I think they're eliminating jobs even faster than they're deporting immigrants. Tariffs, mass firings, cutting off programs and research, being shitty to our allies, etc
AI-washing and the massive layoffs hitting the economy
''experts interviewed by CNBC said some companies could be “AI-washing” their job cuts, blaming layoffs on the new technology to cover up business fumbles and old-fashioned cost cutting''
Another study showed AI costs more than an employee still. Another one showed only 2% of software engineers are using it efficiently. It's all bullshit.
It’s actually not though, they wanna build an ai data center in Utah to consume over double the electricity of the entire state combined. A single data center will use more power than millions of people, homes and water just so a kid can search why is water wet.
Oh and it will pay no taxes, at all while using public resources so a billionaire investor can be richer.
Well one of them is a meaningful expense, and the other one is a made up expense to replace those 500 people with work a third of the quality of the real thing, while costing just as much if not more.
Fucking insane take. People need water and power because they're people and have inherent value. Producing value for a company isn't the reason we exist.
As said, they can't work. AI still is a computer. Yes, a computer needs no benefits, beeps 24/7 and never call sick (until it breaks), but you need someone pushing the right buttons.
A machine that makes twice as many mistakes than humans, completely lacks fluid intelligence (ie cannot function in novel, dynamic environments) and works 24/7 creates extra work that humans have to clean up. Resulting in being far more expensive than just having human labor.
They aren't though. They are using the AI narrative as cover. But AI itself is demonstrably more expensive than human labor because it's nowhere near as capable as the clearly concerted media narrative would have you believe.
Saying this as someone who builds homegrown AI models.
Project 2025 by design.. crate chaos.. riots.. squeeze as much money from working class… increase crime … “traitors to America”
the insurrection act, suspend elections…
Consider also that immigrants - especially the ones being deported en masse - are central to keeping the cost of goods down. When you eliminate the key engine of your laborforce and don't actually replace it with anything (because AI contribution to labor productivity is less than 1%)...you're going to have a bad time especially when the underlying macroeconomics were already bad.
The World Cup was projected to bring massive numbers of foreign tourists to the country, and now hotels in 9 out of the 11 venue cities are reporting lower-than-normal reservations for the time frame, let alone the expected WC boost. Prices are making it less attractive for American fans already squeezed by inflation. Prices and ICEs are making it unattractive for foreign fans to risk coming to America.
>In sectors such as construction, where the share of immigrant workers is high, U.S.-born workers often take up roles that depend on work provided by foreign-born counterparts, such as manual labor.
I mean, this is a very charitable way of describing exploitation, let's be honest here.
Appreciate the link. But part of what it’s saying (from my perspective and ime) is that 25-30% of construction workers are immigrants so even if people are filling the roles lost due to ICE kidnapping immigrants and locking them up in cages isn’t great for construction, most notably pricing. Immigrants are usually paid a lot less than citizens so even if the jobs are filled the cost of construction labor will increase. Considering housing market is already a mess and unaffordable to many it seems it may only get worse and more expensive. So long term going to likely raise costs and make owning a home harder and higher rents. Considering that with the current job market being atrocious is not a good combination for us long term. But that’s just my take so I’m sure there’s a lot of other perspectives or insights that we may all be missing.
Set the graph to 5Y and see what happens around Jan 2025.
Such a massive slowdown is generally not a good sign, economies are meant to grow over time either with productivity gains. From technology or human capital or just more people working in them. Treading water is generally a bad sign
it's a slowdown, not a recession like in the ones you mentioned, economy is still chugging it's just not a good sign. Most recessions are precipitated by a slowdown exactly like the one we're seeing now
and we're not out of it yet, there is barely an increase since Jan 2025 and early 2026 are still rocky. You generally want to see 2 quarters of consistent growth before being confident you're out of it. ATH were posted in 1979, 1989 and 2006. There being an ATH is really not a worthwhile indicator. The rate of change of the graph is generally the best indicator
Knowing how many billions undocumented citizens contribute to the economy, it was very obvious from the start that it was never about helping… not helping the economy, not helping citizens, not helping immigrants, not helping America. It was all meant to hurt and flex power and beat people into submission.
I mean, the fact that whack job nasty Marjorie Taylor Greene called out the mass deportations as bad for business says a lot. Ofc it was when it affected hers did she care. They knew this, they were just pandering to racists and xenophobes for votes.
It's weird how she went from being dumber than a brick to actually being quite insightful as of late.
If she can do it what's holding back the other 70 million...
Those are the wrong types of people who are increasing the population though. (for the Cons) Hence why they're going after abortion and will likely go after birth control. See project 25 and how they want women back home but not working.
Oh, the wealthy elite know it. They have to find a way to punish the Brown people, but keep the population growing...
Our economy is inflationary. It counts on the GDP every growing. If it ever stopped, or declined over a long period of time... they know their riches would be threatened as they are the ones with the most to lose.
I think what ICE is doing is horrifically inhumane.
I also think it's complete bullshit that we're spending billions to round up illegal immigrants when you could go after the businesses hiring them so much more easily.
Every time I bring this up, someone says 'oh, they have to file an I-9! Those poor businesses are being taken advantage of by dishonest illegals!' and they say this without ever acknowledging that companies purposely subcontract to keep headcount low enough (<50?) that they do not have to go through the US's 'everify' service to vet that a worker has the right to work in the US.
I'm sorry, I just can't take anything a politician says about immigration seriously until they crack down on the businesses hiring second class citizens. If your business cannot survive without illegal immigrants, it should wither and die.
You need farm workers? You need people to work in your meat processing plants? Guess you'd better start pressuring your congressmen for a legal way for workers to come here and work for you. As it stands, those immigrants have basically no rights and are to scared to report abusive practices least they get deported themselves.
> If your business cannot survive without illegal immigrants, it should wither and die.
You have to remember that the businesses are getting squeezed from the top too, paying higher prices on raw materials, gas, any property they might rent, etc.
The small businesses finding workarounds are the symptom of our economy's disease of billionaires, oligopolies, and hedge funds, not the disease itself.
I would have more leniency if the business community was not actively lobbying for 'business as usual'. I think the only way we reach a critical mass on immigration reform is if enough start facing consequences
Yes, but where is it more rational to apply the consequences to? Joe Derp, the guy who barely graduated from home school with his roofing business, or starting at the top with the well-educated billionaires constructing the system where they skim so much money out of the middle and working class that Joe Derp's margins tighten every year so he skirts the laws to stay afloat?
We need to avoid lionizing the "business community." These people are often hard workers, but not usually great thinkers.
In one of those endless Instagram accounts dedicated to political debate, I saw a dude saying "I'd rather have a 20% poorer economy if it made America look like... you know, before."
Many of them know the economy is going down the toilet. They see it as a necessary evil.
immigrants are also much more likely to be entrepreneurs, start new businesses, and actually create more jobs. Because of course they are; they are the type of people who are willing to uproot their entire lives and start over in another country; starting a new business is just one more small step for them,
It was never an economic question for voters. They didn’t enter into the voting booth focusing on the next quarter GDP growth. They approached it from an individual level and not from a macro America-Corporate Complex TM perspective.
People on r/conservative had threads of them salivating/laughing over taking the homes and businesses of mass deported people, just like ghouls did in Nazi Germany and during Japanese mass interment in the US.
No, it won't, because it drastically constrains supply. Who do you think builds new housing in this country? I don't see a lot of natural-born US citizens hammering away in new housing developments.
It won't. They either live together in one cramped space or they live with family/friends that are here legally. If it's the first case, whoopdiedoo, you kicked out six laborers for one vacancy to open and if it's the second, the people that already live there aren't going to stop living there.
I don’t know what your profession is but if the government moved 1000 capable workers in that field to your town would you be fearful or excited that local GDP was gonna go up?
How? It’s what every person outside of a C-suite position counting down the days to retirement thinks whenever the government talks mass migration, open borders, or H-1b visas.
In order for people to have opportunities there has to be opportunities for them. The current approach absolutely decimates the native workforce outside of the Ivy League consultant class.
Opportunities are created by demand. You get increased demand by increased number of consumers. Anti immigration advocates always operate under the logic that demand is fixed and all that happens is supply of labour is increased and thus bargaining power is decreased. But immigration increases demand too, and it also increases economy of scale, hence everyone is net wealthier.
But that's not what OP was talking about, he was talking about Trump and the GOP's racial fearmongering
As far as electricians go, there are local laws already on the books to deal with unlicensed electricians, not to mention those people aren't competing with qualified electricians, they are serving people who can't afford qualified electricians
Failure of government is not capitalism. Governments are corrupt and fail regardless of economic policy. It’s more related to society - which of course governments have the position and power to tear apart.
Allow me to quote an average maga voter to get an idea of where their head is at.
"Gerry mandering was first used by Eldridge Gerry.
He did this to limit the power of pro slavery democrats.
We have the same problem now with democrats, except they are more evil than slavery protectors, and probably 80% of the republicans are just as cowardly treasonous, and bloodthirsty.
Gerrymandering is being done by the Democratic Party by the tens of millions. It's their open border policy. There are 35 to 60,000,000 foreigners in this country being counted on the census for house representation and they vote as foreigners who snuck into our country in many states like California where it is illegal to show id to vote or for a"
> Bernie Sanders called unauthorized immigration from Mexico a “Koch Brothers conspiracy”
Ooh, I love playing the misquote game.
>"Open borders? No, that's a Koch brothers proposal... What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don't believe in that," Sanders said.
So not seeing your point, literally at all. You think red cap America is against immigration because they have empathy for the underpaid immigrant worker? If so come buy some oceanfront in Denver.
I’m not misquoting you are selectively quoting the Klein interview, he reiterated the point on other occasions and was always opposed to low skill immigration. His point wasn’t that he thought the immigrants were exploited, he said in the interview you’re quoting that it was because “[it] is a right-wing scheme meant to flood the US with cheap labor and depress wages for native-born workers.”
Sanders made a specifically nativist argument, along with being a total moron on economics.
Ahh yes downvote me for including the next line of the quote…
That's actually not what the article says, it's a byproduct:
>The latest study found “no evidence” that job opportunities had increased in immigrant-heavy sectors, nor that employers were raising wages in a bid to attract more U.S.-born workers.
The more realistic outcome is what businesses usually do when a labor supply dries up: scale back their operations.
Also this immensely highlights the importance of unions and the effects on wages. Being able to scale back leaves some levers of power with the businesses to play this game. Not so much when they can be shut down entirely.
He is a moron. He spent 50 years supporting tariffs, fighting immigration, supporting rent control, and on and on. For ever issue in economics where the data is fairly settled, he’s been on the wrong side. The man is a fucking idiot.
There’s also this, which I love https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders
And immigration is an easy cudgel for the GOP to use as a political weapon to keep their base angry, they keep the system broken. Then run on “look how broke”.
It even works on Cubans in south Florida, and Hispanic people in South Texas.
The USA needs immigrants. And with a broken system, for millions it’s easier to not follow the law.
I apologize for my ignorance, but this article seems to tie American workers “leaving the workforce” to “jobs lost”.
Am I crazy to suggest that workers leaving the workforce may simply be due to an aging Baby Boomer demographic?
I may have misread the article, but it isn’t really describing jobs lost but workers in certain industries leaving the labor force, which as I understand is a phenomenon occurring broadly as workers retire.
I am glad to be corrected on this if the data suggests something deeper.
Addendum: I found the following data set which shows people 65+ who have left the workforce. It shows a trend going back to Covid of heightened “early retirees” which may buoy my argument.
"Many workers who were born in the U.S. benefited from a complementary immigrant workforce that supported parts of their industry, according to a study by researchers at the University of Colorado Boulder and published last week by the National Bureau of Economic Research. But with the Trump administration’s immigration crackdown over the past year, largely mediated through ICE, at least 1.2 million foreign-born workers have left the labor force, dismantling the structure that supported native-born jobs too."
“Heightened ICE activity is harming the labor market overall, and we find no evidence that it is benefiting U.S.-born workers,” Chloe East, one of the study’s authors, said in a statement. “If anything, job opportunities for U.S.-born workers are going down as a result.”'
"Few things in economics happen in isolation, and complementarity occurs when one piece of the economic puzzle functions better or more productively when paired with another input. Workers are a clear winner thanks to this economic rule, with most employees benefiting enormously when others, such as immigrants, are allowed to participate in the workforce. The catch with complementarity, however, is that its effect is most noticeable when one part of the pairing gets stripped away."
"The researchers behind the recent study crunched national labor market and ICE arrests data from the past year, a period during which daily apprehensions by ICE surged from around 300 to nearly 1,300. The authors then compared labor effects in areas with large upticks in arrest with comparatively stable ones to see how total employment changed in places where the foreign-born workforce suddenly shrunk or vanished. The study focused its findings on male workers, who are demographically more likely to be affected by immigration enforcement."
"The authors found that in an average area that saw a surge in ICE activity, 7,574 likely undocumented male workers stopped working, coming out to around six males leaving the workforce for every ICE arrest, primarily out of fear of being arrested themselves."
“Chilling effects capture the fact that heightened ICE activity may cause people to be fearful of participating in their regular activities—including going to work,” the study’s authors wrote."
"That immigrant labor is a complement instead of a replacement for native-born work is already known. A report published last year by the Penn Wharton Budget Model found that even high-skilled workers—which tend to be native-born—are affected by mass deportations and the removal of undocumented workers from the labor force. Depending on the scale of deportations, high-skilled workers could see their wages fall up to 2.8% over the next 30 years relative to a scenario without an immigration crackdown, the report found."
If only we had decades of research showing even undocumented people pay more in taxes vs. services they get vs. citizens and that they greatly benefit the economy. Oh wait, we do.
that is NOT what the article says it says the study found that for every arrest roughly 6 men in those communities also stopped showing up for work. not that 6 people literally lost their job due to the arrests.
It’s confusing because there are two effects noted and both involve the same ratio.
“In an average high-enforcement area, the number of U.S.-born male workers fell by 1,200, the authors found, coming out to approximately one job loss for every six likely undocumented workers who left the labor force.”
Has anyone thought of the possibility that immigrants are always used as the red herring by politicians across the world for all new administration hopefuls?
It’s much easier to take swift police actions than it is to actually do things that help like build infrastructure, lower medical costs, expand education etc.
I wouldn’t say there’s any relation between immigrants being deported to citizens losing jobs. The root cause is the economic recession that has been masked by the Fed, govt and Wall Street.
But if we evaluate the economy as a whole, net immigration has been a boon for the United States. But tell that to hardcore racial nationalists. They’re happy with a sinking ship as long as they’re the last ones on it.
Justifying paying low wages and illegal hiring practices is disgraceful.Allowing migrants into the country and offering no clear path to citizenship shows the true purpose is to create an additional underclass to exploit. Creating strain on affordability of housing, scarcity of resources and opportunities for poor and working class families. Mass immigration benefits the wealthy and industry and immediately harms the marginalized and financially vulnerable citizens.
You’re making a great case for streamlining and updating America’s outdated immigration system. Get rid of the numerous hurdles and create a system that integrates immigrants faster than a decade, allowing them to work & receive worker protections current Americans already receive
This. I can’t believe people don’t see it for how it is. Why hire Americans when you know you can get a truck load of illegal immigrants that will do anything you say because they want to stay in the country. Dangerous slippery slope Americans rather turn a blind eye too.
This fake crocodile tears argument is easily countered by the fact that these people came here, often with great difficulty, because whatever they were leaving behind was worse. I can only imagine that among white supremacists y'all imagine that this will convince bleeding heart liberals, but anyone with a mote of rational thought can see right through it, which is why only Nazis keep repeating it, thinking it makes any logical sense
It’s not an argument it’s a statement of fact, that has zero racial component. The beneficiaries of undocumented immigration are those who exploit their labor. I said absolutely nothing derogatory about the individuals seeking a better life for themselves.
The beneficiaries of undocumented immigration also includes undocumented immigrants. If it didn't, they wouldn't come here. Could they have even better lives if they also had a path to immigration? Of course, but I'm really not seeing a point here other than you want people coming here without documentation to stay in the countries they are fleeing with good reason
As to your argument about competing with resources with poor Americans I also don't see it.
According to this the increase in housing prices started before the recent surge in immigration. Illegal immigrants don't receive services meant for working class citizens, because they aren't citizens
So my point remains that you are using contrived sympathy for immigrants who want to be here, for whom the wages and personal safety are greater in America than in their home countries, in order to argue that they should not be allowed here
If you are concerned about working class Americans not getting their fair share, then your focus should be on government spending priorities and increasing housing supply, not immigrants who fought and sacrificed to be here
The immigrants and working poor are in the same situation and the article clearly states that. My point is that it is an entirely manufactured situation.
Did you read the article? Not once does it address housing costs or inflation. What it actually says is that when enforcement measures are implemented, companies stop projects. It says that a company employing 6 undocumented workers is also employing one “legal” worker, when they have to stop working all 7 workers lose their jobs.
Did anyone actually believe this was about the economy? It's about racism and removing minorities. Look what they're doing to military members, especially the Marines.
They've specifically been erasing military records and recognitions of achievements and sacrifices by minorities in the military.
"[The administration's] purge from the Pentagon website included the achievements of historically underrepresented groups, such as Navajo code talkers, Tuskegee Airmen, medal of honor recipients, and women veterans." - Whole Wikipedia article dedicated to it.
>A profile of [black] Medal of Honor recipient Charles C. Rogers was deleted, with a portion of the URL changed from "medal" to "deimedal"
>The U.S. Air Force deleted a biography of the first woman in United States Air Force Thunderbirds demonstration squadron, retired colonel Nicole Malachowski.[10]
>The U.S. Marine Corps deleted an article about the first Black Marine, technical sergeant Alfred Masters, who joined the service in 1942 for the Pacific War (1941–45).[11]
>The Department of Defense deleted a profile of the first-ever black Medal of Honor recipient, Sergeant William Carney of the 54th Massachusetts Colored Infantry"
Certain studies say deporting undocumented immigrants would hurt the economy, but that ignores the reality that employers would be forced to raise wages to attract American workers instead of relying on cheap labor. At the same time, AI is already creating a growing class of underemployed graduates who will never utilize their degree thus competing in an increasingly weak job market for the same jobs held by undocumented immigrants.
Let’s be honest, mass immigration suppresses wages for lower and middle-class workers. There is no real labor shortage - there is a wage shortage. Jobs with actually decent pay and conditions never struggle to find employees. Lower immigration would strengthen workers’ bargaining power and put pressure on employers to pay properly. The disruption of AI will make having 20 million undocumented immigrants in the labor market a nightmare.
Exactly, I wish we could be honest about the harms of immigration without being called racist, whether it be for economic or cultural concerns. I want what's best for American workers and I generally lean left on most issues except for immigration and gender/dei crap. There's no pleasing the far left in that regard.
Costs are soaring at all time highs--guess what else is soaring to all time highs? EARNINGS. Corporations are making more and more money while keeping wages stagnant.
supply side econ but immigrant labor. go fix some lawns and roofs and pick up crops and do dishes .. then we’ll talk. your made up assumptions never match against the reality but why should that stop you.
Supporters of ICE and deportation are not primarily concerned with jobs. Their focus is on deporting people who are not like them, considerations about jobs and the economy come second, if it even comes to their mind. Sometimes i think that they believe everything will magically fix itself once everyone is deported.
They absolutely believe that. The psychology of MAGA and how Trump made people believe in and fear a boogeyman that never existed will be studied for generations.
Hmm, no link to study, so no scrutiny on the findings. Wouldn't know if its because of ICE or if its because of the k-shaped economy or massive layoffs by tech firms.
I'm very cautious of studies that seem to validate political leanings whether its left or right, especially an article based on a study, where the author did no more than read it's synopsis, and they most certainly did not go in depth into reading the methodology behind the study.
Neither did the S.A. because it was never the goal to help the economy. It was to make a paramilitary force usable on domestic territory accountable only to Trump.
"Immigrants accounted for 14 percent of tax revenue and 7 percent of government spending from 1994 to 2023. Even if the government had not spent a dollar on immigrants, while somehow still getting all their tax revenue, the US government at all levels would still have run a $20 trillion deficit. Immigrants are not to blame for government deficits. Indeed, they reduced the deficit by about $14.5 trillion."
Don't care unvetted people who jumped the line to be here, have zero allegiance to the u.s. and waste tremendous resources meant for Americans must go.
Didn't need a study to tell me that. My bank account is significantly smaller than this time last year. No new changes from myself. No major events at home.
If republicans were actually serious about illegal immigration, they’re not, they would target and heavily fine the business owners hiring illegals.
Illegals come to America because they can get a job. Deporting people is like picking leaves off a tree when your goal is to remove the tree.
Example: A restaurant that made 2 mil last year has 3 partners and hired 10 illegals.
You fine each owner 100k per illegal and fine the business 50% of PY revenue.
That comes out to 1 mil per partner and 1 mil for the business in fines. Jail is a no go because then you don’t get the fines or other tax revenue the business owners would generate.
You the take the 10 illegals and vet them. If they’re not criminals you give them a path to citizenship.
But as you can see republicans just want tik tok clips to placate the base. They don’t actually care about solving issues.
How do you expect them to go on a path to citizenship if they can’t get jobs because you fined their employers out of business? Do you really think that small restaurant owners and farmers have a million dollars plus 50% of revenue to pay a fine?
Almost like with less people means the production possibility curve goes down and once it hits a certain point the multiplier effect takes over and the company lays off people first then goes under water and out of business. Don't forget one person's income is another person's pay so deport an immigrant and that is someone losing their pay.
About a year more of this Insanity will start affecting the US economy. Look for unpicked unpacked food shortages causing prices to go up. Labor intensive Company bankruptcies or shutdowns and relocations to find labor in foreign countries.
Especially look for poorer White people finally willing to work as menial labor.
This is going to be rough as the folks pushing for no immigrants watch the actual self inflicted results of it.
ICE provides up to $50,000 in signing and retention bonuses, along with loan forgiveness options.
The U.S. Border Patrol offers up to $20,000 in recruitment incentives—half paid after academy graduation and half for choosing a priority location—plus up to $40,000 in retention bonuses over four years.
Someone should do a study from the year 1980 on how many jobs were lost by citizens and filled by illegals and have wages stagnated over the years do to these jobs being filled by illegals?
The citation appears to say 2026. Did they consider any sort of historical data in the analysis?
If they did not, I could really care less what the article or study states. Every President since Bill Clinton has had a “illegal immigration” stance. In the 21st century, Obama removed more illegals than any other President.
So did we review the trend data since Clinton who demanded we build a southern wall? Or is this another nonserious review of a few months of statistics to target Trump?
Trump also created migrant worker visas that employ "seasonal" workers year round. The deportations HAVE dramatically reduced crime in certain low income areas.
Yes, the administration is doing that because their previous actions crippled a lot of farmers, construction companies and other labor-intensive operations. Not that it’s publicizing that, because then they’d have to admit that what they did actively harmed US businesses.
https://www.ibtimes.com/trump-admin-quietly-brings-back-migrant-workers-fix-farm-labour-shortage-it-created-3799331
Would truly like to see something supporting the claim of reduced crime due specifically to deportations.
Maybe, except that illegal immigrants use vast amounts of resources in education and healthcare and social services without contributing back. And of course the real issue is you have a bunch of people in the country that have zero loyalty to the country or desire to be part of the country and they were not vetted even to the point of disease and vaccines. They need to be removed.
Well common sense will tell you that having a huge number of people who dont pay taxes and dont speak the language will put a strain on any system. But sure:
The premise of this post is wrong. Stop taking fascists at their word, they are not removing immigrants to help the economy, they are doing it because they are racist. By using a title like this, all you are doing is legitimizing their claim. Stop doing that. Nazis cant be reasoned with, you wont change their mind.
Literally what every credible economist said was going to happen has happened. 1.2 million foreign-born workers have left the labor force, dismantling the structure that supported native-born jobs too.
“Heightened ICE activity is harming the labor market overall, and we find no evidence that it is benefiting U.S.-born workers. If anything, job opportunities for U.S.-born workers are going down as a result.”
The level is record high, but the growth rate cratered. In 2024 alone, construction added 150,000 jobs. From January 2025 through March 2026, it’s added only about 66,000, less than HALF the prior year’s pace. The industry isn’t growing, it’s stagnating.
No shit, there are countless studies that show migrants are a net boom on the economy. And even more studies that show the majority of them return to their home country within 7 years of working in the US. The only people that believe migrants are stealing jobs and ruining the economy are uninformed voters that watch Fox News as their primary source of information. Well at least we still have Moviefone.
I dont think anyone is asking if ICE is helping the economy, rather does having such an enormous amount of illegal and undocumented immigrant hurt the economy.
The opposite actually, as they make up ~30% of the construction labor force, mass deportions slow development and/or even force major housing projects to stop due to worker shortages, thereby causing the housing crisis to worsen.
I've cited a different study on this before, but another study on how severe immigration enforcement affects housing affordability is Howard et al. ("How do labor shortages affect residential construction and housing affordability?" 2024), which showed large scale deportions significantly slowed the building of homes and that increased the price of housing by at least 17%.
Quoting the study: "Overall, our results show that housing supply is highly sensitive to labor supply."
Furthermore, the study also showed "Net reductions in labor supply induce a slowdown in building, and
as a consequence negative shocks to undocumented labor supply translate into employment
declines for US-born workers on both the extensive and intensive margin." (That is, US construction workers were left unemployed as well as construction projects halted due to a lack of labor)
Yeah, I'm not saying they shouldn't have housing. They should have legal status if we really need them working in the country. Legal status would also let city and county governments know how many folks need services in an area and help us integrate them better into our communities (see places where we've brought in large populations of legal asylum resettlements)
If an undocumented worker is taking “your” house you need to work harder bud. Literally get a job making 50k and have your partner work and you too can buy a house. Even in trump shitholes 50k a year should be easy.
I popped off without any context, and it's easy to misinterpret that, so let me clarify.
Undocumented folks are absolutely consuming housing.
The fact that they are undocumented means that county and city governments have no real idea of the services they need (hospitals, schools, police, public utility usage, etc).
Having a legal status, for the immigration we need, helps us incorporate them to our communities.
I can say flat out, telling someone who's concerned about this that they 'need to work harder' or 'move to a trump shit hole' is not how you build support for treating illegal immigrants with compassion or reforming our immigration system. As someone who grew up in and escaped a very conservative area, you come off to them as yet another out of touch dem talking down to them. Sometimes you have to chose the thing that gets you closer to your goals over that which feels good.
If you want to accuse me of not being 'a true Scottsman' over using interchangeable words, I can't stop you. My views on the subject are nuanced.
Our current situation is a mess. This is where we wind up when our legal immigration system does not meet demand, we have porous borders and an easily exploited system around asylum. Until those conditions are fixed, I cannot hold it against someone for taking advantage of it.
My concern is less that someone decided not to participate in our broken legal immigration system, than it is that we have 10's of millions of people stuck as an exploited underclass. That causes all sorts of problems, both for them, and US citizens.
The us has had a below replacement birth rate since the 70's. Immigration, legal and illegal are the cause of the housing shortage. Full stop, the population would be lower with more vacant housing if they weren't here.
Did you post a article like this under Clinton and Obama? Did you post a article about CNN riding in ICE cars to help report on Deportations. Did you talk about the over 5000 kids separated from parents under Obama to CPS ir the cages under Obama or how Obama criticized Bush for not depirting enough illegals? My guess you didn't nor did do any research.
But I like it. We are a land of immigrants and im thankful that my ancestors fled Europe in the early 1900s but we are also a land of law and order where I demand immigrants follow our process.
Welp, Trump has fired over 100 immigration judges, so that kinda constricts the legal pathways for immigrants. Also, feel free to search for “immigrants detained at hearings” and there’s numerous times when ICE literally yanked people going into or emerging from hearings, so they’re grabbing people who are already doing everything they’re been told to do, so there’s that.
Welp, too much immigration hurts wages of perfectly capable Americans and creates excessive demand for housing making home ownership difficulty for Americans. Why should we make it harder for average Americans to succeed?
> Every dollar an immigrant makes, even an illegal one, gets spent back into the economy.
As much as I sympathize with their plight and want there to be an easy, paved path for legal immigration, your statement completely ignores remittances. No, not every dollar made here by an illegal goes back into the economy. A good chunk gets sent back home. Nothing particularly wrong with that, mind you, but it's certainly not 1:1
He's really gotta spell it out for people like you doesn't he. Every dollar gets spent. If he said "world economy" instead of just "economy" would it have been dumbed down enough for you then?
The point is the money goes back into circulation, and that is what grows economies - where as tax breaks for billionaires leads to money being hoarded, and we get things like the stagflation we have now.
You do realize that no money ever exits the world economy, except maybe the money we spend on space probes right. Deeply ironic you felt you could 'spell it out for me'. It gave me a chuckle, thanks.
But it was never about ''helping the economy''. The only people that really matter to the regime are doing great (the rich). This was always about putting the fear in colored people, while limiting their rights, as well as their economic and financial power.
Trump's base has an overlap between isolationists / nationalists, Washington warhawks and their proxy rulers, Israeli influencers, good ol' fashioned racists, religious authoritarians and wealthy private interests. And all of them are eating good under Trump.
What's the unemployment rate at again? Illegal immigrants are drained on the local economy and stretch resources which ultimately robs from the quality and abundance of resources to those in the community. Class sizes increase availability of doctors fire police and the rest are all stretched. This is why legal immigration is championed and illegal immigration is frowned upon
Exact-Site9980 | 24 days ago
I think they're eliminating jobs even faster than they're deporting immigrants. Tariffs, mass firings, cutting off programs and research, being shitty to our allies, etc
sierrabravo1984 | 24 days ago
Don't forget AI, companies are using that instead of people.
monkeyamongmen | 24 days ago
AI-washing and the massive layoffs hitting the economy
''experts interviewed by CNBC said some companies could be “AI-washing” their job cuts, blaming layoffs on the new technology to cover up business fumbles and old-fashioned cost cutting''
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/04/white-collar-layoffs-ai-cost-cutting-tariffs.html
Timely-Hospital8746 | 24 days ago
Another study showed AI costs more than an employee still. Another one showed only 2% of software engineers are using it efficiently. It's all bullshit.
anewleaf1234 | 24 days ago
But AI is controllable, never calls in sick, never needs benefits and can work 24/7.
And can do lots of jobs humans used to.
ap0577 | 24 days ago
You do realize that AI is becoming more and more expensive as it scales correct?
JStonehaus | 24 days ago
I think that the person was saying that that's what companies think.
Creepy_Trouble_5980 | 24 days ago
The amount of water and electricity of 500 homes is not cheaper it's just a different expense.
Odd_Perspective_2487 | 24 days ago
It’s actually not though, they wanna build an ai data center in Utah to consume over double the electricity of the entire state combined. A single data center will use more power than millions of people, homes and water just so a kid can search why is water wet.
Oh and it will pay no taxes, at all while using public resources so a billionaire investor can be richer.
ap0577 | 24 days ago
? Is this AI delusion syndrome
ModishShrink | 24 days ago
Well one of them is a meaningful expense, and the other one is a made up expense to replace those 500 people with work a third of the quality of the real thing, while costing just as much if not more.
Smart.
Timely-Hospital8746 | 24 days ago
Fucking insane take. People need water and power because they're people and have inherent value. Producing value for a company isn't the reason we exist.
Gamiac | 24 days ago
> AI is controllable
Citation fucking needed lmfao, we are never solving alignment
Timely-Hospital8746 | 24 days ago
The ai companies themselves have published papers showing hallucinations are mathematically impossible to prevent.
htopconspiracytheory | 24 days ago
Nah, Marc Andreessen posted that he just puts "do not hallucinate" in his prompt and it fixes everything.
iAwesome3 | 23 days ago
I wonder if he used AI to come up with that solution.
ooqq | 24 days ago
As said, they can't work. AI still is a computer. Yes, a computer needs no benefits, beeps 24/7 and never call sick (until it breaks), but you need someone pushing the right buttons.
anewleaf1234 | 24 days ago
Yes, it is a computer. And computers and automation have taken over jobs that used to be done by humans.
And yes, you can hire a few people to oversee, but you aren't going to need the full human staff you needed before.
Lots of your former starting jobs can be done, with monitoring, by AI.
Old research jobs can be done by AI. Customer service can be done by AI. Tutoring is increasingly done by AI.
Hell, China has entire factories where all work is done by computers.
fredjutsu | 24 days ago
A machine that makes twice as many mistakes than humans, completely lacks fluid intelligence (ie cannot function in novel, dynamic environments) and works 24/7 creates extra work that humans have to clean up. Resulting in being far more expensive than just having human labor.
gwenver | 24 days ago
I was thinking this myself. That, and the big tech companies feeling obliged to lay people off to "prove" AI is working.
fredjutsu | 24 days ago
They aren't though. They are using the AI narrative as cover. But AI itself is demonstrably more expensive than human labor because it's nowhere near as capable as the clearly concerted media narrative would have you believe.
Saying this as someone who builds homegrown AI models.
Kitchen-Paint-3946 | 24 days ago
Project 2025 by design.. crate chaos.. riots.. squeeze as much money from working class… increase crime … “traitors to America”
the insurrection act, suspend elections…
Sounds like a dystopian movie right?
ThatSyd | 24 days ago
What are you talking about? Citation needed.
YuriSenapi | 24 days ago
a lot of white-collar jobs also exist because of blue-collar jobs. e.g. an architect only exists because of engineers and technicians.
by cutting off all the immigrant currently filling blue-collar roles, that is also inadvertently eliminating more jobs.
ap0577 | 24 days ago
This is a well established phenomenon called complementarity.
Apprehensive-Ad9523 | 24 days ago
You got what you voted for...End of the future...And you were warned the first time...
Wyevez | 24 days ago
and the second time, and the third time. "how did this happen?!?!? say the country that elected a super-obvious conman and continue to cheer him on"
fredjutsu | 24 days ago
Consider also that immigrants - especially the ones being deported en masse - are central to keeping the cost of goods down. When you eliminate the key engine of your laborforce and don't actually replace it with anything (because AI contribution to labor productivity is less than 1%)...you're going to have a bad time especially when the underlying macroeconomics were already bad.
skippitydoodah123 | 24 days ago
Buncha idiots, the lot of them, that voted for this.
The pro union ones really throw me off. Not because unions are bad but because... what?!
VeteranSergeant | 24 days ago
The World Cup was projected to bring massive numbers of foreign tourists to the country, and now hotels in 9 out of the 11 venue cities are reporting lower-than-normal reservations for the time frame, let alone the expected WC boost. Prices are making it less attractive for American fans already squeezed by inflation. Prices and ICEs are making it unattractive for foreign fans to risk coming to America.
Exact-Site9980 | 23 days ago
But he got that hideous FIFA peace prize
Woodchuck251 | 24 days ago
>In sectors such as construction, where the share of immigrant workers is high, U.S.-born workers often take up roles that depend on work provided by foreign-born counterparts, such as manual labor.
I mean, this is a very charitable way of describing exploitation, let's be honest here.
Prestigious_Load1699 | 24 days ago
From what I am seeing, total employment in construction is at record highs:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USCONS
What am I missing here?
treevaahyn | 23 days ago
Appreciate the link. But part of what it’s saying (from my perspective and ime) is that 25-30% of construction workers are immigrants so even if people are filling the roles lost due to ICE kidnapping immigrants and locking them up in cages isn’t great for construction, most notably pricing. Immigrants are usually paid a lot less than citizens so even if the jobs are filled the cost of construction labor will increase. Considering housing market is already a mess and unaffordable to many it seems it may only get worse and more expensive. So long term going to likely raise costs and make owning a home harder and higher rents. Considering that with the current job market being atrocious is not a good combination for us long term. But that’s just my take so I’m sure there’s a lot of other perspectives or insights that we may all be missing.
Deusgero | 24 days ago
Set the graph to 5Y and see what happens around Jan 2025.
Such a massive slowdown is generally not a good sign, economies are meant to grow over time either with productivity gains. From technology or human capital or just more people working in them. Treading water is generally a bad sign
Prestigious_Load1699 | 23 days ago
Honestly that can't reasonably be called a massive slowdown at all.
1980-1983, 1989-1992, 2006-2010 are massive slowdowns.
Jan 2025 - Aug 2025 is a very minor dip, likely due as much to the tariffs than anything ICE was doing.
And as mentioned the market quickly recovered and is at all-time highs.
Deusgero | 23 days ago
it's a slowdown, not a recession like in the ones you mentioned, economy is still chugging it's just not a good sign. Most recessions are precipitated by a slowdown exactly like the one we're seeing now
and we're not out of it yet, there is barely an increase since Jan 2025 and early 2026 are still rocky. You generally want to see 2 quarters of consistent growth before being confident you're out of it. ATH were posted in 1979, 1989 and 2006. There being an ATH is really not a worthwhile indicator. The rate of change of the graph is generally the best indicator
Gamer_Grease | 24 days ago
That’s just capitalism. If it wasn’t immigrants it would be Americans.
Money_Cost_2213 | 24 days ago
This is not a surprise.
Knowing how many billions undocumented citizens contribute to the economy, it was very obvious from the start that it was never about helping… not helping the economy, not helping citizens, not helping immigrants, not helping America. It was all meant to hurt and flex power and beat people into submission.
elektrik_noise | 24 days ago
I mean, the fact that whack job nasty Marjorie Taylor Greene called out the mass deportations as bad for business says a lot. Ofc it was when it affected hers did she care. They knew this, they were just pandering to racists and xenophobes for votes.
Icedidit | 24 days ago
She a demonic piece of shit that shouldn’t be listened to.
Republicans only start to “make sense” once they’re no longer in office.
gwenver | 24 days ago
It's weird how she went from being dumber than a brick to actually being quite insightful as of late. If she can do it what's holding back the other 70 million...
Tactless_Ogre | 24 days ago
Money
DFWPunk | 24 days ago
It's easy to seem intelligent when all you do is disagree with Trump.
shwarma_heaven | 24 days ago
One of the strongest drivers of GDP, outside of consumerism which it's also a factor of, is population growth.
Birth rates have been declining since the Baby Boom. So, what's been driving population growth???... You guessed it.
PapayaMysterious6393 | 24 days ago
Those are the wrong types of people who are increasing the population though. (for the Cons) Hence why they're going after abortion and will likely go after birth control. See project 25 and how they want women back home but not working.
shwarma_heaven | 24 days ago
Oh, the wealthy elite know it. They have to find a way to punish the Brown people, but keep the population growing...
Our economy is inflationary. It counts on the GDP every growing. If it ever stopped, or declined over a long period of time... they know their riches would be threatened as they are the ones with the most to lose.
alpacaMyToothbrush | 24 days ago
I think what ICE is doing is horrifically inhumane.
I also think it's complete bullshit that we're spending billions to round up illegal immigrants when you could go after the businesses hiring them so much more easily.
Every time I bring this up, someone says 'oh, they have to file an I-9! Those poor businesses are being taken advantage of by dishonest illegals!' and they say this without ever acknowledging that companies purposely subcontract to keep headcount low enough (<50?) that they do not have to go through the US's 'everify' service to vet that a worker has the right to work in the US.
I'm sorry, I just can't take anything a politician says about immigration seriously until they crack down on the businesses hiring second class citizens. If your business cannot survive without illegal immigrants, it should wither and die.
You need farm workers? You need people to work in your meat processing plants? Guess you'd better start pressuring your congressmen for a legal way for workers to come here and work for you. As it stands, those immigrants have basically no rights and are to scared to report abusive practices least they get deported themselves.
VeteranSergeant | 24 days ago
> If your business cannot survive without illegal immigrants, it should wither and die.
You have to remember that the businesses are getting squeezed from the top too, paying higher prices on raw materials, gas, any property they might rent, etc.
The small businesses finding workarounds are the symptom of our economy's disease of billionaires, oligopolies, and hedge funds, not the disease itself.
alpacaMyToothbrush | 23 days ago
I would have more leniency if the business community was not actively lobbying for 'business as usual'. I think the only way we reach a critical mass on immigration reform is if enough start facing consequences
VeteranSergeant | 23 days ago
Yes, but where is it more rational to apply the consequences to? Joe Derp, the guy who barely graduated from home school with his roofing business, or starting at the top with the well-educated billionaires constructing the system where they skim so much money out of the middle and working class that Joe Derp's margins tighten every year so he skirts the laws to stay afloat?
We need to avoid lionizing the "business community." These people are often hard workers, but not usually great thinkers.
kigurumibiblestudies | 24 days ago
In one of those endless Instagram accounts dedicated to political debate, I saw a dude saying "I'd rather have a 20% poorer economy if it made America look like... you know, before."
Many of them know the economy is going down the toilet. They see it as a necessary evil.
BigMax | 24 days ago
The crazy thing is that immigrants contribute more to the economy than non immigrants most of the time.
Thats because most of them DO pay their taxes, but they also can’t take advantage of services.
Think of social security alone. They will pay into that for decades and never get a penny back.
Hautamaki | 24 days ago
immigrants are also much more likely to be entrepreneurs, start new businesses, and actually create more jobs. Because of course they are; they are the type of people who are willing to uproot their entire lives and start over in another country; starting a new business is just one more small step for them,
Different-Leg-7511 | 24 days ago
Sba is limiting access to funds to immigrants. Might want to start thinking in present now.
NihiloZero | 24 days ago
Immigrants commit less crime because of similar and related reasons.
whittlingcanbefatal | 24 days ago
ICE is helping the economy of connected grifters providing overpriced and inhumane detention facilities.
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
It was never an economic question for voters. They didn’t enter into the voting booth focusing on the next quarter GDP growth. They approached it from an individual level and not from a macro America-Corporate Complex TM perspective.
Fearless-Feature-830 | 24 days ago
I’ve seen many idiots claim it would bring housing costs down
WingerRules | 24 days ago
People on r/conservative had threads of them salivating/laughing over taking the homes and businesses of mass deported people, just like ghouls did in Nazi Germany and during Japanese mass interment in the US.
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
It will.
KarmaticArmageddon | 24 days ago
No, it won't, because it drastically constrains supply. Who do you think builds new housing in this country? I don't see a lot of natural-born US citizens hammering away in new housing developments.
mistressbitcoin | 24 days ago
Housing prices have generally stalled the last few years.
Zaemz | 24 days ago
I don't buy the idea that it's got anything to do with deportations.
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
Supply and demand; and supply is restricted by government regulation much more than willing builders.
If you truly believe Americans can’t build houses without exploiting illegal immigrants I don’t think we will agree on this topic.
>don't see a lot of natural-born US citizens hammering away in new housing developments.
Because they are somehow immune to government worksite regulations. It’s amazing how the restrictions only prevent Americans from work.
23rdCenturySouth | 24 days ago
Immigrant population: 3% of home demand
Immigrant construction workers: 20% of home supply labor force
You need to check your math.
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
Home prices will be lower May 2027.
Microplasticsharts | 24 days ago
lol, stagflation will fix that.
alpacaMyToothbrush | 24 days ago
What portion of the construction industry do you think is done by illegal immigrants?
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
You are gonna tell me; go ahead
alpacaMyToothbrush | 24 days ago
https://forumtogether.org/article/immigrant-construction-workers-in-the-united-states
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
National tragedy all around.
bobandgeorge | 24 days ago
It won't. They either live together in one cramped space or they live with family/friends that are here legally. If it's the first case, whoopdiedoo, you kicked out six laborers for one vacancy to open and if it's the second, the people that already live there aren't going to stop living there.
padreviper | 24 days ago
They approached it from fear. The fear that was promulgated by the GOP AND DJT specifically.
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
I don’t know what your profession is but if the government moved 1000 capable workers in that field to your town would you be fearful or excited that local GDP was gonna go up?
movzx | 24 days ago
I wouldn't think twice about it because if there's demand enough for 1000 workers, there's demand enough for 1001.
padreviper | 24 days ago
Deflection.
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
How? It’s what every person outside of a C-suite position counting down the days to retirement thinks whenever the government talks mass migration, open borders, or H-1b visas.
In order for people to have opportunities there has to be opportunities for them. The current approach absolutely decimates the native workforce outside of the Ivy League consultant class.
Hautamaki | 24 days ago
Opportunities are created by demand. You get increased demand by increased number of consumers. Anti immigration advocates always operate under the logic that demand is fixed and all that happens is supply of labour is increased and thus bargaining power is decreased. But immigration increases demand too, and it also increases economy of scale, hence everyone is net wealthier.
Arilluss | 24 days ago
Trump didn't say electricians were moving to the US, he said rapists were.
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
Electricians aren’t moving to the US, but people willing to attempt electrical wiring with no oversight or reporting are.
Arilluss | 24 days ago
But that's not what OP was talking about, he was talking about Trump and the GOP's racial fearmongering
As far as electricians go, there are local laws already on the books to deal with unlicensed electricians, not to mention those people aren't competing with qualified electricians, they are serving people who can't afford qualified electricians
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
> there are local laws already on the books to deal with unlicensed electricians
Oh you think out of all the laws our leaders ignore and subvert they are running around enforcing these?
Arilluss | 24 days ago
Welcome to capitalism
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
Failure of government is not capitalism. Governments are corrupt and fail regardless of economic policy. It’s more related to society - which of course governments have the position and power to tear apart.
TrexPushupBra | 24 days ago
Allow me to quote an average maga voter to get an idea of where their head is at.
"Gerry mandering was first used by Eldridge Gerry. He did this to limit the power of pro slavery democrats. We have the same problem now with democrats, except they are more evil than slavery protectors, and probably 80% of the republicans are just as cowardly treasonous, and bloodthirsty. Gerrymandering is being done by the Democratic Party by the tens of millions. It's their open border policy. There are 35 to 60,000,000 foreigners in this country being counted on the census for house representation and they vote as foreigners who snuck into our country in many states like California where it is illegal to show id to vote or for a"
303uru | 24 days ago
Racism is alive an well in America.
-Ch4s3- | 24 days ago
Was it racism when Bernie Sanders called unauthorized immigration from Mexico a “Koch Brothers conspiracy”?
My point is that it’s can easily be explained by economic illiteracy, in many cases. (Obviously not always)
303uru | 24 days ago
> Bernie Sanders called unauthorized immigration from Mexico a “Koch Brothers conspiracy”
Ooh, I love playing the misquote game.
>"Open borders? No, that's a Koch brothers proposal... What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don't believe in that," Sanders said.
So not seeing your point, literally at all. You think red cap America is against immigration because they have empathy for the underpaid immigrant worker? If so come buy some oceanfront in Denver.
-Ch4s3- | 24 days ago
I’m not misquoting you are selectively quoting the Klein interview, he reiterated the point on other occasions and was always opposed to low skill immigration. His point wasn’t that he thought the immigrants were exploited, he said in the interview you’re quoting that it was because “[it] is a right-wing scheme meant to flood the US with cheap labor and depress wages for native-born workers.”
Sanders made a specifically nativist argument, along with being a total moron on economics.
Ahh yes downvote me for including the next line of the quote…
Visual-Hunter-1010 | 24 days ago
> along with being a total moron on economics.
You're going to have to do way better than that...
-Ch4s3- | 24 days ago
He literally said that he thought immigration hurt wages, the very thing this article is about refuting.
Visual-Hunter-1010 | 24 days ago
That's actually not what the article says, it's a byproduct:
>The latest study found “no evidence” that job opportunities had increased in immigrant-heavy sectors, nor that employers were raising wages in a bid to attract more U.S.-born workers. The more realistic outcome is what businesses usually do when a labor supply dries up: scale back their operations.
Also this immensely highlights the importance of unions and the effects on wages. Being able to scale back leaves some levers of power with the businesses to play this game. Not so much when they can be shut down entirely.
But sure, Sanders is a total moron...
-Ch4s3- | 24 days ago
He is a moron. He spent 50 years supporting tariffs, fighting immigration, supporting rent control, and on and on. For ever issue in economics where the data is fairly settled, he’s been on the wrong side. The man is a fucking idiot.
There’s also this, which I love https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders
Arilluss | 24 days ago
You mean emotional level
Careless-Degree | 24 days ago
Humans are selfish emotional beings. So are the people who decide national policy despite claiming it’s centered around spreadsheets and numbers.
Forsaken_Ant7459 | 24 days ago
Hey but red hat scum get to hate and gloat, isn’t that worth it all?
djm2346 | 24 days ago
All of this
awesome-alpaca-ace | 24 days ago
I learned that immigrants create jobs for US citizens. That is a known fact from studies, so this really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
sheltonchoked | 24 days ago
And immigration is an easy cudgel for the GOP to use as a political weapon to keep their base angry, they keep the system broken. Then run on “look how broke”.
It even works on Cubans in south Florida, and Hispanic people in South Texas.
The USA needs immigrants. And with a broken system, for millions it’s easier to not follow the law.
Significant-Self5907 | 24 days ago
It was never about the economy. It was always about racism.
MDCCCLV | 24 days ago
The jobs where it might matter would be the legal h1b jobs that pay well.
Proof_Scene_9281 | 24 days ago
billions?
Money_Cost_2213 | 24 days ago
Yes with a B.
Low-Cartographer8758 | 23 days ago
dark triad they do not have morals and empathy. It’s just a power game.
FJ-creek-7381 | 24 days ago
Or about racism/white nationalism
blandonia | 24 days ago
And fear of brown people
ScoffersGonnaScoff | 24 days ago
We’ve already seen this in a study previously, haven’t we??
jarena009 | 24 days ago
Well yeah, when you remove people from a population, you lose consumption and production from an economy, so the demand for work is reduced.
Prestigious_Load1699 | 24 days ago
I apologize for my ignorance, but this article seems to tie American workers “leaving the workforce” to “jobs lost”.
Am I crazy to suggest that workers leaving the workforce may simply be due to an aging Baby Boomer demographic?
I may have misread the article, but it isn’t really describing jobs lost but workers in certain industries leaving the labor force, which as I understand is a phenomenon occurring broadly as workers retire.
I am glad to be corrected on this if the data suggests something deeper.
Addendum: I found the following data set which shows people 65+ who have left the workforce. It shows a trend going back to Covid of heightened “early retirees” which may buoy my argument.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU05075379
MDCCCLV | 24 days ago
A lot of these aren't on paper at all so you have to look at indirect numbers and material and energy use as well.
[OP] ChiGuy6124 | 24 days ago
The report: https://www.chloeneast.com/uploads/8/9/9/7/8997263/w35129.pdf
"Many workers who were born in the U.S. benefited from a complementary immigrant workforce that supported parts of their industry, according to a study by researchers at the University of Colorado Boulder and published last week by the National Bureau of Economic Research. But with the Trump administration’s immigration crackdown over the past year, largely mediated through ICE, at least 1.2 million foreign-born workers have left the labor force, dismantling the structure that supported native-born jobs too."
“Heightened ICE activity is harming the labor market overall, and we find no evidence that it is benefiting U.S.-born workers,” Chloe East, one of the study’s authors, said in a statement. “If anything, job opportunities for U.S.-born workers are going down as a result.”'
"Few things in economics happen in isolation, and complementarity occurs when one piece of the economic puzzle functions better or more productively when paired with another input. Workers are a clear winner thanks to this economic rule, with most employees benefiting enormously when others, such as immigrants, are allowed to participate in the workforce. The catch with complementarity, however, is that its effect is most noticeable when one part of the pairing gets stripped away."
"The researchers behind the recent study crunched national labor market and ICE arrests data from the past year, a period during which daily apprehensions by ICE surged from around 300 to nearly 1,300. The authors then compared labor effects in areas with large upticks in arrest with comparatively stable ones to see how total employment changed in places where the foreign-born workforce suddenly shrunk or vanished. The study focused its findings on male workers, who are demographically more likely to be affected by immigration enforcement."
"The authors found that in an average area that saw a surge in ICE activity, 7,574 likely undocumented male workers stopped working, coming out to around six males leaving the workforce for every ICE arrest, primarily out of fear of being arrested themselves."
“Chilling effects capture the fact that heightened ICE activity may cause people to be fearful of participating in their regular activities—including going to work,” the study’s authors wrote."
"That immigrant labor is a complement instead of a replacement for native-born work is already known. A report published last year by the Penn Wharton Budget Model found that even high-skilled workers—which tend to be native-born—are affected by mass deportations and the removal of undocumented workers from the labor force. Depending on the scale of deportations, high-skilled workers could see their wages fall up to 2.8% over the next 30 years relative to a scenario without an immigration crackdown, the report found."
punarob | 24 days ago
If only we had decades of research showing even undocumented people pay more in taxes vs. services they get vs. citizens and that they greatly benefit the economy. Oh wait, we do.
NEWSmodsareTwats | 24 days ago
that is NOT what the article says it says the study found that for every arrest roughly 6 men in those communities also stopped showing up for work. not that 6 people literally lost their job due to the arrests.
Extension_Hand1326 | 23 days ago
It’s confusing because there are two effects noted and both involve the same ratio.
“In an average high-enforcement area, the number of U.S.-born male workers fell by 1,200, the authors found, coming out to approximately one job loss for every six likely undocumented workers who left the labor force.”
Curious_Party_4683 | 24 days ago
running a country on hate. wcgw???
im still surprised the stock market is still this high. thought the Dump would crashed it down to 30k by now. guess we will see by end of 2026...
Confident-Zone-5043 | 24 days ago
Thats because the stock market isnt ran on common sense and fundamentals anymore. In about 2020 it started to shift into more of an online casino.
ToughDesigner7072 | 24 days ago
Has anyone thought of the possibility that immigrants are always used as the red herring by politicians across the world for all new administration hopefuls?
It’s much easier to take swift police actions than it is to actually do things that help like build infrastructure, lower medical costs, expand education etc.
I wouldn’t say there’s any relation between immigrants being deported to citizens losing jobs. The root cause is the economic recession that has been masked by the Fed, govt and Wall Street.
But if we evaluate the economy as a whole, net immigration has been a boon for the United States. But tell that to hardcore racial nationalists. They’re happy with a sinking ship as long as they’re the last ones on it.
unsualardvark | 24 days ago
Justifying paying low wages and illegal hiring practices is disgraceful.Allowing migrants into the country and offering no clear path to citizenship shows the true purpose is to create an additional underclass to exploit. Creating strain on affordability of housing, scarcity of resources and opportunities for poor and working class families. Mass immigration benefits the wealthy and industry and immediately harms the marginalized and financially vulnerable citizens.
paddenice | 24 days ago
You’re making a great case for streamlining and updating America’s outdated immigration system. Get rid of the numerous hurdles and create a system that integrates immigrants faster than a decade, allowing them to work & receive worker protections current Americans already receive
unsualardvark | 24 days ago
I am absolutely making that argument, you are correct.
alpacaMyToothbrush | 24 days ago
Carrot and stick. Make legal immigration easier, and make companies who hire illegal immigrants pay dearly for their crimes
ifuaguyugetsauced | 24 days ago
This. I can’t believe people don’t see it for how it is. Why hire Americans when you know you can get a truck load of illegal immigrants that will do anything you say because they want to stay in the country. Dangerous slippery slope Americans rather turn a blind eye too.
AnalBeadsInSpace | 24 days ago
Wow, the headline is 24 words total, and that was still too many for you to understand. You really missed the point of this article.
exalted985451 | 24 days ago
Neoliberals refuse to part with their functional slave labor.
Microplasticsharts | 24 days ago
come back when republicans support immigration reform and prosecuting employers who hire illegal immigrants.
exalted985451 | 24 days ago
No to the former, yes to the latter.
Microplasticsharts | 24 days ago
🤡👆
Arilluss | 24 days ago
This fake crocodile tears argument is easily countered by the fact that these people came here, often with great difficulty, because whatever they were leaving behind was worse. I can only imagine that among white supremacists y'all imagine that this will convince bleeding heart liberals, but anyone with a mote of rational thought can see right through it, which is why only Nazis keep repeating it, thinking it makes any logical sense
unsualardvark | 24 days ago
It’s not an argument it’s a statement of fact, that has zero racial component. The beneficiaries of undocumented immigration are those who exploit their labor. I said absolutely nothing derogatory about the individuals seeking a better life for themselves.
Arilluss | 24 days ago
The beneficiaries of undocumented immigration also includes undocumented immigrants. If it didn't, they wouldn't come here. Could they have even better lives if they also had a path to immigration? Of course, but I'm really not seeing a point here other than you want people coming here without documentation to stay in the countries they are fleeing with good reason
As to your argument about competing with resources with poor Americans I also don't see it.
According to this the increase in housing prices started before the recent surge in immigration. Illegal immigrants don't receive services meant for working class citizens, because they aren't citizens
So my point remains that you are using contrived sympathy for immigrants who want to be here, for whom the wages and personal safety are greater in America than in their home countries, in order to argue that they should not be allowed here
If you are concerned about working class Americans not getting their fair share, then your focus should be on government spending priorities and increasing housing supply, not immigrants who fought and sacrificed to be here
unsualardvark | 24 days ago
The immigrants and working poor are in the same situation and the article clearly states that. My point is that it is an entirely manufactured situation.
Microplasticsharts | 24 days ago
And who is opposed to against both immigration reform and increasing legal immigration?
303uru | 24 days ago
> Creating strain on affordability of housing, scarcity of resources and opportunities for poor and working class families.
It would appear this very article calls bullshit on this "fact."
unsualardvark | 24 days ago
Did you read the article? Not once does it address housing costs or inflation. What it actually says is that when enforcement measures are implemented, companies stop projects. It says that a company employing 6 undocumented workers is also employing one “legal” worker, when they have to stop working all 7 workers lose their jobs.
azzanrev | 24 days ago
Did anyone actually believe this was about the economy? It's about racism and removing minorities. Look what they're doing to military members, especially the Marines.
WingerRules | 24 days ago
They've specifically been erasing military records and recognitions of achievements and sacrifices by minorities in the military.
"[The administration's] purge from the Pentagon website included the achievements of historically underrepresented groups, such as Navajo code talkers, Tuskegee Airmen, medal of honor recipients, and women veterans." - Whole Wikipedia article dedicated to it.
>A profile of [black] Medal of Honor recipient Charles C. Rogers was deleted, with a portion of the URL changed from "medal" to "deimedal"
>The U.S. Air Force deleted a biography of the first woman in United States Air Force Thunderbirds demonstration squadron, retired colonel Nicole Malachowski.[10]
>The U.S. Marine Corps deleted an article about the first Black Marine, technical sergeant Alfred Masters, who joined the service in 1942 for the Pacific War (1941–45).[11]
>The Department of Defense deleted a profile of the first-ever black Medal of Honor recipient, Sergeant William Carney of the 54th Massachusetts Colored Infantry"
etc, huge following list
Sebkl | 24 days ago
Certain studies say deporting undocumented immigrants would hurt the economy, but that ignores the reality that employers would be forced to raise wages to attract American workers instead of relying on cheap labor. At the same time, AI is already creating a growing class of underemployed graduates who will never utilize their degree thus competing in an increasingly weak job market for the same jobs held by undocumented immigrants.
Let’s be honest, mass immigration suppresses wages for lower and middle-class workers. There is no real labor shortage - there is a wage shortage. Jobs with actually decent pay and conditions never struggle to find employees. Lower immigration would strengthen workers’ bargaining power and put pressure on employers to pay properly. The disruption of AI will make having 20 million undocumented immigrants in the labor market a nightmare.
dontrackonme | 24 days ago
For proof, look at the last time immigration was severely curtailed. Salaries for the lower and middle-class workers went up the most in decades.
Sebkl | 24 days ago
Exactly, I wish we could be honest about the harms of immigration without being called racist, whether it be for economic or cultural concerns. I want what's best for American workers and I generally lean left on most issues except for immigration and gender/dei crap. There's no pleasing the far left in that regard.
thecodeofsilence | 24 days ago
Costs are soaring at all time highs--guess what else is soaring to all time highs? EARNINGS. Corporations are making more and more money while keeping wages stagnant.
Substantial_List_223 | 24 days ago
supply side econ but immigrant labor. go fix some lawns and roofs and pick up crops and do dishes .. then we’ll talk. your made up assumptions never match against the reality but why should that stop you.
Slivizasmet | 24 days ago
Supporters of ICE and deportation are not primarily concerned with jobs. Their focus is on deporting people who are not like them, considerations about jobs and the economy come second, if it even comes to their mind. Sometimes i think that they believe everything will magically fix itself once everyone is deported.
thecodeofsilence | 24 days ago
They absolutely believe that. The psychology of MAGA and how Trump made people believe in and fear a boogeyman that never existed will be studied for generations.
HedgeMoney | 23 days ago
Hmm, no link to study, so no scrutiny on the findings. Wouldn't know if its because of ICE or if its because of the k-shaped economy or massive layoffs by tech firms.
I'm very cautious of studies that seem to validate political leanings whether its left or right, especially an article based on a study, where the author did no more than read it's synopsis, and they most certainly did not go in depth into reading the methodology behind the study.
Direlion | 24 days ago
Neither did the S.A. because it was never the goal to help the economy. It was to make a paramilitary force usable on domestic territory accountable only to Trump.
Major_Shlongage | 24 days ago
I'd be wary of studies like this.
Keep in mind that these studies are often funded by the corporations that want illegal immigration. Then they can exploit these workers.
They're usually very pro-corporate. The same kind of "studies" always seem to show that decreasing the taxes on the wealthy are a good thing.
DrewBox13 | 24 days ago
"Illegal immigrant" and Immigrant are not the same. If you are here illegally I don't care about your employment or your economic contribution.
Duck-Murky | 24 days ago
"Immigrants accounted for 14 percent of tax revenue and 7 percent of government spending from 1994 to 2023. Even if the government had not spent a dollar on immigrants, while somehow still getting all their tax revenue, the US government at all levels would still have run a $20 trillion deficit. Immigrants are not to blame for government deficits. Indeed, they reduced the deficit by about $14.5 trillion."
https://www.cato.org/blog/cato-study-immigrants-reduced-deficits-145-trillion-1994
Prestigious_Load1699 | 24 days ago
Is this combinng both legal immigrants (who pay payroll & income taxes) with illegal immigrants?
madg0at80 | 23 days ago
They both pay taxes.
Prestigious_Load1699 | 23 days ago
Illegal aliens being paid under the table contribute to FICA and federal receipts?
Some pay those taxes, if they use an ITIN or (stolen) SSN.
madg0at80 | 23 days ago
Your comment implied that no undocumented immigrants pay any taxes, which is far from true.
BodybuilderOnly1591 | 24 days ago
Don't care unvetted people who jumped the line to be here, have zero allegiance to the u.s. and waste tremendous resources meant for Americans must go.
FoulestWinner | 24 days ago
Didn't need a study to tell me that. My bank account is significantly smaller than this time last year. No new changes from myself. No major events at home.
Icedidit | 24 days ago
If republicans were actually serious about illegal immigration, they’re not, they would target and heavily fine the business owners hiring illegals.
Illegals come to America because they can get a job. Deporting people is like picking leaves off a tree when your goal is to remove the tree.
Example: A restaurant that made 2 mil last year has 3 partners and hired 10 illegals.
You fine each owner 100k per illegal and fine the business 50% of PY revenue.
That comes out to 1 mil per partner and 1 mil for the business in fines. Jail is a no go because then you don’t get the fines or other tax revenue the business owners would generate.
You the take the 10 illegals and vet them. If they’re not criminals you give them a path to citizenship.
But as you can see republicans just want tik tok clips to placate the base. They don’t actually care about solving issues.
Prestigious_Load1699 | 24 days ago
Are you fining a restaurant with 2 million in annual revenue a total of 4 million dollars?
3 owners fined $100K each for 10 illegal alien workers = $3M.
PLUS a fine of 50% of 2 million revenue = $1M.
That’s straight up bankruptcy.
Icedidit | 24 days ago
Well, don’t commit tax fraud and evasion then….
The 3 mil is a fine directly tied to the individual owners. They each have to pay back 1 mil each.
The math gets even more fun if it was a large corporation like say, Tyson foods. Look up their PY revenue.
bomilk19 | 24 days ago
How do you expect them to go on a path to citizenship if they can’t get jobs because you fined their employers out of business? Do you really think that small restaurant owners and farmers have a million dollars plus 50% of revenue to pay a fine?
Icedidit | 24 days ago
Don’t do the crime if you don’t want the fine.
If they’re got a job their wages would be garnished.
alpacaMyToothbrush | 24 days ago
If you can't run a business without exploiting an underclass, it does not deserve to survive.
wayne099 | 24 days ago
My countries billion people would like to move here for job. They are okay jumping the wall if they can get the citizenship.
Icedidit | 24 days ago
Doubt it
The-Real-Lucifer-666 | 24 days ago
Almost like with less people means the production possibility curve goes down and once it hits a certain point the multiplier effect takes over and the company lays off people first then goes under water and out of business. Don't forget one person's income is another person's pay so deport an immigrant and that is someone losing their pay.
Explanatory_Explains | 24 days ago
This is such a weird situation given the 'land of the free' status. I made a thing: https://youtube.com/shorts/J4HUQ9RiyWc?feature=share
Murky_Toe_4717 | 24 days ago
We know with absolute certainty in fact deporting immigrants regardless of their status is bad for the economy unilaterally. For everyone involved.
DiscoLego | 24 days ago
About a year more of this Insanity will start affecting the US economy. Look for unpicked unpacked food shortages causing prices to go up. Labor intensive Company bankruptcies or shutdowns and relocations to find labor in foreign countries.
Especially look for poorer White people finally willing to work as menial labor.
This is going to be rough as the folks pushing for no immigrants watch the actual self inflicted results of it.
EnrollmentTime | 23 days ago
Ice and the Boder Patrol are hiding.
ICE provides up to $50,000 in signing and retention bonuses, along with loan forgiveness options.
The U.S. Border Patrol offers up to $20,000 in recruitment incentives—half paid after academy graduation and half for choosing a priority location—plus up to $40,000 in retention bonuses over four years.
Aposta-fish | 23 days ago
Someone should do a study from the year 1980 on how many jobs were lost by citizens and filled by illegals and have wages stagnated over the years do to these jobs being filled by illegals?
DingbattheGreat | 23 days ago
The citation appears to say 2026. Did they consider any sort of historical data in the analysis?
If they did not, I could really care less what the article or study states. Every President since Bill Clinton has had a “illegal immigration” stance. In the 21st century, Obama removed more illegals than any other President.
So did we review the trend data since Clinton who demanded we build a southern wall? Or is this another nonserious review of a few months of statistics to target Trump?
Suspicious_Place1270 | 24 days ago
when the economy worked on literal immigration, how do they thing it will help by stopping that?
look at switzerland, we are actually going to vote on some comical initiative to stop immigration and basically cap it at 10 million
an economy thatnis just as well propped up on free movement and jobs that always get filled and taken.
it's a populist right movement to get rid of immigrants for whatever eugenistic reason and assume some superior race position
the USA, after all, existed for forever, right.... and americans are americans, yeah, not mixed europeans, asians, africans, indigenous...
Ok_Dig_9959 | 24 days ago
Trump also created migrant worker visas that employ "seasonal" workers year round. The deportations HAVE dramatically reduced crime in certain low income areas.
Likes_corvids | 23 days ago
Yes, the administration is doing that because their previous actions crippled a lot of farmers, construction companies and other labor-intensive operations. Not that it’s publicizing that, because then they’d have to admit that what they did actively harmed US businesses. https://www.ibtimes.com/trump-admin-quietly-brings-back-migrant-workers-fix-farm-labour-shortage-it-created-3799331
Would truly like to see something supporting the claim of reduced crime due specifically to deportations.
Tall-Control8992 | 24 days ago
Hmm. A different angle to look at it would be net of five less people to compete against when looking for a new job. Not really a bad thing.
That's also six less people worth of demand for housing, food, and fuel/energy. Again, not a bad thing under the current cost of living crisis.
Lanracie | 23 days ago
Maybe, except that illegal immigrants use vast amounts of resources in education and healthcare and social services without contributing back. And of course the real issue is you have a bunch of people in the country that have zero loyalty to the country or desire to be part of the country and they were not vetted even to the point of disease and vaccines. They need to be removed.
madg0at80 | 23 days ago
I'm sure you can cite evidence for all of that.
Lanracie | 23 days ago
Well common sense will tell you that having a huge number of people who dont pay taxes and dont speak the language will put a strain on any system. But sure:
https://www.annemergmed.com/article/S0196-0644%2807%2901444-8/fulltext
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07303084.2025.2451554
https://www.cdc.gov/immigrant-refugee-health/hcp/domestic-guidance/immunizations.html
Can you prove they dont?
hw999 | 24 days ago
The premise of this post is wrong. Stop taking fascists at their word, they are not removing immigrants to help the economy, they are doing it because they are racist. By using a title like this, all you are doing is legitimizing their claim. Stop doing that. Nazis cant be reasoned with, you wont change their mind.
Annoying1978 | 24 days ago
Literally what every credible economist said was going to happen has happened. 1.2 million foreign-born workers have left the labor force, dismantling the structure that supported native-born jobs too.
“Heightened ICE activity is harming the labor market overall, and we find no evidence that it is benefiting U.S.-born workers. If anything, job opportunities for U.S.-born workers are going down as a result.”
MERICA 🇺🇸 🦅🇺🇸
Prestigious_Load1699 | 24 days ago
In construction - an industry heavily subject to illegal labor - total employment is at record highs.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USCONS
What am I missing here? Where are these drastic job losses I keep hearing of?
Annoying1978 | 24 days ago
The level is record high, but the growth rate cratered. In 2024 alone, construction added 150,000 jobs. From January 2025 through March 2026, it’s added only about 66,000, less than HALF the prior year’s pace. The industry isn’t growing, it’s stagnating.
Agriculture and hospitality are absolutely dying.
joeydimaggio | 24 days ago
So we got rid of good jobs and added low wage manual labor? Big win for the anti education crowd
MyMudEye | 24 days ago
So removing the people contributing and consuming is bad for the economy?
And a Gestapo like police state doesn't help?
I feel like we should know this already.
McCool303 | 24 days ago
No shit, there are countless studies that show migrants are a net boom on the economy. And even more studies that show the majority of them return to their home country within 7 years of working in the US. The only people that believe migrants are stealing jobs and ruining the economy are uninformed voters that watch Fox News as their primary source of information. Well at least we still have Moviefone.
Atticus_Taintwater | 24 days ago
I know this is low brow for an economics sub, but how is it that all of these ice guys even stand like douche bags?
Twinkle toes here with imaginary lat syndrome.
Qwishy | 24 days ago
As much as I like bashing em, save that for r/politics.
hulknuts | 24 days ago
I dont think anyone is asking if ICE is helping the economy, rather does having such an enormous amount of illegal and undocumented immigrant hurt the economy.
SnooJokes4916 | 24 days ago
Definitely contributes to the housing crisis
malrexmontresor | 24 days ago
The opposite actually, as they make up ~30% of the construction labor force, mass deportions slow development and/or even force major housing projects to stop due to worker shortages, thereby causing the housing crisis to worsen.
I've cited a different study on this before, but another study on how severe immigration enforcement affects housing affordability is Howard et al. ("How do labor shortages affect residential construction and housing affordability?" 2024), which showed large scale deportions significantly slowed the building of homes and that increased the price of housing by at least 17%.
Quoting the study: "Overall, our results show that housing supply is highly sensitive to labor supply."
Furthermore, the study also showed "Net reductions in labor supply induce a slowdown in building, and as a consequence negative shocks to undocumented labor supply translate into employment declines for US-born workers on both the extensive and intensive margin." (That is, US construction workers were left unemployed as well as construction projects halted due to a lack of labor)
Icedidit | 24 days ago
Corporations buying houses and counties not building is hurting housing.
We need vacancy tax’s and higher taxes on second homes to tackle the massive landlord problem.
Fearless-Feature-830 | 24 days ago
No. You realize renting and buying a house involves showing your pay stubs right?
alpacaMyToothbrush | 24 days ago
Right, cause illegal immigrants are all camping on sidewalks.
Come on.
hulknuts | 24 days ago
lets be honest. All it takes its 1 to buy the house and 30 can live there.
alpacaMyToothbrush | 24 days ago
Yeah, I'm not saying they shouldn't have housing. They should have legal status if we really need them working in the country. Legal status would also let city and county governments know how many folks need services in an area and help us integrate them better into our communities (see places where we've brought in large populations of legal asylum resettlements)
joeydimaggio | 24 days ago
If an undocumented worker is taking “your” house you need to work harder bud. Literally get a job making 50k and have your partner work and you too can buy a house. Even in trump shitholes 50k a year should be easy.
hulknuts | 24 days ago
2 people making $50,000 a year cant afford a house right now. youre nuts.
joeydimaggio | 24 days ago
50k each re read my comment
hulknuts | 23 days ago
I miswrote mine. 2 people making $50,000 each cannot afford a house today. Especially where I love in MD.
joeydimaggio | 23 days ago
Depends on where. Where I live- san jose- no chance in hell but in bmore or something you can
hulknuts | 23 days ago
lol the projects of baltimore? the american dream.
alpacaMyToothbrush | 24 days ago
I popped off without any context, and it's easy to misinterpret that, so let me clarify.
I can say flat out, telling someone who's concerned about this that they 'need to work harder' or 'move to a trump shit hole' is not how you build support for treating illegal immigrants with compassion or reforming our immigration system. As someone who grew up in and escaped a very conservative area, you come off to them as yet another out of touch dem talking down to them. Sometimes you have to chose the thing that gets you closer to your goals over that which feels good.
joeydimaggio | 24 days ago
Why are you using illegal immigrants as a term? You sprinkled in undocumented a few times there too but I think your slip shows your true beliefs.
I run into a lot of transplants to my blue state who think they are “progressive” but are just not at all.
alpacaMyToothbrush | 24 days ago
If you want to accuse me of not being 'a true Scottsman' over using interchangeable words, I can't stop you. My views on the subject are nuanced.
Our current situation is a mess. This is where we wind up when our legal immigration system does not meet demand, we have porous borders and an easily exploited system around asylum. Until those conditions are fixed, I cannot hold it against someone for taking advantage of it.
My concern is less that someone decided not to participate in our broken legal immigration system, than it is that we have 10's of millions of people stuck as an exploited underclass. That causes all sorts of problems, both for them, and US citizens.
joeydimaggio | 24 days ago
“Nuanced” like ICE executing american citizens for protesting?
SnooJokes4916 | 24 days ago
The us has had a below replacement birth rate since the 70's. Immigration, legal and illegal are the cause of the housing shortage. Full stop, the population would be lower with more vacant housing if they weren't here.
Fearless-Feature-830 | 24 days ago
lol no
SnooJokes4916 | 24 days ago
My data is factual, all you have is emotional responses
Fearless-Feature-830 | 24 days ago
No you have vibes. You haven’t given any sources
slo1111 | 24 days ago
You mean like gathering those up with productive jobs trying to raise their American families and providing them lodging, food, and health care?
yumyum2us | 24 days ago
Did you post a article like this under Clinton and Obama? Did you post a article about CNN riding in ICE cars to help report on Deportations. Did you talk about the over 5000 kids separated from parents under Obama to CPS ir the cages under Obama or how Obama criticized Bush for not depirting enough illegals? My guess you didn't nor did do any research.
Likes_corvids | 23 days ago
Please be so kind as to provide supporting evidence. Thanks.
yumyum2us | 23 days ago
https://youtu.be/JUXTqyH54ww?si=hairVqiX04OCv_Pq
This is a documentary from CNN.
Likes_corvids | 23 days ago
Appreciate the link. Will go watch.
ExcellentWinner7542 | 24 days ago
But I like it. We are a land of immigrants and im thankful that my ancestors fled Europe in the early 1900s but we are also a land of law and order where I demand immigrants follow our process.
eduardom98 | 24 days ago
We need to demand that the administration stop reducing ways to come and work here legally.
ExcellentWinner7542 | 24 days ago
Why?
Likes_corvids | 23 days ago
Welp, Trump has fired over 100 immigration judges, so that kinda constricts the legal pathways for immigrants. Also, feel free to search for “immigrants detained at hearings” and there’s numerous times when ICE literally yanked people going into or emerging from hearings, so they’re grabbing people who are already doing everything they’re been told to do, so there’s that.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-immigration-court-judges-fired-b2877616.html
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-fires-more-immigration-judges-including-two-who-blocked-deporting-pro-2026-04-13/
ExcellentWinner7542 | 23 days ago
Welp, too much immigration hurts wages of perfectly capable Americans and creates excessive demand for housing making home ownership difficulty for Americans. Why should we make it harder for average Americans to succeed?
pagerussell | 24 days ago
Every dollar an immigrant makes, even an illegal one, gets spent back into the economy. Of course it would hurt the economy.
The only people who didn't know this are stupid people. The problem is, stupid people vote at very high rates.
alpacaMyToothbrush | 24 days ago
> Every dollar an immigrant makes, even an illegal one, gets spent back into the economy.
As much as I sympathize with their plight and want there to be an easy, paved path for legal immigration, your statement completely ignores remittances. No, not every dollar made here by an illegal goes back into the economy. A good chunk gets sent back home. Nothing particularly wrong with that, mind you, but it's certainly not 1:1
AnalBeadsInSpace | 24 days ago
He's really gotta spell it out for people like you doesn't he. Every dollar gets spent. If he said "world economy" instead of just "economy" would it have been dumbed down enough for you then?
The point is the money goes back into circulation, and that is what grows economies - where as tax breaks for billionaires leads to money being hoarded, and we get things like the stagflation we have now.
alpacaMyToothbrush | 24 days ago
You do realize that no money ever exits the world economy, except maybe the money we spend on space probes right. Deeply ironic you felt you could 'spell it out for me'. It gave me a chuckle, thanks.
madmac527 | 24 days ago
You have 0 clue of how money works
AnalBeadsInSpace | 24 days ago
good thing for us is that they only vote when PT Barnum is running - cause he knows a sucker is born every minute.
Protect-Their-Smiles | 24 days ago
But it was never about ''helping the economy''. The only people that really matter to the regime are doing great (the rich). This was always about putting the fear in colored people, while limiting their rights, as well as their economic and financial power.
Trump's base has an overlap between isolationists / nationalists, Washington warhawks and their proxy rulers, Israeli influencers, good ol' fashioned racists, religious authoritarians and wealthy private interests. And all of them are eating good under Trump.
hawkeyebullz | 24 days ago
What's the unemployment rate at again? Illegal immigrants are drained on the local economy and stretch resources which ultimately robs from the quality and abundance of resources to those in the community. Class sizes increase availability of doctors fire police and the rest are all stretched. This is why legal immigration is championed and illegal immigration is frowned upon