Im interested in this in the same way that I’m interested in dissecting the psychology of the SS. Fascinating, morbid stuff.
Edit: correction, Wehrmacht, not SS. An excellent read all around, I gotta find a way to get this article to my mom. A very thoughtful discussion of the banality of evil, which people consistently underestimate in my experience.
I think the author is really onto something with their idea for an organization to support agents in leaving ICE and speaking out against their brutality.
I hope, going forward, we don't need a 7,000 word piece on the moral quandaries ICE agents face, and instead punish all of them who served.
I think the article sums it up nicely in the beginning:
>"As Childress transported the man with the broken leg to the Border Patrol station, it struck him that he was about to send someone many people would consider a “model immigrant” to potential doom. Nevertheless,..."
Yes, nevertheless, these people many of whom are Black or people of color who are living in communities with few economic opportunities, nevertheless these people did absolutely brutal illegal things. I hope post blue wave we don't feel the need to consider the feelings of the secret police. I do not care. I will never care.
New Yorker has a decent record of publishing lengthy pieces on moral quandaries that eventually come to be a standard by which major events are judged. Maybe this is the start of another round.
Most people don't quit their jobs even when asked to do something unethical or even illegal.
For example, I don't think anyone involved in the killing of Alex Pretti quit or even considered quitting.
Even outside of the context of immigration enforcement, has anyone quit in protest over the various attempts by the DOJ to frame innocent Americans for made up crimes (such as what they did to David Hearn)?
Thats why whistleblowers in general are so rare; most of us just keep our heads down and their mouths closed. Even if we don't like what we are doing, we prefer the steady paycheck. The people described in the article are arguably the exception that prove the rule, people who are willing to walk away from a job that they don't believe in.
Plenty of people resign from government agencies that are tasked with immoral acts. I personally know several. But you won't know it unless you're friends.
You'll just see a LinkedIn post saying something like "After eight years working in the DOJ cyber crime unit, I'm happy to announce that I've taken a position as deputy CISO with Blahblah Inc!"
Remember that lots of government employees could be making more money in the private sector. If the mission of an agency changes, people absolutely jump ship.
This is precisely what Hannah Arendt meant when she talked about the "banality of evil"
"For when I speak of the banality of evil, I do so only on the strictly factual level, pointing to a phenomenon which stared one in the face at the trial. Eichmann was not Iago and not Macbeth, and nothing would have been farther from his mind than to determine with Richard III 'to prove a villain.' Except for an extraordinary diligence in looking out for his personal advancement, he had no motives at all… He merely, to put the matter colloquially, never realized what he was doing… It was sheer thoughtlessness—something by no means identical with stupidity—that predisposed him to become one of the greatest criminals of that period. And if this is 'banal' and even funny, if with the best will in the world one cannot extract any diabolical or demonic profundity from Eichmann, this is still far from calling it commonplace… That such remoteness from reality and such thoughtlessness can wreak more havoc than all the evil instincts taken together which, perhaps, are inherent in man—that was, in fact, the lesson one could learn in Jerusalem." - Hannah Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil
Many DOJ attorneys have, in fact, resigned in protest (or been fired) in the last two years, after refusing to follow what they believed were unethical or illegal orders.
Law and order is still a thing. Many workers, both prosecution and enforcement, have a sense of fulfillment enforcing the laws our congress critters pass. We can’t not enforce laws or codify them so they aren’t laws. Are we choosing which laws we don’t enforce now?
yes, this is exactly why ICE agents need to be prosecuted. Entering someone’s home without a warrant is illegal. Assaulting a legal observer is illegal. It is illegal to point your gun in the face of someone just sitting in their car. These are all illegal acts that need to be punished. I have seen and experienced ICE do all of these things.
You can enforce laws while also not being barbaric and kidnapping, trafficking, and locking people in concentration camps for what's essentially a misdemeanor.
EDIT: to the far-right loser that tried responding to all these second-level comments, including mine -- you're shadowbanned, lol. None of your comments are showing up. Log out to see what I say is true.
lifayt | 23 hours ago
They don’t quit in protest because at least some of them are doing what they love.
nopingmywayout | 22 hours ago
Im interested in this in the same way that I’m interested in dissecting the psychology of the SS. Fascinating, morbid stuff.
Edit: correction, Wehrmacht, not SS. An excellent read all around, I gotta find a way to get this article to my mom. A very thoughtful discussion of the banality of evil, which people consistently underestimate in my experience. I think the author is really onto something with their idea for an organization to support agents in leaving ICE and speaking out against their brutality.
HarveyPeligro | 23 hours ago
I hope, going forward, we don't need a 7,000 word piece on the moral quandaries ICE agents face, and instead punish all of them who served.
I think the article sums it up nicely in the beginning:
>"As Childress transported the man with the broken leg to the Border Patrol station, it struck him that he was about to send someone many people would consider a “model immigrant” to potential doom. Nevertheless,..."
Yes, nevertheless, these people many of whom are Black or people of color who are living in communities with few economic opportunities, nevertheless these people did absolutely brutal illegal things. I hope post blue wave we don't feel the need to consider the feelings of the secret police. I do not care. I will never care.
IABN | 21 hours ago
New Yorker has a decent record of publishing lengthy pieces on moral quandaries that eventually come to be a standard by which major events are judged. Maybe this is the start of another round.
pal002 | 21 hours ago
You’re talking Arendt?
IABN | 16 hours ago
Hershey and Carson came to mind first.
idfk78 | 16 hours ago
"I was enforcing the rules of a game I had won simply by being born on the right side of a line."
I wish more ppl acknowledged that where you're from, your immigration or citizenship status, is literally just a birth lottery.
[OP] Broad_Cartoonist_824 | 21 hours ago
Sorry i forgot to put the archive link. Here it is- https://archive.li/Qv0Wk
Chief_Kief | 12 hours ago
Thank you
tuki | 21 hours ago
the banality of evil
BaconJovial | 21 hours ago
Most people don't quit their jobs even when asked to do something unethical or even illegal. For example, I don't think anyone involved in the killing of Alex Pretti quit or even considered quitting.
Even outside of the context of immigration enforcement, has anyone quit in protest over the various attempts by the DOJ to frame innocent Americans for made up crimes (such as what they did to David Hearn)?
Thats why whistleblowers in general are so rare; most of us just keep our heads down and their mouths closed. Even if we don't like what we are doing, we prefer the steady paycheck. The people described in the article are arguably the exception that prove the rule, people who are willing to walk away from a job that they don't believe in.
HarveyPeligro | 21 hours ago
Six MN federal prosecutors resigned after being asked to investigate Renee Good’s wife.
some people still have spines
BaconJovial | 21 hours ago
Good to know!
arrroganteggplant | 16 hours ago
Much of the DOJ folks worth a damn left years ago already. In protest.
Not everyone is a coward.
TrueBirch | 13 hours ago
Plenty of people resign from government agencies that are tasked with immoral acts. I personally know several. But you won't know it unless you're friends. You'll just see a LinkedIn post saying something like "After eight years working in the DOJ cyber crime unit, I'm happy to announce that I've taken a position as deputy CISO with Blahblah Inc!"
Remember that lots of government employees could be making more money in the private sector. If the mission of an agency changes, people absolutely jump ship.
ReefaManiack42o | 15 hours ago
This is precisely what Hannah Arendt meant when she talked about the "banality of evil"
"For when I speak of the banality of evil, I do so only on the strictly factual level, pointing to a phenomenon which stared one in the face at the trial. Eichmann was not Iago and not Macbeth, and nothing would have been farther from his mind than to determine with Richard III 'to prove a villain.' Except for an extraordinary diligence in looking out for his personal advancement, he had no motives at all… He merely, to put the matter colloquially, never realized what he was doing… It was sheer thoughtlessness—something by no means identical with stupidity—that predisposed him to become one of the greatest criminals of that period. And if this is 'banal' and even funny, if with the best will in the world one cannot extract any diabolical or demonic profundity from Eichmann, this is still far from calling it commonplace… That such remoteness from reality and such thoughtlessness can wreak more havoc than all the evil instincts taken together which, perhaps, are inherent in man—that was, in fact, the lesson one could learn in Jerusalem." - Hannah Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil
shoshpd | 46 minutes ago
Many DOJ attorneys have, in fact, resigned in protest (or been fired) in the last two years, after refusing to follow what they believed were unethical or illegal orders.
LadybugGirltheFirst | 19 hours ago
Because everyone has a price, that’s why.
ennuyeguy | 21 hours ago
Law and order is still a thing. Many workers, both prosecution and enforcement, have a sense of fulfillment enforcing the laws our congress critters pass. We can’t not enforce laws or codify them so they aren’t laws. Are we choosing which laws we don’t enforce now?
HarveyPeligro | 21 hours ago
yes, this is exactly why ICE agents need to be prosecuted. Entering someone’s home without a warrant is illegal. Assaulting a legal observer is illegal. It is illegal to point your gun in the face of someone just sitting in their car. These are all illegal acts that need to be punished. I have seen and experienced ICE do all of these things.
SaintOrJannikSinner | 21 hours ago
You can enforce laws while also not being barbaric and kidnapping, trafficking, and locking people in concentration camps for what's essentially a misdemeanor.
EDIT: to the far-right loser that tried responding to all these second-level comments, including mine -- you're shadowbanned, lol. None of your comments are showing up. Log out to see what I say is true.
saltporksuit | 20 hours ago
Just following orders, are you?
Moistcowparts69 | 15 hours ago
I mean, I think they were trying to form words but it was just more appealing to lick that boot and things got confusing 😂
Illustrious-Ad5575 | 16 hours ago
Good lord. Your ignorance and amorality are noted.
droogarth | 15 hours ago
LE absolutely, frequently and commonly choose which laws to enforce or not to enforce.