Nope - that was Gen X. We got front row seats to the peak of prosperity of our parents and the tipping point into the downward slide. We were the first generation to observe big money consuming everything of quality and then shitting it back on us as quantity.
Depends. Anecdotally, it feels true but statistically it's inaccurate
Early GenX got enough of the last vapors of the economy the baby boomers enjoyed. Later GenX is more in line with what Millennials are experiencing.
Speaking as one of those late GenX people, we're personally doing OK. But I'm well educated and paid. A lot of my cousins/friends/etc are barely able to make ends meet with double white collar incomes coming into one household.
Yeah, started in the 80’s as far as I can remember. Wages stagnated and everything got more expensive. By the time I graduated college I thought ‘how the fuck did we have a four bedroom house, three cars and trips to Disneyland on my dads income?’
I mean, most of Gen X made it in just under the wire and still got most of the upsides to the economic run from the 70s through the financial crisis in the 2000s. They got to watch all the subsequent generations lose out. They still got most of the benefits.
I’m Gen X and on pace to retire earlier than my father did with more money than my father had. I work more hours than he did, but I feel it will be worth it.
Substantial? An evaporating middle class, driven by working wage stagnation and increasing corporate profits year after year for 4+ decades is probably a good place to start. I’m sure there’s more.
Declining household savings rates, increasing household debt, runaway inflation caused by corporate profiteering, younger generations increasingly unable to afford to buy a house, younger generations putting off having kids because they can’t afford to. Unless you’re one of those people that thinks younger people can’t buy a house because they’re too busy spending all their income in avocado toast, these data are clear.
If he is indeed a mail carrier he's doing alright. I can vouch, I'm a mail carrier as well. Except like him and myself we both aren't table 1 carriers.
This article states the average home price in 1980 was $200k and now it is $325k and uses it as one of the primary reasons Millennials are worse off now.
Interest rates in 1980 was 15-19% and now they are around 7%. So it is actually cheaper to own the average house currently.
Seems like millennials have better pay and more productive jobs, they’re just immobilized by our horrible housing system. Home owners have created an environment where home prices are supposed to rise forever and new housing is to be as scarce as possible.
They may have "better pay" but with the cost of everything, not just housing, that pay doesn't mean anything. Our dollar doesn't go anywhere near as far as it did when the boomers were doing their thing. They could work at grocery stores, buy houses, go to college, buy cars for very little of a percentageof their annual income. That's not possible this day and age without going into crippling debt.
Yeah. Will add that there's more shit we're buying on top of that. Not even frivolous stuff, Like. there's more survival things now.
Internet, phone service, insurance, insurance to add to your insurance, child care, student loans/startup loans (arguable but in 80% of cases a requirment for gainful employment)
Can't think of others but I'm sure they're in there.
Looking at myself and my peers (all 30 somethings now), everyone works but is crippled by housing costs. A system where nobody is having kids because housing is too expensive is an economic apocalypse in slow motion.
The assumption that people aren't having kids because of housing costs is not necessarily true. It might even be convenient lie people tell themselves.
Japan doesn't have nearly the housing or COL issue that the US does but they have few kids. Singapore has one the best managed real estate markets in the world with homeownership rate near 90% and they have a birthrate of 1.1 per woman. Mexico birthrate has dropped all the way down to 2.08 - right around replacement rate - and Brazil is at 1.7.
This is a global trend that is most likely due to things like more education, women's rights, and a shift in norms.
Japan has other cost associated with having kids. Especially their living to work salaryman culture, cultural mistreatment of women etc. everyone has different reasons.
Yeah, that's what I said - it's complex and multivariable and we can't just look at the US and say "ah ha it's housing causing this."
Getting married younger would offset housing costs (2 people in a room is much cheaper) but we see delays in marriage. Marriage is a financial benefit but young people aren't taking it so I find the claim that birth rates are largely based on COL a dubious claim.
If we had enough houses, then the cost of housing would go down and people would be able to buy them instead of paying rent. People will either work to solve the problem, or they will stand around and whine about the problem. Millennials like to stand around and whine, although not to the extent of Gen Z.
Bullshit. Im in school to be a vet right now because working as a professional chef makes me about a dollar more than McDonald's makes near me. If you consider the cost of things and inflation, I promise you even the generation above us made more.
Adjusted for inflation, pay is stagnant. Productivity is way up, but capital has taken basically all of the gains, sharing little to nothing with labor. On top of that, Millennials had to go to college to produce those productivity increases, and their (our) education expenses were vastly higher than our parents'. Now that we're out in the working world, all the expenses associated with young adulthood and, especially, middle age are vastly higher adjusted for inflation than our parents: housing, childcare, medical care, education for our kids.
The list is long, but the root causes are basically the same: the failed policies of the hard right that swept into power in 1980. Dishonorable mention to the unwillingness of centrists to roll back any right-wing initiative, or propose any solutions noticeably left of that prevailing "consensus" created by the right wing since 1980.
Sounds like the ratchet effect. Second thought does a good video on YouTube about it and how democrats keep the us from moving left while simultaneously maintaining the republicans rightward movement .
So it is the Right’s fault that you went to a college you couldn’t afford, got a degree that didn’t pay enough, and now cannot live the life your parents promised you? If your debt is crippling, join the peace corps or teach in a poor district for a year to get it forgiven. No one stuck a gun to your head and made you borrow that money.
The real question is why did the government make all these loans available which increased the cost of a degree (college budgets bursting at the seems to pay thousands of useless bureaucratic assistant Dean positions)? You can make $100,000 a year today driving a big rig.
Ohhhh there it is. I was with you all the way up to your political bent. Don’t blame the right only, the left is just as culpable. It’s more that the people in power vote for their own interests. Left or right they were all making policy to better their generation at the cost of the future generations. Left leaning policies redistributing wealth came at the cost of gov debt.guess where that debt goes… to the future.
Their dying out though. Hopefully another 6 -10 years of their screaming death cries. Just hope millennials don’t become known as the forgetter generation.
Yeah shit would be better, or at least stagnant, if not for housing. It's a mess. It was hidden from view for a while because of low interest rates, but it's gone absolutely bananas in the last 10 years (and especially the last 2 years).
Where I live, the house I grew up in now costs 1.6 million dollars. My dad bought it on a single income (stay at home mom) in the 80s for an inflation adjusted 360,000. I couldn't buy it now even on a double income. That's in the suburbs of a medium sized Canadian city of 500,000 people.
If you think it's bad where you live, it can get this bad and it will get this bad until zoning/permit reform happens.
I don't see how the most important expense in your whole life isn't front and centre in the current cost of living discussion. If the cost of that goes up by almost 5x, you're basically impoverished compared to your parents.
Disagree. A major issue is the millennials want the house their parents have now, not the house their parents had starting out (which was often a basement apartment in their parents house). Nothing wrong with multiple generations living in a house while the younger generation gets on their feet.
As far as I understand it, salaries have not kept up with inflation and cost of living. Millennials have far lower pay relative to everything else than the last two generations. Most millennials aren’t working high paying tech jobs but all of them are affected by the absurd real estate market and the increasing cost of… well everything.
Home prices are high everywhere, not just in the US. We’re actually lagging many places such as Canada and Australia. Borrowing has become too cheap and over regulation on new housing has made it unaffordable
Boomers say:“Go to college, pay for it with loans like I did, you’ll get a great job out of school and you’ll be able to afford a house.”
Millennials: got a degree, have $80K in student debt, “Chemist, entry level,
$15/hr, must have 2 years experience.” Can’t afford shit, cost of living rising too fast. Can’t afford student loans if I were paying them off.
Boomers: “iT wAs YoUr CHoIce to GeT a DeGrEE! YoU aRe an ADuLt at 18 ANd yOU sHoUlD haVe kNoWn tHe ConSeQuenCes of sTUdeNt LoaNs”
Millennials: vote overwhelmingly democrat
Boomers: “you’re not old or mature enough to vote at 18, we should raise the voting age to 21 so we can fuck over Gen Z too”
Eventually when their parents die, it will be the biggest transfer of wealth in history. Millennials will make out well but will have to wait a few decades for the redistribution.
I'm 46 not a baby boomer or millennial. I'll probably die at my desk. My savings is getting eaten away. Housing is taken most of my paycheck. I went to college, go to work every day, saved for a rainy 6 months , no I didn't save for a rainy 5 years. The past 5 years has just been a perfect storm of disaster for me. Everything that could go wrong or come to bare has.
I saw this happen first hand with my grandparents. Only the richest Boomers will be leaving inheritance. The vast majority of Millennials shouldn’t count on getting anything. Getting old and dying is extremely expensive.
Most boomers I know (my parent and friends parents) all have said they want to spend their savings to have fun in retirement and plan on leaving their kids nothing.
Inheritance is overrated. Yeah I could have used the money in my 20s but I could very well be in my 50s or even 60s when they pass. I won't need it then.
I’ve started transferring some of mine to my kid now (she is 20). In the US you can transfer $16K per year with no taxes. I’ve started to show her how to invest it, save it for a house down payment, how to start putting some of it towards her own retirement. No point in holding onto it and then giving it when I die.
Just fyi, you can gift more than 16k per year without tax implications. 16k is just the cutoff amount before it counts toward your 12.06 million lifetime exclusion.
Only those with boomer parents that have anything to leave them.
I’m on the young end of millennials and my mother is going to die just as penniless as she has lived, and I am not nearly the only one for whom this is true.
My parents and their siblings expected to inherit a house, but all of it went to hospice/nursing home. My mom's house is worth less than that one and I suspect it will be the exact same story.
Probably the likely scenario for many upper-middle to middle class Boomer families (ignoring the wealthy, here, since that’s a given). But there are likely many boomer families who won’t have much wealth to pass on to their children, unfortunately.
We have it easier in America today that we've ever had it.
Theres abundance everywhere. Yeah things are more expensive but you're also looking at money as resource rather than what resource is available to you currently for your consumption.
The people who spread the opposite rhetoric are often times going through personal struggles.
Idk about you but I as compared to other places in the world get to live a fantasy life and I appreciate it as such.
I give back to my communities as much as possible. Americans who say this type of shit "we are worse off" are insanely selfish.
Just a reminder your parents didn't have a TV, Cell Phone, Smart Car, Microwave dinners, Personal computers, fit-bits and they didn't have access to the revolutions it made for industry.
Abundance of goods is meaningless in the face of artificial housing scarcity and the subsequent extortion of renters income. Shelter is the foundation.
The comparison isn't about other parts of the world or whether things are "easier" today. It's about comparing one American generation's living standards vs another's which means jobs, incomes, housing, savings, retirement, etc.
And I have it waaaaaay easier than my parents or my grandparents today
My grandparents were born at the end of the depression Era and survived WW2.
Honestly. Go take a look in a history book. Talk to your elders about what they went through to get us to where we are at today and then tell me things are "too expensive" unaffordable.
Shit, my grandma lived actually literally for real in a chicken coop when she was a child.
But I? I live in a house, climate controlled, cable internet to video call people across the world with.
I also get paid to travel on airplanes and set up large TV and Musical productions lol
That's your experience. Stats show younger generations don't share your experience for the most part. Yes some things are "easier" but many others aren't. You may have a great life, that doesn't mean everyone else does too. Wages have largely been stagnant since the 70's when adjusted for inflation. Housing, education, and medical expenses have all far surpassed inflation. Requirements/competition to get good jobs have exploded with many jobs now requiring Masters degrees. That wasn't the case 50+ years ago.
>Wages have largely been stagnant since the 70's when adjusted for inflation. Housing, education, and medical expenses have all far surpassed inflation. Requirements/competition to get good jobs have exploded with many jobs now requiring Masters degrees. That wasn't the case 50+ years ago.
Inflation. You are again looking at the dollar as resource but we ended that in the 60s
Why? Because resource by itself doesn't have value. So when you talk to me about inflation I see the actual values of things for what they can BE AND not as raw materials.
That is why you see a reflection economically today.
Coltan rather than being a rock in Africa is a mother fucking circuit board.
1000x more effort is used to create things that make ease of life accessible to all. It's expensive. It's global and it isn't just America.
If you are struggling to live YOUR version of the dream here you should stop trying to seek out the others who feel aloof and start looking for the people who are successful in this culture.
Housing is the biggest. Places where people would generally be better off than their parents have restricted housing at the behest of current homeowners.
One that is discussed less is connected to people living and working longer. The age of executives have climbed. This doesn't just mean that younger people don't get those jobs but it means all jobs probably have become older people and so the whole business is aging and means more younger people are stuck in lower positions for longer than in the past.
Many people would move to cost of college next but I would rather focus on the increase in need of accreditation. That's because that increases demand and allows for higher prices. But take a personal assistant or an executive assistant. That job requires organization, communication, and occasionally some more complex skills. That has become largely a job that everyone has a degree. It's not needed.
This illusion that you are somehow entitled to a better life than your parents is a new and completely fabricated idea. This was never the case before in human history.
We had one generation that really saw incredible prosperity in the baby boomers. This prosperity came from a boom in a post war economy and tremendous opportunity as cities exploded with growth and we entered a second industrial revolution with the dawn of the computer age.
You don't live in that world and you need to get over it and deal with the hand your dealt. Housing is expensive in the cities that everyone wants to live in and that will never go back to how your parents had it (Go look at the urban vs. rural divide in the 50's and 60's compared to today). The dawn of the computer age and automation increased productivity and made your labor less valuable. That will never go back to how your parents had it.
There is no "path" that humanity has simply strayed off from and all we is a good politician or two to get us back on track. That is a fairytale. Life just happens. Civilization just happens. Conditions change. You have no right to prosperity. You have to make the best with what you have.
"That just sounds like a "fuck you I got mine" response"
It's not that I got mine, it's that no one gives a fuck that you didn't get yours. You are not owed anything.
This is such a strange take to me. I don’t think anyone is saying that they “deserve” anything. They are saying that the cards are stacked against them, that those before them took everything and left them with scraps, and that the government isn’t working for them.
Personally, I do give a shit that there are people that are not making enough to make ends meat. That people can’t afford housing because corporations have bought everything up. That minimum wage is often not enough to live on.
What, we’re supposed to just stand and take it because “we aren’t owed anything”?
My take isn't trying to argue that the cards aren't stacked against us vs. our parents and grandparents.
It's that the comparison to your parents is baseless. You want the same prosperity in a completely different set of conditions. The conditions are completely different and that it's not a simple fix. Waiting for politician to fix it is not going to get you anywhere. Booming, endless prosperity isn't the default setting for humanity.
The issue is that you think "We're not going to stand by and take it" means getting government to fix all of your problems as if these are just easily fixable missteps. You gloss over things like the rural v. urban divide and the effects of automation on the value of labor but those are the systematic problems that are driving the issues you raise that no government is going to fix.
Urban Land is worth more because everyone wants to live in the same few cities.
Your labor is worth less because we don't need unskilled labor to turn screws and file data.
You can sit there and hope some hero politician fixes all of these issues for the world or you can adapt to reality and figure out the path you need to take to prosper in the world today. Guess what, not being ahead of your parents doesn't mean you failed.
Yeah and honestly, while it’s a much harder path anyone who grew up with the average middle class life will also be able to obtain the average middle class life.
It’s really not that complicated. Get a degree that pays well (or go blue collar), do well in school, get internships, get a job right out of college, keep improving your skills and specializing, switch jobs every 1-2 years until you are making a really good wage, and save a lot of money for when your ready to buy a house. Yes having to do all that sucks and isn’t fun but it’s not complicated.
If you are finding that you can’t live the middle class lifestyle that your parents had, I would say that’s a result of poor choices (choosing a shit degree, working a shit paying job for too long instead of looking for higher paying ones, spending frivolously, etc) or not working hard (not getting good grades, not improving your skills, etc).
I always find the people complaining about this the loudest are always liberal arts majors. Your not hearing STEM or Welders complaining about being able to afford a house.
Your topic sentence says “many” Millennials are worse off than their parents. A first… blah blah blah. Every generation has “many” people who are worse off. Define many. Where did you get this nonsense notion? Some people make bad decisions. Some people have bad luck. Some people have bad parents that don’t sacrifice for their kids to do better. It’s also the Millennial generation who decided to rack up student loan debt to go to the best schools, instead of affordable ones. Millennials created the gig job, instead of buckling down and getting an 8-5 job and working their way into a career. It’s the Millennial generation that decided they “need” $1000 iPhones every two years and unlimited data. Meh, I’m bored.
You mean a generation that wants hands out and is anti-work isn’t doing well? This is absolutely shocking and no one could have possibly seen this coming. /s
And all of this is why this CPA executive is woke and antiwork. I may personally be more than fine, but most people are absolutely fucked by the current economic system. Even as an equity executive I am much closer to homelessness and the average worker than I am to the 400m net worth owner of our firm.
I’m not a boomer. Life isn’t that hard. Just have to invest in learning in-demand skills. Work isn’t about finding your calling. Work is about learning how to deliver something people will pay for. Always has been. What has changed is what is in-demand and the effort it takes to learn it.
I’m well aware of the disconnect between wage growth and inflated asset prices, particularly if you pick a career path that doesn’t have wage growth in excess of price inflation. I’m also not a boomer.
Edit: downvoting because you don’t like the facts doesn’t change the truth.
Because wage stagnation is not consistent across all classes of employment. Get a useful degree and you’ll find your wages grow faster than inflation. Get an overpriced degree from some private college using student loans so you can have a diploma in French history and I have little sympathy for your poor choices.
Millenials also are ready to receive the largest intergenerational transfer of wealth in recorded history, so while they may be worse off now, I believe that wont be long lasting.
Edit: not sure how stating a fact is controversial?
"Older generations will hand down some $70 trillion between 2018 and 2042, according to research and consulting firm Cerulli Associates. Roughly $61 trillion will go to heirs—increasingly millennials and Generation Xers—with the balance going to philanthropy
Edit 2: it seems everyone who disagreed with me deleted their comment. Didnt change their downvotes though...gotta love reddit lol
Once their parents are done with health care expenses (assisted living, etc), there may not be much left, hate to say it. For example, Medicare doesn’t insure for dental, eyes, or ears
You just know most of that wealth is only gonna go to a small percentage of millenials who won the genetic lottery by being born into families that are already rich.
"almost 40 percent of intergenerational transfers go to households that were in the top 10 percent of the income distribution in the year they received the transfer. Only about 20 percent of the total transfer amount goes to families in the bottom half of the income distribution."
But that wealth also tends to not be sticky for those who receive it
"Indeed, 70% of wealthy families lose their wealth by the second generation, and a stunning 90% by the third, according to the Williams Group wealth consultancy."
Carwash_Jimmy | 3 years ago
Nope - that was Gen X. We got front row seats to the peak of prosperity of our parents and the tipping point into the downward slide. We were the first generation to observe big money consuming everything of quality and then shitting it back on us as quantity.
Graphitetshirt | 3 years ago
Depends. Anecdotally, it feels true but statistically it's inaccurate
Early GenX got enough of the last vapors of the economy the baby boomers enjoyed. Later GenX is more in line with what Millennials are experiencing.
Speaking as one of those late GenX people, we're personally doing OK. But I'm well educated and paid. A lot of my cousins/friends/etc are barely able to make ends meet with double white collar incomes coming into one household.
Aggy77 | 3 years ago
Yup, GenX here. We got to watch the American dream bleed out from multiple stab wounds.
machaca_master | 3 years ago
"They call it the the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it"
JohnLToast | 3 years ago
Gen Z. Feels like it died long before I was born and now it’s being paraded around Weekend at Bernie’s style.
Aggy77 | 3 years ago
Yeah, started in the 80’s as far as I can remember. Wages stagnated and everything got more expensive. By the time I graduated college I thought ‘how the fuck did we have a four bedroom house, three cars and trips to Disneyland on my dads income?’
north2future | 3 years ago
I mean, most of Gen X made it in just under the wire and still got most of the upsides to the economic run from the 70s through the financial crisis in the 2000s. They got to watch all the subsequent generations lose out. They still got most of the benefits.
Reverse_FunnelSystem | 3 years ago
This right here is exactly why Gen Xers vote more like Boomers than they do Millennials and Gen Z.
miketag8337 | 3 years ago
I’m Gen X and on pace to retire earlier than my father did with more money than my father had. I work more hours than he did, but I feel it will be worth it.
CM_A_Laggin_Punk | 3 years ago
Neat Story. Got anything substantial to back it up?
Edit: yes, downvote me for asking for proof that gen x has also experienced economic decline.
This subreddit is supposed to be about evidence based economic discussion, but it’s full of knee jerk reactions and political parroting.
PresidentialBoneSpur | 3 years ago
Substantial? An evaporating middle class, driven by working wage stagnation and increasing corporate profits year after year for 4+ decades is probably a good place to start. I’m sure there’s more.
Old_timey_brain | 3 years ago
Bang on. I've been watching the middle class evaporate around me for 50 years.
When my parents moved from the childhood home, I could not afford to have bought it, even if I had wanted to.
Not every "boomer" had a golden life.
kittenpantzen | 3 years ago
https://money.cnn.com/2014/09/22/news/economy/gen-x-poorer-than-parents-pew-study/index.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabelcontreras/2021/12/17/millennials-and-gen-xers-are-not-crazy--baby-boomers-had-it-easier-financially-and-a-big-reason-is-student-debt/?sh=38a22d8287c3
We're both fucked. Gen-X was just fucked first.
It's fine, though. We're used to being left out of the discussion.
CM_A_Laggin_Punk | 3 years ago
Only person to respond with any articles or further reading. Most excellent.
Land_0f_0zzy | 3 years ago
History
dunDunDUNNN | 3 years ago
Neat counter-argument. Oh wait.
PinkyAnd | 3 years ago
Declining household savings rates, increasing household debt, runaway inflation caused by corporate profiteering, younger generations increasingly unable to afford to buy a house, younger generations putting off having kids because they can’t afford to. Unless you’re one of those people that thinks younger people can’t buy a house because they’re too busy spending all their income in avocado toast, these data are clear.
One_Atmosphere_8557 | 3 years ago
Step outside your bubble, look around, and pay attention to what you see
SheepDogCO | 3 years ago
Sorry you’re a failure but most of us are doing just fine.
Graphitetshirt | 3 years ago
You sound like a well adjusted person
Kengriffinspimp | 3 years ago
$20 says we can guess their political affiliation
Matchew024 | 3 years ago
If he is indeed a mail carrier he's doing alright. I can vouch, I'm a mail carrier as well. Except like him and myself we both aren't table 1 carriers.
Empty-Pace792 | 3 years ago
Where is the image/link?
ontha-comeup | 3 years ago
This article states the average home price in 1980 was $200k and now it is $325k and uses it as one of the primary reasons Millennials are worse off now.
Interest rates in 1980 was 15-19% and now they are around 7%. So it is actually cheaper to own the average house currently.
Neetoburrito33 | 3 years ago
Seems like millennials have better pay and more productive jobs, they’re just immobilized by our horrible housing system. Home owners have created an environment where home prices are supposed to rise forever and new housing is to be as scarce as possible.
spacemonkey21420 | 3 years ago
They may have "better pay" but with the cost of everything, not just housing, that pay doesn't mean anything. Our dollar doesn't go anywhere near as far as it did when the boomers were doing their thing. They could work at grocery stores, buy houses, go to college, buy cars for very little of a percentageof their annual income. That's not possible this day and age without going into crippling debt.
growRnottashowR | 3 years ago
Yeah. Will add that there's more shit we're buying on top of that. Not even frivolous stuff, Like. there's more survival things now.
Internet, phone service, insurance, insurance to add to your insurance, child care, student loans/startup loans (arguable but in 80% of cases a requirment for gainful employment)
Can't think of others but I'm sure they're in there.
spacemonkey21420 | 3 years ago
Right! So many more essentials that boomers consider frivolous and unnecessary.
ItsDijital | 3 years ago
Looking at myself and my peers (all 30 somethings now), everyone works but is crippled by housing costs. A system where nobody is having kids because housing is too expensive is an economic apocalypse in slow motion.
jimjones1233 | 3 years ago
The assumption that people aren't having kids because of housing costs is not necessarily true. It might even be convenient lie people tell themselves.
Japan doesn't have nearly the housing or COL issue that the US does but they have few kids. Singapore has one the best managed real estate markets in the world with homeownership rate near 90% and they have a birthrate of 1.1 per woman. Mexico birthrate has dropped all the way down to 2.08 - right around replacement rate - and Brazil is at 1.7.
This is a global trend that is most likely due to things like more education, women's rights, and a shift in norms.
Dantheking94 | 3 years ago
Japan has other cost associated with having kids. Especially their living to work salaryman culture, cultural mistreatment of women etc. everyone has different reasons.
jimjones1233 | 3 years ago
Yeah, that's what I said - it's complex and multivariable and we can't just look at the US and say "ah ha it's housing causing this."
Getting married younger would offset housing costs (2 people in a room is much cheaper) but we see delays in marriage. Marriage is a financial benefit but young people aren't taking it so I find the claim that birth rates are largely based on COL a dubious claim.
miketag8337 | 3 years ago
15 percent of the land in the United States is developed. Find a solution to the problem.
RollinThundaga | 3 years ago
A majority of Americans rent-and half of those can't afford it.
We have enough houses.
miketag8337 | 3 years ago
If we had enough houses, then the cost of housing would go down and people would be able to buy them instead of paying rent. People will either work to solve the problem, or they will stand around and whine about the problem. Millennials like to stand around and whine, although not to the extent of Gen Z.
The median age of homebuyers in America is 47.
New_Parsley6211 | 3 years ago
Better pay my ass. I teach kids for a living and compete with McDonald’s pay.
Neetoburrito33 | 3 years ago
You have much better benefits and retirement outlook than a McDonald’s worker.
New_Parsley6211 | 3 years ago
You understand that millennials and gen Z still hold the lowest level of purchasing power in the economy right? We are not getting paid better lol
Cmillzy | 3 years ago
I can tell you that is heavily debatable depending on the state.
ChompTurtleSoup | 3 years ago
Good
yagirlemilyuwu | 3 years ago
Bullshit. Im in school to be a vet right now because working as a professional chef makes me about a dollar more than McDonald's makes near me. If you consider the cost of things and inflation, I promise you even the generation above us made more.
iMissTheOldInternet | 3 years ago
Adjusted for inflation, pay is stagnant. Productivity is way up, but capital has taken basically all of the gains, sharing little to nothing with labor. On top of that, Millennials had to go to college to produce those productivity increases, and their (our) education expenses were vastly higher than our parents'. Now that we're out in the working world, all the expenses associated with young adulthood and, especially, middle age are vastly higher adjusted for inflation than our parents: housing, childcare, medical care, education for our kids.
The list is long, but the root causes are basically the same: the failed policies of the hard right that swept into power in 1980. Dishonorable mention to the unwillingness of centrists to roll back any right-wing initiative, or propose any solutions noticeably left of that prevailing "consensus" created by the right wing since 1980.
dunDunDUNNN | 3 years ago
This guy reads Thomas Piketty.
closerocks | 3 years ago
Or, like me, lived through it. Piketty's work came as no surprise.
swampopossum | 3 years ago
Sounds like the ratchet effect. Second thought does a good video on YouTube about it and how democrats keep the us from moving left while simultaneously maintaining the republicans rightward movement .
miketag8337 | 3 years ago
So it is the Right’s fault that you went to a college you couldn’t afford, got a degree that didn’t pay enough, and now cannot live the life your parents promised you? If your debt is crippling, join the peace corps or teach in a poor district for a year to get it forgiven. No one stuck a gun to your head and made you borrow that money.
The real question is why did the government make all these loans available which increased the cost of a degree (college budgets bursting at the seems to pay thousands of useless bureaucratic assistant Dean positions)? You can make $100,000 a year today driving a big rig.
schoolofhanda | 3 years ago
Ohhhh there it is. I was with you all the way up to your political bent. Don’t blame the right only, the left is just as culpable. It’s more that the people in power vote for their own interests. Left or right they were all making policy to better their generation at the cost of the future generations. Left leaning policies redistributing wealth came at the cost of gov debt.guess where that debt goes… to the future.
iMissTheOldInternet | 3 years ago
You have no idea what you’re talking about
schoolofhanda | 3 years ago
yah, well thats like your opinion man.
Dantheking94 | 3 years ago
Their dying out though. Hopefully another 6 -10 years of their screaming death cries. Just hope millennials don’t become known as the forgetter generation.
iMissTheOldInternet | 3 years ago
I’ll believe it when I see it. Plenty of dumbshits under 65, too. Just check the replies in this thread.
Dantheking94 | 3 years ago
Fair enough. I’m friends with a few, I can’t discuss politics with them.
Koko175 | 3 years ago
Wages haven’t kept up with inflation, so isnt it impossible for millennials pay to be better? Not sure what you mean
zabby39103 | 3 years ago
Yeah shit would be better, or at least stagnant, if not for housing. It's a mess. It was hidden from view for a while because of low interest rates, but it's gone absolutely bananas in the last 10 years (and especially the last 2 years).
Where I live, the house I grew up in now costs 1.6 million dollars. My dad bought it on a single income (stay at home mom) in the 80s for an inflation adjusted 360,000. I couldn't buy it now even on a double income. That's in the suburbs of a medium sized Canadian city of 500,000 people.
If you think it's bad where you live, it can get this bad and it will get this bad until zoning/permit reform happens.
I don't see how the most important expense in your whole life isn't front and centre in the current cost of living discussion. If the cost of that goes up by almost 5x, you're basically impoverished compared to your parents.
chibinoi | 3 years ago
I’d argue the Millennial Generation received the first wave of “bullshit jobs” that serve only to propel a convenience centered society.
CatsOrb | 3 years ago
Good point
miketag8337 | 3 years ago
Disagree. A major issue is the millennials want the house their parents have now, not the house their parents had starting out (which was often a basement apartment in their parents house). Nothing wrong with multiple generations living in a house while the younger generation gets on their feet.
Empty-Pace792 | 3 years ago
Where is the image/link?
north2future | 3 years ago
As far as I understand it, salaries have not kept up with inflation and cost of living. Millennials have far lower pay relative to everything else than the last two generations. Most millennials aren’t working high paying tech jobs but all of them are affected by the absurd real estate market and the increasing cost of… well everything.
Tackysock46 | 3 years ago
Home prices are high everywhere, not just in the US. We’re actually lagging many places such as Canada and Australia. Borrowing has become too cheap and over regulation on new housing has made it unaffordable
croupella-de-Vil | 3 years ago
Boomers say:“Go to college, pay for it with loans like I did, you’ll get a great job out of school and you’ll be able to afford a house.”
Millennials: got a degree, have $80K in student debt, “Chemist, entry level, $15/hr, must have 2 years experience.” Can’t afford shit, cost of living rising too fast. Can’t afford student loans if I were paying them off.
Boomers: “iT wAs YoUr CHoIce to GeT a DeGrEE! YoU aRe an ADuLt at 18 ANd yOU sHoUlD haVe kNoWn tHe ConSeQuenCes of sTUdeNt LoaNs”
Millennials: vote overwhelmingly democrat
Boomers: “you’re not old or mature enough to vote at 18, we should raise the voting age to 21 so we can fuck over Gen Z too”
NoVegas0 | 3 years ago
Eventually when their parents die, it will be the biggest transfer of wealth in history. Millennials will make out well but will have to wait a few decades for the redistribution.
Fettiwapster | 3 years ago
Elder care/facilities will take a majority.
nailback | 3 years ago
Not to mention funerals.
I'm 46 not a baby boomer or millennial. I'll probably die at my desk. My savings is getting eaten away. Housing is taken most of my paycheck. I went to college, go to work every day, saved for a rainy 6 months , no I didn't save for a rainy 5 years. The past 5 years has just been a perfect storm of disaster for me. Everything that could go wrong or come to bare has.
I guess I won't end up homeless. Knock on wood.
Spankpocalypse_Now | 3 years ago
I saw this happen first hand with my grandparents. Only the richest Boomers will be leaving inheritance. The vast majority of Millennials shouldn’t count on getting anything. Getting old and dying is extremely expensive.
reinaww | 3 years ago
Most boomers I know (my parent and friends parents) all have said they want to spend their savings to have fun in retirement and plan on leaving their kids nothing.
OG_Antifa | 3 years ago
The “fuck you, I got mine” generation
Hawk13424 | 3 years ago
Assholes then. I’d never let my kid do worse then me. I’d give them everything I had first, assuming they are doing their best.
AsSubtleAsABrick | 3 years ago
Inheritance is overrated. Yeah I could have used the money in my 20s but I could very well be in my 50s or even 60s when they pass. I won't need it then.
Hawk13424 | 3 years ago
I’ve started transferring some of mine to my kid now (she is 20). In the US you can transfer $16K per year with no taxes. I’ve started to show her how to invest it, save it for a house down payment, how to start putting some of it towards her own retirement. No point in holding onto it and then giving it when I die.
giv-meausername | 3 years ago
Just fyi, you can gift more than 16k per year without tax implications. 16k is just the cutoff amount before it counts toward your 12.06 million lifetime exclusion.
Hawk13424 | 3 years ago
Yep, about as much as I can give anyway. And less paper work. The lifetime limit requires filing some IRS form I think.
Old_timey_brain | 3 years ago
As it was for me, and a tough slog to make it that far, but what came really did help.
Qadim3311 | 3 years ago
Only those with boomer parents that have anything to leave them.
I’m on the young end of millennials and my mother is going to die just as penniless as she has lived, and I am not nearly the only one for whom this is true.
ToBeEatenByAGrue | 3 years ago
End of life care will eat most of it. It will be a huge wealth transfer, but it won't end up in the hands of normal people.
farinasa | 3 years ago
My parents and their siblings expected to inherit a house, but all of it went to hospice/nursing home. My mom's house is worth less than that one and I suspect it will be the exact same story.
EyesOfAzula | 3 years ago
The ones who get to enjoy inheritance. The ones without are largely stuck in generational poverty
geomaster | 3 years ago
so we have to rely on the luck and the generosity of our parents' generation. Good luck with that!
_Being_a_CPA_sucks_ | 3 years ago
"I plan to spend every dime I make on cruising" is something I hear from my parents daily. Between that and elder care costs I expect to see $0.
bautofdi | 3 years ago
Millennials will be too old to enjoy any of it. And most will have to sell their parents’ homes to get out of the debt trap.
At the end still left with nothing.
nailback | 3 years ago
What if the parents have been refinancing all this time. I doubt there will be a distribution. The only hope is their grandparents paid the house off.
Prince_Ire | 3 years ago
Nah, a lot of boomers bought into the idea that you shouldn't leave anything to your kids so they aren't spoiled
chibinoi | 3 years ago
Probably the likely scenario for many upper-middle to middle class Boomer families (ignoring the wealthy, here, since that’s a given). But there are likely many boomer families who won’t have much wealth to pass on to their children, unfortunately.
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
I'd say those people are insane.
We have it easier in America today that we've ever had it.
Theres abundance everywhere. Yeah things are more expensive but you're also looking at money as resource rather than what resource is available to you currently for your consumption.
The people who spread the opposite rhetoric are often times going through personal struggles.
Idk about you but I as compared to other places in the world get to live a fantasy life and I appreciate it as such.
I give back to my communities as much as possible. Americans who say this type of shit "we are worse off" are insanely selfish.
Just a reminder your parents didn't have a TV, Cell Phone, Smart Car, Microwave dinners, Personal computers, fit-bits and they didn't have access to the revolutions it made for industry.
hiho-silverware | 3 years ago
You are 100% correct, but you are also on Reddit.
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
Yep. Thank God I live in the real world.
Where people and innovation exist and we aren't forced to live lives off of some social points system. 😆
encryptzee | 3 years ago
Abundance of goods is meaningless in the face of artificial housing scarcity and the subsequent extortion of renters income. Shelter is the foundation.
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
This argument is that you can't afford the cost of living.
I can and most of us are.
dalligogle | 3 years ago
The comparison isn't about other parts of the world or whether things are "easier" today. It's about comparing one American generation's living standards vs another's which means jobs, incomes, housing, savings, retirement, etc.
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
And I have it waaaaaay easier than my parents or my grandparents today
My grandparents were born at the end of the depression Era and survived WW2.
Honestly. Go take a look in a history book. Talk to your elders about what they went through to get us to where we are at today and then tell me things are "too expensive" unaffordable.
Shit, my grandma lived actually literally for real in a chicken coop when she was a child.
But I? I live in a house, climate controlled, cable internet to video call people across the world with.
I also get paid to travel on airplanes and set up large TV and Musical productions lol
Yeah we are sooo much worse off lol
dalligogle | 3 years ago
That's your experience. Stats show younger generations don't share your experience for the most part. Yes some things are "easier" but many others aren't. You may have a great life, that doesn't mean everyone else does too. Wages have largely been stagnant since the 70's when adjusted for inflation. Housing, education, and medical expenses have all far surpassed inflation. Requirements/competition to get good jobs have exploded with many jobs now requiring Masters degrees. That wasn't the case 50+ years ago.
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
Why do you need the government to do your job for your?
Employment rights didn't exist until Ralph Nader.
Lol tell me what it was like before Naders Crusaders genius.
dalligogle | 3 years ago
"genius?" Lol all I did was state facts, so salty for having an amazing life.
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
You stated opinions as facts. There's a major difference.
dalligogle | 3 years ago
>Wages have largely been stagnant since the 70's when adjusted for inflation. Housing, education, and medical expenses have all far surpassed inflation. Requirements/competition to get good jobs have exploded with many jobs now requiring Masters degrees. That wasn't the case 50+ years ago.
Facts supported by data.
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
Inflation. You are again looking at the dollar as resource but we ended that in the 60s
Why? Because resource by itself doesn't have value. So when you talk to me about inflation I see the actual values of things for what they can BE AND not as raw materials.
That is why you see a reflection economically today.
Coltan rather than being a rock in Africa is a mother fucking circuit board.
1000x more effort is used to create things that make ease of life accessible to all. It's expensive. It's global and it isn't just America.
If you are struggling to live YOUR version of the dream here you should stop trying to seek out the others who feel aloof and start looking for the people who are successful in this culture.
I'm succeful. Thank you.
dalligogle | 3 years ago
I'm stating facts, you are giving your opinion on why those facts are facts.
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
And the whole masters degree thing is a myth. You're afraid to lie on an application.
CantRemember45 | 3 years ago
well yeah, there’s new technology, but that doesn’t mean shit when you can’t afford a house or start a family
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
You can't afford a house I can.
Does that make sense?
That's a YOU thing not an US thing.
CantRemember45 | 3 years ago
except the overwhelming trend is that people can’t buy houses, more so than any other generation in america. YOU are the minority in this situation
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
Actually no I'm not. You are literally the minority in this situation and you want me to believe it's the common thing in America..
It's not.
CantRemember45 | 3 years ago
read a book, that’s exactly what i’m telling you lmao
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
What's it like to not have the things you need and to be venting to the person who has their ducks in a row?
CantRemember45 | 3 years ago
i mean, it’s not a huge deal, it’s a convo on reddit. just telling you you should kay of the FOX news
Dr_DMT | 3 years ago
I don't watch TV. We are not the same
CantRemember45 | 3 years ago
nor do i. but yeah, i definitely don’t wanna be like you. take care mate
jimjones1233 | 3 years ago
This comes down to a few things IMO.
Housing is the biggest. Places where people would generally be better off than their parents have restricted housing at the behest of current homeowners.
One that is discussed less is connected to people living and working longer. The age of executives have climbed. This doesn't just mean that younger people don't get those jobs but it means all jobs probably have become older people and so the whole business is aging and means more younger people are stuck in lower positions for longer than in the past.
Many people would move to cost of college next but I would rather focus on the increase in need of accreditation. That's because that increases demand and allows for higher prices. But take a personal assistant or an executive assistant. That job requires organization, communication, and occasionally some more complex skills. That has become largely a job that everyone has a degree. It's not needed.
BreastMilkPopsicles | 3 years ago
This illusion that you are somehow entitled to a better life than your parents is a new and completely fabricated idea. This was never the case before in human history.
We had one generation that really saw incredible prosperity in the baby boomers. This prosperity came from a boom in a post war economy and tremendous opportunity as cities exploded with growth and we entered a second industrial revolution with the dawn of the computer age.
You don't live in that world and you need to get over it and deal with the hand your dealt. Housing is expensive in the cities that everyone wants to live in and that will never go back to how your parents had it (Go look at the urban vs. rural divide in the 50's and 60's compared to today). The dawn of the computer age and automation increased productivity and made your labor less valuable. That will never go back to how your parents had it.
There is no "path" that humanity has simply strayed off from and all we is a good politician or two to get us back on track. That is a fairytale. Life just happens. Civilization just happens. Conditions change. You have no right to prosperity. You have to make the best with what you have.
"That just sounds like a "fuck you I got mine" response"
It's not that I got mine, it's that no one gives a fuck that you didn't get yours. You are not owed anything.
ihad4biscuits | 3 years ago
This is such a strange take to me. I don’t think anyone is saying that they “deserve” anything. They are saying that the cards are stacked against them, that those before them took everything and left them with scraps, and that the government isn’t working for them.
Personally, I do give a shit that there are people that are not making enough to make ends meat. That people can’t afford housing because corporations have bought everything up. That minimum wage is often not enough to live on.
What, we’re supposed to just stand and take it because “we aren’t owed anything”?
BreastMilkPopsicles | 3 years ago
My take isn't trying to argue that the cards aren't stacked against us vs. our parents and grandparents.
It's that the comparison to your parents is baseless. You want the same prosperity in a completely different set of conditions. The conditions are completely different and that it's not a simple fix. Waiting for politician to fix it is not going to get you anywhere. Booming, endless prosperity isn't the default setting for humanity.
The issue is that you think "We're not going to stand by and take it" means getting government to fix all of your problems as if these are just easily fixable missteps. You gloss over things like the rural v. urban divide and the effects of automation on the value of labor but those are the systematic problems that are driving the issues you raise that no government is going to fix.
Urban Land is worth more because everyone wants to live in the same few cities.
Your labor is worth less because we don't need unskilled labor to turn screws and file data.
You can sit there and hope some hero politician fixes all of these issues for the world or you can adapt to reality and figure out the path you need to take to prosper in the world today. Guess what, not being ahead of your parents doesn't mean you failed.
troyboltonislife | 3 years ago
Yeah and honestly, while it’s a much harder path anyone who grew up with the average middle class life will also be able to obtain the average middle class life.
It’s really not that complicated. Get a degree that pays well (or go blue collar), do well in school, get internships, get a job right out of college, keep improving your skills and specializing, switch jobs every 1-2 years until you are making a really good wage, and save a lot of money for when your ready to buy a house. Yes having to do all that sucks and isn’t fun but it’s not complicated.
If you are finding that you can’t live the middle class lifestyle that your parents had, I would say that’s a result of poor choices (choosing a shit degree, working a shit paying job for too long instead of looking for higher paying ones, spending frivolously, etc) or not working hard (not getting good grades, not improving your skills, etc).
I always find the people complaining about this the loudest are always liberal arts majors. Your not hearing STEM or Welders complaining about being able to afford a house.
SheepDogCO | 3 years ago
Your topic sentence says “many” Millennials are worse off than their parents. A first… blah blah blah. Every generation has “many” people who are worse off. Define many. Where did you get this nonsense notion? Some people make bad decisions. Some people have bad luck. Some people have bad parents that don’t sacrifice for their kids to do better. It’s also the Millennial generation who decided to rack up student loan debt to go to the best schools, instead of affordable ones. Millennials created the gig job, instead of buckling down and getting an 8-5 job and working their way into a career. It’s the Millennial generation that decided they “need” $1000 iPhones every two years and unlimited data. Meh, I’m bored.
ducvette | 3 years ago
You mean a generation that wants hands out and is anti-work isn’t doing well? This is absolutely shocking and no one could have possibly seen this coming. /s
random_throwaway999 | 3 years ago
Brainlet response
saggymonkeytits | 3 years ago
Ok Boomer /s
innovationcynic | 3 years ago
Be warned, you are about to trigger the woke downvote crowd with your rational thinking.
ducvette | 3 years ago
All good - you have to have a thick skin on any platform where the woke mob is present lol
random_throwaway999 | 3 years ago
I’m very anti-woke. I’m a CPA and a financial analyst and if you’re unaware of asset price appreciation vs real wage growth, idk what to tell you.
Yeah, millennials are annoying. But that’s not an excuse for boomers to have looted the economy and then blame younger generations.
_Being_a_CPA_sucks_ | 3 years ago
And all of this is why this CPA executive is woke and antiwork. I may personally be more than fine, but most people are absolutely fucked by the current economic system. Even as an equity executive I am much closer to homelessness and the average worker than I am to the 400m net worth owner of our firm.
Hawk13424 | 3 years ago
I’m not a boomer. Life isn’t that hard. Just have to invest in learning in-demand skills. Work isn’t about finding your calling. Work is about learning how to deliver something people will pay for. Always has been. What has changed is what is in-demand and the effort it takes to learn it.
random_throwaway999 | 3 years ago
All you have are platitudes. Data is notably absent.
innovationcynic | 3 years ago
I’m well aware of the disconnect between wage growth and inflated asset prices, particularly if you pick a career path that doesn’t have wage growth in excess of price inflation. I’m also not a boomer.
Edit: downvoting because you don’t like the facts doesn’t change the truth.
random_throwaway999 | 3 years ago
Cool.
So do you care to explain why you think “lol millennials” is a salient response to the issue of wage stagnation?
innovationcynic | 3 years ago
Because wage stagnation is not consistent across all classes of employment. Get a useful degree and you’ll find your wages grow faster than inflation. Get an overpriced degree from some private college using student loans so you can have a diploma in French history and I have little sympathy for your poor choices.
random_throwaway999 | 3 years ago
“Just don’t be poor, get a high paying career”
Insightful
innovationcynic | 3 years ago
Not wrong.
random_throwaway999 | 3 years ago
It’s a total pivot to the actual discussion being had
“Just don’t be a slave bro, it’s simple”
N4hire | 3 years ago
Some parents didn’t help the situation..
Stupid comment I know, but my dads refusal invest in real state, and relay on a just holding to the money didn’t help the future of the family.
probablywrongbutmeh | 3 years ago
Millenials also are ready to receive the largest intergenerational transfer of wealth in recorded history, so while they may be worse off now, I believe that wont be long lasting.
Edit: not sure how stating a fact is controversial?
"Older generations will hand down some $70 trillion between 2018 and 2042, according to research and consulting firm Cerulli Associates. Roughly $61 trillion will go to heirs—increasingly millennials and Generation Xers—with the balance going to philanthropy
Edit 2: it seems everyone who disagreed with me deleted their comment. Didnt change their downvotes though...gotta love reddit lol
Arlo1878 | 3 years ago
Once their parents are done with health care expenses (assisted living, etc), there may not be much left, hate to say it. For example, Medicare doesn’t insure for dental, eyes, or ears
probablywrongbutmeh | 3 years ago
A lot of boomers are sitting on significant real estate holdings too.
usernamegoeshere94 | 3 years ago
You just know most of that wealth is only gonna go to a small percentage of millenials who won the genetic lottery by being born into families that are already rich.
probablywrongbutmeh | 3 years ago
Sure -
"almost 40 percent of intergenerational transfers go to households that were in the top 10 percent of the income distribution in the year they received the transfer. Only about 20 percent of the total transfer amount goes to families in the bottom half of the income distribution."
Source
But that wealth also tends to not be sticky for those who receive it
"Indeed, 70% of wealthy families lose their wealth by the second generation, and a stunning 90% by the third, according to the Williams Group wealth consultancy."
Source