The very rich have been drawing further and further away not just from their fellow humans but from their own humanity- from what it is and means to be human.
"For some of these men, the fear of being caught out in a debate with an adult woman must have been greater than the fear of being caught in bed with an underage one."
“You might pose for smiling photos with women and girls, but you were unlikely to be photographed getting lost in an idea with them. A woman or girl might sit on your lap, but you wouldn’t want her sitting to your left.”
>It was wrath about being told “No” by people who are almost never told “No.”
If I could give one piece of advice to every young person, it would be to tell a romantic interest “no” very early on to see how they respond. Not even in response to something serious, necessarily. If they respond in a way that scares you or makes you uncomfortable, run.
Sounds about right based on the one person I knew in the files (a physics professor, Lawrence Krauss, who was banned from several university campuses over harassment allegations).
Interestingly, a few months back Sean Carroll (another famous physicist) posted a thread on BlueSky about how he was also in the Epstein files. Never met him or went to the island, but one of Epstein’s minions reached out, but Sean found it all weird and creepy after the first meeting and declined all Epstein invitations. Why? They invited him to the island for a science thing but then said his wife- a famous science journalist in her own right- could go “shopping with the other wives” and such. Having her join the science convo was not an option.
"Rarely do we get to make the connections between what people do in the hot tub and what they do in the conference rooms of banks and treasury departments and foundations. This connection-making is complicated and fraught, because, for example, hurting people through enabling a mortgage crisis that throws millions on the street is obviously a universe away from raping someone. And yet, done with care, there is value in identifying the common themes of dehumanization, insulation, indifference, and attitude that make possible the extreme things and the less extreme things, the economic pain and the trafficking pain, the acute cruelty visited on one person at a time and the chronic cruelty thrust upon millions."
good read. it's not just about sex or money or even direct power, it's about that sense of entitlement to everything under the sun (and i enjoyed the author's pointed use of "sublunary" at the end to describe the pesky "touch points" that are the rest of humanity).
Many years ago in the 1970s, I knew a girl who was unexpectedly trafficked. She was a junior in high school and realized her predicament when she was hours from home and the “nice man” who convinced her mother this was a business trip showed his true colors.
She told me she started reciting the table of periodic elements. She had been learning it in school. She said she kept reciting her science homework and wouldn’t stop despite his requests.
She was very lucky. He became disgusted with her and brought her back home.
This article gives me idea that she intuitively understood. He was looking at her as a brainless object, and she managed to turn the tide. I know many young girls are not as lucky.
I’m glad people were interested! I’m not the author but I thought this was very profound. I can really think of some areas in my life where I’ve seen the dynamic.
I forget the exact number, but for Epstein to handle your accounts, you had to be worth a couple of billion at least. (Maybe someone can give us the number.)
It's about power, access, and the unfettered freedom to do as you please...including rape children. These people sit at a level so high they look down on everything. Politics are shaped by them. National boundaries are meaningless to them. Laws are a suggestion. They're not beholden to anyone.
Epstein offered access to anything and anyone for those who could afford to play.
Though I’m no fan of billionaires and think we need to figure out a way to sustainably tax their wealth, it just seems like a politically manipulative label to attach them all as a group to a child molester.
That's fair. The author of the article clearly makes that distinction. My comment may have been less precise.
The Epstein Class refers to a specific group of people who were in Epstein's sphere. Some of those people--certainly not all--are alleged to have engaged in the same criminal activities that Epstein was convicted of.
It's possible to be a decent human and a billionaire. (I'll probably get down votes for this. 😀)
massiveyacht | 7 hours ago
The ‘touch points’ thing is just so fucking sad. Such an insular world these super rich live in
Accomplished-Law-652 | 2 hours ago
The very rich have been drawing further and further away not just from their fellow humans but from their own humanity- from what it is and means to be human.
Tax them. Tax them hard. It's for their own good.
cremains_of_the_day | 3 hours ago
Right? That struck me, too. Those moments make life so much better that I can’t even imagine avoiding them.
angrymurderhornet | 5 hours ago
"For some of these men, the fear of being caught out in a debate with an adult woman must have been greater than the fear of being caught in bed with an underage one."
Bingo.
PerizzHilton | 5 hours ago
“You might pose for smiling photos with women and girls, but you were unlikely to be photographed getting lost in an idea with them. A woman or girl might sit on your lap, but you wouldn’t want her sitting to your left.”
AltairaMorbius2200CE | 7 hours ago
I'm not sure what to add other than: read this. He's right in many different ways, and he makes connections I wouldn't have thought of.
Duchennesourire | 7 hours ago
“He couldn’t fit a whole woman in his head.” - Succession
readingwritingreefer | 4 hours ago
>It was wrath about being told “No” by people who are almost never told “No.”
If I could give one piece of advice to every young person, it would be to tell a romantic interest “no” very early on to see how they respond. Not even in response to something serious, necessarily. If they respond in a way that scares you or makes you uncomfortable, run.
PieComprehensive1818 | 37 minutes ago
My mother gave me that advice 40 years ago, it’s always stood me in good stead.
Andromeda321 | 4 hours ago
Sounds about right based on the one person I knew in the files (a physics professor, Lawrence Krauss, who was banned from several university campuses over harassment allegations).
Interestingly, a few months back Sean Carroll (another famous physicist) posted a thread on BlueSky about how he was also in the Epstein files. Never met him or went to the island, but one of Epstein’s minions reached out, but Sean found it all weird and creepy after the first meeting and declined all Epstein invitations. Why? They invited him to the island for a science thing but then said his wife- a famous science journalist in her own right- could go “shopping with the other wives” and such. Having her join the science convo was not an option.
[OP] Whywouldievensaythat | 3 hours ago
I read a piece about Krauss a while ago and he seems like a real piece of work. Sorry you knew him IRL. What an unpleasant man.
Man, good on Carroll for that.
Alienor-of-Aquitaine | 8 hours ago
Such a great article. I wanted to post a quote, but there's too many to chose. Truly a necessary read.
ReverendDizzle | 6 hours ago
You're not kidding. The article is just packed with fantastic snippets.
Accomplished-Law-652 | an hour ago
Here's one:
"Rarely do we get to make the connections between what people do in the hot tub and what they do in the conference rooms of banks and treasury departments and foundations. This connection-making is complicated and fraught, because, for example, hurting people through enabling a mortgage crisis that throws millions on the street is obviously a universe away from raping someone. And yet, done with care, there is value in identifying the common themes of dehumanization, insulation, indifference, and attitude that make possible the extreme things and the less extreme things, the economic pain and the trafficking pain, the acute cruelty visited on one person at a time and the chronic cruelty thrust upon millions."
Adept_Push | 2 hours ago
Now go down the rabbit hole by reading the other parts of this series and then click on recommended readings at the bottoms of each post.
It’s hard to see how we can crack this, honestly.
Skimable_crude | 6 hours ago
This is one of a series. I need to back and read the rest.
ReverendDizzle | 6 hours ago
A link to the series for anyone who wants to start at part 1 and read through.
[OP] Whywouldievensaythat | 3 hours ago
I just started the series! I read this one and felt like I really needed to share it. Now I have to go back and read the rest!
ErsatzHaderach | 6 hours ago
good read. it's not just about sex or money or even direct power, it's about that sense of entitlement to everything under the sun (and i enjoyed the author's pointed use of "sublunary" at the end to describe the pesky "touch points" that are the rest of humanity).
Skimable_crude | 10 hours ago
Well worth the read. Very insightful. The author writes out succinctly what we feel in our guts.
SameEntry4434 | 5 hours ago
Many years ago in the 1970s, I knew a girl who was unexpectedly trafficked. She was a junior in high school and realized her predicament when she was hours from home and the “nice man” who convinced her mother this was a business trip showed his true colors.
She told me she started reciting the table of periodic elements. She had been learning it in school. She said she kept reciting her science homework and wouldn’t stop despite his requests.
She was very lucky. He became disgusted with her and brought her back home.
This article gives me idea that she intuitively understood. He was looking at her as a brainless object, and she managed to turn the tide. I know many young girls are not as lucky.
detblue524 | 7 hours ago
Phenomenal piece
running_hoagie | 3 hours ago
They didn't/don't see women as equals.
mneale324 | 6 hours ago
Thank you for sharing! I went back and read part 1 and will be following.
healthcare_foreva | 5 hours ago
Women were for doing this to but not doing things with.
bruhhhhhhhhhhhh_h | 7 hours ago
Good article
attagirlie | 6 hours ago
thank you for posting this. super thought provoking
[OP] Whywouldievensaythat | 3 hours ago
I’m glad people were interested! I’m not the author but I thought this was very profound. I can really think of some areas in my life where I’ve seen the dynamic.
plausden | 4 hours ago
great read.
Mou_aresei | 7 hours ago
I am not able to open the article. Does anyone have an archived link?
mirandale139 | 6 hours ago
Archive.ph to the rescue: https://archive.ph/JV52l
Mou_aresei | 6 hours ago
Thank youuuuu! 🎉
LadyLassitude | 6 hours ago
Archive.ph or archive.is
averageveryaverage | 2 hours ago
Very good article.
thefruitsofzellman | 5 hours ago
What is the Epstein class? Anyone worth over 50 million? Or is there another dimension besides wealth?
Skimable_crude | an hour ago
I forget the exact number, but for Epstein to handle your accounts, you had to be worth a couple of billion at least. (Maybe someone can give us the number.)
It's about power, access, and the unfettered freedom to do as you please...including rape children. These people sit at a level so high they look down on everything. Politics are shaped by them. National boundaries are meaningless to them. Laws are a suggestion. They're not beholden to anyone.
Epstein offered access to anything and anyone for those who could afford to play.
thefruitsofzellman | 51 minutes ago
Though I’m no fan of billionaires and think we need to figure out a way to sustainably tax their wealth, it just seems like a politically manipulative label to attach them all as a group to a child molester.
Skimable_crude | 24 minutes ago
That's fair. The author of the article clearly makes that distinction. My comment may have been less precise.
The Epstein Class refers to a specific group of people who were in Epstein's sphere. Some of those people--certainly not all--are alleged to have engaged in the same criminal activities that Epstein was convicted of.
It's possible to be a decent human and a billionaire. (I'll probably get down votes for this. 😀)
_uphill_both_ways | 6 hours ago
So interesting! I started listening to The Ezra Klein Show again after reading this.