civil rights,” which is multi-trillions! Ah yes, that has the veneer of authority behind it, it’s totally different
PrayToTheAI | 17 hours ago
Yeah, same as modern day "feminism" (usually selling beauty products), what's your point?
TheModWhoShaggedMe | 16 hours ago
The point is that there is no class better protected in human civilization than men. They possess all the built-in advantages yet moan and groan to each other on the interwebs like total man dorks. What a bunch of whiny b1tches!
*to be clear, the subject of the OP is the man-o-sphere, so keep responses limited to that dominant in-group of whiny leetches.
Vivid-Suspect-3873 | 12 hours ago
The people they are appealing to are typically poor losers who have no power to exercise over anyone. They hear “but you’re a man you have nothing to complain about you can do whatever you want” and then they do creepy shit to justify that story and that’s why this sort of thing thrives. A 24 year old kid with nothing going for him doesn’t care about the advantages of rich white men throughout history when they are broke and stressed and not good at relationships
PrayToTheAI | 16 hours ago
Would you say the same about gay man in Sudan, or transman in Saudi Arabia ? Are they just a bunch of whiny bitches ? Maybe being a man doesn't automatically protect you
*Silly goose doesn’t understand that being a man does not automatically make you protected.
TheModWhoShaggedMe | 16 hours ago
Why? They aren't in the dominant group like straight men! Your whataboutism needs a little knob polish, home slice!
*^^ silly goose doesn't even get the irony about the dominant in-group globally whining like bitches!
PrayToTheAI | 16 hours ago
"The point is that there is no class better protected in human civilization than men" This is literally what you said. I am just easily pointing out the logical gaps when you are talking about this topic. We both agree that gay men in Sudan are men; they are not protected. Maybe just stop talking bullshit about stuff you don't know anything about? Don't tell man how protected they are when they are clearly not.
Mixtrix_of_delicioux | 14 hours ago
Are gay men in Sudan the target market of the manosphere?
Good lordt, it's so exhausting to see this BS use of LGBTQ2A communities consistently trotted out liie some magical GOTCHA.
PrayToTheAI | 14 hours ago
"The point is that there is no class better protected in human civilization than men" I just demonstrated on a few very simple example why it's bullshit. I don't understand how you can easily dismiss serious struggles man face daily and be surprised when they find places that are more (atleast pretend to be) more empathetic with the struggles.
slainascully | 13 hours ago
Do you think gay women in Sudan or trans women in Saudi Arabia are somehow privileged in comparison?
PrayToTheAI | 13 hours ago
No, but I think Western feminists who demonize ANY man with no regard to their suffering are…
slainascully | 13 hours ago
So why did you bring up those groups? And western women like the ones in the US who don’t have federally mandated maternity leave? Who are facing abortion bans that risk their health and lives? Be specific.
PrayToTheAI | 10 hours ago
What exactly are you confused about? “The point is that there is no class better protected in human civilization than men.” It’s easy to point out the logical fallacy in this statement, which I did. Men are NOT the best-protected class in human civilization - only SOME men are. I have no doubt that any gay man in Sudan would love to exchange his life for that of a western woman.Yes even with abortion ban. By the way, there are enough women who voted Republican (around 40%), are extremely rich, or were the ones who suggested the policy you are talking about. Stop telling man how protected you are while enjoying the perks of the colonization.
slainascully | 9 hours ago
You have to be purposefully being this dense. Men are protected on the basis of sex. You brought up gay and trans men specifically because they are oppressed on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.
A gay man in Sudan would also love to be a western man, probably more. Because the privileged aspect is being western.
And I assume you mean 40% of white women voted Republican. That doesn’t mean 40% of all American women. Which also isn’t 40% of all women.
PrayToTheAI | 8 hours ago
“The point is that there is no class better protected in human civilization than men.” Could you point out to me exactly where she wrote “cis man”? Could you point out to me where she wrote “western man”? By the way, what about men who are physically or mentally impaired, men who are born into a persecuted minority (forced sterilisation in China), or men who were abandoned as children (example India) ? I am not dense; I am engaging with what was said. Being a man doesn't automatically make you protected, being a woman doesn't automatically make you a victim.
Fine_Payment1127 | 4 hours ago
This sort of laughable dishonesty is why you and your little narratives and authority figures no longer have any credibility
tartfall | 15 hours ago
All ideas are industries in the way this article uses that word, and popular ideas are multi billion dollar industries.
The frustration a lot of people have with this isn’t that it’s industry but that it’s a monopoly - a relatively small group of people with a relatively narrow set of solutions dominate this conversation because they are the only viable products for most customers. Progressive spaces only recently began even allowing selling this product at all, but it’s far from being competitive. It currently requires that any men’s rights discussion be first and foremost centered around women and their wellbeing. This is not a viable product
slashangel2 | 13 hours ago
Never spent a cent on that. Most info are free. Anything can be a business, why everything should be free?