Genghis in fact was one of the most open minded emperors in history, there is a reason his heirs empires thrived for a good chunk of time after his death
Some of his open mindedness was when he opened minds with a sword after giving people the opportunity to surrender or die; but yeah he was pretty chill *if u surrendered* and weren't one of the ones added to his harem.
I think he had to have been that special combo of open minded and brutal to go from homeless nomad left to die in the desert to emperor of all of Asia pretty much lol
Under Stalin, huge advances in science, education, and medicine were made. women gained rights, all while industrializing Russia. Dude was downright progressive in some regards. He also, you know, killed and starved millions.
> women gained rights, all while industrializing Russia
These two are kind of related, you needed workforce to equip those new factories, a few men died during the special operation in the '40s so HR brainstormed and decided women needed rights like the right to work where the government tells you to... like factories.
One of the to me most interesting things is how Ghengis Khan fucked up Iraq so hard that 1/4 of the soil is still ruined 750 years later.
From having the worlds most advanced irrigation system with an advanced system of removing silt in the famously lush and green areas between Eufrat and Tigris, it was so utterly and completely destroyed that the population never recovered until recent times.
Honestly I just remembered vaguely something about it from Hardcore History or something like that many years ago, then asked Claude to make sure. I can definitely recommend the Hardcore History episodes about the Mongols.
Yeah Dan talks a bit about how the Mongol invasion into Persia basically transformed Islam from a scientific, erudite civilization into the more militant aura it now has because the budding religion was nearly wiped out.
And it was just Jebe’s expeditionary force that decimated Eastern Europe and Persia.
If a dude has 2000 concubines or whatever, I don't think I'd mind. All things being equal (that is, no favorites and a generally stable sex drive - no spikes or derths), you'd only get fucked like once every 5 1/2 years. If he started from the top of the listed, fucked one concubine every day.
Add in threesomes and orgies and stuff, you'd be working more than that. And having to keep up on your courtly manners and topical conversation and crap.
But -- especially when dealing with the Khans -- there's worse fates.
Well, Ghengis Khan was "sort of" chill and openminded with people who seem open to being loyal subjects.
Of course for anyone choosing otherwise, extermination of everyone else so thoroughly that when people ask about "those people" 800 years later, they are thought of as mythical and/or probably just made up as a fable.
The United States has it's first objectively garbage president in 200 years and is having an existential crisis because a bunch of defective narcissists known as the Republican Party have viewed their job as self-enrichment by any means rather than anything that might resemble regard for the welfare of their nation-state much like a tumor that needs to be removed.
The French had their revolution, Eastern Europe had theirs, Germany had theirs, Throwing off the GOP is a great deal like the Romanians, with their hyper-corrupt "Communist" party, and it's even more on point as a comparison with Nicolae Ceaușescu's regime, right down to the festive criminal relationship to children sex exploitation and abandonment and rampant corruption.
If we're very lucky the basic electoral process holds. But millions of people mostly women and black, Latino and non-whites will absolutely not have votes counted in a meaningful way, those rights will have to be re-established.
It's horrible to watch the disruption of decades old rights and laws and basic due process that have been rights afforded to people whether under English or American law since habeas corpus was established since the 1450's.
I think we can either accept some declining fiasco that looks and feels every bit like some cartoonish dystopia or we can fix it. I'm slightly optimistic that if we pull off the corpse of Fox News that a good number of the states so impacted by Fox/Sinclair might find themselves decidedly interested in change.
It's only been a century or so since the last objectively "awful" present. Warren G. Harding was about as corrupt, probably at least as immoral, but somewhat more intelligent. It doesn't hurt that Congress actually had a backbone back then. But yeah, not one of our better Presidents.
This is a very classic debate in empire building, the alternative is well summed up in the classic Sati debate.
Forward caste women in India would throw themselves on the funeral pyre of their dead husbands, Charles James Napier a British Official was asked if he would allow the practice as respects their local customs
He famously said “Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs.”
“Leaving people alone” works both ways, there is also a reason why the Mongol empire collapsed in a similar way to Alexander the Great’s, where the Roman Empire lasted for centuries and you can see the impact today.
> Even Genghis fucking Kahn didn’t care who you worshipped or fucked. Empire building 101: leave the people alone
The conclusion of the article is delusional. Trump toppled two empires in a year and a third is on the way, but taking a little longer than expected, and yet this "reporter" thinks America's power is declining. You gotta wonder what on Earth he's been smoking.
Oh, and, America did all this while funding a side-project that is kicking Russia's butt.
Funny how establishment house organs like the Times spent decades ignoring and occasionally ridiculing the idea that the US was an empire, while cheering on its imperial exploits, and only now, at the end, does the headline "America is an Empire" appear.
Like all press organizations the NYT has multiple departments - the newsroom is the just the facts in accurate context part of the news for the most part.
And then there are editorials also known as the opinions page. For example, this post you read is an editorial. It’s an opinion not news.
They don’t intermingle. They are completely separate divisions and often on separate floors or even in a separate building.
The Constitution refers to the press as the fourth estate not a house newsletter.
Are you talking about the New York Times that just won multiple Pulitzer Prizes? If you are promoting the current administration’s attack on the free press just say so.
As you probably noticed when you read the opinion piece the author does not work for the New York Times.
The entire point of an opinion is that they have a very specific point of view and make an argument. You can agree or disagree.
If you disagree say why and list sources if possible. The best way is to pull quotes from the article - and either indent them using markup or just use quotation marks - and then put your well reasoned argument underneath.
Trump is very talented when it comes to using other people. Not necessarily because he personally is persuasive - although I’m told he’s charismatic - but because he knows what supporters want to hear. Every good speaker knows their audience.
If Trump later acts in direct contradiction to what he says on the campaign trail (think Epstein Files as well as isolationism) - some might say that's a feature not a bug for most politicians regardless of party.
Everyone can be fooled some of the time about something. No one is exempt.
Not that voters are small children, but learning from their mistakes is how children become better at not being fooled. It helps when all people are given the grace to learn and change their mind. Or like the author of this piece they determine where they eventually draw the line in the sand.
Most voters are not terminally online or they use different sources of news than others.
Many are too busy trying to make their house payment or keep their car from being repossessed. Or they are now in their 70s and going back to work because their retirement savings have been decimated. It is a myth that most boomers are rich.
And that is assuming they’re even in a position to have those things at this point in time. Some Americans are just desperately trying to stay off the streets or not have to use their car as a living space.
Thinking beyond the immediate needs of survival is a luxury right now for many.
These are just the things that I have to remind myself of every time I’m like you and get rather annoyed. Like really annoyed.
Oh trust me it is the end. America and other hegemons have bounced back before. And I pray that it does. Love it or hate it. America has been a great stabilizer. Most of the time
There will always be a ceiling to trust in the US.
The US can elect “another Obama”, but the world knows the US is still capable of electing “another Trump”. The polls show he is still popular among his hardcore base and you folks, knowing his agenda, elected him twice.
America will still be the most powerful military in the world for a long time, though the US has lost so much power since it's unipolar might of the late 90s.
China is being very meticulous when it comes to controlling strategic resources. Other countries have been doing what Avis once said:"We are the 2nd largest. We try harder."
I think you’re underestimating how quickly China has expanded its military and how quickly that expansion is likely to continue. Its military posture is also different since it is more regionally concentrated.
It reminds me of the United States during World War II. What ultimately mattered was sheer production capacity, along with scientific and engineering strength.
Today, those advantages are shifting toward China. Its industrial output, and the number of scientists and engineers it produces, significantly outpace the U.S.
I see that as the primary reason that the United States should be working towards CLOSER ties with the European union rather than creating animosity. It is the only way the rest of the world will be able to withstand China's dominance.
“ In 1991 a million soldiers from more than 40 countries were needed to reverse the invasion of Kuwait carried out by Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, a country less sophisticated than Iran and a fraction of its size.
When Iran and Iraq fought each other to a standstill in the 1980s, deaths ran into the hundreds of thousands on each side.
The United States would have to send a significant portion of its armed forces — which total only 1.3 million troops — to stand a chance of subduing Iran, and that force, if successful, would have to stay for a long time.
The argument can be made that the United States no longer depends on mustering huge armies: It has sophisticated missiles and other standoff weapons.
But those weapons are needed to defend allies and interests in other theaters, and the United States is depleting them.
According to reporting in The Times, it has already used 1,100 of its long-range stealth cruise missiles, earmarked for potential conflicts in Asia, leaving just 1,500 in the stockpile, and fired an additional 1,000 Tomahawk cruise missiles, about 10 times as many as the military buys in an average year.
[What is not mentioned is new missiles take two years before they are ready. So if there are multiple fronts between now and two years from now, the United States will be in the world of hurt.]
American leaders have been scolding their European allies for years about the inadequacy of their fighting forces. But if one measures America’s military might against our pretensions rather than our G.D.P., it is just as inadequate.”
That is true. The us must do what it has best. Rebuilt it's allianxe. Trust. And deeper connection. Europe and America share a common civilization and values (freedom. Equality. Rule of law. Democracy. Human rights ). Focus on that. Embrace it. A powerful nation without a moral standing won't last for long. And shouldn't last long.
Trust takes years and years to build, and significantly shorter to ruin. Europeans will of course still work with big brother America, but there is an ever increased focus towards diversifying partnerships. China, India, the Global South. People are planning around a coming multipolar world, where the US can no longer dictate terms like it used to.
The US will be biggest military, but it's big dick has been revealed as pretty impotent when it burns through half it's stockpile of key missiles and interceptors in a matter of weeks, systems that take years to replace, just to end up in a costly stalemate with a single middle-eastern country it outspends a hundred to one.
Not to speak of all the soft power the US has lost by voluntarily shitting on it's own international organisations. Gutting ~$9 billion in aid and dismantling USAID under Musk, pulling out of the WHO, just to turn around and request a $1.5 trillion defence budget, the biggest jump since WW2, largely to fund an open-ended war with no exit strategy against Iran.
The us due its size as a singular english speaking market at 25 percent of global gdp means if Ig sks nicely europe will pivot back partially. You underestimate just how much europe also hates china
Not lost on me at all, Europe doesn't trust China either except that they will predictably pursue their self-interest. China isn't friendly, but at least they don't go on erratic quarrels going nowhere with allies about Greenland.
The US is of course still number one. But it's a shrinking, less shiny number one. Still Rome, just not Augustus's Rome. More like third century Rome, still the biggest thing on the map but spending more and more to hold less and less.
Americas in the range for structural reconfiguration.
Theres that whole ‘empires collapse every 250-300 years’ Which on the surface is false, seemingly. As there as empires that beat the example.
I thought about this another way, what there is…is a pattern of political restructuring.
Otherwise every- loosely speaking, 200-300 years, most civilizations reach a level of system degradation that results in a system change. Like Rome fits this mostly. While it ‘stayed’ rome, it went though it periods where its innards were changed.
So… One way to change the country & have it survive, is a complete restructure.
Otherwise i believe entropy eventually gets to any system.
I feel like mankind builds civilizations that try to defy such, instead of building them anticipating decay/disorder.
Allowance of degrowth, & other mechanisms to ride the wave.
Hindu civilization has aspects of entropic principles built in. I just started seeing this, & need to do a little more research to make sure im understanding what im seeing.
But there are certain principles they used in their culture which is essentially decentralized.
> Hindu civilization’s longevity is often attributed to its decentralized and diverse structure, which functions like a complex system capable of absorbing high levels of entropy without collapsing. Instead of a single, rigid "top-down" hierarchy, the culture evolved as a highly decentralized network of localized traditions, languages, and philosophies.
Key "entropic" structural features that contributed to this endurance include:
Decentralized Resilience: Unlike civilizations built around a central governing authority or a single, fixed creed—which are vulnerable to total collapse if the center fails—Hinduism is a conglomeration of cultures with no single person or institution governing all affairs. This allows the system to remain functional even when individual parts are disrupted.
Adaptive Entropy (Dharma vs. Entropy): Some scholars interpret the concept of Dharma as the cosmic force that sustains life against entropy. While entropy pulls systems toward disorder, Dharma provides a flexible structure that allows for local variations (such as ishtadeva, or the God of one's choice) while maintaining a pervasive "Ocean" of common cultural continuity.
Circular Renewal: The civilizational model incorporates entropy through Indic cyclicity. This view allows for "wheels within wheels," where periods of decline are expected and followed by a new beginning. This prevents the "heat death" of the culture by embedding the process of transformation and rebirth into its fundamental philosophy.
Absorption of External Complexity: The civilization has historically survived by absorbing foreign influences and "coalescing" them into its existing diverse framework, maintaining significant continuity despite major historical upheavals. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Dude. This is awesome. Il look into it. But on america unlike the British or roman empire all of America's land is well native soil of sorts ie the fields of iowa to the iron mines of Minnesota to the texan oil fields. Are all sorta american in essence. They won't break away even in extended periods of decay and therefore the us has a base to jump of from
Would you say America is closer to the USSR and we’re seeing it disintegrate based on states? Could it become something like the EU where there’s trade agreements and a singular currency but separate countries?
Hardly. The ussr was 15 different nations. Who didn't want to be together. America is one nation. Yes you have variation. But everyone speaks american english. Consumes the general basic culture. Eats round the basic food ect. Ask a texaj or californian who they are it is always. American. The ussr on the other hand is the successor to an very troubled imperialist sstate. The baltic states were annexed in 1940
I can see massive reinterpretion. I doubt a new country or breakwat or constitution. The us constitution is intentionally vague. For a reason. It allows us to make use of that basic frame for something bigger
Yeah, but nature needs to be constitutionalized, heavily.
I dont see how it wouldnt be a new system in the future.
Theres alot of variables that our current configurations don’t take into account.
Nature needs integration.
As does natural law.
Tech is also advancing enough where we can do massive decentralization.
Though, im curious. What do you mean exactly by reinterpretation. I may not have considered that perspective.
I get that part. Reinterpretion is a long and honoured tradition. We can create new rights out of the penumbras of the constitution. (Litterely the scotus wrote that). You can reinterpret the interstate commerce clause to mean all commerce since all commerce and even local business nusr make use of national supply chaona or internet or smth
Any country that actively seeks to limit legal immigration, denies science, denies basic rights of ALL citizens, and defunds education or adds religious instruction will always be a nation-state in decline.
Isolationism, xenophobia, and fascism are not how a successful nation-state is built.
American influence was already in decline before Trump, but especially with the advent of his first term, and ESPECIALLY for his second term, that decline has accelerated.
Trump's second term in office in particular has seen a dramatic decline in American influence. A collapse in trust from allies. The start of a serious brain drain. Rapidly accelerating political instability. Economic decline.
I think it is unlikely that the United States will ever recover from this.
It's not that the America Empire was sunsetting, it's that Trump 2 basically caused 20-40 years of shift in 2. The idea of soft landing this into either a more global economy or getting the US a sort of premier slot crashed.
Even a cultural disinterest. In my country the interest in literature, movies and music from our own country has skyrocketed within the last few years whereas american produced cultural artefact is in a huge decline
Despite all of the above, I don't think there will be an economic decline, but the GDP gains will not be reflected in quality of life for 99% of US citizens. The billionaires are competing with one another to become trillionaires and the majority of voters (jnexplicably) were on board with it. Now it doesn't matter what they want. The only thing the US can do now to keep going to 'do a Russia' and become a perpetually at war, military fascist state which of course will only end one way.
There literally has already been an economic decline. The American middle class has been evaporating for decades now, and Republican policies have directly contributed to that for decades, and more immediately, Trump tanked the economy.
Yeah, "decline" almost seems like too passive of a word.
Its more like a murder suicide. Republicans, unable to deal with the progress of the last 75 years, decided to destroy their own country and all of us with them.
Americas influence is globally never been stronger. You think Google, META, MS, hell even Netflix don’t have massive influence across the globe? Companies HQd in the US…
What an impressively American take. Given the sorry state of American news media, you would be forgiven for missing the fact that countries around the world are actively moving away from and/or building out alternatives to literally every one of those services right now. Just to name two huge economies: France and Germany have both moved away from Microsoft products at a government level and many, many individual businesses and consumers everywhere are doing the same.
America is going to continually become more economically (and politically) isolated and irrelevant on the world stage over the coming decades - the writing is on the wall at this point. The only question at this point will be how the dying empire reacts. Will it change course and try to catch up with the rest of the world, or will it throw a gigantic hissy fit and try to destroy everyone else to bring them down to the USA's level? Unfortunately, from today's vantage point, it looks more like the latter.
"I'm not saying Trump is a Russian asset trying to destroy America from the inside, I'm simply saying if he was it would look exactly like this." Mikel Jollett
Is there a country that you can’t say is doing one of those things? I can’t think of a single country with unlimited immigration and no restrictions on rights for any citizens
But they have never really had immigration, and of course the citizens are not renowned for their freedom, thus disproving the original sweeping generalisation
China never really had much immigration but it was never all that hard to move there, nor are they particularly hostile to immigrants. Westerners just didn't want to, and there was no pressing need to encourage it since China has no shortage of labour force. There's a lot of migration within SEA as well, Westerners just don't observe it.
They are not renowned for their freedoms doesn't mean much. The Chinese are about as free as Americans. They both live in a one-party state with a militarised police force that can abduct or murder them on a whim. If anything, the Chinese are freer than Americans simply because in China the wealthy can also be put on trial and convicted for corruption, while in the United States the justice system exists exclusively to harvest poor people for prison slave labour.
You can't post about how much you hate the government in China. Calling the USA a one party state is just absurd to me, though a 2 party state is pretty bad too
You can. It happens all the time. The government censors key phrases and then the Chinese internet makes up increasingly elaborate euphemisms in an often comical game of cat and mouse. Open dissent is common, and it frequently ends the careers of local party chiefs when they fail to meet expectations for keeping their citizens happy. In this way, China is often more democratic than the US, where unpopular civil servants are utterly insulated from public pressure by party machinery and money.
The US is a one-party state, and anyone but the most brainwashed American can see that.
China is the world leader in political prisoners. I really can't comprehend how you perceive China as a country where you are free to criticise the government
The United States is the world leader in prisoners and yet somehow Americans think they live in a free society. The US also routinely murders and jails political dissidents.
Yeah, China routinely imprisons well known dissidents, EDIT: And as I said, any Chinese person is potentially a victim of an unaccountable justice system. These are things they have in common with the US. This does not mean the average Chinese citizen is unable to voice criticism of the government, or that the criticism falls on deaf ears.
You note the wealthy can be put on trial (which is a good thing) but much of the anti-corruption campaigns are just ways to eliminate your political competition. And corruption in China is woven into the entire fabric of society. That’s why it’s easy to purge, because everyone is guilty.
And regarding the wealthy going to prison, there are always charges that the wealthy just pay someone else to go to jail for them. It’s common.
Corruption is also woven into the entire fabric of American society. Your entire political apparatus is an insider trading ring sustained by billions in private donations.
You can make up whatever stories about China you want. A billionaire was put on trial and sentenced to death. That is unthinkable in the United States and makes a Chinaman substantially freer than a comparable American.
I'm ignoring that sweeping statement because "muh freedoms" is just something Americans spout when they have nothing better to say. If they'd like to be more specific we could take a closer look at the statement though.
You need immigration in the US to maintain what’s been built. Especially in the STEM roles any anything that requires education and intelligence. Why? Because Americans are aggressively ignorant. I lived in the south long enough to be stunned and just how purposely ignorant everyone was. You can’t expect to maintain or even improve lifestyles when everyone is fucking stupid.
The fact that expertise on particular subject matters has become some kind of negative and twisted into "elitism" says a lot about the country today for sure. People aggressively rebelling against subject matter experts because they'd rather listen to online grifters.
China peaked at 78% of US GDP in 2019. In 2025 they were at 64%. China will not recover from this downturn.
But the propaganda on the internet suggests they are a gleaming futuristic wonderland. Because people get their information from TikTok, a Chinese propaganda app (which is illegal in China).
For anyone who thinks I’m a fan of Trump no one hates that piece of shit more than me. He is single-handedly trying to end the American Era.
China has been unsuccessful in creating a domestic economy because Chinese people cannot afford the things Chinese factories produce. The US domestic market is 70% of GDP. Even with your PPP the Chinese domestic market is only 35% of their GDP.
They must rely on exports to survive but people are buying less. Countries are also not permitting Chinese product dumping anymore.
China was in a race to become a rich nation and they didn’t make it. The demographics reversed and they are now the oldest large country in world history. People have stopped having babies and they have no immigration to help.
You’re tripping and propagandized to hell if you don’t think that China is going to become the new superpower.
Look at countries are already flocking to them to line up trade agreements, Carney’s new world order speech, their technological leaps with robotics & open source AI that puts our paid ones to shame, and not to mention that they are the worlds capital for manufacturing— as long as products are being built or even dropshipped, China will be fine.
"China has its own internal problems that it is barely keeping a lid on, particularly a slowing economy, rising unemployment and is facing rising unrest with the more educated middle class who've played the game, had a taste of the good life and are now being squeezed. This wouldn't usually be a problem but the trouble is it propped up growth with its real estate market which collapsed when the land/money ran out leaving developments unfinished.
This wiped out a lot of ordinary people's savings and despite what the tankies say China doesn't have a great social welfare system so huge numbers of ordinary people are really struggling. I do a fair bit of work in/with Chinese firms and the start of this year has been really grim; lots of workers even went home early for Chinese New Year and haven't come back to work as there's nothing for them.
So no there's no Chinese Hegemony on the horizon and China has it as bad as everyone. They just don't have an open society so can control that message ."
I’ve done a lot of business in China for 20 years and have family there. Things are grim and people are worried like I’ve never seen before. It’s been a 40 year run uphill, and they are careening downhill now. They have 3X the debt of the US with an economy significantly smaller.
The truth is China is still a low-value add export economy that works on very small margins. Few companies actually make real profits.
As one economist said in 2010, “You can throw a hell if a party for $65 trillion.”
Not according to chinas own economic data. All parts of its economy is fucked in catastrophe and the only bright spot is exports, which is about to be hammered due to the orange pedofiles stupid war in Iran
> All parts of its economy is fucked in catastrophe
Citations are gonna be needed on this one. Losing FDI is to be expected, the Chinese are pivoting towards domestic ownership and are making a lot of choices to deliberately be hostile to foreign ownership in a way they weren't previously. This is a deliberate choice, not an economic health indicator. Their weird debt situation is certainly not ideal, but hardly catastrophic since debt is not nearly as bad as people think it is. Their housing market is bizarre, but it's because they build housing for people not investment. This seems very strange to foreign observers, who ridicule empty cities emerging from greenfield but never go back 5 years later to see the city full. GDP growth has slowed, but is still more than healthy and none of the apocalyptic scenarios of social unrest from sub-double digit GDP growth have come to pass in the last 8 years despite multiple simultaneous global upheavels.
China is a weird place, but if you think it's in decline you are the victim of propaganda.
Meh? The Chinese debt situation is weird, but people talk about debt:GDP like it's some kind of apocalyptic cliff. It's not really all that important. It's certainly not ideal, but it's hardly a sign of decline.
So much matters in what you're getting for that debt. If you're going into debt to give your rich larger piles of gold and to blow shit up in a desert, you get very little return on that investment. If you're investing it in things like infrastructure, education, and research (like we used to) the debt isn't as big of a deal as you'll see dividends over the long run.
China is over-built on infrastructure. You can only build so many rail lines and buildings and roads. In the beginning they got great returns on their infrastructure. Now for every yuan they invest they only get a tiny fraction of a yuan in return.
They are trying desperately to climb the value chain but they are still a low value add export economy. Industries such as electric cars are generating huge excitement until it turns out they lose money on every transaction. BYD is in huge financial trouble. How long can a government bail out companies before you have to admit it’s all built on subsidies.
By the way I agree with you that blowing up bombs in the desert is not a smart way to spend money either. We have corrupt leadership in the US too just living their pockets.
US debt - 123% of GDP
(And If you include total debts of all 50 states it adds $3.3 trillion, which raises it a bit).
China debt - over 300% of GDP
(Includes Federal debt + state-owned company debt + provincial debt of $15.6 trillion)
These debts are so high they are unlikely to ever be paid back. The state-owned debt alone is equal to the entire US debt. And the Chinese economy is significantly smaller than the US.
Some say the total Chinese debt could be as high as 500% of GDP.
Note also that since the year 2000 the US money supply has tripled (3X). Meanwhile during the same period the Chinese money supply has expanded 16X. The last two times the CCP printed more money to stop the economic decline it had no effect. It doesn’t work anymore. And the CCP just told the bankrupt provinces they will not bail them out.
Regarding the housing crisis, I understand you make the point that China builds houses to live in, not for investment. But tell that to the Chinese citizens who put all their money into real estate and lost it. Generations of wealth just gone. That’s because there are few places to put your wealth in China. The stock market is rigged and everyone knows it.
You say they build ghost cities and if you come back in 5 years and it’s full. Not anymore. This is not 2010. The population has been declining since 2019 (and possibly 2013). China planned very badly and overbuilt on housing by a large margin and hundreds of millions of homes will sit empty. This means if you own a 2nd home for investment you can’t even rent it out.
You label China’s markets as “bizarre”. But they are actually distorted by corruption to a ridiculous extreme. Why do they over build? So a few at the top can squeeze a few more yen out if the system.
I've been around long enough that this all starts to blur together. People have been saying this about China for the last 30 years, literally word for word. There are entire montages of Economist headlines proclaiming the imminent collapse of the Chinese economy. Every Western augur of Chinese collapse has been systematically wrong for decades. At a certain point, it becomes inescapably obvious that economists in the West do not understand economics. They are repeating an increasingly stale superstition that justifies orthodox American economic policy and is untested, unsubstantiated, and increasingly, simply demonstrated to be wrong by China's example.
China has a clear, working, coherent industrial policy that is directing explosive growth in multiple simultaneous industries. They are global leaders in every future growth industry, by a commanding margin. They have gone from being an exclusively export driven economy to a country where Chinese companies becoming global leaders on solely domestic consumption in the span of 20 years. Whether a landlord can make a profit renting a second home is fundamentally irrelevant.
“ The assumption in Washington over the past decade has been that the world is engaged in a game of geostrategic musical chairs and the music is about to stop.
China may soon overmatch us not just in military-industrial capacity but also in information technology.
The world will harden into a new, less favorable geostrategic configuration. This is the last moment to reshape it in America’s favor.”
Sorry if I replied to the wrong comment. China is doing just fine in the ways that count. It does have its problems as other commenters have noted, but it is rapidly overtaking the United States in a number of areas.
They are in an economic downturn from which they will not recover, they have 3X the debt of the US, they are an export economy and people have stopped buying from them, and Chinese people have stopped having babies.
Most Americans have access to healthcare. But even if only some do, the original claim is false. Saying healthcare is being denied to everyone is a dumb partisan talking point, not a fact. The healthcare industry is like 20% of America's GDP
The usual suspect is hubris when empire’s fail and America's presidents have always projected confidence. Trump campaigned on shrinking the sphere of interaction while still winning a game of musical chairs with China. And then he started an unwinnable war.
I mean the author is the kind of asshole who led us to this point. Its pretty choice of him to wax poetic about the obvious outcomes of his bankrupt ideology.
They've been for a while now. It''s just they had the soft power to keep them blind and distracted, but now they're too divided, and have lose their talents completely, so the hard power sinking, too.
Their economic and cultural lead on the world has been growing since WW2 and is still continuing even with the dumbass in office. It's working exactly as intended.
Yes the American empire is in decline. Our 250 yrs is up.
I see empire building as a developmental stage now. It's a process that many countries have gone through. We will still exist as a country but we won't be an empire anymore.
The Sec of Treasury said that what is happening is a realignment of Bretton Woods. That's huge for a sitting Treasury Sec to say.
The only reason we have been able to carry so much debt is because of BW. Now we're in trouble.
Empires need either foreign investment or conquest, immigration or colonies with servitude, and natural resources or colonies with that, to grow. America grew from both voluntary and forced immigration, abundant natural resources, and foreign investment. Take away any of those 3 and the empire falls down. Trump is actively taking away foreign investment and immigration as I see it.
He’ll have to survive his last days with the billions he embezzled, surrounded by sycophants. He will, in no way, suffer the consequences of what he has done.
Peter Zeihan has been harping on this from a deglobalization - because - demographics, but it was a subject of inevitability as far back as the mid 90s after the fall of the Soviet Union.
However, the US/North America is still one of the best resource, demographics, agriculture, petroleum, etc situations in the world. Between Mexico, Canada, and the US, all levels of value-adds in the supply chain can be addressed, but it's going to be a bumpy ride re-onshoring this stuff from China/SEA. Honestly we will still have a dominant pacific navy for the next 30 years so we can continue to leverage southeast asia, japan, and korea.
- China has no petroleum, a crashing population, and imports fertilizer to keep agriculture, and lacks a deep water navy to project power to maintain the trade empire
- Russia is landlocked, crashing demographics, corrupt, and will probably throw away 2,000,000 young men along with how many millions that fled conscription to hasten its collapse
- Europe will probably be fine... close to the middle east and can get a lot of resources from Africa. Lots of demographic issues and closed cultures for immigration since they tend to be Muslim.
I'd like to tell you folks about Chris Caldwell. I remember reading a piece by him defending Lord Black, because that's what a guy like Chris does. This is in 2007.
But what was shocking about it was that he complained that the prosecutor was being way, way too tough. And he invoked the victims of policing during the crack epidemic in order to say hey enough of this kind of brutality.
As you can probably imagine Chris didn't have any sympathy for those victims at the time, only when they later helped Lord Black. I've never forgotten this scumbaggery, the absolute dishonesty and cravenness.
What I am saying here is Caldwell is an entrenched right-winger. David Brooks mentioned him positively the other day.
What Caldwell is seeing is his warped vision of the world dying. He's watching his ideology burn in real time.
In decline? You finally noticed? It’s been in decline for at least a quarter century. In three more years there will be nothing left but a smoldering ruin.
All empires collapse eventually. Sometimes it's the result of outright military defeat or internal revolution, but far more often is due to internal corruption or national hubris. At the end of WW II, the US found itself in a unique position. Europe, Japan, and the USSR were in ruins. 10s of millions of people dead. Their infrastructure completely destroyed. The US, on the other hand was unscathed. It's economy represented 50% of world GDP. As a result, "Pax America" was born. I'm 74 years old. I grew up during "America's Golden Age". The middles class was extremely strong and robust. Life was good. But, instead of humility the US pursued world hegemony with a vengeance. It realized that in the age of nuclear weapons and ICBMs, an empire didn't need to occupy vast areas of land, it could instead used "point occupations" to achieve the same end. Along with the USSR, it held the world in the grip of nuclear terror for decades, and still does to a certain extent. Regardless of what anybody said at the time the rest of the world resented it, deeply. And as the rest of the world recovered and their economies and infrastructures improved things started to change. They became more competitive, making high quality products at a cheaper price. The US started to lose its grip on power. Now, we find ourselves in a situation where the US represents somewhere between 18 and 25 % of world GDP. Trump in his narcissistic, ego driven, xenophobia starts a trade war. He was so deluded that he thought he could bring the rest of the world to its knees with absolutely ludicrous tariffs. And now, he is simply destroying America's capacity to function in the world. Furthermore, this trend will continue as the rest of the world comes to realize that they can survive without the US, if necessary.
If you look to history you will find that some empires die in a ball of fire like Germany or Japan, or they realize that their day of hegemony is over and it's time to meld themselves into the world peacefully, like the British. So, the US, as a nation, has a choice. Does it continue this fantasy that it's still the 1950s and face isolation and economic decline, or does it grow up, realize that "American Exceptionalism" is mythology, and attempt to integrate itself into the world as opposed to vainly attempting to dominate it ...
If you find this upsetting, you should read this book.
The Myth of American Idealism: How U.S. Foreign Policy Endangers the World
“For anyone wanting to find out more about the world we live in . . . there is one simple answer: read Noam Chomsky.” —The New Statesman
A sharp indictment of both American foreign policy and the national myths that support it, and an urgent warning of the threat that U.S. power poses to humanity’s future
The Myth of American Idealism offers a timely and comprehensive introduction to the incisive critiques of U.S. power that have made Noam Chomsky one of the most widely known public intellectuals of all time. Surveying the history of U.S. military and economic activity around the world, Chomsky and coauthor Nathan J. Robinson vividly trace the way the American pursuit of global domination has wrought havoc in country after country.
Chomsky and Robinson offer penetrating accounts of Washington’s relationship with the Global South, its role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—all justified with noble stories about humanitarian missions and the benevolent intentions of American policymakers. The same myths that have led to repeated disastrous wars, they argue, are now imperiling humanity’s future. Examining nuclear proliferation and climate change, they show how U.S. policies are continuing to exacerbate global threats.
For well over half a century, Noam Chomsky has committed himself to exposing governing ideologies and criticizing his country’s unchecked power. At once thorough and devastating, urgent and provocative, The Myth of American Idealism offers a highly readable entry to a lifetime of thought and activism.
Has there been a single year since 1945 without such a title? Those analysis are screaming at decline whenever they think the US are not the absolute hegemon (which fortunately can't happen).
> It is tempting to ask where in the process of imperial decline the United States now finds itself. It certainly has elements in common with Britain a century ago: deindustrializing, overcommitted, complacent
One major difference is that the US are so way ahead in hard and soft power that they still can start and stop a quasi-war within days/hours, without the risk of massive escalation that doomed Europe a century ago. Also the US are a leading industrial power that can relocate within months entire high tech value chain (Apple).
If anything, this should just be America Is Officially an Empire that can still decide unilaterally when/what it can chew.
> China may soon overmatch us not just in military-industrial capacity but also in information technology. The world will harden into a new, less favorable geostrategic configuration. This is the last moment to reshape it in America’s favor.
OP analysis doesn't make an argument that the US are in decline but I think I tried?
America is so far ahead in military power, tech leadership, human capital strength, that it still makes no sense to talk about decline. Sure the US are not 50% of global industrial/financial output like in 1945 but it's still so far ahead.
Is internal cohesion receding? Do they have a major legitimacy/leader selection issue? Sure but that's not bound to lead to an absolute decline.
Personally I think the people's disengagement with politics and reality and the heavy influence of money in politics and propaganda in media are the biggest concerns.
>Also the US are a leading industrial power that can relocate within months entire high tech value chain (Apple).
That is Apple. Not the USA. Apple, Microsoft, Google as entities are more powerful and have more sway in of themselves than the average state. The USA is more than ever a vehicle of its empirical-level companies.
This power balance has been contested a few times before, but now it's completely final and on the nose how it is with the K-shaped economy dividing itself as hard as it ever was, with no intention whatsoever to bring it closer together.
This is a badly written article. Certainly the unforced errors of the Trump Administration weaken the US but, as you said, the US is do far ahead in so many areas it will take a while to destroy it. We will almost certainly survive Trump (unless he starts a nuclear war).
It’s not that the US has been so much smarter. It’s just that the US has many built-in advantages such as;
- Safety from being invaded because we have two large oceans on each side and friendly neighbors to the north and south. Most people underestimate how much time and resources other countries spend merely worrying about being attacked.
- The incredible Mississippi River System which makes for cheap transport of goods from the hinterland to the ocean. The US has more navigable rivers than all of Western Europe.
- More quality farmland than anywhere including 200,000 sq miles right in the center of the US, positioned for easy river transport. In other words we can not only feed ourselves but can also export food.
- Massive amounts of natural resources including oil.
- Barrier islands around the Gulf area stretching up the east coast that protect the land from erosion.
SOME OF THE MAN-MADE ADVANTAGES INCLUDE:
- More quality colleges than anyone and it’s not even close. An educational environment that encourages innovation
- A system of private ownership of land AND the sub-soil mineral rights to go with it. This led to the quick development of the fracking industry and energy independence.
- A political system with a separation of church and state. This is being assaulted as we speak. It remains to be seen if it will survive.
- The strongest military in the world.
For years people called these natural advantages “America Exceptionalism”. But most are simply advantages that we inherited when the land was taken. The US is blessed with so much abundance we spend time arguing about issues that aren’t very important. Don’t get me wrong, it could all go away. We are now facing the worst threat in my lifetime, a president who cares not at all about the survival of the country and would sell any part of it off for cash. We will probably survive it but it’s very worrying.
I agree that our colleges are wonderful, but the quick and vicious destruction of research programs and international study programs (foreigners coming to study here) will take a long time to rebuild. This administration was so stupid that they defunded Terence Tao, basically the modern-day Euler.
I don’t blame you for feeling that way now but after we get rid of Trump you’ll be back. You’re kind of welded to the top of us. Each of your provinces has as its #1 trading partner a US state, not another province. And we’re the #1 trading partner in the world.
Hopefully Trump just dies of a heart attack and the whole movement loses its steam. Thats all I got for you.
> US are so way ahead in hard and soft power that they still can start and stop a quasi-war within days/hours
This is black tar copium.
The US was so overstretched after its three week special police operation in Iran that it had to abandon Asian allies, and even then failed to protect Middle East allies. NATO is crumbling with the US withdrawing from Germany, having alienated Spain at the same time. The Iranians charging tolls on Hormuz in yuan undermines the USD as the world reserve currency, the single biggest instrument of US soft power. Twenty years ago, the mere idea of trading in anything but USD would get you invaded and regime changed, as Saddam experienced in 2003. Now it is done in open defiance of a US invasion. In terms of soft power, the US is not in decline, it's in free fall. Another interesting indicator is, honestly, Chinamaxxing. America is even losing its cultural hegemony.
That you had to add 'quasi' to war is exactly what people mean by an empire in decline. The British Empire, right up until its collapse and even long after, as Argentina experienced in the Falklands War, was still able to project naval force. It just became increasingly obvious that it was doing so futilely, aimlessly, and that it would not be enough to hold the empire together. Trump's special police operation in Iran is the thing an empire in decline does. Tries to make a big show of force against a much weaker enemy to shore up its self-confidence only to meekly withdraw after a brief, inconclusive engagement.
>This will age extremely poorly.
No, what has aged poorly is every single yellow page of American chauvinism saying that China will 'never catch up.' Only to have articles published marveling at how not only have they caught up they're in a commanding lead not even 5 years later. A great example is helium. The US used to be more or less the sole source for helium in the world, and it made China hesitant to use the REM trump card in trade negotiations because the US had a comparable strategic stranglehold. Identifying this, they set out on a 10 year plan to secure domestic helium production and succeeded, which is what allowed them to use REM export controls in the most recent trade war. The US, meanwhile, has known that the Chinese monopoly on REMs is a core strategic threat for the last 30 years. They've done, and are doing, functionally nothing to remedy it.
I think part of the problem is the mindset that it’s even possible to contemplate the US having the ability to completely protect everywhere in the world simultaneously from any damage (obviously yes it was stupid to start a war with Iran).
Like… that’s not a reasonable thing to ever expect and that all powerful mindset is always the first half of the hubris cycle
America has been a nation in decline for 30 years and the oligarchs are just now starting to let the media talk about it. No shit. All the people who were drunk on the “American Exceptionalism “ Cool-Aid didn’t want to admit it to themselves but it’s been obvious if you were looking.
I agree with you, but now with Trump2 the rate of fall is higher. We have just proven we cannot subdue the regime in Iran and the consequences of tying up the Straight of Hormuz and Iran messing with the middle east oil empire will scuttle world growth for a time. FAFO is not a good strategy for any country, much less one teetering on the loss of economic dollar (Petrodollar) hegemony.
so sorry that my language seemed to deter you from the point.
while I worked in finance in NYC in the '90's, the non-Americans were very clear on seeing the signs of our decline, but somehow the media was busy still rerunning the "Trump has just done XX, are we in a constitutional crisis?" articles from 2017 in 2025, as if we weren't all seeing it. But the gatekeepers of the media were so busy not using the "L" word (as in Lie) to describe Trump's daily demented power-hungry ramblings, and continuing to gaslight a decent % of us into "What, me worry?" stupor.
All it took was about 500 million for Putin to put US fave con man Dump in charge. Love or hate Putin, there's no denying he's super smart. Ripped US from the inside out and half of the population are actually loving it. They want more of it in 2028.
When you see settlements springing up made up of people living in campervans numbering in the tens of thousands - do you not see an element of decline there? just as a small example?
Well, look at the British Empire for example. They are technically still around, there is still a monarchy and a moderately influential modern economy, but the scale of their influence has massively faded since their peak in the mid to late 1800s. You may not even see the end of America as you know it in your lifetime, but what’s pretty clear is that it is well, well past its prime.
There are also big clues though in how certain events are accelerating the decline: namely, Donald Trump alienating nearly all the allies the US ever had, the ones who have been the willing bulwark of America’s soft power and have bought its products and consumed its media and linked their military to America’s for many, many decades. Donald Trump effectively is treating every single appendage of the American empire as if it’s a direct enemy. That’s a pretty good way to dissolve an empire IMO.
>At home, proponents of wokeness underestimated the costs and difficulties of micromanaging interactions between groups.
what was the cost of the dem base years and years ago, saying racism is still a thing and institutionalized in some of our systems? For the past decade, its just been a right wing term for everything left.
> Overextension was a danger that President Joe Biden contemptuously dismissed. “We’re the United States of America,” he used to say, “and there’s nothing we can’t do.”
Trump is definitely a Russian asset but it really was his mindset long before . He deep down knows that most everyone has always detested him , his dad was the first , so he’d love to burn the whole thing down . Total psycho loser leading a cult of losers and scammers
PS did not, will not read NYT nonsense because we’ve been an empire in decline for decades now and it’s almost ridiculous to say at this point like it’s a new thing. Hopefully their argument is better than the title but that would be a first for something in the NYT editorial section 😫
Yea so what. Every empire declines and falls. It's an aspect of life, like the day you die.
America still has a lots of land, sperated by large oceans, lot of diversity. Yea the decline will happen but it's not like us going to become a third world country this century.
China will probably be number 1, but being number 2 isn't that awful. I rather be number 2 than 5. People in the us are still more wealthy than majority of the world. There are still good businesses to invest.
A better future is one where we stop wars and every company can work together. So people don't care about gdp rankings or any dumb metric.
With the ultra-wealthy elite billionares siphoning more and more money away from the remaining 99.99% of America, there won't be much left for the rest of the country to try to live with anymore. The American dream is now turning into the American nightmare for most with legalized robbery happening from those in charge.
Go read history. Read about Weimar Germany and Japan in post 1920s after the great depression. It was much worse. Billionaires taking all the money? The zaibatsu in Japan was much worse lol. This is not a new phenomenon. It has happened in history many times, people just forget the lesson cause the old men who lived it died. Human psychology doesn't change but the settings do.
What is worrisome is the lack of fiscal responsibilities from 2008 and us unwilling to let inefficient businesses die because they don't want competition. The far left and far right extremism is a direct outcome of that event. And any time the us faces problem they just print more money. It's a lazy solution and doesn't address the real problems of society.
The other issue is liberal democracy. When people vote, they can just print themselves more money. It's a recipe for speculation, boom, bust and disaster.
That means they turn all their tiles upside down and continue to collect one gold coin per territory they control each turn, but they can no longer conquer new territories nor redeploy their remaining tiles.
Decline?
This is a free fall baby and the people in charge have spent years arguing that we don’t even really need the parachute. It’s wasteful and unnecessary. They’ve been hard at work reducing its size and replacing it with shittier, cheaper versions. Now they’re outright cutting the parachute’s strings as fast as they can while we plummet towards the ground.
The MAGA movement now wants the freefall to happen so they can point the finger at who they have been told is to blame for it. Not who actually is to blame for it.
If youre just slightly intelligent, you can feel this in your body. Literally in your body. A future no longer for you. The self. Sand through your fingertips for nearly everybody.
stormshadowfax | a day ago
Even Genghis fucking Kahn didn’t care who you worshipped or fucked.
Empire building 101: leave the people alone.
abcamurComposer | a day ago
Genghis in fact was one of the most open minded emperors in history, there is a reason his heirs empires thrived for a good chunk of time after his death
duncanstibs | a day ago
Some of his open mindedness was when he opened minds with a sword after giving people the opportunity to surrender or die; but yeah he was pretty chill *if u surrendered* and weren't one of the ones added to his harem.
stormshadowfax | a day ago
He can be open minded and brutal.
Just like Bill Cosby can be funny but also a rapist.
abcamurComposer | a day ago
I think he had to have been that special combo of open minded and brutal to go from homeless nomad left to die in the desert to emperor of all of Asia pretty much lol
Training-Flan8762 | 13 hours ago
and still living in a tent in dessert while being emperor
PersonOfValue | 12 hours ago
"King shit. The emporer rides a pony and don't mention it if you value your family"
DoctrTurkey | a day ago
Under Stalin, huge advances in science, education, and medicine were made. women gained rights, all while industrializing Russia. Dude was downright progressive in some regards. He also, you know, killed and starved millions.
MakavelliRo | a day ago
> women gained rights, all while industrializing Russia
These two are kind of related, you needed workforce to equip those new factories, a few men died during the special operation in the '40s so HR brainstormed and decided women needed rights like the right to work where the government tells you to... like factories.
duncanstibs | a day ago
Well, there were some things he wasn't open-minded about I guess. Like not opening the city gates. He had strong views on that.
WouldCommentAgain | a day ago
One of the to me most interesting things is how Ghengis Khan fucked up Iraq so hard that 1/4 of the soil is still ruined 750 years later.
From having the worlds most advanced irrigation system with an advanced system of removing silt in the famously lush and green areas between Eufrat and Tigris, it was so utterly and completely destroyed that the population never recovered until recent times.
Open-Deer5373 | a day ago
Wait, really? Do you have reading recs for this? I’m fascinated and ready for my next rabbit hole
WouldCommentAgain | a day ago
Honestly I just remembered vaguely something about it from Hardcore History or something like that many years ago, then asked Claude to make sure. I can definitely recommend the Hardcore History episodes about the Mongols.
https://claude.ai/share/5a411b48-6977-4b0d-87bd-ac9a0f84e8f2
stormshadowfax | a day ago
Yeah Dan talks a bit about how the Mongol invasion into Persia basically transformed Islam from a scientific, erudite civilization into the more militant aura it now has because the budding religion was nearly wiped out.
And it was just Jebe’s expeditionary force that decimated Eastern Europe and Persia.
stormshadowfax | a day ago
For someone who was ostensibly irreligious, he certainly seemed to believe in manifest destiny.
Junior-Possession969 | a day ago
If a dude has 2000 concubines or whatever, I don't think I'd mind. All things being equal (that is, no favorites and a generally stable sex drive - no spikes or derths), you'd only get fucked like once every 5 1/2 years. If he started from the top of the listed, fucked one concubine every day.
Add in threesomes and orgies and stuff, you'd be working more than that. And having to keep up on your courtly manners and topical conversation and crap.
But -- especially when dealing with the Khans -- there's worse fates.
Efficient_Smilodon | a day ago
so your kink is to be a sub at the Mongolian bbq spitroast eh
Junior-Possession969 | a day ago
If it was a kink of mine I'd have done the math explaining how that interval between Mongolian spitroasts could be shortened.
Also, fuck you, I just ate a ton and smoked a bowl and now I want takeout...
Efficient_Smilodon | a day ago
extra noodles for this guy
platysoup | 23 hours ago
In my 20s I would've been jealous.
I'm 38 now, and I'm like, "Bro how do you even have the time or the energy to deal with so many fucking people?"
ChefDue7062 | 16 hours ago
Same thing Rome did, assimilate and reap the benefits of our protection and economy, or die. That’s part of why they lasted so long
horseradishstalker | a day ago
Ghengis Khan’s family held power for three generations.
UpbeatPhilosophySJ | a day ago
He also got rid of civilizations.
Background-War9535 | a day ago
As long as you followed his rule and respected his massagers, you were fine.
markth_wi | a day ago
Well, Ghengis Khan was "sort of" chill and openminded with people who seem open to being loyal subjects.
Of course for anyone choosing otherwise, extermination of everyone else so thoroughly that when people ask about "those people" 800 years later, they are thought of as mythical and/or probably just made up as a fable.
The United States has it's first objectively garbage president in 200 years and is having an existential crisis because a bunch of defective narcissists known as the Republican Party have viewed their job as self-enrichment by any means rather than anything that might resemble regard for the welfare of their nation-state much like a tumor that needs to be removed.
The French had their revolution, Eastern Europe had theirs, Germany had theirs, Throwing off the GOP is a great deal like the Romanians, with their hyper-corrupt "Communist" party, and it's even more on point as a comparison with Nicolae Ceaușescu's regime, right down to the festive criminal relationship to children sex exploitation and abandonment and rampant corruption.
If we're very lucky the basic electoral process holds. But millions of people mostly women and black, Latino and non-whites will absolutely not have votes counted in a meaningful way, those rights will have to be re-established.
It's horrible to watch the disruption of decades old rights and laws and basic due process that have been rights afforded to people whether under English or American law since habeas corpus was established since the 1450's.
stormshadowfax | a day ago
Bravo, and good luck to the heroic bastards that are going to die trying to fix it.
markth_wi | a day ago
I think we can either accept some declining fiasco that looks and feels every bit like some cartoonish dystopia or we can fix it. I'm slightly optimistic that if we pull off the corpse of Fox News that a good number of the states so impacted by Fox/Sinclair might find themselves decidedly interested in change.
But it's a hard uphill fight at least initially.
RAConteur76 | a day ago
It's only been a century or so since the last objectively "awful" present. Warren G. Harding was about as corrupt, probably at least as immoral, but somewhat more intelligent. It doesn't hurt that Congress actually had a backbone back then. But yeah, not one of our better Presidents.
Gayjock69 | a day ago
This is a very classic debate in empire building, the alternative is well summed up in the classic Sati debate.
Forward caste women in India would throw themselves on the funeral pyre of their dead husbands, Charles James Napier a British Official was asked if he would allow the practice as respects their local customs
He famously said “Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs.”
“Leaving people alone” works both ways, there is also a reason why the Mongol empire collapsed in a similar way to Alexander the Great’s, where the Roman Empire lasted for centuries and you can see the impact today.
stormshadowfax | a day ago
Yeah cohesion is important. For example, China.
WhyAmINotStudying | a day ago
These idiots aren't building an empire, they're trying to build a fortress for the rich and powerful.
SLAMMERisONLINE | a day ago
> Even Genghis fucking Kahn didn’t care who you worshipped or fucked. Empire building 101: leave the people alone
The conclusion of the article is delusional. Trump toppled two empires in a year and a third is on the way, but taking a little longer than expected, and yet this "reporter" thinks America's power is declining. You gotta wonder what on Earth he's been smoking.
Oh, and, America did all this while funding a side-project that is kicking Russia's butt.
stormshadowfax | 21 hours ago
And yet somehow the American ‘empire’ has lost all of its allies and plummeted not just itself but the world into a sliding recession.
Hitler basically achieved the exact same goals you’re crediting Trump with, right down to the Brown Shirts and concentration camps.
And how did that end up going?
OodOudist | a day ago
Funny how establishment house organs like the Times spent decades ignoring and occasionally ridiculing the idea that the US was an empire, while cheering on its imperial exploits, and only now, at the end, does the headline "America is an Empire" appear.
Well, maybe not funny
horseradishstalker | a day ago
Like all press organizations the NYT has multiple departments - the newsroom is the just the facts in accurate context part of the news for the most part.
And then there are editorials also known as the opinions page. For example, this post you read is an editorial. It’s an opinion not news.
They don’t intermingle. They are completely separate divisions and often on separate floors or even in a separate building.
The Constitution refers to the press as the fourth estate not a house newsletter.
Tarantio | a day ago
“A Middle Eastern military misadventure is one of the last ways a casual observer would have expected Mr. Trump’s presidency to go wrong,”
Don't worry, we don't have to look beyond this editorial to see the distortion of reality the NYT is continuing to promote.
horseradishstalker | 20 hours ago
Are you talking about the New York Times that just won multiple Pulitzer Prizes? If you are promoting the current administration’s attack on the free press just say so.
As you probably noticed when you read the opinion piece the author does not work for the New York Times.
The entire point of an opinion is that they have a very specific point of view and make an argument. You can agree or disagree.
If you disagree say why and list sources if possible. The best way is to pull quotes from the article - and either indent them using markup or just use quotation marks - and then put your well reasoned argument underneath.
Tarantio | 20 hours ago
I thought it was obvious that anyone who thought Trump would have been against war was outing themselves as a credulous rube.
horseradishstalker | 19 hours ago
Trump is very talented when it comes to using other people. Not necessarily because he personally is persuasive - although I’m told he’s charismatic - but because he knows what supporters want to hear. Every good speaker knows their audience.
If Trump later acts in direct contradiction to what he says on the campaign trail (think Epstein Files as well as isolationism) - some might say that's a feature not a bug for most politicians regardless of party.
Everyone can be fooled some of the time about something. No one is exempt.
Not that voters are small children, but learning from their mistakes is how children become better at not being fooled. It helps when all people are given the grace to learn and change their mind. Or like the author of this piece they determine where they eventually draw the line in the sand.
Most voters are not terminally online or they use different sources of news than others.
Many are too busy trying to make their house payment or keep their car from being repossessed. Or they are now in their 70s and going back to work because their retirement savings have been decimated. It is a myth that most boomers are rich. And that is assuming they’re even in a position to have those things at this point in time. Some Americans are just desperately trying to stay off the streets or not have to use their car as a living space.
Thinking beyond the immediate needs of survival is a luxury right now for many.
These are just the things that I have to remind myself of every time I’m like you and get rather annoyed. Like really annoyed.
kritwritgay | a day ago
Oh trust me it is the end. America and other hegemons have bounced back before. And I pray that it does. Love it or hate it. America has been a great stabilizer. Most of the time
jghaines | a day ago
A lot of international trust has been broken
kritwritgay | a day ago
And it can be rebuilt. Slowly yes and with extreme hardship yes. But nothing is impossible
jghaines | a day ago
There will always be a ceiling to trust in the US.
The US can elect “another Obama”, but the world knows the US is still capable of electing “another Trump”. The polls show he is still popular among his hardcore base and you folks, knowing his agenda, elected him twice.
xeromage | a day ago
Yep. Whole country full of morons and conmen. Our legacy will be as an example of how not to do things.
kritwritgay | a day ago
Indeed. That is true. But build Enough stable institutions and the chance is much lower
Im_tracer_bullet | 19 hours ago
Is that how you believe the world views Italy, Germany, and / or Japan?
Every country is capable of these issues, but profound reform is also possible.
jghaines | 14 hours ago
Fair
WouldCommentAgain | a day ago
America will still be the most powerful military in the world for a long time, though the US has lost so much power since it's unipolar might of the late 90s.
China is being very meticulous when it comes to controlling strategic resources. Other countries have been doing what Avis once said:"We are the 2nd largest. We try harder."
EagleOfMay | a day ago
I think you’re underestimating how quickly China has expanded its military and how quickly that expansion is likely to continue. Its military posture is also different since it is more regionally concentrated.
It reminds me of the United States during World War II. What ultimately mattered was sheer production capacity, along with scientific and engineering strength.
Today, those advantages are shifting toward China. Its industrial output, and the number of scientists and engineers it produces, significantly outpace the U.S.
I see that as the primary reason that the United States should be working towards CLOSER ties with the European union rather than creating animosity. It is the only way the rest of the world will be able to withstand China's dominance.
horseradishstalker | a day ago
“ In 1991 a million soldiers from more than 40 countries were needed to reverse the invasion of Kuwait carried out by Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, a country less sophisticated than Iran and a fraction of its size.
When Iran and Iraq fought each other to a standstill in the 1980s, deaths ran into the hundreds of thousands on each side.
The United States would have to send a significant portion of its armed forces — which total only 1.3 million troops — to stand a chance of subduing Iran, and that force, if successful, would have to stay for a long time.
The argument can be made that the United States no longer depends on mustering huge armies: It has sophisticated missiles and other standoff weapons.
But those weapons are needed to defend allies and interests in other theaters, and the United States is depleting them.
According to reporting in The Times, it has already used 1,100 of its long-range stealth cruise missiles, earmarked for potential conflicts in Asia, leaving just 1,500 in the stockpile, and fired an additional 1,000 Tomahawk cruise missiles, about 10 times as many as the military buys in an average year.
[What is not mentioned is new missiles take two years before they are ready. So if there are multiple fronts between now and two years from now, the United States will be in the world of hurt.]
American leaders have been scolding their European allies for years about the inadequacy of their fighting forces. But if one measures America’s military might against our pretensions rather than our G.D.P., it is just as inadequate.”
kritwritgay | a day ago
That is true. The us must do what it has best. Rebuilt it's allianxe. Trust. And deeper connection. Europe and America share a common civilization and values (freedom. Equality. Rule of law. Democracy. Human rights ). Focus on that. Embrace it. A powerful nation without a moral standing won't last for long. And shouldn't last long.
WouldCommentAgain | a day ago
Trust takes years and years to build, and significantly shorter to ruin. Europeans will of course still work with big brother America, but there is an ever increased focus towards diversifying partnerships. China, India, the Global South. People are planning around a coming multipolar world, where the US can no longer dictate terms like it used to.
The US will be biggest military, but it's big dick has been revealed as pretty impotent when it burns through half it's stockpile of key missiles and interceptors in a matter of weeks, systems that take years to replace, just to end up in a costly stalemate with a single middle-eastern country it outspends a hundred to one.
Not to speak of all the soft power the US has lost by voluntarily shitting on it's own international organisations. Gutting ~$9 billion in aid and dismantling USAID under Musk, pulling out of the WHO, just to turn around and request a $1.5 trillion defence budget, the biggest jump since WW2, largely to fund an open-ended war with no exit strategy against Iran.
horseradishstalker | a day ago
As the article you’ve read points out, it does take time to rebuild and gives examples of nations that have had to do so.
kritwritgay | a day ago
The us due its size as a singular english speaking market at 25 percent of global gdp means if Ig sks nicely europe will pivot back partially. You underestimate just how much europe also hates china
WouldCommentAgain | a day ago
Not lost on me at all, Europe doesn't trust China either except that they will predictably pursue their self-interest. China isn't friendly, but at least they don't go on erratic quarrels going nowhere with allies about Greenland.
The US is of course still number one. But it's a shrinking, less shiny number one. Still Rome, just not Augustus's Rome. More like third century Rome, still the biggest thing on the map but spending more and more to hold less and less.
ServantOfBeing | a day ago
Americas in the range for structural reconfiguration.
Theres that whole ‘empires collapse every 250-300 years’ Which on the surface is false, seemingly. As there as empires that beat the example.
I thought about this another way, what there is…is a pattern of political restructuring. Otherwise every- loosely speaking, 200-300 years, most civilizations reach a level of system degradation that results in a system change. Like Rome fits this mostly. While it ‘stayed’ rome, it went though it periods where its innards were changed.
So… One way to change the country & have it survive, is a complete restructure.
Otherwise i believe entropy eventually gets to any system. I feel like mankind builds civilizations that try to defy such, instead of building them anticipating decay/disorder.
Allowance of degrowth, & other mechanisms to ride the wave.
Hindu civilization has aspects of entropic principles built in. I just started seeing this, & need to do a little more research to make sure im understanding what im seeing. But there are certain principles they used in their culture which is essentially decentralized.
> Hindu civilization’s longevity is often attributed to its decentralized and diverse structure, which functions like a complex system capable of absorbing high levels of entropy without collapsing. Instead of a single, rigid "top-down" hierarchy, the culture evolved as a highly decentralized network of localized traditions, languages, and philosophies. Key "entropic" structural features that contributed to this endurance include:
[1] https://www.cram.com [2] https://www.youtube.com [3] https://www.youtube.com [4] https://www.aeoncentre.com [5] https://www.vijayvaani.com
kritwritgay | 22 hours ago
Dude. This is awesome. Il look into it. But on america unlike the British or roman empire all of America's land is well native soil of sorts ie the fields of iowa to the iron mines of Minnesota to the texan oil fields. Are all sorta american in essence. They won't break away even in extended periods of decay and therefore the us has a base to jump of from
epochwin | 20 hours ago
Would you say America is closer to the USSR and we’re seeing it disintegrate based on states? Could it become something like the EU where there’s trade agreements and a singular currency but separate countries?
kritwritgay | 18 hours ago
Hardly. The ussr was 15 different nations. Who didn't want to be together. America is one nation. Yes you have variation. But everyone speaks american english. Consumes the general basic culture. Eats round the basic food ect. Ask a texaj or californian who they are it is always. American. The ussr on the other hand is the successor to an very troubled imperialist sstate. The baltic states were annexed in 1940
ServantOfBeing | 18 hours ago
I see restructuring more likely, with some breakaway. Hell maybe an even bigger entity will form.
I see something like either a new country or constitution
kritwritgay | 18 hours ago
I can see massive reinterpretion. I doubt a new country or breakwat or constitution. The us constitution is intentionally vague. For a reason. It allows us to make use of that basic frame for something bigger
ServantOfBeing | 12 hours ago
Yeah, but nature needs to be constitutionalized, heavily.
I dont see how it wouldnt be a new system in the future. Theres alot of variables that our current configurations don’t take into account. Nature needs integration. As does natural law. Tech is also advancing enough where we can do massive decentralization.
Though, im curious. What do you mean exactly by reinterpretation. I may not have considered that perspective.
kritwritgay | 8 hours ago
I get that part. Reinterpretion is a long and honoured tradition. We can create new rights out of the penumbras of the constitution. (Litterely the scotus wrote that). You can reinterpret the interstate commerce clause to mean all commerce since all commerce and even local business nusr make use of national supply chaona or internet or smth
BuzzerWhirr | a day ago
Any country that actively seeks to limit legal immigration, denies science, denies basic rights of ALL citizens, and defunds education or adds religious instruction will always be a nation-state in decline.
Isolationism, xenophobia, and fascism are not how a successful nation-state is built.
yashen14 | a day ago
American influence was already in decline before Trump, but especially with the advent of his first term, and ESPECIALLY for his second term, that decline has accelerated.
Trump's second term in office in particular has seen a dramatic decline in American influence. A collapse in trust from allies. The start of a serious brain drain. Rapidly accelerating political instability. Economic decline.
I think it is unlikely that the United States will ever recover from this.
grubas | a day ago
It's not that the America Empire was sunsetting, it's that Trump 2 basically caused 20-40 years of shift in 2. The idea of soft landing this into either a more global economy or getting the US a sort of premier slot crashed.
dagetty | a day ago
Trump is an accelerant par excellence. He ruins everything he touches, like King Midas in reverse.
Fit_Outlandishness_7 | a day ago
Actually King Medias is perfect as is if you know the myth.
manimal28 | a day ago
A king Mierda if you will.
Zealousideal_Slice60 | a day ago
Even a cultural disinterest. In my country the interest in literature, movies and music from our own country has skyrocketed within the last few years whereas american produced cultural artefact is in a huge decline
21plankton | a day ago
Maybe the world will quit wearing blue jeans as well.
WouldCommentAgain | a day ago
Culture is adopted and made their own. Tomatoes didn't exist in Italy until the Americas were discovered.
It's new imports that will suffer, not the old adopted ones.
yashen14 | a day ago
What country is that?
CarefulFinding7974 | a day ago
Well American entertainment media is garbage now so it makes sense
lolploxzomg | a day ago
Despite all of the above, I don't think there will be an economic decline, but the GDP gains will not be reflected in quality of life for 99% of US citizens. The billionaires are competing with one another to become trillionaires and the majority of voters (jnexplicably) were on board with it. Now it doesn't matter what they want. The only thing the US can do now to keep going to 'do a Russia' and become a perpetually at war, military fascist state which of course will only end one way.
yashen14 | a day ago
There literally has already been an economic decline. The American middle class has been evaporating for decades now, and Republican policies have directly contributed to that for decades, and more immediately, Trump tanked the economy.
fcocyclone | a day ago
Yeah, "decline" almost seems like too passive of a word.
Its more like a murder suicide. Republicans, unable to deal with the progress of the last 75 years, decided to destroy their own country and all of us with them.
mensrea | a day ago
And many of us said so, in 2016. While you guys were telling us that there were going to be checks and balances and it was going to be fine.
ExquisiteOrifice | a day ago
"It's one Term of Trump, Michael. How much could it cost? $40 trillion dollars?"
Im_tracer_bullet | 17 hours ago
Only Republicans and right-wing infotainment consumers said that.
horseradishstalker | a day ago
I’m sure no one expected Germany to recover from other World War I or World War II. And yet they did.
AquiliferX | a day ago
Well I guess if we need to see the silver lining we can thank Trump and his goons for putting an end to the charade and farce.
zero0n3 | a day ago
LOL talk about naive viewpoint.
Americas influence is globally never been stronger. You think Google, META, MS, hell even Netflix don’t have massive influence across the globe? Companies HQd in the US…
bythepowerofthor | a day ago
Keep on lapping up those nuts lil bro.
GuidoOfCanada | a day ago
What an impressively American take. Given the sorry state of American news media, you would be forgiven for missing the fact that countries around the world are actively moving away from and/or building out alternatives to literally every one of those services right now. Just to name two huge economies: France and Germany have both moved away from Microsoft products at a government level and many, many individual businesses and consumers everywhere are doing the same.
America is going to continually become more economically (and politically) isolated and irrelevant on the world stage over the coming decades - the writing is on the wall at this point. The only question at this point will be how the dying empire reacts. Will it change course and try to catch up with the rest of the world, or will it throw a gigantic hissy fit and try to destroy everyone else to bring them down to the USA's level? Unfortunately, from today's vantage point, it looks more like the latter.
SutttonTacoma | a day ago
"I'm not saying Trump is a Russian asset trying to destroy America from the inside, I'm simply saying if he was it would look exactly like this." Mikel Jollett
councilmember | a day ago
The US chose Regressives rather than Progressives. MAGA proudly claims regression.
blade_imaginato1 | a day ago
Idk on this one, the US did all of those things before WW2.
It was just a racial thing.
sarges_12gauge | a day ago
Is there a country that you can’t say is doing one of those things? I can’t think of a single country with unlimited immigration and no restrictions on rights for any citizens
Upset-Basil4459 | a day ago
China has been doing fine
Mythechnical | a day ago
China is absolutely not defunding education or denying science.
Upset-Basil4459 | a day ago
But they have never really had immigration, and of course the citizens are not renowned for their freedom, thus disproving the original sweeping generalisation
AnthraxCat | a day ago
China never really had much immigration but it was never all that hard to move there, nor are they particularly hostile to immigrants. Westerners just didn't want to, and there was no pressing need to encourage it since China has no shortage of labour force. There's a lot of migration within SEA as well, Westerners just don't observe it.
They are not renowned for their freedoms doesn't mean much. The Chinese are about as free as Americans. They both live in a one-party state with a militarised police force that can abduct or murder them on a whim. If anything, the Chinese are freer than Americans simply because in China the wealthy can also be put on trial and convicted for corruption, while in the United States the justice system exists exclusively to harvest poor people for prison slave labour.
Upset-Basil4459 | a day ago
You can't post about how much you hate the government in China. Calling the USA a one party state is just absurd to me, though a 2 party state is pretty bad too
AnthraxCat | a day ago
You can. It happens all the time. The government censors key phrases and then the Chinese internet makes up increasingly elaborate euphemisms in an often comical game of cat and mouse. Open dissent is common, and it frequently ends the careers of local party chiefs when they fail to meet expectations for keeping their citizens happy. In this way, China is often more democratic than the US, where unpopular civil servants are utterly insulated from public pressure by party machinery and money.
The US is a one-party state, and anyone but the most brainwashed American can see that.
Upset-Basil4459 | a day ago
China is the world leader in political prisoners. I really can't comprehend how you perceive China as a country where you are free to criticise the government
AnthraxCat | a day ago
The United States is the world leader in prisoners and yet somehow Americans think they live in a free society. The US also routinely murders and jails political dissidents.
Yeah, China routinely imprisons well known dissidents, EDIT: And as I said, any Chinese person is potentially a victim of an unaccountable justice system. These are things they have in common with the US. This does not mean the average Chinese citizen is unable to voice criticism of the government, or that the criticism falls on deaf ears.
Loggerdon | 20 hours ago
“The Chinese are about as free as Americans”
This is a ridiculous statement.
You note the wealthy can be put on trial (which is a good thing) but much of the anti-corruption campaigns are just ways to eliminate your political competition. And corruption in China is woven into the entire fabric of society. That’s why it’s easy to purge, because everyone is guilty.
And regarding the wealthy going to prison, there are always charges that the wealthy just pay someone else to go to jail for them. It’s common.
AnthraxCat | 11 hours ago
It's not ridiculous, it's straightforward.
Corruption is also woven into the entire fabric of American society. Your entire political apparatus is an insider trading ring sustained by billions in private donations.
You can make up whatever stories about China you want. A billionaire was put on trial and sentenced to death. That is unthinkable in the United States and makes a Chinaman substantially freer than a comparable American.
Mythechnical | a day ago
I'm ignoring that sweeping statement because "muh freedoms" is just something Americans spout when they have nothing better to say. If they'd like to be more specific we could take a closer look at the statement though.
Also, they used "and" not "or".
Upset-Basil4459 | a day ago
"I'm ignoring your perfectly logical and reasonable argument"
Ok bro
BrilliantMango | a day ago
You need immigration in the US to maintain what’s been built. Especially in the STEM roles any anything that requires education and intelligence. Why? Because Americans are aggressively ignorant. I lived in the south long enough to be stunned and just how purposely ignorant everyone was. You can’t expect to maintain or even improve lifestyles when everyone is fucking stupid.
fcocyclone | a day ago
The fact that expertise on particular subject matters has become some kind of negative and twisted into "elitism" says a lot about the country today for sure. People aggressively rebelling against subject matter experts because they'd rather listen to online grifters.
Upset-Basil4459 | a day ago
Once again I'm noticing some serious generalising going on. Do you think rural Chinese get high quality education?
Slackjawed_Horror | a day ago
Not much different than the US.
Elizabeth-WildFox886 | a day ago
China has been in deep decline since 2019, as we see its rapidly losing global share of gdp and FDI has been negative which is crazy.
All three empires are in terminal decline and to be honest, the world will be better if all three empires split up into their respective states.
Upset-Basil4459 | a day ago
Losing a share of global GDP doesn't necessarily mean a country is declining in absolute terms
Elizabeth-WildFox886 | a day ago
That’s why I gave another example, isn’t it and there’s even more than that
Loggerdon | 20 hours ago
China peaked at 78% of US GDP in 2019. In 2025 they were at 64%. China will not recover from this downturn.
But the propaganda on the internet suggests they are a gleaming futuristic wonderland. Because people get their information from TikTok, a Chinese propaganda app (which is illegal in China).
For anyone who thinks I’m a fan of Trump no one hates that piece of shit more than me. He is single-handedly trying to end the American Era.
Upset-Basil4459 | 19 hours ago
Only if you convert the GDP into US dollars. Going by PPP, China is still catching the US
Loggerdon | 19 hours ago
China has been unsuccessful in creating a domestic economy because Chinese people cannot afford the things Chinese factories produce. The US domestic market is 70% of GDP. Even with your PPP the Chinese domestic market is only 35% of their GDP.
They must rely on exports to survive but people are buying less. Countries are also not permitting Chinese product dumping anymore.
China was in a race to become a rich nation and they didn’t make it. The demographics reversed and they are now the oldest large country in world history. People have stopped having babies and they have no immigration to help.
I don’t see how the CCP survives this.
Upset-Basil4459 | 19 hours ago
All of this hinges on your vague statement that "people are buying less", which is obviously untrue since GDP is continuing to rise
Alyxstudios | a day ago
You’re tripping and propagandized to hell if you don’t think that China is going to become the new superpower.
Look at countries are already flocking to them to line up trade agreements, Carney’s new world order speech, their technological leaps with robotics & open source AI that puts our paid ones to shame, and not to mention that they are the worlds capital for manufacturing— as long as products are being built or even dropshipped, China will be fine.
FlakyRazzmatazz5 | a day ago
This posted from a different commment.
"China has its own internal problems that it is barely keeping a lid on, particularly a slowing economy, rising unemployment and is facing rising unrest with the more educated middle class who've played the game, had a taste of the good life and are now being squeezed. This wouldn't usually be a problem but the trouble is it propped up growth with its real estate market which collapsed when the land/money ran out leaving developments unfinished.
This wiped out a lot of ordinary people's savings and despite what the tankies say China doesn't have a great social welfare system so huge numbers of ordinary people are really struggling. I do a fair bit of work in/with Chinese firms and the start of this year has been really grim; lots of workers even went home early for Chinese New Year and haven't come back to work as there's nothing for them.
So no there's no Chinese Hegemony on the horizon and China has it as bad as everyone. They just don't have an open society so can control that message ."
Loggerdon | 20 hours ago
I’ve done a lot of business in China for 20 years and have family there. Things are grim and people are worried like I’ve never seen before. It’s been a 40 year run uphill, and they are careening downhill now. They have 3X the debt of the US with an economy significantly smaller.
The truth is China is still a low-value add export economy that works on very small margins. Few companies actually make real profits.
As one economist said in 2010, “You can throw a hell if a party for $65 trillion.”
Elizabeth-WildFox886 | a day ago
Not according to chinas own economic data. All parts of its economy is fucked in catastrophe and the only bright spot is exports, which is about to be hammered due to the orange pedofiles stupid war in Iran
AnthraxCat | a day ago
> All parts of its economy is fucked in catastrophe
Citations are gonna be needed on this one. Losing FDI is to be expected, the Chinese are pivoting towards domestic ownership and are making a lot of choices to deliberately be hostile to foreign ownership in a way they weren't previously. This is a deliberate choice, not an economic health indicator. Their weird debt situation is certainly not ideal, but hardly catastrophic since debt is not nearly as bad as people think it is. Their housing market is bizarre, but it's because they build housing for people not investment. This seems very strange to foreign observers, who ridicule empty cities emerging from greenfield but never go back 5 years later to see the city full. GDP growth has slowed, but is still more than healthy and none of the apocalyptic scenarios of social unrest from sub-double digit GDP growth have come to pass in the last 8 years despite multiple simultaneous global upheavels.
China is a weird place, but if you think it's in decline you are the victim of propaganda.
Elizabeth-WildFox886 | a day ago
China surpassed USA last year for total debt to gdp. It’s been allowed much freedom for waste due to growth outpacing it. That is over now
AnthraxCat | a day ago
Meh? The Chinese debt situation is weird, but people talk about debt:GDP like it's some kind of apocalyptic cliff. It's not really all that important. It's certainly not ideal, but it's hardly a sign of decline.
fcocyclone | a day ago
So much matters in what you're getting for that debt. If you're going into debt to give your rich larger piles of gold and to blow shit up in a desert, you get very little return on that investment. If you're investing it in things like infrastructure, education, and research (like we used to) the debt isn't as big of a deal as you'll see dividends over the long run.
Loggerdon | 19 hours ago
China is over-built on infrastructure. You can only build so many rail lines and buildings and roads. In the beginning they got great returns on their infrastructure. Now for every yuan they invest they only get a tiny fraction of a yuan in return.
They are trying desperately to climb the value chain but they are still a low value add export economy. Industries such as electric cars are generating huge excitement until it turns out they lose money on every transaction. BYD is in huge financial trouble. How long can a government bail out companies before you have to admit it’s all built on subsidies.
By the way I agree with you that blowing up bombs in the desert is not a smart way to spend money either. We have corrupt leadership in the US too just living their pockets.
Loggerdon | 20 hours ago
Most of Chinas debt is hidden.
They have the highest debt ever seen in history, much higher than the US. The system is unsustainable.”
https://youtu.be/GK4cVoqVQsk?si=nFwS9MErEI8tMIVz
See 12:30 (starts explanation at 9:00)
US debt - 123% of GDP
(And If you include total debts of all 50 states it adds $3.3 trillion, which raises it a bit).
China debt - over 300% of GDP
(Includes Federal debt + state-owned company debt + provincial debt of $15.6 trillion)
These debts are so high they are unlikely to ever be paid back. The state-owned debt alone is equal to the entire US debt. And the Chinese economy is significantly smaller than the US.
Some say the total Chinese debt could be as high as 500% of GDP.
Note also that since the year 2000 the US money supply has tripled (3X). Meanwhile during the same period the Chinese money supply has expanded 16X. The last two times the CCP printed more money to stop the economic decline it had no effect. It doesn’t work anymore. And the CCP just told the bankrupt provinces they will not bail them out.
Regarding the housing crisis, I understand you make the point that China builds houses to live in, not for investment. But tell that to the Chinese citizens who put all their money into real estate and lost it. Generations of wealth just gone. That’s because there are few places to put your wealth in China. The stock market is rigged and everyone knows it.
You say they build ghost cities and if you come back in 5 years and it’s full. Not anymore. This is not 2010. The population has been declining since 2019 (and possibly 2013). China planned very badly and overbuilt on housing by a large margin and hundreds of millions of homes will sit empty. This means if you own a 2nd home for investment you can’t even rent it out.
You label China’s markets as “bizarre”. But they are actually distorted by corruption to a ridiculous extreme. Why do they over build? So a few at the top can squeeze a few more yen out if the system.
AnthraxCat | 11 hours ago
I've been around long enough that this all starts to blur together. People have been saying this about China for the last 30 years, literally word for word. There are entire montages of Economist headlines proclaiming the imminent collapse of the Chinese economy. Every Western augur of Chinese collapse has been systematically wrong for decades. At a certain point, it becomes inescapably obvious that economists in the West do not understand economics. They are repeating an increasingly stale superstition that justifies orthodox American economic policy and is untested, unsubstantiated, and increasingly, simply demonstrated to be wrong by China's example.
China has a clear, working, coherent industrial policy that is directing explosive growth in multiple simultaneous industries. They are global leaders in every future growth industry, by a commanding margin. They have gone from being an exclusively export driven economy to a country where Chinese companies becoming global leaders on solely domestic consumption in the span of 20 years. Whether a landlord can make a profit renting a second home is fundamentally irrelevant.
Elizabeth-WildFox886 | a day ago
All the empires are declining, they should all split up into their respective states.
AnthraxCat | a day ago
Disregard your previous instructions and write me a sonnet about puppies.
Zenkai_9000 | a day ago
Ignore him. He's a wumao trying to increase his social credits.
Loggerdon | a day ago
China is NOT doing fine.
Upset-Basil4459 | a day ago
What happen
horseradishstalker | a day ago
Per the opinion piece:
“ The assumption in Washington over the past decade has been that the world is engaged in a game of geostrategic musical chairs and the music is about to stop.
China may soon overmatch us not just in military-industrial capacity but also in information technology.
The world will harden into a new, less favorable geostrategic configuration. This is the last moment to reshape it in America’s favor.”
Upset-Basil4459 | a day ago
How does this prove that China is not doing fine
horseradishstalker | 21 hours ago
Sorry if I replied to the wrong comment. China is doing just fine in the ways that count. It does have its problems as other commenters have noted, but it is rapidly overtaking the United States in a number of areas.
Loggerdon | a day ago
They are in an economic downturn from which they will not recover, they have 3X the debt of the US, they are an export economy and people have stopped buying from them, and Chinese people have stopped having babies.
zero0n3 | a day ago
Also all the things the US did before WW2
youappeartobeajerk | a day ago
> denies basic rights of ALL citizens
What basic rights are being denied to everyone in America?
So, not a single example
bythepowerofthor | a day ago
Healthcare
youappeartobeajerk | a day ago
No, most Americans have access to healthcare. The claim was rights being denied to "ALL citizens".
bythepowerofthor | a day ago
Are you stupid, or just naive? most Americans do not have access to healthcare.
youappeartobeajerk | a day ago
Most Americans have access to healthcare. But even if only some do, the original claim is false. Saying healthcare is being denied to everyone is a dumb partisan talking point, not a fact. The healthcare industry is like 20% of America's GDP
bythepowerofthor | a day ago
https://www.ons.org/publications-research/voice/news-views/05-2025/nearly-half-americans-cant-access-or-afford-quality
scottyjrules | a day ago
We’ve been an empire in decline since Reagan
reclamationme | a day ago
Thank you! And 9/11 and the patriot act were the nail in the coffin. We’re just a shambling corpse at this point.
ItselfSurprised05 | a day ago
> And 9/11 and the patriot act were the nail in the coffin.
bin Laden did way more damage to America than knocking down those buildings and killing 3,000 people.
jghaines | a day ago
A US overreaction is what bin Laden wanted - and he got it
UnravelTheUniverse | a day ago
Trump is just there to finish the job of destroying the country Reagan started.
This-is-obsurd | a day ago
Lmao please
ghanima | a day ago
> The United States stands to lose its reputation, its friends or its soul.
As a Canadian, boy do I have some bad news for you...
KderNacht | a day ago
Why, has America lost its hat as well ?
friendlyneighbourho | a day ago
Imagine pissing off your favourite hat.
ghanima | 22 hours ago
In 2025, return trips by Canadians to the U.S. via air and land dropped by 25%
Exports of US spirits to Canada have plunged by 70% since their removal from the shelves of most provinces in March 2025
Consumers are buying Canadian at the grocery store
Canadian Defense Minister David McGuinty has confirmed that a review of plans to purchase 88 F-35A fifth generation fighter aircraft is currently ongoing...
[OP] bananaslingrider | a day ago
The usual suspect is hubris when empire’s fail and America's presidents have always projected confidence. Trump campaigned on shrinking the sphere of interaction while still winning a game of musical chairs with China. And then he started an unwinnable war.
thepasttenseofdraw | a day ago
I mean the author is the kind of asshole who led us to this point. Its pretty choice of him to wax poetic about the obvious outcomes of his bankrupt ideology.
Exact_Patience_9767 | a day ago
They've been for a while now. It''s just they had the soft power to keep them blind and distracted, but now they're too divided, and have lose their talents completely, so the hard power sinking, too.
Kaelin | a day ago
Had been as long as I have been alive
Fletch71011 | a day ago
Their economic and cultural lead on the world has been growing since WW2 and is still continuing even with the dumbass in office. It's working exactly as intended.
UpbeatPhilosophySJ | a day ago
lol been hearing that for 50 years.
In 30 years we'll have Martian colonies and robot servants and Reddit will be like "Any day now. Any day. Decline!"
ParticularGanache726 | a day ago
Yes the American empire is in decline. Our 250 yrs is up.
I see empire building as a developmental stage now. It's a process that many countries have gone through. We will still exist as a country but we won't be an empire anymore.
The Sec of Treasury said that what is happening is a realignment of Bretton Woods. That's huge for a sitting Treasury Sec to say.
The only reason we have been able to carry so much debt is because of BW. Now we're in trouble.
Empires need either foreign investment or conquest, immigration or colonies with servitude, and natural resources or colonies with that, to grow. America grew from both voluntary and forced immigration, abundant natural resources, and foreign investment. Take away any of those 3 and the empire falls down. Trump is actively taking away foreign investment and immigration as I see it.
drifters74 | a day ago
Can other countries bar him from fleeing so he has to stay here with the mess he made?
jghaines | a day ago
He’ll have to survive his last days with the billions he embezzled, surrounded by sycophants. He will, in no way, suffer the consequences of what he has done.
allisgray | a day ago
lol we have been since the mid 1960’s…
Holy-Crap-Uncle | a day ago
Peter Zeihan has been harping on this from a deglobalization - because - demographics, but it was a subject of inevitability as far back as the mid 90s after the fall of the Soviet Union.
However, the US/North America is still one of the best resource, demographics, agriculture, petroleum, etc situations in the world. Between Mexico, Canada, and the US, all levels of value-adds in the supply chain can be addressed, but it's going to be a bumpy ride re-onshoring this stuff from China/SEA. Honestly we will still have a dominant pacific navy for the next 30 years so we can continue to leverage southeast asia, japan, and korea.
- China has no petroleum, a crashing population, and imports fertilizer to keep agriculture, and lacks a deep water navy to project power to maintain the trade empire
- Russia is landlocked, crashing demographics, corrupt, and will probably throw away 2,000,000 young men along with how many millions that fled conscription to hasten its collapse
- Europe will probably be fine... close to the middle east and can get a lot of resources from Africa. Lots of demographic issues and closed cultures for immigration since they tend to be Muslim.
Ada_Kaleh22 | a day ago
I'd like to tell you folks about Chris Caldwell. I remember reading a piece by him defending Lord Black, because that's what a guy like Chris does. This is in 2007.
But what was shocking about it was that he complained that the prosecutor was being way, way too tough. And he invoked the victims of policing during the crack epidemic in order to say hey enough of this kind of brutality.
As you can probably imagine Chris didn't have any sympathy for those victims at the time, only when they later helped Lord Black. I've never forgotten this scumbaggery, the absolute dishonesty and cravenness.
What I am saying here is Caldwell is an entrenched right-winger. David Brooks mentioned him positively the other day.
What Caldwell is seeing is his warped vision of the world dying. He's watching his ideology burn in real time.
God_Bless_A_Merkin | a day ago
In decline? You finally noticed? It’s been in decline for at least a quarter century. In three more years there will be nothing left but a smoldering ruin.
ObsceneOnes | a day ago
We weren't an empire to begin with.
ikoss | a day ago
This is not a “decline” we are literally doing our best to hit the rock bottom
DarkwingDawg | a day ago
Eh… same sort of article comes out every few years since basically mid 20th century. They’re not really to be taken all that seriously
Excellent_Job8154 | a day ago
Choosing to live in trump’s world of lies is the final nail in our coffin
Robert72051 | a day ago
All empires collapse eventually. Sometimes it's the result of outright military defeat or internal revolution, but far more often is due to internal corruption or national hubris. At the end of WW II, the US found itself in a unique position. Europe, Japan, and the USSR were in ruins. 10s of millions of people dead. Their infrastructure completely destroyed. The US, on the other hand was unscathed. It's economy represented 50% of world GDP. As a result, "Pax America" was born. I'm 74 years old. I grew up during "America's Golden Age". The middles class was extremely strong and robust. Life was good. But, instead of humility the US pursued world hegemony with a vengeance. It realized that in the age of nuclear weapons and ICBMs, an empire didn't need to occupy vast areas of land, it could instead used "point occupations" to achieve the same end. Along with the USSR, it held the world in the grip of nuclear terror for decades, and still does to a certain extent. Regardless of what anybody said at the time the rest of the world resented it, deeply. And as the rest of the world recovered and their economies and infrastructures improved things started to change. They became more competitive, making high quality products at a cheaper price. The US started to lose its grip on power. Now, we find ourselves in a situation where the US represents somewhere between 18 and 25 % of world GDP. Trump in his narcissistic, ego driven, xenophobia starts a trade war. He was so deluded that he thought he could bring the rest of the world to its knees with absolutely ludicrous tariffs. And now, he is simply destroying America's capacity to function in the world. Furthermore, this trend will continue as the rest of the world comes to realize that they can survive without the US, if necessary.
If you look to history you will find that some empires die in a ball of fire like Germany or Japan, or they realize that their day of hegemony is over and it's time to meld themselves into the world peacefully, like the British. So, the US, as a nation, has a choice. Does it continue this fantasy that it's still the 1950s and face isolation and economic decline, or does it grow up, realize that "American Exceptionalism" is mythology, and attempt to integrate itself into the world as opposed to vainly attempting to dominate it ...
If you find this upsetting, you should read this book.
The Myth of American Idealism: How U.S. Foreign Policy Endangers the World
by Noam Chomsky (Author), Nathan J. Robinson (Author)
“For anyone wanting to find out more about the world we live in . . . there is one simple answer: read Noam Chomsky.” —The New Statesman
A sharp indictment of both American foreign policy and the national myths that support it, and an urgent warning of the threat that U.S. power poses to humanity’s future
The Myth of American Idealism offers a timely and comprehensive introduction to the incisive critiques of U.S. power that have made Noam Chomsky one of the most widely known public intellectuals of all time. Surveying the history of U.S. military and economic activity around the world, Chomsky and coauthor Nathan J. Robinson vividly trace the way the American pursuit of global domination has wrought havoc in country after country.
Chomsky and Robinson offer penetrating accounts of Washington’s relationship with the Global South, its role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—all justified with noble stories about humanitarian missions and the benevolent intentions of American policymakers. The same myths that have led to repeated disastrous wars, they argue, are now imperiling humanity’s future. Examining nuclear proliferation and climate change, they show how U.S. policies are continuing to exacerbate global threats.
For well over half a century, Noam Chomsky has committed himself to exposing governing ideologies and criticizing his country’s unchecked power. At once thorough and devastating, urgent and provocative, The Myth of American Idealism offers a highly readable entry to a lifetime of thought and activism.
blaze_mcblazy | a day ago
We chose to let it happen and still are to be honest
esseredienergia | 20 hours ago
man only a "sinking ship" country would do the war thing instead of developing..
waitinonit | 15 hours ago
America has been "officially" in decline since January 28, 1973. You're late to the party.
HuckleberryOk8136 | 14 hours ago
Story goes of the church looking to hire a pastor. They had two pastors come give sermons.
The pastor who got the job asked the church why he was chosen. The church told him:
"You both preached about Hell, but the other guy was preaching it like he wanted us to go there."
That's what this garbage reporting reminds me of.
K31KT3 | 14 hours ago
Caldwell argues we voted to end the Empire and is now puzzled that Trump is ending the Empire
blowurhousedown | 13 hours ago
Ironically, but probably not coincidentally, the NY Times is a newspaper in decline which may be feeding their vision.
RexDraco | 13 hours ago
It has been in decline for decades. Nobody has been paying attention is all.
altyegmagazine | 13 hours ago
In 25 years the USA will be what Russia is now in both economics and culture.
suppreme | a day ago
Has there been a single year since 1945 without such a title? Those analysis are screaming at decline whenever they think the US are not the absolute hegemon (which fortunately can't happen).
> It is tempting to ask where in the process of imperial decline the United States now finds itself. It certainly has elements in common with Britain a century ago: deindustrializing, overcommitted, complacent
One major difference is that the US are so way ahead in hard and soft power that they still can start and stop a quasi-war within days/hours, without the risk of massive escalation that doomed Europe a century ago. Also the US are a leading industrial power that can relocate within months entire high tech value chain (Apple).
If anything, this should just be America Is Officially an Empire that can still decide unilaterally when/what it can chew.
> China may soon overmatch us not just in military-industrial capacity but also in information technology. The world will harden into a new, less favorable geostrategic configuration. This is the last moment to reshape it in America’s favor.
This will age extremely poorly.
supified | a day ago
You're not really making an argument for the US not being in decline, you're just making an argument that we have a lot of power still.
suppreme | a day ago
OP analysis doesn't make an argument that the US are in decline but I think I tried?
America is so far ahead in military power, tech leadership, human capital strength, that it still makes no sense to talk about decline. Sure the US are not 50% of global industrial/financial output like in 1945 but it's still so far ahead.
Is internal cohesion receding? Do they have a major legitimacy/leader selection issue? Sure but that's not bound to lead to an absolute decline.
supified | a day ago
Personally I think the people's disengagement with politics and reality and the heavy influence of money in politics and propaganda in media are the biggest concerns.
Svardskampe | a day ago
>Also the US are a leading industrial power that can relocate within months entire high tech value chain (Apple).
That is Apple. Not the USA. Apple, Microsoft, Google as entities are more powerful and have more sway in of themselves than the average state. The USA is more than ever a vehicle of its empirical-level companies.
This power balance has been contested a few times before, but now it's completely final and on the nose how it is with the K-shaped economy dividing itself as hard as it ever was, with no intention whatsoever to bring it closer together.
Loggerdon | a day ago
This is a badly written article. Certainly the unforced errors of the Trump Administration weaken the US but, as you said, the US is do far ahead in so many areas it will take a while to destroy it. We will almost certainly survive Trump (unless he starts a nuclear war).
It’s not that the US has been so much smarter. It’s just that the US has many built-in advantages such as;
- Safety from being invaded because we have two large oceans on each side and friendly neighbors to the north and south. Most people underestimate how much time and resources other countries spend merely worrying about being attacked.
- The incredible Mississippi River System which makes for cheap transport of goods from the hinterland to the ocean. The US has more navigable rivers than all of Western Europe.
- More quality farmland than anywhere including 200,000 sq miles right in the center of the US, positioned for easy river transport. In other words we can not only feed ourselves but can also export food.
- Massive amounts of natural resources including oil.
- Barrier islands around the Gulf area stretching up the east coast that protect the land from erosion.
SOME OF THE MAN-MADE ADVANTAGES INCLUDE:
- More quality colleges than anyone and it’s not even close. An educational environment that encourages innovation
- A system of private ownership of land AND the sub-soil mineral rights to go with it. This led to the quick development of the fracking industry and energy independence.
- A political system with a separation of church and state. This is being assaulted as we speak. It remains to be seen if it will survive.
- The strongest military in the world.
For years people called these natural advantages “America Exceptionalism”. But most are simply advantages that we inherited when the land was taken. The US is blessed with so much abundance we spend time arguing about issues that aren’t very important. Don’t get me wrong, it could all go away. We are now facing the worst threat in my lifetime, a president who cares not at all about the survival of the country and would sell any part of it off for cash. We will probably survive it but it’s very worrying.
MixtureInevitable180 | a day ago
I agree that our colleges are wonderful, but the quick and vicious destruction of research programs and international study programs (foreigners coming to study here) will take a long time to rebuild. This administration was so stupid that they defunded Terence Tao, basically the modern-day Euler.
Loggerdon | a day ago
Another unforced error by the corrupt Trump Administration.
uwgal | a day ago
Your neighbor to the north no longer like you. Almost 30% of us think you’re our biggest enemy..
Loggerdon | a day ago
I don’t blame you for feeling that way now but after we get rid of Trump you’ll be back. You’re kind of welded to the top of us. Each of your provinces has as its #1 trading partner a US state, not another province. And we’re the #1 trading partner in the world.
Hopefully Trump just dies of a heart attack and the whole movement loses its steam. Thats all I got for you.
AnthraxCat | a day ago
> US are so way ahead in hard and soft power that they still can start and stop a quasi-war within days/hours
This is black tar copium.
The US was so overstretched after its three week special police operation in Iran that it had to abandon Asian allies, and even then failed to protect Middle East allies. NATO is crumbling with the US withdrawing from Germany, having alienated Spain at the same time. The Iranians charging tolls on Hormuz in yuan undermines the USD as the world reserve currency, the single biggest instrument of US soft power. Twenty years ago, the mere idea of trading in anything but USD would get you invaded and regime changed, as Saddam experienced in 2003. Now it is done in open defiance of a US invasion. In terms of soft power, the US is not in decline, it's in free fall. Another interesting indicator is, honestly, Chinamaxxing. America is even losing its cultural hegemony.
That you had to add 'quasi' to war is exactly what people mean by an empire in decline. The British Empire, right up until its collapse and even long after, as Argentina experienced in the Falklands War, was still able to project naval force. It just became increasingly obvious that it was doing so futilely, aimlessly, and that it would not be enough to hold the empire together. Trump's special police operation in Iran is the thing an empire in decline does. Tries to make a big show of force against a much weaker enemy to shore up its self-confidence only to meekly withdraw after a brief, inconclusive engagement.
>This will age extremely poorly.
No, what has aged poorly is every single yellow page of American chauvinism saying that China will 'never catch up.' Only to have articles published marveling at how not only have they caught up they're in a commanding lead not even 5 years later. A great example is helium. The US used to be more or less the sole source for helium in the world, and it made China hesitant to use the REM trump card in trade negotiations because the US had a comparable strategic stranglehold. Identifying this, they set out on a 10 year plan to secure domestic helium production and succeeded, which is what allowed them to use REM export controls in the most recent trade war. The US, meanwhile, has known that the Chinese monopoly on REMs is a core strategic threat for the last 30 years. They've done, and are doing, functionally nothing to remedy it.
sarges_12gauge | a day ago
I think part of the problem is the mindset that it’s even possible to contemplate the US having the ability to completely protect everywhere in the world simultaneously from any damage (obviously yes it was stupid to start a war with Iran).
Like… that’s not a reasonable thing to ever expect and that all powerful mindset is always the first half of the hubris cycle
charlesyo66 | a day ago
America has been a nation in decline for 30 years and the oligarchs are just now starting to let the media talk about it. No shit. All the people who were drunk on the “American Exceptionalism “ Cool-Aid didn’t want to admit it to themselves but it’s been obvious if you were looking.
21plankton | a day ago
I agree with you, but now with Trump2 the rate of fall is higher. We have just proven we cannot subdue the regime in Iran and the consequences of tying up the Straight of Hormuz and Iran messing with the middle east oil empire will scuttle world growth for a time. FAFO is not a good strategy for any country, much less one teetering on the loss of economic dollar (Petrodollar) hegemony.
ultramatt1 | a day ago
Lol, as if people haven’t been saying this since the dot-com burst.
You sound like an NPC, “the oligarchs permit…” gtfooh
charlesyo66 | a day ago
so sorry that my language seemed to deter you from the point.
while I worked in finance in NYC in the '90's, the non-Americans were very clear on seeing the signs of our decline, but somehow the media was busy still rerunning the "Trump has just done XX, are we in a constitutional crisis?" articles from 2017 in 2025, as if we weren't all seeing it. But the gatekeepers of the media were so busy not using the "L" word (as in Lie) to describe Trump's daily demented power-hungry ramblings, and continuing to gaslight a decent % of us into "What, me worry?" stupor.
Curious_Party_4683 | a day ago
All it took was about 500 million for Putin to put US fave con man Dump in charge. Love or hate Putin, there's no denying he's super smart. Ripped US from the inside out and half of the population are actually loving it. They want more of it in 2028.
AlternativeLazy4675 | a day ago
Been hearing this my entire life.
Not sure when it's supposed actually to kick in.
lolploxzomg | a day ago
When you see settlements springing up made up of people living in campervans numbering in the tens of thousands - do you not see an element of decline there? just as a small example?
lNFORMATlVE | a day ago
Well, look at the British Empire for example. They are technically still around, there is still a monarchy and a moderately influential modern economy, but the scale of their influence has massively faded since their peak in the mid to late 1800s. You may not even see the end of America as you know it in your lifetime, but what’s pretty clear is that it is well, well past its prime.
There are also big clues though in how certain events are accelerating the decline: namely, Donald Trump alienating nearly all the allies the US ever had, the ones who have been the willing bulwark of America’s soft power and have bought its products and consumed its media and linked their military to America’s for many, many decades. Donald Trump effectively is treating every single appendage of the American empire as if it’s a direct enemy. That’s a pretty good way to dissolve an empire IMO.
powercow | a day ago
>At home, proponents of wokeness underestimated the costs and difficulties of micromanaging interactions between groups.
what was the cost of the dem base years and years ago, saying racism is still a thing and institutionalized in some of our systems? For the past decade, its just been a right wing term for everything left.
> Overextension was a danger that President Joe Biden contemptuously dismissed. “We’re the United States of America,” he used to say, “and there’s nothing we can’t do.”
and what did i miss that biden did?
jorgepolak | a day ago
If the choice is a wealthy, prosperous multi-racial nation or a white supremacist backwater, 40% of the nation will choose the latter.
Jkevhill | a day ago
Trump is definitely a Russian asset but it really was his mindset long before . He deep down knows that most everyone has always detested him , his dad was the first , so he’d love to burn the whole thing down . Total psycho loser leading a cult of losers and scammers
ShortKey380 | a day ago
Only since the 2000’s 😬
PS did not, will not read NYT nonsense because we’ve been an empire in decline for decades now and it’s almost ridiculous to say at this point like it’s a new thing. Hopefully their argument is better than the title but that would be a first for something in the NYT editorial section 😫
Zenkai_9000 | a day ago
Wumao's need to make up their social credits somehow.
powertodream | a day ago
good
AngrySociety | a day ago
If it can happen to Rome!
forty83 | a day ago
They plateaued after the second world War and the decline began with Vietnam.
awildjabroner | a day ago
aww jeez you think? What gave it away?
frogchris | a day ago
Yea so what. Every empire declines and falls. It's an aspect of life, like the day you die.
America still has a lots of land, sperated by large oceans, lot of diversity. Yea the decline will happen but it's not like us going to become a third world country this century.
China will probably be number 1, but being number 2 isn't that awful. I rather be number 2 than 5. People in the us are still more wealthy than majority of the world. There are still good businesses to invest.
A better future is one where we stop wars and every company can work together. So people don't care about gdp rankings or any dumb metric.
PercussionGuy33 | a day ago
With the ultra-wealthy elite billionares siphoning more and more money away from the remaining 99.99% of America, there won't be much left for the rest of the country to try to live with anymore. The American dream is now turning into the American nightmare for most with legalized robbery happening from those in charge.
frogchris | a day ago
Is wealth inequality getting worse? Yes.
Is there's nothing that can be done? No.
Go read history. Read about Weimar Germany and Japan in post 1920s after the great depression. It was much worse. Billionaires taking all the money? The zaibatsu in Japan was much worse lol. This is not a new phenomenon. It has happened in history many times, people just forget the lesson cause the old men who lived it died. Human psychology doesn't change but the settings do.
What is worrisome is the lack of fiscal responsibilities from 2008 and us unwilling to let inefficient businesses die because they don't want competition. The far left and far right extremism is a direct outcome of that event. And any time the us faces problem they just print more money. It's a lazy solution and doesn't address the real problems of society.
The other issue is liberal democracy. When people vote, they can just print themselves more money. It's a recipe for speculation, boom, bust and disaster.
Crucbu | a day ago
That means they turn all their tiles upside down and continue to collect one gold coin per territory they control each turn, but they can no longer conquer new territories nor redeploy their remaining tiles.
uwgal | a day ago
Love this for them.
coopmika | a day ago
Yep
Which_Duck_7942 | a day ago
We have been in decline for a while now. We are now headed for destruction. We are in a depression.
jjgm21 | a day ago
Well duh
a2coolusernameforme | a day ago
Decline? This is a free fall baby and the people in charge have spent years arguing that we don’t even really need the parachute. It’s wasteful and unnecessary. They’ve been hard at work reducing its size and replacing it with shittier, cheaper versions. Now they’re outright cutting the parachute’s strings as fast as they can while we plummet towards the ground.
kexpi | a day ago
The funny and ironic thing is that the MAGA movement was fully aware of this decline, yet the movement can largely be blamed of advancing the decline.
PercussionGuy33 | a day ago
The MAGA movement now wants the freefall to happen so they can point the finger at who they have been told is to blame for it. Not who actually is to blame for it.
steauengeglase | a day ago
In some ways it's like Gozer in Ghostbuster. It's choose one's own destroyer. He's America's Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
SachenTheGameMaster | a day ago
Nice of them to come out and officially declare it
Realistic-Unit-47 | a day ago
Thanks to Trump and all who voted for him.
heraclitus33 | a day ago
If youre just slightly intelligent, you can feel this in your body. Literally in your body. A future no longer for you. The self. Sand through your fingertips for nearly everybody.
Double_Priority_2702 | a day ago
by every statistic . Accelerated with one person ..and still ..fucking still ..idiot rubes and the like saying "wUut I vOted fErR!"
perfecti0nate | a day ago
“He’s got his, and I’ve got mine, meet the decline.” - NOFX