This glosses over a lot of what happened in the cultural revolution. It was a notoriously dangerous time to be an intellectual in China. And I believe the USSR tended to be friendly to science that could help them project power. Authoritarians don't tend to fund science for the sake of truth seeking.
Ok I say this as a far left socialist… what about Pol Pot? That whole movement was deeply anti-intellectual. China sent their academics to labor camps in the 50’s. I think the reality is… it depends.
It really depends on whether the current government sees your science as a threat to their ideology or not. In the Soviet Union, for example, there was the anti-genetic Lysenkoism which led to the death of about 7 million of their citizens and about 38 million Chinese from famine.
And in the US we have RFK Jr and the "conservative science" movement that are wrecking progress in cancer treatments, gene and cell therapies, and at a more basic level are even wrecking the safety of the US food supply.
lol, be for real dude. One of the main reasons china and the USSR faced such massive famines was because they refused to believe in genetics and killed off their geneticists, opting instead for some pseudoscience bullshit because they needed to be ideologically different from the fascist and capitalists in every way possible. Their refusal of sound science literally got tens of millions killed. It’s an object lesson in anti-Intellectualism for any country. Modern day socialist countries fair between and the space race certainly helped change their tune but the communists of the 20th century made some of their most vital mistakes by rejecting science and killing off scientists they disagreed with.
yeah, it’s actually not shocking that the United States hates science. there are too many religious people here, and religion and science are not truly compatible.
kazakhstan, kyrgyzstan, tajikistan, turkmenistan , afghanistan’s certainly weren’t awesome to scientists during their communist phases. they did fund them but they also couldn’t publish anything that would be counter to the regime without very dire consequences.
Well, fundamentalism tends to suck the fun out of anything. Religious fundamentalism and communism are also some rather odd bed fellows if I do say so myself.
Khmer Rouge? Probably the most evil government in history? They hung you from a tree and bashed you against the trunk until you died if you wore glasses, because they made you look smart.
There's definitely a wide gulf between authoritarianism in China and the US, with China being much worse for freedom of speech. Just because democracy is declining in the US does not mean that China is benevolent or even its equal.
I don’t think anyone in the comments is for referring to authoritarianism other than to say if a country is more open to science and more likely to pay for it then why wouldn’t you go there? If people choose live in a democracy because it is a democracy there’s nothing wrong with that.
However, if the democracy is not paying for science, is trying to tilt the scales one way or the other, and using bad faith I’m not sure how it benefits either the scientist or the democracy.
The previous commenter is doing a both sides argument with the US in China, implying that the US and China are basically the same in terms of freedoms.
Yea no shit. If they actually listened to us scientists, maybe shit wouldn’t be so bad because, hmm, maybe we have some insight to the implications of our work. This especially includes the non-hard sciences like social science, but that will never fucking happen… This is coming from a 28 year old physicist too, Im as hardcore STEM as it gets, AND Im in a field that is currently being shoveled money unlike many of my colleagues who are seeing cuts left and right
People don’t realize that society drives science. Those who study social science and the liberal arts act as a harness for the more technical practitioners. When science becomes divorced from social and ethical frameworks, we get destruction. It’s literally the premise of the manhattan project and the Oppenheimer movie that came out a few years ago. If science and research is ran like a business where the goal is profit for shareholders and political gain, we are doing more than shooting ourselves in the foot; we are murder-suiciding the very creativity and ingenuity that drives our species forward simply for profit to line rich people’s pockets. Science is cumulative. Many projects that people embark on are a collective of other people’s lifetime’s of research. These things aren’t meant to see profits in a year. They may not produce anything commercially viable for 10, 20, 50, 100 years even. So why do we do it? Because our species has a brain built for being nosy and figuring it the fuck out.
Take NASA for example. It’s an institution that not only serves as the hallmark of innovation, but inspires kids all around the world. Not for the sake of war or violence (nuanced lol I know), but to show what we are capable of and to get kids thinking about the world and universe around us. Their projects tend to be decades long with no profit incentive, but rather the willingness and pursuit of discovery. These kids are the next generation of scientists, the ones who can't seem to stifle that curiosity and wonder inspired by the great thinkers and institutions that came before them. In the past two years, NASA has been absolutely gutted. Taken down a few pegs simply because they weren’t “efficient” or garnering money, and that private institutions (like SpaceX) are more "worthy"... Our admin has lost the point of it all, and I’m not sure where the tipping point is where we can say “it’s too late”, but it sure feels like it’s creeping just around the corner.
Just wait. Do this survey again in Trump's last year of his term and it will be much worse. Trump and his cronies are actively destroying everything this country has to make it more vulnerable.
As a scientist, I am genuinely asking this question to myself: What is the benefit of living in the USA in 2026?
About 5 years ago, I remember answering this question as: I earn more than my counterparts in other parts of the world, eventually government works for people, I do not need to be afraid or respect of anyone in the world.
Now in 2026; none of them hold. So, genuinely asking: If an asshole plants a jet engine sound maker (datacenter) next to your house and you can do nothing, healthcare pushes you to death, you cannot buy a home, cannot afford basic things, and on top of that you do not have democracy, seriously, what is the benefit of living in the USA?
Why would people want to work here and provide factually correct good scientific research when it gets completely ignored by this administration because they need complete control of a narrative to maintain power, for whatever their nefarious objectives are. Anyone who has brains should probably leave the USA for a country that actually uplifts its citizens and celebrates scientific successes and research and is more transparent. This admin is not that, not even close. This administration would fire you and cut funding to your department if you brought them information that contradicts what they've been espousing.
Dude, we're done, China and Europe beat us unless we have MAJOR societal overhauls. We're mostly being led by the Christian equivalent of the Taliban, or flat out idiots.
I left research to study medicine after 15 years. Even in industry the pay is low and the fear of layoffs never ends. Academia is much worse with all of the funding cuts. No amount of passion is enough to keep me from building a better life for me and my family.
First prove to me the US is not part of a media illusion, then look back and see what the problem with science is. (It rhymes with appeal to tauthority.)
Apologies, I was offering an alternative perspective, and I can see how I could have been a lot more clear and concise.
What I meant was that I think there are many reasons and nuances as to why younger scientists are not choosing to go into academia.
Educational institutions are losing credibility because of misinformation and disinformation, sometimes even conspiracy narratives, being spread in divisive isolated media silos.
If people can't rely on research or academia for a steady income, and run the risk of social or political persecution for working in the field, then why would anyone pursue academia?
It just makes no economic or practical sense to young people anymore because the incentives are just not there anymore.
I understand the article states much the same as reasons why folks are not choosing academia.
Sorry for not reading the article with more diligence initially. I will remember this in the future before commenting.
I’m an autodidact too, and you’re absolutely full of shit. None of this wet dream of Milton Friedman’s has been affordable, both socioeconomically or ethically.
Well, I'm using my research skills to help my town draft ordinances around data centers so that our residents don't get taken advantage of by developers, and I'm planning a run for town council when a seat opens up next year.
I'm not sure I'm what makes you feel entitled to be so rude to people that you don't even know. But that's a your choice.
> One-third of young scientists who were planning careers in academic research changed their minds in the spring of 2025, according to a new survey, with fewer expecting to remain in higher education and in the U.S. to work or feeling that pursuing a Ph.D. was the right decision.
Okay, so instead of 58,000 new PhDs each year competing for 25,000 tenure-track positions, we only have 39,000 new PhDs. Where's the downside here? I'm not seeing it. How can any informed person think this is a problem?
Dangermouse454 | 19 hours ago
Well… put the biggest idiots in charge, cut funding and reporting, see unfavorable results. Don’t have to be a scientist to figure that out
Putrid-Computer-5116 | 15 hours ago
But enough about coviid reponse and horrific healthcare messaging already.
Weneed actual scientists to tell it like it is and not sugarcoat it and not work in service of governments but in the service scientific truths.
Clone63 | 12 hours ago
We need a government that isn't directly opposed to scientific truths.
braaaaaaainworms | 48 minutes ago
Do you really think that comment was about covid response?
Rattus_NorvegicUwUs | 20 hours ago
If I wanted to live in a one party system without freedoms, I’d at least move to China where they build things and plan for the future.
Dennarb | 20 hours ago
Doesn't help that China is also more friendly to academics than the USA right now, which is not something I would have ever thought possible.
NaBrO-Barium | 19 hours ago
Communism has always been friendly to the sciences
PsychologicalLoss829 | 19 hours ago
Sure... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_and_the_Scientists
Cosmic_Prop | 19 hours ago
This glosses over a lot of what happened in the cultural revolution. It was a notoriously dangerous time to be an intellectual in China. And I believe the USSR tended to be friendly to science that could help them project power. Authoritarians don't tend to fund science for the sake of truth seeking.
bismuthtaste | 19 hours ago
Ok I say this as a far left socialist… what about Pol Pot? That whole movement was deeply anti-intellectual. China sent their academics to labor camps in the 50’s. I think the reality is… it depends.
[OP] PerAsperaAdMars | 19 hours ago
It really depends on whether the current government sees your science as a threat to their ideology or not. In the Soviet Union, for example, there was the anti-genetic Lysenkoism which led to the death of about 7 million of their citizens and about 38 million Chinese from famine.
Cersad | 9 hours ago
And in the US we have RFK Jr and the "conservative science" movement that are wrecking progress in cancer treatments, gene and cell therapies, and at a more basic level are even wrecking the safety of the US food supply.
calvinshobbes0 | 19 hours ago
Except during the cultural revolution where millions were sent to rural area
More_Programmer8905 | 19 hours ago
Or killed. I know it's a TV series based on a book, but 'The Three-Body Problem' began with a scene depicting what they did to academics.
cathaysia | 17 hours ago
Science tells us there is always an outlier.
PhD_Pwnology | 19 hours ago
Huh?? Lol You must have missed the literal purges that happened in communist Russia and China of their scientists.
Superb_Gap_1044 | 17 hours ago
lol, be for real dude. One of the main reasons china and the USSR faced such massive famines was because they refused to believe in genetics and killed off their geneticists, opting instead for some pseudoscience bullshit because they needed to be ideologically different from the fascist and capitalists in every way possible. Their refusal of sound science literally got tens of millions killed. It’s an object lesson in anti-Intellectualism for any country. Modern day socialist countries fair between and the space race certainly helped change their tune but the communists of the 20th century made some of their most vital mistakes by rejecting science and killing off scientists they disagreed with.
nmisvalley2 | 19 hours ago
No it hasn't. Khmer Rouge hated the scientists and the educated. So much so, that they would murder those who wore glasses.
theRemixNow | 19 hours ago
yeah, it’s actually not shocking that the United States hates science. there are too many religious people here, and religion and science are not truly compatible.
What_Civil_Rights | 18 hours ago
kazakhstan, kyrgyzstan, tajikistan, turkmenistan , afghanistan’s certainly weren’t awesome to scientists during their communist phases. they did fund them but they also couldn’t publish anything that would be counter to the regime without very dire consequences.
NaBrO-Barium | 17 hours ago
Well, fundamentalism tends to suck the fun out of anything. Religious fundamentalism and communism are also some rather odd bed fellows if I do say so myself.
AltruisticCoelacanth | 18 hours ago
Khmer Rouge? Probably the most evil government in history? They hung you from a tree and bashed you against the trunk until you died if you wore glasses, because they made you look smart.
AdAffectionate1581 | 18 hours ago
The 250 year old country against the thousand years of history of China. They literally have a manual to ensure stability and long-term planning.
kittenTakeover | 17 hours ago
There's definitely a wide gulf between authoritarianism in China and the US, with China being much worse for freedom of speech. Just because democracy is declining in the US does not mean that China is benevolent or even its equal.
horseradishstalker | 16 hours ago
I don’t think anyone in the comments is for referring to authoritarianism other than to say if a country is more open to science and more likely to pay for it then why wouldn’t you go there? If people choose live in a democracy because it is a democracy there’s nothing wrong with that.
However, if the democracy is not paying for science, is trying to tilt the scales one way or the other, and using bad faith I’m not sure how it benefits either the scientist or the democracy.
Edit: clarity
kittenTakeover | 16 hours ago
The previous commenter is doing a both sides argument with the US in China, implying that the US and China are basically the same in terms of freedoms.
louisa1925 | 21 hours ago
Honest Science is pretty much dead in Pedo Trumps America.
Will2LiveFading | 21 hours ago
No body worth a damn wants to stay here. Good job team orange.
Sufficient_Loss9301 | 20 hours ago
Impossible to go anywhere unless you’re a “refuge” unfortunately… the immigration system is so convoluted for anyone trying to do it legitimately.
autocorrects | 20 hours ago
Yea no shit. If they actually listened to us scientists, maybe shit wouldn’t be so bad because, hmm, maybe we have some insight to the implications of our work. This especially includes the non-hard sciences like social science, but that will never fucking happen… This is coming from a 28 year old physicist too, Im as hardcore STEM as it gets, AND Im in a field that is currently being shoveled money unlike many of my colleagues who are seeing cuts left and right
People don’t realize that society drives science. Those who study social science and the liberal arts act as a harness for the more technical practitioners. When science becomes divorced from social and ethical frameworks, we get destruction. It’s literally the premise of the manhattan project and the Oppenheimer movie that came out a few years ago. If science and research is ran like a business where the goal is profit for shareholders and political gain, we are doing more than shooting ourselves in the foot; we are murder-suiciding the very creativity and ingenuity that drives our species forward simply for profit to line rich people’s pockets. Science is cumulative. Many projects that people embark on are a collective of other people’s lifetime’s of research. These things aren’t meant to see profits in a year. They may not produce anything commercially viable for 10, 20, 50, 100 years even. So why do we do it? Because our species has a brain built for being nosy and figuring it the fuck out.
Take NASA for example. It’s an institution that not only serves as the hallmark of innovation, but inspires kids all around the world. Not for the sake of war or violence (nuanced lol I know), but to show what we are capable of and to get kids thinking about the world and universe around us. Their projects tend to be decades long with no profit incentive, but rather the willingness and pursuit of discovery. These kids are the next generation of scientists, the ones who can't seem to stifle that curiosity and wonder inspired by the great thinkers and institutions that came before them. In the past two years, NASA has been absolutely gutted. Taken down a few pegs simply because they weren’t “efficient” or garnering money, and that private institutions (like SpaceX) are more "worthy"... Our admin has lost the point of it all, and I’m not sure where the tipping point is where we can say “it’s too late”, but it sure feels like it’s creeping just around the corner.
soapbox moment sorry i’m upset
RG3ST21 | 19 hours ago
this was great. thanks.
TheRadiorobot | 19 hours ago
Please speak out! Thankyou.
TargaryenPenguin | 16 hours ago
Great speech
Known_Attorney_456 | 19 hours ago
Just wait. Do this survey again in Trump's last year of his term and it will be much worse. Trump and his cronies are actively destroying everything this country has to make it more vulnerable.
seeker_of_knowledge | 19 hours ago
No shit. "We burned down someones house and asked how they see the future of housing"
melekin | 17 hours ago
As a scientist, I am genuinely asking this question to myself: What is the benefit of living in the USA in 2026?
About 5 years ago, I remember answering this question as: I earn more than my counterparts in other parts of the world, eventually government works for people, I do not need to be afraid or respect of anyone in the world.
Now in 2026; none of them hold. So, genuinely asking: If an asshole plants a jet engine sound maker (datacenter) next to your house and you can do nothing, healthcare pushes you to death, you cannot buy a home, cannot afford basic things, and on top of that you do not have democracy, seriously, what is the benefit of living in the USA?
BigTunaTim | 18 hours ago
Project 2025 is proceeding according to plan.
Derpykins666 | 14 hours ago
Why would people want to work here and provide factually correct good scientific research when it gets completely ignored by this administration because they need complete control of a narrative to maintain power, for whatever their nefarious objectives are. Anyone who has brains should probably leave the USA for a country that actually uplifts its citizens and celebrates scientific successes and research and is more transparent. This admin is not that, not even close. This administration would fire you and cut funding to your department if you brought them information that contradicts what they've been espousing.
Important-Factor-552 | 9 hours ago
The future of science in America is to piggyback on science in china lol
timnbit | 6 hours ago
I wonder how things are going in Canada?
Killahdanks1 | 6 hours ago
Don’t worry scientists. We will need you more than ever and your average salary will go up an unbelievable amount to recover.
unknownpoltroon | 6 hours ago
Dude, we're done, China and Europe beat us unless we have MAJOR societal overhauls. We're mostly being led by the Christian equivalent of the Taliban, or flat out idiots.
yoyogi_voidwalker | 5 hours ago
I left research to study medicine after 15 years. Even in industry the pay is low and the fear of layoffs never ends. Academia is much worse with all of the funding cuts. No amount of passion is enough to keep me from building a better life for me and my family.
EngineeringTight367 | 17 hours ago
First prove to me the US is not part of a media illusion, then look back and see what the problem with science is. (It rhymes with appeal to tauthority.)
EFIW1560 | 21 hours ago
Well I wont make the mistake of commenting before reading an article again.
mootmutemoat | 21 hours ago
Good for you, but curious how you see that is relevant to the article and the larger issues it is describing.
Dennarb | 20 hours ago
It isn't, but the "dO yUOr OWn reSeARch!!!" crowd isn't know for having very strong critical thinking skills
EFIW1560 | 13 hours ago
Apologies, I was offering an alternative perspective, and I can see how I could have been a lot more clear and concise.
What I meant was that I think there are many reasons and nuances as to why younger scientists are not choosing to go into academia.
Educational institutions are losing credibility because of misinformation and disinformation, sometimes even conspiracy narratives, being spread in divisive isolated media silos.
If people can't rely on research or academia for a steady income, and run the risk of social or political persecution for working in the field, then why would anyone pursue academia?
It just makes no economic or practical sense to young people anymore because the incentives are just not there anymore.
I understand the article states much the same as reasons why folks are not choosing academia.
Sorry for not reading the article with more diligence initially. I will remember this in the future before commenting.
mootmutemoat | 11 hours ago
The incentives are there, just not in the US.
So a great ticket to be able to move to a country that values science.
Also in the article, by the way.
So... not really making the "this is understandable and will be ok" case you think you are.
A professor would make you read the article or at least make you feel bad for not. Mine did. Get that experience from youtube and AI?
EFIW1560 | 8 hours ago
I never said I used AI and I am not sure why people in this sub feel the need to be derisive.
mootmutemoat | 8 hours ago
You edited your comment, so who knows what you said anymore.
HulkSMASHley_23 | 20 hours ago
I’m an autodidact too, and you’re absolutely full of shit. None of this wet dream of Milton Friedman’s has been affordable, both socioeconomically or ethically.
Clevererer | 18 hours ago
And you're advancing society how?
EFIW1560 | 13 hours ago
Well, I'm using my research skills to help my town draft ordinances around data centers so that our residents don't get taken advantage of by developers, and I'm planning a run for town council when a seat opens up next year.
I'm not sure I'm what makes you feel entitled to be so rude to people that you don't even know. But that's a your choice.
EFIW1560 | 13 hours ago
Damn, yeah my comment was hastily made and not very thoughtful, I can take feedback. Yall are not a particularly friendly bunch are you?
heygiraffe | 17 hours ago
> One-third of young scientists who were planning careers in academic research changed their minds in the spring of 2025, according to a new survey, with fewer expecting to remain in higher education and in the U.S. to work or feeling that pursuing a Ph.D. was the right decision.
Okay, so instead of 58,000 new PhDs each year competing for 25,000 tenure-track positions, we only have 39,000 new PhDs. Where's the downside here? I'm not seeing it. How can any informed person think this is a problem?
WashYourCerebellum | 12 hours ago
You do realize PhDs get jobs in several sectors that are not tenure track positions..right? Right?