I live in Japan and five years ago my drinking buddy at the time only had USD and was about to get on the shinkansen. He needed Yen ASAP. So he said, "dude I'll trade you a 100USD for 10000YEN." At the time it was an easy fifteen bucks or something profit after exchange, so I said, sure, here ya go.
I put it in a drawer and forgot about it until a few weeks ago. I'm going to the moon with this, ladies and gentlemen
He literally put 100USD in front of me, said he forgot to get more yen before his trip, and asked for a favor. Am I really in the wrong from your perspective?
Please explain how the situation I described is me "trying to make a buck". You're saying he regretted the terms he presented, and is forever resentful that I didn't drag him to a bank to look up the exchange rate at the time?
It very much depends on the people and the relationship. Through many years, I've swung a few hundred$+ in either direction with a bunch of people, thousands with a couple.
I much prefer zero stress - if money is tight, we just don't do expensive stuff, or steal the bill before they have a chance to pay. Mostly that means we stay cheap until we can safely cover multiple people if needed (running your safety-buffer low enough that you can't do that is a terrible idea anyway).
You could have given him the bill for his immediate expenses and later give him the difference. Or pay him a beer or a lunch to make up for it. I'd never take advantage of a friend in need like that.
And as you said, "it was an easy 15 bucks". You were very aware of what you were doing: easy money off your "friend", instead of friends not minding a few dollars missing here or there.
I did something similar for a US tourist who was making me ashamed of being a US tourist. Got on a boat tour, bar is cash only, he only has dollars. I traded him something like $100 worth of yen, I told him the exchange rate, and that he was paying above it. He didn't care, he just wanted to buy some drinks
It might have been a gift by his friend. You don't know the details, maybe the friend is more affluent, maybe op had already let him stay in his apartment and given him food and this was the friends covert attempt to even the scale without directly offering money.
You mean the cost of a couple of beers at the end of the day?
OP clearly stated the situation was of a mutual benefit - friend got their Y now and don't need to bother with doing an exchange, OP got a few spare bucks which was a such big sum what it literally sat in the drawer for 5 (five) years.
In 2021, USD to JPY exchange rate ranged from ~102 to ~115, and the average was ~109. The actual exchange rate could be a bit less depending on where you make the exchange, so 100 USD to 10000 JPY doesn't seem like that much off.
(For example, I noticed that if I buy something from Amazon or try to pay for something using Paypal, the exchange rate they offered me is consistently worse than the market rate if I elect to pay with USD instead of JPY. The difference often adds up to a few dollars, even accounting for foreign transaction fees that my bank might charge.)
It’s pointless. Setting money on fire
to avoid the inevitable.
Since Bessent did what he did the whole issue has been swallowed up in the idiotic partisan maw of US politics, but it’s just a self-defeating effort by Japan to fight the market.
They can't afford to. At 4.5% average rates, their interest payments will consume something on the order of 80% of their government budget and huge portions of GDP. Their 30 year paper was trading at 4.1% last week. If the short end of the yield curve pumps even higher, they are utterly screwed. Consequences of 250% debt to gdp.
Well, hopefully they’ve been smarter than the US about managing bond duration, but yeah. Doesn’t change reality in the currency markets, and sometimes you have to choose between the devil and the deep blue sea.
The US has the same problem. Maybe less extreme, but the balance sheet has tons of short-term debt, and rates aren’t cooperating.
It's not that simple. Untold numbers of U.S. bonds are held by people running the "carry trade" (borrowing JPY at low interest rates in order to buy mostly U.S. treasuries and make money on the difference).
If you raise JPY rates, then these U.S. treasuries are going to get liquidated driving up U.S. rates and of course the U.S. doesn't like that.
So, I believe the US is pressuring Japan NOT to raise rates, i.e. to save the U.S.'s own currency.
This is undoubtedly why Bessent bought $5 to $10 billion JPY using Euro awhile back (as rumored, the exact amount is a secret). That way he could try and bailout Japan and by using Euro instead of USD, not affect US inflation so much. He also did it without telling anyone in Europe which quite pissed them off as well.
It's really funny seeing these shenanigans take place with all the pompousness the US shows regarding its currency and how it pretends it itself is not going broke.
It’s true that the carry trade unwinding suddenly would be…traumatic (and debatably the root cause of the rate spike that killed SVB a few years ago), but it could be managed gradually, and must be done to bring Japan back from the brink.
> So, I believe the US is pressuring Japan NOT to raise rates, i.e. to save the U.S.'s own currency.
The US is pressuring the BoJ not to liquidate US debt to get the USD needed to buy Yen. It only tangentially relates to bond yields, and has nothing to do with defending the USD.
It would be better for the US if Japan just normalized rates, but Japanese politicians are resistant.
The carry trade hides a lot of US debt, too. Why would the US only care about the US debt held sovereignly by Japan and not by the banks and hedgefunds executing the carry trade?
If the US is not trying to defend the US dollar, why'd they use Euros and not USD to prop up the Yen, and also why surprise everybody doing so?
And, if it is better for the US if Japan normalized rates, then why did the US buy yen at all? According to you, just telling Japan to raise rates would be better, right?
The carry trade does not hide public US debt. The US Treasury is concerned about Japan because it’s like the first or second largest holder of Treasuries in the world.
> If the US is not trying to defend the US dollar, why'd they use Euros and not USD to prop up the Yen
Because that was the legal facility open to them. They used a foreign currency reserve that they had the ability to trade.
> And, if it is better for the US if Japan normalized rates, then why did the US buy yen at all? According to you, just telling Japan to raise rates would be better, right?
Yes. Go re-read my comment: Japanese politicians do not want rates to go up. It’s like a cornerstone of current LDP policy.
USD is falling vs euro so EURJPY is even more bleak. USD in general during those times was way stronger than it is today so those numbers are meaningless.
Because that was 1985, and this is now. Entire supply chains, input costs, planning, etc. have been built around the assumption of the JPY trading in some sort of range.
Of course that will change over time, if it hasn't already. The Japanese government's messaging about this has been that they're not really worried about the currency weakening (after all they're massive net exporters! it should be a good thing), but rather the speed at which it's happening.
Many don't though, and even if they all did, you can't hedge forever. Hedges are also rolling, so as some hedges expire the companies need to set up new hedges, which are at a worse FX rate. So the hedges lessen the impact but they aren't perfect, otherwise they would not be called 'hedges'.
Because you cherry-picked 1985. It went below 160:1 in 1986 and hasn't been back since, until now. So it's the weakest it's been in literally 40 years; that's at least potentially a big deal.
shoobiedoo | 4 hours ago
I put it in a drawer and forgot about it until a few weeks ago. I'm going to the moon with this, ladies and gentlemen
zaik | 4 hours ago
rtpg | 4 hours ago
oniony | 4 hours ago
piker | 3 hours ago
0cf8612b2e1e | an hour ago
If the guy was so hot to not lose a dime, he could have said, “Loan me 10k yen right now, I will pay you back ASAP”.
If the guy is in Japan with American currency, he likely knows the exchange rate and exactly the terms he was getting.
shoobiedoo | 4 hours ago
xattt | 4 hours ago
/s
itake | 4 hours ago
Between electronic transfer and just settle the debt later, isn’t really an excuse…
shoobiedoo | 3 hours ago
Groxx | 3 hours ago
I much prefer zero stress - if money is tight, we just don't do expensive stuff, or steal the bill before they have a chance to pay. Mostly that means we stay cheap until we can safely cover multiple people if needed (running your safety-buffer low enough that you can't do that is a terrible idea anyway).
easythrees | 4 hours ago
lachjb | 3 hours ago
glimshe | 3 hours ago
And as you said, "it was an easy 15 bucks". You were very aware of what you were doing: easy money off your "friend", instead of friends not minding a few dollars missing here or there.
georgemcbay | 3 hours ago
glimshe | 3 hours ago
georgel | 2 hours ago
RyJones | 3 hours ago
N_Lens | 4 hours ago
geysersam | 4 hours ago
justsomehnguy | 3 hours ago
OP clearly stated the situation was of a mutual benefit - friend got their Y now and don't need to bother with doing an exchange, OP got a few spare bucks which was a such big sum what it literally sat in the drawer for 5 (five) years.
omoikane | 52 minutes ago
(For example, I noticed that if I buy something from Amazon or try to pay for something using Paypal, the exchange rate they offered me is consistently worse than the market rate if I elect to pay with USD instead of JPY. The difference often adds up to a few dollars, even accounting for foreign transaction fees that my bank might charge.)
Groxx | 3 hours ago
chvid | 3 hours ago
I guess it still is - it just went from 1 USD to 1 AUD to now 1 NZD :-D
timr | 4 hours ago
m00dy | 4 hours ago
timr | 4 hours ago
Since Bessent did what he did the whole issue has been swallowed up in the idiotic partisan maw of US politics, but it’s just a self-defeating effort by Japan to fight the market.
charcircuit | 3 hours ago
timr | 3 hours ago
> It's expected for the BoJ to raise the rate to 1.25% in 2 weeks.
Cool. Only like four hundred basis points to go!
missedthecue | 3 hours ago
timr | 3 hours ago
The US has the same problem. Maybe less extreme, but the balance sheet has tons of short-term debt, and rates aren’t cooperating.
foo12bar | 3 hours ago
If you raise JPY rates, then these U.S. treasuries are going to get liquidated driving up U.S. rates and of course the U.S. doesn't like that.
So, I believe the US is pressuring Japan NOT to raise rates, i.e. to save the U.S.'s own currency.
This is undoubtedly why Bessent bought $5 to $10 billion JPY using Euro awhile back (as rumored, the exact amount is a secret). That way he could try and bailout Japan and by using Euro instead of USD, not affect US inflation so much. He also did it without telling anyone in Europe which quite pissed them off as well.
It's really funny seeing these shenanigans take place with all the pompousness the US shows regarding its currency and how it pretends it itself is not going broke.
timr | 3 hours ago
> So, I believe the US is pressuring Japan NOT to raise rates, i.e. to save the U.S.'s own currency.
The US is pressuring the BoJ not to liquidate US debt to get the USD needed to buy Yen. It only tangentially relates to bond yields, and has nothing to do with defending the USD.
It would be better for the US if Japan just normalized rates, but Japanese politicians are resistant.
foo12bar | 2 hours ago
If the US is not trying to defend the US dollar, why'd they use Euros and not USD to prop up the Yen, and also why surprise everybody doing so?
And, if it is better for the US if Japan normalized rates, then why did the US buy yen at all? According to you, just telling Japan to raise rates would be better, right?
timr | an hour ago
> If the US is not trying to defend the US dollar, why'd they use Euros and not USD to prop up the Yen
Because that was the legal facility open to them. They used a foreign currency reserve that they had the ability to trade.
> And, if it is better for the US if Japan normalized rates, then why did the US buy yen at all? According to you, just telling Japan to raise rates would be better, right?
Yes. Go re-read my comment: Japanese politicians do not want rates to go up. It’s like a cornerstone of current LDP policy.
charlieyu1 | 2 hours ago
tw1984 | 4 hours ago
With almost all of its industries no longer in a leading position, with its car industry being demolished by EVs, 250:1 is what it is heading.
himata4113 | 4 hours ago
hackernud3s | 2 hours ago
weakened_malloc | 3 hours ago
Of course that will change over time, if it hasn't already. The Japanese government's messaging about this has been that they're not really worried about the currency weakening (after all they're massive net exporters! it should be a good thing), but rather the speed at which it's happening.
afarah1 | 3 hours ago
reactordev | 3 hours ago
weakened_malloc | 3 hours ago
AnimalMuppet | 3 hours ago
alansaber | 3 hours ago
lkrubner | 3 hours ago
chenzhekl | 3 hours ago
2OEH8eoCRo0 | 3 hours ago
charcircuit | 3 hours ago
alansaber | 3 hours ago
charcircuit | an hour ago
Stevvo | 3 hours ago
cco | 3 hours ago
Always seems to go wrong. Like spraying water on a forest fire with a straw.