You can't get blood from a stone, Boomers. You want your social security checks? You want your free healthcare? You better pray the youth has some money to give.
Imagine if the US put this amount of effort and enforcement to tax fraud or literally anything else.
And the fighting only counts if we declare war. Death during minor military operations/conflicts/peace operations/training disqualifies you from these and all other benefits.
The federal government in its current form is failing. It doesn’t know how to help its people with any of the things meaningful to them and is concerned with foreign wars, AI, ballrooms, and grift.
It’s not a mechanism to help people but rather just to punish based on who holds the reins to power.
Boomers pulled up the ladder behind them then blame us for not working hard enough. I cannot wait for the boomers to die off so we can finally start voting for policies that help the masses rather then the incumbent boomers
Sadly, you’re going to have to wait for my generation (GenX) as well. I’m saddened by what my generation has become. Bunch of right wing Trump supporters.
The way GenX sided with boomers over millennials was something else. Sorry you didn't ever learn you could just say no to them but you don't have to take it out on us.
Thankfully they’re a huge cohort, and have had constant challenges throughout early adulthood - from the 2008 economic crisis to Covid to current day, it’s been one struggle after another. I know many of them are doing fine, but hoping there’s enough empathy among those who want political office to drive change.
I think about this a ton - what happens when boomers actually begin to exit. And the sad realization I’ve had is, they hoard most of the wealth. A good chunk will go towards medical expenses/care for them in old age but the remainder will get passed down to their kids. This is many trillions in aggregate.
While these kids might not align politically with their parents, when staring at a life changing inheritance- I expect them to continue the same patterns of selfishness and rigging the system in their own favor.
There is already an abundance of this in the online influencer world. As someone who travels a lot, I see these people in all the hotspots making videos on “you can live like this if you buy my course” and I know 100% their family owns a mansion back in Orange County in California.
People are selfish by nature and most inheriting wealth who might not even have real jobs will see that inheritance as their only opportunity. They will do their best to not let it slip.
well it's already happening. they're falling for AI scams left and right. They're gonna be throwing money away on things to help their end of life. The system doesn't want their wealth transferring to their kids. They want to suck that supply out of the economy and keep us poors poor.
Most small time wealth is lost within 2 generations. We can talk shit about boomers all we want, but the boomers who were able to gain all that and keep a hold of it are on a completely different level than trust fund ipad babies
these are just some examples what the boomers are being fed. lot of these maga scum boomers aren't gonna leave their kids money if they don't align politically. these people are scum.
End of life care. Even though redditors think boomers are rolling but many if not most just aren’t. Wealthy boomers already have trusts set up and that money has been slowly moved to their kids and grandkids. The bulk will lose most of their remaining “wealth” paying for medical costs and end of life care.
why don't we simply throw them into the sea? serious. if we got rid of 100% of boomers today, society would be a lot better off. they lived a good life. time to go.
> Imagine if the US put this amount of effort and enforcement to tax fraud or literally anything else.
Student loan wage garnishments have been on hold since COVID, you can't say the same about 'tax fraud or literally anything else'
I bet when everything is added up, the student loan parts of all the COVID relief will end up costing the most. People haven't had to do an IDR income recertification in about 5 years and they got over 3 years of a payment pause that counted towards forgiveness, including counting towards PSLF
Policy has shifted multiple times since Covid relief with the most recent significant shift coming from Trump’s OBBBA.
Student loans under OBBBA were supposed to be a spending offset for the corporate tax cuts that were also incorporated in the same bill. Instead it’s so far increased default rates by ~10.5% and reduced access to higher education.
It’s a bit early to say for sure the impacts of this will have on the macro level, but I’m sure many economists will agree that a less educated population that’s straddled with debt that cannot be paid back is a bad thing.
> Student loans under OBBBA were supposed to be a spending offset for the corporate tax cuts that were also incorporated in the same bill
That is BS government accounting, the federal student loan program was losing money before OBBB and will continue to loss money after OBBB
> Instead it’s so far increased default rates by ~10.5% and reduced access to higher education.
People are only getting forced off the SAVE forbearance as of the last couple of weeks, so it is too early to say what is causing the increased default rates.
> but I’m sure many economists will agree that a less educated population that’s straddled with debt that cannot be paid back is a bad thing.
Many economists will also argue that unlimited borrowing ability contributed to the explosive growth in higher education costs and they will also argue that plenty of degrees are not marketable and should be eliminated or severely restricted. So at a minimum this system is a very wasteful and inefficient way to get an 'educated population'
You’re misinformed. For a student loan to be considered in default, it has to be 270 days past the scheduled payment date. Default rates have increased to ~10.5% even before the 10/13 ‘deadline’ and forbearance ended.
Defaults can be directly attributed to tighter forbearance rules, higher monthly obligation baselines under RAP, and the return of standard credit reporting/collections for delinquent accounts.
This is all directly attributable to the current administration. And defaults will of course continue to increase after this round of forbearance ends.
No, you are misinformed. No one was forced off the SAVE forbearance until very recently, so any sort of default rate increasing has nothing to do with OBBB changes as of now That may be different in the coming months but as of now it isn't true
> higher monthly obligation baselines under RAP
RAP was only implemented this past July and no one was forced on to it.
> and the return of standard credit reporting/collections for delinquent accounts.
That has nothing to do with OBBB and collections haven't even been restarted yet. Further, not reporting the default rate accurately doesn't actually change the default rate. The default rate was still the same, it just wasn't being reported.
There’s more than one type of forbearance friend. And not every borrower was on the SAVE plan.
OBBBA changed the policy rules and repayment structures just as millions of borrowers were struggling to resume payments. Many of those changes went into effect during the summer of 2025 when the bill was signed.
You realize you can just look up the costs, right?
And you would lose your bet. PPP loan forgiveness cost $763B, student loan deferment costs are estimated at $210B (2020-2023). So let's be generous and say there was an ongoing cost that doubled the original cost of student loan deferment. PPP forgiveness was still outrageously expensive above and beyond whatever student loan policies cost.
> student loan deferment costs are estimated at $210B (2020-2023).
The student loan COVID era relief is still going on to this day. That is why I said 'when everything is added up'
> So let's be generous and say there was an ongoing cost that doubled the original cost of student loan deferment.
I'd say it'll be upwards of $700 to 800 billion in cost when you factor in everything, including the fact people have not had to do an income recertification in over 5 years. Then add in the biden one time account adjustment. There are doctors that are getting hundred in thousands in forgiveness they otherwise would not be but for the COVID payment pause and the IDR recertification pause
I'm bitter as fuck about them taking that 10k that Biden promised away from me.
I have an email from the President that says ALL of my remaining student loans were forgiven. I was doing just fine paying them back, but I really really fucking could have used that since I started college late and missed out on a lot of scholarships.
Every Republican can go suck shit from Trump's ass.
If that had gone through, I might be on the last year of my own student loans. It's the one tangible thing a politician was going to do for me, since I never benefited from Obamacare. The ONE thing and the GOP had to sue it away.
Oh, and the last 3 GOP presidents have all started wars in the middle east.
they can give 8 billion to farmers this year cuz of diesel costs, but can't forgive some loans. Diesel costs that are up because of pointless and costly war. Just idiocracy. they're gonna spend more on debt collectors and loan servicing than the amount of loans themselves.
but we can give a bunch of forgiven PPP scam loans during covid.. this country deserves the burn thats coming.
There should be some consequences for not paying up debt taken on with their own responsibility. Nobody has to go to college and no one wants to fund someone else’s useless degrees. I heard the trades make a lot of money now, no degree required.
Where’s the outrage against the education bureaucracy that charges that debt in the first place? Oh yea, because college admin is politically on the same side of high government paid loans, I wonder why?
I agree there is a degree of personal responsibility at play here, but lots of degrees that are necessary to keep society running have relatively low ROI. We still need teachers and social workers, even if they don’t get paid a bunch.
To your second point, lots of people of all political leanings have big issues with how education is run at the moment.
What makes you think so? Pay tends to follow supply and demand. Not saying some occupations aren’t useful. Noble jobs don’t equal high pay necessarily.
Wage labor and salaried labor are suppressed beyond measure across the nearly the entire planet. There is a coordinated economic right wing conspiracy to not only perpetuate this, but to ridicule and gaslight everyone who questions this prevailing mode of production. The big C, baby.
No they aren't extraordinary claims, and you're doing the thing.
"Lying eyes, blah blah blah"
This thread stands as a testament to how important education is and how education entails too many externalities (on both supply and demand sides) to leave it up to the free market.
You’re saying big rich capitalists are working together to suppress wages around the world. I can tell you’re unhappy about things but man, that’s a wild claim.
It’s a no brainer that businesses will try to pay the least they can legally. You would do the same I bet if you owned a business.
You've got it a little twisted. Pay is determined by how hard it is to replace someone. If someone off the street can do the job it has very little labor value. A finance degree from a feeder school probably has the highest degree ROI possible, but I struggle to agree that Investment Banking and Private Equity are the most necessary jobs out there.
Yes, and how hard it is to replace someone is a supply and demand thing. If demand is high and supply is low, you get high salaries to attract candidates.
Hasn’t Trump been trying revoke PSLF too? Also a lot of necessary jobs require degrees and even if they have high pay don’t cover theirs student loan costs. Pediatricians can make less the electricians but have $500k in student loan debt.
Taking a loan of 60,000 dollars a year for four years to become a teacher or social worker is a decision that lacks all common sense. That is the responsibility of the person that made that terrible decision, not the rest of us tax payers. People go to community college for two years and then an instate school for a fraction of that and are not in debt the rest of their lives while having the same credentials in the end.
Trade school costs money too. It's not free in all states. Many would still need student loans for trade school. Obviously trade school won't be 70k though.
It costs money to go to trade school and apprenticeships pay shit. Plus trades almost always have terrible benefits while you sacrifice your body and health for the job. There are a handful of people who make bank with trades, but the reality is they're not making money running wire or fixing plumbing, they're making big money being business owners and having hundreds of grunts who do that for them.
Flat out bullshit, my grandfather spent every occasion I saw him reinforcing that I needed to go to college to avoid the constant pain he lived with and mesothelioma which killed him from working as a laborer. Everyone minded these jobs, they did everything they could to escape them and if they couldn't everything they could to help their children find a better life.
Is your grandpa your handler? Do you have no agency of your own?
The fantasy you're talking about relied on a permanent stream of poor immigrants to take the shitty jobs. Or a really poor laborer in China to manufacture it. Someone was always working those jobs.
> everything they could to help their children find a better life.
Except for paying off their student loans for them, I guess.
That is not a lot of money. Median annual earnings for those who worked full-time in the US is $63,360. Median is not "a lot." Men with bachelor's degrees earn approximately $900,000 more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. You're much better off taking on debt and going to college.
The broader point I’m making is that it’s not going to go well. You can certainly garnish the wages of borrowers, but you’ll cause downstream effects of the broader economy.
You’re punishing borrowers for a broken borrowing system.
Nobody forced people to take loans. Borrowers agreed to terms and those terms got massive relief recently and now going back to original terms. They should be happy they got relief at all. I hundred percent agree people won’t be happy about it but what did they expect?
I would have thought that we would learn the lesson from France that you don’t solve a solvency crisis by doubling down on paying benefits you don’t have the money for.
No no no, you are misunderstanding their motives. Conservatives who run the show want a "K" shaped economy, with the middle class strangled out of existence. They really believe some people are inherently better than others. As such the lower classes don't deserve safety net programs or entitlements in their world view.
Siphoning off wealth from the working educated class who actually do work in the economy goes a long way to put them in their place, as they see it.
Then wages will go up and people will get rehired OR people will realize they arent as important as they think they are and companies will make do without.
A lot of the student loans in question are with Boomers however once they took out themselves or ones that took out on behalf of their children and yes they do garnish Social Security earnings.
It's funny how when it's something that would help a lot of people it's always "too complex" or "can't be done" but when it fucks over everyone and helps the rich we can get it done ASAP.
I was lucky in that I've done well saving money cause our fukn generation has been non stop working since we were 16 so I paid off my student loans as soon as this mid wit took office. I feel bad for people who are barely making it and now this shit govt thinks they are the target to make up their abysmal shortfall
Regardless of individual challenges/successes with payment, savings, and invome, the biggest problem here isn't an emotional one or a fairness/forgiveness issue.
At scale these loan payments and now possible garnished wages are a MASSIVE hit on economic movement and buying power for a huge part of the population.
-create vague reductive stances to appeal to uneducated voters
-lean in on values like "hard work", faith, racism, military might, hating academics, masculine/feminine gender roles and heterosexuality, etc etc etc
-win elections
-reduce taxes
-nuke government funding for everything (outside of military)
-funnel wealth to the top
-screw everything up for everyone but a tiny percentage of the population
-rinse/repeat
This kind of policy appeals to idiots who think they "did it the right way" and will happily show up to vote red to stop the libs from taking free money and spending it on expensive lattes, devils lettuce, expensive sneakers, abortions, you name it.
I wouldn’t necessarily say by design, but absolutely taking advantage of a bad situation. The government pulled back on funding for higher education and around the same time began to offer uncollateralized loans. This was meant to shore up the inevitably increased tuition cost that would arise with reduced government subsidy, but I don’t think the government realized that universities would exploit this by basically gouging tuition prices.
Where I think the intentionality starts is that we have failed to deliver on any solution. There’s nothing inherently wrong with getting a degree in art, but statistically it will earn less than a degree in computer science. There’s no reason that both degrees should cost the same, or for the government to loan out hundreds of thousands of dollars for a degree with so little chance of repayment.
It’s possible some of this is intentional, it’s true the elites prefer the masses uneducated, but it could also have been a byproduct of poor leadership and economic declines. Either way, the current predicament is definitely going to be a drag on the economy if people can’t consume because their wages are being garnished.
Maybe - it depends on how we want to define "by design". Banks and financial institutions/lenders like aggressively lobbied for government-backed uncollateralized knowing it would reduce their risk and enjoy increased interest payments. There isn't some sort of gathering of evil do-ers that control the world economy that mapped this out in their secret lair, but you better believe there were countless board room meetings at Fannie Mae etc on how to get these policies changed to increase their revenue and reduce their risk.
I can guarantee this proposed policy of garnishing wages for delinquent student loan payments was deliberately drawn up by political strategists to win votes. And the broader strategy that includes policies like this, and/or generating discussion about it amongst voters, is textbook right-wing populism and ultimately fascism.
It’s probably better to avoid paying and wait. Next president will probably fix them and the Supreme Court won’t be able to ruin it once it’s expanded.
Remember when Biden tried to forgive a shitload of student loans and the Republicans sued him into oblivion and the Supreme Court said Biden lacked the executive power to do it?
I remember the Supreme Court saying official acts by the president were immune from prosecution but specifically stated unofficial acts like assaulting someone, bribery, killing someone, etc. were not immune from prosecution and the office of the presidency does not provide a shield of cover.
Seems like as a politician the smart move would have been to support a policy that enough of your potential voters support if not doing it will lose you the election, instead of pandering to "moderate" republicans and hoping enough of them vote for you to make up the lost voters from your base.
I don't blame them, I blame Biden for endorsing a genocide. Maybe if he had held Israel to account even a little bit, Kamala might not have lost so many swing states.
it's worse than single issue voting. trump was still very obviously the worse candidate on Palestine too. you legitimately just have to be stupid and not understand how the potlical machine works to think voting against Trump by voting for Biden/Harris wasn't the obvious choice
I have been friends with a Lebanese person since high school who has been vocally anti Israel lng before most of these AHs paid a lick of attention. and as she said - at least we'll be able to safely organize under Harris. if we can get the numbers, they'll crack. but the Republicans will try to deport my family long before we get those numbers. they'd happily shit down the colleges entirely rather than let them host protests. it made NO sense to think Trump getting elected wasn't worse case scenario
you're either stupid or you were actively being lied to going into the election because Trump was the worst case scenario in every angle INCLUDING Palestine
Lots of people on the left don’t seem to understand that removing any incentive for elected officials to pursue and champion the policies they like by just declaring they’re outright ungettable votes on principle is a bad political strategy, because you’re just incentivizing them to cater to the parts of the electorate that are guaranteed to show up.
What do you call giving money and arms to a country committing a genocide? I call it endorsing a genocide. Was it dumb for people to vote against Biden, considering Trump wouldn't be any better on Israel? Yeah, but this is on Biden for failing to differentiate himself on a really morally obvious issue.
“Vote Democrat” is not the message I take away from that anecdote. Why should my tax dollars go to repay someone else’s debt? And why should the Supreme Court allow a president to give away government assets without Congressional approval? Now, my tax dollars go to a lot of things that don’t make sense, but most of those things have actually been approved by Congress.
So I just want to make sure I'm understanding you. The major factor that determines whether you are okay with wasteful spending is congressional approval. 40 trillion national debt is fine because Congress approved it?
No. I’m not ok with any wasteful congressional spending. But the Supreme Court can’t do anything about it. The Supreme Court, can, however, do something about wasteful spending that has not been authorized by Congress.
We have bankruptcy laws specifically to address these kinds of concerns, so I’m not sure what your point is. PPP loans were a wasteful mess that were regularly abused. They also had their forgiveness provisions baked in because they were not ever intended to be loans.
You already gift your tax dollars to a for profit healthcare system ranking last in the world amd most expensive along with companies like Amazon. Learn what velocity of money is. Money that is taken for these loans now will not go into the economy exasperating an already fragile situation that has now resulted in massive monopolization, high inflation amd higher cost of living. They're starving the beast and lastly why wouldn't you want to have policy that helps other people instead of business, industries and corporations that can easily afford it with profit margins in historic ranges? By the way Department of Education authorized the head and president to act in matter of those loans with how they see fit, a gerrymandered Supreme Court saw differently which I hope you can put two and two together.
That's not how student loan forgiveness works. Your tax dollars are not paying for anyone's debts, the federal government is simply forgiving the debts that they already own.
I guess the fair argument I heard about the situation was that no one on the education side could account for the 10-20x inflation in education costs in the past 40 years to prove they weren’t in cahoots with the lenders. Essentially operating a scheme to be predatory, students incentivized to take out bigger loans, tuition (and admin costs) continues to rise. Instead of being $6800 for an undergrad, it’s $90,000.
Well, I have already paid over 120% of what I borrowed and will still be paying for the next 8 years. But yeah, “forgiving” the balance of my debt is you paying my debt. Bullshit.
>Now, my tax dollars go to a lot of things that don’t make sense, but most of those things have actually been approved by Congress.
That's weird, I could swear we are in a war with Iran that Congress has never declared or funded. The Iran war since March could have paid off 31.14% of all private student loan debt in the County and we would still have cheaper fuel, fertilizer, and rare mineral prices.
As a student loan borrower, I actually resent the Biden admin's take on student loans. It was naive to think forgiving those loans wouldn't be challenged and it only created a total sh*t show that continues to present day for millions of borrowers.
This will technically reduce inflation by reducing the amount of money people have to spend on things like housing. However it will likely hit low spenders the hardest so may not have material inflation reduction and it will likely cause more issues by making people poorer.
Yea this is how you actually get disinflation. Defaults mean money is being destroyed, vanished into nothingness. The definitional opposite of inflation
What a total 100% scam. The smug look on the faces of those above, all say the same thing. I am an entitled as*hole and I couldn't care less who knows. About 90% of those loans were predator in nature and forced on to children by their parents.
I wanted to edit this to say... If a company requires a college education for a job, then they are the ones responsible for paying the loans.
Just so you are aware. The reporter likely didn't read the headline to the people in the image above and then snap the shot of the image as their "reaction". The image and the headline likely have nothing to do with one another. The reporting agency used both the headline and the image to ignite the very feeling you are feeling inside you. Not that your opinion is wrong or unwarranted, but it seems that your line " The smug look on the faces of those above, all say the same thing. I am an entitled as*hole and I couldn't care less who knows." Is implying you think that was the case here.
Duh... Just what I need, someone explaining how articles and stories are written. My feelings weren't a reaction to the story, the story was the reaction to the I have felt for decades, average Americans are just catching up.
We really need to decide if they were an adult when they took the loan or not. We can't just sometimes hold 18 yr old individuals accountable as an adult, and not at other times.
And furthermore it is not as if these loans are taken in one big lump sum. They are taken out each year of schooling. So the first loan was taken out at 18, the second loan at 19, the third loan at 20, and the fourth loan at 21. And if they go for a masters it might be 22 and 23, well into adulthood. Every summer is an opportunity for them to evaluate if it is worth continuing and taking on more debt.
Yeah, just look at your bills and quit. That's why America gets so many medical professionals from India because we can't actually graduate any of our own.
No, let's stop pushing predatory loans on someone who can't even buy a beer. How about we make loans that aren't predatory, for example.
We get foreign doctors because we don't have enough residencies available to meet the need of training new doctors. What you're describing, really isn't what's happening.
In some cases absolutely yes. That is the dose of reality they need. Especially if their grades indicate they are mediocre.
> That's why America gets so many medical professionals from India because we can't actually graduate any of our own.
It's weird how we bring up doctors as if most of them went to be a doctor. Nurses are being hired quite rapidly right now they're doing fine.
> That's why America gets so many medical professionals from India
Part of why we bring people in is that wealthy and educated people don't have enough kids to replace themselves. Part of it is because Indians don't demand absurd pay.
Nurses don't have the authority to diagnose. And don't you think it's a problem that the only concern is that RICH PEOPLE aren't having kids? Fuck the poors, right? The rich kids are the only ones that matter.
Pell grant provides $7300 per year. And they'll give that to you for like 6 years. Plus most states also have their own tuition program to apply for along with other merit-based grants from private entities including the college itself.
Predatory? This is always such nonsense. It's not like signing up for a credit to get a t-shirt. You go through a pretty long process to actually get the loans where the interest rates and repayment plans are clearly stated.
The issue that people don't actually care about that or think about the debt until the bill comes due.
I went to college for a little over a year. Never got a degree and dropped out before I wasted anymore money. With child support and tax deductions I only bring home 600 a week. If they garnish my wages, I can't make it. I'm barely making it now. I pinch pennies everywhere I can, and still can't save a dime. What am I supposed to do?
Just like everyone else currently and always throughout history. You deal with the cumulative consequences of the series of choices you've made throughout your life.
You chose to go to college, you chose to drop out, you chose to have a child. Maybe you'll argue some of the decisions weren't your fault or beyond your control.
You'd be wrong.
College = paying for it
Dropping out = less career opportunities and less money on average
Kid = paying for it
Not being primary caregiver = child support
Choices and consequences are all we have. You chose an action (or chose lack of action) and now you have consequences.
Make better choices going forward and the consequences for those choices get better.
Or continue to be a victim to your bad choices and give up any control you have in your life.
Becoming a more productive member of society shouldn't be punished. Education (even if you didn't get the paper) makes you more productive. Having a kid is literally investing productivity in the future. From a disgusting numbers viewpoint, these things should be encouraged. From a humanity standpoint, these things should also be encouraged.
Education doesn't automatically make people more productive, and we do encourage people to have kids, with things like tax credits and the like. We shouldn't be encouraging anyone to have a kid at any time, especially when they can't afford it
Welcome to trumps America. This is the country you voted for, America. Where the rich can do anything they want and you’re gonna pay for it. You will suffer and they will flourish.
I sure wish they'd put this kind of energy on actually doing their job with what's in front of them. Having a student loan right now is a f*cking nightmare and it's criminal the way FSA and the loan servicers are handling them.
For example:
- not processing repayment plan change requests. I waited 18 months and had to submit 5 requests to get moved out of SAVE and back into IBR. I first submitted Oct 2024. I literally just made my first payment last month. WTF.
- not processing buyback requests for those in PSLF (it's taking 1-2 years for these to get processed)
- taking autopayments twice out of peoples accounts. Good luck getting that extra payment back in a timely fashion.
- not taking autopayments at all and then marking the borrower "late" because there is zero grace period. Not even 24 hours. Despite the fact it's on the servicer for not pulling the autopayment.
- payments made are disappearing and being marked "late"
- not updating PSLF qualifying payment counts
- when you call MOHELA, expect hold times of up to 3-4 hours with zero resolution of the issue THEY caused.
I once made a $1900 payment to pay off one of my loans. This would've have zeroed it out. The next day it disappeared. It was over a week and a half before it was resolved. That whole time they are adding interest to the total amount due DAILY.
I could go on and on and on....
And blaming this all on a "glitch". They got more "glitches" than Glitch McConnell. I'm calling it willful incompetence. Because this isn't all by accident, it's all by design.
Debts need to be repaid unless your a farmer. Then you could be a millionaire AND keep slave labor via the h1b program AND get assistance thats either very deferred or with no payment plan at all!
Then we'll have lots of farmers and no doctors. Great if you love long waits to see your overworked primary care doctor whose working for Medicares bread crumbs of a reimbursement.
The student loan game needs to be sorted. This is the ugly way. The debt was taken out, it needs to be repaid. Better would be hard capping student loans at lower levels and let the education complex drown if they don’t want to come down to earth.
No. This isn’t an issue of “colleges pay too much for stuff so they charge exorbitant rates”. This is an issue of States have been dramatically underfunding public colleges since the 80s. Funding needs to be restored. Boomers had the benefit, in the 60s and 70s, of colleges that were like 90-95% paid for by state taxes. Gen X like 65%. Today it’s like 20%. Yeah, there may be some minor savings in capping the amount of non-teaching administrators but those savings would be a drop in the bucket and would not meaningfully lower college tuition rates.
Right wing media has you amped up about the wrong thing.
And since state funding was cut the colleges also cut back on spending, trying their best to keep the core parts of liberal education while dealing with dramatically decreased funding. Education got less pretty, but we tried our best to still educate people and help them develop into well rounded people. That's why student to professor ratios have gotten so much worse, and professor pay declined.
Wait, no, actually they just raised tuition/fees. Some people then took on more debt to pay that increased tuition cost. The ratio and professor pay parts did get worse though, on top of shifting the cost.
We just let the students take out all that debt, and made it exceptionally difficult for them to get out of it (compared to other debts).
Average tuition net of aid and grants at in-state universities $2300 a year. If you live in driving distance you can get a bachelors degree for under $10k.
>This is an issue of States have been dramatically underfunding public colleges since the 80s. Funding needs to be restored.
I agree states need to restore funding of higher education, but this is only possible because of guaranteed federal student loans where the federal government pays the balance. The cost of college today (not just the sticker price) is significantly higher than it was 40 years ago
That’s kind of what’s already happening with current and prospective college students. Everyone now knows going into $50k+ debt for a bachelors degree is insane unless you are at a top 10 school or dead set on being a doctor. Even just 5-10 years ago it was still defensible for most schools, but not anymore. Enrollment is already dropping at many colleges and universities and I expect we’ll see a few go under in the next 5 years.
I'd pay mine back if they kept me at the reasonable payments. But no, they kicked me off that plan and expect a grand a month. Just garnish me, it'll be less.
It won’t though… they garnish at 15%, and will tack on court fees. My payment for SAVE has gone up about $500 and I’m now expected to pay like $1450 a month for any PSLF plan, (which conveniently is also now paid in full like 2 months before I’d get PSLF). Buuut wage garnishment (for me) is the same fucking payment, only with ruined credit, inability to ever borrow again, and whatever court fees they tack on… there’s no escape (at least until a new admin)
They want to garnish wages so the younger generation sees military enlistment as a necessity. After all the GOP & Israel are pushing for student debt forgiveness as a benefit of enlistment.
Over and over you talk to anyone and they're paying interest, having paid off the actual loan years ago. Student loan debt is a neverending racket if you don't get it paid off right away which good luck as a student with no experience in this economy.
There is an interest rate deduction of 1% right now if you auto pay. I will say, even 1%, has been pretty impactful and has helped me start chipping away at some principal and reduce the ever increasing interest balance.
Massive loans can be allowed at any age provided they can be discharged through bankruptcy. The type of loans we give students now.. I feel like at least being 21 would give kids a few more years of living in the real world to understand the implications on a loan you can never get rid of will have on their lives.
Easy to say, but kids are being told their whole life that they need to go to college after high school to get a good career. High school especially has so many programs that assume you're going move on to college. SATs, ACTs, AP courses, etc. They're not going to be thinking too much about the financials of such a decision when they're 18, they're going to want the best college they can get.
Seems like the comments related to indentured servitude were relevant to this administration but it was directed to enough of the population. lol things feel bleak. This is coming from someone with no student loan debt but a degree :/
Anyone else starting to feel like they want us all to become slaves? There hasn't been a single action taken by this administration that benefits the working class or poor.
Well, as we all know, 12 years of publicly funded education is capitalism, but 16 years of publicly funded education is filthy communism.
I have to add extra words because making a point succinctly is also filthy communism. Oatmeal raisn cookies? Believe it or not, filthy communism. Not trial, no nothing, just filthy communism.
The oatmeal raisin analogy hits even better. Because them mother fuckers trick you into thinking they are chocolate chip. Just like all this communism. One second you think you're about to take a nice bite of capitalism and then, BAM, EAT THAT COMMUNISM BITCH!
Some asshole took a delicious grape that could have been used to make amazing wine and instead was like: Fuck that, let's shrivel this up in the sun so that only the worst parts are left. And do you know why? That fucker just wanted to trick little boys into eating hot garbage. May he forever walk around barefoot in a dark room full of legos.
Someone I know with a Ph.D. just re-enrolled as a bachelor's student for forbearance because paying for tuition is cheaper than her student loan payments, lol.
Death is the primary means of escape. She's on PSLF technically but the minimum payments just aren't manageable, even on the supposedly most "affordable" plan. You underestimate the willingness of people to simply wait out death or seek it first.
The idea is that college has become unfairly expensive and wages and job opportunities have not kept up with the outrageous cost of going to college. The argument is if banks and airlines and auto companies get bailed out for their shitty choices why can't we bail out the entire generation saddled with absurd amounts of debt that they can never hope to pay off when the shitty choice they made was, apparently, getting an education.
The job of every generation is to make them care, even if we have to drag them kicking and screaming to the realization that once again no, we won't be feudal serfs.
In-state tuition for public universities and community colleges is still affordable. Needs and merit based scholarships abound.
> job opportunities have not kept up
This is entirely dependent on the degree. It's true that some degrees have a terrible ROI when it comes to job prospects. People aren't being very wise in choosing to pursue those degrees, if they also couldn't afford tuition.
>banks and airlines and auto companies
They employ people and contribute to the economy. A 23-year-old with a communications degree does not.
You are never going to be a billionaire and you're probably never going to be a millionaire. Stop parotting the party line of the ruling class that you'll never be a part of.
It’s sad that people like you pay all that money for college and still come out spouting dumb shit like this. You could’ve just saved the tuition and spent your time on TikTok and Reddit if this was going to be your educational ceiling anyway.
I am a millionaire (barely) and one who paid for his own college tuition via work and scholarships. I'm not parroting anyone. I'm telling you that I'm not interested in paying off your loan with my tax dollars.
My repayment options just got gutted by the federal government. I was eligible for 7 payment plans. After MAGA forcing the OBBB, I am only eligible for 3 and one of those is just the 10 year standard plan.
And with normal loans you are eligible for only one repayment plan. It is called the 'f you pay me' plan.
> I am only eligible for 3 and one of those is just the 10 year standard plan.
You should be eligible for up to 7: ICR, PAYE, RAP, IBR, standard, graduated, extended. However, PAYE and ICR are getting phased out in 2028 (as things stand now) but you can stay on them until that point. PAYE was also restricted based on other criteria. You need to have had a balance above a certain amount to be eligible for graduated and extended
Normal loans wouldnt unilaterally alter my payment plan without additional consideration.
The proper way to have handled this would have been to grandfather the 7 plans that existed pre-OBBB and only allow for RAP, Standard, and New IBR after OBBB. This is the first time Congress has actually made plans worse for the average borrower.
You think all loans should work the same with the same conditions? Then why can't students discharge student debt in bankruptcy like everyone else can?
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> Literally every loan granted operates this way.
Really? I can declare bankruptcy and get out from under other loans. Can't do that with student loans. So no, every other loan granted DOESN'T operate that way, does it?
Also, pretty much no other type of loan allows the lender to change the terms after the deal has been done. But student loans most certainly do.
If we passed a law that made student loans like all other loans, the problem would fix itself. Lenders would also stop giving out unsecured student loans, which would force universities to really look at their fiscal viability. It would also force the government to come up with a solution that makes education more affordable.
The student voluntarily take out a loan and gets something of value (money) and then ideally spends it on something and gets something of value (a college degree).
That's not indentured servitude; those are just the terms. Don't like it? Don't take out the loan. But to your point, I would be in favor of not giving loans in the first place, if the person is seen as high risk of not paying it back. Like how every other loan works.
I mean, there is no way to underwrite that. The entire industry would collapse because no one would qualify. I do think loans over a certain amount should have some minimum collateral requirements.
> The entire industry would collapse because no one would qualify.
Colleges and organizations give money to qualified students in the form of grants and scholarships. Are you telling me that a bank wouldn't give a loan to a good student going into high ROI major?
Schools give grants and scholarships to promising students across a range of disciplines, including in the arts and humanities, usually due to an endowment and/or to boost the school's prestige. The ROI on that investment is nonmonetary. There is no sure bet in any major. And we are only going to support, as a country, a certain segment of jobs? Yeah, that'd be great for the economy...
You’re missing the other side of the risk equation…
One one hand you have the borrowers ; who will in aggregate demonstrate higher default rates if they’re higher risk. On the other side; the product or service being financed should also be underwritten and risk criteria applied to it as well…
Things gets messier when you take into account that the education system has created induced demand for education through crdentjalism …
The repayment terms of my loans have changed significantly. The repayment plan I had planned on is gone, it was in existence when I signed my promissory note. How many other loans can have the repayment plans totally restructured without consideration?
Kinda with you and kinda not. I do think they should allowed to be discharged in BK. The government should also subsidize the loans at a low rate and allow borrowers to refi into the lower rate. Ofc, can't do that now given the cost of capital/interest rates. My rate was 2.25% a quarter century ago. If the orange turd had gotten it done in his first term, he might have earned some political capital.
Good garnish them wages. A debt is a debt I’m sorry you signed the contract and feel like it should be excused. I could see maybe the contract being reviewed and reduced but nothing in life is free.
nothing in life is free unless you're corrupt enough, then everything can be free
but for real, this isn't a good take, these debts weren't signed off for a home or something, it was for secondary education, which shouldn't be accessible only to the wealthy.
if something is subject to a fine (or in this case, requiring a loan), then it only affects the poor.
And a home should be accessible only to the wealthy? How does not collecting on debts already incurred for services already rendered help bring down the cost of education?
false equivocation - education is not a durable good like a house. much like healthcare, you cannot commodify these things and have a functioning society.
'look, my irish immigrant grandparents made it in america - so shut up already' isn't the flex you think it is, and ignores the reality of things now vs decades ago.
Seriously … this subreddit is called economics. Is this very subreddit telling me there are no consequences for choices and student loans should just be forgiven? Then there is no point to this subreddit.
When are our people going to learn…STOP TAKING OUT GIANT LOANS TO GO TO EXPENSIVE COLLEGES. The sub Reddit I frequent every now and then someone asks “is it worth going $50,000 in debt for this program?” NO!!!! There are cheaper ways!
Return things to the way that they were, and make student loan debts dischargeable by bankruptcy, and a lot of these problems will be greatly reduced. When someone makes a risky bet and loans money that is not returned, then that is simply a risk they have to accept. Ever since they changed the rules and made it impossible to discharge student loan debt, the lenders can lend to anyone and in any amount that they want and effectively get a lifetime of free money in the form of interest in return.
Lol let them try, garnishing millions of people’s wages when they’re already unable to afford paying for shit is never gonna work. You’d cause an economic collapse.
About time. Too many are treating student loan repayment as optional. The biggest detriment, so far, is a drop in credit score while saving hundreds if not thousands per month.
I question the assumption that everyone not paying their student loans are in some type of financial hardship. The same way people who make 300k live paycheck to paycheck. Questionable. Some just refuse to adjust and they won’t do so until they’re forced.
IMO, it’s unfair for Bobby to reduce his expenses to repay his loan while Emma pockets her monthly payment and puts it toward a European vacation. I’m sure this will be controversial on reddit.
Nice strawman. Yeah everyone not able to pay their loans is taking European vacations. Makes total sense. This wouldn't be an issue at all if the one's in financial hardship could take care of it in bankruptcy. You just want slaves back.
I don’t know about European vacations, but a _lot_ of Gen Z are prioritizing travel and similar doom spending, which is just lighting money on fire with nothing to show for it except maybe some pics.
Somehow people took the temporary covid reprieve on student loans as a new baseline, and reconfigured their spending habits as if those payments would never come back. It’s certainly a factor.
Terrible lies building up fake strawman. Travel and luxury spending is falling off a cliff for Gen Z. Where are you getting your lies from? You should disconnect from that source.
Gen Z spend less than X and Boomers on travel. They are not going to Europe. Your article doesn't say much of anything. So I looked it up for you. You're welcome. Also vacation travel is down significantly across the board for all generations this year. Get rekt.
That is because gen z is working with a smaller baseline discretionary income than boomers and gen x. But in proportion to their discretionary income, gen z spends the most of any generation.
Dude, stop doubling down. I've proven my point. Gen Z is not refusing to make student loan payments to go on trips to Europe. I'm not sure what you are lying in defense of.
Gen Z spends 8% of discretionary income on travel. The other Gens each spend 10%.
I don’t know why people bring this up like it is a valid zinger. Pretty much no one is in favor of the PPP loans. Maybe except the recipients. But this kind of stuff makes people mad for the most part, just like the bailouts in 2008 did.
But besides that, the debt incurred by things like the PPP, amplified by rising interest rates, means there is less money available to do things like forgive loans today. In fact, more than ever, it makes us have to collect on those loans, including through garnishment. We’re borrowing like $2 trillion a year, and the fallout for that is going to eventually come ij the form of large inflation, a depression, or similar. Racking up more debt by something like forgiveness of loans would make the eventual outcome even worse.
Really? The line I always here is "We were told we wouldn't have to pay the PPP loans back. And so we all took them not expecting to every pay them." As if that makes it better.
And yes, typically by the same class of people complaining about student loans. Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it's not part of the discourse. Makes me wonder why the business class was offered giveaways in the guise of loans... Maybe because they knew they had to lie to the public to get us to buy off on it? Rules for thee, not for me
Well, well when those are the exact people who steered the ship into the iceberg in the first place, then push everybody aside to get to the front of the line, they shouldn't be surprised when the rest of the passengers decide that they're going to have something to say about that.
Then why not sit back and stfu about something that could benefit the economy as a whole instead of going “well if they took them out they should pay”. Boomers act like we took out loans to take vacations only when we were told, go to school, you level up. Well, COVID hit when the majority of us were graduating THEN after COVID, possibly the worst job markets ever. So what are the options? Most people with degrees, aren’t even working in their fields.
So make matters worse? For what? What is garnishing money from an already struggling demographic going to serve? People talk about not being able to afford groceries as is, I’m sure garnishing wages won’t help afford groceries.
I graduated high school into 9/11 and college right before the Great Recession, so my run was way worse than what Gen Z faced recently. But you know what happens? Eventually economic conditions change, the business cycle propagates, jobs reappear. By 2020, the market was so starved for labor that they were offering signing bonuses for fast food jobs and people were getting high-paying white collar jobs without degrees. These things ebb and flow. You will have many good economic times, and bad, throughout your life.
You don’t need to have a job in your field to benefit from a college education. There are many jobs out there that just require a college degree of some kind, and more jobs still that do not technically require a degree but benefit a lot from having one.
But no, forgiveness would not benefit the economy. It would make it substantially worse.
Because bond rates are climbing and the deficit is $2 trillion. We are currently paying more in debt repayments than the defense budget, just to give a sense or scale. Bond rates will continue to rise until we establish a better fiscal balance. Some of that will not come until we get a new administration, and even then it’s a “maybe.” But another way to do that is by improving revenues, and garnishment does that.
Real bad take, man. Sure, there may be some percent of this population that is taking advantage. But reality is you can only cut your expenses so far. Housing, transportation, insurance, food, and medical care wipes out most of the average graduates paycheck. Look at the prices of everything then look at the averages wages people are making and just do basic math. The working class is getting squeezed from every single angle.
And while you personally may delight in the idea of garnishing the wages of millions of underpaid and overclocked working class people, that will send even more negative shockwaves through and already sketchy economy. People can't spend what they don't have. And when consumers are forced to pay loans rather than buy groceries or fix their broken cars, the entire economy takes a hit.
This is a problem that is much larger than "just pay back the loans," and it will affect everyone whether you agree with it or not.
Graduates are not working class, they are middle class. The working class got jobs right out of high school.
And no, evidently, if the lower socioeconomic classes are squeezed, they do not send shockwaves through the community. It is big business to take advantage of poor people. It’s more expensive to be poor than middle class. The debt and piecemeal purchasing habits are profitable. Meanwhile, they have no stocks to sell, so even if they go bankrupt it doesn’t affect the market. The wealth effect created by quickly rising market gains causes the wealthy to spend more and more-than-compensates for the struggles of the poor. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but just describing it how it is.
"The working class consists of people who earn their living through wages or salaries, generally performing manual, service, or administrative labor rather than relying on investment income or owning large business assets"
The working class is a euphemism for the uneducated class. Trump slipped up once saying, “I love the uneducated,” but as you can see, that does not sound very nice. But people take pride in their work, so more refined politicians call uneducated people the working class. In contrast, the ticket into the middle class is a college education. There are lower, middle, and upper middle class sub-sections, based on a variety of factors including salary, prestige, and level of education. The upper class is defined by people who make most of their income from investments, and can subsist on that investment income alone if need be. It is broken into two groups, the lower-upper and upper-upper classes. The lower-upper class is people who rose up into it within their own lifetimes. These are people like Steve Jobs. The upper-upper class were born into wealth, and often have perspectives that are alien to the other classes, even the lower-upper class.
So it sounds like you’ve bought into the propaganda that there is a difference between laborers that make minimum wage and laborers that make over $100k a year. You’re a “useful idiot” for using that investor class’ framing, assuming you aren’t independently wealthy living off a trust fund.
A person can be working class even if they are a neurosurgeon making $800k a year or a bagger making $15,080. “Middle Class People” may want to feel like they are somehow a “better” person because they drive a better car and make more than the guy sacking their groceries, but both of them depend on labor to earn wages, versus the investor class who own things and don’t have to labor to earn money to live.
Media and corporations have been using the “middle class” framing to separate those higher paid laborers from the working poor so they won’t realize their shared circumstances and act as one body politically.
No, this wasn’t from propaganda, it was from lecture notes. There are many differences between the social classes aside from income, and working class can make more than middle class in many cases.
Back up your claim. Show the reports that demonstrate that there is an egregious number of people gaming the financial aid system in the way that you claim.
You can probably drum up an anecdote or two to confirm your bias against borrowers and poor people, but you’re ignoring the bigger picture of defaulted borrowers. Who are “more likely than non-defaulted borrowers to have a dependent child (51% vs. 26%), be a single parent (20% vs. 8%), be a first-generation student (47% vs. 30%), have attended a for-profit institution (45% vs. 17%), have not completed their program of study (49% vs. 23%), and have less than $10,000 in debt (52% vs. 38%).”*
If you really think your silly examples of Bobby and Emma are representative borrowers, then you’re genuinely stupid.
300k living paycheck to paycheck is very different than someone living 60k paycheck to paycheck. Not all degrees provide the same amount of job security, some people can’t get jobs in their field, some can barely get hired.
And if someone is making 300k living paycheck to paycheck, their priorities are fucked up and deserve to get garnished wages
Statistically speaking , do you think the “poor money manager” who makes $300k a year but isn’t paying their student loan is the median person in this scenario?
I’m sure it was just an extreme example, but I’d assume that the median would be around 100k given that Emma can afford an overseas trip. Regardless, the cost of living has skyrocketed, most jobs aren’t accommodating for the rising costs, and most college graduates are probably nowhere near close to comfortable salary ranges
It will and that isn't discussed enough. That technically college educated people make more money. They took these loans on voluntarily while others didn't. The ends result of any college loan forgiveness will be inevitable inflation by the government printing more money to service that unbacked debt.
The people who are drowning in debt not making enough to pay it back are those who took classes with no team economic end goal. These classes get government support such as social and artistic classes but don't necessarily offer a lot of economic value. While these should exist they shouldn't get unnecessary subsidies on excess of they actual economic impact.
But more importantly we need changes to better educate young people before taking on excess debt as well as reforms to hold schools accountable if they accept federal loans.
Is there a belief that you can borrow cash and not pay it back? I know that they targeted specific people, but how’s that different than other group of financial profiteers. How should we communicate with smooth-brained individuals about adult commitments.
hoodozhnik | 5 hours ago
You can't get blood from a stone, Boomers. You want your social security checks? You want your free healthcare? You better pray the youth has some money to give.
Imagine if the US put this amount of effort and enforcement to tax fraud or literally anything else.
fiveswords | 5 hours ago
How about arresting pedophiles in the epstein files?
hsvgamer199 | 5 hours ago
No can do but we can have more tax cuts for the 1% and more wars!
CautiousOptimism09 | 5 hours ago
Best i can do is another forever war in the middle east
pan-re | 4 hours ago
Go fight for Russia, Israel and Republicans and you get student loan debt erased!
planetes2020 | 4 hours ago
But only if you pay the difference as income tax, otherwise that's just free money!
Tea-acH-Cee | 3 hours ago
And the fighting only counts if we declare war. Death during minor military operations/conflicts/peace operations/training disqualifies you from these and all other benefits.
dust4ngel | an hour ago
> How about arresting pedophiles in the epstein files?
are you an anarchist? if we get rid of the pedos, we'll be missing half of the federal government.
No-Rutabaga-6678 | 6 minutes ago
Probably more...and it's needed. I'm sick of people who see sht but don't say sht. They're just as culpable, get em gone.
space_force_majeure | 4 hours ago
Best we can do is have Vivek Ramaswamy run a huge ad campaign in favor of pedophiles
Gvillegator | 4 hours ago
Those are the same people wanting to garnish the wages of student loan holders
nintendork4 | 5 hours ago
Stop voting them into office then
East-Ice-3199 | 3 hours ago
We didn’t, Elon hired Edward Coristine to hack the voting machines for him.
Erik8world | 5 hours ago
You spelled public execution of pedophiles by firing squad wrong
makemeking706 | 5 hours ago
Arrest the president? Where is Sam Vimes when you need him?
jsc1429 | 5 hours ago
But then they couldn’t steal your wages! Why would you do this to them!?!?!?
kojimep | 5 hours ago
Plenty of reports show that it would cost the IRS pennies for each dollar they'd earn auditing the 1%, but they'll never do that
BrogenKlippen | 5 hours ago
The federal government in its current form is failing. It doesn’t know how to help its people with any of the things meaningful to them and is concerned with foreign wars, AI, ballrooms, and grift.
It’s not a mechanism to help people but rather just to punish based on who holds the reins to power.
letsago9987 | 3 hours ago
i hope the burn is fast. i want to have some sort of joy at the end of my life.
AthleteAlternative44 | 4 hours ago
Let’s not forget all the fraud in Minnesota. Enough to keep social security solvent for quite some time
Ponce_the_Great | 2 hours ago
This is objectively false bot
Fraud is bad but the feeding our futures fraud was small change compared with social security
wheatoplata | 4 hours ago
How about arresting employers that hire illegal immigrants?
dust4ngel | an hour ago
fastest way to expand what qualifies as legal immigration ever conceived.
TastyJournalist8451 | 3 hours ago
u don't know what wage garnishing is then. If you have a job and loans it will just show up like a tax does
euro127 | 5 hours ago
Boomers pulled up the ladder behind them then blame us for not working hard enough. I cannot wait for the boomers to die off so we can finally start voting for policies that help the masses rather then the incumbent boomers
WantCookiesNow | 5 hours ago
Sadly, you’re going to have to wait for my generation (GenX) as well. I’m saddened by what my generation has become. Bunch of right wing Trump supporters.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/voting-patterns-in-the-2024-election/
BroughtBagLunchSmart | 3 hours ago
The way GenX sided with boomers over millennials was something else. Sorry you didn't ever learn you could just say no to them but you don't have to take it out on us.
Known-Dependent-5471 | 4 hours ago
And by then we won't be far behind 😭
euro127 | 5 hours ago
Here's hoping the millennials can fix our broken system otherwise were fucked
WantCookiesNow | 4 hours ago
Thankfully they’re a huge cohort, and have had constant challenges throughout early adulthood - from the 2008 economic crisis to Covid to current day, it’s been one struggle after another. I know many of them are doing fine, but hoping there’s enough empathy among those who want political office to drive change.
DiceNinja | 4 hours ago
Not all of us, but too goddamn many.
Boo-Bees67 | 2 hours ago
You sound like every YouTube video made. Get off the iPad
euro127 | 46 minutes ago
Ok boomer
Black-Thunderbird | 11 minutes ago
Nope. That don’t work this time.
Econmajorhere | 4 hours ago
I think about this a ton - what happens when boomers actually begin to exit. And the sad realization I’ve had is, they hoard most of the wealth. A good chunk will go towards medical expenses/care for them in old age but the remainder will get passed down to their kids. This is many trillions in aggregate.
While these kids might not align politically with their parents, when staring at a life changing inheritance- I expect them to continue the same patterns of selfishness and rigging the system in their own favor.
There is already an abundance of this in the online influencer world. As someone who travels a lot, I see these people in all the hotspots making videos on “you can live like this if you buy my course” and I know 100% their family owns a mansion back in Orange County in California.
People are selfish by nature and most inheriting wealth who might not even have real jobs will see that inheritance as their only opportunity. They will do their best to not let it slip.
letsago9987 | 3 hours ago
they'll get scammed outta their wealth. most of it won't go to their children.
Econmajorhere | 3 hours ago
Curious to hear why you think so.
letsago9987 | 3 hours ago
well it's already happening. they're falling for AI scams left and right. They're gonna be throwing money away on things to help their end of life. The system doesn't want their wealth transferring to their kids. They want to suck that supply out of the economy and keep us poors poor.
MrMacduggan | 2 hours ago
I think it's easy to underestimate just how hard it is to throw away the amount of wealth these boomers have accumulated. They have so much wealth.
Draoken | 22 minutes ago
Most small time wealth is lost within 2 generations. We can talk shit about boomers all we want, but the boomers who were able to gain all that and keep a hold of it are on a completely different level than trust fund ipad babies
letsago9987 | 2 hours ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe3Gx5gThak&t=305s
https://www.instagram.com/reels/DdRjOr5Cpsy/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGfOSJ40HnI
these are just some examples what the boomers are being fed. lot of these maga scum boomers aren't gonna leave their kids money if they don't align politically. these people are scum.
ShitDollop | 41 minutes ago
End of life care. Even though redditors think boomers are rolling but many if not most just aren’t. Wealthy boomers already have trusts set up and that money has been slowly moved to their kids and grandkids. The bulk will lose most of their remaining “wealth” paying for medical costs and end of life care.
https://finance.yahoo.com/economy/articles/great-wealth-transfer-not-kids-152000768.html
letsago9987 | 3 hours ago
why don't we simply throw them into the sea? serious. if we got rid of 100% of boomers today, society would be a lot better off. they lived a good life. time to go.
morbie5 | 5 hours ago
> Imagine if the US put this amount of effort and enforcement to tax fraud or literally anything else.
Student loan wage garnishments have been on hold since COVID, you can't say the same about 'tax fraud or literally anything else'
I bet when everything is added up, the student loan parts of all the COVID relief will end up costing the most. People haven't had to do an IDR income recertification in about 5 years and they got over 3 years of a payment pause that counted towards forgiveness, including counting towards PSLF
Downvote the truth if you please
Lousk | 4 hours ago
Policy has shifted multiple times since Covid relief with the most recent significant shift coming from Trump’s OBBBA.
Student loans under OBBBA were supposed to be a spending offset for the corporate tax cuts that were also incorporated in the same bill. Instead it’s so far increased default rates by ~10.5% and reduced access to higher education.
It’s a bit early to say for sure the impacts of this will have on the macro level, but I’m sure many economists will agree that a less educated population that’s straddled with debt that cannot be paid back is a bad thing.
morbie5 | 3 hours ago
> Student loans under OBBBA were supposed to be a spending offset for the corporate tax cuts that were also incorporated in the same bill
That is BS government accounting, the federal student loan program was losing money before OBBB and will continue to loss money after OBBB
> Instead it’s so far increased default rates by ~10.5% and reduced access to higher education.
People are only getting forced off the SAVE forbearance as of the last couple of weeks, so it is too early to say what is causing the increased default rates.
> but I’m sure many economists will agree that a less educated population that’s straddled with debt that cannot be paid back is a bad thing.
Many economists will also argue that unlimited borrowing ability contributed to the explosive growth in higher education costs and they will also argue that plenty of degrees are not marketable and should be eliminated or severely restricted. So at a minimum this system is a very wasteful and inefficient way to get an 'educated population'
Lousk | 3 hours ago
You’re misinformed. For a student loan to be considered in default, it has to be 270 days past the scheduled payment date. Default rates have increased to ~10.5% even before the 10/13 ‘deadline’ and forbearance ended.
Defaults can be directly attributed to tighter forbearance rules, higher monthly obligation baselines under RAP, and the return of standard credit reporting/collections for delinquent accounts.
This is all directly attributable to the current administration. And defaults will of course continue to increase after this round of forbearance ends.
morbie5 | 3 hours ago
> You’re misinformed
No, you are misinformed. No one was forced off the SAVE forbearance until very recently, so any sort of default rate increasing has nothing to do with OBBB changes as of now That may be different in the coming months but as of now it isn't true
> higher monthly obligation baselines under RAP
RAP was only implemented this past July and no one was forced on to it.
> and the return of standard credit reporting/collections for delinquent accounts.
That has nothing to do with OBBB and collections haven't even been restarted yet. Further, not reporting the default rate accurately doesn't actually change the default rate. The default rate was still the same, it just wasn't being reported.
Lousk | 2 hours ago
There’s more than one type of forbearance friend. And not every borrower was on the SAVE plan.
OBBBA changed the policy rules and repayment structures just as millions of borrowers were struggling to resume payments. Many of those changes went into effect during the summer of 2025 when the bill was signed.
lazerpants | 3 hours ago
You realize you can just look up the costs, right?
And you would lose your bet. PPP loan forgiveness cost $763B, student loan deferment costs are estimated at $210B (2020-2023). So let's be generous and say there was an ongoing cost that doubled the original cost of student loan deferment. PPP forgiveness was still outrageously expensive above and beyond whatever student loan policies cost.
morbie5 | 3 hours ago
> And you would lose your bet
I wouldn't tho
> student loan deferment costs are estimated at $210B (2020-2023).
The student loan COVID era relief is still going on to this day. That is why I said 'when everything is added up'
> So let's be generous and say there was an ongoing cost that doubled the original cost of student loan deferment.
I'd say it'll be upwards of $700 to 800 billion in cost when you factor in everything, including the fact people have not had to do an income recertification in over 5 years. Then add in the biden one time account adjustment. There are doctors that are getting hundred in thousands in forgiveness they otherwise would not be but for the COVID payment pause and the IDR recertification pause
lazerpants | 3 hours ago
Actual evidence/number > "trust me bro"
morbie5 | 3 hours ago
'So let's be generous and say there was an ongoing cost that doubled the original cost of student loan deferment.'
That sounds a lot like "trust me bro"
thekidwiththefa | 40 minutes ago
> There are doctors that are getting hundred in thousands [sic] in forgiveness they otherwise would not
Doctors deserve full forgiveness for everything they dealt with during Covid.
OliverIsMyCat | 3 hours ago
Exactly what I was thinking. They want to garnish my wages? What wages? Lmao I've been unemployed since graduation.
AceMcVeer | an hour ago
So why are we continuing to massively subsidize something with no return value?
Geedeepee91 | 3 hours ago
Are you defaulting on your student loans? If you are on an income based payment plan all you need to do is pay the minimum
caseypatrickdriscoll | 4 hours ago
They can print money until they are dead
Hairy_Wall_6831 | 2 hours ago
I'm bitter as fuck about them taking that 10k that Biden promised away from me.
I have an email from the President that says ALL of my remaining student loans were forgiven. I was doing just fine paying them back, but I really really fucking could have used that since I started college late and missed out on a lot of scholarships.
Every Republican can go suck shit from Trump's ass.
ICLazeru | an hour ago
If that had gone through, I might be on the last year of my own student loans. It's the one tangible thing a politician was going to do for me, since I never benefited from Obamacare. The ONE thing and the GOP had to sue it away.
Oh, and the last 3 GOP presidents have all started wars in the middle east.
Just can't take them seriously at all.
letsago9987 | 3 hours ago
they can give 8 billion to farmers this year cuz of diesel costs, but can't forgive some loans. Diesel costs that are up because of pointless and costly war. Just idiocracy. they're gonna spend more on debt collectors and loan servicing than the amount of loans themselves.
but we can give a bunch of forgiven PPP scam loans during covid.. this country deserves the burn thats coming.
tachyonvelocity | 5 hours ago
There should be some consequences for not paying up debt taken on with their own responsibility. Nobody has to go to college and no one wants to fund someone else’s useless degrees. I heard the trades make a lot of money now, no degree required.
Where’s the outrage against the education bureaucracy that charges that debt in the first place? Oh yea, because college admin is politically on the same side of high government paid loans, I wonder why?
jackson_montague | 5 hours ago
I agree there is a degree of personal responsibility at play here, but lots of degrees that are necessary to keep society running have relatively low ROI. We still need teachers and social workers, even if they don’t get paid a bunch.
To your second point, lots of people of all political leanings have big issues with how education is run at the moment.
zhnki | 4 hours ago
ROI is a pretty good metric for how necessary and in demand a particular job (and prerequisite degree) is.
Wise-Seaweed-4077 | 3 hours ago
Social necessity and ROI for the individual are laughably decoupled in today's world and everyone knows it.
zhnki | 3 hours ago
What makes you think so? Pay tends to follow supply and demand. Not saying some occupations aren’t useful. Noble jobs don’t equal high pay necessarily.
Wise-Seaweed-4077 | 3 hours ago
Wage labor and salaried labor are suppressed beyond measure across the nearly the entire planet. There is a coordinated economic right wing conspiracy to not only perpetuate this, but to ridicule and gaslight everyone who questions this prevailing mode of production. The big C, baby.
Note that I said socially necessary, not "noble."
zhnki | 3 hours ago
Those are some extraordinary claims. May I ask for some extraordinary proof to back it up?
Noble or socially necessary, point stands.
AHSfav | 3 hours ago
> ROI is a pretty good metric for how necessary and in demand a particular job (and prerequisite degree) is.
this is a pretty extraordinary claim as well. wheres your evidence? specifically for the "necessary" part
zhnki | 2 hours ago
Supply and demand is a controversial phenomenon?
Wise-Seaweed-4077 | 3 hours ago
No they aren't extraordinary claims, and you're doing the thing.
"Lying eyes, blah blah blah"
This thread stands as a testament to how important education is and how education entails too many externalities (on both supply and demand sides) to leave it up to the free market.
zhnki | 3 hours ago
You’re saying big rich capitalists are working together to suppress wages around the world. I can tell you’re unhappy about things but man, that’s a wild claim.
It’s a no brainer that businesses will try to pay the least they can legally. You would do the same I bet if you owned a business.
jackson_montague | 3 hours ago
You've got it a little twisted. Pay is determined by how hard it is to replace someone. If someone off the street can do the job it has very little labor value. A finance degree from a feeder school probably has the highest degree ROI possible, but I struggle to agree that Investment Banking and Private Equity are the most necessary jobs out there.
zhnki | 3 hours ago
Yes, and how hard it is to replace someone is a supply and demand thing. If demand is high and supply is low, you get high salaries to attract candidates.
klingma | 3 hours ago
Both of those jobs have clear paths toward forgiveness via PSLF because they're either government jobs or non-profit jobs, generally.
So, while I agree with you on the need for them, I think it's valid to point out the PSLF opportunity they have after 10 years of payments.
joeychestnutsrectum | 2 hours ago
Hasn’t Trump been trying revoke PSLF too? Also a lot of necessary jobs require degrees and even if they have high pay don’t cover theirs student loan costs. Pediatricians can make less the electricians but have $500k in student loan debt.
princessvajina | an hour ago
Taking a loan of 60,000 dollars a year for four years to become a teacher or social worker is a decision that lacks all common sense. That is the responsibility of the person that made that terrible decision, not the rest of us tax payers. People go to community college for two years and then an instate school for a fraction of that and are not in debt the rest of their lives while having the same credentials in the end.
303uru | 5 hours ago
> I heard the trades make a lot of money now, no degree required.
You're ignorant and eat up propaganda like candy.
Heavy_Revolution_407 | 5 hours ago
Trade school costs money too. It's not free in all states. Many would still need student loans for trade school. Obviously trade school won't be 70k though.
303uru | 5 hours ago
It costs money to go to trade school and apprenticeships pay shit. Plus trades almost always have terrible benefits while you sacrifice your body and health for the job. There are a handful of people who make bank with trades, but the reality is they're not making money running wire or fixing plumbing, they're making big money being business owners and having hundreds of grunts who do that for them.
Whaddduptho | 3 hours ago
> while you sacrifice your body and health for the job.
Something we used to not mind doing.
> they're making big money being business owners and having hundreds of grunts who do that for them.
I mean why else would they hire people? Not everyone can work in accounting, ya know? Someone has to be the laborer.
303uru | 3 hours ago
>Something we used to not mind doing.
Flat out bullshit, my grandfather spent every occasion I saw him reinforcing that I needed to go to college to avoid the constant pain he lived with and mesothelioma which killed him from working as a laborer. Everyone minded these jobs, they did everything they could to escape them and if they couldn't everything they could to help their children find a better life.
Whaddduptho | 3 hours ago
Is your grandpa your handler? Do you have no agency of your own?
The fantasy you're talking about relied on a permanent stream of poor immigrants to take the shitty jobs. Or a really poor laborer in China to manufacture it. Someone was always working those jobs.
> everything they could to help their children find a better life.
Except for paying off their student loans for them, I guess.
klingma | 3 hours ago
Electricians and plumbers are making $60k plus, that's not propaganda.
303uru | an hour ago
>I heard the trades make a lot of money
Is what I responded to.
>Electricians and plumbers are making $60k plus
That is not a lot of money. Median annual earnings for those who worked full-time in the US is $63,360. Median is not "a lot." Men with bachelor's degrees earn approximately $900,000 more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. You're much better off taking on debt and going to college.
Lousk | 4 hours ago
What do you suggest then? The money has already been spent. How exactly do you plan on getting it back if the borrower cannot pay it back?
zhnki | 3 hours ago
By garnishing wages apparently. Read the article.
Lousk | 3 hours ago
The broader point I’m making is that it’s not going to go well. You can certainly garnish the wages of borrowers, but you’ll cause downstream effects of the broader economy.
You’re punishing borrowers for a broken borrowing system.
zhnki | 3 hours ago
Nobody forced people to take loans. Borrowers agreed to terms and those terms got massive relief recently and now going back to original terms. They should be happy they got relief at all. I hundred percent agree people won’t be happy about it but what did they expect?
Lousk | 2 hours ago
Don’t mistake me for making an argument that these loans should not be paid back. I’m more making an argument that a comprehensive reform is needed.
The system is broken. We shouldn’t punish people already struggling for participation in a broken system.
zhnki | 2 hours ago
I would sooner rather fund financial literacy so people don’t take loans with terrible conditions.
What specific reforms would you make?
Lousk | an hour ago
I hear you, that would be great to implement as part of a comprehensive solution on the borrowing side.
Ultimately a comprehensive approach would have to incorporate the supply side, borrowing, payment/servicing. Best one I’ve seen is this one.
https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/a-framework-for-reforming-federal-graduate-student-aid-policy/pdf/
bpmdrummerbpm | 3 hours ago
That’s what debtor’s prison is for!
The_Horse_Tornado | 2 hours ago
Well, they’ll be dead soon. So that’s nice.
Carolina_Hurricane | 2 hours ago
This is obviously related to boomers 🙄
dustinsc | an hour ago
I would have thought that we would learn the lesson from France that you don’t solve a solvency crisis by doubling down on paying benefits you don’t have the money for.
WhereINeededToBe | 59 minutes ago
No no no, you are misunderstanding their motives. Conservatives who run the show want a "K" shaped economy, with the middle class strangled out of existence. They really believe some people are inherently better than others. As such the lower classes don't deserve safety net programs or entitlements in their world view.
Siphoning off wealth from the working educated class who actually do work in the economy goes a long way to put them in their place, as they see it.
phoneplatypus | 5 hours ago
Legally, they can.
ohh-welp | 2 hours ago
Let's all go after fraud. Reddit tends to get quiet when discussing fraud.
ActualSpiders | 4 hours ago
The only money the youth are gonna have is what they inherit from their boomer elders when they die. Chicken, meet egg.
i-was-way- | 4 hours ago
They’ll get all of it. You’ll get nothing, and then when people realize their paychecks won’t cover their life, unemployment will skyrocket
JSmith666 | 4 hours ago
Then wages will go up and people will get rehired OR people will realize they arent as important as they think they are and companies will make do without.
juliankennedy23 | 4 hours ago
A lot of the student loans in question are with Boomers however once they took out themselves or ones that took out on behalf of their children and yes they do garnish Social Security earnings.
Corgi_Koala | 4 hours ago
It's funny how when it's something that would help a lot of people it's always "too complex" or "can't be done" but when it fucks over everyone and helps the rich we can get it done ASAP.
Lizaderp | 3 hours ago
Spoilers, we ain't got shit
overitallofittoo | 4 hours ago
Boomers? That's fucking hi-LAR-ious
Picks6x | 5 hours ago
I was lucky in that I've done well saving money cause our fukn generation has been non stop working since we were 16 so I paid off my student loans as soon as this mid wit took office. I feel bad for people who are barely making it and now this shit govt thinks they are the target to make up their abysmal shortfall
amilmore | 4 hours ago
Regardless of individual challenges/successes with payment, savings, and invome, the biggest problem here isn't an emotional one or a fairness/forgiveness issue.
At scale these loan payments and now possible garnished wages are a MASSIVE hit on economic movement and buying power for a huge part of the population.
Picks6x | 4 hours ago
Really feels like it's by design
amilmore | 4 hours ago
Right wing populist playbook:
-create vague reductive stances to appeal to uneducated voters
-lean in on values like "hard work", faith, racism, military might, hating academics, masculine/feminine gender roles and heterosexuality, etc etc etc
-win elections
-reduce taxes
-nuke government funding for everything (outside of military)
-funnel wealth to the top
-screw everything up for everyone but a tiny percentage of the population
-rinse/repeat
This kind of policy appeals to idiots who think they "did it the right way" and will happily show up to vote red to stop the libs from taking free money and spending it on expensive lattes, devils lettuce, expensive sneakers, abortions, you name it.
Seven19td | 4 hours ago
I agree. Fascists always target the intelligentsia.
Giraff3 | 3 hours ago
I wouldn’t necessarily say by design, but absolutely taking advantage of a bad situation. The government pulled back on funding for higher education and around the same time began to offer uncollateralized loans. This was meant to shore up the inevitably increased tuition cost that would arise with reduced government subsidy, but I don’t think the government realized that universities would exploit this by basically gouging tuition prices.
Where I think the intentionality starts is that we have failed to deliver on any solution. There’s nothing inherently wrong with getting a degree in art, but statistically it will earn less than a degree in computer science. There’s no reason that both degrees should cost the same, or for the government to loan out hundreds of thousands of dollars for a degree with so little chance of repayment.
It’s possible some of this is intentional, it’s true the elites prefer the masses uneducated, but it could also have been a byproduct of poor leadership and economic declines. Either way, the current predicament is definitely going to be a drag on the economy if people can’t consume because their wages are being garnished.
amilmore | an hour ago
Maybe - it depends on how we want to define "by design". Banks and financial institutions/lenders like aggressively lobbied for government-backed uncollateralized knowing it would reduce their risk and enjoy increased interest payments. There isn't some sort of gathering of evil do-ers that control the world economy that mapped this out in their secret lair, but you better believe there were countless board room meetings at Fannie Mae etc on how to get these policies changed to increase their revenue and reduce their risk.
I can guarantee this proposed policy of garnishing wages for delinquent student loan payments was deliberately drawn up by political strategists to win votes. And the broader strategy that includes policies like this, and/or generating discussion about it amongst voters, is textbook right-wing populism and ultimately fascism.
CanaKitty | 2 hours ago
It’s probably better to avoid paying and wait. Next president will probably fix them and the Supreme Court won’t be able to ruin it once it’s expanded.
Demonkey44 | 3 hours ago
Remember when Biden tried to forgive a shitload of student loans and the Republicans sued him into oblivion and the Supreme Court said Biden lacked the executive power to do it?
Yeah…
Vote Democrat.
ceciledian | 2 hours ago
Remember when the Supreme Court said Trump could do pretty much anything he wanted?
Yeah…
We’re screwed
klingma | 25 minutes ago
No?
I remember the Supreme Court saying official acts by the president were immune from prosecution but specifically stated unofficial acts like assaulting someone, bribery, killing someone, etc. were not immune from prosecution and the office of the presidency does not provide a shield of cover.
SkipioZor | an hour ago
Yeah the supreme court is corrupt and illegitimate
Eliese | 3 hours ago
'Member when people who never voted before refused to vote for Biden because of Palestine?
MagicBlaster | 2 hours ago
Seems like as a politician the smart move would have been to support a policy that enough of your potential voters support if not doing it will lose you the election, instead of pandering to "moderate" republicans and hoping enough of them vote for you to make up the lost voters from your base.
SkipioZor | an hour ago
That didnt age well at all. I feel horrible for the massive amount of human life lost with this administrations full support.
Fronesis | 2 hours ago
I don't blame them, I blame Biden for endorsing a genocide. Maybe if he had held Israel to account even a little bit, Kamala might not have lost so many swing states.
Eliese | 2 hours ago
He did not "endorse a genocide." Jeebus. And guess what - we got Trump as a result of this single-issue stupidity, which is far worse.
Specialist_Date2811 | 2 hours ago
it's worse than single issue voting. trump was still very obviously the worse candidate on Palestine too. you legitimately just have to be stupid and not understand how the potlical machine works to think voting against Trump by voting for Biden/Harris wasn't the obvious choice
I have been friends with a Lebanese person since high school who has been vocally anti Israel lng before most of these AHs paid a lick of attention. and as she said - at least we'll be able to safely organize under Harris. if we can get the numbers, they'll crack. but the Republicans will try to deport my family long before we get those numbers. they'd happily shit down the colleges entirely rather than let them host protests. it made NO sense to think Trump getting elected wasn't worse case scenario
you're either stupid or you were actively being lied to going into the election because Trump was the worst case scenario in every angle INCLUDING Palestine
Trambopoline96 | an hour ago
Lots of people on the left don’t seem to understand that removing any incentive for elected officials to pursue and champion the policies they like by just declaring they’re outright ungettable votes on principle is a bad political strategy, because you’re just incentivizing them to cater to the parts of the electorate that are guaranteed to show up.
Fronesis | 2 hours ago
What do you call giving money and arms to a country committing a genocide? I call it endorsing a genocide. Was it dumb for people to vote against Biden, considering Trump wouldn't be any better on Israel? Yeah, but this is on Biden for failing to differentiate himself on a really morally obvious issue.
MikeWPhilly | 31 minutes ago
😂. There are no good answered over there. That said I’m ok with Israel. 🤷♂️and even though Kamala wasn’t great she was better than this shit show
jdash11 | an hour ago
I also remember leftists blaming him lmao
klingma | 2 hours ago
So vote Democrat so the president can do something Unconstitutional?
It needs to come from Congress and even when they had a majority in government they refused to do anything about it.
dustinsc | an hour ago
And why should they have done anything about it? Why should the public generally shoulder the burden of private debts?
WeMightCoulda | an hour ago
Man, farm subsidies, corporate subsidies, and the PPP loan forgiveness must infuriate you.
VirtualBridge7 | an hour ago
It does.
dustinsc | 11 minutes ago
They do, yes.
klingma | 27 minutes ago
That's an entirely separate debate from what OP brought up.
Icy-Map9410 | 39 minutes ago
Oh please…..I’d much rather see our tax dollars going to student loan forgiveness than a ridiculous war which wasn’t necessary right from the start.
Which one would actually help Americans more? I’ll wait.
Yellow_Snow_Cones | 2 hours ago
Good, you borrow the money you get to pay it back.
nolineatthedmv | 2 hours ago
Good pay your loans back you bum.
dustinsc | an hour ago
“Vote Democrat” is not the message I take away from that anecdote. Why should my tax dollars go to repay someone else’s debt? And why should the Supreme Court allow a president to give away government assets without Congressional approval? Now, my tax dollars go to a lot of things that don’t make sense, but most of those things have actually been approved by Congress.
DopamineSavant | an hour ago
So I just want to make sure I'm understanding you. The major factor that determines whether you are okay with wasteful spending is congressional approval. 40 trillion national debt is fine because Congress approved it?
dustinsc | 9 minutes ago
No. I’m not ok with any wasteful congressional spending. But the Supreme Court can’t do anything about it. The Supreme Court, can, however, do something about wasteful spending that has not been authorized by Congress.
shunshuntley | an hour ago
Our presence near Iran has already eclipsed the cost of Biden's proposed forgiveness plan, and no one voted for that.
dustinsc | 5 minutes ago
True. Thing A does not become good just because thing B is also bad.
calycocalypso | an hour ago
In that same logic why does my 401k need to pay when all the boomers iver extended themselves in 08 and declared bankruptcy?
Why did all the PPP loans get forgiven?
Fuck off.
dustinsc | 7 minutes ago
We have bankruptcy laws specifically to address these kinds of concerns, so I’m not sure what your point is. PPP loans were a wasteful mess that were regularly abused. They also had their forgiveness provisions baked in because they were not ever intended to be loans.
calycocalypso | 5 minutes ago
Then why do student loans behave differently without the bankruptcy escape hatch at all?
PPP loans absolutely did not have forgiveness baked in.
Money_Commission3845 | an hour ago
You already gift your tax dollars to a for profit healthcare system ranking last in the world amd most expensive along with companies like Amazon. Learn what velocity of money is. Money that is taken for these loans now will not go into the economy exasperating an already fragile situation that has now resulted in massive monopolization, high inflation amd higher cost of living. They're starving the beast and lastly why wouldn't you want to have policy that helps other people instead of business, industries and corporations that can easily afford it with profit margins in historic ranges? By the way Department of Education authorized the head and president to act in matter of those loans with how they see fit, a gerrymandered Supreme Court saw differently which I hope you can put two and two together.
breakfastburrito24 | an hour ago
Give your tax dollars to Israel instead
Icy-Map9410 | 36 minutes ago
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🤞
LaniusCruiser | 50 minutes ago
That's not how student loan forgiveness works. Your tax dollars are not paying for anyone's debts, the federal government is simply forgiving the debts that they already own.
pepperblast3000 | 52 minutes ago
I guess the fair argument I heard about the situation was that no one on the education side could account for the 10-20x inflation in education costs in the past 40 years to prove they weren’t in cahoots with the lenders. Essentially operating a scheme to be predatory, students incentivized to take out bigger loans, tuition (and admin costs) continues to rise. Instead of being $6800 for an undergrad, it’s $90,000.
Visible_Wolverine2 | 8 minutes ago
Well, I have already paid over 120% of what I borrowed and will still be paying for the next 8 years. But yeah, “forgiving” the balance of my debt is you paying my debt. Bullshit.
architecture13 | 32 minutes ago
>Now, my tax dollars go to a lot of things that don’t make sense, but most of those things have actually been approved by Congress.
That's weird, I could swear we are in a war with Iran that Congress has never declared or funded. The Iran war since March could have paid off 31.14% of all private student loan debt in the County and we would still have cheaper fuel, fertilizer, and rare mineral prices.
Big_Grass1690 | an hour ago
if the loans are forgiven, who do you think pays for them? you and i.
weak1111111 | 43 minutes ago
He did a horrible job and it didn't stand up in the courts. I think I won't be voting at all.
yemsg97 | an hour ago
As a student loan borrower, I actually resent the Biden admin's take on student loans. It was naive to think forgiving those loans wouldn't be challenged and it only created a total sh*t show that continues to present day for millions of borrowers.
RelativeCareless2192 | 5 hours ago
This will technically reduce inflation by reducing the amount of money people have to spend on things like housing. However it will likely hit low spenders the hardest so may not have material inflation reduction and it will likely cause more issues by making people poorer.
ImaginaryHospital306 | an hour ago
Yea this is how you actually get disinflation. Defaults mean money is being destroyed, vanished into nothingness. The definitional opposite of inflation
MrSocPsych | 2 hours ago
Good ol austerity baybeeeeeee
zhnki | 3 hours ago
People are going to cut back on frivolous spending before housing. At least the responsible ones will.
smokeyleo13 | 3 hours ago
Someone behind on their loan payments is already likely to have cut most frivolous things already, like car and bill payments
Kindly_Fox_5314 | 3 hours ago
Eh I think you overestimate a lot of people’s willingness to forego lifestyle reduction for boring debt payments
ImaginaryHospital306 | an hour ago
That’s why wage garnishment is a thing
americanspirit64 | 5 hours ago
What a total 100% scam. The smug look on the faces of those above, all say the same thing. I am an entitled as*hole and I couldn't care less who knows. About 90% of those loans were predator in nature and forced on to children by their parents.
I wanted to edit this to say... If a company requires a college education for a job, then they are the ones responsible for paying the loans.
Own-Lab-8118 | 5 hours ago
Just so you are aware. The reporter likely didn't read the headline to the people in the image above and then snap the shot of the image as their "reaction". The image and the headline likely have nothing to do with one another. The reporting agency used both the headline and the image to ignite the very feeling you are feeling inside you. Not that your opinion is wrong or unwarranted, but it seems that your line " The smug look on the faces of those above, all say the same thing. I am an entitled as*hole and I couldn't care less who knows." Is implying you think that was the case here.
americanspirit64 | 4 hours ago
Duh... Just what I need, someone explaining how articles and stories are written. My feelings weren't a reaction to the story, the story was the reaction to the I have felt for decades, average Americans are just catching up.
Own-Lab-8118 | 3 hours ago
I get the sense, you're not the type of person I would like to be around. Thanks for the helpful insight into your mind 👍
Whaddduptho | 3 hours ago
> forced on to children by their parents.
We really need to decide if they were an adult when they took the loan or not. We can't just sometimes hold 18 yr old individuals accountable as an adult, and not at other times.
And furthermore it is not as if these loans are taken in one big lump sum. They are taken out each year of schooling. So the first loan was taken out at 18, the second loan at 19, the third loan at 20, and the fourth loan at 21. And if they go for a masters it might be 22 and 23, well into adulthood. Every summer is an opportunity for them to evaluate if it is worth continuing and taking on more debt.
Lizaderp | 3 hours ago
Yeah, just look at your bills and quit. That's why America gets so many medical professionals from India because we can't actually graduate any of our own.
No, let's stop pushing predatory loans on someone who can't even buy a beer. How about we make loans that aren't predatory, for example.
klingma | 2 hours ago
We get foreign doctors because we don't have enough residencies available to meet the need of training new doctors. What you're describing, really isn't what's happening.
Whaddduptho | 3 hours ago
> Yeah, just look at your bills and quit.
In some cases absolutely yes. That is the dose of reality they need. Especially if their grades indicate they are mediocre.
> That's why America gets so many medical professionals from India because we can't actually graduate any of our own.
It's weird how we bring up doctors as if most of them went to be a doctor. Nurses are being hired quite rapidly right now they're doing fine.
> That's why America gets so many medical professionals from India
Part of why we bring people in is that wealthy and educated people don't have enough kids to replace themselves. Part of it is because Indians don't demand absurd pay.
Lizaderp | an hour ago
Nurses don't have the authority to diagnose. And don't you think it's a problem that the only concern is that RICH PEOPLE aren't having kids? Fuck the poors, right? The rich kids are the only ones that matter.
Whaddduptho | an hour ago
Poor people go for free mostly.
Pell Grant combined with other grants pay for virtually all of it.
Lizaderp | 58 minutes ago
Are you know this from experience? Because as one of the poors, I assure you those funds dried up real fast.
Whaddduptho | 52 minutes ago
Yes I know this from experience.
Pell grant provides $7300 per year. And they'll give that to you for like 6 years. Plus most states also have their own tuition program to apply for along with other merit-based grants from private entities including the college itself.
Some-Leopard5025 | 30 minutes ago
18 is not even old enough to drink. It should have never been old enough to take on generational wealth blocking debt.
zhnki | 3 hours ago
Well that is certainly a take… good luck out there.
exlushdad | 4 hours ago
We all had the same info
klingma | 2 hours ago
Predatory? This is always such nonsense. It's not like signing up for a credit to get a t-shirt. You go through a pretty long process to actually get the loans where the interest rates and repayment plans are clearly stated.
The issue that people don't actually care about that or think about the debt until the bill comes due.
Marypoppinsya11 | an hour ago
I went to college for a little over a year. Never got a degree and dropped out before I wasted anymore money. With child support and tax deductions I only bring home 600 a week. If they garnish my wages, I can't make it. I'm barely making it now. I pinch pennies everywhere I can, and still can't save a dime. What am I supposed to do?
Yep_what | 32 minutes ago
Just like everyone else currently and always throughout history. You deal with the cumulative consequences of the series of choices you've made throughout your life.
You chose to go to college, you chose to drop out, you chose to have a child. Maybe you'll argue some of the decisions weren't your fault or beyond your control.
You'd be wrong.
College = paying for it
Dropping out = less career opportunities and less money on average
Kid = paying for it
Not being primary caregiver = child support
Choices and consequences are all we have. You chose an action (or chose lack of action) and now you have consequences.
Make better choices going forward and the consequences for those choices get better.
Or continue to be a victim to your bad choices and give up any control you have in your life.
Your choice.
zeuzfuse | 27 minutes ago
You’re a dork for thinking student loan day should be a burden on the working class
Yep_what | 10 minutes ago
I think that burdens should be the responsibility of those who CHOSE to create the burden (debt) in the first place.
Their "class" doesn't factor in to it.
Choices and consequences.
TechMoney5 | 26 minutes ago
How much better about yourself do you feel after typing that?
Azulsleeps | 23 minutes ago
Becoming a more productive member of society shouldn't be punished. Education (even if you didn't get the paper) makes you more productive. Having a kid is literally investing productivity in the future. From a disgusting numbers viewpoint, these things should be encouraged. From a humanity standpoint, these things should also be encouraged.
MostlyStoned | 7 minutes ago
Education doesn't automatically make people more productive, and we do encourage people to have kids, with things like tax credits and the like. We shouldn't be encouraging anyone to have a kid at any time, especially when they can't afford it
Bleezy79 | an hour ago
Welcome to trumps America. This is the country you voted for, America. Where the rich can do anything they want and you’re gonna pay for it. You will suffer and they will flourish.
Odd-Weird-5273 | 44 minutes ago
I actually like this approach. If you borrowed a bunch of money and made everyone who didnts degree worthless then you deserve to pay the price.
registeredwhiteguy | 29 minutes ago
Can tell by your writing that you don’t have a degree. Hell you might not have a GED.
yemsg97 | an hour ago
I sure wish they'd put this kind of energy on actually doing their job with what's in front of them. Having a student loan right now is a f*cking nightmare and it's criminal the way FSA and the loan servicers are handling them.
For example:
- not processing repayment plan change requests. I waited 18 months and had to submit 5 requests to get moved out of SAVE and back into IBR. I first submitted Oct 2024. I literally just made my first payment last month. WTF.
- not processing buyback requests for those in PSLF (it's taking 1-2 years for these to get processed)
- taking autopayments twice out of peoples accounts. Good luck getting that extra payment back in a timely fashion.
- not taking autopayments at all and then marking the borrower "late" because there is zero grace period. Not even 24 hours. Despite the fact it's on the servicer for not pulling the autopayment.
- payments made are disappearing and being marked "late"
- not updating PSLF qualifying payment counts
- when you call MOHELA, expect hold times of up to 3-4 hours with zero resolution of the issue THEY caused.
I once made a $1900 payment to pay off one of my loans. This would've have zeroed it out. The next day it disappeared. It was over a week and a half before it was resolved. That whole time they are adding interest to the total amount due DAILY.
I could go on and on and on....
And blaming this all on a "glitch". They got more "glitches" than Glitch McConnell. I'm calling it willful incompetence. Because this isn't all by accident, it's all by design.
FocsSus | 45 minutes ago
That's a lot of acronyms that mean nothing to most of us.
Shower-Altruistic | 5 hours ago
Debts need to be repaid unless your a farmer. Then you could be a millionaire AND keep slave labor via the h1b program AND get assistance thats either very deferred or with no payment plan at all!
Lizaderp | 3 hours ago
Then we'll have lots of farmers and no doctors. Great if you love long waits to see your overworked primary care doctor whose working for Medicares bread crumbs of a reimbursement.
phoneplatypus | 5 hours ago
The student loan game needs to be sorted. This is the ugly way. The debt was taken out, it needs to be repaid. Better would be hard capping student loans at lower levels and let the education complex drown if they don’t want to come down to earth.
bolerobell | 4 hours ago
No. This isn’t an issue of “colleges pay too much for stuff so they charge exorbitant rates”. This is an issue of States have been dramatically underfunding public colleges since the 80s. Funding needs to be restored. Boomers had the benefit, in the 60s and 70s, of colleges that were like 90-95% paid for by state taxes. Gen X like 65%. Today it’s like 20%. Yeah, there may be some minor savings in capping the amount of non-teaching administrators but those savings would be a drop in the bucket and would not meaningfully lower college tuition rates.
Right wing media has you amped up about the wrong thing.
RetardedWabbit | 3 hours ago
And since state funding was cut the colleges also cut back on spending, trying their best to keep the core parts of liberal education while dealing with dramatically decreased funding. Education got less pretty, but we tried our best to still educate people and help them develop into well rounded people. That's why student to professor ratios have gotten so much worse, and professor pay declined.
Wait, no, actually they just raised tuition/fees. Some people then took on more debt to pay that increased tuition cost. The ratio and professor pay parts did get worse though, on top of shifting the cost.
We just let the students take out all that debt, and made it exceptionally difficult for them to get out of it (compared to other debts).
doyletyree | 4 hours ago
What was my local CC does not need dorms, a baseball team, and extensive complexes.
It needs solid educators in adequate infrastructure for providing cost-effective remedial and secondary education.
“Small” schools are almost gone due, in part, to easy money by way of Fed subsidies.
-Sincerely,
Priced Out
ImaginaryHospital306 | an hour ago
Average tuition net of aid and grants at in-state universities $2300 a year. If you live in driving distance you can get a bachelors degree for under $10k.
vman3241 | 2 hours ago
>This is an issue of States have been dramatically underfunding public colleges since the 80s. Funding needs to be restored.
I agree states need to restore funding of higher education, but this is only possible because of guaranteed federal student loans where the federal government pays the balance. The cost of college today (not just the sticker price) is significantly higher than it was 40 years ago
bloodrider1914 | 5 hours ago
Money needs to be less available and universities need to cut back on spending on administration and non-necessities.
Of course they're probably just going to eliminate liberal arts departments and hire more adjuncts instead.
Corgi_Koala | 4 hours ago
Government backed loans are always repaid. If they discharged the debt today loan companies wouldn't lose a single penny.
Clone63 | 5 hours ago
I like your plan a lot - haven't heard of hard caps being proposed!
ImaginaryHospital306 | an hour ago
That’s kind of what’s already happening with current and prospective college students. Everyone now knows going into $50k+ debt for a bachelors degree is insane unless you are at a top 10 school or dead set on being a doctor. Even just 5-10 years ago it was still defensible for most schools, but not anymore. Enrollment is already dropping at many colleges and universities and I expect we’ll see a few go under in the next 5 years.
Good-Bandicoot-2152 | 5 hours ago
I'd pay mine back if they kept me at the reasonable payments. But no, they kicked me off that plan and expect a grand a month. Just garnish me, it'll be less.
DavefromCA | 4 hours ago
A grand a month? How much do you owe?
Good-Bandicoot-2152 | 4 hours ago
Way too much for my BA and MS.
Ticksdonthavelymph | 4 hours ago
It won’t though… they garnish at 15%, and will tack on court fees. My payment for SAVE has gone up about $500 and I’m now expected to pay like $1450 a month for any PSLF plan, (which conveniently is also now paid in full like 2 months before I’d get PSLF). Buuut wage garnishment (for me) is the same fucking payment, only with ruined credit, inability to ever borrow again, and whatever court fees they tack on… there’s no escape (at least until a new admin)
Good-Bandicoot-2152 | 3 hours ago
Holding on for a hero.
Aiwendil-981 | 3 hours ago
I'll wait, new admin comes soon enough.
Traditional_Crew_737 | 5 hours ago
Its really the interest rate thats the killer.
LittleTension8765 | 5 hours ago
What’s your yearly income? The mandatory payments for me seem somewhat reasonable considering the amount I had to take out and my income level
Good-Bandicoot-2152 | 4 hours ago
Its about a quarter of my income, monthly.
LittleTension8765 | 3 hours ago
Are they federal student loans? The cap is 15% of your disposable (not total) income, older plans 20%.
Good-Bandicoot-2152 | 3 hours ago
They are and yeah it'll be 15% i bet. Still much better than the 1200 they wanted.
LittleTension8765 | 3 hours ago
So it’s 15% not 25%? 15% seems reasonable, no?
myturn19 | an hour ago
It is. They just don’t want to pay them back. Like the majority of these people complaining lol
nomadjackk | an hour ago
Maybe dude meant a quarter of his take-home
moradinshammer | an hour ago
Yea, because that’s what people pay bills with.
Correct-March8683 | 5 hours ago
explain why every system in the US that is designed to help people and better our society is only available to those with money to purchase it?
where as other countries with better quality of life do not have this problem?
FUCK THIS FUCKING BULLSHIT COUNTRY, THESE LOANS ARE A JOKE
Delgra | 2 hours ago
They want to garnish wages so the younger generation sees military enlistment as a necessity. After all the GOP & Israel are pushing for student debt forgiveness as a benefit of enlistment.
dustinsc | an hour ago
They want to garnish wages so that borrowers will actually pay back what they promised to pay back.
prowler1369 | an hour ago
They were probably promised better paying jobs if they went to college.
dustinsc | 6 minutes ago
Sounds like they should be getting after whoever made those promises, not making the public pay the price.
cotton-candy-dreams | an hour ago
😂 rawrrr
FCRagnar | 5 hours ago
Debts need to be repaid. But, the interest rates on these are ridiculous. There should be a way to refinance these at very low or 0% interest.
badwoofs | 4 hours ago
Over and over you talk to anyone and they're paying interest, having paid off the actual loan years ago. Student loan debt is a neverending racket if you don't get it paid off right away which good luck as a student with no experience in this economy.
LackingTact19 | 5 hours ago
An inflationary method which probably wouldn't be tenable since the current administration has fucked up so badly
klingma | 2 hours ago
There is an interest rate deduction of 1% right now if you auto pay. I will say, even 1%, has been pretty impactful and has helped me start chipping away at some principal and reduce the ever increasing interest balance.
DavefromCA | 4 hours ago
Then don’t sign up for high interest loans
SghettiAndButter | 3 hours ago
The fact that we give out massive loans to 18 year olds is criminal
AscendentElient | 2 hours ago
What age should massive loans be allowed?
SghettiAndButter | 2 hours ago
Call me crazy but I think loans that can’t be discharged though bankruptcy shouldn’t exist at all for any age.
AscendentElient | 50 minutes ago
Off the cuff I don’t disagree with that.
I’d have to look more into it but I can appreciate the sentiment.
But again what age should massive loans be allowed?
SghettiAndButter | 35 minutes ago
Massive loans can be allowed at any age provided they can be discharged through bankruptcy. The type of loans we give students now.. I feel like at least being 21 would give kids a few more years of living in the real world to understand the implications on a loan you can never get rid of will have on their lives.
Paetolus | 2 hours ago
Easy to say, but kids are being told their whole life that they need to go to college after high school to get a good career. High school especially has so many programs that assume you're going move on to college. SATs, ACTs, AP courses, etc. They're not going to be thinking too much about the financials of such a decision when they're 18, they're going to want the best college they can get.
Lizaderp | 3 hours ago
Then don't ever ever build any credit ever.
klingma | 2 hours ago
What a stupid take lol
There are ways to build credit without the need for a credit card with 18+% interest, you know that right?
Lizaderp | an hour ago
You mean other than having mommy and daddy cosign for you?
TemporaryCrazy1968 | an hour ago
Seems like the comments related to indentured servitude were relevant to this administration but it was directed to enough of the population. lol things feel bleak. This is coming from someone with no student loan debt but a degree :/
CosmoKing2 | 51 minutes ago
Anyone else starting to feel like they want us all to become slaves? There hasn't been a single action taken by this administration that benefits the working class or poor.
TheSpeckler | 22 minutes ago
Replace "this administration" with "Republicans" and I'll agree with you more.
TastySpermDispenser7 | 5 hours ago
Well, as we all know, 12 years of publicly funded education is capitalism, but 16 years of publicly funded education is filthy communism.
I have to add extra words because making a point succinctly is also filthy communism. Oatmeal raisn cookies? Believe it or not, filthy communism. Not trial, no nothing, just filthy communism.
EchoChamberTech | 3 hours ago
Hey there, TastySpermDispenser.
The oatmeal raisin analogy hits even better. Because them mother fuckers trick you into thinking they are chocolate chip. Just like all this communism. One second you think you're about to take a nice bite of capitalism and then, BAM, EAT THAT COMMUNISM BITCH!
TastySpermDispenser7 | 3 hours ago
Some asshole took a delicious grape that could have been used to make amazing wine and instead was like: Fuck that, let's shrivel this up in the sun so that only the worst parts are left. And do you know why? That fucker just wanted to trick little boys into eating hot garbage. May he forever walk around barefoot in a dark room full of legos.
Serious-Reception-12 | 3 hours ago
The last 4 years are a lot more expensive than the first 12
TastySpermDispenser7 | 13 minutes ago
They do not need to be. Effective education is accomplished all over the world for a lower cost than we do in america.
MotherHolle | 2 hours ago
Someone I know with a Ph.D. just re-enrolled as a bachelor's student for forbearance because paying for tuition is cheaper than her student loan payments, lol.
I might end up being a lifelong student too.
Big_Grass1690 | an hour ago
interest still accrues?
MotherHolle | 16 minutes ago
Death is the primary means of escape. She's on PSLF technically but the minimum payments just aren't manageable, even on the supposedly most "affordable" plan. You underestimate the willingness of people to simply wait out death or seek it first.
mwatwe01 | 5 hours ago
If you take out a loan on agreed upon terms, you should pay the loan back on those terms. If you don’t, there are consequences.
Literally every loan granted operates this way. I don’t understand why anyone thinks a loan for college expenses should work any differently.
Endbr1nger | 5 hours ago
Because they are different. You cannot declare bankruptcy to deal with student loans like you can with other loans.
TheBanishedBard | 5 hours ago
The idea is that college has become unfairly expensive and wages and job opportunities have not kept up with the outrageous cost of going to college. The argument is if banks and airlines and auto companies get bailed out for their shitty choices why can't we bail out the entire generation saddled with absurd amounts of debt that they can never hope to pay off when the shitty choice they made was, apparently, getting an education.
Epicardiectomist | 5 hours ago
The problem is that OP isn't saying this out of a lack of information, they're saying it while also knowing what you're saying, and not caring.
Wise-Seaweed-4077 | 3 hours ago
The job of every generation is to make them care, even if we have to drag them kicking and screaming to the realization that once again no, we won't be feudal serfs.
Wirse | 4 hours ago
Banks and airlines and GM were bailed out via loans. They paid them back to the government, with interest. You should do the same!
mwatwe01 | 5 hours ago
> college has become unfairly expensive
In-state tuition for public universities and community colleges is still affordable. Needs and merit based scholarships abound.
> job opportunities have not kept up
This is entirely dependent on the degree. It's true that some degrees have a terrible ROI when it comes to job prospects. People aren't being very wise in choosing to pursue those degrees, if they also couldn't afford tuition.
>banks and airlines and auto companies
They employ people and contribute to the economy. A 23-year-old with a communications degree does not.
TheBanishedBard | 5 hours ago
You are never going to be a billionaire and you're probably never going to be a millionaire. Stop parotting the party line of the ruling class that you'll never be a part of.
nomadjackk | an hour ago
Not to be pedantic but anyone who has 20+ years left in the workforce certainly better hope to be a millionaire by retirement.
Being a millionaire is not the flex it used to be
Wirse | 4 hours ago
It’s sad that people like you pay all that money for college and still come out spouting dumb shit like this. You could’ve just saved the tuition and spent your time on TikTok and Reddit if this was going to be your educational ceiling anyway.
mwatwe01 | 2 hours ago
I am a millionaire (barely) and one who paid for his own college tuition via work and scholarships. I'm not parroting anyone. I'm telling you that I'm not interested in paying off your loan with my tax dollars.
welpWW3isgonnasuck | 5 hours ago
The problem is that in student loan master agreements allows the contract to be unilaterally changed after you have already accepted the loans.
morbie5 | 5 hours ago
True but federal student loans have more flexible repayment than any other loan in existence
welpWW3isgonnasuck | 4 hours ago
My repayment options just got gutted by the federal government. I was eligible for 7 payment plans. After MAGA forcing the OBBB, I am only eligible for 3 and one of those is just the 10 year standard plan.
morbie5 | 3 hours ago
And with normal loans you are eligible for only one repayment plan. It is called the 'f you pay me' plan.
> I am only eligible for 3 and one of those is just the 10 year standard plan.
You should be eligible for up to 7: ICR, PAYE, RAP, IBR, standard, graduated, extended. However, PAYE and ICR are getting phased out in 2028 (as things stand now) but you can stay on them until that point. PAYE was also restricted based on other criteria. You need to have had a balance above a certain amount to be eligible for graduated and extended
welpWW3isgonnasuck | 3 hours ago
Normal loans wouldnt unilaterally alter my payment plan without additional consideration.
The proper way to have handled this would have been to grandfather the 7 plans that existed pre-OBBB and only allow for RAP, Standard, and New IBR after OBBB. This is the first time Congress has actually made plans worse for the average borrower.
MiddleAgedSponger | 5 hours ago
You think all loans should work the same with the same conditions? Then why can't students discharge student debt in bankruptcy like everyone else can?
Wellontheotherhand1 | 5 hours ago
> > > > > Literally every loan granted operates this way.
Really? I can declare bankruptcy and get out from under other loans. Can't do that with student loans. So no, every other loan granted DOESN'T operate that way, does it?
Also, pretty much no other type of loan allows the lender to change the terms after the deal has been done. But student loans most certainly do.
Special_Feedback9145 | 5 hours ago
If we passed a law that made student loans like all other loans, the problem would fix itself. Lenders would also stop giving out unsecured student loans, which would force universities to really look at their fiscal viability. It would also force the government to come up with a solution that makes education more affordable.
So yeah, let’s do that.
krastem91 | 5 hours ago
Because loans are underwritten with the assumption of loss and default risk.
Student loans are more akin to indenture servitude than a standard financial product .
mwatwe01 | 5 hours ago
No.
The student voluntarily take out a loan and gets something of value (money) and then ideally spends it on something and gets something of value (a college degree).
That's not indentured servitude; those are just the terms. Don't like it? Don't take out the loan. But to your point, I would be in favor of not giving loans in the first place, if the person is seen as high risk of not paying it back. Like how every other loan works.
doombecomesyou | 4 hours ago
I mean, there is no way to underwrite that. The entire industry would collapse because no one would qualify. I do think loans over a certain amount should have some minimum collateral requirements.
mwatwe01 | 2 hours ago
> The entire industry would collapse because no one would qualify.
Colleges and organizations give money to qualified students in the form of grants and scholarships. Are you telling me that a bank wouldn't give a loan to a good student going into high ROI major?
doombecomesyou | 2 minutes ago
Schools give grants and scholarships to promising students across a range of disciplines, including in the arts and humanities, usually due to an endowment and/or to boost the school's prestige. The ROI on that investment is nonmonetary. There is no sure bet in any major. And we are only going to support, as a country, a certain segment of jobs? Yeah, that'd be great for the economy...
krastem91 | 4 hours ago
Note I said more akin to …
You’re missing the other side of the risk equation…
One one hand you have the borrowers ; who will in aggregate demonstrate higher default rates if they’re higher risk. On the other side; the product or service being financed should also be underwritten and risk criteria applied to it as well…
Things gets messier when you take into account that the education system has created induced demand for education through crdentjalism …
MKE_Freak | 5 hours ago
Oof im glad this piss poor take is getting justifiably and easily/successfully rebutted.
I hope you learned something
formerfatty2fit | 5 hours ago
The repayment terms of my loans have changed significantly. The repayment plan I had planned on is gone, it was in existence when I signed my promissory note. How many other loans can have the repayment plans totally restructured without consideration?
SweatyRussian | 5 hours ago
Who gives a $300,000 loan to an unemployed 18 year old? Only because they think the government will bail them out.
Correct-March8683 | 5 hours ago
lovely bad faith argument.
Cappyc00l | 5 hours ago
Yes, they shouldn’t work any differently. Which means they should be dischargable during bankruptcy like other loans, right?
ThereAreDozensOfUs | 5 hours ago
Because they’re 18, fuck nuts
TheIncandescentAbyss | 5 hours ago
If you take out a loan on agreed upon terms, you should have the option of bankruptcy, oh wait……. You don’t.
Your comment is pointless and you’re just spilling nonsense to make you feel better.
Fantoozie | 5 hours ago
Tell the banks that
doombecomesyou | 5 hours ago
Kinda with you and kinda not. I do think they should allowed to be discharged in BK. The government should also subsidize the loans at a low rate and allow borrowers to refi into the lower rate. Ofc, can't do that now given the cost of capital/interest rates. My rate was 2.25% a quarter century ago. If the orange turd had gotten it done in his first term, he might have earned some political capital.
SawNickYouth | 4 hours ago
Unless you're the President or own a business. Then you can discharge debt and likely make a shit ton of money doing so.
aReelProblem | 2 hours ago
Good garnish them wages. A debt is a debt I’m sorry you signed the contract and feel like it should be excused. I could see maybe the contract being reviewed and reduced but nothing in life is free.
HighPriestessSkibidi | an hour ago
Did you go to college?
Edit: legitimate question, not saying this like a dick
aReelProblem | an hour ago
Yes.
atony1400 | an hour ago
Considering their grammar, I'm skeptical.
sho_biz | an hour ago
nothing in life is free unless you're corrupt enough, then everything can be free
but for real, this isn't a good take, these debts weren't signed off for a home or something, it was for secondary education, which shouldn't be accessible only to the wealthy.
if something is subject to a fine (or in this case, requiring a loan), then it only affects the poor.
dustinsc | an hour ago
And a home should be accessible only to the wealthy? How does not collecting on debts already incurred for services already rendered help bring down the cost of education?
sho_biz | an hour ago
false equivocation - education is not a durable good like a house. much like healthcare, you cannot commodify these things and have a functioning society.
dustinsc | 11 minutes ago
I agree that it’s not a durable good. I don’t see how that has any relevance to whether the debt ought to be shouldered by the public.
aReelProblem | an hour ago
Poor people work their asses off all the time to afford their education.
sho_biz | 25 minutes ago
'look, my irish immigrant grandparents made it in america - so shut up already' isn't the flex you think it is, and ignores the reality of things now vs decades ago.
Ididnotpostthat | an hour ago
Seriously … this subreddit is called economics. Is this very subreddit telling me there are no consequences for choices and student loans should just be forgiven? Then there is no point to this subreddit.
LaniusCruiser | 44 minutes ago
The consequences fall on the lender for making a poor financial decision, not the literal children that they lended it to.
DavefromCA | 4 hours ago
When are our people going to learn…STOP TAKING OUT GIANT LOANS TO GO TO EXPENSIVE COLLEGES. The sub Reddit I frequent every now and then someone asks “is it worth going $50,000 in debt for this program?” NO!!!! There are cheaper ways!
LaniusCruiser | 45 minutes ago
Return things to the way that they were, and make student loan debts dischargeable by bankruptcy, and a lot of these problems will be greatly reduced. When someone makes a risky bet and loans money that is not returned, then that is simply a risk they have to accept. Ever since they changed the rules and made it impossible to discharge student loan debt, the lenders can lend to anyone and in any amount that they want and effectively get a lifetime of free money in the form of interest in return.
Overwatchhatesme | 10 minutes ago
Lol let them try, garnishing millions of people’s wages when they’re already unable to afford paying for shit is never gonna work. You’d cause an economic collapse.
Preme2 | 5 hours ago
About time. Too many are treating student loan repayment as optional. The biggest detriment, so far, is a drop in credit score while saving hundreds if not thousands per month.
I question the assumption that everyone not paying their student loans are in some type of financial hardship. The same way people who make 300k live paycheck to paycheck. Questionable. Some just refuse to adjust and they won’t do so until they’re forced.
IMO, it’s unfair for Bobby to reduce his expenses to repay his loan while Emma pockets her monthly payment and puts it toward a European vacation. I’m sure this will be controversial on reddit.
NewBroPewPew | 5 hours ago
Nice strawman. Yeah everyone not able to pay their loans is taking European vacations. Makes total sense. This wouldn't be an issue at all if the one's in financial hardship could take care of it in bankruptcy. You just want slaves back.
GurProfessional9534 | 5 hours ago
I don’t know about European vacations, but a _lot_ of Gen Z are prioritizing travel and similar doom spending, which is just lighting money on fire with nothing to show for it except maybe some pics.
Somehow people took the temporary covid reprieve on student loans as a new baseline, and reconfigured their spending habits as if those payments would never come back. It’s certainly a factor.
NewBroPewPew | 3 hours ago
Terrible lies building up fake strawman. Travel and luxury spending is falling off a cliff for Gen Z. Where are you getting your lies from? You should disconnect from that source.
GurProfessional9534 | 2 hours ago
Incorrect. Gen Z is the only generation that increased travel spending over the last year.
https://www.investopedia.com/how-travel-spending-patterns-compare-by-generation-from-baby-boomers-to-gen-z-12023179
NewBroPewPew | 2 hours ago
That's very different than your original claim. Your claim was Gen Z can't pay for student loans because they travel too much. Can you prove that?
GurProfessional9534 | 2 hours ago
I was responding to your claim that gen z travel was falling off a cliff. No it’s not, it’s increasing. Don’t move the goal posts.
NewBroPewPew | an hour ago
Gen Z spend less than X and Boomers on travel. They are not going to Europe. Your article doesn't say much of anything. So I looked it up for you. You're welcome. Also vacation travel is down significantly across the board for all generations this year. Get rekt.
GurProfessional9534 | 55 minutes ago
That is because gen z is working with a smaller baseline discretionary income than boomers and gen x. But in proportion to their discretionary income, gen z spends the most of any generation.
NewBroPewPew | 50 minutes ago
Dude, stop doubling down. I've proven my point. Gen Z is not refusing to make student loan payments to go on trips to Europe. I'm not sure what you are lying in defense of.
Gen Z spends 8% of discretionary income on travel. The other Gens each spend 10%.
Just stop lying.
kvngk3n | 5 hours ago
How’d you feel about those COVID PPP loans spank?
GurProfessional9534 | 5 hours ago
I don’t know why people bring this up like it is a valid zinger. Pretty much no one is in favor of the PPP loans. Maybe except the recipients. But this kind of stuff makes people mad for the most part, just like the bailouts in 2008 did.
But besides that, the debt incurred by things like the PPP, amplified by rising interest rates, means there is less money available to do things like forgive loans today. In fact, more than ever, it makes us have to collect on those loans, including through garnishment. We’re borrowing like $2 trillion a year, and the fallout for that is going to eventually come ij the form of large inflation, a depression, or similar. Racking up more debt by something like forgiveness of loans would make the eventual outcome even worse.
IUpvoteBlueGuitars | 5 hours ago
Really? The line I always here is "We were told we wouldn't have to pay the PPP loans back. And so we all took them not expecting to every pay them." As if that makes it better.
And yes, typically by the same class of people complaining about student loans. Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it's not part of the discourse. Makes me wonder why the business class was offered giveaways in the guise of loans... Maybe because they knew they had to lie to the public to get us to buy off on it? Rules for thee, not for me
GurProfessional9534 | 5 hours ago
It should be a surprise to no one that the life boats go first to the wealthy and well-connected. That is how it always goes.
IUpvoteBlueGuitars | 4 hours ago
Well, well when those are the exact people who steered the ship into the iceberg in the first place, then push everybody aside to get to the front of the line, they shouldn't be surprised when the rest of the passengers decide that they're going to have something to say about that.
GurProfessional9534 | 4 hours ago
You’re speaking to the choir about that. I suspect we are going to see a similar sentiment in the polls in November.
IUpvoteBlueGuitars | 4 hours ago
God I hope so. Vote people.
bolerobell | 4 hours ago
So then you support clawing back the PPP loans?
GurProfessional9534 | 3 hours ago
100%
kvngk3n | 5 hours ago
Then why not sit back and stfu about something that could benefit the economy as a whole instead of going “well if they took them out they should pay”. Boomers act like we took out loans to take vacations only when we were told, go to school, you level up. Well, COVID hit when the majority of us were graduating THEN after COVID, possibly the worst job markets ever. So what are the options? Most people with degrees, aren’t even working in their fields.
So make matters worse? For what? What is garnishing money from an already struggling demographic going to serve? People talk about not being able to afford groceries as is, I’m sure garnishing wages won’t help afford groceries.
GurProfessional9534 | 5 hours ago
I graduated high school into 9/11 and college right before the Great Recession, so my run was way worse than what Gen Z faced recently. But you know what happens? Eventually economic conditions change, the business cycle propagates, jobs reappear. By 2020, the market was so starved for labor that they were offering signing bonuses for fast food jobs and people were getting high-paying white collar jobs without degrees. These things ebb and flow. You will have many good economic times, and bad, throughout your life.
You don’t need to have a job in your field to benefit from a college education. There are many jobs out there that just require a college degree of some kind, and more jobs still that do not technically require a degree but benefit a lot from having one.
But no, forgiveness would not benefit the economy. It would make it substantially worse.
kvngk3n | 5 hours ago
Current argument isn’t about forgiveness right now, it’s about garnishment. How would that be beneficial to the economy right now?
GurProfessional9534 | 4 hours ago
Because bond rates are climbing and the deficit is $2 trillion. We are currently paying more in debt repayments than the defense budget, just to give a sense or scale. Bond rates will continue to rise until we establish a better fiscal balance. Some of that will not come until we get a new administration, and even then it’s a “maybe.” But another way to do that is by improving revenues, and garnishment does that.
kvngk3n | 4 hours ago
So how do you combat homelessness and starvation?
GurProfessional9534 | 4 hours ago
By voting for democrats.
kvngk3n | 4 hours ago
Your defense of garnishment directly contradicts that.
going2leavethishere | 4 hours ago
Oh god not another in my day things were harder. You are a pathetic human being.
GurProfessional9534 | 4 hours ago
It’s simply correct.
JerseyDonut | 5 hours ago
Real bad take, man. Sure, there may be some percent of this population that is taking advantage. But reality is you can only cut your expenses so far. Housing, transportation, insurance, food, and medical care wipes out most of the average graduates paycheck. Look at the prices of everything then look at the averages wages people are making and just do basic math. The working class is getting squeezed from every single angle.
And while you personally may delight in the idea of garnishing the wages of millions of underpaid and overclocked working class people, that will send even more negative shockwaves through and already sketchy economy. People can't spend what they don't have. And when consumers are forced to pay loans rather than buy groceries or fix their broken cars, the entire economy takes a hit.
This is a problem that is much larger than "just pay back the loans," and it will affect everyone whether you agree with it or not.
GurProfessional9534 | 5 hours ago
Graduates are not working class, they are middle class. The working class got jobs right out of high school.
And no, evidently, if the lower socioeconomic classes are squeezed, they do not send shockwaves through the community. It is big business to take advantage of poor people. It’s more expensive to be poor than middle class. The debt and piecemeal purchasing habits are profitable. Meanwhile, they have no stocks to sell, so even if they go bankrupt it doesn’t affect the market. The wealth effect created by quickly rising market gains causes the wealthy to spend more and more-than-compensates for the struggles of the poor. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but just describing it how it is.
Good-Bandicoot-2152 | 5 hours ago
"The working class consists of people who earn their living through wages or salaries, generally performing manual, service, or administrative labor rather than relying on investment income or owning large business assets"
GurProfessional9534 | 5 hours ago
The working class is a euphemism for the uneducated class. Trump slipped up once saying, “I love the uneducated,” but as you can see, that does not sound very nice. But people take pride in their work, so more refined politicians call uneducated people the working class. In contrast, the ticket into the middle class is a college education. There are lower, middle, and upper middle class sub-sections, based on a variety of factors including salary, prestige, and level of education. The upper class is defined by people who make most of their income from investments, and can subsist on that investment income alone if need be. It is broken into two groups, the lower-upper and upper-upper classes. The lower-upper class is people who rose up into it within their own lifetimes. These are people like Steve Jobs. The upper-upper class were born into wealth, and often have perspectives that are alien to the other classes, even the lower-upper class.
bolerobell | 4 hours ago
So it sounds like you’ve bought into the propaganda that there is a difference between laborers that make minimum wage and laborers that make over $100k a year. You’re a “useful idiot” for using that investor class’ framing, assuming you aren’t independently wealthy living off a trust fund.
A person can be working class even if they are a neurosurgeon making $800k a year or a bagger making $15,080. “Middle Class People” may want to feel like they are somehow a “better” person because they drive a better car and make more than the guy sacking their groceries, but both of them depend on labor to earn wages, versus the investor class who own things and don’t have to labor to earn money to live.
Media and corporations have been using the “middle class” framing to separate those higher paid laborers from the working poor so they won’t realize their shared circumstances and act as one body politically.
GurProfessional9534 | 3 hours ago
No, this wasn’t from propaganda, it was from lecture notes. There are many differences between the social classes aside from income, and working class can make more than middle class in many cases.
tally-strobe | 5 hours ago
Back up your claim. Show the reports that demonstrate that there is an egregious number of people gaming the financial aid system in the way that you claim.
You can probably drum up an anecdote or two to confirm your bias against borrowers and poor people, but you’re ignoring the bigger picture of defaulted borrowers. Who are “more likely than non-defaulted borrowers to have a dependent child (51% vs. 26%), be a single parent (20% vs. 8%), be a first-generation student (47% vs. 30%), have attended a for-profit institution (45% vs. 17%), have not completed their program of study (49% vs. 23%), and have less than $10,000 in debt (52% vs. 38%).”*
If you really think your silly examples of Bobby and Emma are representative borrowers, then you’re genuinely stupid.
* https://www.nasfaa.org/news-item/18535/Report_Most_Who_Default_on_Student_Loans_Live_Close_to_Poverty_Dropped_Out_of_School
zhnki | 3 hours ago
If you took out a loan, pay it back like a responsible adult. That’s it. I cannot believe this is controversial.
tally-strobe | 3 hours ago
Oh, OK, that’s all. I’ll wait for you to add this dull, chucklefuck opinion to a thread the next time banks or corporations are bailed out.
Southern-Eye-9017 | 5 hours ago
300k living paycheck to paycheck is very different than someone living 60k paycheck to paycheck. Not all degrees provide the same amount of job security, some people can’t get jobs in their field, some can barely get hired.
And if someone is making 300k living paycheck to paycheck, their priorities are fucked up and deserve to get garnished wages
bolerobell | 3 hours ago
Statistically speaking , do you think the “poor money manager” who makes $300k a year but isn’t paying their student loan is the median person in this scenario?
Southern-Eye-9017 | 3 hours ago
I’m sure it was just an extreme example, but I’d assume that the median would be around 100k given that Emma can afford an overseas trip. Regardless, the cost of living has skyrocketed, most jobs aren’t accommodating for the rising costs, and most college graduates are probably nowhere near close to comfortable salary ranges
Butane9000 | 5 hours ago
It will and that isn't discussed enough. That technically college educated people make more money. They took these loans on voluntarily while others didn't. The ends result of any college loan forgiveness will be inevitable inflation by the government printing more money to service that unbacked debt.
The people who are drowning in debt not making enough to pay it back are those who took classes with no team economic end goal. These classes get government support such as social and artistic classes but don't necessarily offer a lot of economic value. While these should exist they shouldn't get unnecessary subsidies on excess of they actual economic impact.
But more importantly we need changes to better educate young people before taking on excess debt as well as reforms to hold schools accountable if they accept federal loans.
MezoDog | an hour ago
Is there a belief that you can borrow cash and not pay it back? I know that they targeted specific people, but how’s that different than other group of financial profiteers. How should we communicate with smooth-brained individuals about adult commitments.
calycocalypso | an hour ago
You can't bankrupt out student debt but you can everything else.
So yeah, there is a way to not pay debt back.
Your comparison isnt even useful its a downright detriment to your logic.
Beer_bongload | an hour ago
>Is there a belief that you can borrow cash and not pay it back?
https://directforgiveness.sba.gov/requests/borrower/login/?next=/
Let me help you out.