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1582 points by propublica_ 19 days ago on reddit | 183 comments

[OP] propublica_ | 19 days ago

Newborns who are unable to receive a vitamin K shot are 81 times more likely to develop severe, often uncontrollable bleeding. Babies have been found with dead brain tissue similar to what follows cancer; the kind of bleeding seen after a stroke.

Yet, driven by misinformation, more and more parents are refusing this lifesaving injection for their children, doctors say. Although it is not a vaccine, the vitamin K shot has become collateral damage of the anti-vaccine movement.

The CDC doesn’t track how many parents reject vitamin K shots. But a recent study of more than 5 million births found that in 2024, over 5% of babies in the U.S. did not receive the injection — up 77% from 2017.

Experts also estimate the death toll from babies not receiving vitamin K shots may be greater than reported. More than 700 newborns died from spontaneous bleeding in their brains in 2024, known to be a common result of vitamin K deficiency.

We contacted 55 hospitals and birthing centers and talked to more than 30 doctors. At Idaho’s largest hospital system, hospital officials shared that refusal rates rose from 3.8% in 2020 to 9.8% in 2025. At one hospital, the rate even reached 20%.

“We’re a victim of our own success,” a director of neonatology at New York’s Kings County Hospital Center told us. “Since we’ve been treating babies with vitamin K, we haven’t seen much deficiency bleeding, so people think it doesn’t exist.”

Read our full investigation: https://www.propublica.org/article/more-parents-decline-vitamin-k-shot-newborns

Browncoat_Loyalist | 19 days ago

Natural selection.

sweetica | 19 days ago

Anti vaxxers are reading some book about why vaccines are bad. I saw it from one of my contacts in my child's pre School about a decade ago, it was sitting in her stroller. It wasn't from a real publishing company but it was a popular book because she wasn't the only mom toting it around. She handed it to me and I started to peruse the first chapter and the author spends a lot of time demonizing the vitamin k shot and Hep B shot in the first chapter because those are the first shots children are getting.

My child had a very traumatizing birth in which she received a head injury from the lovely obstetrician who was trying to save both our lives, so I was quite glad to have the vitamin k shot because I was really worried about her having brain bleeds. I feel really bad for the infants of these people. My child has had a fun, creative, and interesting life so far and I cannot imagine her not getting that opportunity because she croaked after a brain bleed due to her traumatizing birth.

VicisZan | 19 days ago

The “author” of this book should be in jail.

This is no different than murder

sfcnmone | 19 days ago

86 something something?

VicisZan | 19 days ago

I don’t actually get this reference, sorry :(

Been online a lot less the last few weeks because baby is starting to become mobile lol

carlitospig | 19 days ago

I would prefer to call it negligent homicide.

cityshepherd | 19 days ago

Negligent infanticide

tsardonicpseudonomi | 19 days ago

Children are slaves to their parents. How do you kill a shovel? It's disgusting.

OnlyACsNoFans | 19 days ago

Man... you're evil

lonewanderer21 | 19 days ago

How is it evil to point out a fact? The guy you're responding to isn't the one who told them not to get the injection.

Nheea | 19 days ago

Neh, those parents are evil. Do you know how fucked is to see a baby dying form something completely preventable?

Sorry, meant to reply to the other user.

OnlyACsNoFans | 19 days ago

These people are psychotic

Nheea | 19 days ago

Antivaxxers? Antisciencers? Yes, they are.

OnlyACsNoFans | 18 days ago

Yes. But so are the people cheering dead babies as evolution

Inter-Being01 | 19 days ago

I totally support this.

Hyperion1144 | 19 days ago

You support the death of innocent babies unlucky enough to be born to stupid parents?

Browncoat_Loyalist | 19 days ago

Yes, because when the idiots make more idiots, humanity suffers.

FurRealDeal | 19 days ago

Basically the plot of "Idiocracy"

NumberKillinger | 19 days ago

I think when we lose sight of empathy, humanity suffers. Reconsider your view.

Door-Leather | 19 days ago

Sounds callous but it is true we overengineered safeties into our society and the absence of selective pressures is resulting in some clear negative behaviors. Recognition isn’t about supporting the deaths of the innocent.

Wave_of_Anal_Fury | 19 days ago

As a lifelong fan of post-apocalyptic literature (and the occasional writer of the same), it's one of the reasons why so many stories show societies collapsing quickly. Remove the safeguards that protect people from themselves and a whole helluva lot of people find ways to bring about their own demise.

It's been a while since I read it, but I seem to recall that Stephen King's The Stand dedicated an entire chapter to characters who were immune to Captain Trips but ended up doing all kinds of stupid shit that resulted in their own deaths.

Hyperion1144 | 19 days ago

It's interesting that your solution is "babies must die" and not other, less insane options like "we should improve education."

Door-Leather | 19 days ago

I'm not the one making the decisions. I wouldn't be making the same decisions these anti-med science people are making. If it were up to me none of that would happen. If you want to improve conditions, you should turn your eye in the other direction.

Door-Leather | 19 days ago

Also, this isn't "my solution." That's "your strawman." Typical "let's punish the people being bullied when they fight back but never stop the bully" behavior. You're talking to me and not talking to the people making bad decisions probably because you understand they can't be helped through being spoken to.

Hyperion1144 | 18 days ago

You were free to type all those words before now. That keyboard doesn't charge by the character.

Now take responsibility for what you wrote, instead of expecting me to take responsibility to understand what you think you meant.

Door-Leather | 18 days ago

Do you think I'm Inter-Being01? wtf did I write? That engineered safeties gave people license to make bad decisions? That's just neutrally factual.

yoweigh | 19 days ago

Why?

The-Kurt-Russell | 19 days ago

Except that it’s not, the babies aren’t choosing this

Mbyrd420 | 19 days ago

What do you think natural selection means?

I'm not condoning anti-vax, but this is a perfect example of natural selection.

feralgraft | 19 days ago

No, their parents are choosing this. Then their babies are dying, thus providing selection pressure in favor of parents who arent idiots and have children that survive to reproductive age

It's really sad. While it's self-pleasuring in a schadenfreude kind of way to point at others who are making poorer decisions on these kinds of things, I don't look at it only that way. Yes it's absolutely on people to be better educated on these things. However, our education kind of sucks. We aren't teaching critical thinking like we used to. People are on their phones all the time, being fed info, as opposed to having to think and process and actually use their brains. This story is one of many necessary results of that degradation of education and thinking. We can expect more of them going forward.

It's also somewhat an indictment of our institutions who need to be better than they've been. There isn't no reason that people trust institutions now less than they did 20 years ago. Science and health (yes I know how massively broad both of those are) need to always be seen to be above board, factual, not given to panic or exaggeration or ideology or clearly-driven-by-profit-first, etc.

tsardonicpseudonomi | 19 days ago

> There isn't no reason that people trust institutions now less than they did 20 years ago.

Except capitalist propaganda which is the root cause of all the symptoms you outline. Those institutions have been shown to bend and break to the flimsiest of moneyed interest.

forest-fox | 19 days ago

My cousin died from this before it was known that Vitamin K should be given to all newborns.

sfcnmone | 19 days ago

I'm old enough that my mother's first baby died of hemorrhagic disease of the newborn, when he was 9 days old. The pediatricians told her that they knew how to prevent it but didn't have access to the shot yet.

This in general is the problem with much of modern preventive care. We've been so successful with preventative medicine that nobody ever sees the problems. I know someone who had polio as a child, for example, and she has severe structural deformity of her left arm. It's a horrible childhood illness, and people have forgotten.

emilysavaje1 | 19 days ago

Survivorship bias is going to kill us all

sfcnmone | 19 days ago

Yep

chromaiden | 19 days ago

These shots should be mandatory for every newborn, no parental consent needed.

BotGirlFall | 19 days ago

The only problem with that is it will encourage these loonies to just give birth at home with no medical intervention and even more babies will die

DubiousBeak | 19 days ago

Some will but there are a lot more people willing to decline an optional shot in a hospital than there are people willing to go through a whole ass home birth with no medical intervention. If the shot is mandatory the vast majority of babies will end up getting it.

grantgarden | 19 days ago

And it will be weirdly bizarre how the idiots will fold on their "values" when it's hard to uphold them.

Like all the dumbasses crying for the covid shot as they die in the hospital. Too little too late.

BadahBingBadahBoom | 19 days ago

I always wondered why don't health insurance companies just make this a condition of cover. Just like car insurers won't pay out if you drive recklessly as that is not something your policy would cover.

A lot of people get very sensitive and stubborn on topics like this but I find generally if it comes down to money they always give in. Money talks and at the end of the day bills need to be paid.

Door-Leather | 19 days ago

This seems like the perfect solution to integrate with our currently entrenched system. Some people just can't handle important choices properly and need the right behavior to be heavily incentivized.

tsardonicpseudonomi | 19 days ago

> and even more babies will die

It'll also ensure anti-vax mothers die. That, at least, is a positive. The way these people learn is to have tragedy strike them.

smjurach | 19 days ago

Absolutely not. Forced medical procedures is a slippery slope and against bodily autonomy. I think the correct approach is charging parents for negligent homicide or manslaughter if they refuse and child dies. If their beliefs are so strong they will not get it. But if there’s the slightest thought something could go wrong theirs more incentive to do it.

Main_Cauliflower5479 | 19 days ago

Why? Why are they "medically necessary?" I call BS on this. Mammals birth babies all the time. Humans birth them all the time and how are these only required in only predominately English speaking countries? Explain that, please.

TheOtherWhiteMeat | 19 days ago

> Why are they "medically necessary?"

How about reading the article?

>Babies who don’t get the vitamin K shot, research shows, are 81 times more likely than those who do to develop late vitamin K deficiency bleeding, where in many cases oxygen can’t reach their brains and blood pools around their skulls. Perhaps most alarming is that, according to the CDC, 1 in every 5 babies with vitamin K deficiency bleeding will die.

You okay with that?

Vast_Engineering_626 | 19 days ago

Babies die all the time, too

cherrysnap | 19 days ago

do you want the life of your child to be a coin toss like it is for all the other mammals who birth babies all the time without medical intervention?

AleksandraLisowska | 19 days ago

It is recommended at birth because:

  1. Newborns get very little vitamin K through the placenta.

2.Their gut is not developed enough yet to produce enough of it.

  1. Breast milk contains low amounts of vitamin K.

  2. Bleeding can happen before the baby gets enough vitamin K from feeding.

  3. It's not even a vaccine, it's just a vitamin that it's so cheap it really is a crime you don't accept it for your kid and it should raise concerns over its good development.

If you have any other questions, remember to read from indexed real research, as science is not an opinion.

SuperVancouverBC | 19 days ago

"How are these only required in only predominantly English speaking countries"

What do you mean? Why do you think it's something only people in English speaking countries do? Vitamin K injections are recommended worldwide. It's the gold standard

Medically necessary in the sense that babies livers are unable to produce their own vitamin K because of the lack of neccessary gut bacteria until they're approximately 6 months of age when they start eating solid food. Breast milk is a poor source of it.

Yeah mammals give birth all the time. They also die all the time. Vitamin K injections are a preventive measure so babies don't die.

Main_Cauliflower5479 | 19 days ago

I looked it up and only English speaking countries were noted as requiring Vit K injections at birth.

SuperVancouverBC | 19 days ago

That's not even close to being true.

Main_Cauliflower5479 | 19 days ago

I'm not the one who wrote the paper. So...

But it IS true that that's what I did read.

ADarwinAward | 18 days ago

This is a science sub not a homeopathy sub. Cite your sources bud

DocumentExternal6240 | 19 days ago

not true. In Europe it is also standard. We speak mostly other languages.

Only here they don’t get a shot but vitamin K liquid drops when they are born and also the next three standard checks.

ADarwinAward | 18 days ago

Do you think the survival rate of infant non-human mammals is high? They have dead babies all the time. Watch a nature documentary.

ADarwinAward | 19 days ago

This is child neglect and should be criminal.

I’m sure people will say I’m calloused, but ignorance is no excuse to kill your baby. Those babies have a right to live and CPS should be involved in cases like this. CPS should have medical custody in cases where parents are too foolish to keep their baby alive.

After_Preference_885 | 19 days ago

Funny enough it's the "right to life" party that keeps killing babies with their policies and propaganda

mimaikin-san | 19 days ago

those restrictions are meant to control women

it was never about the child

cityshepherd | 19 days ago

The ignorant fools who keep voting those ghouls into power don’t understand that, and continue to vote for monsters who see women as property…

because they’re too intentionally stupid to understand the fact that politicians who want everyone to have healthcare actually care more about the children than the politicians who throw women who miscarry into prison.

tsardonicpseudonomi | 19 days ago

> The ignorant fools who keep voting those ghouls into power don’t understand that, and continue to vote for monsters who see women as property…

No. Stop. These aren't "ignorant fools" these are people who also view women as property and children as free labor and sex toys. This IS who they are. Do not let them lie to you about being "ignorant". They know they can't voice their real desires or thoughts in "polite" settings.

oxycotin | 19 days ago

Demonize them at your own risk, painting in black and white is exactly what you accuse them of doing

tsardonicpseudonomi | 18 days ago

>painting in black and white is exactly what you accuse them of doing

I'm accusing them of being enthusiastic supporters of rape and death.

Their defenders pointing to hypocrisy, as you have, are irrelevant to me. I simply don't support child rape or mass death. They do. They're beneath me in every way and I will not pretend to view them as equals. So you can get the fuck out of here with your enlightened centrist bullshit, thanks.

> Demonize them at your own risk,

You mean demonize you.

NDaveT | 19 days ago

Many of them do understand that and that's why they vote for them. They want to control women.

Kaurifish | 19 days ago

It’s also to produce more unwanted kids.

The Epstein files show us why.

KillerInfection | 19 days ago

As long as the fetus gets born, that's the only thing they care about. Once born, you're on your own.

alykaytrine | 19 days ago

To be fair, I’ve also had far far left hippie crunchy granola types refuse Vit K shots as “unnatural”.  It really does go to prove the”Political Horseshoe theory”.

WrongEinstein | 19 days ago

It's not ignorance. They have access to the same information as everyone else. They choose which excuses they use for their behavior.

mekanasto | 19 days ago

Exactly! This is horrid.

lgfuado | 19 days ago

These babies that would otherwise grow up perfectly healthy are being severely damaged or killed at birth for literally no reason other than their parents arrogance. They have no business raising children.

Izawwlgood | 19 days ago

You're not wrong, but a point to consider is how child protective services is weaponized against minorities and poor people.

That said, again, you are not wrong. Willful neglect is abuse, and should be treated as such.

tsardonicpseudonomi | 19 days ago

> but a point to consider is how child protective services is weaponized against minorities and poor people.

Like every other aspect of a capitalist society. Should we not have firefighters?

Izawwlgood | 19 days ago

Incredible strawman.

tsardonicpseudonomi | 19 days ago

If you say so.

ADarwinAward | 18 days ago

Well in that case, let the babies die then /s

Izawwlgood | 18 days ago

As I said to the other wild strawman, yep, that's a strawman.

scaleofjudgment | 19 days ago

Magats have never been objecting to post term abortions.

hpygilmr | 19 days ago

Dumbest comment ever

Uncynical_Diogenes | 19 days ago

Pretty sure self-identifying as a MAGAt is dumber.

FanBehaviour2011 | 19 days ago

Hit dog hollering

curious_but_dumb | 19 days ago

Hey guys, I found the redneck with dementia!

transitfreedom | 19 days ago

CPS just charge the parents with negligence

MarsNeedsRabbits | 19 days ago

For once, something that vitamins can prevent, and they don't want it. They love treating with vitamins, but not this time.

yourlittlebirdie | 19 days ago

This is what gets me. These people LOVE vitamins for everything, but this one for some reason, they reject?? Why??

bibliophile222 | 19 days ago

It's because it comes in a shot, and they're stupid enough to think that shot = vaccine.

GeneralTonic | 19 days ago

"They could put anything in that syringe and you'd never know!"

[chews up tablet of 'full spectrum essential oils and minerals' marketed as Bible-based which they found on Facebook]

TheOtherWhiteMeat | 19 days ago

"Made with real Bible!"

thenymphintheforest | 19 days ago

Alot of vaccines used to be given orally, I think we should start making oral versions of those vaccines again and market them as a "holistic wellness remedy"

I bet it would work and they would vaccinate their kids then lol

Razor_Grrl | 19 days ago

That’s just so idiotic it would work.

MistyMtn421 | 19 days ago

But isn't this also the same group injecting off market peptides? Nothing makes any sense

bibliophile222 | 19 days ago

If a doctor gives you a shot, it's dangerous. If you do it yourself, it's fine.

SunflaresAteMyLunch | 19 days ago

Compassion for the conned, despisement and scorn for the conmen. But still, people thinking they can google themselves to an MD is so unbelievably arrogant.

Katyafan | 19 days ago

Compassion for the victims, none for the conned who kill their babies.

Door-Leather | 19 days ago

The cult of the antichrist draws power from the people, not their leader… compassion sounds all well and good, but in practical terms a soft touch is slower to correct these people and harms more children who have no say

CarlJH | 19 days ago

Here's my personal anecdote about the Vitamin K shot - my kid's mother and I heard about it the for the very first time right after my kid was born. The nurse just showed up ready to stick a needle in our new baby.

At the risk of sounding sexist, a woman who's just gone through labor is not in her most rational frame of mind. So my kid's mom was immediately uncomfortable with the idea of jabbing a needle in our perfect little child and asked "what the hell is that?" The nurse's reaction was not at all comforting. I suspect that having to deal with "skeptical" moms had robbed her of her patience and good will. Or maybe she was always a bit of a bitch, either way, I could see that this was going to devolve into a test of wills if I didn't jump in.

Fortunately my kid's mom trusted me enough that when I said we should trust the nurse she agreed to it. If I hadn't been there, she would have said no.

The way to avoid that would have been for her OB/GYN to have explained at one of her final trimester appointments that newborns are at risk of hemorrhage and that the best protection would be a Vitamin K injection as soon as possible after birth.

I feel like a "Here's a scary possibility, but here's a safe preventative measure" framing BEFORE a woman goes into labor would dramatically increase acceptance of the shot. At least it would have made my kid's mother a lot less likely to question and possibly refuse the shot.

selune07 | 19 days ago

Thank you for providing the insight that the rest of these comments are lacking. This is not an issue of ignorant parents, but of hospitals not practicing proper informed consent. Especially with the anti-vaxx movement, it should be absolutely required for this to be brought up at a pre-natal visit rather than just after birth.

DocumentExternal6240 | 19 days ago

Knowledge is always useful. There are also Vitamin K oral drops which would help to ease the mind of some.

Mou_aresei | 19 days ago

So what happens if a baby dies as a result of a vitamin K deficiency? Are the parents who refused the vitamin K shot prosecuted?

dshgr | 19 days ago

No. Our country is run by people that oppose abortion, but don't care about any child once it is born.

Impossible-Falcon-62 | 19 days ago

“ if you’re pre-born you’re fine if you’re preschool, you’re fucked” - George Carlin
They’re pro birth, not Pro Quality Of Life

tsardonicpseudonomi | 19 days ago

> They’re pro birth, not Pro Quality Of Life

They don't even care about birth. They're just trying to kill minorities and keep white women in check.

transitfreedom | 19 days ago

Sadly this country hates kids

camoure | 19 days ago

>The success of the shot has been so remarkable that it nearly eliminated vitamin K deficiency bleeding altogether. The science was settled decades ago. “This was not something we even bothered to spend much educational effort on,” said Dr. Allison Henry, the director of newborn medicine service at Cedars-Sinai Guerin Children’s in Los Angeles, “because there was this simple, safe intervention.”

Ah, yeah, lack of education strikes once again

tsardonicpseudonomi | 19 days ago

Education hurts quarterly profits.

hap071 | 19 days ago

I said yes to everything they offered when my baby was born. I didnt go to school for years and years to be a dr, they did, so Im not going to question if they say she needs a shot to keep her from bleeding out, or eye drops in her eyes to make sure the bacteria in the vaginal canal doesnt harm her eyes. Theyre not doing it to deform or harm your child.

monkeyentropy | 19 days ago

But they did their Internet “research” /s

I’m a medical laboratory scientist and it infuriates me when people compare their Internet “knowledge” to years of scientific study and experience.

I wish all patients were more like you.

Objective_Radio3504 | 19 days ago

What is the argument against vitamin k??

I accidentally overdosed on blood thinners (accidentally did a double dose, combined with my dose being too high in general) and I was very very sick. I was on a vitamin k drip for like 8 hours. It was literally life saving. I could not imagine being those poor babies bleeding to death without it. :(

GeneralTonic | 19 days ago

There's no argument with this one, just a "No, thanks." And the nurses shrug and move on.

Objective_Radio3504 | 19 days ago

That’s just so stupid.

Redditreallysucks99 | 19 days ago

The argument is many European countries with higher HDI than the US administer vitamin K in smaller doses over multiple days as drops, and the fact that different countries have different policies means the benefits are not likely not nearly as clear cut as American doctors are suggesting.

RodediahK | 19 days ago

Applying socialized medicine practices to a private health system is inappropriate. Europeans are going to have mandated parental leave and universal healthcare. They have the time and financial freedom to spread out care. US hospitals give vitamin k in one dose because hospitals have no way of knowing if they're going to see the child tomorrow or in 6 months.

Objective_Radio3504 | 19 days ago

I’m in Canada and the first method is the shot. Backup is the drops. So even countries with socialized medicine use the shots.

Redditreallysucks99 | 18 days ago

Surely if "one size fits all" should not be applied across the bord worldwide as you are saying, then it's wrong to apply it within one country? Lots of Americans have great private healthcare, for them the same advice should apply as for Europeans!

RodediahK | 18 days ago

No. How do you think insurance works? the hospital has no idea what your policy specifics are. frankly they shouldn't consider how good your insurance your insurance is when considering how to offer care.

would you want the doctor to go "they only have a United health care state exchange plan let do a c section instead of a traditional birth to save time and money" or the hospital to go "oh sorry you have the blue cross Starbucks non union plan. we do the Aetna taco bell corporate procedure" that would just creates confusion for the patient and the Dr's on what then need to do or will be covered.

there are a uncountable numbers of health insurance variations suggesting making plans to cater to different tier is a fools errand for something as common as child birth.

The euro standards assumes universal health care for everyone the baby is interacting with has some minimum level of care. good health insurance has to contend with the fact the baby might have to interact with someone that has united health care ... need I say more?

That's why in Denmark they can go "we don't need to give the hep B vaccine at birth because we screen for it in our population" or "wait grandmas got hep B no you can get the vaccine" in the states you have no way of know if the parents with the good insurances have relatives ~~aren't~~ on some terrible plan or baby Jene at day care mom has no insurance.

raptorjaws | 19 days ago

no the benefits are clear cut, europeans just have better access to follow up care than americans since they have universal healthcare so they have the luxury of spreading the dose out

sirchtheseeker | 19 days ago

Because half of the parents are on the wrong side of the bell curve.

cocolanoire | 19 days ago

Hear me out…isn’t this a macabre way of thinning the herd and ensuring we don’t end up living Idiocracy IRL?! The poor kids don’t end up being raised by these eejits so they’re saved a lifetime of misery

tsardonicpseudonomi | 19 days ago

> isn’t this a macabre way of thinning the herd and ensuring we don’t end up living Idiocracy IRL?!

The people pushing this are the ones driving us toward "Idiocracy". The unfortunate reality is that idiots are born several times a second. Humans are a renewable resource.

Empty-Gazelle-3983 | 19 days ago

Omg I say this too 🤣

Illustrious_Tip_4325 | 19 days ago

Is a good time to get into the small decorated coffins business.

That_Bed_4673 | 19 days ago

I thought they liked vitamins? All because it’s a shot?

I can’t handle even the vaccine-hesitant folks who post sad videos of their babies getting shots and crying, while there’s some text like “Hope I’m doing the right thing…”

A baby can cry for 2 minutes or a baby can suffer a brain bleed/die of a preventable illness. Please get a grip.

hobo_chili | 19 days ago

I’m tired, boss.

Feather_Sigil | 19 days ago

Vaccination and vitamin shots shouldn't be a choice. But until we as a species put our adult pants on and make that a reality...

TRUST THE DOCTORS

TwoFlower68 | 19 days ago

This is a vitamin shot, not a vaccine. You need vitamin K for blood clotting (it's the K from Koagulation)

~~You get vitamin K from fresh leafy greens and fermented foods (and your gut bacteria if you eat a varied, fibre-rich diet), but many USAmericans, including pregnant women, don't have the healthiest of diets, so we give babies a vitamin shot~~

Vitamin K doesn't sufficiently cross the placenta so we give babies a vitamin shot

Edited because I learned a thing 🤗

my600catlife | 19 days ago

Babies are born without vitamin K stores regardless of the mother's diet because it doesn't cross the placenta efficiently.

Responsible_Top_6969 | 19 days ago

Babies are low in vitamin K before birth because it doesn't cross the placenta sufficiently. It has absolutely nothing to do with diet.

Feather_Sigil | 19 days ago

My mistake. Vitamin shots so your baby doesn't bleed out also shouldn't be a choice

TheStranding | 19 days ago

It 100% should be a choice, but this isn’t even a vaccine

Feather_Sigil | 19 days ago

My mistake. Vitamin shots so your baby doesn't bleed out also shouldn't be a choice

jsnswt | 19 days ago

Well maybe they shouldn’t reproduce in the first place. Serves them right

bchin22 | 19 days ago

Natural selection. We’ll be fine in another generation.

citizenjc | 19 days ago

Some lessons are learnt too late.

my_user_name_is_lame | 19 days ago

Is this the new birth control?

jackruby83 | 19 days ago

I guess we'll find out in 20 years if the population of MAGAT spawn has dwindled at all from their avoidance of appropriate healthcare.

Skittlebrau77 | 19 days ago

Idiots

throw9876away542 | 19 days ago

What is the eye antibiotic for

c_assassin_c | 19 days ago

Sometimes it’s hard to muster compassion and empathy

Razor_Grrl | 19 days ago

Literally the most absurd first world problem ever. A society so spoiled with advancement we have people wishing it was the dark ages. Letting their children die over it even.

catslikepets143 | 19 days ago

Darwinism weeds out the stupid

FanBehaviour2011 | 19 days ago

This is natural consequences at work and I don’t see why we would try to force their hand. Let them make their choices and let them reap what they sow

MrsWidgery | 19 days ago

Problem is, they don't: the infant is the one who pays the price, like Ms. Noem's dog paid the price for not being born already trained.

trying3216 | 19 days ago

Our government health authorities infantilized us for years. THEY have created the mistrust.

Parents SHOULD get the K shot.

But until health authorities are transparent the mistrust will continue.

atlantis_airlines | 19 days ago

What do you mean government health authorities infantilized us for years?

trying3216 | 19 days ago

Would you agree that every medicine , treatment, vaccine has both pros and cons? Effects and side effects?

Would you agree that a foundational tenet of medicine is informed consent? So that patients must be told, clearly, in a way they understand, all the pros and cons so they can make a decision (and that doctors must allow them to refuse services).

Now go do a search on any common vaccine - type something like should I get a diphtheria vaccine? Look at the first five articles from any authority. The articles will almost certainly try to persuade people to get the vaccine (fine). The articles will almost certainly not give any statistics on the risk.

Imo, people should get most vaccines. But they aren’t being informed. They are being treated like children.

yoweigh | 19 days ago

I can agree with all of that, but I don't think it's the primary reason for the medical misinformation clusterfuck we're in. Crunchy granola hippies used to be the vaccine sceptics up until COVID, when one party in particular decided to embrace the misinformation and weaponize it as a wedge issue. There's no reason to assume that more explicit risk assessment from the government would have prevented gullible idiots from being led down that path. The misinformation was already there.

Andrew Wakefield is more at fault than government is, IMO.

trying3216 | 19 days ago

So uou blame hippies, republicans, and Andrew but not health authorities?

yoweigh | 19 days ago

Nope, that's not what I said. I even agreed with everything you said at the beginning of my comment. More data for informed consent is a good thing. I just don't agree with your conclusion.

It's a complex situation with a lot of stuff going on. All of the above are at fault and that's not an exhaustive list. There isn't a single actor you can point to and assign all the blame, but IMO most of the blame goes to Wakefield. He was the one who initially (and fraudulently) gave the anti-vaxxers an air of legitimacy, and other people seized on it.

That's just my opinion, though. You're welcome to disagree.

trying3216 | 19 days ago

Do you think public officials give people the pros and cons so they can make informed decisions?

Are people like Wakefield emboldened because the gov looks dishonest?

atlantis_airlines | 18 days ago

Wednesday May 6, 2026. Location Western NY. Search engine, Google.

Process: I type "should I get a diphtheria vaccine?" into google.

Results:

First article result is advocatehealth.com

Who should get the Td or Tdap vaccines?

Experts recommend that all children 7 years and older and all adults get the Td or Tdap vaccine. Whooping cough is dangerous for those 60 years or older, and individuals with chronic lung disease such as asthma or COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease). People who may need a Tdap booster shot rather than Td are:

  • Health care workers who have direct patient contact
  • Adults who have never received Tdap
  • Anyone with a severe burn or wound

Who should not get the Td vaccine?

Most people should get the Td vaccine. But there are a few rare exceptions where the Td vaccine may not be safe for you. Talk with your health care provider if you have a history of:

  • Allergic reactions to any vaccines
  • Guillain-Barre syndrome
  • Severe pain or side effects after a previous tetanus-diphtheria vaccine

Td vaccine side effects

Some people experience side effects after the Td vaccine. Any tetanus shot side effects are typically mild and go away within one to two days. Tetanus shot side effects you might experience include:

  • Fatigue
  • Fever or chills
  • Headaches
  • Muscle aches
  • Reactions at the injection site, such as redness, swelling or soreness

Conclusion

This was a very simple summary that answered the query, "should I get a diphtheria vaccine?". It suggested that it was mostly safe, but that some individuals should not take it, and that if I were to take it that there was a high chance I could expect a number of side effects that could last up to several days. Notable was that the language used indicated that this was not a full list nor ruled out the possibility of more serious side effects.

trying3216 | 18 days ago

It failed.

It did EXACTLY what I told you it would do.

  1. it tried to persuade you to get the vaccine rather than give information to let you decide.

  2. It gave ZERO statistics on the risk.

It should say something like, “Your chances of experiencing a serious adverse outcome from diphtheria are xx/1000 while your chances of experiencing a serious adverse reaction to the vaccine are xx/1000. “

Do you see how in my example you can easily compare risk vs reward.

P.S. I have gotten that vaccine myself. I have looked up both parts to the risk/reward analysis. It was not easy. And people should do their due diligence and probably get the vaccine.

atlantis_airlines | 18 days ago

You're looking for statistics? What are you, a child? Statistics are influenced by a variety of factors that IF YOU READ THE INFORMATION, won't apply to you.

What's more you're not even taking into account this wasn't written for you, this was written for millions of people, some of whom aren't capable of making informed decisions because they're not smart enough to understand the information but still have the wisdom to know that maybe a doctor might know something about the body.

I'm starting to suspect you're not as smart as you think you are. Accusing a body of professionals of infantilizing the public because they voiced their professional opinion is either stupid or suggests you conflate contrarianism with intelligence. It's like you just hate the idea of someone knowing more feel a strong recommendation is patronizing.

Since you know so much about biology, explain to me what this means

Recent X‐ray analysis of an HLA‐DR3–CLIP crystal has demonstrated that residues -hereafter referred to as ‘core CLIP’—can bind essentially as a conventional antigenic peptide in the groove of class II molecules, whereby Met91 and Met99 represent the two primary anchor residues . Class II molecules of this complex were found to have the same structural organization as HLA‐DR1 complexed with HA peptide. CLIP has been functionally dissected into two regions: the N‐terminal portion, amino acids 81–98, is able to compete with the superantigen Staphylococcus aureus enterotoxin B for class II binding, while the C‐terminal region inhibits antigenic peptide binding to HLA‐DR molecules

If you can't then maybe you're not as qualified as the people measuring vaccine efficacy and safety. Because this is related the Major Histocompatibility Complex molecule which, as anyone studying biological defenses agains pathogens knows, is pretty fucking important.

atlantis_airlines | 18 days ago

Second search result:

https://www.cdc.gov/diphtheria/vaccines/index.html

Key points

  • CDC recommends diphtheria vaccination for everyone.
  • Diphtheria vaccines are the best way to protect against diphtheria and are very effective.
  • Talk to a vaccine provider if you have questions about diphtheria vaccines.

Overview

View LargerDownload

CDC recommends diphtheria vaccines for people of all ages.

There are 3 types of combination vaccines that include protection against diphtheria:

  • DTaP
  • Td
  • Tdap

The letter "T" in DTaP and Tdap shows they also help protect against tetanus. The letter "P/p" in DTaP and Tdap shows they also help protect against whooping cough (pertussis).

Keep Reading:Types of Diphtheria Vaccines

Why getting vaccinated is important

Diphtheria toxin kills healthy tissues and can cause many serious health problems. Diphtheria vaccines help protect against diphtheria.

Keep Reading:About Diphtheria

Who should and shouldn't get the vaccine

Vaccine recommendations

CDC recommends diphtheria vaccination for

  • Babies and children
  • Preteens and teens
  • Women who are pregnant (to prevent whooping cough in newborns)
  • Adults

Keep Reading:Diphtheria Vaccine Recommendations

Allergies, reactions: Talk with a vaccine provider

Talk to a vaccine provider about your vaccination history and a specific vaccine's ingredients. There may be times when someone shouldn't get DTaP, Td, or Tdap, like if they:

  • Had a life-threatening allergic reaction after the vaccine(s)
  • Have a life-threatening allergy to any part of the vaccine(s)

Additionally, discuss with a vaccine provider if a different vaccine other than DTaP or Tdap should be used. A vaccine provider may recommend a different vaccine if someone experienced encephalopathy within 7 days of receiving DTaP or Tdap. Encephalopathy is a brain disease that alters how the brain functions.

Feeling sick?

Generally, vaccination is fine during mild illnesses like a cold. A vaccine provider can advise on whether to get vaccinated or wait until you feel better.

Other guidelines

Tell the vaccine provider if you or your child:

  • Has seizures or another nervous system problem
  • as ever had Guillain-Barré syndrome (also called "GBS")
  • Had severe pain or swelling after a tetanus or diphtheria vaccine

How well they work

Vaccines that help protect against diphtheria work well but can't prevent all cases.

Keep Reading:How Well Diphtheria Vaccines Work

Possible side effects

Most people who get a vaccine that helps protect against diphtheria don't have any serious problems. With any medicine, including vaccines, there's a chance of side effects. These are usually mild and go away on their own within a few days, but serious reactions are possible.

DTaP vaccine

  • Swelling or soreness where the vaccine provider gave the vaccine
  • Fever
  • Irritability (fussiness)
  • Feeling tired
  • Loss of appetite
  • Vomiting

Td and Tdap vaccines

  • Pain, redness, or swelling where the vaccine provider gave the vaccine
  • Mild fever
  • Headache
  • Feeling tired
  • Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or stomachache

More serious reactions

More serious reactions after DTaP vaccination happen much less often than mild problems. They can include:

  • Seizures
  • Non-stop crying for 3 hours or more
  • High fever (over 105°F)

Rarely, DTaP vaccination is followed by swelling of the entire arm or leg. While rare, if it happens it's usually in older children when they receive their fourth or fifth shot.

Keep Reading:Safety Information for Diphtheria Vaccines

Finding and paying for vaccines

Vaccination locations

Children and teens

DTaP and Tdap are part of the routine childhood immunization schedule and regularly available for children at:

  • Pediatric and family practice offices
  • Community health clinics
  • Public health departments

Adults

For adults, a healthcare provider's office or pharmacy are usually the best places to receive recommended vaccines. If your healthcare provider doesn't have Td or Tdap vaccines, ask for a referral.

Federally funded health centers can also provide services if you don't have a regular source of health care. Locate one near you.

You can also contact your health department to learn more about where to get vaccines in your community.

Vaccine costs

There are several ways to cover the cost of DTaP, Td, and Tdap vaccines:

Private health insurance

Most private health insurance plans cover this vaccine. Check with your insurance provider for cost information and for a list of in-network vaccine providers.

Vaccines for Children program

The Vaccines for Children (VFC) program provides vaccines to children whose parents or guardians may not be able to afford them.

Resources

Vaccine schedules

Parent-friendly schedule for children (birth through 6 years)

Parent-friendly schedule for children (7 through 18 years)

Easy-to-read schedule for adults (19 years and older)

Vaccine Information Statements

DTaPEnglish | Other languages

TdEnglish | Other languages

TdapEnglish | Other languages

Educational Materials

Diphtheria

Tetanus

Whooping cough

State mandate information

Child care and elementary schools

Tdap booster requirements for secondary schools

Conclusion:

Being from the CDC, this was expected to be more detailed providing resources in English and Spanish as well as at a level tailored for the general public (as noted at the top of the page by the words "for everyone", but with links of further detail for anyone who had further questions about each section. Like the previous search result, who should not take the vaccine was included as well as what common side effects could be expected and with language that indicated more and more serious side effects were possible.

trying3216 | 18 days ago

That failed too for the same reason.

atlantis_airlines | 18 days ago

If you suspect a tree on your property is at risk of falling and damaging something so you hire arborist, do you feel they're infantilizing you when they make a recommendation as to what to do?

trying3216 | 18 days ago

I’ve had that experience. I asked the guy what the chances are that my tree would hit the house. He told me clearly that the chances were low. Of course, he didn’t have the data to give it an exact number.

The CDC does have the data.

But even if they wanted to describe the situation in words rather than numbers they could say:

“Your chances of experiencing an adverse even from diptheria are very very low while you’re chances of experiencing a serious adverse effect from the vaccine are very very low”

They didn’t do that either. They talked UP the disease risk and talked down the vaccine risks.

yourlittlebirdie | 19 days ago

Killing your baby because you’re mad at health authorities is…a choice.

trying3216 | 19 days ago

That’s not remotely what I said and you know it.

c_assassin_c | 19 days ago

It’s literally what’s happening. Along with significant portion of “owning the libs.” These ignorant assholes are killing their children for spite.

yourlittlebirdie | 19 days ago

It is what’s happening.

trying3216 | 19 days ago

It’s a shame. People should get that shot.

mhurchinson | 19 days ago

You'll need to explain why babies would spontaneously bleed without vitamin K. This clotting agent isn't without cost.

MBSMD | 19 days ago

The article explains why, yeah? And it's not a clotting agent. It's literally a vitamin.

>All newborns lack vitamin K. No matter how much vitamin K a mother consumes, it doesn’t sufficiently pass through the placenta, and breast milk contains only small amounts. That puts babies who are exclusively breastfed at a higher risk for vitamin K deficiency bleeding. Formula is fortified with vitamin K, but even with that, experts agree, babies should still get the shot.

catslikepets143 | 19 days ago

They don’t spontaneously bleed out & you’re just trolling. Maybe you can explain how a parent could describe the death of their baby due to the baby getting a cut. Instead of using a bandaid you’d be using a coffin.

You’re a troll or supremely uneducated

Kailynna | 19 days ago

It's not usually from a random cut. All babies have their umbilical cords cut, and some poor babies are even circumcised. Both my little brothers nearly bled out that way, long ago.

Jarsky2 | 19 days ago

Vitamin K isn't a clotting agent... it's a vitamin. An essential nutrient that the body uses in clotting.

You fucking idiot.

Kailynna | 19 days ago

Babies' umbilical cords are cut. Sometimes they won't heal and just keep bleeding. Sadly, in America, the barbaric practice of genital mutilation is often carried out on baby boys, and that can also lead to hemorrhage without vitamin K.

clover_heron | 19 days ago

How can you talk about clusters without talking about genetics? If these deaths are primarily or solely occurring in insular or closed groups then this is not a shot-hesitancy problem. Maybe consider this as an opportunity to better educate?

usamaahmad | 19 days ago

A cluster is a group, it in no way means that the group is genetically related. A cluster could mean they have something else in common - geography or behavior, in this case the cluster were from the same general area and had a belief that Vitamin K was unnecessary. Education would help, but as with other scientifically factual information, it can just as easily be ignored due to a variety of factors.

clover_heron | 19 days ago

You can't know the definition of the cluster until you investigate it, and until you investigate it the least you can do is acknowledge that clusters develop for different reasons. What if most or all of the babies in a cluster are connected to the same single fertility clinic, for example?

usamaahmad | 19 days ago

True - and this cluster from 2013 has likely been investigated. If there was some indication of genetics at play I would imagine the investigators would have learned and published this. I think you have a significant bias that it IS genetics and are also discounting the work that's already been done to investigate this cluster.

clover_heron | 19 days ago

You think if they found out that a cluster was linked to a religious group - or a sperm donor - with a measurable familial history of incest they would've reported it? I don't think so.

usamaahmad | 19 days ago

Do you have any indication of that phenomenon at play here?

clover_heron | 19 days ago

Babies internally bleeding to death + shot hesitancy behavior aren't obvious enough clues?

usamaahmad | 19 days ago

So you're doing the same thing that you're accusing these scientists of, best to just come out and say it. It seems like a lot of things this is multifactorial, driven by distrust of doctors / medical complex, aligning with social media "experts" and an element of rejecting the idea that "God" would have designed babies "wrong" or something. But it's not as simple as you're making it out. Ultimately it's important to parse all the factors out because the education you mentioned in your first post would need to address all contributing factors.

clover_heron | 19 days ago

I'm saying that whoever is investigating this should account for the possibility that the underlying problem with Vitamin K is generated by a dynamic that occurs inside the group from within which clusters develop.

One way to think about this is that the dying babies are alerting to a problem in their creation, which the Vitamin K shot may sort of have been unintentionally covering up. Strangely, mothers rejecting the shots may be what allows for the true cause to become observable.

usamaahmad | 19 days ago

I get what your'e saying - and that thought process leads one to consider the incest / homogeneity with this specific underlying risk. First, I don't think this is an ongoing active investigation, the 2013 cluster's investigation is done.

That being said, the underlying problem you're referring to is actually pretty common. Vitamin K doesn't cross through the placenta well, intake of vitamin K rich foods is generally low in most of the population, so there is not anything at the moment to suggest that if say suddenly a genetically diverse group of people decided not to give their infants Vit K that they would be safe from this outcome.