That's the thing about the Lindsey Graham(scum) bill. A lot of countries still trade legally or illegally with Russia for oil, diesel and so on. Many of them need to. America knows so all those senators breathing fire at India and China are quiet about all these allies buying it.
Russia's gonna keep trading and making money off oil and getting the refined fuel it needs because it's built up relationships with over a dozen countries lots of which the US isn't gonna touch with sanctions because they're China(too strong) or because they're allies who've buttered him up and bribed Uncle Sam with investments and stuff.
So going tough on this is just gonna mean picking on and scapegoating India without actually doing any real damage to Russia's trade.
Russias gdp is equal to Italy or France. If they wanted they could have helped Ukraine more.
But why are Europeans still buying Russian energy? Directly and indirectly. They have reduced but still buying. The war is in their door steps. They should man up and provide Ukraine full protection on the west side so Ukraine can fight on east. Why did they not give planes and missles at start? They are always worried about red lines. It’s nearly 5 years now, Hypocrisy…
I want Ukraine to win but the Europeans should have done more and totally stop Russian imports of energy and tourists before lecturing everyone else…
They also lecture you on human rights etc but Europeans have been primarily responsible for untold suffering world wide with their colonisation, extraction of resources and 2 world wars and more. The Asian countries have had enough boss.
Alternatively, let's be practical: there is trade between countries, and no law can transcend national borders. The United States or Europe do not have real coercive power over other countries in the world, and now people have come to see this clearly. Trade between any country and Russia is not actually "illegal" because there is no law that can override all countries in the world. UN is a contract that ensures dialogue among all countries, but it does not have coercive measures at the level of realism.
There are international organizations that can place sanctions on countries like the world bank and the international monetary fund and they are primarily guided by the US and their political/economic goals for the world.
So even though the US can't enforce restrictions on other countries, they can make things more difficult through sanctions but they often turn a blind eye to allies or strategic partners.
I really hate stories like this, South Korea didn’t ship anything to Russia, South Korean companies did, and without knowing the terms of sale, it’s impossible to say if anyone really knew before hand. Especially if the shipments were on Exworks or FCA terms.
Russia likely hid the buyer and destinations behind a few layers of traders and swap agreements.
Thats the problem, its really hard to enforce sanctions on bulk commodities, especially when they can be transfer ship to ship at sea. Its a game of wackamole, and as soon as you blacklist one buyer, a new one with a clean history oops up.
Europeans expect Asian countries to give a shit about European security issues when Europeans don't give a shit about Asian security issues.
What did Macron do at the beginning of the Ukraine war? Ah yes, he went to China, trashed South korea, Japan, Taiwan and Philippines most important western ally ( the US) and stated that Asian problems are not European problems. Basically signaling that he didn't give a shit about Taiwan.
Was it Modi who basically said Europe wants everyone to care about their issues while they couldn't care less about the rest of the world.
Europeans think they are far more important than they actually are. The world has moved on from them. And they've spent the last couple decades outsourcing their energy production, manufacturing, and defense, due to mostly moral reasoning.
It's made them weak, and dependent on the rest of the world. They have no real leverage.
>What did Macron do at the beginning of the Ukraine war? Ah yes, he went to China, trashed South korea, Japan, Taiwan and Philippines most important western ally ( the US) and stated that Asian problems are not European problems. Basically signaling that he didn't give a shit about Taiwan.
South Korea is actively supplying Russia with critical resources it needs to fuel it's bloody war that's destabilized whole of Europe, and you're comparing that to some nonsense Macron said in China years ago? Who upvotes this trash?
the article literally says S.Korean shippers were told these would be going to Japan and Singapore and were then rerouted to Russia. smh do people no longer read. from their perpective, why would they forgo an opportunity to make money as long it's not violating any sanctions (which they thought was the case)
But why are Europeans still buying Russian energy? Directly and indirectly. They have reduced but still buying. The war is in their door steps. They should man up and provide Ukraine full protection on the west side so Ukraine can fight on east. Why did they not give planes and missles at start? They are always worried about red lines. It’s nearly 5 years now, Hypocrisy…
I want Ukraine to win but the Europeans should have done more and totally stop Russian imports of energy and tourists before lecturing everyone else…
They also lecture you on human rights etc but Europeans have been primarily responsible for untold suffering world wide with their colonisation, extraction of resources and 2 world wars and more. The Asian countries have had enough boss.
I've spent the last two years in world subreddits listening to how awful and stupid Americans are, and yes they do not care whether or not you are a Democrat or never voted for Trump. Anything less than civil unrest is not sufficient enough for them when it comes to our problems.
Then I have to sit here and continue listening to it while they continue to buy fuel from Russia and go through cycles of voting far-right/corrupt parties in and out and then in and out.
Same as you. I want Ukraine to win. There have been times where I respected Europe more on values and rights far more than I did the United States. But sitting here pointing fingers without having a constructive conversation on ALL of our problems and weaknesses is a big problem. I admit I'm getting really annoyed with a lot of the doomerism on the politically focused subreddits but I also get it because a majority of our world leaders appear to have their heads in the sand.
according to your propaganda, "S.Korea shipped like less than 0.1% of what Europe/Japan have bought from Russia since the start of this war (and mind you, this is after Russia tankers lied to S.Korea saying it was destined to Japan/Singapore)"
is somehow is equivalent to "South Korea is actively supplying Russia with critical resources it needs to fuel it's bloody war".
i knew when r/worldnews was immediately hit with 3 different posts covering this same topic all being mass upvoted and bots astroturfing each thread with "boycott korea" comments that this was not an organic response. it seems like S.Korea's suspicions that Ukraine is trying to get S.Korea involved in this war isn't without merit.
Not caring about European security is one thing - actively helping russia is another. Companies and countries that do such activities are targeted by secondary sanctions, which are ranging from slap on the wrist to complete ban from western financial system.
> South Korea is far too important to the US to just toss it in the trash. Korea knows this, and will continue to do business with Russia.
Like Canada is important ? Are you really under the impression that the US government has been a rational actor lately ? The US has been actively harming US interests for years now…
honestly, if forced to choose between SK and the EU, the us may well choose SK at this point. they are absolutely critical for our mil ind complex, shipping, and tech industries.
The US will never toss SK to the side because they produce chips very critical to AI industry, what does EU produce? Wine and petrol vehicles? A relic thinking it’s important
EU is the only producer of machines that make advanced chips. Without Korean companies there less supply of chips, without ASML and Zeiss there is no chip industry.
eh, as others have pointed out ASML relies on american patents so even in a disentangling situation business with asml would likely continue. short of that the us has a lot of fabs already and would have enough time to build their own before they started to break down.
ASML is cool but as a chip guy, it's really really weird to suddenly see Europeans know what ASML is and start bragging about it. ASML has been the main tool vendor for photolithography for quite a while, a lot of decisions are driven by what ASML is capable of doing, but ASML is exactly one company that's doing most of its work in one country. Unless you live in that country, its existence is extremely tangential to yours.
For what it's worth, ASML's work is heavily based on a lot of research done in the US. Which is why they've been complying on export controls.
Also, it took ASML like 20 years to get EUV done after promising and promising and promising and promising and promising that it'd be done earlier, so while they're riding high now they were a little bit grumped about for a very long time. They took so long they basically had to rename the technology, used to be called x-ray something-or-other.
Also ASML forced the remaining fab vendors to buy a chunk of it back about, eh, 13 ish years ago, give or take. So they're owned more globally than you may think.
Before EUV was finally commercialized, the fabs that kept being promised EUV instead went to dual-patterning and quad-patterning. "Advanced chips" needs to be defined specifically. The current leading nodes are all based on EUV, yes, and without it, it would be way more expensive to pattern dies, and it's possible node shrinks would have stalled out. But we ran the economy just fine on 2017-era process nodes, so, yknow, eh. It would suck but we'd manage. And realistically if ASML were to shutter, the remaining leading node fabs would spin up another tool vendor and recreate the tools ... after spending like fifty billion dollars on it and being real mad about it.
The same US that has loud isolationist voices on both ends of the horseshoe? You really can't see the potential for cutting the fat in places that aren't loyal enough to be worth spending American blood defending?
It is precisely this idea that led the entire Asia to ignore the needs of Europe. Because from a different perspective, you will find that no matter how many Europeans those Russians kill, it is meaningless to Asians. Reality is cold. Asia's mastery of industrial power surpasses any moral nonsense.
It's up to everyone to decide if they want to help Europe, noone is forced to do anything. But if you help russia be prepared to be sanctioned. This has nothing to do with morality or any other nonsense.
Sanctions against Asia? sure? Especially China, Japan, and South Korea?
What I am talking about is a very practical issue: you Europeans have no bargaining chips at all because your industrial strength is very weak. Playing this moral game instead of learning to be smarter will actually only harm Europe's already limited support from other regions.
If Japan and South Korea decide not to provide their industrial products to Europe, guess who will suffer more?
Yes, many companies across Asia were sanctioned for their support towards russia. If anything, EU holds the power to disconnect anyone - be it country or company - from SWIFT, which is by far the largest financial system in the world. Iran have lost about a third of it's GDP in just 3 years after it was put under heavier sanctions, most noticeable of which was SWIFT ban.
Then they are likely to switch to using Chinese yuan, and you would never want that to happen. Geopolitical strategy is a ruthless game that requires weighing the pros and cons of everything. Obviously, Europe has decided not to be foolish at the moment. No matter what a comment on Reddit says, Europe has no chips.
And we're talking about South Korea, not Iran. Do you think South Korea and Iran are equivalent? I guess few people would say that.
Meanwhile, Iran has certainly suffered losses, but compared to the cost of choosing to support Europe, this is simply insignificant - when the US Empire actually invades Iran and Europeans cannot and are unwilling (due to Europe's foolish moral decisions) to provide support for Iran, who else can provide support?
Oh, yes, surprisingly, it's Russia and China.
This is what I am actually trying to express: if Asia's problems are not Europe's problems, then Europe's problems are not Asia's problems either. Each country has its own interests, and there is no reason for South Korea or other Asian countries to sacrifice themselves for Ukraine.
Let's each play our own game, but please remember that you are the weak industrial side, don't pretend that you can threaten Asia.
Not sure why European countries would rush to defend Iran, they are not global police to defend oppressed or invaded people.
Europe is doing what is in Europe's interests. Helping Ukraine is in Europe's interests, hurting russia is in Europe's interests, hurting anyone who helps russia in in Europe's interests. Same as for every other country, you are correct in that. South Korea would do the exact same thing if European countries started sending aid to North Korea, not sure what is hard to grasp here.
There's a huge industrial country very close to that area that might be interested in cutting edge EUV machines and closer ties instead of being antagonized. If Russia is not SEAs problem then that other country shouldn't be Europe's problem should it?
See how acting in pure self interest can quickly lead to serious adverse effects? That's why politics is hard and alliances need work.
Europeans care about Europeans first and foremost, they are not global police anymore. The exact same way every country has it's own interests first. Right now whatever is happening in Pakistan is hardly relevant for European security or prosperity, so naturally it's not comparable to whatever russia is doing from European POV.
But why are Europeans still buying Russian energy? Directly and indirectly. They have reduced but still buying. The war is in their door steps. They should man up and provide Ukraine full protection on the west side so Ukraine can fight on east. Why did they not give planes and missles at start? They are always worried about red lines. It’s nearly 5 years now, Hypocrisy…
I want Ukraine to win but the Europeans should have done more and totally stop Russian imports of energy and tourists before lecturing everyone else…
They also lecture you on human rights etc but Europeans have been primarily responsible for untold suffering world wide with their colonisation, extraction of resources and 2 world wars and more. The Asian countries have had enough boss.
Why shouldn't South Korea, or any other country, be able to make their own decisions about who they want to do business with?
> Companies and countries that do such activities are targeted by secondary sanctions
You seem to take it as natural that the US should be the moral arbiter of the world.
Well, Trump is fast destroying both America's moral authority and its technical/financial ability to impose sanctions.
> complete ban from western financial system.
Which are less essential every day. Of course, losing a single standard is a global inefficiency, but that's the natural consequence of America abusing its power.
Punishing countries and companies that help russia is in Europe's best interest, so they are doing just that. Everyone is free to do whatever they want though.
Yes, they do. They also have deadlines set in place when this will stop. EU members have preferential status because they have a say in EU policies, which serves as a vector for most of Europe. Call this double standards, but that's how Europe operates. It's not like Korea treats Seoul and Warsaw equally just because they are capital cities.
Any country providing help to russia will catch hate towards itself. That's normal and that's how things should be. We should not normalize providing any help to a warmonger country that just today killed 20 people, including 4 children, with a missile strike.
EuroPeon countries are ALWAYS at war with each other in some form or another. For thousands of years the Europoors have been waging war against each other. If the US didn't build bases in every Europeon country, there would already be another world war. Even now, far right movements are gaining all over the region.
Asia doesn't give a shit about the economically and technologically irrelevant region that can't learn to behave for just a few decades.
Current SK president have blamed Ukraine for russian invasion, that's about as much as you need to know about this guy and his stance towards Ukraine https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20220228004200315
Korean president said something and you take that as the truth? The article you linked even says that Ukraine denies such an agreement exists. They've even said it doesn't make sense that it would be kept a secret. Logically, it doesn't even make sense.
You don't need to prove if an "nda" existed you just need to figure out if it's a reasonable situation.
The best I can give RoK is that it's somehow a cultural thing. Apologizes come in many forms and I wouldn't be surprised if there was no apology hence they Korea says it wasn't "good enough" and why Sybiha calls it a "diplomatic misunderstanding" the alternatives are much worse for RoK imho
So, based on the same logic, why do we have to inherently believe that what the Ukrainians are saying is true? I remember very clearly that Europe regarded almost everything Zelensky said as truth, including his "criticisms" and "moral accusations" against many countries.
You don't that's why I said you just need to use all the other information to understand if the situation is reasonable. I remember president Lee being given a prison sentence suspended for lying.
Who was sentenced by? I remember that the previous South Korean president was literally a far right extremist who launched a military coup, and President Lee won support by opposing him.
No, I didn't actually say that President Lee's words must be the truth. What I'm actually saying is: why do people have double standards towards Ukrainians and Koreans?
Why are European issues more important than Asian issues?
Heh. I don't see any reason why it would/should have been a secret. The current ROK government is seen as wanting closer ties to DPRK and has more reason to make a fuss about this. They detained and are investigating the South Korean advocates who went to Ukraine to support the DPRK soldiers in going to ROK. I wouldn't be surprised if ROK didn't even want to take these people anyway
South Korea is supporting Russia’s war of conquest against Ukraine because of something Emmanuel Macron said? What other aspects of Korean foreign policy does the French government get to dictate?
It’s like if Japan said something shitty about the EU, and the UK used that to justify supporting a Chinese invasion of South Korea.
>South Korea is supporting Russia’s war of conquest against Ukraine because of something Emmanuel Macron said?
If this tiny amount of fuel that wouldn't even last a day in Russia is considered supporting Russias war, then Europe is the largest supporter of Russia by buying 100s of billions of Euros of energy from Russia every single year, which allows Russia to pay its soldiers and workers vast sums of money to keep the war going.
The whole reason Russia is able to continue to recruit new soldiers is because the government can pay its soldiers more than an American soldier makes.
Spare me your fake moral outrage. Its borderline racist to expect Koreans to do something that Europeans are not.
Russia is North Korea's second closest ally. There are North Koreans actively fighting in the war. If you fail to see how this is an Asian security issue - let alone a Korean security issue - you are either delusional or lying.
>Europeans expect Asian countries to give a shit about European security issues when Europeans don't give a shit about European or Asian security issues.
Even in 2026 with Trump in the office. Europeans are looking to the US to maintain global order and direct security support. Even now Europeans are mixed about their long term commitment to Ukraine's victory. Europeans politicians are still divided and bickering even as their populaces are unhappy with their reduced quality of life from inflation. They aren't in the mood to fight for Europe (it's a concept after all), escalate against Russia (to end the war), nor double down on sanctions nor truly weening themselves off Russia.
So does that mean they are reunifying with North Korea? Because Russia owes NK favors in dealing with South Korea for it's military assistance. Honestly this just sounds like dumb greed.
>Europeans expect Asian countries to give a shit about European security issues when Europeans don't give a shit about Asian security issues.
Whelp, this is an outright lie. France and the UK, the European members of the Security Council, voted to authorize the use of force to defend South Korea when North Korea invaded in 1950.
And the UK, Netherlands, France, Greece, Belgium, even Luxembourg sent troops to fight on South Korea's behalf.
this is a bullshit post by a Ukrainian reporter (Ivan Khomenko). The fuel shipments were done by private commodity traders out of open commercial ports, NOT by the korean government.
Almost zero nations outside of the EU believe Russia has done anything wrong. NATO encroached to Russian boarders against all US agreements with Russia post Soviet collapse. Not only did NATO encroach eastward, they've crossed several red lines including threatening to incorporate Ukraine into NATO. Not only would the US not stand for any Russian bases on their border, they'd never allow the sanctioning of trade with willing third-parties. Everything happening in Ukraine is 100% on NATO and propping up a puppet government in Ukraine.
> NATO encroached to Russian boarders against all US agreements with Russia post Soviet collapse.
These agreements don't exist. Russia shills like you always point to some vague 'promise' or 'agreement' that either never existed or is being fundamentally misrepresented.
> Not only did NATO encroach eastward
You mean all the nations directly to the west of Russia that are sick and tired of having to deal with Russian aggression and imperialism throughout the centuries didn't know half how quick to send in their application to join the anti-Russia neighbourhood watch?
Wow, that's crazy, dude. Can't believe why countries like:
Finland (1939)
Estonia (1939 and 1945)
Latvia (1939 and 1945)
Lithuania (1939 and 1945)
Poland (1939 and 1945)
Czechia (1968)
Slovakia (1968)
Hungary (1956)
Romania (1940)
would want to be part of NATO.
Truly inconceivable. Real headscratcher. I can't make any sense of it!
This is extremely embarrassing for South Korea and the Korean people.
It makes them look like petulant children willing to cry over any small thing. This is their childish tantrum over the world finding out they were taking Ukraine's NK POW's.
If South Korean leadership doesn't stop being so idiotic. They are going to wake up one day against a North Korean military, experienced and tested through drone warfare in Ukraine.
South Korea should have been sending weapons to Ukraine in exchange for advancements in drone technology.
Instead now South Korea is getting left behind diplomatically and militarily.
Russia at no point had reason to think Ukraine was attacking them, Israel was literally attacked by Hamas. This is a stupidly false equivalence. Russia and Hamas are the aggressors in both equations.
why is that relevant? they arnt acting like the center of the world by asking for what they view to be their own citizens to be returned to them lmfao.
North Korean forces getting training is not new. Throughout the Cold War, they were more battle hardened than the South save for during the Vietnam War as they sent troops everywhere like Angola.
Korean law prohibits sales of weapons to a country in active conflict. If Ukraine bought some weapons before the war, not a problem.
So the whole damn world is supposed just be hand in hand with the Trump Bibi regime? Not sure this happens if SOH is still open...
Regardless the whole world is out for thier own intrests, the US thought at best they could fuck over China with these crude flows, turns out China was more than prepared.
Do I blame SK for getting it's own energy and paving its own path, no?
Should we blame Japan for selling of all the US bonds to fund it's future, probably not.
[OP] diwalibonus | 9 hours ago
That's the thing about the Lindsey Graham(scum) bill. A lot of countries still trade legally or illegally with Russia for oil, diesel and so on. Many of them need to. America knows so all those senators breathing fire at India and China are quiet about all these allies buying it.
Russia's gonna keep trading and making money off oil and getting the refined fuel it needs because it's built up relationships with over a dozen countries lots of which the US isn't gonna touch with sanctions because they're China(too strong) or because they're allies who've buttered him up and bribed Uncle Sam with investments and stuff.
So going tough on this is just gonna mean picking on and scapegoating India without actually doing any real damage to Russia's trade.
Tentacle_poxsicle | 3 hours ago
Yes but this also means Russia gets to keep genociding Ukraine and invading Europe
d3vmax | an hour ago
Russias gdp is equal to Italy or France. If they wanted they could have helped Ukraine more.
But why are Europeans still buying Russian energy? Directly and indirectly. They have reduced but still buying. The war is in their door steps. They should man up and provide Ukraine full protection on the west side so Ukraine can fight on east. Why did they not give planes and missles at start? They are always worried about red lines. It’s nearly 5 years now, Hypocrisy…
I want Ukraine to win but the Europeans should have done more and totally stop Russian imports of energy and tourists before lecturing everyone else…
They also lecture you on human rights etc but Europeans have been primarily responsible for untold suffering world wide with their colonisation, extraction of resources and 2 world wars and more. The Asian countries have had enough boss.
N-Yayoi | 7 hours ago
Alternatively, let's be practical: there is trade between countries, and no law can transcend national borders. The United States or Europe do not have real coercive power over other countries in the world, and now people have come to see this clearly. Trade between any country and Russia is not actually "illegal" because there is no law that can override all countries in the world. UN is a contract that ensures dialogue among all countries, but it does not have coercive measures at the level of realism.
MisterMittens64 | 2 hours ago
There are international organizations that can place sanctions on countries like the world bank and the international monetary fund and they are primarily guided by the US and their political/economic goals for the world.
So even though the US can't enforce restrictions on other countries, they can make things more difficult through sanctions but they often turn a blind eye to allies or strategic partners.
FearlessPark4588 | 6 hours ago
maybe if green energy was ever more prominent there'd be be even less reason for any dependence on Russia
Microplasticsharts | 6 hours ago
I really hate stories like this, South Korea didn’t ship anything to Russia, South Korean companies did, and without knowing the terms of sale, it’s impossible to say if anyone really knew before hand. Especially if the shipments were on Exworks or FCA terms.
Russia likely hid the buyer and destinations behind a few layers of traders and swap agreements.
MudOld239 | 5 hours ago
Doesn't matter. Someone needs to enforce the sanctions, am I right?
Microplasticsharts | 4 hours ago
Thats the problem, its really hard to enforce sanctions on bulk commodities, especially when they can be transfer ship to ship at sea. Its a game of wackamole, and as soon as you blacklist one buyer, a new one with a clean history oops up.
DeRpY_CUCUMBER | 9 hours ago
Europeans expect Asian countries to give a shit about European security issues when Europeans don't give a shit about Asian security issues.
What did Macron do at the beginning of the Ukraine war? Ah yes, he went to China, trashed South korea, Japan, Taiwan and Philippines most important western ally ( the US) and stated that Asian problems are not European problems. Basically signaling that he didn't give a shit about Taiwan.
Was it Modi who basically said Europe wants everyone to care about their issues while they couldn't care less about the rest of the world.
Europeans think they are far more important than they actually are. The world has moved on from them. And they've spent the last couple decades outsourcing their energy production, manufacturing, and defense, due to mostly moral reasoning.
It's made them weak, and dependent on the rest of the world. They have no real leverage.
MoWillaims4 | 9 hours ago
They did for money for the elites
Goodk4t | 8 hours ago
>What did Macron do at the beginning of the Ukraine war? Ah yes, he went to China, trashed South korea, Japan, Taiwan and Philippines most important western ally ( the US) and stated that Asian problems are not European problems. Basically signaling that he didn't give a shit about Taiwan.
South Korea is actively supplying Russia with critical resources it needs to fuel it's bloody war that's destabilized whole of Europe, and you're comparing that to some nonsense Macron said in China years ago? Who upvotes this trash?
DateMasamusubi | 8 hours ago
This is a day's worth of fuel and a drop compared to what Europe and Japan buys from Russia per oil and gas sales.
VoxNihili-13 | 7 hours ago
Only slightly more than 1/3 of Russia’s exports per day and he’s losing it. “Actively” supplying. 😂
Mazoutibachi | 7 hours ago
so why the f did they do it in the first place if this is such an unsignificant amount ?
eioeio123123 | 6 hours ago
the article literally says S.Korean shippers were told these would be going to Japan and Singapore and were then rerouted to Russia. smh do people no longer read. from their perpective, why would they forgo an opportunity to make money as long it's not violating any sanctions (which they thought was the case)
Mazoutibachi | 4 hours ago
Hey this is Reddit man, of course we don't read articles in depth!
Stunning_Mulberry_35 | 7 hours ago
for the money.....
d3vmax | 5 hours ago
But why are Europeans still buying Russian energy? Directly and indirectly. They have reduced but still buying. The war is in their door steps. They should man up and provide Ukraine full protection on the west side so Ukraine can fight on east. Why did they not give planes and missles at start? They are always worried about red lines. It’s nearly 5 years now, Hypocrisy…
I want Ukraine to win but the Europeans should have done more and totally stop Russian imports of energy and tourists before lecturing everyone else…
They also lecture you on human rights etc but Europeans have been primarily responsible for untold suffering world wide with their colonisation, extraction of resources and 2 world wars and more. The Asian countries have had enough boss.
CatCatchingABird | 2 hours ago
I've spent the last two years in world subreddits listening to how awful and stupid Americans are, and yes they do not care whether or not you are a Democrat or never voted for Trump. Anything less than civil unrest is not sufficient enough for them when it comes to our problems.
Then I have to sit here and continue listening to it while they continue to buy fuel from Russia and go through cycles of voting far-right/corrupt parties in and out and then in and out.
Same as you. I want Ukraine to win. There have been times where I respected Europe more on values and rights far more than I did the United States. But sitting here pointing fingers without having a constructive conversation on ALL of our problems and weaknesses is a big problem. I admit I'm getting really annoyed with a lot of the doomerism on the politically focused subreddits but I also get it because a majority of our world leaders appear to have their heads in the sand.
eioeio123123 | 6 hours ago
HOLY paid Ukrainian bot alert lmao.
according to your propaganda, "S.Korea shipped like less than 0.1% of what Europe/Japan have bought from Russia since the start of this war (and mind you, this is after Russia tankers lied to S.Korea saying it was destined to Japan/Singapore)"
is somehow is equivalent to "South Korea is actively supplying Russia with critical resources it needs to fuel it's bloody war".
i knew when r/worldnews was immediately hit with 3 different posts covering this same topic all being mass upvoted and bots astroturfing each thread with "boycott korea" comments that this was not an organic response. it seems like S.Korea's suspicions that Ukraine is trying to get S.Korea involved in this war isn't without merit.
MudOld239 | 4 hours ago
Where are you from?
MrD3a7h | an hour ago
Their account is 8 months old and has a hidden post history. I think we know where they are from.
MudOld239 | 12 minutes ago
I mean mine is 3 months old lol.
rizakrko | 9 hours ago
Not caring about European security is one thing - actively helping russia is another. Companies and countries that do such activities are targeted by secondary sanctions, which are ranging from slap on the wrist to complete ban from western financial system.
DeRpY_CUCUMBER | 9 hours ago
No one is kicking South Korea out of the western financial system. In fact, if Europe tried, it would probably get strong pushback from America.
South Korea is far too important to the US to just toss it in the trash. Korea knows this, and will continue to do business with Russia.
It’s also a little rich considering European countries including France are still buying Russian energy.
Zogfrog | 8 hours ago
> South Korea is far too important to the US to just toss it in the trash. Korea knows this, and will continue to do business with Russia.
Like Canada is important ? Are you really under the impression that the US government has been a rational actor lately ? The US has been actively harming US interests for years now…
ThewFflegyy | 8 hours ago
honestly, if forced to choose between SK and the EU, the us may well choose SK at this point. they are absolutely critical for our mil ind complex, shipping, and tech industries.
prime_alki | 8 hours ago
The US will never toss SK to the side because they produce chips very critical to AI industry, what does EU produce? Wine and petrol vehicles? A relic thinking it’s important
rizakrko | 6 hours ago
EU is the only producer of machines that make advanced chips. Without Korean companies there less supply of chips, without ASML and Zeiss there is no chip industry.
Inside_Engine9466 | 2 hours ago
ASML follows U.S. government restrictions because a significant portion of its critical technology and IP depends on the U.S.
ThewFflegyy | 2 hours ago
eh, as others have pointed out ASML relies on american patents so even in a disentangling situation business with asml would likely continue. short of that the us has a lot of fabs already and would have enough time to build their own before they started to break down.
prime_alki | 6 hours ago
ASML can’t function without American IP, also American companies make the boatload of money from the whole chain and ASML is just one leg
rizakrko | 6 hours ago
One leg that can stop the whole show in an instant.
gimpwiz | 2 hours ago
ASML is cool but as a chip guy, it's really really weird to suddenly see Europeans know what ASML is and start bragging about it. ASML has been the main tool vendor for photolithography for quite a while, a lot of decisions are driven by what ASML is capable of doing, but ASML is exactly one company that's doing most of its work in one country. Unless you live in that country, its existence is extremely tangential to yours.
For what it's worth, ASML's work is heavily based on a lot of research done in the US. Which is why they've been complying on export controls.
Also, it took ASML like 20 years to get EUV done after promising and promising and promising and promising and promising that it'd be done earlier, so while they're riding high now they were a little bit grumped about for a very long time. They took so long they basically had to rename the technology, used to be called x-ray something-or-other.
Also ASML forced the remaining fab vendors to buy a chunk of it back about, eh, 13 ish years ago, give or take. So they're owned more globally than you may think.
Before EUV was finally commercialized, the fabs that kept being promised EUV instead went to dual-patterning and quad-patterning. "Advanced chips" needs to be defined specifically. The current leading nodes are all based on EUV, yes, and without it, it would be way more expensive to pattern dies, and it's possible node shrinks would have stalled out. But we ran the economy just fine on 2017-era process nodes, so, yknow, eh. It would suck but we'd manage. And realistically if ASML were to shutter, the remaining leading node fabs would spin up another tool vendor and recreate the tools ... after spending like fifty billion dollars on it and being real mad about it.
oulipo | 6 hours ago
"South Korea is important so can bully everyone and not give a shit about the murders in Ukraine"
okay nice american mentality you got there
Pretend_Handle_7639 | 7 hours ago
The same US that has loud isolationist voices on both ends of the horseshoe? You really can't see the potential for cutting the fat in places that aren't loyal enough to be worth spending American blood defending?
Azzagtot | 6 hours ago
You should stop calling it "help" when in reality is just trade.
shangriLaaaaaaa | 7 hours ago
Don't europe actively sell and have deals with pakistan a nation faar worse than Russia ?
Affectionate_One_700 | 6 hours ago
> pakistan a nation faar worse than Russia ?
Define "worse."
S_T_P | 6 hours ago
Both Saudis and Isn't Real rate lower than Pakistan.
rizakrko | 7 hours ago
Whatever Pakistan is doing is irrelevant compared to the russian invasion of Ukraine when viewed through the lense of European countries.
N-Yayoi | 7 hours ago
It is precisely this idea that led the entire Asia to ignore the needs of Europe. Because from a different perspective, you will find that no matter how many Europeans those Russians kill, it is meaningless to Asians. Reality is cold. Asia's mastery of industrial power surpasses any moral nonsense.
rizakrko | 7 hours ago
It's up to everyone to decide if they want to help Europe, noone is forced to do anything. But if you help russia be prepared to be sanctioned. This has nothing to do with morality or any other nonsense.
N-Yayoi | 6 hours ago
Sanctions against Asia? sure? Especially China, Japan, and South Korea?
What I am talking about is a very practical issue: you Europeans have no bargaining chips at all because your industrial strength is very weak. Playing this moral game instead of learning to be smarter will actually only harm Europe's already limited support from other regions.
If Japan and South Korea decide not to provide their industrial products to Europe, guess who will suffer more?
rizakrko | 6 hours ago
Yes, many companies across Asia were sanctioned for their support towards russia. If anything, EU holds the power to disconnect anyone - be it country or company - from SWIFT, which is by far the largest financial system in the world. Iran have lost about a third of it's GDP in just 3 years after it was put under heavier sanctions, most noticeable of which was SWIFT ban.
N-Yayoi | 6 hours ago
Then they are likely to switch to using Chinese yuan, and you would never want that to happen. Geopolitical strategy is a ruthless game that requires weighing the pros and cons of everything. Obviously, Europe has decided not to be foolish at the moment. No matter what a comment on Reddit says, Europe has no chips.
And we're talking about South Korea, not Iran. Do you think South Korea and Iran are equivalent? I guess few people would say that.
Meanwhile, Iran has certainly suffered losses, but compared to the cost of choosing to support Europe, this is simply insignificant - when the US Empire actually invades Iran and Europeans cannot and are unwilling (due to Europe's foolish moral decisions) to provide support for Iran, who else can provide support?
Oh, yes, surprisingly, it's Russia and China.
This is what I am actually trying to express: if Asia's problems are not Europe's problems, then Europe's problems are not Asia's problems either. Each country has its own interests, and there is no reason for South Korea or other Asian countries to sacrifice themselves for Ukraine.
Let's each play our own game, but please remember that you are the weak industrial side, don't pretend that you can threaten Asia.
rizakrko | 6 hours ago
Not sure why European countries would rush to defend Iran, they are not global police to defend oppressed or invaded people.
Europe is doing what is in Europe's interests. Helping Ukraine is in Europe's interests, hurting russia is in Europe's interests, hurting anyone who helps russia in in Europe's interests. Same as for every other country, you are correct in that. South Korea would do the exact same thing if European countries started sending aid to North Korea, not sure what is hard to grasp here.
WeirdKittens | 4 hours ago
There's a huge industrial country very close to that area that might be interested in cutting edge EUV machines and closer ties instead of being antagonized. If Russia is not SEAs problem then that other country shouldn't be Europe's problem should it?
See how acting in pure self interest can quickly lead to serious adverse effects? That's why politics is hard and alliances need work.
Azzagtot | 6 hours ago
So, it's bad when X but when same is done to you it's "we're not talking about that here!!!!"
These double standards are why europeans are despised.
rizakrko | 6 hours ago
Europeans care about Europeans first and foremost, they are not global police anymore. The exact same way every country has it's own interests first. Right now whatever is happening in Pakistan is hardly relevant for European security or prosperity, so naturally it's not comparable to whatever russia is doing from European POV.
d3vmax | 5 hours ago
Agree.
But why are Europeans still buying Russian energy? Directly and indirectly. They have reduced but still buying. The war is in their door steps. They should man up and provide Ukraine full protection on the west side so Ukraine can fight on east. Why did they not give planes and missles at start? They are always worried about red lines. It’s nearly 5 years now, Hypocrisy…
I want Ukraine to win but the Europeans should have done more and totally stop Russian imports of energy and tourists before lecturing everyone else…
They also lecture you on human rights etc but Europeans have been primarily responsible for untold suffering world wide with their colonisation, extraction of resources and 2 world wars and more. The Asian countries have had enough boss.
Affectionate_One_700 | 6 hours ago
> actively helping russia is another.
It's called doing business, making money.
Why shouldn't South Korea, or any other country, be able to make their own decisions about who they want to do business with?
> Companies and countries that do such activities are targeted by secondary sanctions
You seem to take it as natural that the US should be the moral arbiter of the world.
Well, Trump is fast destroying both America's moral authority and its technical/financial ability to impose sanctions.
> complete ban from western financial system.
Which are less essential every day. Of course, losing a single standard is a global inefficiency, but that's the natural consequence of America abusing its power.
rizakrko | 6 hours ago
Punishing countries and companies that help russia is in Europe's best interest, so they are doing just that. Everyone is free to do whatever they want though.
Affectionate_One_700 | 6 hours ago
Do you realize that Europe still buys billions of dollars of Russian natural gas every year? (I.e. sends that much money to the Russian treasury.)
rizakrko | 6 hours ago
Yes, they do. They also have deadlines set in place when this will stop. EU members have preferential status because they have a say in EU policies, which serves as a vector for most of Europe. Call this double standards, but that's how Europe operates. It's not like Korea treats Seoul and Warsaw equally just because they are capital cities.
Affectionate_One_700 | 6 hours ago
The point of the post seem to be to generate moral outrage against S Korea.
Most redditors, judging by the upvotes, are happy to climb on the bandwagon of outrage.
I am pointing out that it is two-faced nonsense.
I'm not sure whether you have any point.
rizakrko | 6 hours ago
Any country providing help to russia will catch hate towards itself. That's normal and that's how things should be. We should not normalize providing any help to a warmonger country that just today killed 20 people, including 4 children, with a missile strike.
Affectionate_One_700 | 5 hours ago
Are you a bot?
rizakrko | 5 hours ago
I am not.
shamblingman | 6 hours ago
EuroPeon countries are ALWAYS at war with each other in some form or another. For thousands of years the Europoors have been waging war against each other. If the US didn't build bases in every Europeon country, there would already be another world war. Even now, far right movements are gaining all over the region.
Asia doesn't give a shit about the economically and technologically irrelevant region that can't learn to behave for just a few decades.
MudOld239 | 4 hours ago
By every projection Korea will lose much more people by 2100 than Europe.
Cbrandel | 8 minutes ago
Brother your fent is wearing off, you're rambling again.
SugarBeefs | 4 hours ago
> Even now, far right movements are gaining all over the region.
Luckily the US is spared from that, right?
Oh, wait a minute...
snowice0 | 8 hours ago
What on earth are you talking about? What does Macron have to do with this?
This is coming up because the south Korean president is continuously making a big fuss over details of North Korean POWs being sent to South Korea
DeRpY_CUCUMBER | 8 hours ago
>big fuss over details of North Korean POWs being sent to South Korea
Ukraine made that promise they would keep that secret. Zelensky decided to break those promises, and make that information public.
I'm sure behind the scenes South Korea has been helpful to Ukraine, the least Ukraine could do in return is keep their word.
snowice0 | 8 hours ago
Do you have any proof that any promise like that was made?
You're sure? Okay
DeRpY_CUCUMBER | 7 hours ago
I mean its going to be incredibly hard for a common redditor to get you hard evidence of a non discloser agreement between governments, done in secret. But the South Korean president surely believes there was one Also, Ukraine quietly tried to apologize for the breech.
Why would you apologize if you don't believe you breeched the agreement? I sure as hell wouldn't apologize for a wrong I didn't do.
rizakrko | 7 hours ago
Current SK president have blamed Ukraine for russian invasion, that's about as much as you need to know about this guy and his stance towards Ukraine https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20220228004200315
snowice0 | 7 hours ago
Korean president said something and you take that as the truth? The article you linked even says that Ukraine denies such an agreement exists. They've even said it doesn't make sense that it would be kept a secret. Logically, it doesn't even make sense.
You don't need to prove if an "nda" existed you just need to figure out if it's a reasonable situation.
The best I can give RoK is that it's somehow a cultural thing. Apologizes come in many forms and I wouldn't be surprised if there was no apology hence they Korea says it wasn't "good enough" and why Sybiha calls it a "diplomatic misunderstanding" the alternatives are much worse for RoK imho
N-Yayoi | 7 hours ago
So, based on the same logic, why do we have to inherently believe that what the Ukrainians are saying is true? I remember very clearly that Europe regarded almost everything Zelensky said as truth, including his "criticisms" and "moral accusations" against many countries.
snowice0 | 7 hours ago
You don't that's why I said you just need to use all the other information to understand if the situation is reasonable. I remember president Lee being given a prison sentence suspended for lying.
N-Yayoi | 7 hours ago
Who was sentenced by? I remember that the previous South Korean president was literally a far right extremist who launched a military coup, and President Lee won support by opposing him.
No, I didn't actually say that President Lee's words must be the truth. What I'm actually saying is: why do people have double standards towards Ukrainians and Koreans?
Why are European issues more important than Asian issues?
snowice0 | 6 hours ago
What is the ROK issue here that I should worry about? Theyre not happy about how an apology was worded while also sending fuel to russia?
kou07 | 6 hours ago
I dont see any reasons for sk to make a fuss if they didnt think there was an nda, but i dont see any reasons in what the big countries do nowadays.
snowice0 | 6 hours ago
Heh. I don't see any reason why it would/should have been a secret. The current ROK government is seen as wanting closer ties to DPRK and has more reason to make a fuss about this. They detained and are investigating the South Korean advocates who went to Ukraine to support the DPRK soldiers in going to ROK. I wouldn't be surprised if ROK didn't even want to take these people anyway
MudOld239 | 5 hours ago
There were no such a promise unless you can prove it.
datums | 8 hours ago
South Korea is supporting Russia’s war of conquest against Ukraine because of something Emmanuel Macron said? What other aspects of Korean foreign policy does the French government get to dictate?
It’s like if Japan said something shitty about the EU, and the UK used that to justify supporting a Chinese invasion of South Korea.
DeRpY_CUCUMBER | 7 hours ago
>South Korea is supporting Russia’s war of conquest against Ukraine because of something Emmanuel Macron said?
If this tiny amount of fuel that wouldn't even last a day in Russia is considered supporting Russias war, then Europe is the largest supporter of Russia by buying 100s of billions of Euros of energy from Russia every single year, which allows Russia to pay its soldiers and workers vast sums of money to keep the war going.
The whole reason Russia is able to continue to recruit new soldiers is because the government can pay its soldiers more than an American soldier makes.
Spare me your fake moral outrage. Its borderline racist to expect Koreans to do something that Europeans are not.
jt004c | 8 hours ago
My god. You understand that Taiwan is a free and independent country strictly due to support from Western countries, right?
metioenunlio | 8 hours ago
Russia is North Korea's second closest ally. There are North Koreans actively fighting in the war. If you fail to see how this is an Asian security issue - let alone a Korean security issue - you are either delusional or lying.
dudeandco | 8 hours ago
Yeah and the color of money is still green, and the color of crude is black.
zxc123zxc123 | 6 hours ago
>Europeans expect Asian countries to give a shit about European security issues when Europeans don't give a shit about European or Asian security issues.
Even in 2026 with Trump in the office. Europeans are looking to the US to maintain global order and direct security support. Even now Europeans are mixed about their long term commitment to Ukraine's victory. Europeans politicians are still divided and bickering even as their populaces are unhappy with their reduced quality of life from inflation. They aren't in the mood to fight for Europe (it's a concept after all), escalate against Russia (to end the war), nor double down on sanctions nor truly weening themselves off Russia.
_RyanLarkin | 6 hours ago
The EU and the UK, minus Russia, when combined have the 2nd largest economy and, by budget, the 2nd largest military in the world.
Saying that they are, “weak, and dependent on the rest of the world is a statement devoid of facts and completely avoids all reality.
https://data.worldbank.org/?locations=US-EU-CN-GB](https://data.worldbank.org/?locations=US-EU-CN-GB)
https://eda.europa.eu/publications-and-data/defence-data](https://eda.europa.eu/publications-and-data/defence-data)
https://www.sipri.org/media/press-release/2026/global-military-spending-rise-continues-european-and-asian-expenditures-surge](https://www.sipri.org/media/press-release/2026/global-military-spending-rise-continues-european-and-asian-expenditures-surge)
https://www.iiss.org/research-paper/2025/05/defending-europe-without--the-united-states-costs-and-consequences/](https://www.iiss.org/research-paper/2025/05/defending-europe-without--the-united-states-costs-and-consequences/)
Super_Range45 | 2 hours ago
So does that mean they are reunifying with North Korea? Because Russia owes NK favors in dealing with South Korea for it's military assistance. Honestly this just sounds like dumb greed.
Upstairs_Eagle_4780 | 7 hours ago
Are you a bot?
Happy_Feet333 | 3 hours ago
>Europeans expect Asian countries to give a shit about European security issues when Europeans don't give a shit about Asian security issues.
Whelp, this is an outright lie. France and the UK, the European members of the Security Council, voted to authorize the use of force to defend South Korea when North Korea invaded in 1950.
And the UK, Netherlands, France, Greece, Belgium, even Luxembourg sent troops to fight on South Korea's behalf.
Pretend_Handle_7639 | 7 hours ago
They'll care when they get sanctioned and their food imports get cut 💅
Stanthemag | 5 hours ago
this is a bullshit post by a Ukrainian reporter (Ivan Khomenko). The fuel shipments were done by private commodity traders out of open commercial ports, NOT by the korean government.
(read the whole article and not just the first line lol)
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/traders-ship-refined-fuels-russia-south-korea-late-july-data-shows-2026-08-07/
MudOld239 | 5 hours ago
...that's obvious, and it changes nothing.
Mighty_Pen_1337 | 6 hours ago
Almost zero nations outside of the EU believe Russia has done anything wrong. NATO encroached to Russian boarders against all US agreements with Russia post Soviet collapse. Not only did NATO encroach eastward, they've crossed several red lines including threatening to incorporate Ukraine into NATO. Not only would the US not stand for any Russian bases on their border, they'd never allow the sanctioning of trade with willing third-parties. Everything happening in Ukraine is 100% on NATO and propping up a puppet government in Ukraine.
motorbikler | 5 hours ago
> Almost zero nations outside of the EU believe Russia has done anything wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_and_intergovernmental_reactions_to_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Take a look at the picture on the right showing the nations that have condemned the invasion. The UN votes are just below.
SugarBeefs | 4 hours ago
> NATO encroached to Russian boarders against all US agreements with Russia post Soviet collapse.
These agreements don't exist. Russia shills like you always point to some vague 'promise' or 'agreement' that either never existed or is being fundamentally misrepresented.
> Not only did NATO encroach eastward
You mean all the nations directly to the west of Russia that are sick and tired of having to deal with Russian aggression and imperialism throughout the centuries didn't know half how quick to send in their application to join the anti-Russia neighbourhood watch?
Wow, that's crazy, dude. Can't believe why countries like:
Finland (1939)
Estonia (1939 and 1945)
Latvia (1939 and 1945)
Lithuania (1939 and 1945)
Poland (1939 and 1945)
Czechia (1968)
Slovakia (1968)
Hungary (1956)
Romania (1940)
would want to be part of NATO.
Truly inconceivable. Real headscratcher. I can't make any sense of it!
NavyDean | 9 hours ago
This is extremely embarrassing for South Korea and the Korean people.
It makes them look like petulant children willing to cry over any small thing. This is their childish tantrum over the world finding out they were taking Ukraine's NK POW's.
If South Korean leadership doesn't stop being so idiotic. They are going to wake up one day against a North Korean military, experienced and tested through drone warfare in Ukraine.
South Korea should have been sending weapons to Ukraine in exchange for advancements in drone technology.
Instead now South Korea is getting left behind diplomatically and militarily.
gavruche | 8 hours ago
How is this any different from EU doing business with genocide countries like Israel? lol
Germany and other countries are still selling weapons to Israel so they can murder children, so you better chill with the rhetoric
Brushies10-4 | 7 hours ago
Russia at no point had reason to think Ukraine was attacking them, Israel was literally attacked by Hamas. This is a stupidly false equivalence. Russia and Hamas are the aggressors in both equations.
dobik | 8 hours ago
They care the same about this war like you care about the war in Ethiopia.
ThewFflegyy | 8 hours ago
yup. they just can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that the world doesnt revolve around them.
MudOld239 | 5 hours ago
Then Korea should stip begging for North Korean POWs, do you agree?
ThewFflegyy | 2 hours ago
why is that relevant? they arnt acting like the center of the world by asking for what they view to be their own citizens to be returned to them lmfao.
ThewFflegyy | 8 hours ago
quite the opposite, id say it shows that they are willing to tell Europe to go fuck themselves. thats a sign of strength imo.
MudOld239 | 5 hours ago
Oh really? Let us see what happens next.
ThewFflegyy | 2 hours ago
im gonna go out on a limb here and say nothing
DateMasamusubi | 8 hours ago
North Korean forces getting training is not new. Throughout the Cold War, they were more battle hardened than the South save for during the Vietnam War as they sent troops everywhere like Angola.
Korean law prohibits sales of weapons to a country in active conflict. If Ukraine bought some weapons before the war, not a problem.
spidereater | 9 hours ago
I was thinking this is embarrassing for Russia. Who would have thought Russia, of all places, would be importing fuel. Let alone smuggling it.
ThewFflegyy | 8 hours ago
I mean, if the price is right why not? the us for example is the largest producer of oil on earth and imports a shit load of fuel.
dudeandco | 8 hours ago
Try to track they are importing refined product, likely swapping crude for fuel...
Yes Russia has lost refining capacity.
dudeandco | 8 hours ago
So the whole damn world is supposed just be hand in hand with the Trump Bibi regime? Not sure this happens if SOH is still open...
Regardless the whole world is out for thier own intrests, the US thought at best they could fuck over China with these crude flows, turns out China was more than prepared.
Do I blame SK for getting it's own energy and paving its own path, no?
Should we blame Japan for selling of all the US bonds to fund it's future, probably not.