Clearly the behavior is not changing, only their realization of both the internal and external optics of this process so far. Thankfully I've only ever used free tier things and they've never been a primary provider of any service for me, and I certainly will never become a paying customer and probably migrate what little I have there elsewhere. This isn't Yen's first misstep and certainly won't be his last.
On Friday, Andy Yen, the CEO of Proton, cancelled a series of nearly company-wide ‘re-interviews’ that would have forced employees to explain how they are using AI, with the clear intention that they may be fired if not using it enough in the eyes of Proton leadership, according to six current Proton employees and audio of an around two hour all-hands meeting obtained by 404 Media.
[...]
In one exchange, an employee in the company’s security Slack channel urged Proton to at least take a few days to pentest newly written code before pushing it live. “That’s bullshit and loser thinking. Of course it’s possible to be fast and secure,” Yen wrote in the channel at the end of August. “Stop thinking always of how to be slower, and focus more on how to be faster.” Yen added, “stop lovingly handcrafting all our code and use AI more.”
The re-interview cancellations likely don’t address the concerns of many Proton users, who are more focused on Proton’s deprioritization of security
[...]
“I don’t think he will change anything, and I think the only reason we had this meeting is because he has a rebellion on his hands,” one employee told 404 Media after the all-hands meeting on Friday.
Near the start of the meeting, Yen said, “I want to acknowledge myself, personally, that there was a communication failure on my part and there are many things that probably could and should have been communicated differently, and this is something that I’ll have to reflect on and improve over time. So I will do that.”
“So what does that mean going forward? Going forward, I'm still going to push,” he added.
[...]
After those discussions with leadership and the board, “We’ve decided to actually cancel the re-interviews,” Yen said. “Why? Well, I think actually in a, let’s say, unintentional way, they have actually already served their purpose.” As in, employees are now talking and learning about AI.
[...]
“We fucked up, we know we fucked up,” Butler later said in response to an employee’s comments in the meeting.
[...]
“They have said clearly the direction had not changed. As a Proton user that doesn’t reassure me,” the employee said. “As an employee, the re-interviews weren’t cancelled until this became public despite concerns raised by many of us. I think it goes beyond communication issues and growing pains.”
“Right now, everything seems consistent with it being damage control,” they said.
It's good that they're acknowledging the situation rather than denying it but it doesn't look like they're rethinking the actual development strategies they're pushing for. At least not so far.
Maybe slowing signups and attrition will change their mind. I'm surprised the board isn't pushing harder against this, but then Yen is apparently on the board.
I wonder if senior leadership could be replaced by AI at this rate. Proton is one of those companies that could do nothing and win -- since "getting security right" is not rocket science, and their competitors are few and far in between -- so incentivizing risky customer acquisition behaviours by promising large incentive packages to C-suite execs who promise to find growth (via launching new features) is the exact opposite of what their existing, profitable, conservative, security-focused customer base would want.
Admittedly I don't use their services, so I could be misreading the target demographic.
Really by their own words not replacing senior leadership with AI is loser thinking. If they want to focus more on being faster, then they need to stop lovingly crafting all their leadership decisions and join the future already. Yen can "reflect on and improve" his communication skills in a role more appropriate for his capabilities then.
I agree with everything but: I think "getting security right" is now harder than ever, with all the AI agents hammering all public services, using (and discovering!) vulnerabilities every day. We had more globally relevant vulnerabilities discoveries and hacks in the past month than would appear in 5 years previously.
I think that's part of the reason the proton employees are nervous about quickly pushing out features. And CEO ridiculing the call for pen testing... Well that just goes directly against their primary mission, as perceived by the customers.
Ironically, one HAS to use AI for the defense against attacking bots these days.
Too late for me, I'm already mid migration onto a different service. This isn't the only reason (they've been weird about crypto and AI for a while now), but this was the last straw for me.
It’s been mentioned in previous threads but I can’t stress enough how important it is you use your own domain for your email addresses. I left proton years ago for fastmail, before I got my own domain, and I had to keep proton’s app installed that whole time because I couldn’t keep track of all the places I needed to update my email. I started using my own domain after proton and have been able to move between other email providers without any hassle.
+1 to this for sure. i have done the same. i use fastmail as the base with my own domain(s) on top after leaving gmail, and it's so much better having an email address not tied to a particular service/company, so no matter what happens with my email providers, i can quickly migrate at anytime and just redirect my domain's mail records to whatever provider i need, without having to go log into my hundreds of online accounts and change my email (which is sometimes impossible or difficult, given not all sites provide a way of modifying this data).
I've already been through that pain once and still have a few accounts stuck on my mostly-unused gmail account. I need to go through another wave of cleanup and try to get the rest off.
i do recommend going with a common/stable TLD (com/net/org/etc) for email domains in particular. while it's not required- there are rare cases of some obscure TLDs being restricted/changed or pulled out from under domain holders in ways that force them to migrate. should be a rarity- just make sure whoever owns the TLD you're getting is a well-established/stable entity
Feel like companies and CEO's have lost the plot so hard these days that simply treating your customers, workers fairly and shutting up will be a strong signal of trustworthiness going into the future.
0x29A | 15 hours ago
Clearly the behavior is not changing, only their realization of both the internal and external optics of this process so far. Thankfully I've only ever used free tier things and they've never been a primary provider of any service for me, and I certainly will never become a paying customer and probably migrate what little I have there elsewhere. This isn't Yen's first misstep and certainly won't be his last.
Paul85 | 9 hours ago
You know, I was recently considering migrating everything to them. Not anymore! I only have an alternate email there, barely used. Easy to move.
d32 | an hour ago
Certainly not a first misstep. He publicly praised trump in the past.
[OP] post_below | 15 hours ago
From the article:
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[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
It's good that they're acknowledging the situation rather than denying it but it doesn't look like they're rethinking the actual development strategies they're pushing for. At least not so far.
Maybe slowing signups and attrition will change their mind. I'm surprised the board isn't pushing harder against this, but then Yen is apparently on the board.
snowgoon | 13 hours ago
From what I have read; Yen is on the board and a majority shareholder.
kacey | 14 hours ago
I wonder if senior leadership could be replaced by AI at this rate. Proton is one of those companies that could do nothing and win -- since "getting security right" is not rocket science, and their competitors are few and far in between -- so incentivizing risky customer acquisition behaviours by promising large incentive packages to C-suite execs who promise to find growth (via launching new features) is the exact opposite of what their existing, profitable, conservative, security-focused customer base would want.
Admittedly I don't use their services, so I could be misreading the target demographic.
userexec | 13 hours ago
Really by their own words not replacing senior leadership with AI is loser thinking. If they want to focus more on being faster, then they need to stop lovingly crafting all their leadership decisions and join the future already. Yen can "reflect on and improve" his communication skills in a role more appropriate for his capabilities then.
d32 | an hour ago
I agree with everything but: I think "getting security right" is now harder than ever, with all the AI agents hammering all public services, using (and discovering!) vulnerabilities every day. We had more globally relevant vulnerabilities discoveries and hacks in the past month than would appear in 5 years previously.
I think that's part of the reason the proton employees are nervous about quickly pushing out features. And CEO ridiculing the call for pen testing... Well that just goes directly against their primary mission, as perceived by the customers.
Ironically, one HAS to use AI for the defense against attacking bots these days.
Raistlin | 13 hours ago
Too late for me, I'm already mid migration onto a different service. This isn't the only reason (they've been weird about crypto and AI for a while now), but this was the last straw for me.
ogre | 12 hours ago
It’s been mentioned in previous threads but I can’t stress enough how important it is you use your own domain for your email addresses. I left proton years ago for fastmail, before I got my own domain, and I had to keep proton’s app installed that whole time because I couldn’t keep track of all the places I needed to update my email. I started using my own domain after proton and have been able to move between other email providers without any hassle.
0x29A | 11 hours ago
+1 to this for sure. i have done the same. i use fastmail as the base with my own domain(s) on top after leaving gmail, and it's so much better having an email address not tied to a particular service/company, so no matter what happens with my email providers, i can quickly migrate at anytime and just redirect my domain's mail records to whatever provider i need, without having to go log into my hundreds of online accounts and change my email (which is sometimes impossible or difficult, given not all sites provide a way of modifying this data).
I've already been through that pain once and still have a few accounts stuck on my mostly-unused gmail account. I need to go through another wave of cleanup and try to get the rest off.
i do recommend going with a common/stable TLD (com/net/org/etc) for email domains in particular. while it's not required- there are rare cases of some obscure TLDs being restricted/changed or pulled out from under domain holders in ways that force them to migrate. should be a rarity- just make sure whoever owns the TLD you're getting is a well-established/stable entity
milkywayflyinginsect | 46 minutes ago
Feel like companies and CEO's have lost the plot so hard these days that simply treating your customers, workers fairly and shutting up will be a strong signal of trustworthiness going into the future.