Opinion: I have a hard time understanding how this model is sustainable once the public understands they roll out the red carpet for serial losers and shut down accounts of serial winners. I'm probably thinking about it too rationally though. It's marketed as "fun" and "entertaining" seemingly.
Frankly I don’t understand how we as a society suddenly decided that gambling was something we decided was just going to be OK everywhere instead of a thing that the mafia handled.
The mafia traditionally and historically have a greater and deeper sense of community, food kitchens for those who need it, healthcare w/ friends and “family” included, security, and they usually support the unions and hates the cops. This isn't based on just what you see in the movies, I know something about the tradition (not a member, just downstream in some regards)
You'll never see the politicians and accelerationist #LGTTM hypercapitalist technofinancebros support that. You'll also never see them cry for others or lend a hand, but I have seen people in the mafia cry about others, and then help them get better.
Agreed, but I feel like the underlying catalyst for the mafia's greyer-than-black nature was necessity. The mafia operated within communities, like physically. (I say this for pretext of my point, not that you don't already know this obviously.) They used the community as both shield and shade, hiding within and utilizing people, places and organizations within to make money and move about. For that you need the community's consent, and said community could easily take some bats and beat the mafia's brains out if they ever decided it wasn't worth it. But, with enough bones thrown (even if the mafia still wins out in what they gain versus the community) suddenly no one saw anything and no one knows anything.
Basically, if the tech billionaires and their ilk had to live next to Shifty Larry who loves bashing things with his bat and make their money through Grandma Jane's shop, they'd play ball with both. At least that's my running theory on why things were and possibly, what would be needed to have things be as they were--in spirit, at least.
For that you need the community's consent, and said community could easily take some bats and beat the mafia's brains out if they ever decided it wasn't worth it.
Not really. For one, most people aren't willing to beat people's brains out. Secondly, trying to beat up a mafioso isn't something you can do alone.
Even if you kill one, you're a dead man walking from then on. Normal people have too much to lose to be willing to put themselves at that much risk. In order to be able to take on and kick out a gang from your neighborhood, you can't do it alone, you need a large group of people willing to do violence for each others benefit.
Which... You may have noticed, is now just another gang.
My sister in law was with a problem gambler for many years and I'll say this much, it's literally an addiction.
These people cannot help themselves and anytime things get stressful for them, they turn to it, just like any other addiction. There is no rationale to it.
I wish there were some law for addictive-by-nature-products that they HAVE to spend some % of money coming in to fund non-for-profit addiction help services like AAA or what have you.
This is one more thing on a pile of things that I can't believe we as a society pour money into and expect nothing from them in return.
... non-for-profit addiction help services like AAA...
I realize this is a typo, but it made me giggle anyway.
More to the point, there's probably a discussion to be had about AA/12-step and its effect on the way we think about addiction recovery. Having seen its effect first-hand, I don't think it's as unmitigated a good as many people think.
Oh, I wasn't really responding to your statement, with which I agree, more or less.
I just dislike AA being sorta synonymous with recovery. It's a program with some deep flaws that nonetheless works well for a certain percentage of addicts. The attitude many AA/12-step adherents have is that if it doesn't work for you, you're just beyond help. It's an attitude that often trips into toxicity.
Eh, not usually. Most of the addicts I've known have been miserable whilst in the throes of their addiction. Addictive stuff is usually only fun for a short while and rapidly becomes a psychic, emotional, physical and financial burden almost immediately.
There are state laws that mandate percentages go to gambling addiction awareness/treatment/prevention for example, and I believe tobacco has similar laws. But "addictive" is so much more complicated than people think. And it's hard to say sometimes how effective those things are, like the rails being used on DK in this article, they're not always reaching the people who need it.
The public understands that high end bags, clothes, and watches are mass produced in sweat shops like everything else, but they still drop tens of thousands for luxury designer brands. They understand that smoking causes lung cancer and nicotine causes heart disease but still smoke and vape like crazy. They understand that just because a sexy actor is wearing a certain type of cologne doesn't mean you'll be sexy by wearing it too, but advertising still works.
These things are all basically just hacks of the human psyche. They take advantage of the fact that we don't process reality objectively and rationally. We have little quirks in how our minds work that were evolutionarily advantageous, but can be exploited by people who don't care about the well being of others for massive profits.
We see flashing lights and examples of people winning lots of money and assume the same is likely to happen to us because of rudimentary, innate pattern matching mechanisms hardwired into us. We have quirks of our biology that make us gain pleasure from ingesting certain chemicals. We have an intense innate desire to aquire and guard things simply because other people seem to value them.
Rational, logical thought doesn't really factor into the decision making process when it comes to the deep seated psychological tricks the gambling industry uses. It appeals to the lizard brain, not the deep thinking one.
If you are interested in how gambling platforms and casinos design their products to be as addictive as possible, check out Addiction by Design by Natasha Dow Schüll. Great book that goes in-depth into the perspectives of both the casino management and the gamblers. The gambling apps use the same techniques that were developed in Las Vegas casinos.
The gambling apps use the same techniques that were developed in Las Vegas casinos.
This part is such a huge problem. Having to actually GO somewhere adds a hurdle that makes it that much harder to get exposed and drawn into addiction.
But with gambling apps, it takes all of 5 minutes to get started, literally anywhere (where it's legal) and any time. Bathroom break during work? Perfect time to place a few bets for tonight's events. It's always within arms reach. It's the equivalent of having a bookie follow you around 24/7, constantly nudging you and subtlety promising that you'll win big.
Sadly, the only way this gets addressed is with reform and regulations, which seems to be completely off the tabl in the near future.
Michael Lewis covered sports betting in his podcast in season 5. The accessibility alone is troubling — but the adoption by teenagers compounded by shitty parlays, incentives, and other tactics to generate and reward problem gamblers is disgusting.
i know it’s a bold claim, but i really don’t like predatory practices. :)
[OP] moonwalker | 19 hours ago
Great reporting. Interesting website design.
Companion video: https://youtu.be/l8IyGjdY1sg (27:33)
Opinion: I have a hard time understanding how this model is sustainable once the public understands they roll out the red carpet for serial losers and shut down accounts of serial winners. I'm probably thinking about it too rationally though. It's marketed as "fun" and "entertaining" seemingly.
MimicSquid | 19 hours ago
Casinos have feted losers and banned winners for decades and "the public" has never wised up sufficiently.
vord | 7 hours ago
Turns out addicts don't give up addictions easily just because they run out of money.
And an addict running out of money is much less dangerous than someone who can legally beat the house.
teaearlgraycold | 4 hours ago
I’m lucky I don’t really enjoy the most common destructive vices like gambling.
[OP] moonwalker | 17 hours ago
That's fair, but at least casinos have the facade of entertainment. Going somewhere unique with ambiance, beverages, and interesting characters.
Akir | 18 hours ago
Frankly I don’t understand how we as a society suddenly decided that gambling was something we decided was just going to be OK everywhere instead of a thing that the mafia handled.
macleod | 17 hours ago
The mafia traditionally and historically have a greater and deeper sense of community, food kitchens for those who need it, healthcare w/ friends and “family” included, security, and they usually support the unions and hates the cops. This isn't based on just what you see in the movies, I know something about the tradition (not a member, just downstream in some regards)
You'll never see the politicians and accelerationist #LGTTM hypercapitalist technofinancebros support that. You'll also never see them cry for others or lend a hand, but I have seen people in the mafia cry about others, and then help them get better.
We should have stuck with the mafia.
json | 12 hours ago
If you ignore all criminal activities, gangs look like a good community group.
If you ignore any criminal activities, technobros are still fucking weird.
vord | 7 hours ago
Robinhood wasn't exactly seen as a bad guy.
Don't recall Robinhood kneecapping people for more rent money though.
Froswald | 3 hours ago
Agreed, but I feel like the underlying catalyst for the mafia's greyer-than-black nature was necessity. The mafia operated within communities, like physically. (I say this for pretext of my point, not that you don't already know this obviously.) They used the community as both shield and shade, hiding within and utilizing people, places and organizations within to make money and move about. For that you need the community's consent, and said community could easily take some bats and beat the mafia's brains out if they ever decided it wasn't worth it. But, with enough bones thrown (even if the mafia still wins out in what they gain versus the community) suddenly no one saw anything and no one knows anything.
Basically, if the tech billionaires and their ilk had to live next to Shifty Larry who loves bashing things with his bat and make their money through Grandma Jane's shop, they'd play ball with both. At least that's my running theory on why things were and possibly, what would be needed to have things be as they were--in spirit, at least.
papasquat | 2 hours ago
Not really. For one, most people aren't willing to beat people's brains out. Secondly, trying to beat up a mafioso isn't something you can do alone.
Even if you kill one, you're a dead man walking from then on. Normal people have too much to lose to be willing to put themselves at that much risk. In order to be able to take on and kick out a gang from your neighborhood, you can't do it alone, you need a large group of people willing to do violence for each others benefit.
Which... You may have noticed, is now just another gang.
BeardyHat | 19 hours ago
My sister in law was with a problem gambler for many years and I'll say this much, it's literally an addiction.
These people cannot help themselves and anytime things get stressful for them, they turn to it, just like any other addiction. There is no rationale to it.
snake_case | 6 hours ago
I wish there were some law for addictive-by-nature-products that they HAVE to spend some % of money coming in to fund non-for-profit addiction help services like AAA or what have you.
This is one more thing on a pile of things that I can't believe we as a society pour money into and expect nothing from them in return.
Promonk | 5 hours ago
I realize this is a typo, but it made me giggle anyway.
More to the point, there's probably a discussion to be had about AA/12-step and its effect on the way we think about addiction recovery. Having seen its effect first-hand, I don't think it's as unmitigated a good as many people think.
snake_case | 3 hours ago
Ymmv on AA but like, you get my point, anything at all would be better than the black life sucking hole that these companies are by nature.
I cant believe we tolerate such entities in our society, things which only serve to suck the life and resources out of us and give nothing back.
Promonk | 2 hours ago
Oh, I wasn't really responding to your statement, with which I agree, more or less.
I just dislike AA being sorta synonymous with recovery. It's a program with some deep flaws that nonetheless works well for a certain percentage of addicts. The attitude many AA/12-step adherents have is that if it doesn't work for you, you're just beyond help. It's an attitude that often trips into toxicity.
teaearlgraycold | 3 hours ago
The addicts are at least having a good time while they indulge.
Promonk | 2 hours ago
Eh, not usually. Most of the addicts I've known have been miserable whilst in the throes of their addiction. Addictive stuff is usually only fun for a short while and rapidly becomes a psychic, emotional, physical and financial burden almost immediately.
DefinitelyNotAFae | 3 hours ago
There are state laws that mandate percentages go to gambling addiction awareness/treatment/prevention for example, and I believe tobacco has similar laws. But "addictive" is so much more complicated than people think. And it's hard to say sometimes how effective those things are, like the rails being used on DK in this article, they're not always reaching the people who need it.
papasquat | 2 hours ago
The public understands that high end bags, clothes, and watches are mass produced in sweat shops like everything else, but they still drop tens of thousands for luxury designer brands. They understand that smoking causes lung cancer and nicotine causes heart disease but still smoke and vape like crazy. They understand that just because a sexy actor is wearing a certain type of cologne doesn't mean you'll be sexy by wearing it too, but advertising still works.
These things are all basically just hacks of the human psyche. They take advantage of the fact that we don't process reality objectively and rationally. We have little quirks in how our minds work that were evolutionarily advantageous, but can be exploited by people who don't care about the well being of others for massive profits.
We see flashing lights and examples of people winning lots of money and assume the same is likely to happen to us because of rudimentary, innate pattern matching mechanisms hardwired into us. We have quirks of our biology that make us gain pleasure from ingesting certain chemicals. We have an intense innate desire to aquire and guard things simply because other people seem to value them.
Rational, logical thought doesn't really factor into the decision making process when it comes to the deep seated psychological tricks the gambling industry uses. It appeals to the lizard brain, not the deep thinking one.
kargaroc | 7 hours ago
If you are interested in how gambling platforms and casinos design their products to be as addictive as possible, check out Addiction by Design by Natasha Dow Schüll. Great book that goes in-depth into the perspectives of both the casino management and the gamblers. The gambling apps use the same techniques that were developed in Las Vegas casinos.
derekiscool | 4 hours ago
This part is such a huge problem. Having to actually GO somewhere adds a hurdle that makes it that much harder to get exposed and drawn into addiction.
But with gambling apps, it takes all of 5 minutes to get started, literally anywhere (where it's legal) and any time. Bathroom break during work? Perfect time to place a few bets for tonight's events. It's always within arms reach. It's the equivalent of having a bookie follow you around 24/7, constantly nudging you and subtlety promising that you'll win big.
Sadly, the only way this gets addressed is with reform and regulations, which seems to be completely off the tabl in the near future.
tomf | 2 hours ago
Michael Lewis covered sports betting in his podcast in season 5. The accessibility alone is troubling — but the adoption by teenagers compounded by shitty parlays, incentives, and other tactics to generate and reward problem gamblers is disgusting.
i know it’s a bold claim, but i really don’t like predatory practices. :)