>Relentless aerial bombardment does not release an imaginary inner American and unify populations against their governments, no matter how repressive they may be. Especially when civilian infrastructure is targeted: it unites them against the invader. When Trump posts he will “reign down hell on them”, he expresses the same idea as the American commander who said of a Vietnamese city in 1965: “It became necessary to destroy the town to save it.” The sequel will not be dissimilar in Iran.
Which just shows that American Empire and “US authority” deserve to be destroyed. The perspective of the article is weird and suggests that killing Iranian civilians and destroying their homes is bad only because it is so strategically stupid.
Reminds me of all the rueful reflections on the Iraq War I've seen that go something like: "the tragic cost of this endeavor includes the lives of 4,400 servicemembers ... and nearly one trillion dollars."
“The hazards of Operation Epic Fury were not unforeseen. Sober military professionals in the US, UK and other countries have war-gamed conflict with Iran dozens of times over many years. Trump was warned and chose not to listen.”
In the final weeks of WW2, the Nazi regime kept broadcasting propaganda to the population of the Reich: "Everything is great. We're decimating the enemy! Victory is within sight!"
But at that point, even the most ardent believers knew this was all crap. Troops on the front line were being slaughtered and captured. Civilians looked out their windows (if they still had any) to see most of Germany bombed back to the Stone Age.
There reaches a point where the truth is so blatantly obvious, there just isn't any denying it anymore.
I guarantee that the same thing is happening now. Even those MAGA who continue fervently defending this invasion know that it's not going well. And everyone can see the cost of everything going up and up and up, along with the unemployment rate.
The people who keep insisting that everything is great are trying to convince themselves of this more than they are anyone else.
I didn't vote for him once. Heck, my state didn't vote for him once. With the way the electoral college works, it's the state as a whole and not individual people who vote for president. If I didn't vote for him but lived in a state that did, and I did nothing to try to convince trump voters otherwise, sure I'd accept some blame.
As others have pointed out, I might blame non-voters even more than his voters. His voters are idiots or cult members, there's no helping them. For people who didn't vote though, it's pretty insane that they didn't see he was objectively worse and needed to be voted against. On that, though, I somewhat blame the media. They tried too hard at the beginning to get him on small things. We were so bombarded with petty stories to make him look bad that, by the time big stories emerged, it was too late, everyone had already made up their minds about him, or at least about media portrayal of him, and nothing the media would say could change their minds anymore.
That's why I'm struggling with a visceral hatred of 2/3 of the country: the 1/3 that voted for this and the other 1/3 that didn't care either way.
I'm trying to get to a point where I don't actively hate them but just want nothing to do with them. I'm doing this not for their sake, but for my own.
The Democratic establishment bears a lot of responsibility as well, for deciding on an unpopular candidate and just expecting people to vote for that person. People were saying years ago that if either Biden or Harris went against Trump in 2024, Trump would win.
It's not only Trump voters. It is everyone who was able to vote against him, but didn't, no matter the reason. They don't get to dodge moral responsibility for their contribution.
The thing is that you elected him twice. Once would could be dismissed as an aberration, but two times makes clear that American society elected Trump because it embodies something deeply embedded in it as a whole, like it or not.
I hate it because I’m a naturalized citizen. I’m afraid to poke my head up at protests because I’m terrified of my American citizenship getting stripped for being a “traitor”. :/
Massive protests, town halls full, switchboards jammed. Only so much you can do when they're replacing top brass in the military to issue illegal orders.
The winds are changing, though, and no one exists to take the Mad King's place to lead the cult of personality.
BTW I was referring to both organized economic pressure (eg strikes, tax withholding). direct action (for example, in many, perhaps most, countries, at least a few ICE agents would have experienced some real consequences. Also, riots always make a statement), and, most importantly, some good Dual Power institutions, like some public safety militias to protect people from ICE.
Again, I don't think you're wrong. Voting is just a piece of being a responsible citizen. If we were all knowledgeable and active participants in our country's politics, we'd be in a different place now.
Why do 2 people in the same town with the same social and economic background see things completely differently? I mean as different as black and white. Somehow some of us are convinced to promote and vote for policies that are contrary to our best interests. (I don't think that's me, naturally.)
If we see things go off the rails (as some of us do now), the next level of political action is called for. By that I mean peaceful protests and strikes. These are effective even in the current climate.
I agree. Americans will say "this is not who we are" but MAGA has been embedded in the core of American society for a long time, Trump just made it patent.
Absolutely we are. The vast majority of us could have done more, much more to prevent this. A very small minority - people like Marc Elias as a top of mind example - went above and beyond (and continues to do so) and are, to me, totally blameless. But we own this as a country. Not just the people who voted for him.
zipiddydooda | 15 hours ago
I hope Trump lives long enough to see the inside of a cell.
[OP] Theao69 | 14 hours ago
Same here. But I strongly doubt it...
Syringmineae | 11 hours ago
We all know he never will.
councilmember | 12 hours ago
Yeah. But honestly, I’m open to seeing him suffer other penalties instead.
DanoPinyon | 10 hours ago
TBH, He is the vehicle (or the tool). Many are the architects of the destruction, and are using Him as the hammer.
[Edit: fatfanger]
RockFiles23 | 9 hours ago
And we should be working on the mechanism of their accountability
DanoPinyon | 9 hours ago
I'm investing in guillotine manufacturing systems! 😃
[OP] Theao69 | 16 hours ago
This passage stuck with me:
>Relentless aerial bombardment does not release an imaginary inner American and unify populations against their governments, no matter how repressive they may be. Especially when civilian infrastructure is targeted: it unites them against the invader. When Trump posts he will “reign down hell on them”, he expresses the same idea as the American commander who said of a Vietnamese city in 1965: “It became necessary to destroy the town to save it.” The sequel will not be dissimilar in Iran.
Excellent_Valuable92 | 8 hours ago
Which just shows that American Empire and “US authority” deserve to be destroyed. The perspective of the article is weird and suggests that killing Iranian civilians and destroying their homes is bad only because it is so strategically stupid.
JabroniusHunk | 6 hours ago
Reminds me of all the rueful reflections on the Iraq War I've seen that go something like: "the tragic cost of this endeavor includes the lives of 4,400 servicemembers ... and nearly one trillion dollars."
Excellent_Valuable92 | 6 hours ago
“…and probably some people were impacted by the destruction of their country, I guess.”
SurpriseMiraluka | 10 hours ago
“The hazards of Operation Epic Fury were not unforeseen. Sober military professionals in the US, UK and other countries have war-gamed conflict with Iran dozens of times over many years. Trump was warned and chose not to listen.”
Delightfully pointed use of the word sober
Excellent_Valuable92 | 6 hours ago
Not to mention “military professionals.”
rotervogel1231 | 11 hours ago
In the final weeks of WW2, the Nazi regime kept broadcasting propaganda to the population of the Reich: "Everything is great. We're decimating the enemy! Victory is within sight!"
But at that point, even the most ardent believers knew this was all crap. Troops on the front line were being slaughtered and captured. Civilians looked out their windows (if they still had any) to see most of Germany bombed back to the Stone Age.
There reaches a point where the truth is so blatantly obvious, there just isn't any denying it anymore.
I guarantee that the same thing is happening now. Even those MAGA who continue fervently defending this invasion know that it's not going well. And everyone can see the cost of everything going up and up and up, along with the unemployment rate.
The people who keep insisting that everything is great are trying to convince themselves of this more than they are anyone else.
Excellent_Valuable92 | 9 hours ago
Don’t try to put a positive spin on this guy.
CymruSober | 15 hours ago
I am so sick of Americans acting like they aren’t responsible for Trump!!!
thdiod | 8 hours ago
I didn't vote for him once. Heck, my state didn't vote for him once. With the way the electoral college works, it's the state as a whole and not individual people who vote for president. If I didn't vote for him but lived in a state that did, and I did nothing to try to convince trump voters otherwise, sure I'd accept some blame.
As others have pointed out, I might blame non-voters even more than his voters. His voters are idiots or cult members, there's no helping them. For people who didn't vote though, it's pretty insane that they didn't see he was objectively worse and needed to be voted against. On that, though, I somewhat blame the media. They tried too hard at the beginning to get him on small things. We were so bombarded with petty stories to make him look bad that, by the time big stories emerged, it was too late, everyone had already made up their minds about him, or at least about media portrayal of him, and nothing the media would say could change their minds anymore.
FlyAwayJai | 13 hours ago
*30% of Americans are responsible for Trump. The rest didn’t vote for him, or were not eligible to vote due to age.
Skimable_crude | 13 hours ago
The non-voters bear some responsibility as well especially those who knew better, but didn't like Kamala.
rotervogel1231 | 12 hours ago
That's why I'm struggling with a visceral hatred of 2/3 of the country: the 1/3 that voted for this and the other 1/3 that didn't care either way.
I'm trying to get to a point where I don't actively hate them but just want nothing to do with them. I'm doing this not for their sake, but for my own.
Excellent_Valuable92 | 8 hours ago
The rest of us are not doing much, either
FlyAwayJai | 12 hours ago
I fully agree. Didn’t have that stat on the top of my head though.
informallyundecided | 10 hours ago
The Democratic establishment bears a lot of responsibility as well, for deciding on an unpopular candidate and just expecting people to vote for that person. People were saying years ago that if either Biden or Harris went against Trump in 2024, Trump would win.
hooptyschloopy | 9 hours ago
They seemed to have thrown the election. The two party system also is responsible.
FreeCashFlow | 5 hours ago
It's not only Trump voters. It is everyone who was able to vote against him, but didn't, no matter the reason. They don't get to dodge moral responsibility for their contribution.
Excellent_Valuable92 | 8 hours ago
People like you and me also bear some responsibility
AndreasNarvartensis | 8 hours ago
The thing is that you elected him twice. Once would could be dismissed as an aberration, but two times makes clear that American society elected Trump because it embodies something deeply embedded in it as a whole, like it or not.
DanoPinyon | 10 hours ago
23%. Only ~23% of citizens voted for this garbage.
Excellent_Valuable92 | 7 hours ago
And the rest of us are doing fuck all about it.
pheothz | 7 hours ago
I hate it because I’m a naturalized citizen. I’m afraid to poke my head up at protests because I’m terrified of my American citizenship getting stripped for being a “traitor”. :/
Excellent_Valuable92 | 7 hours ago
Understandable. You absolutely need to be cautious
DanoPinyon | 7 hours ago
Massive protests, town halls full, switchboards jammed. Only so much you can do when they're replacing top brass in the military to issue illegal orders.
The winds are changing, though, and no one exists to take the Mad King's place to lead the cult of personality.
Excellent_Valuable92 | 6 hours ago
“Only so much.” Yes, but a hell of a lot more is possible.
DanoPinyon | 6 hours ago
Oh? Such as? What is it that we are not doing?
Excellent_Valuable92 | 6 hours ago
Lol this is why they don’t teach Americans history. They want you to be just this helpless.
DanoPinyon | 3 hours ago
I didn't think you knew. lol.
Excellent_Valuable92 | 4 hours ago
BTW I was referring to both organized economic pressure (eg strikes, tax withholding). direct action (for example, in many, perhaps most, countries, at least a few ICE agents would have experienced some real consequences. Also, riots always make a statement), and, most importantly, some good Dual Power institutions, like some public safety militias to protect people from ICE.
CymruSober | 13 hours ago
No, everybody is responsible right now.
FlyAwayJai | 12 hours ago
“Hey everyone who is under 18, incapacitated by age or illness, or who have a felony - it’s your fault too!”
Yeah that makes a lot of sense.
Excellent_Valuable92 | 8 hours ago
You’re not in any of those categories. The rest of us are responsible
Skimable_crude | 11 hours ago
You're getting down voted for an overly general comment, I think. But taken to mean every adult capable and eligible to vote, you're not wrong.
Vesploogie | 8 hours ago
They’re getting downvoted because it’s a high school level thought.
CymruSober | 10 hours ago
The focus on the vote is also deliberate framing to act as if the present doesn’t exist.
Skimable_crude | 9 hours ago
Again, I don't think you're wrong. Voting is just a piece of being a responsible citizen. If we were all knowledgeable and active participants in our country's politics, we'd be in a different place now.
Why do 2 people in the same town with the same social and economic background see things completely differently? I mean as different as black and white. Somehow some of us are convinced to promote and vote for policies that are contrary to our best interests. (I don't think that's me, naturally.)
If we see things go off the rails (as some of us do now), the next level of political action is called for. By that I mean peaceful protests and strikes. These are effective even in the current climate.
Excellent_Valuable92 | 6 hours ago
Absolutely. The passivity has been shocking, even to me, and I didn’t have high expectations of us
tokyobrownielover | 14 hours ago
We weren't responsible for slavery either. /s
AndreasNarvartensis | 9 hours ago
I agree. Americans will say "this is not who we are" but MAGA has been embedded in the core of American society for a long time, Trump just made it patent.
No_Ferret_5450 | 4 hours ago
Nothing will change until Americans take responsibility and admit that actually, this is who they are
CymruSober | 9 hours ago
They think that school shootings and no healthcare are the price they pay for being the best country in the world
RobotHavGunz | 11 hours ago
Absolutely we are. The vast majority of us could have done more, much more to prevent this. A very small minority - people like Marc Elias as a top of mind example - went above and beyond (and continues to do so) and are, to me, totally blameless. But we own this as a country. Not just the people who voted for him.
WhatTheCluck802 | 11 hours ago
Paywalled
[OP] Theao69 | 11 hours ago
It's also in the post description, but here it is again:
https://web.archive.org/web/20260408094520/https://www.newstatesman.com/international-politics/geopolitics/2026/04/the-end-of-the-american-empire
WhatTheCluck802 | 11 hours ago
Ah thank you. Missed that. Need more coffee this morning apparently. 🙄