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We’re all paying for his xAI and Twitter debt. Same with all those spacex purchased teslas that went unsold. We literally are paying for this man to live while he fucked the country.
Do you think any American who has a retirement fund with fidelity, vanguard or Schwab individually picks stocks? Thats not how it works at all. If they selected stocks on their own they wouldn’t need a retirement fund they’d just be a regular investor buying and trading. So a statement implying that every individual American is a sucker for investing their retirement fund in a company like spaceX is just lazy and inaccurate.
Only way this country will wake up is with significant pain. We’re a bunch of sleepwalking idiots. Income inequality is worse than it was during the Gilded Age. I’ve had enough. Personal position.
Goddamn this is so true and sad. We truly are a nation of sleepwalking idiots. It blows my mind the basic shit that Americans don’t know. The average American has no idea how basically anything works. AI Will exacerbate this problem exponentially
So you don’t know how 401ks work is what you are saying?
What American with a retirement fund is actively selecting stocks to invest in? Americans with retirement funds “selecting South African oil salesman’s stock” is not how any of this works.
If you want to actually be mad at someone it’s the institutions with control over their 401ks not individual americans. Thank you for your worthless comment and contributing to outrage against ppl who have already been screwed. You truly are doing God’s work spreading your ignorance/s
It’s concerning to tie the fate of American economy to an openly practicing neo nazi with temper of a toddler.
Bird bird bird bird is the word bird bird bird bird bird bird word bird is the word bird
I’m trying to figure out how I can explain the absurdity in economical terms whilst remaining quite calm and balanced.
But sod it - this is quite frankly ridiculous. The fact trackers allow this obvious scam is insane. You don’t need to be a financial whizz to see that a company that hardly makes any profit is worth the price people are paying. It’s utterly insane and a complete grift by a man who quite frankly should be in front of The Hague.
It’s pretty simple, just filter the top 5 most valuable companies by value, and then compare that same list when filtered by revenue/profit. Tesla and SpaceX won’t be there. Despite making no profit, it’s somehow one of the most valuable companies in the world. The market is literally just based on vibes, hope and dreams now.
Tesla/spaxeX values is not based on what product they currently make, but what product they might make in the future. As long as Elon can keep the hype train going then the money keeps flowing
Yeah, practical things like making Facebook ads dupe people into clicking 2% more instead of rockets, satellite internet available anywhere in the world, electric vehicles, utility scale battery storage... Oh wait no, that's not right.
I love Dyson swarm talk as much as the next futurist but if you ask the armchair engineers over in r/askscience they’ll berate you and say it’s impossible and not a question worth asking. So maybe he’s onto something, maybe he’s just an idealist who inspires rich and powerful people.
Time will tell, but this market is unfortunately nowhere in reality.
Honestly I think we are just seeing what happens when there is unprecedented economic growth paired with a lack of any true recession in over a decade. COVID set some things back, but ultimately did not have the “pruning” effect recessions typically have, as it was an artificial recession that was artificially over corrected vastly in favor of business.
When you have unprecedented and unmitigated growth, people don’t have a place to park money so they invest it, and there’s a knock on effect where there is an immense supply of money that wants to invest in the next big thing but not enough viable options.
It’s quite literally all fake. Similar to a Ponzi scheme, once people start selling, there’s nothing actually backing the stock, so it all comes crashing down.
This is why I’m primarily invested in dividend yielding stocks with a strong history of consistent returns. In all likelihood this is all going to explode at some point, even if I have no idea when. When that happens, companies that provide staples of modern life, like cell phones, aren’t going anywhere, so the companies that have high dividend yields will continue to have relatively high yields.
This won’t get me rich, but it won’t make me poor either.
It’s why I’m primarily invested in small cap value funds, and large cap funds that screen out for just this hogwash in my taxable and Roth accounts. But unfortunately there may be no way to avoid these eventually touching my and a lot of other people’s 403b/457b/401k (whatever) accounts, even with the S&P thankfully not relaxing rules the way Nasdaq did. I’m frankly surprised no one has launched an S&P 500 mutual that just excludes anything Elon /AI. Were it an option it’s where I’d park my 403b large cap.
Well they’ll be left holding the bag because I guarantee there are other space mining ventures to come, or Elon will just use the market money to buy the competition where he can. But the competition won’t just go away.
Company level profitability is not always good. Profitable unit economics is very important. But if you are investing in future growth that can be very good. If you are very profitable at the company level it means you don't have any worth spending money on.
Take apple. Great company for the next five years but their biggest innovation in the last decade was an overpriced charging cable and some headphones. They are trading at 36 years worth of earnings. What products are going to carry them for the next 36 years? They only have another few years of incremental improvements to their iphones left. What happens when the next generation technology leapfrogs them? If Tesla is successful with FSD/robotaxi, the aggregate earnings over that same 36 year period would be far higher than Apple. Amazon reinvested in itself for years and they ended up created AWS, one of the best businesses of all time.
So no, I'm not saying burn cash all the time but there is a huge difference between spending money on profitable business endeavors that are growing and having a good legacy business and nothing to spend it on.
I feel like your comment suggests that investment in potential despite feasibility or actual execution or production is okay. Not saying that’s right or wrong, it’s just a major paradigm shift that involves risk that could financially impact millions of people.
What it shows is that the era of "passive" index investing might be coming to an end. SpaceX is the first but won't be the last to use the "fast entry" rules to be able to quickly be included in the NASDAQ-100. End result is that NASDAQ-100 funds could possibly under perform other indexes that don't have fast entry rules.
I’m not even an American, but our trackers are investing in this grift. Utterly bonkers.
We have many British companies which should actually be worth more than SpaceX, but we’ll forget them and invest in some billionaire’s scheme to increase Tesla profits.
He privatized space launches… and his ai is pretty strong. And he’s got a monopoly on the closest region of space for internet distribution and the best bandwidth.
Really? Because this article is literally about Musk succeeding in getting rules altered so that his company would be allowed into a composite it wasn't qualified for to ensure investment funds would be forced to acquire shares, and people with passive investment strategies would be forced to be exposed to SpaceX volatility whether they know it or not.
I highly recommend people actually read the article, and the associated articles as this has been widely covered in economic publications due to it's radical departure from norms.
If everyone is an idiot and they buy an overpriced company isn't that just the value in reality? The value is whatever you can get for it today as set by the market.
Keep in mind that taking a take with a fairly low float and extrapolating to total enterprise value is just one way of looking a the value. Supply and demand is the real arbiter here and right now there isn't enough stock to go around. People want to own a piece of the company, it's that simple.
Tesla makes billions a quarter, you can go drive their cars, you can use its ai, you can even use satellite internet. Where is the scam? There are self driving Teslas, there are electric semis, he has battery packs he sells to various countries. What is the scam? Speculation?
If spacex were to become successful, there will also be an endless stream of people saying that they were somehow prevented from participation in that success.
It was nationalized - we had NASA for decades and they took humans to the moon. They also produced a ton of incredible research and technology along the way. It's one of the greatest returns on investment of all time, if one insists on viewing it that way.
The United States decided to pivot away from that and replace it with corporitization, for reasons that should be evident.
Dude. Where have you been in the last 20 years. USA privatize not nationalize. We let these large industries run until they need bailing then we step in and pay the bill and reset the breaker. It’s the private and national dynamics that dictate our government. This is it unless we as a people veto government and conceive a new one. It doesn’t matter if the left or the right is in charge. American corporations will dictate our ways of life. The American government is there for big business and not the people. Capitalism won and is carrying on with business and will manifest itself to its ultimate end.
I'm not saying nationalize the company. I'm saying nationalizes his shares.
I realize what I'm saying and you're going to come back and say well that's not possible and I will tell you that I had ice helicopters flying over my house 24/7 for 2 months last fall and watched as legal residents were beaten in the street a few blocks self from my extremely nice condo in an extremely nice area.
The word "fix" implies something is broken or otherwise wrong, but the current system is setup fine as is. If you don't like SpaceX for the risk, don't buy the stock.
You're not arguing anything, you're just making silly statements and expecting people to take you seriously. "SpaceX is a private company who was contracted by the government to perform services, and because we contracted them to do things therefore we should own them."
That's not an argument so much as a statement of bitterness toward SpaceX's success aimed in the direction of Elon Musk.
You attributed this to bitterness about Elon Musk as if I personally beef with him. And, I don't.
However, he's blurred incredible lines between government and personal interest right down to his DOGE kids opening backdoors to government data to Russia.
NASA specifically wanted SpaceX to exist as a competitor to existing launchers - and so gave them contracts to help with that.
What in the world would nationalization accomplish? Beyond subjecting the world’s biggest rocket company to the same budget stranglehold Nasa’s been in for decades?
I’ve still yet to hear someone even give their doomer prediction about it. Like no one is willing to actually explain how and what this whole supposed fiasco will look like. The company is big and has a ton of assets, IPs, and monopolist moats. Even if it’s overvalued, it’s not going to somehow be worth so little that it actually causes some kind of chain reaction, causing the stock market to plunge into a depression. This is all so stupid.
What moats? It’s social media and AI company are losing money hand over fist. Both X and Grok are well behind other platforms in the same industries.
Their rocket portion is getting competition from Bezos. Maybe 30% of the country loves Musk, but as many or more sees him as a national security risk.
It’s not hard to give a doomer prediction. It’s a lot harder to validate its market value. If Musk ends up rolling Tesla in to it, well another company that is faltering and losing market share.
Rules ate being changes to get some of these companies into these indexes held by passive investors. It’s crooked and not hard to point out how it’s problematic
If you have a 401k, make sure it's invested in the s&p500 if there is an option for that. If there isnt, switch to bonds or money markets. You can weather this crash and get in at a better point
Gotta but me some Rocketlab, these clowns can eat gravel. The grift is getting pretty ridiculous. Then again, institutional investors are gaming it, too. Including mine
Unless you're all in on QQQ or buying the IPO itself, as long as you have diversified index funds, the individual impact on your portfolio will be pretty minimal.
However, the small number of insiders who are involved with SpaceX will all get absurdly wealthy.
I didn't say it was forced into S&P 500. But it will be when the year(?) wait expires. I talked about the person quoted who said they were forced into it. You're responding to something I didn't say.
There are bond index funds, too. As well as annuities and stable value funds. I can't believe someone as smart as you claim to be doesn't know that.
Agree. I never said it was smart to short SpaceX, just that they could. You're again responding to something I didn't say.
Pure supposition.
I know exactly what I'm talking about and am not shilling for anyone. But just keep disputing points I didn't make if it makes you feel better. You're so angry that you didn't even understand what I said.
Annuities in 401k is something being rolled out in 2027 but not currently available. Not all 401ks offer bond index funds. And stable value funds exist but provide nearly zero return.
It's not unreasonable that people don't want rules bent for overvalued companies with no revenue to force their way into index funds before having time to prove themselves.
It's also not reasonable to say "Well if you don't like SpaceX you can just invest in funds that return beneath the rate of inflation".
It's forced in that it's a false choice. You either let Elon rob you, or don't participate (by moving to low return options you mentioned). Both are to your detriment, and avoiding his robbery hurts you as an individual more.
That's great. Never heard of TIAA and 75% of the 401k market is controlled by 4 companies. TIAA isn't one of them. And you can't just shop around, you have to use who your employer partners with. Which for nearly half of American workers, is Fidelity. Including myself.
I don't understand why you're unable to process that workers have highly limited agency in 401k decisions. Which makes what NASDAQ and SpaceX did even more egregious.
Economics-ModTeam | 12 hours ago
Submissions tenuously related to economics, light on economic analysis, or from perspectives other than those of economists will be removed. This will keep /r/economics distinct from the many related subreddits. Further explanation.
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If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.
robustofilth | 20 hours ago
Americans wake up to be royally fucked over by rich South African man who keeps selling them snake oil.
Words words words words and more words for the silly rules that exist on this sub. Extra words.
grandmawaffles | 16 hours ago
We’re all paying for his xAI and Twitter debt. Same with all those spacex purchased teslas that went unsold. We literally are paying for this man to live while he fucked the country.
Danktizzle | 20 hours ago
You would think we would learn. They aren’t on our side.
mooch9 | 15 hours ago
It's late stage capitalism using divide and conquer to distract us from the real enemies, of course
Krinder | 13 hours ago
Do you know how a retirement fund works?
Danktizzle | 6 hours ago
I also know how pump and dumps work
Krinder | an hour ago
Do you think any American who has a retirement fund with fidelity, vanguard or Schwab individually picks stocks? Thats not how it works at all. If they selected stocks on their own they wouldn’t need a retirement fund they’d just be a regular investor buying and trading. So a statement implying that every individual American is a sucker for investing their retirement fund in a company like spaceX is just lazy and inaccurate.
kravisha | 14 hours ago
There's no fate awful enough for him
Financial-Sweet-4648 | 17 hours ago
We need the lesson. I hope it fucking hurts, when it finally arrives.
Momoselfie | 17 hours ago
It will. Musk will be fine though.
Krinder | 13 hours ago
You hope Americans with retirement funds are hurt? Do you know how retirement funds work?
Financial-Sweet-4648 | 13 hours ago
Only way this country will wake up is with significant pain. We’re a bunch of sleepwalking idiots. Income inequality is worse than it was during the Gilded Age. I’ve had enough. Personal position.
Kramerica_CEO | 13 hours ago
Goddamn this is so true and sad. We truly are a nation of sleepwalking idiots. It blows my mind the basic shit that Americans don’t know. The average American has no idea how basically anything works. AI Will exacerbate this problem exponentially
Krinder | 13 hours ago
So you don’t know how 401ks work is what you are saying?
What American with a retirement fund is actively selecting stocks to invest in? Americans with retirement funds “selecting South African oil salesman’s stock” is not how any of this works.
If you want to actually be mad at someone it’s the institutions with control over their 401ks not individual americans. Thank you for your worthless comment and contributing to outrage against ppl who have already been screwed. You truly are doing God’s work spreading your ignorance/s
robustofilth | 9 hours ago
God work 🤣
pulse7 | 15 hours ago
Snake oil is a bit hyperbolic
WonderChemical5089 | 20 hours ago
It’s concerning to tie the fate of American economy to an openly practicing neo nazi with temper of a toddler.
Bird bird bird bird is the word bird bird bird bird bird bird word bird is the word bird
CrumDelicious | 19 hours ago
Why would he call Vernon Unsworth a "pedo guy" when he shot down his sub rescue idea in 2018?
WonderChemical5089 | 19 hours ago
It’s always projection with these guys.
StrongLoan9751 | 17 hours ago
Always.
SmashedWorm64 | 20 hours ago
I’m trying to figure out how I can explain the absurdity in economical terms whilst remaining quite calm and balanced.
But sod it - this is quite frankly ridiculous. The fact trackers allow this obvious scam is insane. You don’t need to be a financial whizz to see that a company that hardly makes any profit is worth the price people are paying. It’s utterly insane and a complete grift by a man who quite frankly should be in front of The Hague.
AffordableTimeTravel | 20 hours ago
It’s pretty simple, just filter the top 5 most valuable companies by value, and then compare that same list when filtered by revenue/profit. Tesla and SpaceX won’t be there. Despite making no profit, it’s somehow one of the most valuable companies in the world. The market is literally just based on vibes, hope and dreams now.
American_PissAnt | 18 hours ago
Tesla/spaxeX values is not based on what product they currently make, but what product they might make in the future. As long as Elon can keep the hype train going then the money keeps flowing
Strazdiscordia | 18 hours ago
Just needs to jump around with another chainsaw and things should be just fine. Just as long as he doesnt “give his heart to the people” again
OffalSmorgasbord | 18 hours ago
Sucking up capital that could actually be used to make something practical...
crowcawer | 17 hours ago
It is making something practical.
A practical joke out of the SEC.
aliph | 17 hours ago
Yeah, practical things like making Facebook ads dupe people into clicking 2% more instead of rockets, satellite internet available anywhere in the world, electric vehicles, utility scale battery storage... Oh wait no, that's not right.
schacks | 12 hours ago
And you know it’s just fluff and hype when the prospect has references to a Kardashev type II event as a result of the IPO.
AffordableTimeTravel | 5 hours ago
I love Dyson swarm talk as much as the next futurist but if you ask the armchair engineers over in r/askscience they’ll berate you and say it’s impossible and not a question worth asking. So maybe he’s onto something, maybe he’s just an idealist who inspires rich and powerful people.
Time will tell, but this market is unfortunately nowhere in reality.
JamesLahey08 | 17 hours ago
Tesla did an amazing job but their stock price doesn't make sense. Same as SpaceX. Everything else Elon touched is cursed
7ddlysuns | 19 hours ago
Don’t forget a lot of bots. Elon clearly has something that acts when prices get too low to juice em
Hot_Most5332 | 18 hours ago
Honestly I think we are just seeing what happens when there is unprecedented economic growth paired with a lack of any true recession in over a decade. COVID set some things back, but ultimately did not have the “pruning” effect recessions typically have, as it was an artificial recession that was artificially over corrected vastly in favor of business.
When you have unprecedented and unmitigated growth, people don’t have a place to park money so they invest it, and there’s a knock on effect where there is an immense supply of money that wants to invest in the next big thing but not enough viable options.
It’s quite literally all fake. Similar to a Ponzi scheme, once people start selling, there’s nothing actually backing the stock, so it all comes crashing down.
This is why I’m primarily invested in dividend yielding stocks with a strong history of consistent returns. In all likelihood this is all going to explode at some point, even if I have no idea when. When that happens, companies that provide staples of modern life, like cell phones, aren’t going anywhere, so the companies that have high dividend yields will continue to have relatively high yields.
This won’t get me rich, but it won’t make me poor either.
This is not investment advice.
Ticksdonthavelymph | 17 hours ago
It’s why I’m primarily invested in small cap value funds, and large cap funds that screen out for just this hogwash in my taxable and Roth accounts. But unfortunately there may be no way to avoid these eventually touching my and a lot of other people’s 403b/457b/401k (whatever) accounts, even with the S&P thankfully not relaxing rules the way Nasdaq did. I’m frankly surprised no one has launched an S&P 500 mutual that just excludes anything Elon /AI. Were it an option it’s where I’d park my 403b large cap.
SmashedWorm64 | 20 hours ago
I’m sure this is a long term strategy 😂
OffalSmorgasbord | 18 hours ago
Red hats tell me it's because of all the gold asteroids SpaceX will be mining. Not that they have a plan for that...
Kramerica_CEO | 13 hours ago
Space data centers is the excuse I heard from a red hat
OffalSmorgasbord | 5 hours ago
Ahh, yes, that's the other one.
AffordableTimeTravel | 18 hours ago
Well they’ll be left holding the bag because I guarantee there are other space mining ventures to come, or Elon will just use the market money to buy the competition where he can. But the competition won’t just go away.
aliph | 17 hours ago
Company level profitability is not always good. Profitable unit economics is very important. But if you are investing in future growth that can be very good. If you are very profitable at the company level it means you don't have any worth spending money on.
Take apple. Great company for the next five years but their biggest innovation in the last decade was an overpriced charging cable and some headphones. They are trading at 36 years worth of earnings. What products are going to carry them for the next 36 years? They only have another few years of incremental improvements to their iphones left. What happens when the next generation technology leapfrogs them? If Tesla is successful with FSD/robotaxi, the aggregate earnings over that same 36 year period would be far higher than Apple. Amazon reinvested in itself for years and they ended up created AWS, one of the best businesses of all time.
So no, I'm not saying burn cash all the time but there is a huge difference between spending money on profitable business endeavors that are growing and having a good legacy business and nothing to spend it on.
AffordableTimeTravel | 5 hours ago
I feel like your comment suggests that investment in potential despite feasibility or actual execution or production is okay. Not saying that’s right or wrong, it’s just a major paradigm shift that involves risk that could financially impact millions of people.
Only-Worldliness2006 | 19 hours ago
What it shows is that the era of "passive" index investing might be coming to an end. SpaceX is the first but won't be the last to use the "fast entry" rules to be able to quickly be included in the NASDAQ-100. End result is that NASDAQ-100 funds could possibly under perform other indexes that don't have fast entry rules.
LV426acheron | 16 hours ago
S&P 500 didn't change their rules.
Other broad based index funds like VTI will only have SpaceX as a tiny fraction of its holdings.
NASDAQ is a special case because they are a stock exchange as well as an index so they're incentivized to include it.
This won't destroy passive index investing though.
It's just a way for Elon and his buddies to get even more rich.
supercali45 | 20 hours ago
Muskrat and Trump are in bed together
SmashedWorm64 | 20 hours ago
I’m not even an American, but our trackers are investing in this grift. Utterly bonkers.
We have many British companies which should actually be worth more than SpaceX, but we’ll forget them and invest in some billionaire’s scheme to increase Tesla profits.
TommyROAR | 17 hours ago
Are there many British companies deploying satellite internet at a better margin or with higher growth potential than SpaceX?
SmashedWorm64 | 11 hours ago
No but Rolls Royce make some cracking mini nuclear reactors. They also actually make a profit.
r4ndoM_doGmagenshin | 18 hours ago
He privatized space launches… and his ai is pretty strong. And he’s got a monopoly on the closest region of space for internet distribution and the best bandwidth.
kravisha | 14 hours ago
Every financial institution that signed onto this should burn
gyozafish | 18 hours ago
You sound like someone who didn’t notice Amazon barely making any profit for years yet somehow not ending up worthless.
uber_neutrino | 19 hours ago
> You don’t need to be a financial whizz to see that a company that hardly makes any profit is worth the price people are paying.
People decide what it's worth through their purchase behavior. It's not that complicated.
wsb_crazytrader | 19 hours ago
It’s being added in investment funds that people have no control over.
Barnyard_Rich | 19 hours ago
Really? Because this article is literally about Musk succeeding in getting rules altered so that his company would be allowed into a composite it wasn't qualified for to ensure investment funds would be forced to acquire shares, and people with passive investment strategies would be forced to be exposed to SpaceX volatility whether they know it or not.
I highly recommend people actually read the article, and the associated articles as this has been widely covered in economic publications due to it's radical departure from norms.
SmashedWorm64 | 19 hours ago
The average person is an actual idiot though.
Fundamentally, it’s not worth what people think it is - some sort of mass delusion.
uber_neutrino | 14 hours ago
If everyone is an idiot and they buy an overpriced company isn't that just the value in reality? The value is whatever you can get for it today as set by the market.
Keep in mind that taking a take with a fairly low float and extrapolating to total enterprise value is just one way of looking a the value. Supply and demand is the real arbiter here and right now there isn't enough stock to go around. People want to own a piece of the company, it's that simple.
flex674 | 18 hours ago
Tesla makes billions a quarter, you can go drive their cars, you can use its ai, you can even use satellite internet. Where is the scam? There are self driving Teslas, there are electric semis, he has battery packs he sells to various countries. What is the scam? Speculation?
PurpleCoat6656 | 17 hours ago
Anglo spotted
BornAgainBlue | 18 hours ago
Or we are missing something. Which is quite frankly often the case. He has probably managed to secure the rights to all future space commerce.
omniumoptimus | 18 hours ago
If spacex were to become successful, there will also be an endless stream of people saying that they were somehow prevented from participation in that success.
alilhillbilly | 20 hours ago
The answer is pretty simple.
SpaceX should have been nationalized.
The fix is that we eventually nationalize Elon Musk's shares of SpaceX and deport him.
artisanrox | 19 hours ago
Yep. Fold it into NASA. Don't even let the name remain.
CurzesTeddybear | 15 hours ago
It was nationalized - we had NASA for decades and they took humans to the moon. They also produced a ton of incredible research and technology along the way. It's one of the greatest returns on investment of all time, if one insists on viewing it that way.
The United States decided to pivot away from that and replace it with corporitization, for reasons that should be evident.
Thl70 | 17 hours ago
Dude. Where have you been in the last 20 years. USA privatize not nationalize. We let these large industries run until they need bailing then we step in and pay the bill and reset the breaker. It’s the private and national dynamics that dictate our government. This is it unless we as a people veto government and conceive a new one. It doesn’t matter if the left or the right is in charge. American corporations will dictate our ways of life. The American government is there for big business and not the people. Capitalism won and is carrying on with business and will manifest itself to its ultimate end.
doubagilga | 20 hours ago
The fix to absolutely anything is always NOT TO NATIONALIZE.
alilhillbilly | 19 hours ago
I agree with you.
Except here.
Tax payers built that company.
They also built Tesla.
I'm not saying nationalize the company. I'm saying nationalizes his shares.
I realize what I'm saying and you're going to come back and say well that's not possible and I will tell you that I had ice helicopters flying over my house 24/7 for 2 months last fall and watched as legal residents were beaten in the street a few blocks self from my extremely nice condo in an extremely nice area.
Anything is possible.
KFSX | 19 hours ago
The word "fix" implies something is broken or otherwise wrong, but the current system is setup fine as is. If you don't like SpaceX for the risk, don't buy the stock.
alilhillbilly | 19 hours ago
SpaceX was a sneaky privatized NASA that is where it is today because of public money.
Same with Tesla.
It's not about the risk.
It's about this should just belong to the US.
uncle-iroh-11 | 15 hours ago
NASA gets way more public money. Why haven't they done the same things?
KFSX | 19 hours ago
Total nonsense and not how government contracts work.
alilhillbilly | 18 hours ago
And I'm not arguing for Tesla that we go nationalize Tesla.
SpaceX is pretty unique.
KFSX | 18 hours ago
You're not arguing anything, you're just making silly statements and expecting people to take you seriously. "SpaceX is a private company who was contracted by the government to perform services, and because we contracted them to do things therefore we should own them."
That's not an argument so much as a statement of bitterness toward SpaceX's success aimed in the direction of Elon Musk.
alilhillbilly | 18 hours ago
We need an extremely thorough Congressional and criminal investigation into Elon Musk.
KFSX | 17 hours ago
Haha see what I mean?
alilhillbilly | 14 hours ago
I don't at all.
You attributed this to bitterness about Elon Musk as if I personally beef with him. And, I don't.
However, he's blurred incredible lines between government and personal interest right down to his DOGE kids opening backdoors to government data to Russia.
pulse7 | 15 hours ago
Feels over reals. The reddit way
0WatcherintheWater0 | 16 hours ago
NASA specifically wanted SpaceX to exist as a competitor to existing launchers - and so gave them contracts to help with that.
What in the world would nationalization accomplish? Beyond subjecting the world’s biggest rocket company to the same budget stranglehold Nasa’s been in for decades?
Limp-Plantain3824 | 20 hours ago
Most Americans can’t accurately explain their 401(k) match nor their effective federal income tax rate.
Broken clock and all that, but Americans’ “unease” on this is about the least convincing argument I can think of.
Cum_on_doorknob | 19 hours ago
I’ve still yet to hear someone even give their doomer prediction about it. Like no one is willing to actually explain how and what this whole supposed fiasco will look like. The company is big and has a ton of assets, IPs, and monopolist moats. Even if it’s overvalued, it’s not going to somehow be worth so little that it actually causes some kind of chain reaction, causing the stock market to plunge into a depression. This is all so stupid.
iliveonramen | 19 hours ago
What moats? It’s social media and AI company are losing money hand over fist. Both X and Grok are well behind other platforms in the same industries.
Their rocket portion is getting competition from Bezos. Maybe 30% of the country loves Musk, but as many or more sees him as a national security risk.
It’s not hard to give a doomer prediction. It’s a lot harder to validate its market value. If Musk ends up rolling Tesla in to it, well another company that is faltering and losing market share.
Rules ate being changes to get some of these companies into these indexes held by passive investors. It’s crooked and not hard to point out how it’s problematic
snowbeast93 | 18 hours ago
Space X has launched thousands and thousands of satellites, it built Starlink with over 10,000 satellites in LEO
BlueOrigin has launched two satellites in its entire history
iliveonramen | 18 hours ago
Sure, and Blue Origin are already getting govt contracts.
There’s a lot of incentive to have more than one company doing these things. Europe will probably follow suite with their own space industry.
The massive capital investment is a barrier to entry but there will be competitors
SvenTropics | 17 hours ago
If you have a 401k, make sure it's invested in the s&p500 if there is an option for that. If there isnt, switch to bonds or money markets. You can weather this crash and get in at a better point
sierrackh | 19 hours ago
Gotta but me some Rocketlab, these clowns can eat gravel. The grift is getting pretty ridiculous. Then again, institutional investors are gaming it, too. Including mine
LV426acheron | 16 hours ago
Unless you're all in on QQQ or buying the IPO itself, as long as you have diversified index funds, the individual impact on your portfolio will be pretty minimal.
However, the small number of insiders who are involved with SpaceX will all get absurdly wealthy.
CapeMOGuy | 20 hours ago
If someone is invested in index funds holding SpaceX, if they don't like that they could always short SpaceX, too.
I find the person whining about being forced into the S&P 500 ridiculous. Invest in something else, then. Retirement plans have choices.
Celestrael | 19 hours ago
You’re wrong in several ways. Maybe should know what you’re talking about before running the mouth and shilling.
That’s why people people are mad, Shillbert Shillington.
CapeMOGuy | 19 hours ago
I didn't say it was forced into S&P 500. But it will be when the year(?) wait expires. I talked about the person quoted who said they were forced into it. You're responding to something I didn't say.
There are bond index funds, too. As well as annuities and stable value funds. I can't believe someone as smart as you claim to be doesn't know that.
Agree. I never said it was smart to short SpaceX, just that they could. You're again responding to something I didn't say.
Pure supposition.
I know exactly what I'm talking about and am not shilling for anyone. But just keep disputing points I didn't make if it makes you feel better. You're so angry that you didn't even understand what I said.
Celestrael | 19 hours ago
Annuities in 401k is something being rolled out in 2027 but not currently available. Not all 401ks offer bond index funds. And stable value funds exist but provide nearly zero return.
It's not unreasonable that people don't want rules bent for overvalued companies with no revenue to force their way into index funds before having time to prove themselves.
It's also not reasonable to say "Well if you don't like SpaceX you can just invest in funds that return beneath the rate of inflation".
It's forced in that it's a false choice. You either let Elon rob you, or don't participate (by moving to low return options you mentioned). Both are to your detriment, and avoiding his robbery hurts you as an individual more.
CapeMOGuy | 18 hours ago
TIAA-CREF currently offers fixed and variable annuities within their 401k plans. Here's a link to their offerings by plan type.
https://www.tiaa.org/public/tcm/myretirement/view-all-investments
Celestrael | 17 hours ago
That's great. Never heard of TIAA and 75% of the 401k market is controlled by 4 companies. TIAA isn't one of them. And you can't just shop around, you have to use who your employer partners with. Which for nearly half of American workers, is Fidelity. Including myself.
I don't understand why you're unable to process that workers have highly limited agency in 401k decisions. Which makes what NASDAQ and SpaceX did even more egregious.
CapeMOGuy | 17 hours ago
If you've never heard of TIAA-CREF that tells me what I need to know.
Celestrael | 17 hours ago
Enjoy your downvotes, Shillbert.
CapeMOGuy | 16 hours ago
All the downvotes in the world don't render the truth to be untrue.
mjm65 | 13 hours ago
That’s just a dumb take, who is trusting regular retail investors with short positions based on one stock that got in due to a rule change?
How about we just keep the normal rules in place and active investors can decide if this is the trillion dollar company they want to invest in?