“This makes it not really usable as a daily driver, but keeps it in this beautiful sweet spot where it has a shocking number of commercial and agricultural uses.”
Farmers and universities have been picking up kei trucks for the last few years for things like groundskeeping work. Being able to sell a brand-new vehicle with parts availability to these customers is what Toyota is trying to capitalize on
I have a few friends who've purchased older kei trucks. One for use on his property, the other got his tagged in NC (IIRC, it was NC). The local bicycle shop also has a kei van as their "shop truck" (another used one imported from Japan). The imports will go faster than 25mph, but they are terrible on the highway. The 25mph is an artificial limit to meet LSV regulations.
All that said, $25k isn't cheap when you can get a basic Polaris SXS for $15k. It might not be street legal in many states, but much of the usage is going to be on private property.
I'm in Western North Carolina(Asheville) and there are an actual number of kei trucks here. Not every other vehicle common but enough to see maybe 5-10 every day.
In rural Iowa I saw a ton of those little "UTV", gators, or whatever various brands call them which are effectively beefed up golf carts being driven around town. Trucks have become so enormous and expensive that these somewhat street legal vehicles are taking over for people who just need to go here and there.
A friend with a WFH tech job, who lives on his own land (with family and various critters), bought one a few years ago for hauling materials and supplies around his property.
Fleets, as evidenced by Toyota/Scion saying they will exclusively sell to fleet purchasers. My local university, for an example, had 20 or so Daihatsu Hijets when I went to school there, which have given way to far more expensive Ford Bronco Sports and similar. I assume the lack of parts supply and repairability of the Hijets attrited them away. Domestically producing them to keep the chicken tax/tariffs at bay and having dealer service at the local Toyota dealership will make these appealing again in those markets.
LSV's like this are extremely popular in the retirement home communities like The Villages in Florida. They're allowed on the golf cart paths, and also on a few roads where golf carts aren't allowed.
I like the concept, I just find myself wondering if the Big 3 will pull another Chicken Tax move to protect the full-size pickup golden geese.
Toyota - and Japan in general - has a helluva trade relationship with the US, but that's effectively all Detroit knows how to beat the world at anymore and they love the margins on their truck portfolios, to the point that they considered sedans and most coupes to be too thin to warrant continued production.
"Build" is a stretch of the word for them to knock down some HiJets in Japan, ship them over, then put them back together again. Toyota's PR even says they're only adding another 50 jobs with their "expansion" to build the kei in Indiana.
600 LB weight limit including passengers, top speed of 25 mph, and right hand drive this feels specifically design to be toothless against American pickups. This is a novelty product, I saw an image of one loaded with half a dozen hay bails and I'm wondering who even needs that? This is a novelty car for vineyard owners and show pony stables. Like you'd get just as much use out of a JD Gator and they probably have worse weight distribution.
It wasn't "designed" for or against anything American. This is a purely Japanese design designed to Japanese tastes that has historically seen enough success in American markets that Toyota's market research has deemed the juice worth the squeeze to begin manufacturing them in the US to get around the Chicken Tax that previously made them prohibitively expensive and sell them to fleet purchasers. My local university had 20 or so Daihatsu Hijets running around until (I assume) parts supply dried up and they were replaced with far-more-expensive Ford Bronco Sports and similar compact crossovers.
The nice thing about a minitruck over something like a Gator is you get an interior.
I worked golf course landscaping during some summers in college and drove Gators, which did their job well. But they certainly weren't any relief from being out in the sun all day. This Scion minitruck has heat and air conditioning. And locking doors. So it'll be a respite from the outdoors, as well as a secure (well, as secure as any car) place to leave your personal items.
It’s a huge mistake to limit the speed to 25mph. When this is released in 2027, Kei trucks will be street legal in Colorado. I would have pre-ordered this without question but that speed makes it useless for basic commuting or running errands.
I think the strategy is specifically not going for customers who want it for those things. It's meant for farms and work sites not commuting or running errands
AFAICT, This truck will not be able to pass either the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) or the EPA/CARB emissions standards for high speed vehicles. The new Colorado rules for Kei vehicles does not remove those requirements because it relies on the existing exemptions available for 25+ year old vehicles.
IOW, it needs to keep the 25mph speed limiter to qualify as a low speed vehicle, even in Colorado.
EPA/CARB effectively sets a minimum size for trucks. Rather than having a small light truck that can do the job, you get a Ford F250 hauling a single bale of hay.
But rolling back or adding exemptions for small trucks is political suicide despite the clear environmental benefits.
Where I live the Ford F-250 is not used for falling a single bit of anything other than air. They are in pristine shape and look like they've never been outside the city limits nor off City roads
CARB only nudges manufacturers, but the market’s own purchase preferences are doing the big push.
Perhaps the biggest nudge is that gasoline is undertaxed. Consumers will never see a reason to stop driving a 18-25mpg truck when gas being less than $5 a gallon is considered a “high” price. The gas tax hasn’t kept up with inflation.
I don’t love the ford F-150 for being a monster truck, but consider this: with the right configuration it sears 6 adults comfortably, plus having a bed for cargo. Families legitimately replace minivans and other family vehicles with it, plus it can tow and haul being the body on frame truck that it is.
Toyota doesn't seem to be aiming for your business just yet. From their press release:
> As an intentionally low-volume, niche vehicle, the KEI-01 will initially be offered through a fleet-focused pilot program to help the company learn how it can best serve U.S. customers and use cases.
I doubt Toyota will ever produce a small, inexpensive pickup that you would actually feel comfortable driving on a freeway. It would cut into its Tacoma and Tundra sales, which have a good profit margin. At least, not without some other manufacturer taking market share with such a vehicle.
There's already a market for off road use. They are far superior to SxS UTVs that are overpriced for what they deliver. You usually get heat and air conditioning in an enclosed cab with flexible bed configurations. SxSs are glorified toys in comparison.
This is exploiting the existing LSV classification to bypass the chicken tax that limits the current market to old used imports. It will be easy enough to mod them for higher speeds on farms.
With a built in 25mph limiter, that eliminates "city" driving too unfortunately. Most roads around me are 35 mph.
There's sizeable demand for people who want to be able to do runs to the bigbox stores for garden and DIY renovation supplies and store it the rest of the time.
American here, in practice no. They are generally only the upper bound for dense neighborhood streets, throughout most other roadways you will be considered a poor driver if you go lower than the speed limit.
Where I live the major strode has a 45 mph speed limit and during most times of the day we only get to 35 mph but people make up for it by running the red light
Considered a poor driver, and you can be ticketed for impeding traffic. I'd guess you are also more likely to undergo a field sobriety test if and when that time comes.
The city of Tacoma, WA recently implemented new ALPR ticketing systems to enforce speed limits in northern Tacoma. They received so many hits, they had to build out a new system akin to a lottery for sending ticket / infraction notices.
To me, that seems like the city is entrapping its citizens to make up for a lack of revenue, when the data clearly shows the speed limit should probably be adjusted. But no, they move to develop a lottery system to send the infractions.
Speed limit cameras are highly effective at slowing cars down. They were recently removed in Ontario, and the average road speed increased substantially. The pedestrian death counts spiked in both Toronto and Ottawa this year. This is likely not a coincidence.
I often ride my ebike at 28 MPH (max legal ebike speed in US) on a street with a 25 MPH speed limit and I'll regularly get cars tailgating me honking and crossing the double line to pass.
I know two people who have been pulled over in the US for driving too slow.
If you drive significantly slower than the flow of traffic it can create a hazard for other drivers.
Generally speaking, much of driving is predicting what other drivers will do. If you behave significantly differently than other cars you do raise the chances of an accident.
Because they can't bear to make vehicles smaller. That's the real terror on American roads. Something like 60% of vehicles are huge because it makes the driver feel better. And indeed, it makes the driver safer in a collision - at the cost of making everyone else in the area less safe. Something has to be done to stop this trend first and foremost.
After that, when vehicle sizes start trending down towards reasonable, we can look at getting speeds up without reducing overall safety.
This is pretty cool. It's too bad it's just for fleets. Must be they realized how much money was going to imported Kei trucks, and that they could just... do the importing themselves, and pick up some cash. (edit: looks like they sacrificed payload for the AC/heat? only 600lbs?)
The SXS looks cool, but gearheads want a tiny Jeep replacement (which there are none of in the US), not another UTV/buggy we already have
660cc engine at ~40 horsepower is about the same as a mid-70s VW Beetle - not in cc size, but HP potential.
This little truck could do a lot more than 25 mph if it were allowed to do so. Not saying that would be safe, and I'd not want to ever put one on a busy freeway, but for getting around most urban cities in the US it's fine as-is but would be even better if the limit was ~40 mph.
It's going to go here for what, $15,000? $25,000? Better than buying a 25 yr old one for $10,000 from a used dealer lot that has no parts or real mechanic trained on them but at that price point..
I remember getting into my father in law's kei truck. He literally was given it for free by someone he knew; that is how disposable they are.
And yeah, absolutely not comfortable.
Toyota selling them for $25k is parasitism. The idea of selling a cheap truck is apparently impossible with their cost structures. (Worse, if it succeeds it will ruin the Japanese market)
The best outcome is that this is a mild success and America gets a second generation shit version for 40 or 50k that has been fattened and rendered worthless, much like the second generation XB. (Hopefully the second generation is on some slop tier SUV platform so it doesn't wreck the economics of the Japanese market.)
The headline excited me but a gas vehicle with a 25mph limit is useless to me. When is someone gonna make an EV truck with a kei-like form factor? The Slate ain't it.
For those of you clamoring for kei trucks to be street legal in the US, you really need to do some street view comparisons between Japan and the US.
US roads are built for much, much higher speeds. Kei cars purposefully give up safety with the caveat that they’re only used on low speed roadways, and Japan designs their roads with the intention of these vehicles being acceptably safe in that context.
Kei-cars are the smallest class of cars allowed on highways in Japan. Japan highway speeds are quite low at 100km/h, which is still more than twice what this car is limited to.
On intercity highways in Japan you are driving next to as large trucks as anywhere I've driven.
This product makes no sense. Who exactly are they planning to sell to? I don't think people needing a truck for work would ever use something like this over say a F150.
Liuser | an hour ago
nemomarx | an hour ago
jdlshore | an hour ago
Liuser | an hour ago
behringer | an hour ago
everdrive | an hour ago
kelp6063 | an hour ago
alistairSH | an hour ago
All that said, $25k isn't cheap when you can get a basic Polaris SXS for $15k. It might not be street legal in many states, but much of the usage is going to be on private property.
80fj0348i | 55 minutes ago
alistairSH | 42 minutes ago
DASD | 53 minutes ago
There are even a few businesses that specialize in these vehicles: https://www.marsminitrucks.com
colechristensen | 55 minutes ago
chao- | 55 minutes ago
100percentjake | 54 minutes ago
bryanlarsen | 37 minutes ago
aaronbrethorst | 31 minutes ago
quickthrowman | 13 minutes ago
The same places small golf carts, Cushman carts, or side-by-sides are being used already.
thelittlenag | an hour ago
jdc0589 | 48 minutes ago
lenerdenator | an hour ago
Toyota - and Japan in general - has a helluva trade relationship with the US, but that's effectively all Detroit knows how to beat the world at anymore and they love the margins on their truck portfolios, to the point that they considered sedans and most coupes to be too thin to warrant continued production.
tohnjitor | an hour ago
kotaKat | 11 minutes ago
That is NOT a lot of people involved.
hydrogen7800 | an hour ago
moate | an hour ago
100percentjake | 57 minutes ago
lastofthemojito | 56 minutes ago
I worked golf course landscaping during some summers in college and drove Gators, which did their job well. But they certainly weren't any relief from being out in the sun all day. This Scion minitruck has heat and air conditioning. And locking doors. So it'll be a respite from the outdoors, as well as a secure (well, as secure as any car) place to leave your personal items.
__alexander | an hour ago
TSiege | 58 minutes ago
bryanlarsen | 55 minutes ago
IOW, it needs to keep the 25mph speed limiter to qualify as a low speed vehicle, even in Colorado.
mike_d | 51 minutes ago
But rolling back or adding exemptions for small trucks is political suicide despite the clear environmental benefits.
bryanlarsen | 48 minutes ago
readthenotes1 | 44 minutes ago
ceejayoz | 37 minutes ago
Grombobulous | 41 minutes ago
CARB only nudges manufacturers, but the market’s own purchase preferences are doing the big push.
Perhaps the biggest nudge is that gasoline is undertaxed. Consumers will never see a reason to stop driving a 18-25mpg truck when gas being less than $5 a gallon is considered a “high” price. The gas tax hasn’t kept up with inflation.
I don’t love the ford F-150 for being a monster truck, but consider this: with the right configuration it sears 6 adults comfortably, plus having a bed for cargo. Families legitimately replace minivans and other family vehicles with it, plus it can tow and haul being the body on frame truck that it is.
bryanlarsen | 32 minutes ago
Grombobulous | 17 minutes ago
Either way, if the Maverick gets 37MPG already, seems like it’s not that much of an ask to get it to 67mpg.
If Slate can make a $25,000 EV truck I don’t see why Ford can’t do the same.
toast0 | 17 minutes ago
All while the Maverick has a bed that probably can't properly move a couch.
You probably can't really fit a couch on the back of a kei truck either, but it's ok because they're cute.
[1] https://www.vehiclesizes.com/compare/3771-7714/ford-maverick...
Grombobulous | 15 minutes ago
The appeal of a Maverick is that it’s a normal family vehicle that drives just like a passenger car while having a bed where you can put dirty stuff.
__alexander | 42 minutes ago
lastofthemojito | 53 minutes ago
> As an intentionally low-volume, niche vehicle, the KEI-01 will initially be offered through a fleet-focused pilot program to help the company learn how it can best serve U.S. customers and use cases.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-says-okei-to-america-int...
I do hope they're able to build on this, and maybe offer left-hand-drive and a more reasonable top speed eventually.
laughing_man | 46 minutes ago
SoftTalker | 40 minutes ago
julienb_sea | 37 minutes ago
kevin_thibedeau | 21 minutes ago
This is exploiting the existing LSV classification to bypass the chicken tax that limits the current market to old used imports. It will be easy enough to mod them for higher speeds on farms.
6DM | 58 minutes ago
There's sizeable demand for people who want to be able to do runs to the bigbox stores for garden and DIY renovation supplies and store it the rest of the time.
benfrancom | 53 minutes ago
kridsdale1 | 51 minutes ago
DoctorOW | 48 minutes ago
readthenotes1 | 46 minutes ago
rizzom5000 | 33 minutes ago
0x1ch | 24 minutes ago
To me, that seems like the city is entrapping its citizens to make up for a lack of revenue, when the data clearly shows the speed limit should probably be adjusted. But no, they move to develop a lottery system to send the infractions.
bryanlarsen | 20 minutes ago
Manuel_D | 38 minutes ago
asdff | 30 minutes ago
lakeviewterrace | 17 minutes ago
It's a work truck not a Prius with a Coexist sticker.
Dig1t | 27 minutes ago
If you drive significantly slower than the flow of traffic it can create a hazard for other drivers.
Generally speaking, much of driving is predicting what other drivers will do. If you behave significantly differently than other cars you do raise the chances of an accident.
bryanlarsen | 47 minutes ago
malfist | 22 minutes ago
bryanlarsen | 18 minutes ago
chowells | 14 minutes ago
After that, when vehicle sizes start trending down towards reasonable, we can look at getting speeds up without reducing overall safety.
JKCalhoun | 11 minutes ago
0xbadcafebee | 58 minutes ago
The SXS looks cool, but gearheads want a tiny Jeep replacement (which there are none of in the US), not another UTV/buggy we already have
erickhill | 54 minutes ago
This little truck could do a lot more than 25 mph if it were allowed to do so. Not saying that would be safe, and I'd not want to ever put one on a busy freeway, but for getting around most urban cities in the US it's fine as-is but would be even better if the limit was ~40 mph.
mike_d | 53 minutes ago
As a result we don't get "right sized" trucks like the kei or more efficient farm vehicles like the hilux.
snovymgodym | 52 minutes ago
rootsudo | 47 minutes ago
They are not fun cars, they should be cheap and disposable.
The MSRP for this in japan is less than $10,000,$6000 for the base model:
https://toyota.jp/pixistruck/
It's going to go here for what, $15,000? $25,000? Better than buying a 25 yr old one for $10,000 from a used dealer lot that has no parts or real mechanic trained on them but at that price point..
a Mavrick is better.
The amazon truck is better.
SoftTalker | 36 minutes ago
jbm | 26 minutes ago
And yeah, absolutely not comfortable.
Toyota selling them for $25k is parasitism. The idea of selling a cheap truck is apparently impossible with their cost structures. (Worse, if it succeeds it will ruin the Japanese market)
The best outcome is that this is a mild success and America gets a second generation shit version for 40 or 50k that has been fattened and rendered worthless, much like the second generation XB. (Hopefully the second generation is on some slop tier SUV platform so it doesn't wreck the economics of the Japanese market.)
GenerWork | 45 minutes ago
heohk | 40 minutes ago
internet2000 | 39 minutes ago
davexunit | 38 minutes ago
Grombobulous | 35 minutes ago
US roads are built for much, much higher speeds. Kei cars purposefully give up safety with the caveat that they’re only used on low speed roadways, and Japan designs their roads with the intention of these vehicles being acceptably safe in that context.
wodenokoto | 23 minutes ago
On intercity highways in Japan you are driving next to as large trucks as anywhere I've driven.
Grombobulous | 20 minutes ago
Oarch | 31 minutes ago
Mr_Eri_Atlov | 16 minutes ago
leoc | 12 minutes ago
lp92 | 11 minutes ago
devmor | 9 minutes ago