I'm glad that the flipside is getting some coverage. "Average construction worker makes $200,000 a year no college" is basically a meme at this point. It is propaganda pushed by the industry to attract workers.
The truth is that most construction trades pay a decent wage that will give you a pretty average lifestyle. If you get a few lucky breaks, work hard, network well, and live in the right area for your trade, you can be one of those people who earn in the top fifth percentile of the industry as a blue-collar worker. But guess what? That's the exact same way the white collar world is - network, work hard, get lucky, and hopefully you can make more money.
People don't acknowledge the downsides to construction enough: It can be way more precarious. Certain trades can be idle for weeks if not months. It is impossible to find an employer willing to invest the time into teaching you, and you need to get a new job every 6 mos to a year for the first 5 years if you really want to learn. I am still amazed I possessed the tenacity to learn a trade and stick with it, and I do not think I would have the perseverence to do it again if I had to. If college was never a realistic option (my situation), it's one of the only paths to the middle class left. But if you're giving up on a white-collar career to go out and dig holes in the summer sun, you're a dumbass.
I work in workers compensation insurance and the foremen’s will literally rush to their desk to delete an injured workers payroll record to avoid paying out a claim. We’ll get dudes who fall off roofs and die and the employers will go, “oh they were 1099”, sir no they weren’t and we have the ability to see that.
I worked as a workers' comp paralegal, then a transcriptionist for a workers' comp medical office, for several years.
The people on socials who shove the trades down everyone's throats never talk about the toll physical work takes on workers' bodies. When asked, they pooh-pooh the risk, or they point to extreme outliers: "My husband is 75 and still loads trucks with cement bags all day!"
People like you and I see the reality. I worked on hundreds of cases involving people in their 50s, 40s, and even 30s who got injured and were suddenly unemployable. One case that still sticks in my head, even though it was almost 20 years ago: A guy in his 50s was using a big long wrench to loosen something when the wrench snapped off in his hand. One piece struck his femur and snapped it in half.
The foreman wouldn't let him leave the jobsite. Instead, they made him sit there and "rest" for hours before finally allowing him to go to the hospital. Because of the delay in treatment, he ended up with osteomyelitis and other severe complications. IIRC, he lost the leg. He could never do physical labor again. Problem was, he was in his 50s and had never done anything but hard physical labor. You are not going to take someone who is middle-aged, has never done anything but physical labor, and train them to be a white-collar worker. Because of his medical conditions, he couldn't even work in retail or at a restaurant; he couldn't stand for long periods anymore.
My partner is a roofer and got his contractors license, and it is a ton of work to run your own business. He had to figure out the accounting, taxes, incorporation, bonds, insurance, on and on. He uses an online system to track all of his jobs. All of this costs money as well.
I set up all of his socials and helped him set up his online system, and I actually took the contractors’ exam, as my name is on the business. That test was freaking hard!
He makes a good living for himself and but he doesn’t have employees. He just uses subs.
But the only way he’s able to even be successful is because he had worked for another roofer for years and did not have a no compete. His employer didn’t want to pay for his phone, so he gave all of his customers his personal cell. When he went out on his own the calls just kept rolling in. Without those leads, it would’ve been really hard to start his own business.
So yes, you can do it. But first, you have to learn the trade and get really good at it, and then you have to be able to track all of your jobs and run the business side.
you forgot the part about wrecking your body and retiring with chronic pain / injuries, or not being able to carry on working because of chronic pain / injuries, vs a desk job.
the money is in management positions. and i hate that. the people doing the actual labor get a fraction of what a manager overseeing a dozen labors is making.
My kid became an apprentice electrician specifically to save for college. At this point, he's got almost enough hours to take his journeyman exam (and probably double the money he'll need for school, but he wants a good start on long-term savings), and he's paid almost as much as my college educated husband. So he's sure it was a good decision. But after two years in the trades, he's also never been more sure that he'd hate making them a career. This story echoes some of what he's told me.
I’m approaching 20 years on the white collar side in large-scale union construction, but I also did a couple years of carpentry in my younger days that my knees still remember. Everything written here rings pretty true to me.
An additional point that I think the article missed: Many of the union tradespeople earning that unicorn “well north of $150k” wage are doing it with overtime. They’re not necessarily getting paid a better wage than Average Joe, they’re just working a lot more or working hours that are really rough (where I am, time over 40 hours or 2nd shift work pays 1.5x daytime rate and I think 3rd shift might pay double, but I could be wrong). Regardless of those specifics, it’s largely earned via extra work or another type of sacrifice.
Union pay is also set based on seniority/experience. You earn X your first year as an apprentice, 1.2X the next year, and so on, and the same for journeymen and foremen. Generally speaking, that’s what you’re locked into - there’s no jumping ship someplace else for a raise. You can plot out your whole salary trajectory from now until the next union contract negotiation.
I’m writing this as someone who got a challenging college degree and then at the start of my career, was perplexed and kind of bitter that the guy sweeping the floor and cleaning graffiti in the shitter made so much more money than I did. I thought for years that college and a white collar career had been the wrong choice. They weren’t, but it took some time to realize why.
I still tell my wife (who is a literal rocket scientist) that our kid’s going to be a crane operator. She doesn’t think it’s funny, I still think that seems like the golden ticket in the world of union work..
I’m a first generation HS graduate (and college, and grad school) who in my youth was surrounded by blue collar workers who destroyed their bodies with manual labor. There’s been a romanticization of the trades in the last decade or so that’s been wholly detached from the reality of the work. This article does a great job of puncturing a lot of these myths. Like, look at some of the articles from the NYT about the rise of the trades among young people, and it’s the equivalent of portraying the experience of a junior associate at some white shoe law firm to a bank teller.
I'm an industrial electrician/controls technician. I've been doing this for about 14 years. I made $140k this year so far but it's because I've worked around 600 hours of overtime. It's not a low stress job and I deal with a lot of very unpleasant people who are very stressed out. I've seen two people get arms caught in machines and helped get them out. I have one friend who got blown up by an air compressor exploding. I've had my hands arc flashed. I've been shocked a few times. I've worked high up and underground, in hot conditions and cold.
I do like the work and it has been good for me. But it's not something I think everyone can or should do.
I'm way too uncoordinated to have ever gone into the trades. I'd have ended getting myself killed and, depending on the circumstances, possibly inadvertently taking a few of my coworkers with me.
As you can testify, a catastrophic accident like that is not unheard of on construction sites or even in factories, and it can happen to people with excellent coordination skills too. One millisecond of inattentiveness is all it takes.
I work in tech, and there’s been a real “grass is greener on the other side” attitude towards the trade since people are laid off everyday in this industry in favour of AI automations or AI bootlickers. And it’s a fun and silly thing to joke about how we should have had the foresight to forgo our office jobs but I know most of us do not have the capacity to take on the physical burdens of the trade lol
I work in tech and got "replaced" by AI. I asked my partner who is in a specialized trade which one he thought I could be good and and the answer is basically none. I am afraid of heights and uncoordinated.
Yep, that's me. Completely uncoordinated. I'd end up getting myself killed and, depending on the circumstances, possibly inadvertently taking a few of my coworkers with me.
This sounded like it would be interesting to read, and I honestly thought it was even more interesting than I expected. I love this kind of no-nonsense analysis
44moon | 22 hours ago
I'm glad that the flipside is getting some coverage. "Average construction worker makes $200,000 a year no college" is basically a meme at this point. It is propaganda pushed by the industry to attract workers.
The truth is that most construction trades pay a decent wage that will give you a pretty average lifestyle. If you get a few lucky breaks, work hard, network well, and live in the right area for your trade, you can be one of those people who earn in the top fifth percentile of the industry as a blue-collar worker. But guess what? That's the exact same way the white collar world is - network, work hard, get lucky, and hopefully you can make more money.
People don't acknowledge the downsides to construction enough: It can be way more precarious. Certain trades can be idle for weeks if not months. It is impossible to find an employer willing to invest the time into teaching you, and you need to get a new job every 6 mos to a year for the first 5 years if you really want to learn. I am still amazed I possessed the tenacity to learn a trade and stick with it, and I do not think I would have the perseverence to do it again if I had to. If college was never a realistic option (my situation), it's one of the only paths to the middle class left. But if you're giving up on a white-collar career to go out and dig holes in the summer sun, you're a dumbass.
ladyluck754 | 21 hours ago
I work in workers compensation insurance and the foremen’s will literally rush to their desk to delete an injured workers payroll record to avoid paying out a claim. We’ll get dudes who fall off roofs and die and the employers will go, “oh they were 1099”, sir no they weren’t and we have the ability to see that.
The trades thing definitely has it downsides.
rotervogel1231 | 7 hours ago
I worked as a workers' comp paralegal, then a transcriptionist for a workers' comp medical office, for several years.
The people on socials who shove the trades down everyone's throats never talk about the toll physical work takes on workers' bodies. When asked, they pooh-pooh the risk, or they point to extreme outliers: "My husband is 75 and still loads trucks with cement bags all day!"
People like you and I see the reality. I worked on hundreds of cases involving people in their 50s, 40s, and even 30s who got injured and were suddenly unemployable. One case that still sticks in my head, even though it was almost 20 years ago: A guy in his 50s was using a big long wrench to loosen something when the wrench snapped off in his hand. One piece struck his femur and snapped it in half.
The foreman wouldn't let him leave the jobsite. Instead, they made him sit there and "rest" for hours before finally allowing him to go to the hospital. Because of the delay in treatment, he ended up with osteomyelitis and other severe complications. IIRC, he lost the leg. He could never do physical labor again. Problem was, he was in his 50s and had never done anything but hard physical labor. You are not going to take someone who is middle-aged, has never done anything but physical labor, and train them to be a white-collar worker. Because of his medical conditions, he couldn't even work in retail or at a restaurant; he couldn't stand for long periods anymore.
tsh87 | 21 hours ago
I feel one of the underdiscussed downsides is how hard certain trades can be on your body.
SmallTimeGoals | 20 hours ago
>But if you're giving up on a white-collar career to go out and dig holes in the summer sun, you're a dumbass.
Fuckin A
Powerful-Patient-765 | 19 hours ago
My partner is a roofer and got his contractors license, and it is a ton of work to run your own business. He had to figure out the accounting, taxes, incorporation, bonds, insurance, on and on. He uses an online system to track all of his jobs. All of this costs money as well.
I set up all of his socials and helped him set up his online system, and I actually took the contractors’ exam, as my name is on the business. That test was freaking hard!
He makes a good living for himself and but he doesn’t have employees. He just uses subs.
But the only way he’s able to even be successful is because he had worked for another roofer for years and did not have a no compete. His employer didn’t want to pay for his phone, so he gave all of his customers his personal cell. When he went out on his own the calls just kept rolling in. Without those leads, it would’ve been really hard to start his own business.
So yes, you can do it. But first, you have to learn the trade and get really good at it, and then you have to be able to track all of your jobs and run the business side.
triumphofthecommons | 19 hours ago
you forgot the part about wrecking your body and retiring with chronic pain / injuries, or not being able to carry on working because of chronic pain / injuries, vs a desk job.
the money is in management positions. and i hate that. the people doing the actual labor get a fraction of what a manager overseeing a dozen labors is making.
Gladyskravitz99 | 22 hours ago
My kid became an apprentice electrician specifically to save for college. At this point, he's got almost enough hours to take his journeyman exam (and probably double the money he'll need for school, but he wants a good start on long-term savings), and he's paid almost as much as my college educated husband. So he's sure it was a good decision. But after two years in the trades, he's also never been more sure that he'd hate making them a career. This story echoes some of what he's told me.
granger327 | 18 hours ago
Your kid sounds smart. Congrats.
BroccoliKnob | 17 hours ago
I’m approaching 20 years on the white collar side in large-scale union construction, but I also did a couple years of carpentry in my younger days that my knees still remember. Everything written here rings pretty true to me.
An additional point that I think the article missed: Many of the union tradespeople earning that unicorn “well north of $150k” wage are doing it with overtime. They’re not necessarily getting paid a better wage than Average Joe, they’re just working a lot more or working hours that are really rough (where I am, time over 40 hours or 2nd shift work pays 1.5x daytime rate and I think 3rd shift might pay double, but I could be wrong). Regardless of those specifics, it’s largely earned via extra work or another type of sacrifice.
Union pay is also set based on seniority/experience. You earn X your first year as an apprentice, 1.2X the next year, and so on, and the same for journeymen and foremen. Generally speaking, that’s what you’re locked into - there’s no jumping ship someplace else for a raise. You can plot out your whole salary trajectory from now until the next union contract negotiation.
I’m writing this as someone who got a challenging college degree and then at the start of my career, was perplexed and kind of bitter that the guy sweeping the floor and cleaning graffiti in the shitter made so much more money than I did. I thought for years that college and a white collar career had been the wrong choice. They weren’t, but it took some time to realize why.
I still tell my wife (who is a literal rocket scientist) that our kid’s going to be a crane operator. She doesn’t think it’s funny, I still think that seems like the golden ticket in the world of union work..
brownedbits | 19 hours ago
I’m a first generation HS graduate (and college, and grad school) who in my youth was surrounded by blue collar workers who destroyed their bodies with manual labor. There’s been a romanticization of the trades in the last decade or so that’s been wholly detached from the reality of the work. This article does a great job of puncturing a lot of these myths. Like, look at some of the articles from the NYT about the rise of the trades among young people, and it’s the equivalent of portraying the experience of a junior associate at some white shoe law firm to a bank teller.
bazilbt | 18 hours ago
I'm an industrial electrician/controls technician. I've been doing this for about 14 years. I made $140k this year so far but it's because I've worked around 600 hours of overtime. It's not a low stress job and I deal with a lot of very unpleasant people who are very stressed out. I've seen two people get arms caught in machines and helped get them out. I have one friend who got blown up by an air compressor exploding. I've had my hands arc flashed. I've been shocked a few times. I've worked high up and underground, in hot conditions and cold.
I do like the work and it has been good for me. But it's not something I think everyone can or should do.
rotervogel1231 | 7 hours ago
I'm way too uncoordinated to have ever gone into the trades. I'd have ended getting myself killed and, depending on the circumstances, possibly inadvertently taking a few of my coworkers with me.
As you can testify, a catastrophic accident like that is not unheard of on construction sites or even in factories, and it can happen to people with excellent coordination skills too. One millisecond of inattentiveness is all it takes.
WannieWirny | 17 hours ago
I work in tech, and there’s been a real “grass is greener on the other side” attitude towards the trade since people are laid off everyday in this industry in favour of AI automations or AI bootlickers. And it’s a fun and silly thing to joke about how we should have had the foresight to forgo our office jobs but I know most of us do not have the capacity to take on the physical burdens of the trade lol
sailcrew | 10 hours ago
I work in tech and got "replaced" by AI. I asked my partner who is in a specialized trade which one he thought I could be good and and the answer is basically none. I am afraid of heights and uncoordinated.
rotervogel1231 | 7 hours ago
Yep, that's me. Completely uncoordinated. I'd end up getting myself killed and, depending on the circumstances, possibly inadvertently taking a few of my coworkers with me.
etherealsmog | 20 hours ago
This sounded like it would be interesting to read, and I honestly thought it was even more interesting than I expected. I love this kind of no-nonsense analysis
Fit-Presentation44 | 20 hours ago
I already know I could never