Pretty fucking sad when the United States is considered a tax shelter for oligarchs and billionaires around the world. In no way does this benefit the American people, it is just more incentive to lower taxes and eliminate regulations on the banking industry. It will also further commodify housing and other resources.
Not in this instance. They are just hiding their money from their most persistent adversary. The government tax collectors.
That being said, the U.S. did weaken laws for money laundering by foreign individuals. They apparently understand that if it is going to be done, they might as well do it directly with our financial system.
I saw a small documentary like video that showed how the Chinese are in the center of this type of money laundering. It is a very creative system where they connect Mexican drug cartels operations in Mexico and the US with the wealthy in China. In order to move money out of China and into the US.
There was a case in Singapore a few years back, some Chinese got caught laundering like 2 billion dollars. And this is probably the tip of the iceberg of what goes around.
I very much do not like the Chinese government, but I also don't like tax evasion being facilitated by other countries. That includes the US facilitating tax evasion.
Corruption is part of the Chinese political system. If you do not partake in corruption you are not part of the clique and will miss promotions and connections.
Second, given that everyone is corrupt removing enemies due to corruption becomes an eligible political weapon.
The generals that were purged were also due accused of corruption. Were they, of course. But was it the reason? Obviously not.
In soccer, we always tell people to "watch the ball, not the player's feet." People should do the same with China.
Don't watch the "Feet" - the Party's official commentary on the health of the nation, its direction and future prospertiy. Feet dance around and try to trick you.
Watch the "ball" - where are the Chinese putting their money? The ones who have a choice and the means are not choosing China.
Vancouver is just where a lot of upper middle class Chinese send their kids to school. Cayman Islands is where most Chinese companies you’ve ever heard of are registered, many of which are even state owned.
This has much more to do with China’s structural balance of payments than it does the “health of the nation.” The USA is the best place in the world to park investments. China is one of the worst, even in good times.
Decaying rule of law. Constitutional crisis. Bonds rocketing toward 10% heading for an haircut, and a huge asset bubble. Sure come on in and buy the top.
It’s a dumb take , rich people and corps in every country Including the Us try to hide their wealth abroad to minimize their liabilities.
Chinas gov being effective at taxing their rich is not somehow an indication that Chinas economy is weak or the nation is struggling. It’s also nothing new , rich Chinese have been doing this for decades so not sure why it’s presented as a new thing. If anything with exit controls on wealth it’s less common than it used to be. Taxing the rich certainly hasn’t ever slowed down their economic growth and development in the past.
China also has a specific policy to try to prevent their currency and market from appreciating too much as they want to maintain their export focused economy. If their market and currency become too valuable , their export driven economy is threatened. Other nations and the world bank and world trade org complain about this all the time , Chinas purposeful devaluation. This means China will always be a bad place to invest in stocks or hold cash savings , even if the economy is doing great with fast growth. China would rather that corps invest in increased production and higher wages rather than stock buybacks.
And China also has a specific policy to burst their property bubble and keep housing affordable, as xi said houses are for living , not speculation. That makes holding property a poor investment too. China simply follows a very different economic model from the west and so far it’s worked out very well for them.
Chinas gov focuses more on the wellbeing of their average citizens instead of the wellbeing of its billionaires.
If what you said is true Chinas economy should have collapsed 20 ,30 years ago instead of being the worlds fastest growing economy overall during that time. And if what you said is true then tiny tax heavens like Luxembourg , the Cayman Islands, Ireland , Qatar etc should be the worlds most powerful states. Afterall that’s where the wealthy park all their wealth.
>If what you said is true Chinas economy should have collapsed 20 ,30 years ago instead of being the worlds fastest growing economy overall during that time.
About as many times as people predicting the US collapse
Good analogy 👍 but it’s also funny because wealthy US citizens hide their money in offshore accounts. I guess as long as it’s not your own country, your money is safe.
Which is why its a dumb take. Rich people regardless of which country they reside always spend their resources on finding a way to funnel their stash out of the country to avoid tax.
If the ball is wealth, then its a game of musical chairs as to which country offers a low tax no questions asked policy on any given year
"Hide" is a bit of a misnomer. The US Treasury has eyes into pretty much every bank in the world that wants to deal in dollars. Whatever the reasons for wealthier Americans to park money in offshore accounts it is not hidden from the government. The pertinent question to ask when comparing China is how many foreigners choose to park their money there.
I’m being really pedantic because I get what you’re saying, but your analogy doesn’t work. Ball watching in soccer is a bad thing because players lose positional awareness, react more slowly and end up being caught off guard.
In the context of your post it would be like missing something bigger because you’re fixated on this particular event.
Ok and? I don’t care about Chinese or d1 football and I’m not going to watch it Chinese footballers are one of the worst, and I don’t know if that make you a better player if you call football “soccer” and use those terrible analogies and compare yourself to Chinese football
No you dont understand, ive been taught to hate America and the rest of the west so anything China does is automatically good and successful and all criticism/failures they experience is just the CIA. China would never lie or conceal information trust me bro.
What the replies don’t get is that there are major export controls on capital flight, and the domestic political situation is outright oppressive, with high rates of unemployment. Anyone with assets is trying to put them out of reach if the government, and the US, Australia, EU, Canada are places with rule of law.
But the Chinese don’t realize that the US is a failing state where rule of law is being dismantled, and Trump would let Xi claw back all those assets for baubles. A Trump Tower in the new Taiwan after the take over, a billion in his shitcoin, and a pat on the back.
Bad analogy, this is more like dodgeball. The bottom 90% are not the one putting the money in the US. So while you're so focused on one ball, the top 1% wealthy, you're not seeing all the other balls that's flying at your face, including a wrench.
This was the cope that American politicians kept deferring to until it bit them in the ass, as China overtakes the US. China loves people with your thinking
Every year this past 5 years China faces an exodus of people who have the means to leave for good, more than any other country. Where do they go? Not to chinas allies like North Korea, Iran or Russia - they go to the west or western style places in Asia like Singapore or previously Hong Kong
While we’re shitting on the Chinese and their government, let’s ask the question of why they are allowed to drive inflation in America when they shove money into our system, and buy our assets such as land/real estate?
When their concentrated wealth finds its way into America, where wealth concentration is already a problem of its own, does know one see an issue with this?
Well it’s because America is capitalist so we allow the rich to do whatever they want. China is not capitalist , so they don’t allow their rich , let alone foreign rich, to do whatever they want. They actually hand out harsh life sentences with prison labor and even death penalties to their billionaires.
America is the world’s most capitalistic most individualistic dog eat dog society on the planet so of course we allow the rich to do whatever.
America being an individualistic capitalist strip mall of a country also allows rich people to simply buy citizenship and any random migrants to just walk in so they can provide cheap labor to corps. So even if you made restrictions, the rich Chinese can simply acquire Us citizenship. An anchor baby is very convenient for this. Us immigration laws are far too open and easy to truly ever prevent foreigners from buying up property.
Besides rich Chinese only add a tiny tiny tiny percent to housing inflation. Blackrock buying up all the housing and boomers refusing any new construction in their area has a far bigger impact.
What? China is one of the most voraciously capitalistic countries on the planet.
It has a huge stock market, plenty of private businesses, and a large (and growing) cohort of ultra wealthy individuals, most of whom are not constrained or punished in any way by the central government.
Just because the state plays a heavy hand does not mean the country isn’t deeply capitalistic. A large part of why China has developed so much since 1979 is literally because they embraced capitalism and greatly opened up their market.
As a side note: even on an individual level, China is far more “dog eat dog” than most countries, including the US.
Like, idk if you’ve ever been to China or met a Chinese person, but they treat everything (education, finding a job, buying a house, etc.) like a life-or-death knife fight. It’s culturally acceptable to lie, cheat, and steal your way to a better life, everyone else be damned.
I’ve met a few Chinese people. They’re very competitive as everyone tends to be. A socialist or even communist country doesn’t mean people are inherently non-competitive. Everyone wants the very best.
Well in order to do business with capitalist enterprise it only makes sense to participate in some function. Capitalism is an excellent growth vehicle, especially when the world moves as fast as it does.
Yes, but in China competition like capitalist America is on steroids. You need to read, visit, do business and experience to understand. It’s quite something.
For example, according to a discussion I had with the head (Dr) economist for the EU business community in Shanghai (~4 mths ago) the productivity of the Tesla plant in Shanghai is 6x that of their American plant. That is one of many. The ‘dark manufacturing’ where robots work producing products in the dark have been introduced long before anywhere in the west. I am not pro this type of productivity because it frequently is inhumane, and my point of my comment is to make people aware of this reality.
I don’t understand you. So you’re saying productivity is up because of automation? And the conditions the robots work in are inhumane? Listen, chief, I ain’t completely sold on the complete automation thing, as I don’t know what that means for workers long term, but I don’t think the robots are particularly bothered by their working conditions.
Yes I’ve spend significant time in China and am half Chinese and have had Chinese partners. I’m not actually Chinese culturally so I’m not going to pretend to be as knowledgeable as an actual Chinese citizen but I know a fair bit.
China has a socialist government with a capitalist market controlled and owned by the state, in order to build up wealth and infrastructure . Economically it’s state capitalist, which shares very little in common with western globalist “ free market” style capitalism. In America it would be called communism.
The goal is still socialism by 2045 and even according to western accounts Xi is a committed ideologue who’s purged most of the pro business wing of the CCP. It’s true that for awhile the CCP was turning more and more pro business but Xi has returned the CCP to its socialist roots.
The ultra wealthy in China are absolutely constrained and punished the nanosecond they fall out of line. The reason most aren’t punished is simply because they are too afraid of the consequences of doing so, after some rich individuals where made an example of. Jack Ma, the Chinese Jeff bezos and at one point richest man in china ,literally disappeared off the face of the earth for months. No one knew where he was. And then he comes back like nothing happened praising the government. That’s why the majority of the rich stay in line. Just recently the chairman of evergrande, formerly the 3rd richest man in China, got a life sentence. He avoided a death sentence by cooperating. Had all of his wealth seized too.
To say China dosent punish their rich and their politicians is insane. Theirs 100s of examples. In the Us and the west in general it’s unheard of for a rich person to be treated like a street thug . Even when they get “punished” it’s a minor fine or at best a few months in club fed with tennis courts instead of a life sentence of hard labor or execution with all wealth seized. Sleazy CCP officials and rich businessmen get got all the time.
Yes Chinese people are extremely competitive. And? It’s part of Chinese culture, even during the communist Mao days. Dosent mean Chinas gov and system isn’t socialist. China wouldn’t have achieved what it did under a free market with a western style gov.
Remember that the state retains total control over corporations and the economy . All major corps have CCP officers and major state ownership. Companies exist to serve the CCP and the Chinese people, not the other way around. They can’t operate independently. Much the opposite of the Us, where the government exists to serve the corporations. Where politicians are simply employees of their corporate masters and donors.
You can say China is all cutthroat and even more dog eat dog than the Us, yet you don’t see the sort of extreme poverty in Chinese cities that you do in the Us. You don’t see massive sprawling homeless encampments and tent cities. You don’t see feces and needles on the streets. Chinese society might see you as a loser if you fail but they won’t let you die on the streets like in the Us. Even the poorest have an absolute right to housing and healthcare. In Chinese culture parents would never kick out their sons, it’s unthinkable. It’s barbaric how some American parents will kick out their very own kids , their own blood, at 18. No matter how much you fuck up in China you will never end up on the streets.
Chinas government even has a system for rural and poor households where they assign you a personal ccp officer tasked with increasing your quality of live and living standards. A village of 150 might get over 50 of such cadres , meaning one gov employee is just focused on 3 households instead of thousands. If your live fails to improve , that gov employee will be shunned and loose promotion opportunities and maybe even lose their position . Theirs a personal stake. Vs western welfare systems that are extremely bureaucratic and faceless, where your just some piece of paper in a stack of millions. If you don’t get help and your life doesn’t improve , no one is held accountable. No one in the government personally cares about your life or has any stake in your personal wellbeing.
Chinas culture and system is extremely hard to describe to outsiders and westerners almost always get it wrong . Yes Chinas culture is competitive but at the same time it would be completely unthinkable for the government and society to just let the masses go hungry and die. People are provided for. Homelessness is almost non existent. In America on the other hand it’s extremely easy to imagine the government just letting us perish on the streets once Ai automation hits. Because that’s already the reality for anyone who can’t keep up and falls out.
I wish everyone on this form could read your input to understand the differences between the U.S. capitalism vs state capitalism. This is precisely what I have experienced with my connections to China, and travel. The insights have changed my simplistic world view. Pragmatism is an essential characteristic for true understanding.
“Slackers”? I already explained it in depth didn’t I. In the Us you go homeless and are left to die. In China you will be provided with housing. Hell the state can force your parents or extended family to take you in. It would be exceedingly rare for your family to kick you out anyway in Chinese culture. It’s unthinkable and extremely shameful and dishonorable for any family. Can even lead to criminal and financial consequences from the government.
And In China the town/ province you were born in is ultimately responsible for you for the rest of your life. And local governments are harshly punished for failures by the central gov , so they have a large incentive to not fuck up and end up with a bunch of homelessness or extreme poverty. That’s why they’ll send personal ccp officers to lift you up and improve your life. And If those gov workers don’t do their job right , they get punished.
China is also incredibly cheap which helps, even when factoring in local incomes. In a decent city of 2 million with high speed rail and air connections you can rent an apartment for $700….a year. Heating included. Even a minimum wage worker can pay that with a few weeks of work. Or you could buy the place for a few thousand bucks. A doctor visit is like $5. You can go out for $2. China is experiencing deflation , esp in housing. China is a very easy comfy place to be a slacker, even without benefits.
As far as drug abusers….well nowhere in east Asia looks kindly on drug use. Zero tolerance in most of east Asia as I’m sure you’re aware. Even Japan will make you do years of hard prison labor for a crumb of weed. It’s a legacy of the opium wars. Drugs are seen as a western imperialist tool to destroy Asian society and cause extreme harm and death and poverty. I think it’s perfectly understandable and it’s lead to great results even if it dosent suit western sensitivities. Theres no reason Asia should be forced to follow western white culture. There’s almost zero hard drug use in China and East Asia in general. You really have to go out of your way to find any drugs, so drug abuse is incredibly rare anyway. The really harsh sentences and executions are reserved for traffickers who 100% deserve it. Maybe a sensitive westerner finds it harsh but it leads to far less drug use and far less human suffering and deaths of despair. Much better than seeing 100s of thousands of people in America die from drugs every single year and seeing needles and human suffering out on the streets. It overall leads to far less human suffering, not many have to get punished if drug use is extremely rare in the first place. I don’t think the “freedom” to do drugs is worth the millions of deaths and extreme suffering it causes around the world.
I am not disagreeing with anything you say or criticizing China/Chinese
Explain this to me
if a lot of people slack off (we, humans are lazy by nature) and there are no penalties to slacking, the state says I am going to take care of your housing, food, clothing anyway. Why would anyone bust their balls in an iPhone factory if the state is going to provide the housing, food.
Well …more and more have been slacking off as China has grown wealthier. There is the whole “lying flat” movement. A rather large percent of young people are choosing not to work much or only part time. The labor participation rate of the young in China is actually lower than in the Us, meaning less young people work. Some of this is also due to young graduates refusing blue collar work and holding out for the job of their dreams. It’s easy to hold out when the cost of living is so low and parents are expected to never kick you out.
The truth is the state dosent actually need the labor of much of the population anymore. I don’t think they want to say it but automation is making much of the population redundant. That iPhone factory you mentioned? Well Foxconn has automated 95% of their workforce. China has dozens and 100s of “dark” factories, factories so automated they can shut off the lights. In a Xiaomi EV car factory, they only need 100 employees total, mostly engineers and quality inspectors, with almost zero laborers. A comparable VW plant in Germany producing a similar number of cars needs 5700 laborers plus 100s or thousands of supporting staff and management. That’s the real reason btw that Chinese goods are so cheap today and getting even cheaper. It’s not cheap labor, it’s Automation (Chinese labor isn’t even that cheap anymore). China is also rolling out millions of self driving cars , which will replace millions of jobs.
Also when you can cut so much of your staff and your productivity skyrockets, you can pay the remaining few staff much better , which obv gives a pretty big incentive to work. Wages even for factory workers have gone up ten fold over the last 15 years or so.
Money also stretches very far in China so that’s another incentive to work. You can slack and live a ok but very basic life. Or you can work and buy yourself a nice new high tech Chinese EV. Even nicer Chinese EVs have gotten cheap enough and wages have gone up enough that even a simple blue collar worker can buy one. You could also buy a decent house believe it or not for the same price as that cheap EV.
And of course Chinese society traditionally is quite competitive. There’s still plenty of people who will bust their ass in the hopes of making it . If you’re a slacker you’re going to have a very hard time finding a girlfriend. That’s probably the biggest motivation of all lol. Unfortunately there’s no state provided girlfriend just yet lol. I think it’s pretty universal around the world that most girls won’t date an unemployed guy. Dates aren’t cheap either. If it wasn’t for that then probably a majority of guys would “lie flat” and the economy would collapse.
Remember China is a massive country of 1.4 billion. You could have a 100 million people lying flat and slacking and another billion busting their ass hoping to make it .
And yes I would say today no one is really “forced” anymore to work in a shitty iPhone factory in shitty conditions for shitty pay…and that’s a huge positive and advancement isn’t it? Now employers have to actually raise pay and conditions and do their best to attract workers. It’s one step closer to the ideal socialist society.
I assure you state is not providing housing, food to everyone, and what they do provide is probably not to everyone's taste either. All in all I think China's social safety net is inadequate, and also very uneven (city vs rural). That's why savings rate is so high because people don't think they'll survive on state handouts in their old age.
People are always so opiniated about China but should still try to remember what the topic of this sub is, which is not Comparative Cultural Studies.
"You don’t see massive sprawling homeless encampments and tent cities."
As I understand it no, you don't, you would see those people crammed into a basement somewhere where they would technically have a roof over their head but would still be living in extreme depravation. Maybe I am wrong.
> Like, idk if you’ve ever been to China or met a Chinese person, but they treat everything (education, finding a job, buying a house, etc.) like a life-or-death knife fight. It’s culturally acceptable to lie, cheat, and steal your way to a better life, everyone else be damned.
I'm Chinese and I don't think this way at all. In fact I'm a very socially responsible and empathetic person, almost to a fault.
Ehhh, Chinese stock market is unironically pure unadulterated ass which is why average Chinese don’t really invest in them. To see that for urself just check the SSE composite index in the last 20 years, the growth doesn’t outrun the country’s GDP growth and also sure as hell doesn’t outrun inflation. Shit is uninvestable for a normal person, which is why Chinese mass commonly mistrust stock investment as they see it as gambling, and plenty frown upon people working in finance.
Chinese stock ironically is a lot smaller than what it should be since the Chinese state does very much commit financial oppression.
Yes, this is the actual truth of China as a ‘hyper capitalist’ system. There is increasing scrutiny and is a plan to introduce taxes, but that even if ready is a ways off.
Ya government officials getting life sentences or even the death penalty in China is totally 100% unheard of lol.
You realize Xi has purged like half of the top? He has purged the entire pro business wing of the CCP. Being “purged” often comes with lifelong prison sentences. Just pretty recently the former defense minister and many of the top generals were purged. Even the PLA (armed forces) which used to be somewhat untouchable is constantly getting purged now. Partly because they were untouchable, meaning corruption set in, so now Xis cleaning house. As a high ranking CCP official you’re always just one small misstep away from loosing it all.
When there was a fatal rail accident, the transport/rail minister of China got a heavy prison sentence. Heavy as in commuted death sentence, reduced to life after several years of good behavior. Because he as the head minister was ultimately seen as responsible even if it was his underlings that messed up and not him directly. That would be unthinkable in the west. It’s the opposite in the west , the higher up you are the less responsible you are, if anyone gets punished it’s some low ranking fall guy.
Imagine a cabinet member in the Us , say the secretary of transportation, getting a death sentence over a rail accident. Not even imaginable.
One fuckup and you’re done for life, that’s how it works in China.
Tell me, how often do senators and congressmen end up in “pound me in the ass” prison doing hard labor for years? Has even a single congressmen gone to prison for insider trading? A huge number are doing it. What about business execs? In the Us there’s quite literally zero accountability for the rich and powerful, whether in business or government. We couldn’t even get Trump or anyone under him in prison.
If you argue that, there is no end. Basically you will criticize China no matter what. If they don't tackle corruption, they are corrupt. If they tackle corruption its an internal purge. You guys will always attack China's moves. Just admit you hate China.
I will admit that I dislike one party or one man rule. If China’s government was accountable to the Chinese people rather than the politburo, if China was governed by the rule of law rather than the rule of Xi, there would be less corruption and I would be inclined to believe that the trials were actual trials for corruption rather than show trials of political enemies.
That is just a term created by the Western media to describe the 2nd generation of CCP officials who's parents were involved in the CCP as well. Are you seriously going to pretend that 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th generation of American politicians don't exist? George Bush would absolutely be a princeling. How about the Kennedy's?
They’ve been doing that for years at least since 2010 - how else can they buy homes with cash and take over the San Gabriel Valley and Irvine. Some of these homes are unoccupied and are just for parking their money. It’s so bad in some cities that every one takes their kiddos to trunk or treats instead of those neighborhoods because no one are living in those homes.
How do they get around their currency controls? I have heard of various strategies but, I haven’t heard a serious explanation of the best methods wealthy Chinese use to avoid the governments tight regulation of capital flight.
Underground money shops and currency exchanges, or various forms of investment and acquisition of overseas enterprises—such as Wanda's investment in the naming rights of Metropolitan Stadium, the home ground of Atlético Madrid, even though such losses were relatively large.
The US did weaken money laundering rules compared to the most western nations and it is the most unfriendly to China. So if you do want to escape with your money away from Chinese government control, the US is the only logical place to go to.
No shit, they also pay through the nose for their kids to become US citizens too.
Great system they have there. Sure, they’ve managed to lift hundreds of millions out of poverty but at what cost? Demographics are so screwed, I’ll be amazed if they hold their country together through the instability it causes and the environment around them is absolutely trashed with pollution.
What China did was sell its soul for a quick buck.
I know right they'll only have like 750 million people in 2100. What will they do when every family has a house, when every adult is sought after for jobs in industries with high capital investment and automation? With all those factors wages will be so high how will they grow?!?!
>Environment trashed
Oh man wait until you pick up a history book and see what industrialization looked like in the US or UK
I didn’t say they wouldn’t have a lot of people in the future, what I’m saying is the elderly are going to outnumber the young and working.
By 2050 the dependency ratio will be around 73%.
For every 73 elderly or young (mostly elderly since their fertility rate is under 1), there will be 100 workers. That’s going to be an enormous strain on their society. I imagine a lot of elderly people will just die in China due to lack of available care.
ROFL Chinese average life expectancy is literally the same as the US, the richest country on earth. Your "their old people will just die" hypothesis is absurd.
73% dependency ratio by 2050. One third will be over 65 by 2050.
Just imagine that, your typical family in China is going to be 2 parents, 1 child and 1.33 grandparents.
Compound this with the country’s primary means of investment is speculative housing, housing that will go unused and there are enormous
issues incoming.
ROFL yes, we know, people who been predicting the collapse of China since 2000. You are assuming Chinese arent innovative and pragmatic enough to address and solve their problems.
Gordon Chang literally became a household name in 2001 when he published his infamous book The Coming Collapse of China. The predictions of Chinese collapse havent stopped ever since. Where have you been son? Were you even born in 2001?
Guess youre not good at math. Double digit growth can happen when the baseline is small and low, and is almost impossible to maintain when the Chinese economy is literally now the biggest in the world by PPP. What is the growth of Europe and the US again?
The US has immigration as a lever for a worker shortage.
The pace of the change is gradual, China’s is not. Their entire economy will need to be reworked to support a near doubling of the 65+ dependency ratio. The US economy is built on innovation and healthcare, not low wage manufacturing. The difference is we will have the money to take care of the elderly.
Our fertility rate is 60% higher than China’s. Our population isn’t going to shrink, theirs is going to. Goes back to the whole our retirement savings is real estate in China is going to backfire hard.
China also has the option of immigration... Literally bordered by countries with a population about 3x the population of North America...
>Change is gradual
The US median age is almost exactly the same as China and is slightly higher not counting immigrants...
>Us built on innovation and healthcare not low wage manufacturing
... My dude. US spends literally almost 4x the percent of GDP on healthcare as China lol. 2050 US is expected to be spending 30% of GDP on healthcare vs 9% for China. You have it exactly backwards on who is in danger here.
Also China overtook us in many innovation/science metrics like a decade ago. That said US university system remains uniquely amazing, they could definitely brain drain China if they wanted. Unless...
China doesn’t have the option for immigration because their wages are significantly less than alternatives. Not to mention China is a very xenophobic society.
Advanced economies don’t have a GDP per capita of just $13,000.
Yeah Mexico and China have same GDP per Capita, somehow.
Really makes you think about the outcomes different societies orient themselves towards.
>China doesn't have option for immigration
Oh they definitely do. Chinese wages are very high compared to Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Nepal, or India. Even for rich countries like Japan or Singapore wages in the big cities can be better than worse areas of those countries.
>Xenophobic
I would LOVE to see your quantitative assessment on Chinas xenophobia as compared to other countries. Or is this just your impression based on... I dunno tik Tok or something?
lol the great country of Mexico, where the cartels kill 100’s of politicians each election cycle. Is that who you want to compare China against?
China doesn’t have the option to find high value immigrants because those immigrants could make 3x or 7x as much in Europe or America.
Is China xenophobic? They threw an ethnic minority in their country into reeducation camps. Yeah I’d say anyone who isn’t Han Chinese is viewed as an outsider. Their entire national agenda is about rectifying the century of shame imposed on it by foreign powers.
Edit - incoming comparison to Japanese camps in America
Why would that be the comparison? The US literally has 5x the incarceration rate of China. Literally 20x(!) the percent of black americans are nn prison than uyghurs. The US has literal concentration camps for migrants today, right now.
>High value immigrants make 3-7x in Europe or America
Great idea for those places! Everywhere likes it when the highest paying jobs go to immigrants. Sure hope their authorities agree to let them utilize this opportunity. Lemme check: what are the stances on immigration for LFN and AfD and the GOP again?
My dude average residence size there is less than 700 sqft, literally smaller than Singapore. They have room to grow lol
But you're right, currently they have excess units. Their housing prices have dropped 25% since 2021, can you imagine how awful that would be? They should really look at restricting their housing supply like we do in smart countries.
Excess means more units than people. In such a scenario lower prices don't benefit anyone because the people who could have benefited don't exist. In the mean time it harms the people who own the units as well as the builders, the banks and the local government finances.
Compare to china. US definitely better for rich people and nepo kids. In China the politicians control rich peoples. In US the rich control the politicians. Money politics is widely accepted in US
In China, the role of businessmen is to enrich the country, not interfere with its political system. The authorities have shown that they are willing to ruthlessly crack down on businessmen Sending their children overseas to obtain US citizenship is a potential Plan B for wealthy families seeking a fallback option.
There is also a strong public sentiment across East Asian societies that wealthy businessmen should not interfere in politics. Historically, dating back to imperial China businessmen and their families faced restrictions on entering officialdom.
Clearly the Chinese government should’ve let millions of their countrymen stay in extreme poverty and the government should let themselves be fully co-opted by corporate interests so at least the ultra wealthy will feel comfortable leaving their money there.
Nobody said they should’ve let them stay poor, what I’m saying is the path they chose is going to lead them back to poverty.
73% dependency ratio by 2050, the environment is ruined beyond repair and their economy is only humming along because the government has so far been able to prop up low-wage manufacturing via government loans.
Their rivers are so polluted that entire species of aquatic animals have become extinct in just the last 20 years. You cannot just dig out the heavy metals that are buried in the soil from all those unregulated manufacturing plants being allowed to dump waste. There was a cost to be paid for being the world factory and imo it wasn’t worth it.
That said, they are actually trying to fix some of it. They lead the world in green energy production now.
Theyre not just leading the renewable tech, they have been repairing and planting trees since 1978, and have now planted over 78 billion trees, raising their overall forest from 10% in 1949 to 25% today. Look up the success of Chinas Water Ten Plan, which started in 2015 and raised Good Surface Water from 64% in 2015 to 90% in 2025, highly toxic water from 10% in 2015 to 0.7% in 2025. Feel free to ignore the data and continue your rambling about the Chinese.
Desertification-affected areas are located in the northwest, a region where the industrial base is already weak.Moreover, desertification began hundreds of years ago.
The northwest and northeast is where all the shitty air from the factories blow. It’s why the north part of the country lived a decade less than the south up to a few years ago.
lol he said the line! “At what cost” . Hundreds of millions of lives were saved from extreme poverty and China is a developed nation now…but at what cost???😂 more economical to just let the peasantry die off and remain a third world country!
(In purely economical terms the “cost” is tens of trillions of dollars in gdp gain. Investing in your population pays off believe it or not)
Literally every industrial society is facing this issue. It’s a product of modernist urban culture and living. Japan ,Italy , Spain , Germany etc are just as bad demographically. Taiwan , South Korea and Singapore are far worse off even. America is only staving it off somewhat with mass migration which comes with its own issues and is highly unpopular.
And in reality the future problem will be overpopulation, not underpopulation. Foxconn has already automated away 95% of their workforce at their apple factories. China already has dozens of “dark factories” with nearly zero laborers. In Xiaomis dark EV factory they only have 100 staff in total , most of them engineers, managers and quality inspectors. Almost zero laborers. A comparable VW plant in Germany making a similar number of cars has 5700 laborers and that’s not even counting all the support staff, management etc.
Self driving cars and trucks are being rolled out all over the world. In China there are already millions of fully autonomous cars on the road , so autonomous that the manufacturer takes liability for any car accident. In America alone this will kill off 3 to 4 million jobs. Driving/ trucking is the most common job in around 40 out of 50 states. It will kill off gig work too which 10s of millions just in the Us count on to make ends meet.
White collar work is also already in the process of being massively automated and is highly vulnerable to LLM Ai models.
The need for human labor is disappearing. I find it funny how incapable most people are from imagining a different future from the one we grew up in. You sound like someone crying out about a horse shortage in 1910 when they will soon be made utterly redundant. We will unfortunately have far too many people competing for bread scraps. In the future countries might ban almost all immigration and even restrict people from having kids. It will be bleak across the world but not in the way you picture it.
At least Chinese people will probably get a universal basic income. Us Americans will just starve.
US has one of the best demographic distribution of any western or Asian country on the planet so you including them clearly tells me you don’t know what you’re talking about. US demographics are not “screwed” lmfao it’s a very young country still.
Only due to mass migration of low skilled migrants. In the long term that will backfire as more and more labor gets automated and the need for mass cheap labor is made redundant. In the future the problem will be overpopulation not underpopulation. Millions of driving jobs are already actively being replaced. In Chinese dark EV factories they only need 100 staff at a factory instead of thousands. Ai is advancing at a rapid pace. People crying out about low birthrates today are like people crying out about a horse shortage in 1910. The need for labor keeps decreasing every single year.
thats not the reason people send their kids to the US. Education is probably the biggest part, you see plenty of Chinese sending their kinds to England as well
They said China lifted millions out of poverty but at what cost and imply demographics is a cost. It isnt, all every developed country has that problem
I don't think you're very well read on current and recent past Chinese history. What other countries instituted a one child policy that led to a demographics shift?
They said no shit about the obviousness of Chinese money being deposited into American banks, and that they pay for their children to become citizens. They're implicitly talking about the entirety of the recent past, demographics are just an additional supporting argument for the overall destruction of the Chinese future
no other country had one child policy but they still have demographic problems. It is impossible to say if China didnt institute such policy it wont have demographic problems. What we see is demographic problems being part of modernization
Legally, no. I bet few people realize that they're still not classified as a developed nation by the United Nations. They fight every year to keep themselves from being reclassified, as that would mean they would be regulated as a developed nation rather than a developing nation. They don't want international regulation on their exports any more than they already deal with, and it's a big reason they can get away with so much gray area commerce
SadisticHotdog | 16 hours ago
Pretty fucking sad when the United States is considered a tax shelter for oligarchs and billionaires around the world. In no way does this benefit the American people, it is just more incentive to lower taxes and eliminate regulations on the banking industry. It will also further commodify housing and other resources.
Square_Level4633 | 12 hours ago
It's money laundering.
Fullertonjr | 8 hours ago
Not in this instance. They are just hiding their money from their most persistent adversary. The government tax collectors.
That being said, the U.S. did weaken laws for money laundering by foreign individuals. They apparently understand that if it is going to be done, they might as well do it directly with our financial system.
Square_Level4633 | 5 hours ago
So that's money laundry. Just like in the movie Scarface.
thatsbutters | 7 hours ago
I'm convinced no one on the Internet knows what money laundering actually means.
nigel_pow | 14 hours ago
I saw a small documentary like video that showed how the Chinese are in the center of this type of money laundering. It is a very creative system where they connect Mexican drug cartels operations in Mexico and the US with the wealthy in China. In order to move money out of China and into the US.
aguilasolige | 14 hours ago
There was a case in Singapore a few years back, some Chinese got caught laundering like 2 billion dollars. And this is probably the tip of the iceberg of what goes around.
DryDrunkImperor | 13 hours ago
That’s been the guiding light of US political philosophy for a century though.
Captain-Crayg | 4 hours ago
Doesn’t it increase the value of the dollar though?
kittenTakeover | 18 hours ago
I very much do not like the Chinese government, but I also don't like tax evasion being facilitated by other countries. That includes the US facilitating tax evasion.
urbanacrybaby | 16 hours ago
Practically speaking, the people in the Chinese government are the ones who are moving their money.
Deep-Ad5028 | 16 hours ago
Because there are a lot of corrupted officials everywhere.
The apparent contradiction just means corruption has not become policy or law, yet.
alexos77lo | 10 hours ago
Yeah china should just call it lobby and make it legal
Tian_Lei_Ind_Ltd | 15 hours ago
Corruption is part of the Chinese political system. If you do not partake in corruption you are not part of the clique and will miss promotions and connections.
Second, given that everyone is corrupt removing enemies due to corruption becomes an eligible political weapon.
The generals that were purged were also due accused of corruption. Were they, of course. But was it the reason? Obviously not.
pacman2081 | 11 hours ago
The number of deleted reddit users on this thread is mind boggling. Are people afraid to go on the record with respect to china ? just curious
EDIT: Or is it bots posting ?
BadgersHoneyPot | 20 hours ago
In soccer, we always tell people to "watch the ball, not the player's feet." People should do the same with China.
Don't watch the "Feet" - the Party's official commentary on the health of the nation, its direction and future prospertiy. Feet dance around and try to trick you.
Watch the "ball" - where are the Chinese putting their money? The ones who have a choice and the means are not choosing China.
Watch the ball.
tengo_harambe | 19 hours ago
All balls lead to the Cayman Islands
AlmightyRobert | 17 hours ago
Cayman does CRS (information exchange) along with every developed country in the world except for…the US.
zxc123zxc123 | 11 hours ago
Secret Saudi accounts, Swiss villas, and Caribbean/Hawaiian islands.
Substantial-Part-700 | 15 hours ago
Or in the case of the Chinese, Vancouver.
calmingchaos | 12 hours ago
Gregor Robertson’s ears just perked up.
FlyingTractors | 8 hours ago
Vancouver is just where a lot of upper middle class Chinese send their kids to school. Cayman Islands is where most Chinese companies you’ve ever heard of are registered, many of which are even state owned.
mrjowei | 19 hours ago
The wealthy Chinese has always stashed money and assets in the US and elsewhere.
Gamer_Grease | 19 hours ago
This has much more to do with China’s structural balance of payments than it does the “health of the nation.” The USA is the best place in the world to park investments. China is one of the worst, even in good times.
Relative_Average758 | 18 hours ago
Decaying rule of law. Constitutional crisis. Bonds rocketing toward 10% heading for an haircut, and a huge asset bubble. Sure come on in and buy the top.
We need exit liquidity.
BadgersHoneyPot | 9 hours ago
The Chinese won't like you describing their country this way.
Oh, just kidding:
Legal-Chocolate8482 | 19 hours ago
It’s a dumb take , rich people and corps in every country Including the Us try to hide their wealth abroad to minimize their liabilities.
Chinas gov being effective at taxing their rich is not somehow an indication that Chinas economy is weak or the nation is struggling. It’s also nothing new , rich Chinese have been doing this for decades so not sure why it’s presented as a new thing. If anything with exit controls on wealth it’s less common than it used to be. Taxing the rich certainly hasn’t ever slowed down their economic growth and development in the past.
China also has a specific policy to try to prevent their currency and market from appreciating too much as they want to maintain their export focused economy. If their market and currency become too valuable , their export driven economy is threatened. Other nations and the world bank and world trade org complain about this all the time , Chinas purposeful devaluation. This means China will always be a bad place to invest in stocks or hold cash savings , even if the economy is doing great with fast growth. China would rather that corps invest in increased production and higher wages rather than stock buybacks.
And China also has a specific policy to burst their property bubble and keep housing affordable, as xi said houses are for living , not speculation. That makes holding property a poor investment too. China simply follows a very different economic model from the west and so far it’s worked out very well for them.
Chinas gov focuses more on the wellbeing of their average citizens instead of the wellbeing of its billionaires.
If what you said is true Chinas economy should have collapsed 20 ,30 years ago instead of being the worlds fastest growing economy overall during that time. And if what you said is true then tiny tax heavens like Luxembourg , the Cayman Islands, Ireland , Qatar etc should be the worlds most powerful states. Afterall that’s where the wealthy park all their wealth.
smallisaac | 17 hours ago
Great comment. Thank goodness someone isn’t just parroting fearmongering back.
SpecialBeginning6430 | 16 hours ago
>If what you said is true Chinas economy should have collapsed 20 ,30 years ago instead of being the worlds fastest growing economy overall during that time.
About as many times as people predicting the US collapse
Investigatodoc1984 | 20 hours ago
Good analogy 👍 but it’s also funny because wealthy US citizens hide their money in offshore accounts. I guess as long as it’s not your own country, your money is safe.
ReturnoftheSpack | 19 hours ago
Which is why its a dumb take. Rich people regardless of which country they reside always spend their resources on finding a way to funnel their stash out of the country to avoid tax.
If the ball is wealth, then its a game of musical chairs as to which country offers a low tax no questions asked policy on any given year
devliegende | 18 hours ago
"Hide" is a bit of a misnomer. The US Treasury has eyes into pretty much every bank in the world that wants to deal in dollars. Whatever the reasons for wealthier Americans to park money in offshore accounts it is not hidden from the government. The pertinent question to ask when comparing China is how many foreigners choose to park their money there.
pacman2081 | 16 hours ago
Where do Bill Gates, Warren Buffett hide their money
Falling_Up_The_Movie | 14 hours ago
Cayman islands, luxembourg, switzerland
AtomWorker | 19 hours ago
I’m being really pedantic because I get what you’re saying, but your analogy doesn’t work. Ball watching in soccer is a bad thing because players lose positional awareness, react more slowly and end up being caught off guard.
In the context of your post it would be like missing something bigger because you’re fixated on this particular event.
--TheCity-- | 19 hours ago
Agreed. Was thinking if it was worth it to type something similar out.
FlashyHeight9323 | 18 hours ago
Watch the waist.
Peripatetictyl | 18 hours ago
Watch the soul
Exius73 | 17 hours ago
This. Its really watch the hips
Bozhark | 14 hours ago
Literal hips don’t lie
FlyingTractors | 18 hours ago
It says offshore assets...they were not in China to begin with. By your analogy, offshore financial centers are cooked lol.
kongKing_11 | 19 hours ago
Rich people are different from middle class though. Watching Barcelona play and demand high schoolers to play on the same level is unrealistic.
alexos77lo | 10 hours ago
Great comment from someone that doesn’t watch football and don’t know about china
BadgersHoneyPot | 9 hours ago
Comments like this from the Xinhua shills lets me know I'm close to the mark.
alexos77lo | 9 hours ago
The worst part of your comment was the one about football don’t even know why you try to force that analogy
BadgersHoneyPot | 9 hours ago
I played D1 soccer in the US so it's easy for me to draw that comparison.
alexos77lo | 8 hours ago
“Soccer” “USA” yeah…
No more questions your honor.
BadgersHoneyPot | 8 hours ago
Lemme tell you friend: A D1 player in the US might as well be the best player in China.
alexos77lo | 6 hours ago
Ok and? I don’t care about Chinese or d1 football and I’m not going to watch it Chinese footballers are one of the worst, and I don’t know if that make you a better player if you call football “soccer” and use those terrible analogies and compare yourself to Chinese football
BadgersHoneyPot | 6 hours ago
>Upon the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that, upon other fields, on other days, will bear the fruits of victory.
-Douglas MacArthur
Certain_Media_7361 | 18 hours ago
No you dont understand, ive been taught to hate America and the rest of the west so anything China does is automatically good and successful and all criticism/failures they experience is just the CIA. China would never lie or conceal information trust me bro.
Relative_Average758 | 18 hours ago
What the replies don’t get is that there are major export controls on capital flight, and the domestic political situation is outright oppressive, with high rates of unemployment. Anyone with assets is trying to put them out of reach if the government, and the US, Australia, EU, Canada are places with rule of law.
But the Chinese don’t realize that the US is a failing state where rule of law is being dismantled, and Trump would let Xi claw back all those assets for baubles. A Trump Tower in the new Taiwan after the take over, a billion in his shitcoin, and a pat on the back.
pacman2081 | 16 hours ago
tell that to all those Chinese who buy homes in USA and leave it vacant
khoawala | 18 hours ago
Bad analogy, this is more like dodgeball. The bottom 90% are not the one putting the money in the US. So while you're so focused on one ball, the top 1% wealthy, you're not seeing all the other balls that's flying at your face, including a wrench.
PrudentVariation3716 | 6 hours ago
This was the cope that American politicians kept deferring to until it bit them in the ass, as China overtakes the US. China loves people with your thinking
Elizabeth-WildFox886 | 19 hours ago
Every year this past 5 years China faces an exodus of people who have the means to leave for good, more than any other country. Where do they go? Not to chinas allies like North Korea, Iran or Russia - they go to the west or western style places in Asia like Singapore or previously Hong Kong
Falling_Up_The_Movie | 14 hours ago
I wonder why wealthy people would go where the government exclusively caters to the rich
No_Departure_1878 | 19 hours ago
Aren't they selling American debt?
082426grateful | 18 hours ago
While we’re shitting on the Chinese and their government, let’s ask the question of why they are allowed to drive inflation in America when they shove money into our system, and buy our assets such as land/real estate?
When their concentrated wealth finds its way into America, where wealth concentration is already a problem of its own, does know one see an issue with this?
BananaParadise | 18 hours ago
That money they’re holding were printed by the us govt in the first place
082426grateful | 18 hours ago
Likely, yeah. It definitely was gained from the strategic benefit China has with its often-tense relationship with America.
pacman2081 | 16 hours ago
Tell me why you do purchase Chinese products
082426grateful | 14 hours ago
There are no other options, affordable or not. China makes essentially everything now that is a consumer good, and barely anyone else on earth does.
sicklyslick | 12 hours ago
Perhaps you should ask your capitalist overlords why they moved manufacturing to China.
infinibee2 | 5 hours ago
that's not true. there's pretty much domestic versions of everything, you just gotta be prepared to pay 10-100x more.
Legal-Chocolate8482 | 18 hours ago
Well it’s because America is capitalist so we allow the rich to do whatever they want. China is not capitalist , so they don’t allow their rich , let alone foreign rich, to do whatever they want. They actually hand out harsh life sentences with prison labor and even death penalties to their billionaires.
America is the world’s most capitalistic most individualistic dog eat dog society on the planet so of course we allow the rich to do whatever.
America being an individualistic capitalist strip mall of a country also allows rich people to simply buy citizenship and any random migrants to just walk in so they can provide cheap labor to corps. So even if you made restrictions, the rich Chinese can simply acquire Us citizenship. An anchor baby is very convenient for this. Us immigration laws are far too open and easy to truly ever prevent foreigners from buying up property.
Besides rich Chinese only add a tiny tiny tiny percent to housing inflation. Blackrock buying up all the housing and boomers refusing any new construction in their area has a far bigger impact.
DigitalApeManKing | 18 hours ago
What? China is one of the most voraciously capitalistic countries on the planet.
It has a huge stock market, plenty of private businesses, and a large (and growing) cohort of ultra wealthy individuals, most of whom are not constrained or punished in any way by the central government.
Just because the state plays a heavy hand does not mean the country isn’t deeply capitalistic. A large part of why China has developed so much since 1979 is literally because they embraced capitalism and greatly opened up their market.
As a side note: even on an individual level, China is far more “dog eat dog” than most countries, including the US.
Like, idk if you’ve ever been to China or met a Chinese person, but they treat everything (education, finding a job, buying a house, etc.) like a life-or-death knife fight. It’s culturally acceptable to lie, cheat, and steal your way to a better life, everyone else be damned.
MittenstheGlove | 17 hours ago
I’ve met a few Chinese people. They’re very competitive as everyone tends to be. A socialist or even communist country doesn’t mean people are inherently non-competitive. Everyone wants the very best.
xxzephyrxx | 17 hours ago
Reminder that adopting capitalist approach turned the country around. That's what Deng learned from Lee Kuan Yew.
laosurv3y | 16 hours ago
Markets and capitalism are related but not the same.
MittenstheGlove | 17 hours ago
Well in order to do business with capitalist enterprise it only makes sense to participate in some function. Capitalism is an excellent growth vehicle, especially when the world moves as fast as it does.
WowBastardSia | 11 hours ago
> That's what Deng learned from Lee Kuan Yew.
Luckily he didn't learn about Lee's obsession with eugenics
Memory_Less | 17 hours ago
Yes, but in China competition like capitalist America is on steroids. You need to read, visit, do business and experience to understand. It’s quite something.
MittenstheGlove | 17 hours ago
You mean because of the ever expanding material economy and gigantic population?
Memory_Less | 10 hours ago
For example, according to a discussion I had with the head (Dr) economist for the EU business community in Shanghai (~4 mths ago) the productivity of the Tesla plant in Shanghai is 6x that of their American plant. That is one of many. The ‘dark manufacturing’ where robots work producing products in the dark have been introduced long before anywhere in the west. I am not pro this type of productivity because it frequently is inhumane, and my point of my comment is to make people aware of this reality.
MittenstheGlove | 9 hours ago
I don’t understand you. So you’re saying productivity is up because of automation? And the conditions the robots work in are inhumane? Listen, chief, I ain’t completely sold on the complete automation thing, as I don’t know what that means for workers long term, but I don’t think the robots are particularly bothered by their working conditions.
Decent_Fuel9804 | 6 hours ago
Hey Sol!
MittenstheGlove | 5 hours ago
Hey what— Whomst?!
Legal-Chocolate8482 | 16 hours ago
Yes I’ve spend significant time in China and am half Chinese and have had Chinese partners. I’m not actually Chinese culturally so I’m not going to pretend to be as knowledgeable as an actual Chinese citizen but I know a fair bit.
China has a socialist government with a capitalist market controlled and owned by the state, in order to build up wealth and infrastructure . Economically it’s state capitalist, which shares very little in common with western globalist “ free market” style capitalism. In America it would be called communism.
The goal is still socialism by 2045 and even according to western accounts Xi is a committed ideologue who’s purged most of the pro business wing of the CCP. It’s true that for awhile the CCP was turning more and more pro business but Xi has returned the CCP to its socialist roots.
The ultra wealthy in China are absolutely constrained and punished the nanosecond they fall out of line. The reason most aren’t punished is simply because they are too afraid of the consequences of doing so, after some rich individuals where made an example of. Jack Ma, the Chinese Jeff bezos and at one point richest man in china ,literally disappeared off the face of the earth for months. No one knew where he was. And then he comes back like nothing happened praising the government. That’s why the majority of the rich stay in line. Just recently the chairman of evergrande, formerly the 3rd richest man in China, got a life sentence. He avoided a death sentence by cooperating. Had all of his wealth seized too.
To say China dosent punish their rich and their politicians is insane. Theirs 100s of examples. In the Us and the west in general it’s unheard of for a rich person to be treated like a street thug . Even when they get “punished” it’s a minor fine or at best a few months in club fed with tennis courts instead of a life sentence of hard labor or execution with all wealth seized. Sleazy CCP officials and rich businessmen get got all the time.
Yes Chinese people are extremely competitive. And? It’s part of Chinese culture, even during the communist Mao days. Dosent mean Chinas gov and system isn’t socialist. China wouldn’t have achieved what it did under a free market with a western style gov.
Remember that the state retains total control over corporations and the economy . All major corps have CCP officers and major state ownership. Companies exist to serve the CCP and the Chinese people, not the other way around. They can’t operate independently. Much the opposite of the Us, where the government exists to serve the corporations. Where politicians are simply employees of their corporate masters and donors.
You can say China is all cutthroat and even more dog eat dog than the Us, yet you don’t see the sort of extreme poverty in Chinese cities that you do in the Us. You don’t see massive sprawling homeless encampments and tent cities. You don’t see feces and needles on the streets. Chinese society might see you as a loser if you fail but they won’t let you die on the streets like in the Us. Even the poorest have an absolute right to housing and healthcare. In Chinese culture parents would never kick out their sons, it’s unthinkable. It’s barbaric how some American parents will kick out their very own kids , their own blood, at 18. No matter how much you fuck up in China you will never end up on the streets.
Chinas government even has a system for rural and poor households where they assign you a personal ccp officer tasked with increasing your quality of live and living standards. A village of 150 might get over 50 of such cadres , meaning one gov employee is just focused on 3 households instead of thousands. If your live fails to improve , that gov employee will be shunned and loose promotion opportunities and maybe even lose their position . Theirs a personal stake. Vs western welfare systems that are extremely bureaucratic and faceless, where your just some piece of paper in a stack of millions. If you don’t get help and your life doesn’t improve , no one is held accountable. No one in the government personally cares about your life or has any stake in your personal wellbeing.
Chinas culture and system is extremely hard to describe to outsiders and westerners almost always get it wrong . Yes Chinas culture is competitive but at the same time it would be completely unthinkable for the government and society to just let the masses go hungry and die. People are provided for. Homelessness is almost non existent. In America on the other hand it’s extremely easy to imagine the government just letting us perish on the streets once Ai automation hits. Because that’s already the reality for anyone who can’t keep up and falls out.
Shokeybutsi | 11 hours ago
The US should adopt some of China’s systems for punishing corrupt wealthy people
Memory_Less | 5 hours ago
I wish everyone on this form could read your input to understand the differences between the U.S. capitalism vs state capitalism. This is precisely what I have experienced with my connections to China, and travel. The insights have changed my simplistic world view. Pragmatism is an essential characteristic for true understanding.
pacman2081 | 16 hours ago
tell me what happens to drug abusers and slackers
Legal-Chocolate8482 | 15 hours ago
“Slackers”? I already explained it in depth didn’t I. In the Us you go homeless and are left to die. In China you will be provided with housing. Hell the state can force your parents or extended family to take you in. It would be exceedingly rare for your family to kick you out anyway in Chinese culture. It’s unthinkable and extremely shameful and dishonorable for any family. Can even lead to criminal and financial consequences from the government.
And In China the town/ province you were born in is ultimately responsible for you for the rest of your life. And local governments are harshly punished for failures by the central gov , so they have a large incentive to not fuck up and end up with a bunch of homelessness or extreme poverty. That’s why they’ll send personal ccp officers to lift you up and improve your life. And If those gov workers don’t do their job right , they get punished.
China is also incredibly cheap which helps, even when factoring in local incomes. In a decent city of 2 million with high speed rail and air connections you can rent an apartment for $700….a year. Heating included. Even a minimum wage worker can pay that with a few weeks of work. Or you could buy the place for a few thousand bucks. A doctor visit is like $5. You can go out for $2. China is experiencing deflation , esp in housing. China is a very easy comfy place to be a slacker, even without benefits.
As far as drug abusers….well nowhere in east Asia looks kindly on drug use. Zero tolerance in most of east Asia as I’m sure you’re aware. Even Japan will make you do years of hard prison labor for a crumb of weed. It’s a legacy of the opium wars. Drugs are seen as a western imperialist tool to destroy Asian society and cause extreme harm and death and poverty. I think it’s perfectly understandable and it’s lead to great results even if it dosent suit western sensitivities. Theres no reason Asia should be forced to follow western white culture. There’s almost zero hard drug use in China and East Asia in general. You really have to go out of your way to find any drugs, so drug abuse is incredibly rare anyway. The really harsh sentences and executions are reserved for traffickers who 100% deserve it. Maybe a sensitive westerner finds it harsh but it leads to far less drug use and far less human suffering and deaths of despair. Much better than seeing 100s of thousands of people in America die from drugs every single year and seeing needles and human suffering out on the streets. It overall leads to far less human suffering, not many have to get punished if drug use is extremely rare in the first place. I don’t think the “freedom” to do drugs is worth the millions of deaths and extreme suffering it causes around the world.
pacman2081 | 15 hours ago
I am not disagreeing with anything you say or criticizing China/Chinese
Explain this to me
if a lot of people slack off (we, humans are lazy by nature) and there are no penalties to slacking, the state says I am going to take care of your housing, food, clothing anyway. Why would anyone bust their balls in an iPhone factory if the state is going to provide the housing, food.
Something does not add up
Legal-Chocolate8482 | 15 hours ago
Well …more and more have been slacking off as China has grown wealthier. There is the whole “lying flat” movement. A rather large percent of young people are choosing not to work much or only part time. The labor participation rate of the young in China is actually lower than in the Us, meaning less young people work. Some of this is also due to young graduates refusing blue collar work and holding out for the job of their dreams. It’s easy to hold out when the cost of living is so low and parents are expected to never kick you out.
The truth is the state dosent actually need the labor of much of the population anymore. I don’t think they want to say it but automation is making much of the population redundant. That iPhone factory you mentioned? Well Foxconn has automated 95% of their workforce. China has dozens and 100s of “dark” factories, factories so automated they can shut off the lights. In a Xiaomi EV car factory, they only need 100 employees total, mostly engineers and quality inspectors, with almost zero laborers. A comparable VW plant in Germany producing a similar number of cars needs 5700 laborers plus 100s or thousands of supporting staff and management. That’s the real reason btw that Chinese goods are so cheap today and getting even cheaper. It’s not cheap labor, it’s Automation (Chinese labor isn’t even that cheap anymore). China is also rolling out millions of self driving cars , which will replace millions of jobs.
Also when you can cut so much of your staff and your productivity skyrockets, you can pay the remaining few staff much better , which obv gives a pretty big incentive to work. Wages even for factory workers have gone up ten fold over the last 15 years or so.
Money also stretches very far in China so that’s another incentive to work. You can slack and live a ok but very basic life. Or you can work and buy yourself a nice new high tech Chinese EV. Even nicer Chinese EVs have gotten cheap enough and wages have gone up enough that even a simple blue collar worker can buy one. You could also buy a decent house believe it or not for the same price as that cheap EV.
And of course Chinese society traditionally is quite competitive. There’s still plenty of people who will bust their ass in the hopes of making it . If you’re a slacker you’re going to have a very hard time finding a girlfriend. That’s probably the biggest motivation of all lol. Unfortunately there’s no state provided girlfriend just yet lol. I think it’s pretty universal around the world that most girls won’t date an unemployed guy. Dates aren’t cheap either. If it wasn’t for that then probably a majority of guys would “lie flat” and the economy would collapse.
Remember China is a massive country of 1.4 billion. You could have a 100 million people lying flat and slacking and another billion busting their ass hoping to make it .
And yes I would say today no one is really “forced” anymore to work in a shitty iPhone factory in shitty conditions for shitty pay…and that’s a huge positive and advancement isn’t it? Now employers have to actually raise pay and conditions and do their best to attract workers. It’s one step closer to the ideal socialist society.
Moral-Relativity | 11 hours ago
I assure you state is not providing housing, food to everyone, and what they do provide is probably not to everyone's taste either. All in all I think China's social safety net is inadequate, and also very uneven (city vs rural). That's why savings rate is so high because people don't think they'll survive on state handouts in their old age.
People are always so opiniated about China but should still try to remember what the topic of this sub is, which is not Comparative Cultural Studies.
AnxiousVariety386 | 12 hours ago
"You don’t see massive sprawling homeless encampments and tent cities."
As I understand it no, you don't, you would see those people crammed into a basement somewhere where they would technically have a roof over their head but would still be living in extreme depravation. Maybe I am wrong.
WowBastardSia | 11 hours ago
> Like, idk if you’ve ever been to China or met a Chinese person, but they treat everything (education, finding a job, buying a house, etc.) like a life-or-death knife fight. It’s culturally acceptable to lie, cheat, and steal your way to a better life, everyone else be damned.
I'm Chinese and I don't think this way at all. In fact I'm a very socially responsible and empathetic person, almost to a fault.
I think you might be wrong here.
pepehandreee | 17 hours ago
Ehhh, Chinese stock market is unironically pure unadulterated ass which is why average Chinese don’t really invest in them. To see that for urself just check the SSE composite index in the last 20 years, the growth doesn’t outrun the country’s GDP growth and also sure as hell doesn’t outrun inflation. Shit is uninvestable for a normal person, which is why Chinese mass commonly mistrust stock investment as they see it as gambling, and plenty frown upon people working in finance.
Chinese stock ironically is a lot smaller than what it should be since the Chinese state does very much commit financial oppression.
Memory_Less | 17 hours ago
Yes, this is the actual truth of China as a ‘hyper capitalist’ system. There is increasing scrutiny and is a plan to introduce taxes, but that even if ready is a ways off.
v12vanquish | 14 hours ago
This dude has never heard of the word princelings.
China lets its rich do whatever they want, their rich are just government officials
Legal-Chocolate8482 | 14 hours ago
Ya government officials getting life sentences or even the death penalty in China is totally 100% unheard of lol.
You realize Xi has purged like half of the top? He has purged the entire pro business wing of the CCP. Being “purged” often comes with lifelong prison sentences. Just pretty recently the former defense minister and many of the top generals were purged. Even the PLA (armed forces) which used to be somewhat untouchable is constantly getting purged now. Partly because they were untouchable, meaning corruption set in, so now Xis cleaning house. As a high ranking CCP official you’re always just one small misstep away from loosing it all.
When there was a fatal rail accident, the transport/rail minister of China got a heavy prison sentence. Heavy as in commuted death sentence, reduced to life after several years of good behavior. Because he as the head minister was ultimately seen as responsible even if it was his underlings that messed up and not him directly. That would be unthinkable in the west. It’s the opposite in the west , the higher up you are the less responsible you are, if anyone gets punished it’s some low ranking fall guy.
Imagine a cabinet member in the Us , say the secretary of transportation, getting a death sentence over a rail accident. Not even imaginable.
One fuckup and you’re done for life, that’s how it works in China.
Tell me, how often do senators and congressmen end up in “pound me in the ass” prison doing hard labor for years? Has even a single congressmen gone to prison for insider trading? A huge number are doing it. What about business execs? In the Us there’s quite literally zero accountability for the rich and powerful, whether in business or government. We couldn’t even get Trump or anyone under him in prison.
devliegende | 12 hours ago
The question is whether the sentences were for the corruption or for the political benefit of the guy above them.
los_his | 9 hours ago
If you argue that, there is no end. Basically you will criticize China no matter what. If they don't tackle corruption, they are corrupt. If they tackle corruption its an internal purge. You guys will always attack China's moves. Just admit you hate China.
devliegende | 7 hours ago
I will admit that I dislike one party or one man rule. If China’s government was accountable to the Chinese people rather than the politburo, if China was governed by the rule of law rather than the rule of Xi, there would be less corruption and I would be inclined to believe that the trials were actual trials for corruption rather than show trials of political enemies.
los_his | 9 hours ago
That is just a term created by the Western media to describe the 2nd generation of CCP officials who's parents were involved in the CCP as well. Are you seriously going to pretend that 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th generation of American politicians don't exist? George Bush would absolutely be a princeling. How about the Kennedy's?
xxzephyrxx | 17 hours ago
Did you forget what Deng learned from Singapore?
guymoron | 12 hours ago
Are you serious questioning why the US government isn’t looking out for its people? It’s because, they just don’t…
Fun-Astronomer5311 | 10 hours ago
Because there are many greedy leachers in USA.
pickle9977 | 4 hours ago
This is a very important question , it’s quite possible the problem is the goal.
Miao_Yin8964 | 16 hours ago
*Buying large swaths of real estate adjacent to military bases
082426grateful | 14 hours ago
And former farmland. And coastal real estate, and some prime commercial properties as well.
Previous-Space-7056 | 8 hours ago
Because thats racists..
Why do we allow wealthy British ? Canadians ? Russians etc buy assets in the US …
SuperSaiyanBlue | 2 hours ago
They’ve been doing that for years at least since 2010 - how else can they buy homes with cash and take over the San Gabriel Valley and Irvine. Some of these homes are unoccupied and are just for parking their money. It’s so bad in some cities that every one takes their kiddos to trunk or treats instead of those neighborhoods because no one are living in those homes.
WholePut1414 | 12 hours ago
How do they get around their currency controls? I have heard of various strategies but, I haven’t heard a serious explanation of the best methods wealthy Chinese use to avoid the governments tight regulation of capital flight.
Glass_Valuable_8528 | 5 hours ago
Underground money shops and currency exchanges, or various forms of investment and acquisition of overseas enterprises—such as Wanda's investment in the naming rights of Metropolitan Stadium, the home ground of Atlético Madrid, even though such losses were relatively large.
Leaper229 | 4 hours ago
If a strategy becomes common knowledge it will stop working very soon
Reasonable-Wafer-237 | an hour ago
Nice try, China
PrinnyFriend | 3 hours ago
The US did weaken money laundering rules compared to the most western nations and it is the most unfriendly to China. So if you do want to escape with your money away from Chinese government control, the US is the only logical place to go to.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 19 hours ago
No shit, they also pay through the nose for their kids to become US citizens too.
Great system they have there. Sure, they’ve managed to lift hundreds of millions out of poverty but at what cost? Demographics are so screwed, I’ll be amazed if they hold their country together through the instability it causes and the environment around them is absolutely trashed with pollution.
What China did was sell its soul for a quick buck.
Iron-Fist | 19 hours ago
>At what cost
They did the meme! Was this intentional?
>demographics are so screwed
I know right they'll only have like 750 million people in 2100. What will they do when every family has a house, when every adult is sought after for jobs in industries with high capital investment and automation? With all those factors wages will be so high how will they grow?!?!
>Environment trashed
Oh man wait until you pick up a history book and see what industrialization looked like in the US or UK
MeetAndYeet | 19 hours ago
Thats exactly what I was thinking
WalterWoodiaz | 18 hours ago
Half of those 750 million would be above retirement age, demographics like that are horrible
Falling_Up_The_Movie | 14 hours ago
China making more restrictive environmental laws while the US dismantles all environmental regulations
Open_Pollution_8038 | 18 hours ago
I didn’t say they wouldn’t have a lot of people in the future, what I’m saying is the elderly are going to outnumber the young and working.
By 2050 the dependency ratio will be around 73%.
For every 73 elderly or young (mostly elderly since their fertility rate is under 1), there will be 100 workers. That’s going to be an enormous strain on their society. I imagine a lot of elderly people will just die in China due to lack of available care.
csman86 | 18 hours ago
ROFL Chinese average life expectancy is literally the same as the US, the richest country on earth. Your "their old people will just die" hypothesis is absurd.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 18 hours ago
73% dependency ratio by 2050. One third will be over 65 by 2050.
Just imagine that, your typical family in China is going to be 2 parents, 1 child and 1.33 grandparents.
Compound this with the country’s primary means of investment is speculative housing, housing that will go unused and there are enormous issues incoming.
csman86 | 18 hours ago
ROFL yes, we know, people who been predicting the collapse of China since 2000. You are assuming Chinese arent innovative and pragmatic enough to address and solve their problems.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 18 hours ago
Nobody predicted China’s collapse in 2000, but they accurately predicting the demographic crisis that is unfolding.
China is walking right into the middle income trap.
csman86 | 17 hours ago
Gordon Chang literally became a household name in 2001 when he published his infamous book The Coming Collapse of China. The predictions of Chinese collapse havent stopped ever since. Where have you been son? Were you even born in 2001?
Open_Pollution_8038 | 17 hours ago
China’s growth is already middling at the mid-4% and dropping each year.
What happens to the society contract that the CCP materially improves the lives of everyone in exchange for total political domination?
csman86 | 17 hours ago
Guess youre not good at math. Double digit growth can happen when the baseline is small and low, and is almost impossible to maintain when the Chinese economy is literally now the biggest in the world by PPP. What is the growth of Europe and the US again?
Iron-Fist | 18 hours ago
That's going to be almost exactly the same dependency ratio in the US, btw.
>Will just die
I also enjoy just saying things sometimes lol
Open_Pollution_8038 | 18 hours ago
3 key differences
The US has immigration as a lever for a worker shortage.
The pace of the change is gradual, China’s is not. Their entire economy will need to be reworked to support a near doubling of the 65+ dependency ratio. The US economy is built on innovation and healthcare, not low wage manufacturing. The difference is we will have the money to take care of the elderly.
Our fertility rate is 60% higher than China’s. Our population isn’t going to shrink, theirs is going to. Goes back to the whole our retirement savings is real estate in China is going to backfire hard.
Iron-Fist | 17 hours ago
>us has immigration
China also has the option of immigration... Literally bordered by countries with a population about 3x the population of North America...
>Change is gradual
The US median age is almost exactly the same as China and is slightly higher not counting immigrants...
>Us built on innovation and healthcare not low wage manufacturing
... My dude. US spends literally almost 4x the percent of GDP on healthcare as China lol. 2050 US is expected to be spending 30% of GDP on healthcare vs 9% for China. You have it exactly backwards on who is in danger here.
Also China overtook us in many innovation/science metrics like a decade ago. That said US university system remains uniquely amazing, they could definitely brain drain China if they wanted. Unless...
Also China isn't low wage manufacturing, the economy is very diverse. China is now the second most automated manufacturing power in the world, leap frogging US and Germany. Low wage is all going to Vietnam and Laos.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 16 hours ago
China doesn’t have the option for immigration because their wages are significantly less than alternatives. Not to mention China is a very xenophobic society.
Advanced economies don’t have a GDP per capita of just $13,000.
Iron-Fist | 16 hours ago
Yeah Mexico and China have same GDP per Capita, somehow.
Really makes you think about the outcomes different societies orient themselves towards.
>China doesn't have option for immigration
Oh they definitely do. Chinese wages are very high compared to Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Nepal, or India. Even for rich countries like Japan or Singapore wages in the big cities can be better than worse areas of those countries.
>Xenophobic
I would LOVE to see your quantitative assessment on Chinas xenophobia as compared to other countries. Or is this just your impression based on... I dunno tik Tok or something?
Open_Pollution_8038 | 16 hours ago
lol the great country of Mexico, where the cartels kill 100’s of politicians each election cycle. Is that who you want to compare China against?
China doesn’t have the option to find high value immigrants because those immigrants could make 3x or 7x as much in Europe or America.
Is China xenophobic? They threw an ethnic minority in their country into reeducation camps. Yeah I’d say anyone who isn’t Han Chinese is viewed as an outsider. Their entire national agenda is about rectifying the century of shame imposed on it by foreign powers.
Edit - incoming comparison to Japanese camps in America
Iron-Fist | 16 hours ago
>Japanese internment camps
Why would that be the comparison? The US literally has 5x the incarceration rate of China. Literally 20x(!) the percent of black americans are nn prison than uyghurs. The US has literal concentration camps for migrants today, right now.
>High value immigrants make 3-7x in Europe or America
Great idea for those places! Everywhere likes it when the highest paying jobs go to immigrants. Sure hope their authorities agree to let them utilize this opportunity. Lemme check: what are the stances on immigration for LFN and AfD and the GOP again?
Falling_Up_The_Movie | 14 hours ago
Nah, the better comparison is the current concentration camps for hispanic people and the slavery of black people through the prison system
Falling_Up_The_Movie | 14 hours ago
That‘s why they‘ve been investing in automation, to do the same or more work with less people
devliegende | 18 hours ago
There's already more housing units than they have need for and it doesn't seem to be a good thing for them.
Iron-Fist | 18 hours ago
>more housing than they need
My dude average residence size there is less than 700 sqft, literally smaller than Singapore. They have room to grow lol
But you're right, currently they have excess units. Their housing prices have dropped 25% since 2021, can you imagine how awful that would be? They should really look at restricting their housing supply like we do in smart countries.
HypocrisyWarrior | 18 hours ago
Chinese people will never understand the privilege of paying an arm and leg to rent a shoebox with a shared bathroom like NYC.
Iron-Fist | 18 hours ago
I mean sure just don't look up the average rent to income ratio in Shanghai or Beijing
devliegende | 17 hours ago
You need to think this one through a little more.
Excess means more units than people. In such a scenario lower prices don't benefit anyone because the people who could have benefited don't exist. In the mean time it harms the people who own the units as well as the builders, the banks and the local government finances.
Falling_Up_The_Movie | 14 hours ago
Have you considered that it‘s a deliberate policy decision to not treat housing as a speculative commodity
devliegende | 14 hours ago
This is a bit of a silly notion. If that was an actual policy, actually implemented they would never have had excess supply in the first place.
sicklyslick | 12 hours ago
>If that was an actual policy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houses_are_for_living,_not_for_speculation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_red_lines
devliegende | 7 hours ago
Those came about 15 years too late. Should have been there before the speculation started, not after it crashed.
kongKing_11 | 19 hours ago
Compare to china. US definitely better for rich people and nepo kids. In China the politicians control rich peoples. In US the rich control the politicians. Money politics is widely accepted in US
Open_Pollution_8038 | 18 hours ago
China is a uni-party, there is no choice.
Only one of these countries has a self imposed leader for life and it’s not America. I highly doubt Xi Jinping is poor.
kongKing_11 | 16 hours ago
In China, the role of businessmen is to enrich the country, not interfere with its political system. The authorities have shown that they are willing to ruthlessly crack down on businessmen Sending their children overseas to obtain US citizenship is a potential Plan B for wealthy families seeking a fallback option.
There is also a strong public sentiment across East Asian societies that wealthy businessmen should not interfere in politics. Historically, dating back to imperial China businessmen and their families faced restrictions on entering officialdom.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 16 hours ago
lol it’s a one party state, there is no democracy. You do as you’re told or they’ll run you over with tanks.
sicklyslick | 12 hours ago
This rhetoric is so old. The police in Democratic countries have ran over way more people with their vehicles since June 4 1989.
Hate to use whataboutism, but US cops kill around 1000 person per year. They're basically doing a Tiananmen every year or so.
Falling_Up_The_Movie | 14 hours ago
You don‘t know how the chinese political system works
Open_Pollution_8038 | 11 hours ago
Oh I don’t? When was the last time China’s political party in control was not the communist party?
3uphoric-Departure | 18 hours ago
Clearly the Chinese government should’ve let millions of their countrymen stay in extreme poverty and the government should let themselves be fully co-opted by corporate interests so at least the ultra wealthy will feel comfortable leaving their money there.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 18 hours ago
Nobody said they should’ve let them stay poor, what I’m saying is the path they chose is going to lead them back to poverty.
73% dependency ratio by 2050, the environment is ruined beyond repair and their economy is only humming along because the government has so far been able to prop up low-wage manufacturing via government loans.
csman86 | 18 hours ago
When was the last time you visited China? Their environment is not ruined beyond repair because they have been repairing their environments.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 18 hours ago
Their rivers are so polluted that entire species of aquatic animals have become extinct in just the last 20 years. You cannot just dig out the heavy metals that are buried in the soil from all those unregulated manufacturing plants being allowed to dump waste. There was a cost to be paid for being the world factory and imo it wasn’t worth it.
That said, they are actually trying to fix some of it. They lead the world in green energy production now.
csman86 | 17 hours ago
Theyre not just leading the renewable tech, they have been repairing and planting trees since 1978, and have now planted over 78 billion trees, raising their overall forest from 10% in 1949 to 25% today. Look up the success of Chinas Water Ten Plan, which started in 2015 and raised Good Surface Water from 64% in 2015 to 90% in 2025, highly toxic water from 10% in 2015 to 0.7% in 2025. Feel free to ignore the data and continue your rambling about the Chinese.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 17 hours ago
Repairing and planting trees to stop desertification that they’re causing by polluting their country.
The Great Wall of trees you’re referring to is a monoculture mostly and has almost no ecological value. Nothing lives there.
The water there is tainted, they actually have a shortage of freshwater water because of it.
Serious_Number3154 | 17 hours ago
Desertification-affected areas are located in the northwest, a region where the industrial base is already weak.Moreover, desertification began hundreds of years ago.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 17 hours ago
The northwest and northeast is where all the shitty air from the factories blow. It’s why the north part of the country lived a decade less than the south up to a few years ago.
Legal-Chocolate8482 | 18 hours ago
lol he said the line! “At what cost” . Hundreds of millions of lives were saved from extreme poverty and China is a developed nation now…but at what cost???😂 more economical to just let the peasantry die off and remain a third world country!
(In purely economical terms the “cost” is tens of trillions of dollars in gdp gain. Investing in your population pays off believe it or not)
Literally every industrial society is facing this issue. It’s a product of modernist urban culture and living. Japan ,Italy , Spain , Germany etc are just as bad demographically. Taiwan , South Korea and Singapore are far worse off even. America is only staving it off somewhat with mass migration which comes with its own issues and is highly unpopular.
And in reality the future problem will be overpopulation, not underpopulation. Foxconn has already automated away 95% of their workforce at their apple factories. China already has dozens of “dark factories” with nearly zero laborers. In Xiaomis dark EV factory they only have 100 staff in total , most of them engineers, managers and quality inspectors. Almost zero laborers. A comparable VW plant in Germany making a similar number of cars has 5700 laborers and that’s not even counting all the support staff, management etc.
Self driving cars and trucks are being rolled out all over the world. In China there are already millions of fully autonomous cars on the road , so autonomous that the manufacturer takes liability for any car accident. In America alone this will kill off 3 to 4 million jobs. Driving/ trucking is the most common job in around 40 out of 50 states. It will kill off gig work too which 10s of millions just in the Us count on to make ends meet.
White collar work is also already in the process of being massively automated and is highly vulnerable to LLM Ai models.
The need for human labor is disappearing. I find it funny how incapable most people are from imagining a different future from the one we grew up in. You sound like someone crying out about a horse shortage in 1910 when they will soon be made utterly redundant. We will unfortunately have far too many people competing for bread scraps. In the future countries might ban almost all immigration and even restrict people from having kids. It will be bleak across the world but not in the way you picture it.
At least Chinese people will probably get a universal basic income. Us Americans will just starve.
Open_Pollution_8038 | 18 hours ago
I’m not reading like 8 full length paragraphs in response to my small post. You wrote an essay, trim it down and we can talk.
Negative-Bag-653 | 18 hours ago
+ most of what the poster is claiming is wrong anyways (e.g. that migration in America would be more significant than in western Europe countries)
Open_Pollution_8038 | 18 hours ago
Yeah I figured it was a propaganda rant spun up in a LLM lmao
IvoryTowerResident | 19 hours ago
Deomographics are kind screwed in the US as well and most western countries.
Euphoric_Leave1248 | 19 hours ago
US has one of the best demographic distribution of any western or Asian country on the planet so you including them clearly tells me you don’t know what you’re talking about. US demographics are not “screwed” lmfao it’s a very young country still.
Legal-Chocolate8482 | 18 hours ago
Only due to mass migration of low skilled migrants. In the long term that will backfire as more and more labor gets automated and the need for mass cheap labor is made redundant. In the future the problem will be overpopulation not underpopulation. Millions of driving jobs are already actively being replaced. In Chinese dark EV factories they only need 100 staff at a factory instead of thousands. Ai is advancing at a rapid pace. People crying out about low birthrates today are like people crying out about a horse shortage in 1910. The need for labor keeps decreasing every single year.
Euphoric_Leave1248 | 18 hours ago
So why is China desperately trying to raise their replacement rate surely they can come to the same conclusion as you? Or maybe you’re wrong?
Open_Pollution_8038 | 18 hours ago
Funny how the fastest growing and richest and most educated demographic is Indian-Americans.
Kind of blows the narrative that we only import poor uneducated immigrants lmao.
personman_76 | 19 hours ago
And?
IvoryTowerResident | 19 hours ago
thats not the reason people send their kids to the US. Education is probably the biggest part, you see plenty of Chinese sending their kinds to England as well
personman_76 | 19 hours ago
Nobody said it was, you just brought it up
IvoryTowerResident | 19 hours ago
read the comment i am replying to
They said China lifted millions out of poverty but at what cost and imply demographics is a cost. It isnt, all every developed country has that problem
personman_76 | 18 hours ago
I don't think you're very well read on current and recent past Chinese history. What other countries instituted a one child policy that led to a demographics shift?
They said no shit about the obviousness of Chinese money being deposited into American banks, and that they pay for their children to become citizens. They're implicitly talking about the entirety of the recent past, demographics are just an additional supporting argument for the overall destruction of the Chinese future
IvoryTowerResident | 18 hours ago
no other country had one child policy but they still have demographic problems. It is impossible to say if China didnt institute such policy it wont have demographic problems. What we see is demographic problems being part of modernization
personman_76 | 17 hours ago
We also aren't seeing the same demographic issues. It's like comparing a pond drying up to a sea drying up
devliegende | 18 hours ago
Except that China is not a developed country
personman_76 | 18 hours ago
Legally, no. I bet few people realize that they're still not classified as a developed nation by the United Nations. They fight every year to keep themselves from being reclassified, as that would mean they would be regulated as a developed nation rather than a developing nation. They don't want international regulation on their exports any more than they already deal with, and it's a big reason they can get away with so much gray area commerce
devliegende | 17 hours ago
Legally?
There are no laws regulating relations between nations. Only agreements, that countries may choose to ignore or not.