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874 points by Deep-Owl-1890 9 hours ago on reddit | 106 comments

lighthandstoo | 9 hours ago

This could be why exercise works so effectively for depression!

BabyLegsOShanahan | 9 hours ago

It's just so hard to start.

purple-pifflord | 8 hours ago

You have to accept that the first 10 minutes are going to be complete and utter dogshit, then you start to find a rhythm.

I literally call it the "Excruciating 10 minutes"

wetmarmoset | 7 hours ago

Almost every day too! The bright side is that if you come into it knowing to expect 10 minutes of pain, you know you only have to get through 10 minutes before it pays off and from there it’s fun

IndistinctWarbling | 8 hours ago

Excruciating 10 hours

Xillyfos | 6 hours ago

That's a really long run. Maybe run 2 km instead of 100 km?

IndistinctWarbling | 4 hours ago

Then it will still be excruciating the whole time

Kahnza | 7 hours ago

I find this applies to cycling too. Gotta start out taking it easy to let your body warm up, aka getting the blood flowing. After that it's beautiful if you are properly hydrated and have eaten very recently. And take snacks and water with on the ride!

DrunkUranus | 5 hours ago

There is a subset of people who do not adjust to exercise and for whom things like the "runner's high" and so on are a myth. It's not a lot of people, but it's a real thing. Some of us get to experience the dogshit feelings the whole time

DreadfulDuder | 5 hours ago

That's me. I was running 5 miles a day for 10 months or so, and never felt a runner's high...

ShimmiShimmiYah | 4 hours ago

Do you have a study I could read on this?

Rhupart | 6 hours ago

You have depression and first 10 minutes of excercise suck? Hmm. If the depression is severe, it will suck for a very long time. You will need something else to support it. Milder depression is different, its possible sometimes to cure it just by excersising more.

ShimmiShimmiYah | 4 hours ago

Do you have a study that I could read about this?

GlitterGrain | 5 hours ago

Or if exercise is jogging a mile, it's over in 10 minutes!

GodsBackHair | 4 hours ago

I don’t know why, but this has struck a chord with me and makes me more wanting to try to get into exercising everyday. Seeing that other people also see it as ‘oh god this is just gonna be awful’ makes it easier to realize that not everyone is enjoying every moment of it

JamesLahey08 | 7 hours ago

Ok

ogsimpson9876 | 8 hours ago

Maybe try just doing 30 seconds of it on the first day.

LethalBacon | 8 hours ago

This is essentially my secret when I need to build the habit back up. I usually start with 5 minutes, or maybe 2 if I really have no motivation. Jog in place for 5 min, do some body weight squats, jumprope, etc etc. Then, usually within a few weeks, I am moving up to legit exercises.

I feel like there's always been this all or nothing mindset for exercise/working out, but I usually approach it as "anything is better than nothing". Get used to starting a workout and being consistent, worry about volume/programming later.

spaghetti_hitchens2 | 8 hours ago

I am a simple man. I see Dr Strangelove and I upvote.

loozerr | 8 hours ago

I think there's a very pace / result oriented view on exercise. When in reality walking and later down the line jogging is king. What people call zone 1 / area where you can just keep taking it breathing through your nose. That's where the health benefits are.

You don't need to set your goals high - put on a comfy pair of shoes and walk around.

2hands_bowler | 7 hours ago

Here's what got me over the hump:

I read somewhere that humans are large mammals, and we are pre-programmed with a million years of evolution telling us to conserve energy, eat, and rest.

Now when I don't want to exercise I think: That's just my large-mammal brain telling me to conserve energy.

It works for me...

squeezemachine | 6 hours ago

This is a really elegant thought pattern to help override the lazies.

Helldiver_of_Mars | 7 hours ago

That's just telling us why and it's kind of something we all know. Knowing doesn't really do anything. That's like a smoker knowing their lungs are rotting and they're getting cancer....doesn't work.

bannana | 7 hours ago

walking is exercise, I started walking in my neighborhood so all I need to do is change shoes and walk out the door so there are far fewer impediments to starting. Initially, I just did half my street - down and back then increased over several months to 2mi. summer when it's hot I got after sunset so it's cooler.

minuteman_d | 6 hours ago

Walking is so clutch. There are days when I really don't feel like lifting or going for a run, but dang it, I can usually get myself to put on my shoes and go for a walk. Put on some music I like or an interesting podcast and pretty soon, it'll be a couple miles.

csutton610 | 8 hours ago

Baby steps is key. Even walk up and down a flight of stairs for 15 minutes, three times a week is a plus and will help motivate you to do more

someoneelse0826 | 6 hours ago

Some people here have clearly never had depression

Proper-Marsupial-786 | 6 hours ago

People are saying baby steps but that’s not for everyone. I tried baby steps for years and it never stuck. What worked for me was making a plan ahead of time for when I had an opening. For whatever reason one day the sun was shining in a specific way and I had a temporary reprieve where I had just enough willpower to say fuck it and execute on the plan.

The plan for me was to drop everything and just find a small cheap Airbnb cabin in the woods and just grab my keys and a few outfits and just go. From there I just focused on being outside. No phone outside of emergencies. Not hiking or shit like that, just being outside and allowing myself to be bored. Then out of boredom I’d walk and just find shit to do. No expectations or rules or anything. If I wanted to sit and do nothing for 4 hours totally fine just do it outside. I did that for a whole weekend. It didn’t cure me obviously, but normally I’d be at a -8, the random sunny day brought me to a -5, and then the woods brought me to a -2. Each step you “unlock” more willpower which you parlay into the next bet.

For me that next bet was calling my brother and explaining what I was doing and that I needed his help with the next step. He then helped me basically gut out my entire depressing ass apartment and clean it up real nice. You do not realize how much your environment triggers you back into old habits. So you NEED to change your environment to continue on.

It sounds like a long shot but sometimes you need a few tries. Not the end of the world. Eventually one of them hits and you reach escape velocity. Obviously having a little money helps too, and having a support system.

Jealentuss | 5 hours ago

I have a hard time starting but I also have a hard time continuing. I also have a hard time keeping up with it for a prolonged period of time.

med_belguesmi69 | 5 hours ago

yeah, i don't wanna it sound easy but literally just start, it took me years to just start, but once i did, I pretty much can't live without it. It's become like an addiction or a necessity. just take it seriously and know what to do at first so that you continue

BillieRubenCamGirl | 7 hours ago

I’ve never found this works for me.

Does this actually work for people?

McGrim_ | 6 hours ago

It depends, i.e. if you are in a very bad shape it will take a while to get into baseline shape from which exercise brings mostly good physical feeling and improved mental. I started in a pretty below average physical form so it took me multiple months until I wasn't dying after exercise but once I've gotten past that the positive effects on my mental health were very significant.

BillieRubenCamGirl | 6 hours ago

Even when I was young and healthy (late teens early 20s, healthy weight) exercise never made a lick of difference.

I actually thought my depression was untreatable and was going to top myself because I figured I had a social life and exercised and ate well, and that was the advice everyone gave for it, and it wasn’t working so I must be incurable.

McGrim_ | 6 hours ago

Yeah, I believe you. Definitely not saying it helps everyone equally. Stay strong! *hugs*

podrikpayn | 7 hours ago

Me neither, although it does work to prevent relapse, I compare it to a cold, working out helps preventing it, but once you have it, it's not going to do much

Kahnza | 6 hours ago

I find very much that it helps. You just have to find what is fun for you. I find I like riding a bicycle.

Once you get dialed in on a hobby/sport, you understand a lot more and can adjust to make things better for yourself. During the summer I get at least 20 minutes of cardio on all but maybe 1 or 2 days a month. Daily cardio of just a bit can make a huge difference in how you feel. You just have to stick with it at first. It can take a bit before it starts to feel great!

Barcode_Griller | 5 hours ago

Yes, I was lazy my whole adolescent and adult life and was horrifically depressed, eventually fell into alcoholism. I hit a rock bottom and got sober, but still felt immensely depressed and turned to exercise (as many people in recovery do). Absolutely changed my whole life. Complete 180, filled the whole in my heart better than anything else ever has.

ShimmiShimmiYah | 4 hours ago

Yes

cheezbargar | 7 hours ago

It really doesn’t though

tsoneyson | 7 hours ago

It really does though. The evidence is overwhelming.

cheezbargar | 6 hours ago

Ok well I wish I experienced this then

ishka_uisce | 5 hours ago

It does for some people and not for everyone. Like most treatments.

Dirtgrain | 6 hours ago

For some maybe--but there are a number of factors long know to be a part of depression, so I don't think blood flow erases them as factors just yet--need more research.

ShimmiShimmiYah | 4 hours ago

So you just... aren't physically active?

cheezbargar | 3 hours ago

Lmao. I have an active job, walk my dogs every day and lift weights 3x a week.

ShimmiShimmiYah | an hour ago

That's a shame you aren't happier then.

Weights don't do much for me on the feel good front but cardio definitely does, maybe give that a shot?

RockieK | 7 hours ago

My depressive brother pines for the days he used to work out. Now he barely leaves his apt and just cannot get himself to go to the gym. Makes me the sad.

Xillyfos | 6 hours ago

Would he go for a walk if you joined him? Sometimes doing it with others gives that extra energy needed.

Ok-Spinach-6529 | 5 hours ago

Fr

awFuqqq | 5 hours ago

It can help but if it was truly the answer there would be no depressed athletes or bodybuilders.

Helldiver_of_Mars | 5 hours ago

After reading it this really should be removed. I guess this sub isn't about real science or accuracy. This is one specific late life (old age) depression not all forms. Not only that but there is contradicting data.

It also doesn't establish if it's the cause or the consequence.

This subs really bad for science and pushes mostly conspiracy and weak science I've noticed. Like I don't think I've seen one correct ever and the problem is the people occupying this sub don't have one iota of a science orient inquisitive bone. The link alone suggests pseudo sceince.

This is the facebook of science sub basically. It has no moderation from anyone with any scientific background so pushes "health theories" (conspiracies) often for profit I've noticed. So a motive based theory often by the user posting.

I mean the link doesn't even work any more because it's not reputable but the mods do not block fringe theory websites and blogs.

I've not seen one correct article in this sub and nor one person pushes back on the bad science.

Even worse is the "research" is marketing for SPECT scans. So it has two biases to it.

Appropriate_Sir2020 | 8 hours ago

Endorphins post exercise only lasts for about an hour.

Brrdock | 8 hours ago

Yeah endorphins are far from the only or most notable benefit of exercise

Colddigger | 8 hours ago

What the fuck is that website

EquivalentTangerine | 7 hours ago

A site to scrape all your cookies

Eat--The--Rich-- | 8 hours ago

So if I put a rubber band around my neck to hold it all up in there that should solve the depression right

Rustycake | 8 hours ago

One way or the other ... yes

refusemouth | 7 hours ago

Just stand on your head or hang upside-down on one of those inversion tables for 5 minutes every hour. Depression solved.

Eat--The--Rich-- | 6 hours ago

Can't wait to explain to my boss that my new pull up bar that I occasionally hang on my knees from is therapeutic lol

IAmSpinda | 7 hours ago

Do not kermit sewer slide

Satanic_Earmuff | 6 hours ago

Or a rope?

IFartOnCats4Fun | 7 hours ago

So a cock ring for your other head? I think you might be onto something. 🧐

thejaytheory | 5 hours ago

Like CBT

Explicit_Tech | 7 hours ago

I workout all the time and I'm still depressed

DutifulWarder | 7 hours ago

If you want the actual JAMA source instead of that cancerous website: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2832270

Nellasofdoriath | 7 hours ago

Anythhing but adress workplace stress, alienation, and adverse life experiences.

SwampFungalPod_ | 5 hours ago

Both things can be true. There's no reason to ignore potential physiological connections while also working on your lifestyle and psychology.

Nellasofdoriath | 4 hours ago

Agreed. Both would be good.

bigfatgooneybird | 4 hours ago

You can address those issues alot easier if you just exercise a bit to alleviate depression.

Nellasofdoriath | 4 hours ago

Personally I get paid to do hard labor 10 hours a week but thanks for your concern.

bigfatgooneybird | 2 hours ago

Im sorry the world is against you. You can do it. 💪

Nellasofdoriath | 2 hours ago

I...am already.

I also do yoga.

bigfatgooneybird | 2 hours ago

Cool I like to ride bikes

sir_duckingtale | 7 hours ago

It FEELS like the one theory linking it to depleted Mitochondria

It literally feels like like your powerhouses of the cell running out of steam ALL through the body

Never was a fan of the chemical imbalance theory

It doesn’t feel like in your head

It feels like all over the body inside your very cells.

omegafixedpoint | 6 hours ago

youtubehtumbgrabber is my favorite publication in medicine

[OP] Deep-Owl-1890 | 9 hours ago

The functional-over-structural finding is what makes this interesting, they're not saying depressed brains look different, they're saying they behave differently, with weaker blood flow and coordination between regions being 2-3x stronger signals than any structural differences. That's a pretty different diagnostic target than "scan for damage," it's more like watching activity patterns in real time.

Worth flagging though: this builds on the 2022 serotonin review, which showed no consistent evidence for the old chemical imbalance theory, but that doesn't mean SSRIs don't help people, they clearly do for a lot of people, just probably not through the mechanism most of us were taught in school. Interesting shift is that this Regional Vulnerability Index framing could eventually help match people to the right treatment based on which brain regions are actually underperforming, instead of the current trial-and-error approach to medication.

joshocar | 8 hours ago

My wife is a neurologist and often talks about how little we understand about the brain. This research is another good example.

CalligrapherPlane731 | 9 hours ago

We can do our own AI summary of the article, thanks

LazerStallion | 4 hours ago

What makes you say it's AI?

CalligrapherPlane731 | 4 hours ago

I do a lot of work with Claude. I recognize the dialect

Tijenater | 4 hours ago

Yeah the “worth flagging though:” reads as Claude to me too

94746382926 | 8 hours ago

I'll ask Claude if I want, don't need you to do it for me and pretend it was your own writing.

costoaway1 | 9 hours ago

AI slop.

Right_Ear_2230 | 8 hours ago

a broken clock is right twice a day (this time its probably not)

KlM-J0NG-UN | 7 hours ago

The same doctors who were 100% sure it was a chemical imbalance, so desperately trying to find another single cause for depression when in reality depression is 10 different things put under one hat

United-Vermicelli-92 | 6 hours ago

If I ever feel down I get my ass up! It v hard sometimes like during grief or loss, but give yourself grace and get up when you can. Depression is no joke, big hugs to all those who might be struggling, exercise and mushroom therapy worked wonders after my mom passes and I was in a hole.

CharlieKateCharms | 6 hours ago

What is this BS link?

Helldiver_of_Mars | 5 hours ago

Why does this subreddit have the most unscientific and most suspicious links of all the science subs?

After reading it this really should be removed. I guess this sub isn't about real science or accuracy. This is one specific late life depression not all forms. Not only that but there is contradicting data.

It also doesn't establish if it's the cause or the consequence.

This is marketing for SPECT scans too. It's an ad.

ButterscotchTall4836 | 7 hours ago

I think this is a worthy concept, but then why do so many medications that work on Seratonin and other neurotransmitters work so well in efficacy?

AdditionalTwo0 | 6 hours ago

The short answer is: nobody really knows. Lots of theories from improving neuroplasticity, enhancing brain Energy metabolism to antiinflammatory effects.

ishka_uisce | 5 hours ago

They don't? SSRIs barely outperform placebo.

SecretGardenSpider | 5 hours ago

They do for severe depression.

ishka_uisce | 5 hours ago

Yes, just about. They don't at all for minor or moderate. And tbh I'd put fairly good money for their mild superiority over placebo in severe groups having some confounding factors in the mix too.

SloppySauce0 | 6 hours ago

Both work to enable plasticity

monetarydread | 6 hours ago

Makes sense. Both MAOI's and Tricyclics impact CBF (cerebral blood flow). MAOI'S increase CBF and Tricyclics reduce CBF.

Interestingly, SSRI's tend to not change CBF much and when they do it's localized  to areas like the right Insula.

AdditionalTwo0 | 6 hours ago

Isn't bloodflow just used as a proxy for activity in functional MRI? So they basically showed or rather confirmed that in depression some brain regions and functional networks are underactive and not that the brain is not getting enough blood flow. At least thats kind of how i understand those findings.

CK_CoffeeCat | 5 hours ago

Hunh. HUNH.

Money_Bug_9423 | 5 hours ago

How does low blood pressure play into it?

sus_round_letter | 5 hours ago

More headstands for the depressed? /s

Derrickmb | 7 hours ago

Low iron intake

TrevorBo | 6 hours ago

Yeah definitely not the continuous external negative stimuli. No way.