I would love to have a survey on how many people run docker without sudo. I would bet it's a lot. In fact, it has become such a trope that most AI models these days know that it's a way to get sudo if you fail to give it sudo permissions.
docker: command not found looks like my computer is safe lol.
But tbh, I'm pretty meh on escalation to root for my computer. Everything I actually care about is my user-level account. If that gets pwned, even if purely read-only I'm a lot more trouble than some process being able to write to the generic files that came with the operating system.
It's interesting how a lot of Linux users make their users effectively root
because they want to use docker without sudo. At laest the Arch
Wiki warns about it:
If you want to be able to run the docker CLI command as a non-root user,
add your user to the docker user group, re-login and restart
docker.service.
Warning: Anyone added to the docker group is root equivalent because they
can use the docker run --privileged command to start containers with root
privileges.
User Namespace remap is good here, making a root UID inside a container equal to a non-root UID outside the container. So should prevent most container root escapes.
Sometimes a few of the users try to hold total power over all the rest. For example, in 1984, a few users at the MIT AI lab decided to seize power by changing the operator password on the Twenex system and keeping it secret from everyone else. (I was able to thwart this coup and give power back to the users by patching the kernel, but I wouldn't know how to do that in Unix.)
However, occasionally the rulers do tell someone. Under the usual su mechanism, once someone learns the root password who sympathizes with the ordinary users, he or she can tell the rest. The "wheel group" feature would make this impossible, and thus cement the power of the rulers.
I'm on the side of the masses, not that of the rulers. If you are used to supporting the bosses and sysadmins in whatever they do, you might find this idea strange at first.
And to be fair, I thought DHH stood for David Heil Hitler. Didn't pay much attention but saw that whole white person race and purity of culture stuff. Like, uhh, no?
The timeline of commits from the introduction to resolution of this issue:
Would be nice to know when the bug was responsibly reported, too.
Although I kind of agree that people that ship these kind of tradeoffs (other might be granting passwordless sudo by default for user created on install) - have no business marketing their distribution as something suitable for general use.
mitsuhiko | 8 hours ago
I would love to have a survey on how many people run docker without sudo. I would bet it's a lot. In fact, it has become such a trope that most AI models these days know that it's a way to get sudo if you fail to give it sudo permissions.
mqudsi | 2 hours ago
Don’t use Docker. Use Podman in rootless mode. Don’t trust containers to be a security boundary, though.
adam_d_ruppe | 5 hours ago
docker: command not foundlooks like my computer is safe lol.But tbh, I'm pretty meh on escalation to root for my computer. Everything I actually care about is my user-level account. If that gets pwned, even if purely read-only I'm a lot more trouble than some process being able to write to the generic files that came with the operating system.
seb | 3 hours ago
relevant xkcd
sebastiancarlos | 8 hours ago
It's interesting how a lot of Linux users make their users effectively root because they want to use docker without
sudo. At laest the Arch Wiki warns about it:ghthor | 5 hours ago
User Namespace remap is good here, making a root UID inside a container equal to a non-root UID outside the container. So should prevent most container root escapes.
hyperpape | 6 hours ago
Obvious in hindsight, but the discussions about this bug have me feeling like sudo is also a pretty weak form of protection: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49500588.
I don’t think this means omarchy’s choice is harmless—the two weak forms of security have different characteristics.
zk | 2 hours ago
I'm not a docker guy, so maybe i don't understand how people usually use docker. When I do use docker, I use it in rootless mode.
My question is why isn't rootless mode used more often? Wouldn't that stop a bunch of privesc stuff from happening?
zelda | 2 hours ago
Can it get any worse at this point?
Halkcyon | 9 hours ago
Oh good, I always thought it was pesky to need a sysadmin to do what I want on my host!
ubernostrum | 4 hours ago
You can decide for yourself whether it is ironic or not that this has ended up aligning with Stallman's vision of how the system should work:
jwconway | 4 hours ago
NOmarchy.
And to be fair, I thought DHH stood for David Heil Hitler. Didn't pay much attention but saw that whole white person race and purity of culture stuff. Like, uhh, no?
sshaw | 6 hours ago
Sorta like the virtualization version of rebooting the machine into single-user mode
e12e | 4 hours ago
Would be nice to know when the bug was responsibly reported, too.
Although I kind of agree that people that ship these kind of tradeoffs (other might be granting passwordless sudo by default for user created on install) - have no business marketing their distribution as something suitable for general use.