Until I saw this I was wondering where Switzerland and Belgium got there cocoa from, because I have never seen a tree growing in either country, and one is always hearing about Swiss and Belgium chocolate.
“For most people, tulips, windmills, and bike lanes spring to mind when they think of the Netherlands. But most people would be surprised to learn that the Netherlands ranks first in the world as an exporter of cocoa products, recently overtaking neighboring Germany.
The Netherlands recorded cocoa exports of 12.4 billion euros in 2025”
I would guess that’s a holdout from colonial times. Indonesia used to be a Dutch colony up till world war two. Might even date back to when there was a Dutch colony in Brazil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Brazil), but that page doesn’t mention cocoa, and I wouldn’t even know whether there was cocoa in Brazil at the time.
That's because Rotterdam is Europe's largest sea port. About half of our exports are actually re-exports that don't have their origin in the Netherlands.
Just for the record, Spain produces Cacao since 2022, with the first 70 Kg of fully European Cacao on 2023. Courtesy of some cunning and patient sapiens. And it only toke 100 years of work.
This is notable because it's in an unheated greenhouse. Lots of botanical gardens around the world, like the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens in NYC, have fruit-bearing cacao trees in their (heated) tropical rooms.
In greenhouses also in South of Spain. With climate change roaring, more places in the North will be able to culture that. It takes a lot of time to grow and some talent to obtain the fruit but it could be possible. I bet that it tastes 1000 times better than the processed cacao.
The tree can not stand long periods of temperatures below 15 Celsius.
> I bet that it tastes 1000 times better than the processed cacao.
It does not. Cacao beans/seeds taste utterly vile. You couldn't imagine in your wildest dreams that the chocolate you buy in stores comes from those disgusting things.
There was a cacao plantation on the side of the road that I walked past every day after school when I was between 5 and 14yrs old. I'd always pick a few on the way home to break open a pod and suck on the beans. But if you accidentally bit into one, well /* insert face vomiting emoji */
After fermentation and roasting the seeds and removing the shell around the seeds it start to taste like chocolate. But even then it is still very bitter, and the texture is not great at all. It really needs to be finely ground to become palatable, otherwise it's a bit like a bitter chocolate flavored chalk. Extra cocoa butter is usually added for taste and melt in the mouth effect. Leaving extra raw defatted chocolate as a side effect, which is what is sold as cocoa cooking powder, to which you better add a lot of fat for taste.
Well, the fruit is a lovely flavor. Once you learn that e.g. pomelo peel has a way to cook and be eaten, you realize the resourcefulness of our forebears and their quest for flavor and a full belly
I disagree. After drying for a few days they just taste like unsweetened chocolate to me. Very similar to the cacao nibs I used to purchase, which are indeed just broken up seeds.
Aztecs used cocoa beans as currency (in their case, money did grow on trees :), and drinking chocolate was reserved to the higher classes. Every time I see expensive food with gold leaves I'm reminded of that. Maybe they tried to eat money too?
Cacao trees are the most difficult plant I have grown, they are much more finicky than many others, and I almost only grow tropical or subtropical plants (in a temperate climate, in France and now Belgium).
I don't know which climate this gentleman lives in, but winter in France has been fatal to several of my trees simply because of the reduced ambient humidity due to needing heating in the house. None have survived more than three years.
I've never managed to get them taller than 10 inches. And this last year, no leaves at all... the tap root would emerge, but something always kills it quickly. Though, to be fair, those were from a grocery store pod (I think they refrigerate them during transport).
The seeds can be very finicky at the early stage. Too much water and they rot; too little water and they dry and die. Since the seeds are sticking out of the dirt when you plant them, make sure to water the seeds and not just the surrounding dirt. Good luck!
Can I just add that this commercial website is great. It's informative. It has lots of information. It's very clear to read. And the blog just breathes loving the product.
Unfortunately, I first "pre-ordered" their machine in 2021. It has never gone into commercial production, and at this point I don't think it ever will.
I recently tried "ChoViva" it's a chocolate substitute made from sunflower seeds. Turns out 80% of the chocolate flavor comes from the processing, including fermentation and roasting and not from the plant. They process the sunflower seeds in a way that achieves a taste and texture very close to chocolate. In a way, I prefer it over chocolate because it has no caffeine and has a slightly compacter texture that does not stick around in the mouth for so long. Really interesting. ChoViva is just the brand. They only do B2B so it is used as part of the supply chain for sweets like peanut butter cups.
Ive heard of this method over here in Europe some years ago, though do not know if these process gained any traction regarding regular bought food brands?
80% alike is to my mind dramatically different and would not be a substitute at all. I also don't think 95% cocoa chocolate is a substitute for 80% cocoa chocolate etc. as even the small difference results in a dramatically different product and that's the simplest variation possible for chocolate.
I'd definitely say the 20% is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Anybody who has eaten raw and roasted cacao nibs should be able to easily identify the same flavors pervasively in chocolate, and which are from the raw cacao and which are from the roasting. Although the more sugar, dairy, and other adjuncts in the chocolate, the less the cacao flavors come through.
Coffee has very similar processing to chocolate, can produce similar flavours with the right amount of roasting, but is not even close to the same thing due to the dramatically different fat content (both quantity and type of fat).
There’s a reason chocolate that has other plant fats blended into it is considered a highly inferior product to chocolate containing only cocoa butter, cocoa solids, sugar, and (optionally) milk. Cocoa butter’s melting temperature is just right for producing the intense, mouth-coating sensation of a good chocolate. Not to mention that cocoa butter carries much of the aroma compounds we love from chocolate.
See also the numerous coffee substitutes like chicory and roasted barley.
The original "Cafe mocha" was apparently just a variety of coffee bean that tasted sort of like hot chocolate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mocha_coffee_bean . Depending on the roast, you can cold brew coffee to emphasize the chocolatey components as well.
> Turns out 80% of the chocolate flavor comes from the processing, including fermentation and roasting and not from the plant
As someone who has roasted cacao beans and made their own chocolate, I feel slightly offended by this... yet, I have to concede that roasted beans share a lot of qualities. Cheap coffee used to have (maybe still has?) roasted garbanzo beans as filler, and it wasn't that bad. Old-style roasteries used to roast peanuts the same way they roasted coffee: a very tasty snack, and as aromatic as the coffee beans.
They sell ChoViva here in Japan, in Aeon supermarkets. I've tried the「チョコか？ 」bar [1] and really enjoy it. Given how most "chocolate" on sale these days is actually compound chocolate, it's very competitive on taste. It's also affordable, at ¥322 ($2.04), post-tax, for an 80g bar; unlike GOVOCE [2], a chocolate substitute based on burdock root, which costs ¥700 ($4.43), post-tax, for just 52g (and tastes less good in my opinion).
I'm more into dark chocolate, though, so I hope ChoViva start selling a bitter version over here. It seems they have a formulation for it [3], though I've not seen it available in a bar format.
uxhacker | a day ago
simtel20 | a day ago
uxhacker | a day ago
throwaway219450 | a day ago
kakacik | a day ago
nkrisc | 23 hours ago
4gotunameagain | 23 hours ago
Someone | 23 hours ago
“For most people, tulips, windmills, and bike lanes spring to mind when they think of the Netherlands. But most people would be surprised to learn that the Netherlands ranks first in the world as an exporter of cocoa products, recently overtaking neighboring Germany.
The Netherlands recorded cocoa exports of 12.4 billion euros in 2025”
I would guess that’s a holdout from colonial times. Indonesia used to be a Dutch colony up till world war two. Might even date back to when there was a Dutch colony in Brazil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Brazil), but that page doesn’t mention cocoa, and I wouldn’t even know whether there was cocoa in Brazil at the time.
jaapz | 19 hours ago
pvaldes | a day ago
eltondegeneres | a day ago
pvaldes | a day ago
The tree can not stand long periods of temperatures below 15 Celsius.
markdown | a day ago
It does not. Cacao beans/seeds taste utterly vile. You couldn't imagine in your wildest dreams that the chocolate you buy in stores comes from those disgusting things.
There was a cacao plantation on the side of the road that I walked past every day after school when I was between 5 and 14yrs old. I'd always pick a few on the way home to break open a pod and suck on the beans. But if you accidentally bit into one, well /* insert face vomiting emoji */
bombela | 14 hours ago
nkrisc | 23 hours ago
I don’t think anyone uses cacao seeds for anything except for processing.
IAmBroom | 19 hours ago
That's like assuming pure hydrogen tastes better than the oxidized stuff in water.
whatever1 | a day ago
But man some some times I wonder how desperately hungry were the people who made something edible out of the cocoa tree.
simtel20 | a day ago
markdown | a day ago
rusticpenn | 22 hours ago
picklesman | 20 hours ago
foobarian | 18 hours ago
picklesman | 20 hours ago
(I’m talking about the pulp around the seeds, not the flesh right under the skin of the pod, which I’ve never tried eating)
CocoTerra | 17 hours ago
https://cocoasupply.com/cacao-fruit-pulp-puree-nectar-pouche...
nvme0n1p1 | a day ago
zorobo | a day ago
ASalazarMX | 14 hours ago
seszett | a day ago
I don't know which climate this gentleman lives in, but winter in France has been fatal to several of my trees simply because of the reduced ambient humidity due to needing heating in the house. None have survived more than three years.
NoMoreNicksLeft | a day ago
CocoTerra | 17 hours ago
wjnc | a day ago
nullderef | a day ago
autoexec | 22 hours ago
seesthruya | 14 hours ago
xxmarkuski | 23 hours ago
KellyCriterion | 22 hours ago
bigDinosaur | 21 hours ago
technothrasher | 19 hours ago
tarsierscripter | 20 hours ago
There’s a reason chocolate that has other plant fats blended into it is considered a highly inferior product to chocolate containing only cocoa butter, cocoa solids, sugar, and (optionally) milk. Cocoa butter’s melting temperature is just right for producing the intense, mouth-coating sensation of a good chocolate. Not to mention that cocoa butter carries much of the aroma compounds we love from chocolate.
fouc | 20 hours ago
kaonwarb | 20 hours ago
mapt | 19 hours ago
The original "Cafe mocha" was apparently just a variety of coffee bean that tasted sort of like hot chocolate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mocha_coffee_bean . Depending on the roast, you can cold brew coffee to emphasize the chocolatey components as well.
LinguaBrowse | 8 hours ago
ASalazarMX | 14 hours ago
As someone who has roasted cacao beans and made their own chocolate, I feel slightly offended by this... yet, I have to concede that roasted beans share a lot of qualities. Cheap coffee used to have (maybe still has?) roasted garbanzo beans as filler, and it wasn't that bad. Old-style roasteries used to roast peanuts the same way they roasted coffee: a very tasty snack, and as aromatic as the coffee beans.
LinguaBrowse | 8 hours ago
I'm more into dark chocolate, though, so I hope ChoViva start selling a bitter version over here. It seems they have a formulation for it [3], though I've not seen it available in a bar format.
- [1] https://www.topvalu.net/tv-chococa/
- [2] https://www.ahjikan.co.jp/melburd_govoce/
- [3] https://choviva.com/products/schulte-dominoes-choviva-dark