I’ve always had decent luck with recruiting firms and job placement agencies, but the trick is to start conversations when you’re not yet in need so you can turn down their bullshit “foist this guy off” offers. The most tiring is where they offer “hybrid” and you talk to the company you’d be placed at and they say “sure, yeah, someday if we don’t need you in the office some days, maybe six months down the line once you’ve established yourself “ which is them basically telling you they don’t do hybrid, but want the kind of cachet given to a company that does actually offer hybrid.
How do you actually engage with a recruiting firm or job placement agency and know that it's not full of shit? I've been approached by recruiters from the employer's side before on linked in but they've mostly been duds, albeit duds where I was more likely to actually interview, but I have no idea how you manage to end up with someone helping you with job placement who remotely gives a shit about you.
The few times I’ve engaged with actual recruiters for tech roles, I’ve gone with recommendations from people I’ve known that have used them and found good roles, so networking in my case. However, the role that I currently have was found through a company that was less of a recruiter and more of a placement agency. I took a shot in the dark with them and it panned out. They were more like a temp agency like Manpower or Kelly than a headhunter.
I somehow actually just started a fully-remote job this week that I found on LinkedIn... but I think I'm kind of an outlier there. I also found all of these boards a while back:
I think @Narry's advice about using recruiting firms is probably the best, though. That's what my mom kept telling me to do when I was looking and I kind of ignored her, but it ended up meaning I applied to ~140 jobs, got interviews for ~10, and got 1 offer. The offer was definitely my favorite of the interviews, so it worked out, but definitely pretty rough just applying without someone actually looking and helping you.
Seems even worse this year for my sector, be it remote or local.
Yeah, of those 140ish I applied to, most were hybrid (which I think is just most software engineering jobs at the moment), but even though weren’t giving me consistent interviews (obviously, based on my stats, lol).
Someone on reddit made a site called https://hiring.cafe/ that (if I recall correctly) pulls job listings directly from companies' websites, and has pretty detailed filters. So that might be worth checking out! I'm planning to use it for my own job search.
I'm not really looking for a job but this is a neat site, good to have a place to look that's not completely infiltrated with bullshit ads like LinkedIn or Indeed.
Edit: I used this site to find out my company is hiring people for roles I know are easier than mine at up to $35k more a year 🙃🙃
My experience is that opportunities for remote work in my part of the tech world vary wildly with the skillset/qualifications you have.
I've worked partly or fully remotely the last 9 years (except when we travel to clients), and do quite a bit of hiring.
We experience much lower circulation. People aren't moving as often as they used to a couple years back.
From the companies I interact with, those who still have reputations for being good places to work get swamped with people who reach out and say they'd like to be notified/kept in mind if positions appear. I don't remember that being common before, but I experience this semi-regularly now. It's been talked about at work on several occasions.
It's the same when we filled a position last week as before covid:
We've always gotten at least 10 times more applications for remote positions.
There are so many people I'd hire for in-person work in a heartbeat that I'd never dream of offering a remote position. Based on personality, need for training/building culture, and a host of other concerns. This would also be true if we got next to no remote applications; the demands and skills needed to work remotely are much, much tougher on the employee.
We always require way more practically relevant experience specifically for a position's expected tasks if it's being filled remotely. There's even less room for learning the job on the job now than there used to be. Why risk it when there are so many other candidates?
Networking and acquaintances (reliable references) are even more king than before the AI-slopification on both sides of the hiring process.
What I'm trying to say is: I really hope it works out. Manage expectations.
The market for remote positions feels extremely tough right now. Many are hurting for work.
I think more than ever one needs a lot of luck and stand-out qualities to find something palatable that's remote.
Many in our sector are going to have to settle. For many that compromise will be that they don't work remotely. I hope that's not anyone in this thread!
There are so many people I'd hire for in-person work in a heartbeat that I'd never dream of offering a remote position. Based on personality, need for training/building culture, and a host of other concerns.
I would like to hear about personality things that put candidate in the No pile for remote please
We'll happily ship a computer/phone/home office equipment and so on to someone we never intend on meeting physically.
But we would disqualify anyone for a remote position if two or more interviewees feel that one of the following or similar is not met:
Doesn't handle work/life balance well.
Doesn't have several hobbies/recuring social settings in their personal life to make up for lack of physical social contact at work.
Doesn't exude strong planning capabilities and orderliness.
Seems to dislike online meetings.
Doesn't speak regularly during online meetings, or misses social cues in hybrid meetings.
Doesn't take social initiative in digital settings or can't small talk in digital settings.
Doesn't understand social intent in written communications very well or remember different social preferences of others well.
Appears not to know how they come off socially or appears to feel individual social interactions have too much at stake to get "right".
Doesn't volunteer progress reports/updates/new tasks they want to take on/fill their plate with (must be highly independent)
Isn't social or seems to want to work remotely to avoid socializing with people.
Doesn't have clear reasons/experiences underpinning why they want to work remotely.
Doesn't want to speak to their personal life with colleagues to the same extent as they would in-person.
Has to have strong personal interests/curiosities for the work they perform. If they don't love spending time on at least some of the day-to-day tasks, they're not a fit.
Must present a realistic assessment of what both their work-life and whole life will look like while working remotely.
There are probably many more I can't think of off the top of my head.
The area others in the hiring process sometimes vote me down is my skepticism of remote colleagues who don't work from the same (few) place(s) all the time, or those who don't take regular vacations and travel to the same extent as in-person employees.
It's extremely demanding on a person's whole life to work remotely and alone. Without a strong social framework, my experience and that from all other areas of the company and those we interact with is:
Only a small minority of those who want to work remotely are suited to it in the long term. Those do share very similar traits.
Others work themselves to burnout, depression, boredom, quitting, frustration of colleagues, or delivering at a minimum level.
If you don't have all sorts of specific personality traits and skills, you won't grow in your role over time working remotely. Only a very small amount of both roles and people are suited to people who don't grow over time.
I want to reiterate: These are attractive positions. We pick from large numbers of candidates.
I will second all of these for sure. I've done really well in this job because the main reason I wanted to work from home rather than in an office was that in the office I tend to be interrupted constantly and can never hit my flow for more than a short while.
Remotely, without people constantly jogging my elbow and "dropping by" my desk looking for help, I'm actually an amazing worker with incredible work ethic if I do say so myself. I produce results. I still socialize with my coworkers online, I just... put that aside for breaks and slow periods.
You'll note that it wasn't "I want to avoid work" it's "I want to work more, with fewer interruptions." That's not the usual mindset.
Even as an introvert I can easily socialize with coworkers as appropriate, but the boundaries that remote forces that aren't respected in the office in-person (in my experience) help me do better work.
As an introvert some of that long list of items makes me want to curl up into a ball. Regardless of that, I've done well in a remote environment already, so I don't know that the full list always needs to be so stringent- I think introverts can operate well in remote positions even if one thinks they don't match every item in the list.
Then again, I'm not really going to be looking for positions where I need to be "volunteering" a bunch of stuff I want to "fill my plate with" because that's just not how I operate. I can work independently, sure, but I just need a big list of crap to do
And that said, I can "pretend" / "switch modes" and being super outgoing, sociable, and so on when my paycheck demands it. I've done customer service long enough that I'm good at faking it :)
Then again, I'm not really going to be looking for positions where I need to be "volunteering" a bunch of stuff I want to "fill my plate with" because that's just not how I operate. I can work independently, sure, but I just need a big list of crap to do
That point also includes progress reports and updates, not just new tasks. To me, this is about managerial exchange.
Those doing the work are usually much better at knowing when it's important to loop which colleagues in, tasks should have priority and what tasks need to wait. Managers can't ever be as hands on, but often need information exchange.
If that flow is too one-way, there will be friction.
Tasks always materialize for those who're in-person. There're always short tasks that need to be done. The whole process becomes cumbersome if centralized figures have to "collect" what needs to be done, prioritize and then dole out tasks to everyone.
Personally, I know there will always be those who believe working from home means you contribute less and work less.
The issue with those suited to remote work is much more often the exact opposite: That they work too much, too long hours, too few breaks, and too focused on operational metrics (too little time reading/exploring the field, too little time developing/experimenting off-task and so on).
Yeah it's going to majorly depend on the position and type of work of course too, I'm sure a lot of what you're envisioning in particular is circling around these higher level jobs where a lot of that is necessary a lot of the time. I've had customer service / help desk types of positions where checking in with management on any kind of progress was minimal and minimally needed - just not the type of job that necessitates it. I've had sysadmin jobs where a weekly team meeting was enough for progress reports and so on, and as far as what needs done I'd just hash that out with a team lead or something a bit periodically. Etc. And I have excelled in those positions.
But regardless, I've lost most of my motivation or aspiration for a majority of fields and the job positions that would be remote these days, but maybe I can still find something. No need, or necessarily even desire, for it to be anything super exciting. Of course I'll feign whatever demeanor is necessary to succeed. More transactional than aspirational or whatever. If it's doing spreadsheets all day or something, perfect. I just want to input work and output enough money to get by and leave it at that and honestly I wish more employers just could face that reality and let their workers be upfront about that, but nah, in society everyone's gotta put a huge layer of BS on top of everything. Maybe it will be packing boxes for minimal pay at some local business, who knows anymore. My excitement for most fields of work has been sapped out of me, I leave the excitement to my hard-to-monetize hobbies
Edit: I am also fully aware that sometimes I am in a negative headspace and let that leak through here. So, after some much needed sleep let me say that maybe I will still find a niche that brings me joy and excitement! As negative as I can be sometimes I still have hope. Every day is a new day and I am sorry for probably being a downer sometimes with my posts. Been struggling a bit.
For me, it’s a combination of my ADHD and my introversion that leads me to be like this. Really a lot of what you need to be a remote worker boils down to: doesn’t need a lot of oversight, and doesn’t have a lot of things at home to interrupt them during the workday. Having the kind of personality that enjoys long stretches of solitude also helps.
Yeah, probably same here. While not actually diagnosed, I've matched enough detailed descriptions of ADHD, and heard from others similarly, that I'm quite certain I have some level of it and always have (it would explain a lot)
FWIW I believe that official diagnosis is worth it to put the mystery to bed and begin managing it. White knuckling and masking is a difficult way to approach the world and it can take a lot out of you.
The only thing that stands out to me from your list is the vacation aspect. Yes it's important to recharge, but travelling is also somewhat life stage dependent. For families with young kids, or someone who is caring for an infirm relative, or folks with a large number of pets, they might get all the benefits of travelling, from small day trips for example.
But I'm sure you guys are doing basically a culture fit and not here's a form to fill and we'll machine filter out answers. That the intent is looking for sane, stable, internally whole person who can be here for the long run, not put on an unsustainable "yes boss anything boss your work is my life" mask who might slow fade or rage quit one day.
or those who don't take regular vacations and travel to the same extent as in-person employees.
Money's already tight as is. I can barely pay rent, let alone get proper time to myself.
Are you maybe situated in the EU? I just never really imagined a world where I can freely take yearly vacations. Getting more than a week off is so difficult unless I'm physically ill.
Doesn't have to be more than a day excursion to visit family, or taking a Friday off to make a weekend trip somewhere close by, or adding an afternoon/morning/night to a work-paid trip to a customer/function (many roles still have those for us, know that's probably rarer).
The whole point to me is that we all need input, changes of scenery, having a network, wanting to do things is important. This is a marker for well-being in my mind.
Again, I sometimes get push-back on that internally, but I believe it's a good indication: If someone's only ever at the same few physical locations over and over, then most of us won't have a good time.
Again, I sometimes get push-back on that internally, but I believe it's a good indication:
A good indication of privilege, perhaps. I don't know if I assassinate a weekend trip to see my parents as a "vacation" per se. Especially when they are relatively nearby (i.e. in the same few physical locations). And as an American I only have bad experiences trying to talk about my out-of-work schedule to my workplace. So much is used against us to try and justify firings or pay cuts or otherwise guilt trip us into the very thing you penalize prospective employees for.
That's why it seems like this is a mindset more out of the EU with proper workplace protectinons (and likewise, an environment where hiring needs to be considered more carefully).
All of us working remotely just have more time than others because we don't spend that time commuting. What do we use that time for?
Again, remote positions are only available to those who are selected in highly, highly competitive hiring processes.
For at least the last 20 years, our US segment has focused on hiring for longevity.
Training new folks and turnover are very expensive. It's common for people to need significant training/follow-up because they're new for at least a year. That goes for every tech role, even the most entry-level position.
Flexibility goes both ways.
I'd be at a loss if colleagues didn't talk about taking off early an afternoon to see a recital at daycare. If there was so little chat I didn't know what a close colleague's partner does and a little about who they are.
How could the company expect someone to see if they could shift stuff in their personal life to work early or late due to customer time-zones?
How would our workplace environment be if people didn't share the excitement that they're going to their brother's wedding, or let others know they were feeling down because their dog has cancer?
This wouldn't work in our high-pressure environment. It'd be impossible and unprofessional to compartmentalize personal life because our personal lives do impact our performance and how our colleagues want to behave.
It very well may be completely different in other parts of tech. I've been in this field too long to know.
All of us working remotely just have more time than others because we don't spend that time commuting. What do we use that time for?
More work sadly. I don't want the next inevitable layoff to lack leverage. Time to myself is time to invest in my future self, because my experiences show that the idea of a traditional career for the Gen Z (and I guess "Zillenial", which I fall into) doesn't exist. I don't get to think in "careers" like the other end of Millenials or Gen X. Only in "gigs". Part of this is self inflicted, but I don't think my industry by itself is the problem.
Again, remote positions are only available to those who are selected in highly, highly competitive hiring processes.
Yes, and most of my career was remote. I still have part time contract work, but it's just that; contract ends and I move on. I have to think about tomorrow in terms of work and not leisure because no one else will do it for me.
In my case (regardless of onsite or remote work) I'll likely be focusing on making my own game during the next inevitable game industry bust. May not be livable money, but it will be something I truly own and can't be laid off from.
I'll keep fighting for progressive causes as well, but that's probably more of a 10-15 year goal at this rate, not 3-5.
How could the company expect someone to see if they could shift stuff in their personal life to work early or late due to customer time-zones?
I imagine they ask and we give our schedule. I compromised at times where I talked to teams on the EU side and I end up meeting at 6-7AM while it's 8-9PM on their end. If the mission is important we make the time.
But that seems to run counter to the "I need to take an afternoon off to see a kid's recital", no?
How would our workplace environment be if people didn't share the excitement that they're going to their brother's wedding, or let others know they were feeling down because their dog has cancer?
"Professional", I suppose. There's always exceptions but the "we're a family" illusion broke in the late 2010's (and COVID was the coup d'etat). How can you truly care of your fellow coworker when half of you disappear in 3 years (and perhaps, everyone you know is gone on 5 after rounds of layoffs)?
I'll modify the formula a bit, "make friends, not family'. There's always a few contacts from every job I try to stay in touch with. Even in my non-tech gigs. But only a few out of a group of dozens and maybe hundreds.
This wouldn't work in our high-pressure environment. It'd be impossible and unprofessional to compartmentalize personal life because our personal lives do impact our performance and how our colleagues want to behave.
Of course. And that personal life becomes easy numbers for people 3 levels above your manager (and I'll say I've never had a horrible manager like other second hand experiences) to cross you off a list as an expense instead of as a person.
With national holidays included I usually take 35-40 days off a year, and the time on leisure travel is usually more like 60 or 70 - the latter is achieved by doing some remote work (at a semi-hybrid company) in between PTO.
US employee. Ultimately it depends more on the company than anything else.
How does one demonstrate or otherwise present compatibility with all of these traits in an interview? Are these all questions you run through, or are these potential behaviors inferred from your brief interaction?
I feel like it's difficult enough to get an interview these days, and then to have an expectation of coming across as this type of person, potentially unprompted, within a timeframe of an hour or less, is incredibly hard to achieve.
I'm not trying to come across as argumentative. I just don't understand how all of those things can be identified in one or multiple interviews.
We try to respect a candidate's time. Hiring is never more than:
Reading the application (we send out rejection letters to more than 90% of candidates at this step, for remote positions that figure's often closer to 95%)
A phone call that culminates in either "thanks for applying" or "it's great we've set a time for the interview" to those with an interesting CV and application
Interview 1 (max 25-30 mins). (Always digital, also for in-person positions unless candidate requests otherwise)
Interview 2, if made onto shortlist (around an hour, always digital for a remote position, always physical if not)
Offer/non-offer through their preferred method of communication
The candidate never interacts with more than max 4 different people from the company throughout the whole process.
We arrange for an interviewer being late to interview 1 so we have 3-4 minutes to kill with small talk/whatever.
In interview 2, a different interviewer says at the start that they might get an important phone call they have to take, and apologize in advance if they have to step out for a couple of minutes (they always get the call. One of the interviewers initiates the call at a strategic/right time as the interview progresses.)
Setting tone, interviewers that are experienced and know each other, and with clear roles and preparation (especially for interview 2), following up concern that arises, it's not hard to get through all of this.
It depends greatly from candidate to candidate what we have to explicitly ask about, and what we can just tick off as the conversation goes naturally. It's not like we ask "how often do you go on vacation?"
My sincerest advice for candidates who want to check all the boxes is sadly worn-out, overdone, hard to make use of and frustrating:
Be yourself. Be relaxed. Be honest. Don't segue to pre-prepared answers; we can tell.
It's just an interview. You'll have much, much higher pressure situations on the job if you accept an offer to work here.
Interview us to see if we're, and this specific role, is a match for you
(Again, bear in mind the huge volume of applicants for remote positions in tech, so companies get to be very picky)
I was PIP'ed in my previous company back in August and let go in November, and started a new job first week of December. I was definitely really lucky in that regard and I love my new job (I'm pretty much doing the same thing I've always been and in a much bigger team with way more varying years of experience so I can learn and mentor people)
I'd highly suggest still keeping up on LinkedIn, that's how I got my job. I will say remote or not definitely depends on your job function, and which company. I'm guessing that the mega corps with real estate (FAANG or whatever) it's probably harder to find remote positions.
That being said, I do think my current company is making a hiring push. I can't guarantee anything but if anyone feels comfortable sending me some info about the position they're looking for I can send them the job board from my company and if anything lines up I'm happy to try and send a rec. Since I just started I don't have too too much sway (I've been trying to get my SO a job at my company for a while now and it hasn't happened yet sadly)
My current job I used the easy apply button on LinkedIn and was able to land the job after the interviews basically! Sometimes I do respond to recruiter messages but I never managed to get far in those interviews.
My first job was through Indeed, second job was through BuiltIn(Boston) and my current job was from LinkedIn! I never really used my network yet but I hope to someday.
The button actually works?! I'd assumed the whole place was a series of mild scams lol that's cool thanks for letting me know and glad it worked out for you!
Hiring is all about knowing people — your personal connections, or recruiters. Maybe AI is ravaging the hiring process, but it also seems like there's far too much indecision and inertia in the job market.
I'll say that my last interview for a remote position was offered to me, I didn't apply or ask for it. It came from the manager of a friend of a friend. Went great. And then HR didn't want to do paperwork for my state. I recently posted on LinkedIn and might get a conversation for another remote role out of that.
With company leaders feeling confident about weaponizing RTO to reduce headcount and AI to replace workers, full-time remote work is slowly becoming extinct. For the good ones that remain -- high pay, no risk of RTO, good work-life balance -- they're not found on job boards but through connections.
Narry | a day ago
I’ve always had decent luck with recruiting firms and job placement agencies, but the trick is to start conversations when you’re not yet in need so you can turn down their bullshit “foist this guy off” offers. The most tiring is where they offer “hybrid” and you talk to the company you’d be placed at and they say “sure, yeah, someday if we don’t need you in the office some days, maybe six months down the line once you’ve established yourself “ which is them basically telling you they don’t do hybrid, but want the kind of cachet given to a company that does actually offer hybrid.
sparksbet | a day ago
How do you actually engage with a recruiting firm or job placement agency and know that it's not full of shit? I've been approached by recruiters from the employer's side before on linked in but they've mostly been duds, albeit duds where I was more likely to actually interview, but I have no idea how you manage to end up with someone helping you with job placement who remotely gives a shit about you.
Narry | a day ago
The few times I’ve engaged with actual recruiters for tech roles, I’ve gone with recommendations from people I’ve known that have used them and found good roles, so networking in my case. However, the role that I currently have was found through a company that was less of a recruiter and more of a placement agency. I took a shot in the dark with them and it panned out. They were more like a temp agency like Manpower or Kelly than a headhunter.
0x29A | a day ago
Yeah i am curious about this too because there is no shortage of horror stories about recruiters in general
kari | a day ago
I somehow actually just started a fully-remote job this week that I found on LinkedIn... but I think I'm kind of an outlier there. I also found all of these boards a while back:
Some of them seemed better than others, at least for the positions I was interested in, but I figured I'd share.
I think @Narry's advice about using recruiting firms is probably the best, though. That's what my mom kept telling me to do when I was looking and I kind of ignored her, but it ended up meaning I applied to ~140 jobs, got interviews for ~10, and got 1 offer. The offer was definitely my favorite of the interviews, so it worked out, but definitely pretty rough just applying without someone actually looking and helping you.
raze2012 | 20 hours ago
Definitely rough. My interview rate these past 18 months has been way lower than 10%. Seems even worse this year for my sector, be it remote or local.
kari | 10 hours ago
Yeah, of those 140ish I applied to, most were hybrid (which I think is just most software engineering jobs at the moment), but even though weren’t giving me consistent interviews (obviously, based on my stats, lol).
CannibalisticApple | a day ago
Someone on reddit made a site called https://hiring.cafe/ that (if I recall correctly) pulls job listings directly from companies' websites, and has pretty detailed filters. So that might be worth checking out! I'm planning to use it for my own job search.
OBLIVIATER | 21 hours ago
I'm not really looking for a job but this is a neat site, good to have a place to look that's not completely infiltrated with bullshit ads like LinkedIn or Indeed.
Edit: I used this site to find out my company is hiring people for roles I know are easier than mine at up to $35k more a year 🙃🙃
0x29A | a day ago
Thanks for this, this might prove super helpful for me
nacho | a day ago
My experience is that opportunities for remote work in my part of the tech world vary wildly with the skillset/qualifications you have.
I've worked partly or fully remotely the last 9 years (except when we travel to clients), and do quite a bit of hiring.
We experience much lower circulation. People aren't moving as often as they used to a couple years back.
From the companies I interact with, those who still have reputations for being good places to work get swamped with people who reach out and say they'd like to be notified/kept in mind if positions appear. I don't remember that being common before, but I experience this semi-regularly now. It's been talked about at work on several occasions.
It's the same when we filled a position last week as before covid:
We've always gotten at least 10 times more applications for remote positions.
There are so many people I'd hire for in-person work in a heartbeat that I'd never dream of offering a remote position. Based on personality, need for training/building culture, and a host of other concerns. This would also be true if we got next to no remote applications; the demands and skills needed to work remotely are much, much tougher on the employee.
We always require way more practically relevant experience specifically for a position's expected tasks if it's being filled remotely. There's even less room for learning the job on the job now than there used to be. Why risk it when there are so many other candidates?
Networking and acquaintances (reliable references) are even more king than before the AI-slopification on both sides of the hiring process.
What I'm trying to say is: I really hope it works out. Manage expectations.
The market for remote positions feels extremely tough right now. Many are hurting for work.
I think more than ever one needs a lot of luck and stand-out qualities to find something palatable that's remote.
Many in our sector are going to have to settle. For many that compromise will be that they don't work remotely. I hope that's not anyone in this thread!
chocobean | a day ago
I would like to hear about personality things that put candidate in the No pile for remote please
nacho | a day ago
We'll happily ship a computer/phone/home office equipment and so on to someone we never intend on meeting physically.
But we would disqualify anyone for a remote position if two or more interviewees feel that one of the following or similar is not met:
There are probably many more I can't think of off the top of my head.
The area others in the hiring process sometimes vote me down is my skepticism of remote colleagues who don't work from the same (few) place(s) all the time, or those who don't take regular vacations and travel to the same extent as in-person employees.
It's extremely demanding on a person's whole life to work remotely and alone. Without a strong social framework, my experience and that from all other areas of the company and those we interact with is:
I want to reiterate: These are attractive positions. We pick from large numbers of candidates.
Narry | 23 hours ago
I will second all of these for sure. I've done really well in this job because the main reason I wanted to work from home rather than in an office was that in the office I tend to be interrupted constantly and can never hit my flow for more than a short while.
Remotely, without people constantly jogging my elbow and "dropping by" my desk looking for help, I'm actually an amazing worker with incredible work ethic if I do say so myself. I produce results. I still socialize with my coworkers online, I just... put that aside for breaks and slow periods.
You'll note that it wasn't "I want to avoid work" it's "I want to work more, with fewer interruptions." That's not the usual mindset.
0x29A | 21 hours ago
I'm the same way, at least in that aspect.
Even as an introvert I can easily socialize with coworkers as appropriate, but the boundaries that remote forces that aren't respected in the office in-person (in my experience) help me do better work.
As an introvert some of that long list of items makes me want to curl up into a ball. Regardless of that, I've done well in a remote environment already, so I don't know that the full list always needs to be so stringent- I think introverts can operate well in remote positions even if one thinks they don't match every item in the list.
Then again, I'm not really going to be looking for positions where I need to be "volunteering" a bunch of stuff I want to "fill my plate with" because that's just not how I operate. I can work independently, sure, but I just need a big list of crap to do
And that said, I can "pretend" / "switch modes" and being super outgoing, sociable, and so on when my paycheck demands it. I've done customer service long enough that I'm good at faking it :)
nacho | 17 hours ago
That point also includes progress reports and updates, not just new tasks. To me, this is about managerial exchange.
Those doing the work are usually much better at knowing when it's important to loop which colleagues in, tasks should have priority and what tasks need to wait. Managers can't ever be as hands on, but often need information exchange.
If that flow is too one-way, there will be friction.
Tasks always materialize for those who're in-person. There're always short tasks that need to be done. The whole process becomes cumbersome if centralized figures have to "collect" what needs to be done, prioritize and then dole out tasks to everyone.
Personally, I know there will always be those who believe working from home means you contribute less and work less.
The issue with those suited to remote work is much more often the exact opposite: That they work too much, too long hours, too few breaks, and too focused on operational metrics (too little time reading/exploring the field, too little time developing/experimenting off-task and so on).
0x29A | 15 hours ago
Yeah it's going to majorly depend on the position and type of work of course too, I'm sure a lot of what you're envisioning in particular is circling around these higher level jobs where a lot of that is necessary a lot of the time. I've had customer service / help desk types of positions where checking in with management on any kind of progress was minimal and minimally needed - just not the type of job that necessitates it. I've had sysadmin jobs where a weekly team meeting was enough for progress reports and so on, and as far as what needs done I'd just hash that out with a team lead or something a bit periodically. Etc. And I have excelled in those positions.
But regardless, I've lost most of my motivation or aspiration for a majority of fields and the job positions that would be remote these days, but maybe I can still find something. No need, or necessarily even desire, for it to be anything super exciting. Of course I'll feign whatever demeanor is necessary to succeed. More transactional than aspirational or whatever. If it's doing spreadsheets all day or something, perfect. I just want to input work and output enough money to get by and leave it at that and honestly I wish more employers just could face that reality and let their workers be upfront about that, but nah, in society everyone's gotta put a huge layer of BS on top of everything. Maybe it will be packing boxes for minimal pay at some local business, who knows anymore. My excitement for most fields of work has been sapped out of me, I leave the excitement to my hard-to-monetize hobbies
Edit: I am also fully aware that sometimes I am in a negative headspace and let that leak through here. So, after some much needed sleep let me say that maybe I will still find a niche that brings me joy and excitement! As negative as I can be sometimes I still have hope. Every day is a new day and I am sorry for probably being a downer sometimes with my posts. Been struggling a bit.
Narry | 20 hours ago
For me, it’s a combination of my ADHD and my introversion that leads me to be like this. Really a lot of what you need to be a remote worker boils down to: doesn’t need a lot of oversight, and doesn’t have a lot of things at home to interrupt them during the workday. Having the kind of personality that enjoys long stretches of solitude also helps.
0x29A | 20 hours ago
Yeah, probably same here. While not actually diagnosed, I've matched enough detailed descriptions of ADHD, and heard from others similarly, that I'm quite certain I have some level of it and always have (it would explain a lot)
Narry | 19 hours ago
FWIW I believe that official diagnosis is worth it to put the mystery to bed and begin managing it. White knuckling and masking is a difficult way to approach the world and it can take a lot out of you.
chocobean | 11 hours ago
The only thing that stands out to me from your list is the vacation aspect. Yes it's important to recharge, but travelling is also somewhat life stage dependent. For families with young kids, or someone who is caring for an infirm relative, or folks with a large number of pets, they might get all the benefits of travelling, from small day trips for example.
But I'm sure you guys are doing basically a culture fit and not here's a form to fill and we'll machine filter out answers. That the intent is looking for sane, stable, internally whole person who can be here for the long run, not put on an unsustainable "yes boss anything boss your work is my life" mask who might slow fade or rage quit one day.
raze2012 | 20 hours ago
Money's already tight as is. I can barely pay rent, let alone get proper time to myself.
Are you maybe situated in the EU? I just never really imagined a world where I can freely take yearly vacations. Getting more than a week off is so difficult unless I'm physically ill.
nacho | 17 hours ago
Doesn't have to be more than a day excursion to visit family, or taking a Friday off to make a weekend trip somewhere close by, or adding an afternoon/morning/night to a work-paid trip to a customer/function (many roles still have those for us, know that's probably rarer).
The whole point to me is that we all need input, changes of scenery, having a network, wanting to do things is important. This is a marker for well-being in my mind.
Again, I sometimes get push-back on that internally, but I believe it's a good indication: If someone's only ever at the same few physical locations over and over, then most of us won't have a good time.
raze2012 | 16 hours ago
A good indication of privilege, perhaps. I don't know if I assassinate a weekend trip to see my parents as a "vacation" per se. Especially when they are relatively nearby (i.e. in the same few physical locations). And as an American I only have bad experiences trying to talk about my out-of-work schedule to my workplace. So much is used against us to try and justify firings or pay cuts or otherwise guilt trip us into the very thing you penalize prospective employees for.
That's why it seems like this is a mindset more out of the EU with proper workplace protectinons (and likewise, an environment where hiring needs to be considered more carefully).
nacho | 16 hours ago
Yes, privilege.
All of us working remotely just have more time than others because we don't spend that time commuting. What do we use that time for?
Again, remote positions are only available to those who are selected in highly, highly competitive hiring processes.
For at least the last 20 years, our US segment has focused on hiring for longevity.
Training new folks and turnover are very expensive. It's common for people to need significant training/follow-up because they're new for at least a year. That goes for every tech role, even the most entry-level position.
Flexibility goes both ways.
I'd be at a loss if colleagues didn't talk about taking off early an afternoon to see a recital at daycare. If there was so little chat I didn't know what a close colleague's partner does and a little about who they are.
How could the company expect someone to see if they could shift stuff in their personal life to work early or late due to customer time-zones?
How would our workplace environment be if people didn't share the excitement that they're going to their brother's wedding, or let others know they were feeling down because their dog has cancer?
This wouldn't work in our high-pressure environment. It'd be impossible and unprofessional to compartmentalize personal life because our personal lives do impact our performance and how our colleagues want to behave.
It very well may be completely different in other parts of tech. I've been in this field too long to know.
raze2012 | 6 hours ago
More work sadly. I don't want the next inevitable layoff to lack leverage. Time to myself is time to invest in my future self, because my experiences show that the idea of a traditional career for the Gen Z (and I guess "Zillenial", which I fall into) doesn't exist. I don't get to think in "careers" like the other end of Millenials or Gen X. Only in "gigs". Part of this is self inflicted, but I don't think my industry by itself is the problem.
Yes, and most of my career was remote. I still have part time contract work, but it's just that; contract ends and I move on. I have to think about tomorrow in terms of work and not leisure because no one else will do it for me.
In my case (regardless of onsite or remote work) I'll likely be focusing on making my own game during the next inevitable game industry bust. May not be livable money, but it will be something I truly own and can't be laid off from.
I'll keep fighting for progressive causes as well, but that's probably more of a 10-15 year goal at this rate, not 3-5.
I imagine they ask and we give our schedule. I compromised at times where I talked to teams on the EU side and I end up meeting at 6-7AM while it's 8-9PM on their end. If the mission is important we make the time.
But that seems to run counter to the "I need to take an afternoon off to see a kid's recital", no?
"Professional", I suppose. There's always exceptions but the "we're a family" illusion broke in the late 2010's (and COVID was the coup d'etat). How can you truly care of your fellow coworker when half of you disappear in 3 years (and perhaps, everyone you know is gone on 5 after rounds of layoffs)?
I'll modify the formula a bit, "make friends, not family'. There's always a few contacts from every job I try to stay in touch with. Even in my non-tech gigs. But only a few out of a group of dozens and maybe hundreds.
Of course. And that personal life becomes easy numbers for people 3 levels above your manager (and I'll say I've never had a horrible manager like other second hand experiences) to cross you off a list as an expense instead of as a person.
To not know that is indeed, priveledge.
stu2b50 | 8 hours ago
With national holidays included I usually take 35-40 days off a year, and the time on leisure travel is usually more like 60 or 70 - the latter is achieved by doing some remote work (at a semi-hybrid company) in between PTO.
US employee. Ultimately it depends more on the company than anything else.
ShroudedScribe | 7 hours ago
How does one demonstrate or otherwise present compatibility with all of these traits in an interview? Are these all questions you run through, or are these potential behaviors inferred from your brief interaction?
I feel like it's difficult enough to get an interview these days, and then to have an expectation of coming across as this type of person, potentially unprompted, within a timeframe of an hour or less, is incredibly hard to achieve.
I'm not trying to come across as argumentative. I just don't understand how all of those things can be identified in one or multiple interviews.
nacho | 5 hours ago
We try to respect a candidate's time. Hiring is never more than:
The candidate never interacts with more than max 4 different people from the company throughout the whole process.
We arrange for an interviewer being late to interview 1 so we have 3-4 minutes to kill with small talk/whatever.
In interview 2, a different interviewer says at the start that they might get an important phone call they have to take, and apologize in advance if they have to step out for a couple of minutes (they always get the call. One of the interviewers initiates the call at a strategic/right time as the interview progresses.)
Setting tone, interviewers that are experienced and know each other, and with clear roles and preparation (especially for interview 2), following up concern that arises, it's not hard to get through all of this.
It depends greatly from candidate to candidate what we have to explicitly ask about, and what we can just tick off as the conversation goes naturally. It's not like we ask "how often do you go on vacation?"
My sincerest advice for candidates who want to check all the boxes is sadly worn-out, overdone, hard to make use of and frustrating:
(Again, bear in mind the huge volume of applicants for remote positions in tech, so companies get to be very picky)
phoenixrises | a day ago
I was PIP'ed in my previous company back in August and let go in November, and started a new job first week of December. I was definitely really lucky in that regard and I love my new job (I'm pretty much doing the same thing I've always been and in a much bigger team with way more varying years of experience so I can learn and mentor people)
I'd highly suggest still keeping up on LinkedIn, that's how I got my job. I will say remote or not definitely depends on your job function, and which company. I'm guessing that the mega corps with real estate (FAANG or whatever) it's probably harder to find remote positions.
That being said, I do think my current company is making a hiring push. I can't guarantee anything but if anyone feels comfortable sending me some info about the position they're looking for I can send them the job board from my company and if anything lines up I'm happy to try and send a rec. Since I just started I don't have too too much sway (I've been trying to get my SO a job at my company for a while now and it hasn't happened yet sadly)
chocobean | 11 hours ago
That's really kind of you, Phoenix. I'm glad your thriving at your new job.
Can you elaborate on how you found a job on linked in? I get spam "recruiter" messages but I doubt that's what you meant
phoenixrises | 7 hours ago
My current job I used the easy apply button on LinkedIn and was able to land the job after the interviews basically! Sometimes I do respond to recruiter messages but I never managed to get far in those interviews.
My first job was through Indeed, second job was through BuiltIn(Boston) and my current job was from LinkedIn! I never really used my network yet but I hope to someday.
chocobean | 6 hours ago
The button actually works?! I'd assumed the whole place was a series of mild scams lol that's cool thanks for letting me know and glad it worked out for you!
Apex | a day ago
I'm in the market for remote work, too. Applications have gotten me nowhere since November.
scojjac | 6 hours ago
Hiring is all about knowing people — your personal connections, or recruiters. Maybe AI is ravaging the hiring process, but it also seems like there's far too much indecision and inertia in the job market.
I'll say that my last interview for a remote position was offered to me, I didn't apply or ask for it. It came from the manager of a friend of a friend. Went great. And then HR didn't want to do paperwork for my state. I recently posted on LinkedIn and might get a conversation for another remote role out of that.
tachyon | 9 hours ago
With company leaders feeling confident about weaponizing RTO to reduce headcount and AI to replace workers, full-time remote work is slowly becoming extinct. For the good ones that remain -- high pay, no risk of RTO, good work-life balance -- they're not found on job boards but through connections.