“Living at home” might obscure people who are contributing to the household or caretakers. But it’s also undercounting people who are living *independently* in homes they wouldn’t be able to without massive, direct, and in some cases ongoing parental transfers. I’m within spitting distance of 40 and I know an astonishing number of these people. The market and economy are just broken.
Yes and yet if you go on any reddit finance sub they'd have you think they all make $300k/yr because they circle jerk and won't admit the enormous amount of help they got from their family. I don't blame them for getting help but I think it's shitty to treat saving money while living with mom and dad as an accomplishment when you're 30.
I dunno man I frequent many of the finance subs and there are plenty of “I’m 25 with 200K saved for retirement am I doing OK” and then you find out they’re living at home, only paying for gas in their car and maybe their cell phone.
So... I'm sensing you want it to be generally accepted that "asking a question about if you're on track to meet retirement goals" = An accomplishment? Yeah, dunno how that works.
That's not even getting to the part where we're suggesting people are simultaneously bragging about accruing money in their 20s, but also choosing to undermine their "achievement" by revealing that they're still living at home.
Wouldn't this hypothetical clout chaser just... lie?
It’s obvious that the intention isn’t to ask a question, it’s to humble brag about how much money they have in their bank account. “I only have 20x the median savings for my age, will I have to eat cat food in retirement after it compounds to $10M by the time I’m 65👉👈🥺?” And usually they don’t volunteer the information that they live with their parents until it becomes obvious from their income or their budget, if they share those metrics, that they’re getting spoonfed. The retirement subs are filled with these kinds of posts.
Yeah some bitch today on a finance sub asked if she could afford a $55k car when she stated her monthly net income was roughly $14k a month. People ask the dumbest fking questions which makes me question if they are telling the truth.
Reddits classic retort "StRaWmAn!~~!!". Doesn't even make sense in this context. Literally go on any of the finance subs and read for yourself the impossible situations people claim to be in.
Reddits classic retort "StRaWmAn!~~!!" -- A man who hasn't yet realised he basically constructs all his arguments out of strawmen and people don't cotton to it.
>Doesn't even make sense in this context.
I see this is confusing to you, being one of those benighted people who genuinely cannot understand the concept of "other people's experiences".
I can actually hear the gears in your brain working: "How can he not have seen the thousands of people on the finance subs bragging about living at home aged 30? That's definitely the only valid interpretation of the posts from these people I've read, right?"
The people given money for down payments in their 20s are the ones on house number whatever at 40 and have consistently gone bigger and more expensive each time while not necessarily out earning those who are still renting or just now getting into their first houses.
We used to have unions and scab labor was reviled.
Now corporations are free to globally scab labor, or even import it from other countries.
That is the problem, full stop. The supply of labor goes up, and the prevailing wage goes down. It's masked by inflation, but it's not a living wage anymore.
This is the reason single income families no longer exist outside of c-execs, doctors and lawyers, and even dual income families can't afford to have kids.
Yes, and if you dare be against legal or illegal immigration on Reddit, you are LITERALLY Hitler.
Democrats and unions were against immigrant labor because it undercut wages. Now that private unions are basically broken and public unions have no fear of wages lowered due to foreign slave labor, immigration is good (for their votes).
Legal or illegal immigrants are people with hopes and aspirations just like you. If you're against them having the opportunity to live the same dream you want to live, what does it make you?
Perhaps not Hitler, but for sure somewhere on that spectrum.
I’m one of them. I got help from my parents. Tho to make a long story short I had a home I bought with my own savings and did have that to sell. But they helped me out. I never asked, they offered.
2 of my cousins, both college educated and employed in their fields that require a degree (and these are not useless degrees. Engineering and Speech Therapy), just moved back home. It is entirely too expensive out there. Something must change.
anecdotal experience for your specific situation. I went to Purdue, most of my friends are all engineers, all are making $200k+ in their 30's. Friends in california that I grew up with that are in engineering are also all making $200k+. If you're an engineer and not making a livable wage that's on you, not the system.
Well....yeah. Where I live in FL it's all either massive, overpriced houses, or "luxury apartments" which have insane rent and are really pretty shitty with a new coat of paint. True starter homes, or smaller homes in general, do not exist outside of 55+ communities
They call it a luxury because its luxurious to have a roof over your head and living in a 100 year old building that has the same sign outfront it's always had, just now with Luxury stapled to it like a cow turd with a flower on it. And don't forget the Landlord Cumshot White paint special. One of my apartments they had painted over a metal sink with it. They now charge over 1500 for the same place when I used to pay 650 before 2020.
And your name too. I love seeing a bunch of stupid memes abt political stuff on serious subs...every jd vance variation makes my day a little brighter...
Buying a house seems like a gamble. I’m renting a room from a dude and I think he’s going to foreclose. He was gainfully employed, lost his job, reduced hours at his new job, and now he rents out every single room to afford the 2700 dollar mortgage. Pushing 50 years old with a revolving door of gross roommates. He just told me he can’t afford the energy bill that keeps going up.
2700 for an entire house isn't bad at all. I pay more than that for the 1.5 bedroom ground floor apartment that I rent an hour outside of the city and split with a roommate.
You're paying more 2700 to SPLIT a ground floor 1.5 bedroom apartment and hour outside the city?? You are getting taken for a ride, that would be ridiculous in LA. It would be ridiculous in New York!
Feel like being able to afford solar panels now while they are cheap could save some people a lot of money in the future if AI data centers actually make it and increase everyones power pills even more.
He’s not wise with his money that’s for sure, and he didn’t do enough research before buying a house in an economically depressed area. His fault for sure, a mistake he’s going to pay for a long time. Can’t afford to sell, can’t afford to leave.
It's trending up which is a bad trend, but I'm not sure it would be a record if you go back far enough. Multi generational households used to be pretty common before the post WW2 boom.
It’s been part of English (and therefore US) culture to move out early for at least 500 years. It’s not quite as prevalent in other cultures like Italy. So it very well might be a record. It would be interesting to see the numbers.
Even before the great depression multi generational households were more common. You had more people working in agriculture and living on the same family farm.
Funny enough I was just rereading The Grapes of Wrath and mentioned to someone at a dinner how the way Rose of Sharon planning to leave the Joad household once they settled in California was treated with such shock really put the way in which things changed in the last 100 years into perspective.
It's a pretty interesting read in general now that I'm pushing 40 and have a lot more context for the world than I did when I struggled through it in high school.
They even touched a little bit on how the cotton boom which ultimately lead to the dust bowl was accelerated by WWI as cotton was used for both uniforms as well as explosives. I believe it was mentioned that the farmers wanted to rotate crops but were forced to grow cotton, although it was earlier in the book so my memory is fuzzy.
There were strong movements opposing all of this exploitation back then but then nationalism during WWII redirected a lot of that energy. I think Woody Guthrie is an interesting example there, a lot of his early songs were very critical of the powerful forces in America, and the government itself, but many of his songs morphed over time (like the missing verse in This Land is Your Land) and he himself used his music to the benefit of the US government during the war.
That’s because they were still recovering from the Great Depression in 1929. I grew up with a father that bought his first house while working at a Burger Chef. I knew a guy who worked the counter at a bowling alley that had a house. It was so much easier back in the 70s and 80s.
This post in general will spark a lot of fighting and complaining, but this is a good and neutral lens to look at the issue through. Whether or not a reversion to pre-GI bill, pre-baby boomer standard of living is a good thing is up to the beholder.
The median first homebuyer age is higher than ever, it’s like 37. This is simply a logical extension of that and rising costs for people. Moreover, by living at home, you can save money to afford a house and save on other expenses. I would also imagine there is a cultural component because in certain cultures it’s more common for people to stay at home and live with their parents to take care of them.
National median home price is just over 400K apparently.
A 10% down payment being about 40K then, so even if you can save 8K a year, which is a big if, then it still takes 5 years of saving to get that down-payment. Figure you come out of college at 22, that means you aren't home buying until around 27 at the earliest. And if you can't save 8k a year, it's going to take even longer.
Also consider that the prices of homes rise rapidly. So in the 5 years you were saving, the prices of the homes might go up 30-50%. So after 5 years of saving for the down payment, you're probably still another 3 years away. Actually, when we consider the rate of price increase, if you can't save at LEAST that 8K every year, you're just never going to make it.
This pushes your age to 30 before you START to buy that median home. And if you have to tap your savings for any reason, you're probably adding another year to that at a miminum.
Considering this, yes, it is not surprising that a record number of under 35s are living at home. For most, it's the only chance they have at saving up for that home downpayment.
It is even more when you add in yearly taxes and utilities, which depending on your area, could shift the mortgage into being unaffordable or being house poor.
I’m one of them. It’s not ideal but it’s probably the smartest choice if you’re already single and plan on staying that way, so long as you contribute/earn your keep. AI agents will replace the vast majority of white collar jobs in a few years. I’d rather keep saving and investing than rent (at market prices) or buy a house.
Who treats it like an accomplishment? It’s a savvy means of ensuring for most people. But also multi gen homes have been the way of living for most of human history.
Modern living has afforded people the opportunity to get away from toxic relatives. Multi generational housing isn’t necessarily the best option for a lot of people.
I make median salary for my area and would be stupid to move out, it's insanely expensive, even with me paying all of the bills at home, it's still cheaper than moving out and I'm able to sock away money in my 401k
Probably not? I'm gay so that's not something I consider, especially living at home. And to be clear, even though I'm living at home, I pay for everything now (except groceries). My parents would need to rent out the other rooms to stay in the house if I left because social security would barely cover the bills.
I enjoyed the few years living with my parents after college. Our relationship developed more into a friendship. We had coffee in the morning together before work. I contributed to their bills and home repairs. I paid off student loans in a reasonable time then put away a significant sum for a down payment on a house I bought before 30 with my partner, who had the same experience living home. This financial head start has really helped us navigate unexpected expenditures years later and afford our kids more easily. I will never regret that extra time spent with my parents, siblings and dogs.
It's indicative of a bad economic situation for sure, but on the other hand it's probably a practice society would benefit from returning to if we could get over ourselves for a moment. Multi-generational households used to be a lot more common throughout history.
It makes a ton of financial sense, it's more environmentally sound, it would help alleviate the housing crunch, and one could argue that the level of separation many of us have from our families these days has been bad for us on the whole.
Its been years since my dad and step mom kicked me out at 18, but the years of gaslighting and bullying about how horrible of a person I was for being unhappy about being homeless really fucked with me and are hard to get over.
Like I see endless articles like this that prove they were wrong. But even at the time I saw how literally every single classmate of mine was being supported through and after college.
Its so hard to get over that kind of mind fuck, being abused and gaslit, and your parents friends siding with them, even a councilor at some crisis mental health place gave me a huge attitude for not wanting to be homeless and thinking my family should help me. Really is enough to make you doubt your sanity. I looked up the reviews for the mental health center after, and that lady apparently had a habit of bullying people at their most vulnerable, there are so many bad people in the world, and they mostly go after the vulnerable, and lucky normal people just wont believe you how bad it is, just world fallacy I guess.
The USA is getting cheap labor for caretaking for the most vulnerable while hoping adults don’t kill each other OR maybe do kill each other literally or figuratively.
They goalpost keeps moving and i dont see why that would chabge
First home owners are not gonna be a thing. We will eat the bugs, sleep in the pod, own nothing and be happy (or be sent to happy camps for reevaluation
As the population gets higher globally, and in the US, the land which can be usefully converted to housing becomes more scarce. A commute to work can only be so far. I suspect this is but one example of a broader trend towards more dense living situations.
Not my cup of tea, personally. I'm much happier living on a farm. But I also know I'm not the norm in many ways haha
And yet depopulation continues in japan’s rural areas because young people want to move closer to Tokyo and other major cities. Immigration would help, but it would be a bandaid for a country that’s all about social harmony and rules.
There is not a shortage of land in most American cities, we have massive surface parking lots, oversized freeway interchanges that are only that size because they were designed to displace communities, and Levitt-style communties that could easily fit 4 starter homes. The only shortage is of good policy and zoning laws.
I agree that zoning is a huge part of the issue, but the shortage isn’t just of land in general but of land in proximity to places that jobs have centralized
There’s no shortage of land, you could triple our population and still be lower density than France a place known for its large rural areas. The issue is restructure zoning and regulation making it too difficult to build housing despite higher wages
Where I am it's not even much cheaper to live out in the country, you def get more for your money but the base cost of having a place at all remains high.
Well if we had built apartment buildings, moving to a new unit would be an option. We didn't. We built single family homes. So it makes sense that people would continue living together in larger numbers.
Older people holding homes hoping they can sell them as their retirement nest egg are driving this issue but they are stuck in their homes because of poor financing conditions and not being able to live with downgrading their housing while likely paying rent for a property they don’t think is worth it. So they wait and then die in their oversized houses.
Yes - housing prices and rates are high. But so are a lot of Gen Z incomes.
My girlfriend's son is 26. Makes around $120k a year as a lineman. Most of her kids' friends are blue collar. This is in NC, so medium COL.
Instead of putting his money toward housing, it's going toward diesel trucks and other trappings of redneck life.
Almost all of them are in their 20s and some combination of plumbers, electricians, linemen, a detailing shop owner, etc. They're are all basically right near or above six figures.
The girls are mostly in medical or pink collar stuff. They don't make as much.
I graduated college in 2010 as a finance major and worked in IT in finance adjacent roles for twelve years. I crossed $100k one year, but that was with some COVID-era retention payments that wouldn't apply today. I make $85k now.
Almost none of their friends live on their own. They have it too easy at home.
> Almost all of them are in their 20s and some combination of plumbers, electricians, linemen, a detailing shop owner, etc. They're are all basically right near or above six figures.
Sounds like your experience is with a very niche sector of people in that age range, and isn't applicable to the majority of GenZ.
I don't know anybody where I live in LA that's just pumping out vehicles and upgrade their lifestyle the ones that are doing that are doing it artificially with credit cards and they are getting repo or living at home with over $1000 payments on cars and that's the only expense they don't have kids
Got it. I had trouble making sense of what you wrote, and literally didn't know what point you were making lol; was like, okay... Well uh, cool. No offense, I'm probably just a bit too tired.
I can't speak to what things are like in other areas.
Rural, blue collar people, who mostly don't have any university education or two-year degrees at best, are going to be a totally different reference point than Gen Z kids who went to Stanford or MIT and are working at frontier AI labs or something.
The point being is that blue collar people seem to be doing very well. RNs and any sort of healthcare people are doing well. White collar salaries and job availability are in the toilet in my neck of the woods.
Skilled trades have paid well since they adopted unions, what, 50 ish ish years ago? RNs are NOT doing well from my anecdata. I'm friends with 6 of them kind of spread out over the country, and it's a bad time to be a nurse. Hell, head over to r/nurses and you'll see a lot there.
Just saying, you described a very specific demographic, then applied your observations to 50 million people.
Regardless, this is probably a pointless discussion, apologies for chiming in.
DeepHerting | 7 hours ago
“Living at home” might obscure people who are contributing to the household or caretakers. But it’s also undercounting people who are living *independently* in homes they wouldn’t be able to without massive, direct, and in some cases ongoing parental transfers. I’m within spitting distance of 40 and I know an astonishing number of these people. The market and economy are just broken.
TheEquationSmelter | 6 hours ago
Yes and yet if you go on any reddit finance sub they'd have you think they all make $300k/yr because they circle jerk and won't admit the enormous amount of help they got from their family. I don't blame them for getting help but I think it's shitty to treat saving money while living with mom and dad as an accomplishment when you're 30.
afghamistam | 5 hours ago
>I think it's shitty to treat saving money while living with mom and dad as an accomplishment when you're 30.
I mean that seems like a strawman you've invented, rather than sentiments any real person has actually expressed.
YuckyBurps | 3 hours ago
I dunno man I frequent many of the finance subs and there are plenty of “I’m 25 with 200K saved for retirement am I doing OK” and then you find out they’re living at home, only paying for gas in their car and maybe their cell phone.
cattlemanish | 4 minutes ago
And what’s wrong with it? They made the sacrifice of staying at home to build wealth.
Wealth doesn’t come easy, you gotta make sacrifices
afghamistam | 3 hours ago
So... I'm sensing you want it to be generally accepted that "asking a question about if you're on track to meet retirement goals" = An accomplishment? Yeah, dunno how that works.
That's not even getting to the part where we're suggesting people are simultaneously bragging about accruing money in their 20s, but also choosing to undermine their "achievement" by revealing that they're still living at home.
Wouldn't this hypothetical clout chaser just... lie?
YuckyBurps | 3 hours ago
It’s obvious that the intention isn’t to ask a question, it’s to humble brag about how much money they have in their bank account. “I only have 20x the median savings for my age, will I have to eat cat food in retirement after it compounds to $10M by the time I’m 65👉👈🥺?” And usually they don’t volunteer the information that they live with their parents until it becomes obvious from their income or their budget, if they share those metrics, that they’re getting spoonfed. The retirement subs are filled with these kinds of posts.
And don’t worry, plenty of them lie too.
Rude_Mirror7441 | 2 hours ago
Yeah some bitch today on a finance sub asked if she could afford a $55k car when she stated her monthly net income was roughly $14k a month. People ask the dumbest fking questions which makes me question if they are telling the truth.
TheEquationSmelter | 5 hours ago
Reddits classic retort "StRaWmAn!~~!!". Doesn't even make sense in this context. Literally go on any of the finance subs and read for yourself the impossible situations people claim to be in.
afghamistam | 4 hours ago
Reddits classic retort "StRaWmAn!~~!!" -- A man who hasn't yet realised he basically constructs all his arguments out of strawmen and people don't cotton to it.
>Doesn't even make sense in this context.
I see this is confusing to you, being one of those benighted people who genuinely cannot understand the concept of "other people's experiences".
I can actually hear the gears in your brain working: "How can he not have seen the thousands of people on the finance subs bragging about living at home aged 30? That's definitely the only valid interpretation of the posts from these people I've read, right?"
cattlemanish | 3 minutes ago
It’s still a strawman argument.
untraiined | 3 hours ago
this is literally the definition of strawman, there are 300 million people in the US alot of them are doing well
beams13 | 6 hours ago
The people given money for down payments in their 20s are the ones on house number whatever at 40 and have consistently gone bigger and more expensive each time while not necessarily out earning those who are still renting or just now getting into their first houses.
Gamer_Grease | 6 hours ago
Owning a house at all before you’re 40 now means you’re extremely ahead of the game.
MrMadden | 5 hours ago
We used to have unions and scab labor was reviled.
Now corporations are free to globally scab labor, or even import it from other countries.
That is the problem, full stop. The supply of labor goes up, and the prevailing wage goes down. It's masked by inflation, but it's not a living wage anymore.
This is the reason single income families no longer exist outside of c-execs, doctors and lawyers, and even dual income families can't afford to have kids.
Famous_Owl_840 | 4 hours ago
Yes, and if you dare be against legal or illegal immigration on Reddit, you are LITERALLY Hitler.
Democrats and unions were against immigrant labor because it undercut wages. Now that private unions are basically broken and public unions have no fear of wages lowered due to foreign slave labor, immigration is good (for their votes).
devliegende | 2 hours ago
Legal or illegal immigrants are people with hopes and aspirations just like you. If you're against them having the opportunity to live the same dream you want to live, what does it make you?
Perhaps not Hitler, but for sure somewhere on that spectrum.
Coolhandluke080 | 3 hours ago
Market? I thought we replaced that with a casino?
Busterlimes | 2 hours ago
Well thats what happens when you allow capitalists to consolidate every supply chain into their own hands.
Octavya360 | 2 hours ago
I’m one of them. I got help from my parents. Tho to make a long story short I had a home I bought with my own savings and did have that to sell. But they helped me out. I never asked, they offered.
TheGreatDay | 6 hours ago
2 of my cousins, both college educated and employed in their fields that require a degree (and these are not useless degrees. Engineering and Speech Therapy), just moved back home. It is entirely too expensive out there. Something must change.
CassadagaValley | 2 hours ago
> Something must change.
More $1700/month luxury studio apartments it is.
Kind-Comparison2371 | 3 minutes ago
$1700 i wish, $2600-$3200 for a 1br in my state.
jack3moto | 4 hours ago
anecdotal experience for your specific situation. I went to Purdue, most of my friends are all engineers, all are making $200k+ in their 30's. Friends in california that I grew up with that are in engineering are also all making $200k+. If you're an engineer and not making a livable wage that's on you, not the system.
Euphoric911 | 4 hours ago
Well if my coworkers are anything to go by, you're better off hiring a monkey than a fresh engineer grad
Skittlepyscho | 4 hours ago
That's nice! Where do they live?
deerfawns | 6 hours ago
Well....yeah. Where I live in FL it's all either massive, overpriced houses, or "luxury apartments" which have insane rent and are really pretty shitty with a new coat of paint. True starter homes, or smaller homes in general, do not exist outside of 55+ communities
Affectionate-Panic-1 | 4 hours ago
In many places we've basically banned starter homes via zoning by having large min lot sizes and making multi family buildings illegal.
m77je | 2 hours ago
That's right. Almost nowhere in America is zoned for affordable housing.
Most of the traditional housing types humans have used for 1000s of years are illegal now. Why is that?
Affectionate-Panic-1 | 2 hours ago
We give too much local control that listens too much to loud minorities.
ThroatGoatK1RKKK | 3 hours ago
They call it a luxury because its luxurious to have a roof over your head and living in a 100 year old building that has the same sign outfront it's always had, just now with Luxury stapled to it like a cow turd with a flower on it. And don't forget the Landlord Cumshot White paint special. One of my apartments they had painted over a metal sink with it. They now charge over 1500 for the same place when I used to pay 650 before 2020.
deerfawns | 3 hours ago
Your account pfp and cover photo are an absolutely incredible combo
ThroatGoatK1RKKK | 3 hours ago
Memes are all we have left. I fear one day we will be forced to pay subscriptions to lol.
deerfawns | 3 hours ago
And your name too. I love seeing a bunch of stupid memes abt political stuff on serious subs...every jd vance variation makes my day a little brighter...
anonymousasu | 6 hours ago
Buying a house seems like a gamble. I’m renting a room from a dude and I think he’s going to foreclose. He was gainfully employed, lost his job, reduced hours at his new job, and now he rents out every single room to afford the 2700 dollar mortgage. Pushing 50 years old with a revolving door of gross roommates. He just told me he can’t afford the energy bill that keeps going up.
anonymousasu | 6 hours ago
Forgot to add, it’s 2700 bucks a month to live in a town that’s a dump, and the house needs a ton of work!
MajesticBread9147 | 5 hours ago
2700 for an entire house isn't bad at all. I pay more than that for the 1.5 bedroom ground floor apartment that I rent an hour outside of the city and split with a roommate.
anonymousasu | 5 hours ago
It is if you’re living in an impoverished town making 60k a year.
Elxie3 | 5 hours ago
You're paying more 2700 to SPLIT a ground floor 1.5 bedroom apartment and hour outside the city?? You are getting taken for a ride, that would be ridiculous in LA. It would be ridiculous in New York!
MajesticBread9147 | 5 hours ago
No, the total is over $2800
Jsaun906 | 3 hours ago
So your roommate pays $100 and you pay $2700?
AdNo2342 | 6 hours ago
I thought this headline that is about me is bad but now I'm realizing this is my nightmare
nokei | 4 hours ago
Feel like being able to afford solar panels now while they are cheap could save some people a lot of money in the future if AI data centers actually make it and increase everyones power pills even more.
HumorAccomplished611 | 5 hours ago
Ummm how is the energy bill the problem when the mortgage is 2700.
its like people buying 80K trucks and complaining about 4$ gas.
I imagine rooms are at least 900 a room. So the guy only needs to work for 900$ish a month which is pretty easily done even on a min wage job.
anonymousasu | 4 hours ago
He’s not wise with his money that’s for sure, and he didn’t do enough research before buying a house in an economically depressed area. His fault for sure, a mistake he’s going to pay for a long time. Can’t afford to sell, can’t afford to leave.
Affectionate-Panic-1 | 7 hours ago
It's trending up which is a bad trend, but I'm not sure it would be a record if you go back far enough. Multi generational households used to be pretty common before the post WW2 boom.
roodammy44 | 6 hours ago
It’s been part of English (and therefore US) culture to move out early for at least 500 years. It’s not quite as prevalent in other cultures like Italy. So it very well might be a record. It would be interesting to see the numbers.
Slumunistmanifisto | 7 hours ago
Yeah...glad we gave everything we built since than to billionaires and pedophiles.
Momoselfie | 6 hours ago
Billionaire pedophiles
lordofboofin | 6 hours ago
When you say “before the post ww2 boom.”
Please be sure to represent the horrendous depression, and extreme poverty driven by capitalist robber barons.
Socialism, ww2, and the destruction of the competition saved the US.
The idea that anything pre ww2 should be used as a guide for normality is repulsive.
Affectionate-Panic-1 | 5 hours ago
Even before the great depression multi generational households were more common. You had more people working in agriculture and living on the same family farm.
Snoo_81545 | 5 hours ago
Funny enough I was just rereading The Grapes of Wrath and mentioned to someone at a dinner how the way Rose of Sharon planning to leave the Joad household once they settled in California was treated with such shock really put the way in which things changed in the last 100 years into perspective.
It's a pretty interesting read in general now that I'm pushing 40 and have a lot more context for the world than I did when I struggled through it in high school.
They even touched a little bit on how the cotton boom which ultimately lead to the dust bowl was accelerated by WWI as cotton was used for both uniforms as well as explosives. I believe it was mentioned that the farmers wanted to rotate crops but were forced to grow cotton, although it was earlier in the book so my memory is fuzzy.
There were strong movements opposing all of this exploitation back then but then nationalism during WWII redirected a lot of that energy. I think Woody Guthrie is an interesting example there, a lot of his early songs were very critical of the powerful forces in America, and the government itself, but many of his songs morphed over time (like the missing verse in This Land is Your Land) and he himself used his music to the benefit of the US government during the war.
JoeTiccalo | 5 hours ago
That’s because they were still recovering from the Great Depression in 1929. I grew up with a father that bought his first house while working at a Burger Chef. I knew a guy who worked the counter at a bowling alley that had a house. It was so much easier back in the 70s and 80s.
Gamer_Grease | 6 hours ago
This post in general will spark a lot of fighting and complaining, but this is a good and neutral lens to look at the issue through. Whether or not a reversion to pre-GI bill, pre-baby boomer standard of living is a good thing is up to the beholder.
Giraff3 | 5 hours ago
The median first homebuyer age is higher than ever, it’s like 37. This is simply a logical extension of that and rising costs for people. Moreover, by living at home, you can save money to afford a house and save on other expenses. I would also imagine there is a cultural component because in certain cultures it’s more common for people to stay at home and live with their parents to take care of them.
ICLazeru | 5 hours ago
National median home price is just over 400K apparently.
A 10% down payment being about 40K then, so even if you can save 8K a year, which is a big if, then it still takes 5 years of saving to get that down-payment. Figure you come out of college at 22, that means you aren't home buying until around 27 at the earliest. And if you can't save 8k a year, it's going to take even longer.
Also consider that the prices of homes rise rapidly. So in the 5 years you were saving, the prices of the homes might go up 30-50%. So after 5 years of saving for the down payment, you're probably still another 3 years away. Actually, when we consider the rate of price increase, if you can't save at LEAST that 8K every year, you're just never going to make it.
This pushes your age to 30 before you START to buy that median home. And if you have to tap your savings for any reason, you're probably adding another year to that at a miminum.
Considering this, yes, it is not surprising that a record number of under 35s are living at home. For most, it's the only chance they have at saving up for that home downpayment.
philphil126 | 4 hours ago
It is even more when you add in yearly taxes and utilities, which depending on your area, could shift the mortgage into being unaffordable or being house poor.
getmeoutoftax | 4 hours ago
I’m one of them. It’s not ideal but it’s probably the smartest choice if you’re already single and plan on staying that way, so long as you contribute/earn your keep. AI agents will replace the vast majority of white collar jobs in a few years. I’d rather keep saving and investing than rent (at market prices) or buy a house.
MathematicianAfter57 | 5 hours ago
Who treats it like an accomplishment? It’s a savvy means of ensuring for most people. But also multi gen homes have been the way of living for most of human history.
empress_tesla | 4 hours ago
Modern living has afforded people the opportunity to get away from toxic relatives. Multi generational housing isn’t necessarily the best option for a lot of people.
MathematicianAfter57 | 4 hours ago
I did not say it was superior just that its very common. Also meant to respond to another comment but it posted as a new one, oh well
stfsu | 5 hours ago
I make median salary for my area and would be stupid to move out, it's insanely expensive, even with me paying all of the bills at home, it's still cheaper than moving out and I'm able to sock away money in my 401k
cyxrus | 5 hours ago
How old are you?
stfsu | 5 hours ago
31
cyxrus | 5 hours ago
That’s too old my man
stfsu | 5 hours ago
You do you, I'm not gonna light $2300+ a month on fire for a studio in my area. And that's not including utilities.
cyxrus | 5 hours ago
Good thing you’ve got mommy and daddy to support. Guessing you don’t plan on having kids either?
stfsu | 4 hours ago
Probably not? I'm gay so that's not something I consider, especially living at home. And to be clear, even though I'm living at home, I pay for everything now (except groceries). My parents would need to rent out the other rooms to stay in the house if I left because social security would barely cover the bills.
Starseed-111 | 3 hours ago
I’ve made a similar choice - have personally never wanted kids, why not save the money? The user above is bitter af.
Starseed-111 | 3 hours ago
You sound pretty bitter. Live and let live.
btoned | 2 hours ago
Who the fuck cares regardless?
btoned | 2 hours ago
Also mommy and daddy lol. Whether people are staying at home OR buying a house...who the fuck do you think they're getting help from?
The down payment? Child care? Labor costs?
Yea mommy and daddy are helping EVERYONE.
cyxrus | 2 hours ago
Most people do not get down payment assistance from their parents lmao be so for real
btoned | 2 hours ago
What the fuck planet are you living on?
cyxrus | 2 hours ago
A different one from you clearly. Down payment help from parents is not typical
mofmmc | 3 hours ago
I enjoyed the few years living with my parents after college. Our relationship developed more into a friendship. We had coffee in the morning together before work. I contributed to their bills and home repairs. I paid off student loans in a reasonable time then put away a significant sum for a down payment on a house I bought before 30 with my partner, who had the same experience living home. This financial head start has really helped us navigate unexpected expenditures years later and afford our kids more easily. I will never regret that extra time spent with my parents, siblings and dogs.
nicetriangle | 4 hours ago
It's indicative of a bad economic situation for sure, but on the other hand it's probably a practice society would benefit from returning to if we could get over ourselves for a moment. Multi-generational households used to be a lot more common throughout history.
It makes a ton of financial sense, it's more environmentally sound, it would help alleviate the housing crunch, and one could argue that the level of separation many of us have from our families these days has been bad for us on the whole.
Food for thought anyway.
AttonJRand | 2 hours ago
Its been years since my dad and step mom kicked me out at 18, but the years of gaslighting and bullying about how horrible of a person I was for being unhappy about being homeless really fucked with me and are hard to get over.
Like I see endless articles like this that prove they were wrong. But even at the time I saw how literally every single classmate of mine was being supported through and after college.
Its so hard to get over that kind of mind fuck, being abused and gaslit, and your parents friends siding with them, even a councilor at some crisis mental health place gave me a huge attitude for not wanting to be homeless and thinking my family should help me. Really is enough to make you doubt your sanity. I looked up the reviews for the mental health center after, and that lady apparently had a habit of bullying people at their most vulnerable, there are so many bad people in the world, and they mostly go after the vulnerable, and lucky normal people just wont believe you how bad it is, just world fallacy I guess.
1994Random | 5 hours ago
The USA is getting cheap labor for caretaking for the most vulnerable while hoping adults don’t kill each other OR maybe do kill each other literally or figuratively.
Whocares7x | 4 hours ago
The average age of how owner was mid late 20s.
In the last 10 years its fone up to 30. 35, 37
They goalpost keeps moving and i dont see why that would chabge
First home owners are not gonna be a thing. We will eat the bugs, sleep in the pod, own nothing and be happy (or be sent to happy camps for reevaluation
Fit-Bus2025 | 2 hours ago
I think this is going according to plan for the right. They want you to take care of mom and dad so they no longer have to payout ss and medical.
javascript | 7 hours ago
As the population gets higher globally, and in the US, the land which can be usefully converted to housing becomes more scarce. A commute to work can only be so far. I suspect this is but one example of a broader trend towards more dense living situations.
Not my cup of tea, personally. I'm much happier living on a farm. But I also know I'm not the norm in many ways haha
Open_Pollution_8038 | 6 hours ago
There’s no shortage of land in America.
The problem is unskilled labor’s buying power has diminished so much that they can’t afford to pay trade workers to build them a house.
javascript | 6 hours ago
Land in close proximity to demand for labor is a travel time limitation. It's not a claim about the availability of unused land.
lolexecs | 6 hours ago
Worth pointing out that countries the world over have solved this problem with mass transit.
Perhaps the gold standard is Tokyo.
https://youtu.be/FFpG3yf3Rxk?si=J4DqVr9VWmKkgcdU
And, I might add, it's also a delightful example of private-public partnerships.
javascript | 6 hours ago
Public transit also helps by reducing travel times!
ProperLettuce_79 | 4 hours ago
And yet depopulation continues in japan’s rural areas because young people want to move closer to Tokyo and other major cities. Immigration would help, but it would be a bandaid for a country that’s all about social harmony and rules.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 6 hours ago
There’s no shortage of half million dollar homes.
EnjoysYelling | 6 hours ago
A shortage of land within commute distance to city center is *why* these homes are half a million dollars.
Your statement is proof that there is a shortage. Prices go up when there’s a shortage.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 6 hours ago
False you can’t build for cheaper that’s why they’re half a million.
The 1/8 acre it sits on isn’t most of the expense.
OuttaT0rtillas | 6 hours ago
There is not a shortage of land in most American cities, we have massive surface parking lots, oversized freeway interchanges that are only that size because they were designed to displace communities, and Levitt-style communties that could easily fit 4 starter homes. The only shortage is of good policy and zoning laws.
EnjoysYelling | 5 hours ago
I agree that zoning is a huge part of the issue, but the shortage isn’t just of land in general but of land in proximity to places that jobs have centralized
CRoss1999 | 6 hours ago
There’s no shortage of land, you could triple our population and still be lower density than France a place known for its large rural areas. The issue is restructure zoning and regulation making it too difficult to build housing despite higher wages
javascript | 6 hours ago
Unused land is not the limiting factor. It's travel time to demand for labor.
artpost555 | 6 hours ago
Where I am it's not even much cheaper to live out in the country, you def get more for your money but the base cost of having a place at all remains high.
justin107d | 6 hours ago
Interesting take. I'm curious how the New Deal or Eisenhower's Highway Act affected home/apartment prices now.
Living with your parents is different than moving to the apartment a floor up. I don't think this is a good trend.
javascript | 6 hours ago
Well if we had built apartment buildings, moving to a new unit would be an option. We didn't. We built single family homes. So it makes sense that people would continue living together in larger numbers.
alienhomemovies | 2 hours ago
Older people holding homes hoping they can sell them as their retirement nest egg are driving this issue but they are stuck in their homes because of poor financing conditions and not being able to live with downgrading their housing while likely paying rent for a property they don’t think is worth it. So they wait and then die in their oversized houses.
Serious-Conversation | 6 hours ago
I think people are overlooking a few things.
Yes - housing prices and rates are high. But so are a lot of Gen Z incomes.
My girlfriend's son is 26. Makes around $120k a year as a lineman. Most of her kids' friends are blue collar. This is in NC, so medium COL.
Instead of putting his money toward housing, it's going toward diesel trucks and other trappings of redneck life.
Almost all of them are in their 20s and some combination of plumbers, electricians, linemen, a detailing shop owner, etc. They're are all basically right near or above six figures.
The girls are mostly in medical or pink collar stuff. They don't make as much.
I graduated college in 2010 as a finance major and worked in IT in finance adjacent roles for twelve years. I crossed $100k one year, but that was with some COVID-era retention payments that wouldn't apply today. I make $85k now.
Almost none of their friends live on their own. They have it too easy at home.
sgtbackpain03 | 6 hours ago
> Almost all of them are in their 20s and some combination of plumbers, electricians, linemen, a detailing shop owner, etc. They're are all basically right near or above six figures.
Sounds like your experience is with a very niche sector of people in that age range, and isn't applicable to the majority of GenZ.
Whocares7x | 3 hours ago
I don't know anybody where I live in LA that's just pumping out vehicles and upgrade their lifestyle the ones that are doing that are doing it artificially with credit cards and they are getting repo or living at home with over $1000 payments on cars and that's the only expense they don't have kids
sgtbackpain03 | 2 hours ago
Uh, k, cool story?
Whocares7x | 2 hours ago
Im just supporting ur comment that the others poster is niche, as experiences may vary
sgtbackpain03 | an hour ago
Got it. I had trouble making sense of what you wrote, and literally didn't know what point you were making lol; was like, okay... Well uh, cool. No offense, I'm probably just a bit too tired.
Serious-Conversation | 2 hours ago
I can't speak to what things are like in other areas.
Rural, blue collar people, who mostly don't have any university education or two-year degrees at best, are going to be a totally different reference point than Gen Z kids who went to Stanford or MIT and are working at frontier AI labs or something.
The point being is that blue collar people seem to be doing very well. RNs and any sort of healthcare people are doing well. White collar salaries and job availability are in the toilet in my neck of the woods.
sgtbackpain03 | 2 hours ago
Skilled trades have paid well since they adopted unions, what, 50 ish ish years ago? RNs are NOT doing well from my anecdata. I'm friends with 6 of them kind of spread out over the country, and it's a bad time to be a nurse. Hell, head over to r/nurses and you'll see a lot there.
Just saying, you described a very specific demographic, then applied your observations to 50 million people.
Regardless, this is probably a pointless discussion, apologies for chiming in.