This is a really good step, and I'm happy that Xfce diehards won't be stuck on X11 forever! This website might need some @media queries, though, the reading column is very narrow on mobile (Firefox Android).
I am not stuck on X11. I am perfectly happy with X11. X11 is fine and does all I need, and it does more than Wayland does.
I am also 58 years old and I have been myopic for over half a century; I have worn glasses since the age of 7. Now, they are about -6 dioptres, but with them, I have better than 20:20 vision.
I can't see the difference between standard definition and HiDPI. I cannot see refresh rates over about 50Hz. I cannot see flicker-free or tear-free video because I can't see the flicker or the tearing. I can't see the difference between an HDR display and an ordinary one. I can't see the difference between 300dpi laser print and 600dpi. I owned an iPhone 3GS and an iPhone 4, and I couldn't tell a "retina display" from the older one unless I held it within 2-3cm of my eye.
(Being myopic confers an advantage which is almost never discussed: I have extremely good close-up vision, like a typical person using a hand-lens. This is probably why it evolved and persisted: there are always trade-offs.)
I have excellent colour vision for a male, though, and I can see the horrible posterisation that afflicts most LCD TVs. That's why I stuck with CRTs as long as possible. From a distance, they have better colour blends and gradients. It mystifies me that most people with ostensibly better eyesight are not bothered by this. They praise the crispness of a 4K or 5K screen but they just ignore the huge bands and stripes across the sky!
I am unable to percieve 99% of the supposed advantages of Wayland. They are literally invisible to me. But I can detect that labwc doesn't implement the standard window-resizing keystrokes that I use every day. As an example of something I do many times an hour, I maximise windows with Alt+Space then X, as I have been doing since I learned Windows 2.01, 38 years ago. It doesn't work on GNOME, or KDE 6.x, or Xfce under Wayland via Labwc. Minimise is alt-space, N.
But the people who designed Wayland didn't think of keyboard UI. I think they don't know how to drive a GUI with only the keyboard. I don't think they know how to use a mouse effectively, either: they don't support the middle mouse button any more. My blind friends tell me that Wayland-based environments' accessibility with screen readers is pretty bad, too.
UI matters more than shiny like HDR, VRR, etc. UI should come first, features second.
So, no, I am not stuck on X11. I chose X11 and I will stay with X11 as long as I can, and I will not be forced onto Wayland until I have no alternative.
XFCE's window manager was one of my first open source contributions. I was responsible for making windows maximize when they snapped to the top of the screen, and jump back to their previous size when you dragged them away. I also rewrote the alt-tab dialog.
novedevo | a day ago
This is a really good step, and I'm happy that Xfce diehards won't be stuck on X11 forever! This website might need some @media queries, though, the reading column is very narrow on mobile (Firefox Android).
lproven | 13 hours ago
I am an Xfce diehard.
I am not stuck on X11. I am perfectly happy with X11. X11 is fine and does all I need, and it does more than Wayland does.
I am also 58 years old and I have been myopic for over half a century; I have worn glasses since the age of 7. Now, they are about -6 dioptres, but with them, I have better than 20:20 vision.
I can't see the difference between standard definition and HiDPI. I cannot see refresh rates over about 50Hz. I cannot see flicker-free or tear-free video because I can't see the flicker or the tearing. I can't see the difference between an HDR display and an ordinary one. I can't see the difference between 300dpi laser print and 600dpi. I owned an iPhone 3GS and an iPhone 4, and I couldn't tell a "retina display" from the older one unless I held it within 2-3cm of my eye.
(Being myopic confers an advantage which is almost never discussed: I have extremely good close-up vision, like a typical person using a hand-lens. This is probably why it evolved and persisted: there are always trade-offs.)
I have excellent colour vision for a male, though, and I can see the horrible posterisation that afflicts most LCD TVs. That's why I stuck with CRTs as long as possible. From a distance, they have better colour blends and gradients. It mystifies me that most people with ostensibly better eyesight are not bothered by this. They praise the crispness of a 4K or 5K screen but they just ignore the huge bands and stripes across the sky!
I am unable to percieve 99% of the supposed advantages of Wayland. They are literally invisible to me. But I can detect that labwc doesn't implement the standard window-resizing keystrokes that I use every day. As an example of something I do many times an hour, I maximise windows with Alt+Space then X, as I have been doing since I learned Windows 2.01, 38 years ago. It doesn't work on GNOME, or KDE 6.x, or Xfce under Wayland via Labwc. Minimise is alt-space, N.
But the people who designed Wayland didn't think of keyboard UI. I think they don't know how to drive a GUI with only the keyboard. I don't think they know how to use a mouse effectively, either: they don't support the middle mouse button any more. My blind friends tell me that Wayland-based environments' accessibility with screen readers is pretty bad, too.
UI matters more than shiny like HDR, VRR, etc. UI should come first, features second.
So, no, I am not stuck on X11. I chose X11 and I will stay with X11 as long as I can, and I will not be forced onto Wayland until I have no alternative.
And it is not just me. See this post on LWN, too.
We're not stuck on it.
We prefer it.
hawski | a day ago
Previously: https://lobste.rs/s/xcwljr/xfwl4_roadmap_for_xfce_wayland
Nice to see the good progress. The choice of Smithay (and Rust) seems daring for such a conservative project, but it is welcome from my perspective.
orib | 20 hours ago
XFCE's window manager was one of my first open source contributions. I was responsible for making windows maximize when they snapped to the top of the screen, and jump back to their previous size when you dragged them away. I also rewrote the alt-tab dialog.
It's been a long time. 2006.