Is this on topic for this site? I honestly can't tell anymore. Does this have technical points, or does it include strategies for using tools to be more effective as a developer? Not really, IMO. It's full of hot air (gas!), and maybe something approaching concern, but is ultimately pretty vacuous (IMO). I know we currently have a discussion on the vibecoding tag getting demoted algorithmically, but this piece is a perfect example of why we should refine the tag definition and filter out content like this that is bloviation.
Yes it’s just fearmongering. Fear is the main emotion elicited by this piece. It’s not technical or intellectually interesting in any way.
There is enough fear in the world right now. Let’s keep this place the sanctuary is should be
IMO, every single post with 'AI' or 'vibecoding' on this site is useless drivel.
My favorite recurring theme in said drivel is the "Well if only you used $SPECIFIC_VERSION of $SPECIFIC_MODEL then you would see!" It reminds me of the bevy of buffoons from my illspent youth preaching "If only you read the Bible this way you'd see that Jesus is Real and White and Racist like me!"
I will say that the framing of AI as a Vampire isn't bad, though I think a better analogy is Methamphetamine. It feels great -- I imagine, having never tried -- when you're using; it makes you do things faster, but worse. You get addicted to it, it burns you out, but you keep using because it feels good and fast; but it's not good, and it's really not fast, it's just rotting your teeth and making you unrecognizable to friends and coworkers.
I eagerly await the oncoming collapse. I think I might take up basket weaving.
I continue to read the tag because I find some of the posts valuable, like Mitchell's piece on how he adopted AI, or the piece on estimating LLM's resource usage. The signal to noise ratio for the tag is too high tho, and I don't think this piece is even about llm-usage so much as it is about exploitation of labor (which may or may not be on topic here).
I think it is on topic? It's an article about writing software. I don't agree with all parts of it, but it's a pretty salient topic in sofware development today.
I reread the "about" section for this site and didn't find anything there to exclude a post like this at least.
Most charitably, you could say this is a naive read on value extraction and how to treat one's labor. Is that LLM-specific? I do not think so, and so it should not be tagged with vibecoding; maybe this could be tagged with practice, but even then it is very low quality in my opinion, and is engaged in a pretty wild performative contradiction.
Because 1) Steve Yegge is pro-AI and 2) his writing is annoying, people are abusing the off-topic flag, and using it as a generalized down-vote mechanism.
But while having an annoying style might mean I won't read you, it doesn't make you off-topic. Being wrong doesn't make you off-topic. Only being off-topic makes you off-topic.
The tricky thing about being on-topic: sometimes it's less about whether an article fits into a category, and more about whether it enriches the community. Did I learn something reading this? Do I think others will learn something? Can I come to the comments and find an opinion that enriches the article? Am I inspired to come and join the discussion? Was the article written by an active member?
As lobsters, we're empowered to tend to our own walled garden. Answering these questions is what separates us from HN! What kind of articles do you want to be engaging with? More of this?
I don't think this is right at all. But maybe I can't reasonably summarize your view, because it sure sounds like "it's on-topic if I liked it, and off-topic if I disliked it".
Lobsters specifically did not enable downvoting for stories, and removed it for comments, because the flags are for narrow reasons that require justification. Specifically, the phrase is that flags "curb punishing disagreement". The "incorrect" flag was also removed.
(Please don't use flagging to try to push down topics or people you don't like; click "hide" on the story and move on rather than clutter up the mod dashboard with false alarms.)
Despite the flags, this submission is right now smack dab in the middle of the front page, mostly because people loudly complaining about the flagging push the ranking up.
It’s true that it’s on the front page, though I might note that the current thread started not with someone complaining about the flags, but giving the incorrect rationale for flagging.
However, just because you don’t succeed, doesn’t mean you weren’t trying.
It's incredibly unreflective, especially given Yegge's position: "But I’m still standing up and telling everyone “do it this way!” I even co-wrote a book about it." This comment puts it better than I am. Yegge saying "I’m going to continue to launch stuff, post blogs, all that. But be aware that I’m pushing back hard behind the scenes. I’m saying No to a bunch of people asking for meetings, and resisting the incessant demand for podcasts and appearances." ain't good enough, if we take his argument at face value.
I agree with those criticisms but I still think the article has a lot going for it. I think the general idea that heightened productivity with vibecoding leads to exhaustion is very useful and mirrors my experience. In the end it's an experience report. You might still think the author is a fool (and I'll agree) but it's interesting nonetheless, and IMO stands out from all the other boring stuff submitted under t/vibecoding. Still far from off-topic.
Hey, shoveling children into Moloch is the inevitable future, and I'm absolutely at the forefront of it, but I regret encouraging you to spend more than about four hours a day in front of the furnace with a pitchfork.
This is a good example of how lobste.rs flagging has turned into a downvote. People are flagging this because they don’t like the author’s opinions. Writing about the practice of software engineering in companies has always been on topic on this site. The writing in the article is obviously written by a human. I don’t even agree with the article or with AI hype generally but I’m sad to see lobste.rs gradually turn into HN/Reddit.
yeah most of the comments don't have anything to say about the article itself. that mental decline on the site has been ongoing since before AI though.
jcd | 8 hours ago
Is this on topic for this site? I honestly can't tell anymore. Does this have technical points, or does it include strategies for using tools to be more effective as a developer? Not really, IMO. It's full of hot air (gas!), and maybe something approaching concern, but is ultimately pretty vacuous (IMO). I know we currently have a discussion on the vibecoding tag getting demoted algorithmically, but this piece is a perfect example of why we should refine the tag definition and filter out content like this that is bloviation.
wrl | 6 hours ago
Absolute trash AI images all throughout too. Wasn't there a proposed rule against submitting slop?
mtsolitary | 6 hours ago
Yes it’s just fearmongering. Fear is the main emotion elicited by this piece. It’s not technical or intellectually interesting in any way. There is enough fear in the world right now. Let’s keep this place the sanctuary is should be
ksynwa | 5 hours ago
It's offtopic for sure but the bits about vibecoding until passing out and having 22 claude max accounts are sublime.
jfredett | 5 hours ago
IMO, every single post with 'AI' or 'vibecoding' on this site is useless drivel.
My favorite recurring theme in said drivel is the "Well if only you used $SPECIFIC_VERSION of $SPECIFIC_MODEL then you would see!" It reminds me of the bevy of buffoons from my illspent youth preaching "If only you read the Bible this way you'd see that Jesus is Real and White and Racist like me!"
I will say that the framing of AI as a Vampire isn't bad, though I think a better analogy is Methamphetamine. It feels great -- I imagine, having never tried -- when you're using; it makes you do things faster, but worse. You get addicted to it, it burns you out, but you keep using because it feels good and fast; but it's not good, and it's really not fast, it's just rotting your teeth and making you unrecognizable to friends and coworkers.
I eagerly await the oncoming collapse. I think I might take up basket weaving.
jcd | 3 hours ago
I continue to read the tag because I find some of the posts valuable, like Mitchell's piece on how he adopted AI, or the piece on estimating LLM's resource usage. The signal to noise ratio for the tag is too high tho, and I don't think this piece is even about llm-usage so much as it is about exploitation of labor (which may or may not be on topic here).
duck_tape | 5 hours ago
I think it is on topic? It's an article about writing software. I don't agree with all parts of it, but it's a pretty salient topic in sofware development today.
I reread the "about" section for this site and didn't find anything there to exclude a post like this at least.
jcd | 4 hours ago
Most charitably, you could say this is a naive read on value extraction and how to treat one's labor. Is that LLM-specific? I do not think so, and so it should not be tagged with
vibecoding; maybe this could be tagged withpractice, but even then it is very low quality in my opinion, and is engaged in a pretty wild performative contradiction.hyperpape | 2 hours ago
Four posts on burnout that have no off-topic flags. I take it that burnout is no more on-topic than employers exploiting employees in tech.
Because 1) Steve Yegge is pro-AI and 2) his writing is annoying, people are abusing the off-topic flag, and using it as a generalized down-vote mechanism.
But while having an annoying style might mean I won't read you, it doesn't make you off-topic. Being wrong doesn't make you off-topic. Only being off-topic makes you off-topic.
jtm | an hour ago
The tricky thing about being on-topic: sometimes it's less about whether an article fits into a category, and more about whether it enriches the community. Did I learn something reading this? Do I think others will learn something? Can I come to the comments and find an opinion that enriches the article? Am I inspired to come and join the discussion? Was the article written by an active member?
As lobsters, we're empowered to tend to our own walled garden. Answering these questions is what separates us from HN! What kind of articles do you want to be engaging with? More of this?
hyperpape | an hour ago
I don't think this is right at all. But maybe I can't reasonably summarize your view, because it sure sounds like "it's on-topic if I liked it, and off-topic if I disliked it".
Lobsters specifically did not enable downvoting for stories, and removed it for comments, because the flags are for narrow reasons that require justification. Specifically, the phrase is that flags "curb punishing disagreement". The "incorrect" flag was also removed.
Allow me to quote from the about page (https://lobste.rs/about.html):
gerikson | 31 minutes ago
Despite the flags, this submission is right now smack dab in the middle of the front page, mostly because people loudly complaining about the flagging push the ranking up.
hyperpape | 18 minutes ago
It’s true that it’s on the front page, though I might note that the current thread started not with someone complaining about the flags, but giving the incorrect rationale for flagging.
However, just because you don’t succeed, doesn’t mean you weren’t trying.
untitaker | 3 hours ago
this has nothing to do with whether it's on-topic. you still haven't explained how/why it's low quality.
jcd | 3 hours ago
Here are two reasons:
untitaker | 3 hours ago
I agree with those criticisms but I still think the article has a lot going for it. I think the general idea that heightened productivity with vibecoding leads to exhaustion is very useful and mirrors my experience. In the end it's an experience report. You might still think the author is a fool (and I'll agree) but it's interesting nonetheless, and IMO stands out from all the other boring stuff submitted under t/vibecoding. Still far from off-topic.
gcupc | 4 hours ago
Hey, shoveling children into Moloch is the inevitable future, and I'm absolutely at the forefront of it, but I regret encouraging you to spend more than about four hours a day in front of the furnace with a pitchfork.
mk12 | 4 hours ago
This is a good example of how lobste.rs flagging has turned into a downvote. People are flagging this because they don’t like the author’s opinions. Writing about the practice of software engineering in companies has always been on topic on this site. The writing in the article is obviously written by a human. I don’t even agree with the article or with AI hype generally but I’m sad to see lobste.rs gradually turn into HN/Reddit.
gerikson | 2 hours ago
Pretty sure the flags are because this was submitted a day after a typical temper flare-up that occurs here from time to time: https://lobste.rs/s/rqsjod/proposal_add_hotness_25_vibe_coding. I wouldn't read too much into it
I neither flagged nor upvoted this submission.
untitaker | 3 hours ago
yeah most of the comments don't have anything to say about the article itself. that mental decline on the site has been ongoing since before AI though.
ocramz | 2 hours ago
it's the weekly Yegge word diarrhoea wooo
alper | an hour ago
This is "unkind" but shouldn't be flagged as such because it's accurate.
gerikson | an hour ago
Pretty sure Yegge can take it.