New Zealand set to be first country to ban PFAS in cosmetic products

135 points by crescit_eundo 2 years ago on hackernews | 28 comments

[OP] crescit_eundo | 2 years ago

soperj | 2 years ago

I wonder if that includes dental floss.

bdcravens | 2 years ago

Typically dental floss is categorized as hygiene, not cosmetics.

hammock | 2 years ago

Or contact lenses

reilly3000 | 2 years ago

It is a fascinating vector for undesirable chemicals to seep straight into the bloodstream. Ironic if consistent flossing lowers heart disease risk but increases cancer risk.

andrewstuart | 2 years ago

The surprise is not that it’s newsworthy.

The surprise is that this is allowed in the first place.

dylan604 | 2 years ago

no, to me is that they are regulating skin care/cosmetic products at all.

bethekind | 2 years ago

Off topic, but you can think of PFAS as micro plastics at the molecular level.

We humans can metabolize/excrete the shorter ones (common in food wrappers, cosmetics, fire fighting foam) over months to years, but the longer ones (mostly banned in the 2010's IIRC) are usually never metabolized and slowly build up in the body and mess things up. Like cancer rates near DuPont GenX factories or fire fighters having higher rates of testicular cancer.

TLDR: PFASes are bad, NZ is doing a good thing. Not sure if we have replacement chemicals for PFAS yet, but I hope so

Hugsun | 2 years ago

Sometimes, we can't have nice things. PFAS seems to be one of those times.

There only seem to be application specific replacements, e.g. ceramic pan coatings and glass mouse skates. The properties of PFAS are in a class of their own. All the known replacements are other PFAS.

danielheath | 2 years ago

“Molecule is extremely durable” and “molecule does not accumulate in the body” are inherently at odds; the design space in which those properties arise lends itself naturally to insidious poisons.

aplummer | 2 years ago

Wouldn’t that describe things like gold? Harmless if both are true?

totetsu | 2 years ago

And in the cultural dispatch from NZ, There is also this

“Carnival of Toxicity” held at the site of the former Fruitgrowers Chemical Company,

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/301034373/extreme-p...

refurb | 2 years ago

They aren't really used in cosmetics anyways...

"“International research suggests PFAS are only found in a small number of products, but we take a precautionary approach to potential risks from PFAS. Banning these chemicals in cosmetics is part of our ongoing response, which includes phasing out all PFAS-firefighting foams and testing for background levels of PFAS in the New Zealand environment.”"

https://www.epa.govt.nz/news-and-alerts/latest-news/epa-bans...

throwaway290 | 2 years ago

Wait, PFAS is generally allowed in cosmetic products? Mind blown...

Doesn't it like accumulate in body?

hparadiz | 2 years ago

Cosmetics contain a ton of micro plastics. Anything with glitter is just microplastics all the way down

emptybits | 2 years ago

Good move. TFA doesn't go into details about how to actually recognize PFAS by name in an ingredients list.

The FDA lists 35 PFAS apparently used in cosmetics here: (near end of doc) https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetic-ingredients/and-polyf...

crtified | 2 years ago

Unfortunately this news is a positive consolation fronting a general backdrop of environmentally and socially regressive policies from the freshly elected right-wing New Zealand government coalition. Elected in the aftermath of Jacinda Ardern's globally acclaimed Covid management - acclaimed outside New Zealand that is! It did not go down so well with a proportion of the NZ population, who resented lockdown and control, and needed a scapegoat for all ills, feeling that her government's failure to simultaneously reform all of New Zealand's systems and economy was unforgivable.

As a result, New Zealand now has a new government of markedly different ilk, whose agenda includes new and increased mining and gas exploration, including conservation land [1] ; removal of fair pay legislation for workers; reinstating of tobacco sales to certain age groups formerly subject to upcoming bans; divisive race-based uproars; removal of sex education in schools; a shift of transport focus away from alternatives like walking, cycling and public transport, and back to cars and road-building; removal of a tax upon high-emission vehicles; removal of a clean car (EV) subsidy - after the new Prime Minister's wife has taken advantage of it, naturally; and so on.

Accordingly, while I laud the headline in and of itself, it does little to salve my current environmental and social shame in being a New Zealander today, all things considered.

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/12/shane-jones-...

andersrs | 2 years ago

I hate the National party as much as you and those are valid criticisms but you should take an honest look at what really happened here; The previous government lost rather than the new one winning. https://pastebin.com/91S1BQ2B

Labour failed on the things they campaigned on like house prices and child poverty. The covid hero mask can only last so long. People have had enough of the woke policy, money wasted on endless consultants and race based shake downs, sky high cost of living, broken healthcare and so on. Anyway the thread is about PFAS so this is all quite tangential!

crtified | 2 years ago

It's ironic that almost everything in your long list of Labour's financial sins is equalled in $ by National's one single move of new tax-breaks for landlords. It puts into clear context the way that appearances trumped objectivity, when it came to the country's electoral fickleness. It's also ironic that what you're here lauding - the PFAS story - is an initiative which occurred under Ardern's government. It's not the kind of thing you'll be seeing in the results of the new one.

So yes, the thread is about PFAS, but its secondary framing is that of lauding New Zealand for an environmental positive. And, in that same light, its quite relevant to mention in the same breath that New Zealand is also taking several, arguably much larger, steps backwards environmentally - pulling back the country's environmental focus, in favour of business and commercial interests, due to having elected a right-wing government which stands in stark contrast to the "kind, positive" aspirational style that the world remembers from Ardern.

'New Zealand leads the way environmentally' is a style of story the world will be seeing less of, the more terms this new government has.

andersrs | 2 years ago

I never said I was a National fan but I'm just providing you a perspective on why the country didn't like them because you seem very partisan. That list is how the swing voters see Labour. Labour had a majority and should have done a bunch of anti-landlord things while they could like capital gains tax or land tax. They have absolutely failed on housing and now it's sad to see a party of rent seekers in power.

"New Zealand leads the way environmentally" - has been bullshit ever since Helen wanted sell dairy to China. Ardern's government were promoting tourism and excluding it from our carbon footprint. I did enjoy the tank drivers bitching about the ute tax as they call it.

crtified | 2 years ago

There was no workable housing solution, under the circumstances. That's something the populace probably cannot accept. Disparate governments the world over face the same - for example, Australia just voted out their version of National, in favour of their version of Labour, based upon all the same resentments! a political mirror image, proving beyond doubt the fallacy of NZ's partisan blame - and they are finding they cannot policy-it-away. So yes, I am annoyed that we resentfully voted to make it actively worse. If that makes me partisan, then so-be-it. But I acknowledge that I am somewhat preaching to the choir with you, Sir Anders.

As you described, "anti-woke" (among other things) won the day, and unfortunately, regressive large-scale environmental policy is one result of that, because the whole green movement is cast as an aspect of wokeness. There is no "shift to anti-wokeness" that doesn't also involve a net loss for the environment. And that is far more pertinent than PFAS in makeup, where New Zealand's environmental work is concerned. But I accept that I am unpopular for believing and speaking so.

andersrs | 2 years ago

Unfortunately politics comes in sausage format only and each sausage contains something nasty. I'd like to have strong environmental policy while also not having wokeness shoved down my throat and my kids' throats. I'd like to support neither redneck ute drivers nor woke 'progressives'. As someone who dislikes the sausage format the right-wing user-pays argument is appealing to me. It takes all the spicy bits out of the sausage and let's people add their own sauces as they see fit. That all works great until you find out that right-wing's daddy owns a bunch of sauce companies that spill sauce everywhere. You're stuck with the same few awful sausages because the supermarket won't sell any new sausages unless they get 5% market share. Good chat.

someotherperson | 2 years ago

> because the whole green movement is cast as an aspect of wokeness

The "Green movement" is the quintessential example of what people consider wokeness because the "Green movement" is arguably the single handed worst thing to happen to the environment. Rejection of nuclear energy in favor of gas and goal (i.e the only other alternatives until a decade ago, and still the only other alternative until we develop better battery tech) is bananas, but that's somehow considered environmental in the eyes of the "Green movement." Moving to plastics to "save the trees" was an extension of that nonsense.

> There is no "shift to anti-wokeness" that doesn't also involve a net loss for the environment

You'll find that the most anti-woke people are the only pro-nuclear voices in Australasia.

ztetranz | 2 years ago

Chloe for Green co-leader -> PM!

andersrs | 2 years ago

Every product (and packaging) needs a list of ingredients just like food. It's insane that tea bags, pizza boxes and popcorn bags are coated in this toxic PFAS!

smallmouth | 2 years ago

Not to sound like a jerk, but why is NZ concerned about PFAs in cosmetics when they were so forceful about getting their population jabbed with the mRNA injections?

someotherperson | 2 years ago

PFAS have no health benefits, subjective or objective.

lm28469 | 2 years ago

Is there a link between PFAS and mrna vaccines?