Tesla's lithium refinery discharges 231,000 gallons of polluted wastewater a day

298 points by atombender 2 hours ago on hackernews | 141 comments

malfist | an hour ago

This is the report from testing the water:

> Hexavalent chromium at 0.0104 milligrams per liter, just above the lab’s reporting limit of 0.01 mg/L. Hexavalent chromium is classified as a known human carcinogen by the US National Toxicology Program. It is the substance the Erin Brockovich case was built around.

> Arsenic at 0.0025 mg/L. That is below the federal drinking water standard of 0.01 mg/L, but present.

> Strontium at 1.17 mg/L. Mazloum’s technical report on the findings noted that long-term exposure can affect bone density and kidney function in humans and wildlife.

> Lithium and vanadium at concentrations Lazarte’s letter described as abnormally high relative to rainwater or normal groundwater.

> Elevated levels of manganese, iron, phosphorus, calcium, magnesium and potassium consistent with industrial discharge. Manganese, a battery process tracer, can have neurological effects at chronic doses. Excess phosphorus can cause algae blooms that strip oxygen from waterways.

> Ammonia in the form of nitrogen at 1.68 mg/L, amplifying the algae bloom risk.

Strip away the sensationalism, and it just doesn't seem like much? None of these levels seem to be high enough to impair health. The 1.68ppm of ammonia would likely contribute to algae growth, but not majorly, especially if properly diluted. Home aquariums regularly run between 0 and 0.25ppm of NH3 without major issues, so as long as this is diluted 6x it shouldn't impact things.

I hate elon as much as the next guy, and they should have disposed of the water properly, but it doesn't seem to be anything like them running their unpermitted power plants in Memphis.

delichon | an hour ago

> I hate elon as much as the next guy

I honor your refusal to presume guilt and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

malfist | an hour ago

It's mostly just excessive amounts of snark, gets exhausting, wouldn't recommend.

0cf8612b2e1e | an hour ago

If I am reading this correctly, the Erin Brockovich hexavalent chromium was detected in Hinkley at levels of 1.2 to 20 ppb (ug/L). Contrasted here with 10.4 ppb (ug/L). Sounds notable to me if they are regularly flooding the zone with this.

malfist | an hour ago

Looking at this: https://www.standardmethods.org/doi/10.2105/SMWW.2882.053:

> in streams it averages about 1 μg/L, and in groundwaters it is generally 100 μg/L

Seems like it's no more polluted than normal water. Somewhere in between groundwater and streams.

I dug up the actual results instead of an article about and article about an article talking about the lab results, they're here: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/28055380-j2673-1-uds...

That earlier link is to the method they used for detection.

porphyra | an hour ago

Obviously, discharging "dark and murky" polluted water is bad. But some of the figures from the lab report don't seem that terrible:

* Hexavalent chromium at 0.0104 milligrams per liter, just above the lab’s reporting limit of 0.01 mg/L. Hexavalent chromium is classified as a known human carcinogen by the US National Toxicology Program. It is the substance the Erin Brockovich case was built around.

* Arsenic at 0.0025 mg/L. That is below the federal drinking water standard of 0.01 mg/L, but present.

The hexavalent chromium is also just barely above the California drinking water standard [1]

[1] https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/drinking_water/certlic/drinki...

Waterluvian | an hour ago

If I wanted to fall under that reporting limit, can I just dilute my wastewater a bit more?

cwal37 | an hour ago

The classic pre-EPA slogan comes to mind: "the solution to pollution is dilution".

munk-a | an hour ago

The dosage makes the poison - but if it sticks around in the body dilution may slightly alleviate effects but at the cost of more widespread buildup. This is out of my field so I'm not certain if that's a concern here.

Terr_ | an hour ago

In some cases it still is, but we need to emphasize the exceptions, which can be rather serious.

For example, we can hardly "dilute" CFCs or CO2 any more than we did, by putting them into a whopping 5.15×10^18 kg of the entire atmosphere of the Earth. Yet both still cause bad things, because there's no (sufficient) process to break them down or move them to a safe state.

Zigurd | an hour ago

Accumulation makes the... what rhymes here?
I like where you're going with this.

"The solution to pollution is dilution, except when accumulation is a violation upon creation"?

Litigation

MisterTea | an hour ago

That is how car manufacturers worked around the old tail pipe emission laws. They added air pumps plumbed to the exhaust manifold(s) to increase the exhaust mass diluting the stream enough to pass emissions tests. Problem solved!

SoftTalker | an hour ago

Is that what a "smog pump" is (was)? LOL. I had heard the term but never knew what it was.

Along the same lines then as other emissions equipment that reduced fuel economy but achieved the ppm criteria in the exhaust. Yes, let's address pollution by burning more fuel.

cucumber3732842 | an hour ago

>That is how car manufacturers worked around the old tail pipe emission laws. They added air pumps plumbed to the exhaust manifold(s) to increase the exhaust mass diluting the stream enough to pass emissions tests. Problem solved!

I'm sure that people of a certain bent will eat your comment up but that's just not true.

Air pumps were for catalyst efficiency. The old ones needed extra oxygen molecules floating around for the big stuff (hydrocarbons) to oxidize with until the catalyst was up to operating temp and working at peak-ish efficiency.

Emissions have been measured by mass rather than concentration since 1972. So like yeah it "could've been done" but standards before that were light enough that they could just screw with other things that add $0 to the BOM to clean it up enough to pass.

MisterTea | an hour ago

> Air pumps were for catalyst efficiency. The old ones needed extra oxygen molecules floating around for the big stuff (hydrocarbons) to oxidize with until the catalyst was up to operating temp and working at peak-ish efficiency.

My experience comes from driving and working on a 1988 GMC 6000 truck with an anemic 350 small block with a Muncie SM465 behind it. There was no catalytic converter, only a muffler. It featured not one, but two air pumps, each feeding a set of pipes that led to metal tubes which entered the exhaust manifold opposite each exhaust port. Another odd thing about that truck was it had a choke lever, something I thought was long gone by 1988, and was a pain to start in the winter.

Perhaps other vehicles had a cat but this truck certainly did not.

cucumber3732842 | an hour ago

350ish (or less) + 4spd trucks kinda fell out of favor over the course of the 70s for bigger engines and 5spds (usually with a 2spd rear end but I digress). I'm sure you could still get one, but who would when you could get something better on the lot for the same money.

Sounds like someone swapped a 70s-80s engine from a lighter application in.

I don't think that truck would've had manual choke from the factory. Lots of stuff could've happened over the years.

The amount of air your engine breathes is monumental compared to what the smog pump moves. The math of dilution just doesn't work. What does work is pissing a light stream of oxygen (remember, not much of that coming out of the engine, especially on warm up while it runs rich) to help the catalyst burn those hydrocarbons off of itself a wee bit faster.

I'm not sure if an 80s gas MDT would've had cats from the factory.

alistairSH | 47 minutes ago

The 6000 was a commercial truck. It appears to have had a carburetor for most if not all of the 1980s.

bluGill | 50 minutes ago

In 1988 the factory put a cat in the exhaust. It also would have had fuel injection and a computer, and thus no choke. In short this truck was very much not stock (or possibly you are not in the US?) and so it is interesting but not helpful for the discussion.

Aurornis | 16 minutes ago

> My experience comes from driving and working on a 1988 GMC 6000 truck with an anemic 350 small block with a Muncie SM465 behind it. There was no catalytic converter,

Catalytic converters were required on all vehicles starting in 1975 in the US.

Your truck was modified by someone. You're drawing conclusion based on a modified vehicle.

Aurornis | 13 minutes ago

This is completely false.

The ECU turns on the secondary air system and enriches the fuel mixture so the exhaust temperature goes up, heating the catalytic converter rapidly. Catalytic converters must be hot to work, so getting them hot quickly is important.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_air_injection

EDIT: OP drove an older truck. In earlier days, the extra air injection into the exhaust was to provide some air for the secondary exhaust gasses to fully burn. It had to be done early in the exhaust where the exhaust gases are hot.

IshKebab | an hour ago

Presumably. But they are also limited on the volume of wastewater they are allowed to discharge, so it probably wouldn't be an ideal "solution".

phkahler | an hour ago

>> If I wanted to fall under that reporting limit, can I just dilute my wastewater a bit more?

It said the permit is for up to a certain amount of water per day. If you're at the volume limit there's no way to dilute by just adding more water.

sandworm101 | an hour ago

Unless you run it along a ditch so much of the water, and bad stuff, soaks into the soil before "discharge" at the property line.

SilverElfin | an hour ago

But does the amount per liter matter? The quantity matters too right? How much of these substances are being released in total? And since it’s into a drainage ditch that goes past what looks like farmland, does the higher local concentration cause more problems for the population in the area?

gdudeman | an hour ago

I think it does. Crops pull up a set amount of water. If it's concentrated, then they'll pull up a lot of heavy metals. If it's at very low levels, then they won't.

bayindirh | an hour ago

So, it's fine as long as it's legal, then?

How about when it enters the food chain and starts to accumulate? Will the elements say that "we're under legal limits, and accumulate slowly, so we will act nice and don't poison the organism we're in?"

Love that way of thinking.

> So, it's fine as long as it's legal, then?

> Love that way of thinking.

I mean.. yeah, kinda'? We live in a society made up of laws, that's kind of the premise. So if we don't think something is fine, we can make it illegal (and we often do).

It's a pretty good way of thinking methinks, what's your alternative?

fuzzy2 | an hour ago

Dunno, maybe strive to release no pollutants at all? Then we wouldn't need all the pesky big government overreach.

forshaper | an hour ago

How would you do that, assuming you wanted to keep up the material standard of living that the people you care about are used to?

baggy_trough | an hour ago

To exist is to pollute.

bayindirh | an hour ago

But you can pollute sustainably. e.g.: Composting, biodegradable materials, etc.

or unsustainably: e.g.: PFAS. For bonus points you can do internal research and hide the reports detailing the effects accurately.

jakelsaunders94 | an hour ago

Taking this as a good faith engineering argument. What does that mean? What do you constitute a pollutant and how much is zero?

I guess as a contrived example your breath releases 40k PPM Co2. Have you tried aiming for no pollution?

The reality is we make things which involve pollutants, which we create laws to govern the safe disposal of. Engineers optimise for these constraints the same way you do. You wouldn’t have one k8s pod per request to ‘strive to keep the response times as low as possible’.

goosejuice | an hour ago

Um, I'm pretty sure we can all get behind corps striving for the ideal. Fines align incentives.

Are you actually suggesting that we rely on the good will of a for profit corp? When has that ever worked?

Symmetry | an hour ago

In all of human history nobody has ever had a glass of water with literally no arsenic in it, there are trace amounts in every lake, river, and well. Even the ultra-purified water used in bleeding edge semiconductor fabrication has a lot more than 1 atom of arsenic per glass. In the far future humanity might obtain the technology to create water with literally no pollutants in it but that age has yet to arrive.
It's also a complete fiction in a world dominated by commercial interests, entrenched lobby groups, corrupt politicians and regulatory capture.

gdudeman | an hour ago

Is there an alternative?

We live in a much, much cleaner world than we did 50 years ago. Legislation and environmental rules have worked. There are some areas where it could obviously be better, but also some areas where regulation is too strict (blocking housing, renewables, transit) and the system is evolving to address those.

I think the loss of local media has made it harder for misdeeds to come to light, but I don't want to throw up my hands and cede everything to commercial interests et al.

I think a look at other countries would do well. There are many with much tighter regulations (e.g. EU countries, Singapore, Japan) and they seem to have good results with that.

> We live in a much, much cleaner world than we did 50 years ago. Legislation and environmental rules have worked.

I think prevention of pollution is one area where very tight regulation is absolutely needed, and this seems to be an argument for that.

Of course regulation can be weaponized and used as a tool to serve entrenched interests as well - but this is then more a problem with the overall political system. Also, I think a proof that this is the case is necessary instead of assuming it by default.

It kind of falls apart when large companies can lobby and bribe the people in charge of writing and enacting laws to make exception and write around their problem areas. Or can just make strategic donations to ease any risks of enforcement. Or collude to make sure the fine for whatever infraction is well below the profit margin of doing said infraction.

I don't care to argue semantics, just pointing out your reply was as hollow as your criticism to the person saying legal doesn't mean safe. It's a pretty reasonable thing to draw attention to methinks...

alterom | an hour ago

>I mean.. yeah, kinda'? We live in a society made up of laws, that's kind of the premise.

It might be news to you, but the laws don't dictate what's fine, and what isn't.

Aside from things like slavery being legal and homosexuality being illegal in the past, I'll note that it's perfectly legal for you to drink bleach, but it wouldn't really be fine for you to do that.

(I hope we can agree that advising people to do something "fine" isn't rude, but telling someone to go drink bleach would be) .

> So if we don't think something is fine, we can make it illegal (and we often do).

So, to boot, "it's fine as long as it's legal" doesn't apply to those things, youthinks.

Also, "we" is a peculiar pronoun that needs a lot of expansion, considering that the "we" negatively affected by "not fine" things isn't the same "we" that benefits from them, and it's the latter "we" that has direct influence on legislation.

Some interesting terms to read up on include "negative externality" and "corruption" (assuming youreads).

>It's a pretty good way of thinking methinks, what's your alternative?

If we turn to historical examples, the French Revolution certainly provides an example for alternative ways to resolve disparities between what's legal and what's fine.

There are plenty of others, but that question wasn't asked in good faith, methinks, and so doesn't deserve a more in-depth answer.

tekne | an hour ago

I mean... if it's got a similar amount of toxin X to drinking water... then it's probably not making things much worse.

There is lead in dirt!

Etheryte | an hour ago

The upper limit does not mean that water actually has that amount in it regularly.

cyberax | an hour ago

Arsenic and lead occur naturally through the food chain. If the levels of discharge are not significantly above the normal levels (and they aren't) then it's harmless.

gegtik | an hour ago

its all-natural

bluGill | an hour ago

They are still not harmless. They are normal. However if they are at all above natural (that is your input levels) you should treat and remove them. It is not unusual for the output of a sewage treatment plant to be cleaner water than what goes into your drinking water system.

xiaoyu2006 | an hour ago

> we're under legal limits

That's the definition of law. As long as it is legal it won't be charged.

bayindirh | an hour ago

What if the law is formulated to be convenient for corporations and not to protect the public and/or the environment?

gdudeman | an hour ago

Then we should work together as a society to fix the law and make sure it's applied evenly. Hard to do, but necessary.

Is there an alternative?

unglaublich | an hour ago

Then we should protest the law.

AlotOfReading | an hour ago

Emissions regulations are a balancing act. Industrial processes are inherently filthy. If you want copper, gold, lithium, or anything else that makes up the modern world, somewhere on earth was dirtied for that to be possible, and some of the pollution will get into the surroundings because zero emissions simply isn't possible. So we set certain levels of "acceptable emissions" as a balancing act.

I also agree that emissions should be tighter, but the location question is more interesting, because we can also choose where emissions happen.

For example, we might choose them to happen near cities/factories so the products are close to where they're used. We've mostly stopped doing that since the industrial revolution for pretty good reasons though. We could place them in the pristine landscapes not otherwise used by humans, like national parks. That's unpopular for hopefully obvious reasons. We could place them in sparsely inhabited deserts abroad, as Europeans did [0], before we collectively decided colonialism was a bad thing.

And lastly, we could place them in figurative deserts away from conservation land and people like monoculture farmland, but then we get to your question.

So, what's left? What are you suggesting as a better alternative?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bou_Craa

whimsicalism | an hour ago

What a ridiculous comment for something that is obviously extremely +EV for the environment.

stinkbeetle | 19 minutes ago

Wonderful to see so many people here embracing skepticism when it comes to government institutions, bureaucrats, and their "experts".

lovich | an hour ago

“Just barely above the California drinking water standard” is a really long way to say “past the limit”

baggy_trough | an hour ago

Yes, past the limit of drinking water, which is something different.

Aniket-N | an hour ago

please stop please stop and educate yourself. I dislike that this is the top message in a forum where we’re supposed to dig deeper.

The US regulatory standards are terrible. https://www.loudounwater.org/information-hexavalent-chromium...

The actual limits are orders of magnitude lower. Educate yourself.

riversflow | an hour ago

nah, there is no reason they should be discharging any hexavalent chromium, we have better, less insanely toxic ways of chroming things. trivalent chromium is much less toxic, hexavalent chromium should be banned world-wide.

what's more, i'm not finding a reason that tesla would need hexavalent chromium in battery production, which leads me to speculate that this is waste from one of their other car factories where they presumably have a hexavalent chrome line (it's a cheaper and more robust process than trivalent chrome) and they are mixing/discharging on purpose at the limit at this plant.

everfrustrated | an hour ago

This refinery is situated miles away from any other Tesla factories.

bluGill | an hour ago

I used to work in a factory that did chrome plating (I didn't work in that area, but since it was the same building), as part of my mandatory training before I was allowed to step foot in the building I had to learn there was a sewage plant just for the output of that line and if I had to dispose of waste water for any reasons I had to make sure I got it into the right system. Our sewage system couldn't treat toilet water, the city system can't treat chrome waste. (my waste disposal was limited to toilet and washing my hands - as you would expect from an engineer, but I still had to know about the system just in case)
They couldn't sell those cars in europe.

hansmayer | an hour ago

> But some of the figures from the lab report don't seem that terrible

> just above the lab’s reporting limit of 0.01 mg/L.

> just barely above the California drinking water standard

I ... just can't even say anything to this.

f33d5173 | 56 minutes ago

Are we doing "i just cant even" posting in 2026? Wastewater is not expected to be safe as drinking water, so it meeting the standards for drinking water shows how safe it is. If you have a reasonable argument to the contrary then please post it.

zoomthrowaway | an hour ago

> It is the substance the Erin Brockovich case was built around.

more about PG&E contamination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_groundwater_contaminat...

numpad0 | an hour ago

yaaaay hexavalent chromium and arsenic, the classics. Are they melting or plating something? Or is it just ores being ores?

MisterTea | an hour ago

My guess is the hexavalent chromium is leeched from plated metals in processing equipment. Very common plating substance and was more common before restrictions were put in place.

SoftTalker | an hour ago

What about:

Strontium at 1.17 mg/L

That seems like a misprint? Strontium is a fission byproduct. And that seems like a high amount if that's milligrams per liter.

landl0rd | an hour ago

Not really; strontium is quite common in the crust. In the oceans it occurs in the single-digit mg/L. This isn't a meaningful datapoint.

The entire article doesn't show particularly concerning findings and the protests read more like nimbyism than environmental concern. Industrial processes have some non-zero level of impact and complaining when someone runs one that's not very polluting at all is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Or it's just an attempt to outsource all the pollution to china, which is fine for many things (I'd rather they were polluted than us) but not critical minerals.

SoftTalker | an hour ago

Yes just searched it and found:

While natural strontium (which is mostly the isotope strontium-88) is stable, the synthetic strontium-90 is radioactive and is one of the most dangerous components of nuclear fallout, as strontium is absorbed by the body in a similar manner to calcium. Natural stable strontium is not hazardous to health at low levels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strontium

I guess I didn't realize that strontium had a stable naturally-occuring isotope.

pfdietz | 26 minutes ago

There are only two elements below the actinides that have no stable isotopes (technetium and promethium).

I include bismuth as stable even though technically it is radioactive with an extraordinarily long half life.

jandrewrogers | an hour ago

It is a normal metal. For example, the intense red color in fireworks is commonly strontium nitrate.

I think it is used in small quantities for industrial applications like welding, which seems a more likely source here.

unglaublich | an hour ago

Sure; if you run a "hazardous substance processing" company, you just take up an enormous amount of clean water and enrich it with the maximum amounts of arsenic, chromium, etc, and charge your clients a nice penny.

jandrewrogers | an hour ago

> Arsenic at 0.0025 mg/L

That is well below the noise floor. Like the similarly toxic selenium, arsenic is an essential micronutrient in animal biology. It is possible to be deficient in arsenic, though rare in practice. Natural background levels are far higher in many locales with no adverse effects.

I often see trace quantities of arsenic trotted out by the popular media for scaremongering purposes. Examples like the above are an immediate red flag.

youngtaff | an hour ago

And how long before this gets flagged off HN?
with Musk it is 100% ALWAYS

privatize the profits

socialize the costs

He does this with EVERY business, the tunnel stuff, the space launches, everything

How do you think he is almost the first TRILLIONAIRE which should not even be a thing

If you spent a dollar PER SECOND it would take 12 days to reach a MILLION

Dollar per second takes 32 YEARS to reach a BILLION

Dollar per second takes 32 THOUSAND YEARS to reach a TRILLION

callamdelaney | an hour ago

So glad we're making the switch to electric, it's good for the environment you know!

superxpro12 | an hour ago

Im sure the Gulf of Mexico reeeeeeally loved the deep water horizon oil spill. And we cleaned all that up right? We didnt just... dump "dispersants" on it to make it heavier than water so it sank to the bottom, right?

Exxon Valdez anyone?

Or how about clean air... who needs that?

nutjob2 | an hour ago

Yes, much better than ICE cars, by any measure.

cogman10 | an hour ago

It really is, particularly because of what it ends up replacing.

The alternative is burning and refining fossil fuels.

Louisiana has a large section of land referred to as "cancer alley". It's called that due to the released toxins from oil refining (most likely benzene).

The lithium extracted today will end up circulating in the supply chain for decades. Unlike the fossil fuels refined today which are burned tomorrow, fully releasing all their toxins.

Now, it could be cleaner. There's really no reason they couldn't distill the waste water and then reuse it.

munk-a | an hour ago

I'm glad you're so forward thinking. It is a genuinely better alternative to ICE engines for numerous reasons.

The best world would be significantly lessening the need for cars but electric is a clear win over gas.

john_strinlai | an hour ago

apparently, despite my thoughts going into this:

>Notably, no party has alleged that Tesla is in violation of any law. TCEQ [(Texas Commission on Environmental Quality)] has not found one. Tesla is operating under a permit the state agency issued. The dispute, instead, is about what the permit was supposed to cover, and what got left out of it.

tencentshill | an hour ago

As we all know, laws as written are perfect and just, especially in Texas, especially in relation to the environment. They should stop looking into it at all, really.

john_strinlai | an hour ago

that is a weird extrapolation from my comment. did you mean to reply to someone else?

i made no comment on whether the laws, as written, are appropriate or not.

rdtsc | an hour ago

> Quality, the state environmental regulator known as TCEQ, had quietly issued Tesla a wastewater discharge permit on January 15, 2025.

Are permits issued loudly usually?

charles_f | an hour ago

You've put in my head the picture of a jester announcing "hear! Hear! In which thereby the king allowth the forgerer so known as Tesla Mechanical Horses to discharge..."

john_strinlai | an hour ago

i think they just meant "quietly" as in not notifying the Nueces County drainage department that a permit was granted in their area.

rdtsc | an hour ago

That must be it. I can see if they are normally published or announced publicly somewhere, then it makes sense but if it's not done for other permits then it's sounds like they are implying nefariousness.

john_strinlai | an hour ago

my knowledge is from long ago, but, it would be expected for the state to communicate to the counties/cities about infrastructure permits such as this one. the counties/cities need to ensure their infrastructure planning accounts for everything in the area, regardless of the original permitting authority.

not sure if that is the standard in texas or not.

SoftTalker | an hour ago

It was probably unceremoniously posted on a website somewhere. Letter of the law satisfied.

nutjob2 | an hour ago

Yes, there's usually a chorus of trumpets, followed by fireworks.

mohamedkoubaa | an hour ago

The state of journalism in 2026

tencentshill | an hour ago

The article just... ends? "None of those facts are in dispute. What they mean is."

kridsdale1 | an hour ago

The sniper got em just in time.

john_strinlai | an hour ago

it ends. its just ambiguous writing.

"None of those facts are in dipsute. [However,] what [the facts] mean is [under dispute]."

tencentshill | an hour ago

Ah, I misread it.
Maximum tokens reached

aeternum | an hour ago

A state investigator visited on February 12, sampled the water flowing from Tesla’s outfall pipe, ran the standard panel of conventional pollutants: dissolved solids, chlorides, sulfates, oil and grease, temperature, dissolved oxygen. Everything in that panel came back inside the bounds of Tesla’s permit. TCEQ approved its investigation report on March 20, finding no permit violation.

The article then proceeds to explain how they did all kinds of non-standard tests and still found nothing above the federal drinking water standard nor in violation of the permit. Yes Tesla is still evil and responsible because supposedly some nearby town is having a drought and people are "running out of water."

Shit like this and we wonder why the US is dependent on China for all rare earths.

cyberax | an hour ago

> Ammonia in the form of nitrogen at 1.68 mg/L, amplifying the algae bloom risk.

:facepalm:

If you're fear-mongering, then at least take care to fear-monger correctly. From the numbers they report, it seems like Tesla is doing a good job with wastewater treatment.

Edit: clarification for people who are not chemists, it should be the other way around: "Nitrogen in the form of ammonia".

ex1fm3ta | an hour ago

Lithium production produce lots of toxic material. That's why I was happy the chinese were doing it for a penny. Of course driving carbon neutral but releasing tons of poison in the nature is a questionnable equation.

tredre3 | an hour ago

Isn't China great? First we make them produce all our stuff, then we bash them for polluting slightly more than us westerners, who produces nothing.

We win political points for globalism, we win political points for lower cost goods, then we win political points by virtue signaling about the environment! So convenient.

throwaway87410 | an hour ago

Obviously China should reap all the advantages of producing everything while bearing none of the responsibility, how could poor China be ever accountable for anything. Clearly the United States government should get involved to take care of the pollution caused by the Chinese industry, all out American taxpayer's pockets preferably.

otherme123 | an hour ago

It is even better: we grew cheaply by polluting freely, even doing absurd things like adding lead to gasoline knowing that lead is toxic. When we got rich, we leveraged that wealth to reduce some pollution, sending the worse industries to the developing countries.

Not saying that it was intentional, but we should not point fingers.

MisterTea | an hour ago

> That's why I was happy the chinese were doing it for a penny.

This is what all those pennies earned them: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150402-the-worst-place-...

SoftTalker | an hour ago

I was thinking about exactly that story when I read about this. It's all fine until it happens in your own backyard.

semiquaver | 56 minutes ago

  > was happy the chinese were doing [pollution far from me] for a penny
This is a racist sentiment. Shame on you.

Aloisius | an hour ago

My eyes glaze over any time an article uses the term "heavy metals" unironically.

This could be bad or it could not, but I simply can't take anything seriously that uses ambiguous terms so linked to woo.

nutjob2 | an hour ago

There is a reason China does so well refining metals like lithium and rare earths: it's difficult, resource intensive and polluting. They have about a 80% global share in lithium processing.

That doesn't matter under a communist dictatorship, but in more civilized countries people don't want it in their backyard.

ninalanyon | an hour ago

There is very little that is communist left in China.

perrohunter | an hour ago

what a coincidence, all they want to do is report negatively on anything that Tesla touches, I've grown skeptical on all these sort of reports, most likely other refineries have similar or worse track records, but that doesn't fit the narrative right?

gyanchawdhary | an hour ago

its basically Musk derangement syndrome .. anything Tesla/musk touches instantly gets turned into some giant scandal while similar or worse stuff from other companies gets ignored because it doesnt fit the narrative ..

PS: 99% of these keyboard warriors couldnt create 0.1% of what Musk and his companies have done for EVs,space, manufacturing, internet access .AI etc

TheJoeMan | an hour ago

Jason Bevan, Senior Manager of Site Operations at the Robstown plant, said in a written statement that the company “routinely monitors and tests its permitted wastewater discharge” and “remains in complete compliance with all requirements of its state-issued wastewater discharge permit, including applicable water quality standards.”

What an awful character. I am thankful I don't have to deceive or tell half-truths for a paycheck. The dispute is that they are discharging things not listed in the permit, and their response is that they don't exceed the limits of the things that are listed in the permit.

I also fault the government employee who submits a sample for testing from a lithium plant and doesn't check a box "test for lithium".

unglaublich | an hour ago

(Local) Governments are compliant / bought out to bend to the will of whatever company is providing them with some bucks.

cucumber3732842 | an hour ago

Kinda like when municipalities adopt rules they don't really agree with or think serves their interest because the state says they need to to quality for grant bucks? (and of course the feds to the same to the states)

However dirty you think the sausage factory is it's worse.

BoredPositron | an hour ago

The problem is a new generation of managers who aren't just rewarded for being awful; they're actually proud of it.

semiquaver | an hour ago

How is that a half truth? If you read the article it’s clear that this discharge is fully permitted and legal. All the substances they portray so shockingly were found at barely detectable levels.

I read the whole article and I don’t really understand what is being criticized, if not manufacturing itself. Do people think it’s possible to make a massive battery factory with zero industrial waste water output? Or do they think factories should only be in poor countries where they won’t have to think about them? If batteries stopped existing most people would be very unhappy, why be unwilling to pay the full cost of those substantial benefits?

giarc | an hour ago

Not OP but, half truth is here "remains in complete compliance with all requirements of its state-issued wastewater discharge permit" and yet... "Neither hexavalent chromium nor arsenic appears in Tesla’s TCEQ discharge permit as an allowable pollutant." Both which were found in the waste water. The original test did not test for those, so I guess what the guy was saying was true at a time?

semiquaver | an hour ago

The permit also didn’t list strawberry bubblegum. The levels of these pollutants were found to be similar to background levels. Where do you think arsenic comes from?

If the Texas regulators are asleep at the wheel then be mad at them. Businesses are guided by laws, but there’s no allegation any laws were broken. I’m no Tesla partisan but this just feels like mindless ragebait.

john_strinlai | an hour ago

neat trick is to realize you dont have to pick sides.

you can get mad at tesla for dumping wastewater with stuff they dont have a permit for, and you can be mad at the regulators failing to regulate.

semiquaver | an hour ago

But there is no evidence that they are dumping stuff they don’t have a permit for. Finding 1% over background levels in a sample tells you literally nothing.

Industrial waste is called such for a reason.

john_strinlai | an hour ago

>But there is no evidence that they are dumping stuff they don’t have a permit for

well, except for the hexavalent chromium and arsenic findings. but yeah, more testing is needed, and the article is premature.

> Industrial waste is called such for a reason.

Which is why you shouldn't dump it in a river used for fishing? (Or any river for that matter)

bluGill | an hour ago

There is my question - is this really normal or not? Tesla gets a lot of hate in the press (their CEO is a jerk), but that doesn't mean everything they do is evil. If these are things that come in via their drinking water system and then go out then I'm fine (it would be better if they would filter this but it is unreasonable to ask them to), if there are things they are adding they need to take care.

platevoltage | an hour ago

Being able to afford a US President has its perks.

pavel_lishin | an hour ago

Anyone else remembering Neal Stephenson's "Zodiac"?
> What [the wastewater discharge permit] did not do, explicitly, was grant Tesla the right to use public or private property for wastewater conveyance. The drainage district that manages the ditch the pipe was discharging into was never notified that the permit existed.

I find it kinda worrying that so much of the legal weight of this case doesn't seem to be about the untreated wastewater discharge at all but only about the detail that they used a county-owned ditch to do so.

So if Tesla had dug their own ditch or built the pipe all the way to Petronila Creek, the discharge would have been no problem?

(Well, that's not completely true as the additional pollutants aren't covered by the permit either - but without the ditch issue, probably no one would have commissioned an analysis of the water?)

nine_k | an hour ago

Can a big and rich company be fined for some minor technicality? Maybe! If the cost of the attempt is lower than the amount of the possible fine, why not try and find out? This may sound cynical, but this also one of the driving forces that often keep big companies from breaking rules.

politician | an hour ago

I wonder how many gallons of polluted wastewater are discharged per day by overseas refineries. Does anyone know where Tesla stacks up in the global list of lithium refiners?

Traster | an hour ago

To be honest I'm more worried about the data centres spaceX is powering through gas turbines just sitting in a parking lot.

something765478 | an hour ago

> The permit, a Texas Pollutant Discharge Elimination System authorization known as TPDES, allowed up to 231,000 gallons of treated wastewater per day to be discharged into an unnamed ditch that flows into Petronila Creek and from there into Baffin Bay, a longtime South Texas saltwater fishing destination.

Ok, so sounds like Tesla got the necessary legal provisions.

> What it did not do, explicitly, was grant Tesla the right to use public or private property for wastewater conveyance.

I'm confused, does Tesla have the right to dump water or not? I would assume that this is exactly what a permit is for?

> The drainage district that manages the ditch the pipe was discharging into was never notified that the permit existed

This should be on the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality; they issued the permit, so it should be on them to notify the affected area.

> Tesla also argues that the Eurofins sampling methodology was inappropriate, because the lab placed its sampling equipment in the ditch downstream of the outfall pipe rather than at the outfall itself. The permit requires monitoring at the outfall point, and the company has pointed out that ditch samples can pick up contaminants from sources that have nothing to do with Tesla’s wastewater.

As the article itself says, that is a legitimate argument.

Braxton1980 | an hour ago

Would Eurofins be able to set up monitoring on Tesla's property?

What other sources would have similar pollutants to a Lithium factory? It seems pretty specific and if there was some other obvious source why wouldn't Tesla point that out?

wongarsu | 44 minutes ago

They list 6 pollutants, but only two of them seem relevant to the legality of this.

One is an amount of arsenic that is a quarter of what's allowed in drinking water. So technically, someone dumping drinking water in the ditch could contaminate this measurement.

The other is hexavalent chromium, which is 4% higher than allowed. According to wikipedia that is "indeed one of the more widely used heavy metals in various sectors and industries (metallurgy, chemicals, textiles, etc.) with particular involvement in the metal coating sector" and used in the production of all kinds of dyes, paints, plastics, etc. It can also be formed by welding stainless steel, and is found in drinking water ... that doesn't sound very specific to me.

I don't know where that ditch is, but on google maps the Tesla lithum plant is right next to a place storing drilling equipment outdoors. Runoff from any kind of industry nearby could end up in that ditch. After all, collecting runoff is what ditches are there for

Hexavalent chromium can come from many industrial sources, including welding stainless steel. If you go to Tesla's lithium refinery in google maps[1] and follow the drainage ditch along highway 77 (to the northeast) about a half mile, you'll see a company called Tex-Isle Processing. They supply steel pipes and coating services for oil drilling.[2] It could be that one of their manufacturing processes creates hexavalent chromium.

In my opinion there isn't enough information to blame anyone for the slightly-above-drinking-water levels of hexavalent chromium. The drainage ditch goes along a highway and a rail line, so pollution could come from all kinds of places.

1. https://maps.app.goo.gl/7iNTbiPcs1sZ9CqP8

2. https://www.texisle.com/

tremon | an hour ago

> I'm confused, does Tesla have the right to dump water or not? I would assume that this is exactly what a permit is for?

If you have a permit to dump wastewater into a river, you are not allowed to dump your wastewater wherever in that river's basin on the assumption that it will eventually flow into the river. You are supposed to use a pipeline for wastewater transfer.

wongarsu | 59 minutes ago

But according to the article the permit is for dumping wastewater into a ditch. And Tesla appears to deliver the wastewater to that ditch by pipe. And it doesn't appear like the pipe is the topic of contention here, but where it ends and what comes out of it. All things that seem to be properly permitted, from what the article is telling us
They have a permit to dump water but not put it in the ditch where the pipe runs.

They need to get it to a body of water, not a ditch. Dumping into the drainage ditch or running a pipe in the drainage ditch requires a separate permit.

The water quality is also questionable. Tesla and the drainage company are at odds on the testing method.

At least that’s my understanding of the situation

solderlocks | 10 minutes ago

Doesn't the article state that "The permit, a Texas Pollutant Discharge Elimination System authorization known as TPDES, allowed up to 231,000 gallons of treated wastewater per day to be discharged into an unnamed ditch..."?

semiquaver | 59 minutes ago

But the permit is to discharge into a ditch. And that is also the ditch that they are discharging into.
> allowed up to 231,000 gallons of treated wastewater per day

What I'd like to know is what "treated" means here and whether the pollutants measured in the water are in compliance of that definition.

After all, the problem that there is an important fishing area downstream does not go away, whether there is a permit or not. So in my understanding, the whole reason why the permit could be issued in the first place was the assurance that the water was treated enough to not be a danger to downstream consumers. But pitch black fluid with questionable analysis results doesn't exactly seem like that.

> As the article itself says, that is a legitimate argument.

Technically yes, but I think it's somewhat unlikely that there just happens to be a chromium/arsenic/lithium/strontium deposit somewhere along the length of the ditch that would re-pollute Tesla's pristine wastewater and make the readings look bad.

Or at least, the question whether there are any potential other sources for the substances should be easy to answer, by looking at a map or sending someone to check the ditch for any other unexpected pipes.

1234letshaveatw | 19 minutes ago

whimsicalism | an hour ago

I'm no lover of Elon Musk but this article reads like a hit piece and I literally laughed when I read the findings:

> Hexavalent chromium at 0.0104 milligrams per liter, just above the lab’s reporting limit of 0.01 mg/L. Hexavalent chromium is classified as a known human carcinogen by the US National Toxicology Program. It is the substance the Erin Brockovich case was built around. Arsenic at 0.0025 mg/L. That is below the federal drinking water standard of 0.01 mg/L, but present. Strontium at 1.17 mg/L. Mazloum’s technical report on the findings noted that long-term exposure can affect bone density and kidney function in humans and wildlife. Lithium and vanadium at concentrations Lazarte’s letter described as abnormally high relative to rainwater or normal groundwater. Elevated levels of manganese, iron, phosphorus, calcium, magnesium and potassium consistent with industrial discharge. Manganese, a battery process tracer, can have neurological effects at chronic doses. Excess phosphorus can cause algae blooms that strip oxygen from waterways. Ammonia in the form of nitrogen at 1.68 mg/L, amplifying the algae bloom risk.

None of these are violating the permit.

Ultimately, I view this as a values question: Is it permissible to manufacture in the US or not?

outside1234 | an hour ago

Texas is going to be the superfund cleanup state in 20 years that Silicon Valley was in the 1980s from all of the sinning in the 1960s.
DOGE explicitly made gutting the EPA a top priority, which is probably why drainage workers are making these discoveries and not inspectors. Pretty much any company linked to Musk should be under increased scrutiny now. The trouble is, anyone who performs that scrutiny is likely to face intimidation and "lawfare".

Americans should carefully watch what happens to these workers and their county in the coming months. Beyond that, they should ask who is still keeping an eye on polluters in 2026.