I’m not trying to be a buzzkill, and I’m not saying that a cyber attack shouldn’t be written off. In fact, I would say that is a very likely possibility
But just as likely to me, is someone at the central command intending to select only one unit to defrost. And selecting all of them.
By the way, that suggests accident. It could also be an insider attack (disgruntled employee).
Regardless, the fact that this was allowed to happen should really trigger an investigation into why these food critical installations even needed to be connected to the Internet in the first place, and writable.
Or selected the production system instead of the test environment. A bug is also possible.
I'm not sure a country with access to that system would trigger than now. Doing it in times of active war would have tangible benefits against bases but even more against remote bases or deployed units (like ships). Now I'm wondering if any of these has been affected; we probably won't know right away.
The US is in an active war now, with ships deployed far from supply depots for longer than usual time spans. Seems like a perfectly fine time for Iran to do something like this, if they could do it to the relevant parts of the supply chain.
My point was that unless the currently deployed ships or remote bases are affected, this seems like a sub-strategic moment to run such an attack. There's value in doing that but it's limited right now since there is no strain on supplying.
Yes, that's true - assuming it didn't affect other places too. We probably wouldn't be told about any effects on more important targets.
Also, it's not obvious that this department has anything to do with delivering supplies to active duty units - the name suggests they have nothing to with that.
Another boring possibility is common cause fault via a bug in firmware that all the affected fridge controllers are running.
Another exciting possibility is that there have in history been recorded incidents where someone doing computer intrusion got confused and sabotaged the wrong machines by mistake. :)
Even if it is computer intrusion, there are boring possibilities like maybe it was done by some random individual without any state or organisation backing them. If that's the case they might now be panicking and trying to maintain opsec by staying silent about it because they were being foolish and didn't think about how unpleasant attracting the ire of the US Army would be, until after they clicked the defrost button.
It could even be someone who found a bunch of vulnerable fridge controllers on Shodan and didn't know that they belonged to Army commissaries.
I was operating under the assumption that this was centrally triggered, based on some of the claims the article makes. But I suppose, much of that is speculation as well
It seems like Iran would be a more likely culprit than China, considering the current war. Especially with the logistical food problems the US navy is having, any disruption in that area would benefit Iran.
Yeah Iran does seem like the most likely suspect and it is a legitimate, though low-impact, target. It's also a good example to point to for the need to improve cybersecurity because you can easily point to it and say "Do you really think that your power plant is a lower priority target than a fucking freezer?".
I get the Iranians hacking freezers at bases in the Middle East - doing so would have a direct impact on the war - but hacking them in mainland USA doesn't make sense to me. It exposes their hacking capability while not having a meaningful impact on US supply chains.
Like burning a zero-day on a non-strategic target.
I don't begin to understand nation state power operates, but I can think of at least one plausible reason: To show you can. i.e. to scare/shake something loose. Perhaps the US and Iran are trying to walk back the current escalations, but Iran really wants their ability to tax oil going through the strait or whatever. If they show they have more capabilities than they have previously shown, it could shake loose something.
Maybe not Iran, maybe some other world power upset with the USA. It's not like there isn't a whole stack of mad at the current US govt right now from all over the world.
My guess is still on some poor govt worker pushing the wrong button somewhere by mistake though. Before reaching to big/wild conclusions, first prove the idiotic ones didn't happen first.
An army marches on its stomach, so if you get rid of the food from the stomach then they can't march at all. Or something. Anyway, what an interesting and fun security incident, although I wouldn't like it to happen to where I get my eggs and milk from, for sure.
Hellion | 19 hours ago
I’m not trying to be a buzzkill, and I’m not saying that a cyber attack shouldn’t be written off. In fact, I would say that is a very likely possibility
But just as likely to me, is someone at the central command intending to select only one unit to defrost. And selecting all of them.
By the way, that suggests accident. It could also be an insider attack (disgruntled employee).
Regardless, the fact that this was allowed to happen should really trigger an investigation into why these food critical installations even needed to be connected to the Internet in the first place, and writable.
adrien | 18 hours ago
Or selected the production system instead of the test environment. A bug is also possible.
I'm not sure a country with access to that system would trigger than now. Doing it in times of active war would have tangible benefits against bases but even more against remote bases or deployed units (like ships). Now I'm wondering if any of these has been affected; we probably won't know right away.
m_eiman | 17 hours ago
The US is in an active war now, with ships deployed far from supply depots for longer than usual time spans. Seems like a perfectly fine time for Iran to do something like this, if they could do it to the relevant parts of the supply chain.
adrien | 12 hours ago
My point was that unless the currently deployed ships or remote bases are affected, this seems like a sub-strategic moment to run such an attack. There's value in doing that but it's limited right now since there is no strain on supplying.
m_eiman | 10 hours ago
Yes, that's true - assuming it didn't affect other places too. We probably wouldn't be told about any effects on more important targets.
Also, it's not obvious that this department has anything to do with delivering supplies to active duty units - the name suggests they have nothing to with that.
0x2ba22e11 | 10 hours ago
Another boring possibility is common cause fault via a bug in firmware that all the affected fridge controllers are running.
Another exciting possibility is that there have in history been recorded incidents where someone doing computer intrusion got confused and sabotaged the wrong machines by mistake. :)
Even if it is computer intrusion, there are boring possibilities like maybe it was done by some random individual without any state or organisation backing them. If that's the case they might now be panicking and trying to maintain opsec by staying silent about it because they were being foolish and didn't think about how unpleasant attracting the ire of the US Army would be, until after they clicked the defrost button.
It could even be someone who found a bunch of vulnerable fridge controllers on Shodan and didn't know that they belonged to Army commissaries.
Hellion | 8 hours ago
I was operating under the assumption that this was centrally triggered, based on some of the claims the article makes. But I suppose, much of that is speculation as well
It could be any of a large number of things.
raven | 8 hours ago
the nefarious chinese have made me stub my toe once again.
alexjurkiewicz | 16 hours ago
Come on, can't a Substack garner views with a ridiculous conclusion??
cpurdy | 13 hours ago
Assuming that is a serious question, the answer appears to be "no".
m_eiman | 21 hours ago
It seems like Iran would be a more likely culprit than China, considering the current war. Especially with the logistical food problems the US navy is having, any disruption in that area would benefit Iran.
JulianSildenLanglo | 20 hours ago
Yeah Iran does seem like the most likely suspect and it is a legitimate, though low-impact, target. It's also a good example to point to for the need to improve cybersecurity because you can easily point to it and say "Do you really think that your power plant is a lower priority target than a fucking freezer?".
reezer | 19 hours ago
Or as it's custom with such things, some teen.
Examples:
Or it wasn't. Just feels odd to consider any option "likely".
simonw | 15 hours ago
I get the Iranians hacking freezers at bases in the Middle East - doing so would have a direct impact on the war - but hacking them in mainland USA doesn't make sense to me. It exposes their hacking capability while not having a meaningful impact on US supply chains.
Like burning a zero-day on a non-strategic target.
zie | 10 hours ago
I don't begin to understand nation state power operates, but I can think of at least one plausible reason: To show you can. i.e. to scare/shake something loose. Perhaps the US and Iran are trying to walk back the current escalations, but Iran really wants their ability to tax oil going through the strait or whatever. If they show they have more capabilities than they have previously shown, it could shake loose something.
Maybe not Iran, maybe some other world power upset with the USA. It's not like there isn't a whole stack of mad at the current US govt right now from all over the world.
My guess is still on some poor govt worker pushing the wrong button somewhere by mistake though. Before reaching to big/wild conclusions, first prove the idiotic ones didn't happen first.
Sanity | 16 hours ago
Funny coincidence, my neighbour's deep freezer also stopped working out of the blue last week. I'm afraid to ask him if it was connected to the net...
rainbow_bird | 15 hours ago
An army marches on its stomach, so if you get rid of the food from the stomach then they can't march at all. Or something. Anyway, what an interesting and fun security incident, although I wouldn't like it to happen to where I get my eggs and milk from, for sure.