I don't think it issue is selling in the current climate, producing seems like the major roadblock. If Russia, the supposed number one in air defence can't even protect their military bases, ramping up production might be hard.
In some countries maybe, but in west where all the valuable infrastructure is there is absolutely no way you could get a permit to shoot down anything.
Ukraine showed you can deploy from shipping containers delivered inside hostile lands quite successfully. As much stuff gets smuggled into US ports on a daily basis, sneaking a few of these into the US isn't impossible. Honestly, I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet.
I'm talking about as a response to already being attacked, not just someone sitting around looking to poke the bear. Iran has the drones, they've been attacked, and would make sense to be looking for a plan like this.
Yes they don't, mostly because it's a relatively small group of individuals dispersed in a huge country. The same cannot be said of the Iranian government.
Given how quickly this technology is proliferating I think that could change. Numerous non-state groups are using drones offensively in Africa and Colombia. If a drone hit something like a refinery and there was significant impact, don't you think the status quo could change quickly?
I'm extremely surprised that isn't already a thing. I'm similarly surprised that all the datacenters which get press for the negative impact on the surrounding communities have remained untouched.
This was the result of what unfolded after regional electricity prices spiked (550%) after a corporation decided to take a lot of local power for itself.
After local opposition began forming, Shiawase Corporation made a false flag attack against itself to influence a future ruling where it could then defend itself similar to a sovereign nation in a foreign land. So full corporate “extraterritoriality”, to where maintaining its own regulated militia/defense force would be legally free and clear.
The current crop of "cruise missiles" are cheap and low penetration. Burying things is not 100% safe, but it certainly increases the attack difficulty.
How many $200 quadcopters delivering blow after blow to reach the equivalent damage to a single MOAB? Is it an impossible number to reach for those unable to deliver MOAB?
A MOAB apparently has the equivalent of 11tons of TNT. A drone carrying a grenade has up to 180 grams. So you need about 61 111 drones to deliver the equivalent explosive. At that point it might be cheaper to just bring the MOAB.
61111 * $200 is only a little over $12million. The plane to deliver the MOAB is more than that. Also, why does it need to be a grenade? Why not deliver C4 or other explosive material?
The 200$ drones have a couple of kilometers range at best. You won't deliver them from 400 km away. You still need a delivery vehicle. But this discussion went off the rails, it's obvious fantasy land at this point.
We're talking about bunker-busters - the MOAB is not a bunker buster. It's an airburst weapon designed to clear out large open spaces, and isn't effective against hardened bunkers.
No reasonable amount of quadcopters could match a bunker-buster. Surface explosions are not very effective against buried targets.
The weight and density of the bunker-buster is extremely important to its operation. When dropped from a high altitude, it breaks into the bunker with sheer kinetic force, and then explodes once inside.
Yeah, I'm not a military expert and confused the ordinance nick names. To be sure, the kinetic force is definitely something that cannot be recreated with drone swarm attacks.
Those are entirely different missions. A GBU-43 MOAB is used against soft targets on the ground. A GBU-28 is used against hardened buried targets. It's simply physically impossible to dig a big enough hole with a bunch of small drones or bombs: the only way to penetrate deeply enough is with a hard object moving really fast.
>How many $200 quadcopters delivering blow after blow to reach the equivalent damage to a single <orders of magnitude larger purpose designed munition>?
How long do I have to piss on a steel plate to get the same effect as a waterjet cutter?
You don't dig a hole deep enough that Bunker Busters can't penetrate. You drive up to the root of a mountain where it meets flats and drill sideways. Getting your men out in case the entrance was bombed can be tricky though.
The last thing we need is more Silicon Valley funded military startups. This means the ecosystem is now profiting off of war, suffering, war crimes, and human death. What we need is startups focusing on peace and diplomacy. That solves way more problems in a net positive manner.
That said, I’m in agreement in principle. A lot of what you’re asking for is statecraft, and doing that with a profit model is brittle to corruption. But I’d greatly prefer to see folks trying to build things on hope then on bloodshed.
You can always exhaust anti air defenses faster than they can defend if sufficiently prepared. Decoys help, just as you would with an intercontinental ballistic missile. Defender has to succeed 100% of the time, attacker needs to succeed once.
If your strategy assumes you can succeed against Iron Dome (which, I argue, is the state of the art for available air defense system), you should always be able to win as an attacker. Just have to test defenses ahead of time to understand level of effort required (munition capabilities, cadence, and quantity required, broadly speaking).
The fundamental challenge is that it will never be economically feasible to provide the necessary defense hardware at scale. Iran beat back the US military (“most powerful military in the world” quote unquote) and Ukraine Russia’s military on a shoestring budget. You can protect some targets some or most of the time, you cannot protect all potential targets all of the time.
If someone wants to take out a data center, they will likely succeed assuming they have the resources (probably military drones, but perhaps more traditional ballistic artillery). The world has become a more dangerous, volatile, and unpredictable place, for gestures broadly at everything reasons.
(thoughts, opinions, and threat model always my own)
Will we get degraded performance notifications when the DC's power suddenly prioritize the lasers over the GPUs? At 15:34UTC, we noticed degraded performance due to an incoming drone strike. Normal performance was restored at 15:42UTC once the strike was defeated.
Russian suicide drones are still like minimum $10k each. That's probably like ~1k rounds in 12.7mm/14.5mm or ~200 rounds in 20mm. Missiles are a lot more expensive, but the defense side cost can be substantially lower than the offense side if you could make it work with an auto turret rather than guided missiles.
No, only Wagner. Redut is controlled by GRU, but its not financed by the russian state. And beside fighting in Ukrain they still provide security for the russian oil industry. Like how US mercenaries in Iraq and Afghanistan took orders from MOD, while being private entries.
I saw a video the other day advertising AI-powered a anti-air/drone gun. Seems to be part of a defense trade show, but also seemed to indicate that it was available to certain "qualified" citizens, but I'm not sure what that means exactly
Wouldn't work. They would just send enough drones to overwhelm it or run it out of ammos or Russia out of money. This is the lesson we are learning the hard way in the Middle East.
Releasing drone swarms wrapping in chaff with IR lamps or laser diodes to account for different guidance methods. They cluster around predicted trajectory. Could be more cost effective than a Patriot battery
They don't all have to be drones in the conventional sense. A subset could be a set of balloons with different amounts of helium, an arduino/servos that control one or more fans for directional and limited altitude control, and a box/release with chaff inside.
Whatever isn't used/destroyed could be recovered wherever it lands after a day or two.
It should be less expensive a possibly more effective in certain circumstances because of increased carrying capacity.
The US State Department will throw everything at you if you dare tried to build or possess your own guided guns and rockets, even if you were not from or in the US - because there was a US ally that exported a near-orbital solid motor sounding rocket to a Balkan nation with full factory setup and manufacturing training services without asking anybody in particular, which resulted in the recipient nation achieving prototype production and successful live fire tests of an indigenous surface to air missile system comparable to Soviet S-75 strategic SAM that was eventually selected.
If it weren't for those pile of laws and leverages... building a SAM was doable since 1950s.
I look forward to anthropic drone swarms defending against AWS mounted infantry and OpenAI cruise drones. SpaceX is at war with Pepsi. SpaceX had always been at war with Pepsi.
The genie is out of the bottle, over the next 100 years this is a real problem US, China, and Europe will face.
Though someone like Amazon will have to calculate, is the 50-year cost of protecting all facilities less than the 50-year cost of rebuilding the ones that are destroyed?
It's already happened to Amazon once, and they were not able to recover the data from the destroyed data centre, so they have already experienced this and have some data on which to make those decisions.
If you are referring to the recent UAE datacenter attacks, AFAIK Amazon's services worked as advertised, but obviously a redundant resource is only as good as the number of copies you have left, and eventually 3 of 3 datacenters were hit.
Apparently not all AWS resources/services are redundant - some are advertised as single location, and then it's up to the customer whether they choose to pay to make backups elsewhere (e.g. in a different region) or not.
This is one of the factors driving the development of orbital satellite data centers. While satellites are also vulnerable, they are at least somewhat harder to hit than a stationary terrestrial data center. For now it's questionable whether such constellations are feasible due to concerns over launch costs and cooling but some people are taking it seriously.
The difference is that to hit stationary terrestrial data center in the USA you'd need to go through multiple layers of defense systems, not to mention it would probably be an act of war.
As for the satellites they can be jammed and there's not much you can do about it.
Nah. There's no practical way to jam tight beam satellite data links unless you place the jammer near the ground terminal. And the US government has already stated that they would consider kinetic strikes on US-owned commercial satellites as an act of war.
In addition to all the engineering problems associated with cooling those data centers and the shields that you'd need against cosmic rays, those things would only accelerate Kessler syndrome.
Yeah, it still is. You might not get a permanent runaway Kessler effect, but you could still have an event that denies access to LEO for several years before it clears.
An event at one orbital altitude is also not confined to that altitude; debris can reach higher altitudes and affect satellites in those orbits.
You could do a ghaza and park human shields over military relevant infrastructure? Introducing Host.Age housing the only housing with free heating, free warn water and free leftover tokens .
Interesting to see this and the targeting of data centers in the Middle East. Its critical infrastructure and a hit gets the attacker a lot of bang for the buck in terms of economic damage.
From what I see, these are the "tit" part of the "tit for tat" strategy. Neither Ukraine, nor Iran targeted these in the beginning, however when other side started to escalate, both replied by attacking more critical infrastructure for the other party.
Ukraine has been at war for 4 years. They didn’t have the capability to hit Russia this hard and deep until fairly recently. These are mostly home grown weapons developed during the war.
That's true, however they don't use this capability like it's infinite. They only utilize this when Russia does something similar or plans of doing something similar leaks.
I'm not a fan of wars, regardless of where they happen. OTOH, I still believe you can fight relatively clean or be an unethical bully. If the war is unavoidable, I prefer to be the former.
I also commend Ukraine's ingenuity and bravery, as well.
Exactly, long-range drone attack capability is an asymmetric advantage for Ukraine only relative to their other capabilities, not relative to Russia. Russia can easily make Kyiv unlivable, as they are just starting to do.
I mean "physically or psychologically impossible to continue living in"--I have Ukrainian colleagues living in Kyiv and they report that only in the last few weeks has it become absolutely unbearable with air raid sirens around the clock.
I don't know what sites you frequent but strikes on distribution centers by both sides has been covered by mainstream US news.
Do the sites you frequent mention that Russia does double tap strikes to kill civilian first responders or that they have stolen thousands of Ukrainian children?
I seem to recall that this is optimal game theoretic strategy - don't initiate, but always immediately retaliate.
Whatever is happening now is payback for Putin's birthday present to himself from 2 days ago, firing a missile into a Ukrainian apartment building that killed 22 civilians (mostly women & children).
Apparently Wildberries carry/carried over 1/4 million items tagged as "for SMO" (Special Military Operation), so they had become a major part of the supply chain for Putin's war, which is why they were hit.
In the case of Wildberries we're not talking about "dual use" items like a sleeping bag that your government fails to provide you, we're talking about specifically tagging items (1/4 million of them!!) as being for the war. It's Wildberries' business (literally) if they want to be a supplier for the war, and profit from it, but obviously that does mean they become a target.
Cutting off the enemy supply line is a classic and obvious military strategy. Ukraine didn't choose to be attacked, nor did they choose for Wildberries to become part of the supply line. They are playing the cards they were dealt, and I would say doing so with remarkable restraint.
Russia dont have that many large datacenters and replacing them is both damn hard and expensive.
Also unlike in Ukraine local organizations are required to run on infrastructure inside country by law and even major peering points are very centralised. Connections between Russia and other countries are even more centralised.
So it doesnt matter in what order datacenters going to be destroyed. Ukraine just need to take down enough of them.
To be clear, it seems like two different datacenters, and the first attack alone seems to have been wildly successful already, burning down ~1/3rd of the entire building (!!!). Some of the reported outages:
The most serious disruptions were reported in Moscow and St. Petersburg, where users also experienced problems with T-Bank, internet provider SkyNet, and the Mango Office cloud service... Yandex Disk, Yandex Documents, and other company services... online bus-ticket sales in the Moscow region [via] MosTransAvto... Several major Russian media websites, including RBC, RIA Novosti, Kommersant, Vedomosti, Interfax, and Vesti... Russian Railways...
And all that's before this attack. We'll see what the extent is, I guess.
So I'd say the goal here is to intimidate and/or inconvenience the Russian public and general economy, which is the main way they'll advance a war against a country they are forbidden from invading to any semi-meaningful degree (due to nukes). Permenantly destroying data would be nice, sure, but service interruption is already such a huge win that it'd be a marginal improvement only, IMHO.
That is, unless there are cloud-native banks without backups, which... yikes! Possible, I suppose?
Russia started to very actively hit Ukraine datacanters a month ago. So everyone sane likely had some backups by now because they knew this is going to happen.
They just re-host it on chinese clouds. Most of european part of russia dont have mobile internet for years now and it did not change much for people living there.
Adding 200ms of latency wont affect anyone living much and China will happily sell datacenter capacity to it's vassal state.
Ukraine has backups and redundancy in allied countries. Russia has been doing the opposite recently, trying to reduce their dependence on foreign infrastructure, which now bites them in the ass since it concentrates them into a small number of physical locations in strike range of Ukraine.
> So I'd say the goal here is to intimidate and/or inconvenience the Russian public
Nope, the Russian public is mostly entirely checked out of politics and will roll with any inconvenience. You won't see any rioting in the streets due to this.
The point is to inflict economic harm on the elite around Putin--the owners of Yandex, the other companies using those datacenters, etc.
The point is not to take out the average Russian's internet search index.
A more important goal is for these strikes to get headlines and serve as Western-facing propaganda, with "hitting Russia's Google" and "hitting Russia's Amazon" being easily digestible for those in Europe and America. That still beats the effect this will have on the average Russian.
That's a pretty tall assumption when every other customer is trying to copy their own data at the same time through the same tiny pipes and off the same spinning rust.
The typical customer also doesn't do their own backups, but rather relies on the infrastructure provider (that's a major selling point after all).
If we take the damaged Amazon data center in SA or the OVH fire as data points, the timeline appears to be measured in weeks and months, rather than hours.
In any case, I doubt that in 2 days most larger companies could even figure out where their data is and develop a strategy to copy it.
Backups don't matter at all if you can destroy the hardware. Yandex is not rebuilding this at meaningful price, and if they do Ukrainians just burn it down again.
A lot of the smaller drones that Ukraine is using only do limited damage - they may start a fire that can spread, but are not going to destroy an entire larger facility (although the Flamingo can do significant damage). Many Russian energy facilities just get hit repeatedly over time - Russia will fix as fast as they can. Staggering hits seems to make sense.
There are chemical based emp bombs, NNEMPs, if the penetrate through to the inside and set that off it seems like it would be pretty effective on datacenters.
Russian air defense is multi layered and relatively strong, so one of Ukraine's main strategies so far has been just to overwhelm them with volume. You want mass volume cheap and cheerful, not expensive ones, unless for the occasional strategic target.
Ukraine only has limited number of more capable missiles/drones like Flamingo FP-5 and Neptune, although now the FP-7 is about to hit volume production, followed by the FP-9, as well as Europe-supplied missile and anti-missile systems, so it remains to be seen if this will change Ukraine's strategy ... I tend to doubt it - they will have firepower to retaliate much harder, and at further distance, when they want to, but I expect they don't want to unilaterally escalate.
Energy facilities have the destructive energy stockpiled on-site. Don't need to fly in much force yourself.
Also why I think governments should mass-produce & subsidize blow-molded 25L plastic gas cans instead of building centralized storage tanks/caverns. No way those things cost anywhere near US$25 to make.
I think the energy facilities being hit are mostly refineries - not storage, and anyways any bulk storage is just temporary for bulk transport for export or to the front, etc, so having it in 25gal cans wouldn't be very helpful!
Countries still have strategic reserves, but usually of crude, not refined product --> decentralized reserves would help with supply cuts by any cause. The benefit would be too individual vs export/frontlines, so won't happen.
Am I the only one thinking just blurring the site is a little naive? It's relatively trivial to extrapolate the centers of the blobs from a blur. Pretty strange thing picking up a ticket to obfuscate your company's data centers on the map to protect them against drone attacks and then kind of just phoning it in
What is a Russian citizen supposed to do? I fear most Russians will just turn on Ukraine, as now they have tangible "evidence" that maybe Putin was right all along.
The ideal is turning on Putin, but what does that even look like? The guy has 9 layers of isolation, a carefully curated and frequently culled leadership, and a robust propaganda department.
So at the breaking point, will Russians storm the capital or storm Ukraine?
The only ones I know are the older timers with rosy soviet glasses. Young people, the ones who would do the actual fighting, seem to have incredibly low support for it.
There are two points to answer this question.
First is that the majority of russian population supports the war, and the number of russians that are anti-war now but can become supporters of an aggression as results of these strikes is negligible.
Second, the opinion of citizen does not count in russia anyway. It is an opinion of oligarchs and people in control that matters. Putin and his cronies are in their 70s and will go away soon. Whoever replaces the fuhrer and his clique needs to understand that messing with Ukraine is very costly affair. The more destruction is unleashed on russia now, the less bellirigent it will be in the future.
How come no more "Buchas" happened in the war? How come the only "Bucha" happened after Russia withdrew in anticipation of a peace agreement that was heavily opposed by UK and others?
After Nord Stream, we all know what those maniacs are capable of.
Tragically a lot Buchas happened[0], and there's plenty of videos of civilian executions - God only knows what atrocities are yet to be discovered in occupied territories.
All for some messed up sense of ethnic superiority.
You should also look at the evidence for executions of "collaborators" after Ukraine recaptured e.g. Kherson, Kupyansk, Izyum (and, in fact, Bucha, although there is also plenty of evidence of Russian war crimes there).
No source has evidence that Russian citizens are to blame. The truth is that Europeans spent more on buying oil and gas than they gave in aid to Ukraine, thus sponsoring the war. Also, they are guilty of racism against ordinary citizens by imposing sanctions on them instead of targeted sanctions against oligarchs and their assets in Europe.
Of course there are plenty of evidence, including video records. That's the most disconcerting thing, most of these crimes against humanity and war crimes were done out in the open.
Most like because they thought Ukraine was going to capitulate in few days, and they could hide the crimes of genocide, like it was done in the past.
That's how sickening this was, because Russia thought they were going to get away with it, they were just executing civilians for fun.
The whole world watched this in real time.
It's evil in at it's worst, for some sick illusion of ethnic superiority.
That has been said for four years. Due to russians using mobile incinerators to conceal causulties (and war crimes), not even caskets arrives home. Most russians know this, but what does it help.
Either the Russian people are pro-war, in which case retaliation to defend yourself is good.
Or they are anti-war but helpless to stop it, in which case retaliation to defend yourself is also good.
Either way if your country's existence is threatened and your people are being killed you don't sit back and do nothing because you are scared it'll make the attacker unhappy.
The problem is Russians are too afraid to turn on their motherland because "reasons" but that is exactly what has to happen to end the war. Hard to take medicine is indeed hard to take at first, but things are not getting better without it.
Americans are so naive about the "turn on their motherland" part. It's not really a reply to you, I just remembered some american whom I met and he was treating us as kids, saying things as "alone you are weak but together you are strong!"
yes if you could magically organize 10_000 people they could overthrow anyone. But organizing is hard. Starting from a fact that they need some secure comminution channel, and the government fights VPN quite actively. How would you reach these potential people?
You could do sort of broadcast a public message "if you don't like tsar let's take a walk tomorrow" but this signal would also be received by the police, so they can prepare. And we don't have the beautiful gun ownership culture of America.
And if you do something alone you just perish in prison.
When Navalny came back, over 300 000 people came out to protest, despite being terrorized. That did nothing. It's not like those people had guns and were ready to use them. And even if they did, that would only be an additional argument to use extra power of Putin's police state. Heck, if people did that, the very same "European anti-Putinists" would heavily condemn the violence and would support the crackdown on the "violent protestors" ("The future of the country is in stability and communication, not in violence. We urge people to lower their weapons. We support President Putin's attempts to keep the country stable and do what is necessary. We will send him an additional supply of tear gas and protest dispersal equipment. EU and Russia must stand together in these trying times.").
"The problem is that Europeans are too afraid to turn on their motherland "reasons," but that is exactly what has to happen to end to illegal migration. Hard to take medicine is indeed hard to take at first, but things are not getting better without it."
They could take accountability and face the consequences of resigning for their country responsibilities.
Yet they closed their eyes to everything, from the destruction of freedom of press, to corruption, even to political alternatives not being allowed, even to the war.
Russians won't storm anything, but if you observe their actual behavior, it's easy to see that they don't attribute their problems to Ukraine. No one is volunteering to go fight there without very high signup bonuses and salaries.
Russians may believe a lot of bullshit from TV, but when it comes to decisions that impact their own life, they act surprisingly rationally, and become very skeptical of anything the government says.
Who cares. Their government started this, and by all accounts most of their population supports, or is indifferent to it. They made their bed and they can now lie in it.
> So at the breaking point, will Russians storm the capital or storm Ukraine?
They've been storming Ukraine for the past 4 years now.
It never amazes me to encounter people who still don't know that Russia is not a democracy, that Russians have no voice and can't influence the direction of the country, that Russia has no elections and Putin (self-proclaimed President) is not a democratically elected leader.
Seems like the majority of people are uneducated to this extreme degree. Including the very highest leaders of the EU and the USA.
You know, things like coups exist. In many, many other countries leadership as bad as Russia's would have been ousted in a military coup long time ago, and the new regime would have pursued saner policy.
What are we Europeans supposed to do anyway? Negotiate about peace with leadership that isn't interested in peace? If history teaches us anything, it is that Russia's leadership respects only military force.
I'm not blaming ordinary Russians who indeed have very little power over anything, except that significant portion of them who support the war. But I am blaming the oligarchy, the elites who actually have some power, and yet let things continue like this.
> It never amazes me to encounter people who still don't know that Russia is not a democracy, that Russians have no voice and can't influence the direction of the country, that Russia has no elections and Putin (self-proclaimed President) is not a democratically elected leader.
And none of this matters, because Russia has no tradition of democracy and has always been ruled by dictators who derive their legitimacy through other means; mainly through their success in expanding the empire. The more you steal and the more people die in the process, the greater leader you are. Putin is a continuation of that tradition and enjoys widespread support among a population that shares the same vision: that Russia is a chosen nation and that being conquered by Russia is a privilege.
Russian history offers an excellent counterexample in the downfall of the USSR when Gorbachev and others lost their legitimacy. Formally, they remained the top figures in the government; in practice, people gradually stopped following them over a period of a few years as everything was disintegrating (shortage of basic products, pointless war in Afghanistan, disasters like Chernobyl, etc). The people simply chose new leaders from among themselves and turned their backs to Moscow.
For example, a police station might've simply ignored orders from the ministry of internal affairs and instead followed the recommendations of a popular local figure (often a factory manager, uni professor, journalist, artist or writer). As districts increasingly acted this way, Moscow gradually lost control over the police force, which became decentralized and locally run. In the end, bosses in Moscow could yell all they wanted into a phone, but that did not move a single police officer on the ground.
Russian central government is currently nowhere near such loss of legitimacy. Tens of millions of people carry out the orders of their Führer every day. Some have stepped into a foreign country while carrying a gun. Others are milling artillery shells or programming cruise missiles. Some are sitting on HN trying to convince the world how their Führer has no other option than to murder Ukrainian children every night.
There is no pushback worth mentioning. Last year, out of 140 million people living in Russia, only 38 were arrested for anti-war protests. Add a few hundred more for anti-war posts on the social media. Completely insignificant numbers. Russians on HN will gladly explain how oppressive the climate in Russia has become and how difficult (gasp!) it is to protest, but they fail to recognize the downstream effects: that Ukrainians have to pay with their lives every single day for the cancer that the cowardice of Russians has unleashed. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are in mortal danger right now on the frontline, trying to stop what Russians are too afraid to confront themselves.
Like the US, they are concerned about the cost of fuel and food. They, however, do not have a democratic process to fall back to, and therefore no hope of controlling these factors, ever. I suspect they would be a lot more willing to form a real rebellion once the issues get bad enough at Putins hand.
That's too late for that fear. Ukrainian strikes on refineries and "Russian Amazon's" warehouses have already changed the sentiment. That's a great gift from Zelensky to Putin.
Damn, this would have been a good argument for the US to fund Ukrainian long-distance operations, had Russia not been so far behind in the AI race already.
USA provides extensive engineering support and technology transfer for Ukraine's domestic development of long-range missiles. Basically everything short of just giving them Tomahawks. Ukraine's defense industry capabilities didn't develop so rapidly for no reason.
And the quality of targeting is almost entirely because of extensive USA intelligence sharing:
> According to American and Ukrainian officials familiar with the operations:
> Ukraine selects targets, although American intelligence reportedly also helps identify high-priority facilities.
> The US identifies vulnerabilities at Russian energy installations.
> American intelligence assists with mission planning, including routes, altitude, and timing to help Ukrainian drones evade Russian air defenses.
> US involvement extends across multiple stages of planning, according to three people familiar with the operations.
They're just using USA as political cover, which is how it has always been been. USA warned Europe for decades not to become reliant on cheap Russian gas because it would be weaponized against them. The Biden administration even sanctioned German companies [1] building Nordstream 2 because it was a Russian geopolitical project.
Trump didn't ask Zelensky to stop the strikes because German diesel prices are high. He did it because the US midterm elections are coming up and his party's base are disproportionately harmed by high gas prices.
Europe is most certainly not doing this. Trump isn't even serious, he's just "telling them to stop" in order to aid European anti-Trump propaganda which is used in Europe ironically to support US interests. Trump doesn't care that diesel is going up, especially because his friends are selling it. Cutting off Russian ability to join in this smorgasbord by causing a local diesel shortage for them also cuts off any concern he could possibly have about diesel prices.
Notice that he didn't end US diesel exports, he entertained the idea.
If Europe thinks they're "in this alone," and Europe is the "only one left" who will "defend" Ukraine, then Europe has to rearm in fear and figure out how to send more support to Ukraine, like to cut social services and ignore their heat/power bills to do it (and to steal from Russian accounts, which is being debated again.)
They will buy the weapons from the US, they will shore up the Ukraine war for the US, the will buy more LNG from the US, they will destroy local anti-US politicians for the US in favor of NATO, all to own Trump. Remember, Trump "hates" NATO. Not that he doesn't support everything they're doing, he's just threatened to stop paying for it i.e. they'll serve us for free. He's going to build a Ukraine War, and Europe's going to pay for it.
As a tactic, it was obvious why the US/Ukraine had to be aggressive right now; not only is Russia doing exceedingly well financially due to what the dumb Iran War did to prices, but winter is coming. For Ukraine, they were convinced that this was their last chance to make an impact before they were frozen. For the US it was an opportunity to burn weapons (so we can grab US taxes to make more), to get Russia to stop exports (because LNG goes up in Europe, and US oil goes up in general) and lastly and maybe most importantly to raise political support in Russia for strikes to civilian infrastructure. Putin is the conservative in Russia, and the politicians who are against him are demanding that he escalate rather than continue to bleed Russian lives forever.
If the US can convince Russia, who has been very gentle with Ukrainian civilian infrastructure, to destroy Ukrainian power going into the winter, the misery and death that will hit Ukrainians will be talked about for the next century (barring an big warming effect of the extreme El Niño.) That might fire up Europe even more into a delusionally belligerent frenzy (European NATO elites are losing the population), and possibly shore up support for more spending on Ukraine in the US itself. The US has suffered through a distinct lack of Russian atrocities in Ukraine, and this would be a great time to get some.
All I was trying to say is this wasn't a request at the EU level. I assume by Europe you meant EU. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You are correct that indeed France made the proposal that Russia stops destroying Ukrainian energy infrastructure and Ukraine would do the same thing. France as a country has that right to make such proposals. That doesn't make it a request or proposal at the EU level.
I have no idea how the no true scotsman fallacy applies to this. Maybe I'm missing something here
You also set up Hormuz and tariffs and spread discord between EU citiz ns through speeches of high officials and threaten Greenland, causing us to prepare to defend on multiple fronts while often publicly supporting Russia too.
I don't think the US even has any like that to give.
The long range strikes only started after Trump's "you have no cards" oval office shindig where he basically told Zelensky to surrender and cut aid. After that Trump lost a lot of influence to protect Russia.
In Vietnam, the USSR gave a considerable amount of equipment to Vietnam, they stationed 3,000 soldiers in Vietnam, and over a dozen of them were killed. The USSR told Vietnam where B-52s were heading so they could evacuate military leaders and get other military units out of the way. Soviet crews were firing SAMs at F-4 Phantoms and shooting them down, and Soviet pilots were flying planes.
When the Soviets went into Afghanistan, the mujahideen did not have the domestic capability to build Stinger missiles themselves...
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s shipping containers or even privately owned houses, filled with optically controlled or autonomous drones, sitting near high value infrastructure around the world. Mirroring those Ukrainian trucks.
It's fine. Putin doesn't even know how to use computers, let alone Internet. So all this is not bothering him at all. And he is the only person who can decide to stop the war; nobody else has that ability.
Problem is that RAM and disk manufacturing capacity is all sold out years ahead. Yandex while being largest IT company in Russia have nowhere near the money to compete with AI hyperscalers.
Nebius which is basically was out-of-Russia part Yandex is now larger than what left of Yandex in Russia.
I use ARM VPSes for quite some time and they are pretty performant. They don't have to replace with x86 systems. Linux on ARM is pretty mature and production ready at this point.
I don't know the hardware inside the data center, and it might not be a "AI" data center to begin with. NAND is a big problem, but DDR4 memory is not AFAICS, and if you need CPU power for serving stuff, getting it is easy.
If you need high performance or AI operations... GLHF!
my Arm/Android set-top box of choice for, ahem, streaming subscriptions, is up 50% in price despite no changes to the design since I bought it 2 years ago. And that's on aliexpress where margins are limited.
Will it be possible? Yes. Will it be easy, or cheap? No.
As is often the case, embargoes don't make things impossible - but they do add friction. Longer lead times, "grey market partner" premiums. People who supply Russian companies with hardware get to pad their pockets - and while they have ties in Russia, for obvious reasons, they prefer to keep those padded pockets outside Russia itself.
It's even worse for bleeding edge in-demand extra-controlled hardware like modern AI systems.
great question, I don't have a good answer. supposedly there are modern gpus in Russia, here you can rent a H200 (a GPU which was released after the war had started)
https://selectel.ru/services/dedicated/hgx-h200/
But how many of them exist and how easy is to replace, I have no idea
Except that nuclear reactors are very robustly built, unlike data centers. Nuclear stations are designed to withstand against the airplane dropping in.
Also, attack on a nuclear station is such a drastic and severe thing that it counts as the use of nuclear weapons. And if we are at that stage, it's a bit silly to worry about small things.
>I think most of the opposition really wants is stability and a return to normality. Blowing shit up is diametrically opposed to that goal.
So there isnt terrorism because most opposition dont want to blow up data centers? You are identifying opposition as potential domestic terrorists. As opposed to saying there just arent these type of domestic terrorists. Which have nothing to do with normal opposition.
And then you seem to imply there may be reason to resort to domestic terrorism?!
>Maybe only once most people realize that normality isn't coming back will that change.
Outside say redundancy across sites (a thing many offer in one way or another) ... there's not much you can DO.
When I used to work with US bank and financial institutions we used to do "disaster recovery tests" and it effectively meant they shut off a whole site and ran on their backups to see what happened.
Preferably after they thought a little more about the more regular fire and/or water ingress hazards.
Now that you can stuff an entire room with only high-G-resistant solid state drives, there should be fewer excuses for losing machines before determining a fire suppression system to be either inoperable or insufficient (but never tested and measured under realistic conditions).
The Yandex of today isn't exactly the Yandex of 2020. The people who were at the helm back then whitewashed their reputations, renamed to Nebius, and are now supplying compute to Palantir.
The Internet is almost 100% packet switching, a technique that someone brilliant in ARPA came up with the idea of claiming it was intended for nuclear warfare survival, in order to ensure funding.
“Data centers” need not be hyper-centralized. There’s an economy of scale of course, both in the building itself and in very local transmission. But all scale curves have knees, and one is survivability.
It’s possible a bunch of smaller 10 MW DCs might be faster to build, more survivable, and easier to get approved while being perfectly acceptable for most workloads.
>It’s possible a bunch of smaller 10 MW DCs might be faster to build, more survivable, and easier to get approved while being perfectly acceptable for most workloads.
In the current climate I think the less project approvals you need to get the better
From reddit - "Right now, Yandex's biggest services are down: taxis, delivery, and Alisa. Moscow is paralyzed; it's impossible to order a taxi. Orders aren't going through."
7. We suffer few losses, the enemy's losses are considerable
Morelli explains this principle or commandment as follows: "With rare exceptions, people tend to join the victorious cause. In the case of war, the preference of public opinion depends very much on the apparent results of the conflict. If the results are not good, the propaganda must disguise our losses and exaggerate those of the enemy." [0]
lapkaaaa | 7 hours ago
Legend2440 | 7 hours ago
Not just for datacenters either - warehouses, refineries, power stations, you could sell to anybody with a building full of expensive stuff.
mrweasel | 7 hours ago
mschuster91 | 3 hours ago
throwaway85825 | 7 hours ago
jcfrei | 6 hours ago
rithdmc | 6 hours ago
Legend2440 | 6 hours ago
Drone attacks on US soil are (hopefully!) not happening anytime soon.
dudefeliciano | 6 hours ago
So...the west if we go by the recent statements of chancellor Merz
dylan604 | 5 hours ago
cucumber3732842 | 5 hours ago
dylan604 | 5 hours ago
bot403 | 4 hours ago
dylan604 | 3 hours ago
drnick1 | 5 hours ago
This would be incredibly stupid. An attack on American soil could be met with a literally nuclear response against Iran or whoever perpetrated it.
dualvariable | 5 hours ago
(We did nominally succeed in regime change in the country that didn't attack us, though...)
drnick1 | 4 hours ago
It wasn't Afghanistan (as a nation) that directly carried out 9/11. The government did have close ties with Al Qaeda and sheltered it though.
thinkcontext | 4 hours ago
drnick1 | 2 hours ago
iAMkenough | 4 hours ago
Prediction markets are betting on a false flag attack around midterms.
thinkcontext | 3 hours ago
thinkcontext | 3 hours ago
jameshart | 7 hours ago
scrollaway | 5 hours ago
delecti | 7 hours ago
flohofwoe | 6 hours ago
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2026/05/28/russia-lets-privat...
odiroot | 7 hours ago
qizzup | 7 hours ago
ofjcihen | 6 hours ago
GoofGarage | 4 hours ago
We felt a lot of it was… unnervingly believable in multiple aspects. As in, what parent mentioned.
I do not look forward to the “Seretech Decision” (https://shadowrun.fandom.com/wiki/Seretech_Decision), “Shiawase Decision” (https://shadowrun.fandom.com/wiki/Shiawase_Decision) or similar sorts of judicial rulings in the real world. True nightmare fuel.
——-
Somewhat… prescient, is the Shiawase Decision.
This was the result of what unfolded after regional electricity prices spiked (550%) after a corporation decided to take a lot of local power for itself.
After local opposition began forming, Shiawase Corporation made a false flag attack against itself to influence a future ruling where it could then defend itself similar to a sovereign nation in a foreign land. So full corporate “extraterritoriality”, to where maintaining its own regulated militia/defense force would be legally free and clear.
RealityVoid | 7 hours ago
I'd invest in digging equipment for the next war.
clan | 7 hours ago
RealityVoid | 6 hours ago
jcfrei | 6 hours ago
Legend2440 | 6 hours ago
2OEH8eoCRo0 | 5 hours ago
dylan604 | 5 hours ago
RealityVoid | 5 hours ago
dylan604 | 5 hours ago
RealityVoid | 3 hours ago
Legend2440 | 5 hours ago
No reasonable amount of quadcopters could match a bunker-buster. Surface explosions are not very effective against buried targets.
The weight and density of the bunker-buster is extremely important to its operation. When dropped from a high altitude, it breaks into the bunker with sheer kinetic force, and then explodes once inside.
dylan604 | 5 hours ago
nradov | 5 hours ago
cucumber3732842 | 5 hours ago
How long do I have to piss on a steel plate to get the same effect as a waterjet cutter?
About the same answer.
numpad0 | 6 hours ago
bookofjoe | 6 hours ago
rithdmc | 6 hours ago
drnick1 | 5 hours ago
It did not help the Iranians and their nuclear facilities.
cheney_2004 | 7 hours ago
Arubis | 7 hours ago
That said, I’m in agreement in principle. A lot of what you’re asking for is statecraft, and doing that with a profit model is brittle to corruption. But I’d greatly prefer to see folks trying to build things on hope then on bloodshed.
libertine | 6 hours ago
dylan604 | 5 hours ago
toomuchtodo | 7 hours ago
If your strategy assumes you can succeed against Iron Dome (which, I argue, is the state of the art for available air defense system), you should always be able to win as an attacker. Just have to test defenses ahead of time to understand level of effort required (munition capabilities, cadence, and quantity required, broadly speaking).
https://missilethreat.csis.org/countermeasures-penetration-a...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
doublerabbit | 7 hours ago
Obelisks from Command and Conquer pinned to the roof of the DC would be amusing although personally I'm leaning towards prism towers.
toomuchtodo | 7 hours ago
If someone wants to take out a data center, they will likely succeed assuming they have the resources (probably military drones, but perhaps more traditional ballistic artillery). The world has become a more dangerous, volatile, and unpredictable place, for gestures broadly at everything reasons.
(thoughts, opinions, and threat model always my own)
dylan604 | 5 hours ago
numpad0 | 5 hours ago
toomuchtodo | 5 hours ago
idontwantthis | 7 hours ago
tokai | 7 hours ago
throwaway85825 | 7 hours ago
tokai | 6 hours ago
yolp5 | 6 hours ago
outside1234 | 6 hours ago
HlessClaudesman | 6 hours ago
InsideOutSanta | 6 hours ago
ahartmetz | 6 hours ago
klvino | 6 hours ago
omgwtfbyobbq | 6 hours ago
Whatever isn't used/destroyed could be recovered wherever it lands after a day or two.
It should be less expensive a possibly more effective in certain circumstances because of increased carrying capacity.
numpad0 | 6 hours ago
The US State Department will throw everything at you if you dare tried to build or possess your own guided guns and rockets, even if you were not from or in the US - because there was a US ally that exported a near-orbital solid motor sounding rocket to a Balkan nation with full factory setup and manufacturing training services without asking anybody in particular, which resulted in the recipient nation achieving prototype production and successful live fire tests of an indigenous surface to air missile system comparable to Soviet S-75 strategic SAM that was eventually selected.
If it weren't for those pile of laws and leverages... building a SAM was doable since 1950s.
idiotsecant | 6 hours ago
joquarky | 5 hours ago
axus | 6 hours ago
Though someone like Amazon will have to calculate, is the 50-year cost of protecting all facilities less than the 50-year cost of rebuilding the ones that are destroyed?
asanineassasin | 6 hours ago
SyneRyder | 6 hours ago
HarHarVeryFunny | 4 hours ago
Apparently not all AWS resources/services are redundant - some are advertised as single location, and then it's up to the customer whether they choose to pay to make backups elsewhere (e.g. in a different region) or not.
nradov | 5 hours ago
https://www.spacex.com/spacexai/starmind
libertine | 5 hours ago
As for the satellites they can be jammed and there's not much you can do about it.
axus | 5 hours ago
I feel like China and US are the only ones in the next 50 years who'll have launch capability cheap enough to hit satellites.
bot403 | 4 hours ago
nradov | 4 hours ago
libertine | 3 hours ago
I don't get the defense argument for space data centers.
joquarky | 5 hours ago
dualvariable | 4 hours ago
nradov | 4 hours ago
dualvariable | 4 hours ago
An event at one orbital altitude is also not confined to that altitude; debris can reach higher altitudes and affect satellites in those orbits.
asanineassasin | 6 hours ago
dylan604 | 5 hours ago
tim333 | 3 hours ago
cyanydeez | 7 hours ago
majorchord | 7 hours ago
breppp | 7 hours ago
r721 | 7 hours ago
>Scottish independence accounts go dark after Iran internet blackout
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/01/12/scottish-ind...
lsofzz | 7 hours ago
thinkcontext | 7 hours ago
bayindirh | 7 hours ago
idontwantthis | 7 hours ago
bayindirh | 6 hours ago
I'm not a fan of wars, regardless of where they happen. OTOH, I still believe you can fight relatively clean or be an unethical bully. If the war is unavoidable, I prefer to be the former.
I also commend Ukraine's ingenuity and bravery, as well.
ifwinterco | 6 hours ago
senderista | 5 hours ago
petrovkli | 4 hours ago
senderista | 3 hours ago
rightbyte | 4 hours ago
dizhn | 7 hours ago
I haven't seen any site I frequent mention this once. The PR bubble is very real.
tokai | 6 hours ago
stickfigure | 6 hours ago
olexsmir | 6 hours ago
thinkcontext | 4 hours ago
Do the sites you frequent mention that Russia does double tap strikes to kill civilian first responders or that they have stolen thousands of Ukrainian children?
HarHarVeryFunny | 6 hours ago
Whatever is happening now is payback for Putin's birthday present to himself from 2 days ago, firing a missile into a Ukrainian apartment building that killed 22 civilians (mostly women & children).
senderista | 5 hours ago
af78 | 4 hours ago
HarHarVeryFunny | 4 hours ago
senderista | 3 hours ago
HarHarVeryFunny | 3 hours ago
Cutting off the enemy supply line is a classic and obvious military strategy. Ukraine didn't choose to be attacked, nor did they choose for Wildberries to become part of the supply line. They are playing the cards they were dealt, and I would say doing so with remarkable restraint.
arpinum | 7 hours ago
bpodgursky | 7 hours ago
jameshart | 7 hours ago
SXX | 7 hours ago
Also unlike in Ukraine local organizations are required to run on infrastructure inside country by law and even major peering points are very centralised. Connections between Russia and other countries are even more centralised.
So it doesnt matter in what order datacenters going to be destroyed. Ukraine just need to take down enough of them.
bbor | 7 hours ago
So I'd say the goal here is to intimidate and/or inconvenience the Russian public and general economy, which is the main way they'll advance a war against a country they are forbidden from invading to any semi-meaningful degree (due to nukes). Permenantly destroying data would be nice, sure, but service interruption is already such a huge win that it'd be a marginal improvement only, IMHO.
That is, unless there are cloud-native banks without backups, which... yikes! Possible, I suppose?
SXX | 7 hours ago
ceejayoz | 6 hours ago
SXX | 6 hours ago
Adding 200ms of latency wont affect anyone living much and China will happily sell datacenter capacity to it's vassal state.
Scoundreller | 5 hours ago
Aozora7 | 6 hours ago
ndom91 | 5 hours ago
dualvariable | 4 hours ago
Nope, the Russian public is mostly entirely checked out of politics and will roll with any inconvenience. You won't see any rioting in the streets due to this.
The point is to inflict economic harm on the elite around Putin--the owners of Yandex, the other companies using those datacenters, etc.
The point is not to take out the average Russian's internet search index.
A more important goal is for these strikes to get headlines and serve as Western-facing propaganda, with "hitting Russia's Google" and "hitting Russia's Amazon" being easily digestible for those in Europe and America. That still beats the effect this will have on the average Russian.
Russia isn't a Western Democracy.
bbor | 3 hours ago
chmod775 | 7 hours ago
arpinum | 4 hours ago
chmod775 | 4 hours ago
That's a pretty tall assumption when every other customer is trying to copy their own data at the same time through the same tiny pipes and off the same spinning rust.
The typical customer also doesn't do their own backups, but rather relies on the infrastructure provider (that's a major selling point after all).
If we take the damaged Amazon data center in SA or the OVH fire as data points, the timeline appears to be measured in weeks and months, rather than hours.
In any case, I doubt that in 2 days most larger companies could even figure out where their data is and develop a strategy to copy it.
tokai | 7 hours ago
HarHarVeryFunny | 6 hours ago
cma | 6 hours ago
HarHarVeryFunny | 4 hours ago
Ukraine only has limited number of more capable missiles/drones like Flamingo FP-5 and Neptune, although now the FP-7 is about to hit volume production, followed by the FP-9, as well as Europe-supplied missile and anti-missile systems, so it remains to be seen if this will change Ukraine's strategy ... I tend to doubt it - they will have firepower to retaliate much harder, and at further distance, when they want to, but I expect they don't want to unilaterally escalate.
Scoundreller | 5 hours ago
Also why I think governments should mass-produce & subsidize blow-molded 25L plastic gas cans instead of building centralized storage tanks/caverns. No way those things cost anywhere near US$25 to make.
HarHarVeryFunny | 4 hours ago
Scoundreller | an hour ago
pftburger | 7 hours ago
idontwantthis | 7 hours ago
doublerabbit | 6 hours ago
https://united24media.com/world/yandex-hides-all-four-cloud-...
WarmWash | 7 hours ago
The ideal is turning on Putin, but what does that even look like? The guy has 9 layers of isolation, a carefully curated and frequently culled leadership, and a robust propaganda department.
So at the breaking point, will Russians storm the capital or storm Ukraine?
squidbeak | 7 hours ago
It seems to have somehow escaped your notice that Russia has been storming Ukraine for almost 5 years.
TiredOfLife | 5 hours ago
WarmWash | 5 hours ago
There is a (massive) difference between soldiers there to get a paycheck, and soldiers there to avenge their communities.
stasgavrylov | 5 hours ago
WarmWash | 5 hours ago
petrovkli | 4 hours ago
speransky | 6 hours ago
stickfigure | 6 hours ago
darkwi11ow | 6 hours ago
Second, the opinion of citizen does not count in russia anyway. It is an opinion of oligarchs and people in control that matters. Putin and his cronies are in their 70s and will go away soon. Whoever replaces the fuhrer and his clique needs to understand that messing with Ukraine is very costly affair. The more destruction is unleashed on russia now, the less bellirigent it will be in the future.
renyicircle | 6 hours ago
In which ways does the situation where "most Russians turn on Ukraine" differ from the current reality?
konart | 5 hours ago
https://wciom.ru/analytical-reviews/analiticheskii-obzor/spe...
booris | 4 hours ago
konart | 28 minutes ago
Grollicus | 6 hours ago
pphysch | 6 hours ago
After Nord Stream, we all know what those maniacs are capable of.
libertine | 6 hours ago
All for some messed up sense of ethnic superiority.
[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russo-Ukrain...
senderista | 5 hours ago
Grollicus | 5 hours ago
TrueRider | 5 hours ago
libertine | 5 hours ago
Or you're going to okay the card that every organization is in cahoots in the big American conspiracy to control the world?
Could it be that it's maybe you the victim of propaganda?
TrueRider | 3 hours ago
So, where this facts in YOUR honest Wikipedia?
libertine | 2 hours ago
Most like because they thought Ukraine was going to capitulate in few days, and they could hide the crimes of genocide, like it was done in the past.
That's how sickening this was, because Russia thought they were going to get away with it, they were just executing civilians for fun.
The whole world watched this in real time.
It's evil in at it's worst, for some sick illusion of ethnic superiority.
History will not forget this.
krior | 5 hours ago
binlog | 6 hours ago
As opposed to right now where they are the best of friends?
WarmWash | 5 hours ago
So my fear is that Ukraine attacking Russian societal pillars will begin to manifest animosity.
booris | 4 hours ago
binlog | 2 hours ago
Or they are anti-war but helpless to stop it, in which case retaliation to defend yourself is also good.
Either way if your country's existence is threatened and your people are being killed you don't sit back and do nothing because you are scared it'll make the attacker unhappy.
olexsmir | 6 hours ago
rjsw | 6 hours ago
mrguyorama | 3 hours ago
The only value his coup provided to Ukraine was being a distraction. If they had succeeded, the war would have continued.
1970-01-01 | 6 hours ago
tryauuum | 6 hours ago
yes if you could magically organize 10_000 people they could overthrow anyone. But organizing is hard. Starting from a fact that they need some secure comminution channel, and the government fights VPN quite actively. How would you reach these potential people? You could do sort of broadcast a public message "if you don't like tsar let's take a walk tomorrow" but this signal would also be received by the police, so they can prepare. And we don't have the beautiful gun ownership culture of America.
And if you do something alone you just perish in prison.
1970-01-01 | 5 hours ago
tryauuum | 5 hours ago
machomaster | 4 hours ago
TrueRider | 5 hours ago
"The problem is that Europeans are too afraid to turn on their motherland "reasons," but that is exactly what has to happen to end to illegal migration. Hard to take medicine is indeed hard to take at first, but things are not getting better without it."
PestoDiRucola | 5 hours ago
cmrdporcupine | 6 hours ago
AlienRobot | 6 hours ago
TrueRider | 5 hours ago
libertine | 6 hours ago
Yet they closed their eyes to everything, from the destruction of freedom of press, to corruption, even to political alternatives not being allowed, even to the war.
Aozora7 | 5 hours ago
Russians may believe a lot of bullshit from TV, but when it comes to decisions that impact their own life, they act surprisingly rationally, and become very skeptical of anything the government says.
PestoDiRucola | 5 hours ago
Who cares. Their government started this, and by all accounts most of their population supports, or is indifferent to it. They made their bed and they can now lie in it.
> So at the breaking point, will Russians storm the capital or storm Ukraine?
They've been storming Ukraine for the past 4 years now.
Kinrany | 5 hours ago
timmytokyo | 5 hours ago
machomaster | 4 hours ago
It never amazes me to encounter people who still don't know that Russia is not a democracy, that Russians have no voice and can't influence the direction of the country, that Russia has no elections and Putin (self-proclaimed President) is not a democratically elected leader.
Seems like the majority of people are uneducated to this extreme degree. Including the very highest leaders of the EU and the USA.
reeredfdfdf | 4 hours ago
What are we Europeans supposed to do anyway? Negotiate about peace with leadership that isn't interested in peace? If history teaches us anything, it is that Russia's leadership respects only military force.
I'm not blaming ordinary Russians who indeed have very little power over anything, except that significant portion of them who support the war. But I am blaming the oligarchy, the elites who actually have some power, and yet let things continue like this.
mopsi | 3 hours ago
Russian history offers an excellent counterexample in the downfall of the USSR when Gorbachev and others lost their legitimacy. Formally, they remained the top figures in the government; in practice, people gradually stopped following them over a period of a few years as everything was disintegrating (shortage of basic products, pointless war in Afghanistan, disasters like Chernobyl, etc). The people simply chose new leaders from among themselves and turned their backs to Moscow.
For example, a police station might've simply ignored orders from the ministry of internal affairs and instead followed the recommendations of a popular local figure (often a factory manager, uni professor, journalist, artist or writer). As districts increasingly acted this way, Moscow gradually lost control over the police force, which became decentralized and locally run. In the end, bosses in Moscow could yell all they wanted into a phone, but that did not move a single police officer on the ground.
Russian central government is currently nowhere near such loss of legitimacy. Tens of millions of people carry out the orders of their Führer every day. Some have stepped into a foreign country while carrying a gun. Others are milling artillery shells or programming cruise missiles. Some are sitting on HN trying to convince the world how their Führer has no other option than to murder Ukrainian children every night.
There is no pushback worth mentioning. Last year, out of 140 million people living in Russia, only 38 were arrested for anti-war protests. Add a few hundred more for anti-war posts on the social media. Completely insignificant numbers. Russians on HN will gladly explain how oppressive the climate in Russia has become and how difficult (gasp!) it is to protest, but they fail to recognize the downstream effects: that Ukrainians have to pay with their lives every single day for the cancer that the cowardice of Russians has unleashed. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are in mortal danger right now on the frontline, trying to stop what Russians are too afraid to confront themselves.
TiredOfLife | an hour ago
tencentshill | 3 hours ago
drysine | 3 hours ago
That's too late for that fear. Ukrainian strikes on refineries and "Russian Amazon's" warehouses have already changed the sentiment. That's a great gift from Zelensky to Putin.
renyicircle | 7 hours ago
petcat | 6 hours ago
And the quality of targeting is almost entirely because of extensive USA intelligence sharing:
> According to American and Ukrainian officials familiar with the operations:
> Ukraine selects targets, although American intelligence reportedly also helps identify high-priority facilities.
> The US identifies vulnerabilities at Russian energy installations.
> American intelligence assists with mission planning, including routes, altitude, and timing to help Ukrainian drones evade Russian air defenses.
> US involvement extends across multiple stages of planning, according to three people familiar with the operations.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-intelligence-helps-u...
renyicircle | 6 hours ago
asanineassasin | 6 hours ago
SV_BubbleTime | 5 hours ago
Translated, we give them the missiles, we give them the intelligence, we give them the target, we set it up… we let them push the red button.
bdnk1 | 5 hours ago
petcat | 5 hours ago
They're just using USA as political cover, which is how it has always been been. USA warned Europe for decades not to become reliant on cheap Russian gas because it would be weaponized against them. The Biden administration even sanctioned German companies [1] building Nordstream 2 because it was a Russian geopolitical project.
We see how it all turned out.
[1] https://2021-2025.state.gov/nord-stream-2-and-potential-sanc...
reeredfdfdf | 4 hours ago
It's too bad Eastern Germany never managed to deruzzify itself properly after DDR fell.
thinkcontext | 4 hours ago
pessimizer | 4 hours ago
Europe is most certainly not doing this. Trump isn't even serious, he's just "telling them to stop" in order to aid European anti-Trump propaganda which is used in Europe ironically to support US interests. Trump doesn't care that diesel is going up, especially because his friends are selling it. Cutting off Russian ability to join in this smorgasbord by causing a local diesel shortage for them also cuts off any concern he could possibly have about diesel prices.
Notice that he didn't end US diesel exports, he entertained the idea.
If Europe thinks they're "in this alone," and Europe is the "only one left" who will "defend" Ukraine, then Europe has to rearm in fear and figure out how to send more support to Ukraine, like to cut social services and ignore their heat/power bills to do it (and to steal from Russian accounts, which is being debated again.)
They will buy the weapons from the US, they will shore up the Ukraine war for the US, the will buy more LNG from the US, they will destroy local anti-US politicians for the US in favor of NATO, all to own Trump. Remember, Trump "hates" NATO. Not that he doesn't support everything they're doing, he's just threatened to stop paying for it i.e. they'll serve us for free. He's going to build a Ukraine War, and Europe's going to pay for it.
As a tactic, it was obvious why the US/Ukraine had to be aggressive right now; not only is Russia doing exceedingly well financially due to what the dumb Iran War did to prices, but winter is coming. For Ukraine, they were convinced that this was their last chance to make an impact before they were frozen. For the US it was an opportunity to burn weapons (so we can grab US taxes to make more), to get Russia to stop exports (because LNG goes up in Europe, and US oil goes up in general) and lastly and maybe most importantly to raise political support in Russia for strikes to civilian infrastructure. Putin is the conservative in Russia, and the politicians who are against him are demanding that he escalate rather than continue to bleed Russian lives forever.
If the US can convince Russia, who has been very gentle with Ukrainian civilian infrastructure, to destroy Ukrainian power going into the winter, the misery and death that will hit Ukrainians will be talked about for the next century (barring an big warming effect of the extreme El Niño.) That might fire up Europe even more into a delusionally belligerent frenzy (European NATO elites are losing the population), and possibly shore up support for more spending on Ukraine in the US itself. The US has suffered through a distinct lack of Russian atrocities in Ukraine, and this would be a great time to get some.
petcat | 3 hours ago
https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2026/09/25/72462...
nistiminic | 3 hours ago
petcat | 3 hours ago
> Europe is asking Ukraine to halt destruction of Russia's oil infrastructure.
> Europe is not asking for this.
> France is asking Ukraine to halt destruction of Russia's oil infrastructure.
> No true European is asking for this.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
nistiminic | an hour ago
You are correct that indeed France made the proposal that Russia stops destroying Ukrainian energy infrastructure and Ukraine would do the same thing. France as a country has that right to make such proposals. That doesn't make it a request or proposal at the EU level.
I have no idea how the no true scotsman fallacy applies to this. Maybe I'm missing something here
toonvanvr | 5 hours ago
Are you sure the missiles are support?
tim333 | 3 hours ago
The ones hitting the data centers are I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Point_FP-1
I don't think the US even has any like that to give.
The long range strikes only started after Trump's "you have no cards" oval office shindig where he basically told Zelensky to surrender and cut aid. After that Trump lost a lot of influence to protect Russia.
senderista | 5 hours ago
petcat | 5 hours ago
dualvariable | 5 hours ago
When the Soviets went into Afghanistan, the mujahideen did not have the domestic capability to build Stinger missiles themselves...
pi-rat | 6 hours ago
binlog | 6 hours ago
9cb14c1ec0 | 6 hours ago
pi-rat | 6 hours ago
Zigurd | 5 hours ago
hiddencost | 6 hours ago
It's probably one of the safest places on the planet.
speedgoose | 5 hours ago
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquis_shrubland
booris | 4 hours ago
Zigurd | 5 hours ago
nixass | 6 hours ago
outside1234 | 6 hours ago
machomaster | 4 hours ago
drewg123 | 6 hours ago
biesnecker | 6 hours ago
SXX | 6 hours ago
Nebius which is basically was out-of-Russia part Yandex is now larger than what left of Yandex in Russia.
petrovkli | 4 hours ago
brianwawok | 6 hours ago
bayindirh | 6 hours ago
drewg123 | 6 hours ago
bayindirh | 6 hours ago
If you need high performance or AI operations... GLHF!
Scoundreller | 5 hours ago
bayindirh | 4 hours ago
Asking for a friend. ;)
ACCount39 | 24 minutes ago
HackerThemAll | 6 hours ago
ACCount39 | 6 hours ago
As is often the case, embargoes don't make things impossible - but they do add friction. Longer lead times, "grey market partner" premiums. People who supply Russian companies with hardware get to pad their pockets - and while they have ties in Russia, for obvious reasons, they prefer to keep those padded pockets outside Russia itself.
It's even worse for bleeding edge in-demand extra-controlled hardware like modern AI systems.
tryauuum | 6 hours ago
But how many of them exist and how easy is to replace, I have no idea
PeterCorless | 6 hours ago
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/techland/drone-and-data-ce...
bojan | 6 hours ago
user32489318 | 6 hours ago
ehwa37 | 5 hours ago
bojan | 2 hours ago
ehwa37 | 25 minutes ago
oulipo | 5 hours ago
we want a safe a decentralized infrastructure
machomaster | 5 hours ago
Also, attack on a nuclear station is such a drastic and severe thing that it counts as the use of nuclear weapons. And if we are at that stage, it's a bit silly to worry about small things.
rightbyte | 4 hours ago
bluedino | 5 hours ago
Steltek | 3 hours ago
nonethewiser | 3 hours ago
>I think most of the opposition really wants is stability and a return to normality. Blowing shit up is diametrically opposed to that goal.
So there isnt terrorism because most opposition dont want to blow up data centers? You are identifying opposition as potential domestic terrorists. As opposed to saying there just arent these type of domestic terrorists. Which have nothing to do with normal opposition.
And then you seem to imply there may be reason to resort to domestic terrorism?!
>Maybe only once most people realize that normality isn't coming back will that change.
duxup | 3 hours ago
When I used to work with US bank and financial institutions we used to do "disaster recovery tests" and it effectively meant they shut off a whole site and ran on their backups to see what happened.
edelbitter | 30 minutes ago
Now that you can stuff an entire room with only high-G-resistant solid state drives, there should be fewer excuses for losing machines before determining a fire suppression system to be either inoperable or insufficient (but never tested and measured under realistic conditions).
RIMR | 5 hours ago
Here's a better source: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-yandex-says-sec...
phainopepla2 | 5 hours ago
(looks like they changed "center" to "centre")
nalekberov | 5 hours ago
RomanPushkin | 5 hours ago
April 27, 2020:
"Yandex highlighted negative articles about Navalny in its search results; the company called it an "experiment."
https://zona-media.translate.goog/news/2020/04/27/navyandex?...
throw-the-towel | 5 hours ago
sam_lowry_ | 3 hours ago
elmer2 | 5 hours ago
layer8 | 5 hours ago
flerchin | 5 hours ago
wewewedxfgdf | 5 hours ago
It's a totally different situation - they're at war.
gumby | 4 hours ago
“Data centers” need not be hyper-centralized. There’s an economy of scale of course, both in the building itself and in very local transmission. But all scale curves have knees, and one is survivability.
It’s possible a bunch of smaller 10 MW DCs might be faster to build, more survivable, and easier to get approved while being perfectly acceptable for most workloads.
[OP] ortusdux | 4 hours ago
nonethewiser | 3 hours ago
In the current climate I think the less project approvals you need to get the better
[OP] ortusdux | 4 hours ago
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1x1q...
drysine | 3 hours ago
tasuki | an hour ago
drysine | 17 minutes ago
Morelli explains this principle or commandment as follows: "With rare exceptions, people tend to join the victorious cause. In the case of war, the preference of public opinion depends very much on the apparent results of the conflict. If the results are not good, the propaganda must disguise our losses and exaggerate those of the enemy." [0]
It's the same in Russia, if you are wondering
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Basic_Principles_of_War_Pr...