I was at one of my regular stops two weeks ago for work and overheard a conversation that went like this.
Guy A employee: These gas prices are killing me.
Guy B owner: yeah it's not good but things will turn around before too long
A: oh yeah sure and don't get me wrong Trump's doing great and I will vote for him again next time
B: oh yeah absolutely
A: but I hope it happens soon
Paraphrasing obviously as I was listening in while doing other work but you get the gist of it.
These two guys would 100 percent vote for Trump again if there was an election right now. Zero awareness on term limits or anything but Trump.
I was at the same place yesterday and they are laying people off. The employees don't know it yet but one of the managers told me. They are down 90 percent from February and can't keep all their employees. They are laying off 25 percent of their workforce next week.
In positive news my town went for Trump by 15 points. There were multiple houses completely covered in Trump flags, signs and banners. All of those signs are gone and so are the flags and banners. If it was just one house I would say the person moved but it's all of them. I still see the occasional sticker but I can't remember the last flag I saw. No trucks with Trump flags either and I saw a couple of those a week.
I don’t count signs being down. People take their team flags down after a season ends whether it’s football, baseball, hockey or Trumpism. They will still root for their team when the time comes.
Normally I would agree with you but these houses have had at least one Trump flag, sign or banner out since 2016ish. I can't tell exactly when they came down but most of them were still up last fall and at least another house still had everything up in January.
I went and checked Google Street view just to make sure I was remembering it right and according to the dates these houses did have stuff up in 2020 and 2022.
It appears that the list of people who do genuinely care has gotten shorter over the years, and the interests of the people have become less and less of a priority. Except for where those interests happen to align with a certain class of people.
well yes, because over time they have divorced themselves from the people. The K-shaped economy. The ~~gilded~~Epstein class. Etc. AI will seal the deal of oppression by the top when the lower class is no longer required ($20k robot that never complains vs middle class wage)
John Roberts has been laying the ground work for this is whole life. The current Supreme Court has so corrupted the country that the only ones that get a voice are the richest and they’re allowed to drown out everyone else.
Yeah you can argue when it fully began but it’s been worse every year since 2002 as both parties fight for the worst actors, they’ve abandoned the public and barely even pass any legislation. Session after session is a new low. Of course you can fling shit and say one is worse. Of course. But there is no representation of or concern for the public outside of tax cattle.
One side is definitely worse. People that want to vote Republican or have given up on voting entirely are the only ones that say this “both sides” bs. Like even locally the republicans running are either batshit insane or just horrible greedy people that hate the poor.
Politicians find it easy to care when theyre affected too. For some strange reason they find it hard to get moving when their donations come from the same sources that cause those very problems. So weird amarite
You don't think the US is already pretty much optimized for mass consumption? How much consumption do people need? It's pretty much insatiable at this point.
Median American has the most disposable income in the world pretty much. People consume more housing, calories, entertainment, travel, healthcare, technology, etc, than ever in the history of the world. People are just never satisfied, they always think they need more because they compare themselves to others.
I agree with you. Globalization and mass immigration into USA has served as a force towards equilibrium, and Americans are experiencing the effect of their historical outsized purchasing power being normalized closer to the ever-changing global median purchasing power.
The primary issue is Americans lack context in how relatively spoiled their expectations are when viewed in a historical or modern global lens.
The only reason why Trump got elected was inflation was insane during Biden's run. And Team Red kept beating him over it non-stop. I remember the 9% figure thrown around by republicans all the time.
Now the same issues hangs over Trump.
We need a third party. One not beholden to money from cooperation cause the current two-party system has been corrupted by greed and money.
We will vote for Team Blue and the same problems will persist. The cycle will repeat until everything collapses because we never learn from all the stupid mistakes.
I'm not exclusively talking about the USA, I'm Canadian. It's the same thing here, we vote one party- they fuck everything up, next time we vote the other and get fucked again.
There is no resolution, all of these politicians are corrupt and simply cannot lead. Not sure how this makes me a liar from simply observing something? Lol.
You're not wrong and you shouldn't be getting down voted for saying this. They are all corrupt and fail to live up to their promises. The two party system is doesn't work.
The GOP has not had a veto-proof majority at any point in the 21st century.
The Democrats passed the ACA using reconciliation to bypass the filibuster.
The GOP attempted to repeal it using the same process, but it was killed by Senator McCain. Trump responded by purging the GOP of all establishment (think Bush / Cheney / McCain) Republicans, and now we have the mess that we have today. Trump had other priorities in his second term, so used the reconciliation bullet for the big beautiful bill.
The ACA is a bad bill. It's corporate welfare to one of America's most lucrative industries. Jon Stewart, a staunch Democrat, has spoken out about it several times. I suggest you give him a listen.
Objectively "both sides" are not the same and you sound like an ignorant troll or just ignorant. Democrats would have prevented alot of the harm we have seen come to people who work for a living the past year.
It was Republicans who pushed DOGE that cut hundreds of thousands of working class jobs in Federal government and supporting contractors. Not Democrats. Democrats expanded government jobs and supporting contractor jobs over the years, opening up doors to the middle class for hundreds of thousands of working people. Republicans own that harm and the resulting increases in unemployment from the federal cuts and resulting decline in consumer spending in areas. Harris wasnt cutting these jobs.
The BBB cuts funding to healthcare and education. Millions of people are losing access to healthcare as a result of this. Republicans are to blame for this. Harris wouldn't have done this.
Republicans are the ones pushing the stupid poorly planned tarrifs that have caused price increases and job losses. Harris wasnt going to do this.
Republicans are the ones who have started this war with Iran. Harris wasnt doing this to cause price increases of gas and other issues
It is Republicans who repealed Roe vs Wade, stripping away abortion rights for millions. Not Democrats.
It is Republicans who are taking away rights from LGTBQ people. Harris wouldn't have done this.
It is Republicans who killed student loan forgiveness who killed affordable income based repayment plans like SAVE pushed by Biden, which has led to many people owing thousands more per year and straining individual budgets. Harris wasnt doing this.
Both parties are "not the same" We are in a better shape and all these people helped if Harris got elected.
If you can't look at the voting records and actions and see the difference and instead do the both sides crap you don't deserve an intelligent response.
Voting records don't mean shit when the end result is more of the same but go off. You obviously are very reddit brained. We'll just agree not to engage with each other further. You're a lost cause just like thinking voting will fix any of this.
Objectively "both sides" are not the same and you sound either like an ignorant troll or just ignorant. Democrats would have prevented alot of the harm we have seen come to people who work for a living the past year.
It was Republicans who pushed DOGE that cut hundreds of thousands of working class jobs in Federal government and supporting contractors. Not Democrats. Democrats expanded government jobs and supporting contractor jobs over the years, opening up doors to the middle class for hundreds of thousands of working people. Republicans own that harm and the resulting increases in unemployment from the federal cuts and resulting decline in consumer spending in areas. Harris wasnt cutting these jobs.
The BBB cuts funding to healthcare and education. Millions of people are losing access to healthcare as a result of this. Republicans are to blame for this. Harris wouldn't have done this.
Republicans are the ones pushing the stupid poorly planned tarrifs that have caused price increases and job losses. Harris wasnt going to do this.
Republicans are the ones who have started this war with Iran. Harris wasnt doing this to cause price increases of gas and other issues
It is Republicans who repealed Roe vs Wade, stripping away abortion rights for millions. Not Democrats.
It is Republicans who are taking away rights from LGTBQ people. Harris wouldn't have done this.
It is Republicans who killed student loan forgiveness who killed affordable income based repayment plans like SAVE pushed by Biden, which has led to many people owing thousands more per year and straining individual budgets. Harris wasnt doing this.
Both parties are "not the same" We are in a better shape and all these people helped if Harris got elected.
Yes they are both the same. Two sides of the same coin. We are too entrenched in our camps to see that they are both the same.
Their kids hangout together and go to the same school. They shake hands behind close doors, making deals. They just bring up cultural issues--LGBT, Race, Immigration, Wars, etc--to keeps us--the plebians--from uniting against them.
What happened to occupy Wallstreet or the tea party movement or even Bernie run against Clinton? Every time something has a chance of really upending the system, they co-opt it and crush it. They've been doing it since JFK.
Yeah it’s almost like there’s zero nuance or critical thinking skills when people say “inflation was so high under Biden”, and ignore the fact that inflation was high for the entire world because of a global pandemic. The recovery from said global inflation by the Biden administration was the best amongst its peers.
Comparatively you have Trump causing inflation through his own policies and actions like pointless blanket tariffs and starting an even more pointless war.
The republicans work way harder as a minority party than the dems ever do. Neolibs arent far off from republicans. Id still vote for one over a republican but all they ever do is write stern letters that never matter. Republicans rally their base and use theor offices far more effectively than dems to consolidate power and achieve goals
He kept Trump's tax cuts and even kept his tariffs. He also allowed the Fed to keep printing money.
How long will people realize these guys are all the same? They will play to your emotions to keep you in their camp. In the end they will never do things to genuinely fix the system
No, he didn't keep Trump's tax cuts on the rich. He also pushed for HEAVY additional taxation on corporations and the rich in his Build Back Better Bill, for example.
> He also allowed the Fed to keep printing money.
Yeah, and it's a good thing he did, our recovery from COVID was absolutely spectacular. The landing we had was truly unlike anything seen before. You look at post-Covid GDP growth amongst the G7 and the US is doing laps around the rest of 'em
Anyway, the idea that keeping minor tariffs and "printing money" means their economic policies are indistinguishable is absurd.
Wage growth was already outpacing inflation growth by 2023. I'd rather deal with ~2 years of inflation to prevent the economy from cratering. Countries like Germany are still seeing their economy shrink
Objectively "both sides" are not the same and you sound either like an ignorant troll or just ignorant. Democrats would have prevented alot of the harm we have seen come to people who work for a living the past year when it comes to economic issues and other issues.
It was Republicans who pushed DOGE that cut hundreds of thousands of working class jobs in Federal government and supporting contractors. Not Democrats. Democrats expanded government jobs and supporting contractor jobs over the years, opening up doors to the middle class for hundreds of thousands of working people. Republicans own that harm and the resulting increases in unemployment from the federal cuts and resulting decline in consumer spending in areas. Harris wasnt cutting these jobs.
The BBB cuts funding to healthcare and education. Millions of people are losing access to healthcare as a result of this. Republicans are to blame for this. Harris wouldn't have done this.
Republicans are the ones pushing the stupid poorly planned tarrifs that have caused price increases and job losses. Harris wasnt going to do this.
Republicans are the ones who have started this war with Iran. Harris wasnt doing this to cause price increases of gas and other issues
It is Republicans who repealed Roe vs Wade, stripping away abortion rights for millions. Not Democrats.
It is Republicans who are taking away rights from LGTBQ people. Harris wouldn't have done this.
It is Republicans who killed student loan forgiveness who killed affordable income based repayment plans like SAVE pushed by Biden, which has led to many people owing thousands more per year and straining individual budgets. Harris wasnt doing this.
Both parties are "not the same" We are in a better shape and all these people helped if Harris got elected.
Our lives are better when (actual) Democrats are in charge. They’re often a lot worse when any Republican is.
If you don’t bother to vote because you think “it doesn’t matter, they’re all crooks” you’re as responsible for bad government as the fools who voted for it, out of bigotry and intolerance.
I would be able to afford the cost of living in my area on a minimum wage salary. It's tight, but doable. That includes a 2 BR apartment (ironically not any more expensive than a one-bedroom), a car, high speed internet, and an unlimited data smartphone plan.
This is in an area that people normally call HCOL.
Considering only 10% of the people in my state make minimum wage, the other 90% of people have spending problems.
The truth is no, politicians or those in power are not "supposed" to do anything, in fact they should be expected by default to act in their own interest. The problem is people have this false expectation that in modern developed countries, governments are for the people, having taken for granted what was the case only because people in the past ensured it by actually being skeptical of their representative's interests. Today the priority of voters is actually swapped where the ethical or moral quality of representatives take a back seat to their proclaimed policies, which is the exact opposite of how voters should prioritize who they support. This has lead to government run by pandering, lying demagogues, and there shouldn't be any surprise at this or expectation that they will act in the interest of the people.
I don't know but maybe, just maybe people should stop electing out-of-touch billionaries who act like the word groceries is a new thing, who refer to gas price increase as peanuts, and who called a past statement in which they said they don't cate about the cost of living "a perfect statement"?
I think it's more that we need to undo the system where politicians can and do accept bribes to up their net worth millions of dollars within one or two years. And also end insider trading.
Politicians are paid to vote against the interests of the people that they represent, and any values that they may have once held.
There are a few democrats who haven't become rich while legislating but only a handful. And that handful is attacked the most.
‘See how all the native plants harmonize and grow with each other? Never letting one big plant come along and grow too big to block the life giving sun? Nature is amazing.’
There have been measures on societies, individualistic versus collectivist. The US is an outlier to the extreme on individualism, and it works to the benefit of those in power.
Theories say that as the gini coefficient moves towards 1, social and political unrest increase. We used to have a healthier distribution of wealth. Now it has started the final-stage aggregation towards the single person holding all the wealth.
Those theories are idiotic. No one has ever decided to risk their life and livelihood just because someone else is doing better than them, people do so when they are destitute. And as long as the poorest Americans remain the fattest, that isn't happening.
I mean, the US people voted for this. Everyone says economics is the most important issue for voters, and yet they chose this guy for a second time. People voted to get robbed. You can protest and riot, but that only gives the regime credibility in repressing the people. Voting is the only way.
I mean, from an outsider standpoint USA people seem very "anesthetized" and without defense against the overpowering control rich americans are imposing on them. The fact the culture there is over individualistic doesn't help because there is not even the will to unite against a common enemy
It feels like we will sooner see the reintroduction of slavery as a way to pay back debt than any kind of social uprising against the status quo
Unfortunately, whenever someone does try to organize around the overpowering control of the glitteratti, some sort of ultimately peripheral issue converts the class war into an identity politics dispute that turns into a circular firing squad.
> [...] political violence coming to the United States
There have been two armed gunmen who have stormed the location of the President just nine days apart. On some level, we are already there. But, I think I get your point. It's likely going to get worse.
I feel like the doomer politics sub and the r/salary sub should come together. One sub is saying how terrible everything is and the other sub posts high six figure salaries all day and say how great their lives are.
The k shaped economy is real. Depending on your bubble everything is truly horrible, or your trip to Japan just got more expensive (but you’re still gonna go, obviously).
I don’t think people have come to terms with the headline. So let me bold it.
No one cares.
This isn’t a voter issue. This is a systemic issue. The government is captured. The oligarchs and corporations run the show now. They aren’t going to stop. An election isn’t going to fix this.
The reality is that only violent upheaval and the seizure of the means of production is going to get the working class any leverage. Why do you think they are pushing so hard for AI? They know. They KNOW that once they rob the working class of the means of production permanently that there will be no going back.
I’m in disbelief at how many people still seem to think that elections, the law, the government, Congress, etc, are coming to save us. They are part of the issue, not the solution.
Voters would rather vote for X party than vote for candidates that actually cares.
I live in a red state, and there mind set is, "I may not be able to afford the Insulin I need. But at least I didn't vote for a Democrat." My own mother made that comment before I cut them off.
Which this isn't an attack on just. Republicans. I don't like to do same thing both sides, as this administration is the most corrupt in oir nation history, but it includes Democrats who take PAC money who serve corpo donors over there constituents.
Reform needs to start on a local level to show change is possible.
Until we do what we should have to confederate states during reconstruction, we won’t get out. Republican Party needs to be outlawed. Rank choice voting, term limits, non partisan district drawing, no corporate donations, and we don’t need senate, just the house. Don’t need 2 senators in south dakata, north dakatoa, Wyoming etc having more senators than citizens of New York. One thing framers got wrong was they thought each state would act as a singular party and that there wouldn’t be strong national factions and here we are
All you rank choice voting advocates have no idea. Right now in CA we could wind up with two Republicans as the top vote getters in the PRIMARY because there are 61! candidates on the ballot. Most of those are democrats. Who knows how many of the others are financed by Republicans. The irony is that we might have a Republican governor in a state that voted to redistrict to reduce the number of Republican districts.
Trump is the best r/anticonsumption president we’ve had in a long time, quite the paradox! If there is any silver lining, we’re hopefully going to have people that begin to value things like mending clothes rather than waste them, turn cheap meals into good ones, spend time at the library instead of with 20 streaming services.
What are people’s expectations that have risen exponentially?
Edit added 43 minutes later: 76% of the population, and you assholes pretend like it’s the individual and not the fucked yo economy. Don’t bother responding to me. I don’t give a fuck what you have to say. I will block you with relish
Edit again: an hour and a half later. Hey economists: I don’t care. You have extracted humanity from a conversation where 76% of people say they cannot afford to live.
I cannot state enough; how I absolutely do not care to hear your excuses
I think people don’t realize that starter homes back when “a single income could support a family” were <1000sqft. Luxury car ownership as a percentage of total goes up almost every year. People vacation far, far, far more than ever before. And not the motel/days inn or camper. But “luxury” vacation.
We also eat out more than prior generations, especially lunch.
Make no mistake, education, healthcare, housing and other staples have seen remarkable inflation. But we’re also not helping ourselves with the expectations we increasingly have.
>Make no mistake, education, healthcare, housing and other staples have seen remarkable inflation.
When adjusted for price per square foot, housing in aggregate has not risen more than inflation.
Of course, housing markets are highly localized, so you get some areas like San Diego that exploded since 2016, and some areas like Detroit which have not.
Healthcare, OTOH... we're living through what everyone said would happen when the ACA was signed that mandated a corporate middle-man in the healthcare payment process and then tied having that privilege to working full-time. But anytime someone brings up healthcare reform, establishment Democrats fear-monger everyone into thinking they'd be without healthcare.
It shouldn't surprise the reader that healthcare conglomerates are among the largest donors to the DNC.
No one talks about house safety improvements (a new build today costs $XXX!") or trim level either.
Just like cars. First, it's closer than you'd expect AND financing options were worse: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/average-car-cost-were-born-130001087.html
Second, a car being $22,000 is great. But it also didn't have airbags, any electronics, and an expected life of <120,000 miles.
I'm sure there is some truth to this, but many of these expenses are not optional. Then there is also probably some YOLO as people's perspective on money has shifted. When all of your expenses have doubled or worse, whe each emergency costs thousands instead of hundreds, what's an extra couple hundreds bucks per month for a more expensive car? What's an extra thousand spent on vacation or another thing that makes you happy?
I've tried for years to be responsible in my spending. I drive a used, 17 years old, but well maintained car. I like primitive camping so my vacations are very cheap. Cooking is my passion so I very rarely eat out. My rent is reasonably cheap for the location as I lived here for years. I maintain my own cars, cook my own food l, buy my own groceries and overall spend way less than most other people who have to pay for those services.
All this to say is that I've experienced almost no lifestyle creep. I've also received decent raises and promotions over the years. Yet all of my basic expenses have increased so significantly, that I frequently just end up buying things I would probably think twice in the past because why not?
When my apartment used to cost $1000 per month, my car insurance was $50, for $100-150 I could buy a cart full of groceries, my dogs vet visits were in hundreds instead of thousands, spending couple hundred on things I wanted but didn't need seemed like a luxury. For comparison, I recently spent $350 on headphones and it didn't even register, because that was just a little more than my weekly cart of groceries.
I'm even considering getting a electric new car, because at this point I spend so much on gas each month, that even a car payment wouldn't be much more (and I hate car payments).
So yeah, people are spreading like there is no tomorrow, because no one knows what tomorrow will bring anymore.
What is the expectation? Also what are the “cheap” options that are less? You’re coming off as disconnected if you think the problems don’t stem from a society that has priced out the average person.
How much does a used car go for today? What’s the average insurance? How much has the price of housing increased in the last two decades/
You do the work of the rich when you word your argument so.
73% of households have an auto loan payment and they average about $500 / mo. The cheapest vehicles on the market today MSRP for $20,000 (which would be a $280 / mo payment with 20% down), so this indicates that people are electing to buy cars in the $35-50k price range.
I can find dozens of used cars in great conditions at the $8-$10k price point. That's 3 months of minimum wage salary. Or, if you put $2,000 down, it's $100-150/mo, which is 4-6% of a minimum wage income.
The average square footage for a home has risen from 1500 sq ft to 2200 sq ft. Almost everyone has central AC when it wasn't a thing 20+ years ago. Amazingly, electricity costs money and many utilities use tiered pricing where your usage gets significantly more expensive as you consume more electricity.
I can find over a dozen properties for sale under the $300k price point in my area. They sit on the market forever because they are too small or in a "bad neighborhood" (in quotations because that's a euphemism in the northeast for too many minorities).
Honest question since I haven’t lived there in a long time. Where in the northeast can you buy a house for $300k close to job opportunities? Looking at Waltham, MA, which used to be considered an affordable part of the Boston area, the cheapest option is 700 for a 1400 square foot home and quickly gets over 1 mil. Are you talking rural upstate NY or something?
It’s two-fold. People have lifted expectations for a more comfortable lifestyle than most humans have lived before and to do it fairly affordably. And maybe that isn’t unfair to ask with advancements in technology and productivity, but it’s only doubling the pain.
Luxury cars are the perfect example. People chase status and luxury even if economic options are cheaper to own, insure, and maintain.
Starter homes went from an average of like 800sqft to 1400sqft. Shit got expensive, but so did people’s tastes and expectations.
You didn’t answer any of my questions. Nor did you say anything different than you did the first time. Who made things so expensive? Who got rid of all of the cheaper options?
If you don’t say the rich, then you aren’t coming from a realistic place.
You have an axe to grind, but people are the way they are. Trucks got bigger, cars became SUVs, SUVs became mega SUVs. That’s not some Bezos or Zuckerberg plot. That’s just people wanting more.
Actually it’s because our dumbass vehicle emissions laws are proportional to the scale of the vehicle.
So instead of making engines more sustainable/efficient, it’s much easier to just make everything larger. It’s a severe abuse of the original scope of the SUV platform.
^(Caveat: vehicles also got larger because of crumple zones, which is good. Ideally, you’d have large crumple zones to protect drivers and a low hood to protect pedestrians.)
The “oligarch plot” part is also still relevant, since Oil and Automobile lobbies have spent decades shaping US society towards total car dependency. For most households, a car is not a luxury but instead a necessity.
That said, I agree that all luxury markets are vain and inane, including cars, and plenty of poor suckers get roped by usurers into big leases so they can enjoy a short-term display of status. But again it’s hard to see these irresponsible individual choices as independent of larger systems. i.e. Marketers and advertisers constantly create this demand for social status by bullying people into thinking they aren’t enough; the gatekeeping of entrepreneurship behind access to startup capital cuts out what would be a more productive source of intrinsic self-worth. People with few options turn to unhealthy options, see also: gambling.
The fact that people spend more on average for things like vehicles or homes does not mean that there aren't lower cost solutions available in most markets.
Where there aren't lower cost solutions, it is usually due to government regulations. Zoning preventing development of housing, for example.
I am a millennial and my wife is borderline Gen Z. Expectations are higher in many ways, we have friends who refuse to buy the 3 bed 2 bath because they need an office and two bedrooms for kids. That’s the growth second home for a family 30 years ago.
Luxury car ownership is highest among millennials and Gen Z among any previous cohort at their stage of life. More kids buying luxury SUVs than economic sedans.
People are much more pessimistic about the economy but are spending more and feeling poorer. It’s the dual-threat problem.
shoes don't cost what they did 60 years ago and they don't last as long. just being a viable employee costs hundreds more and years of study now. you are ignorant and stuck in the past blaming the victims of a system you lucked into
I make good money and every two weeks my family has to wonder if we'll get our bills paid. We're one small disaster away from dire straights all the time. Buying groceries, utilities, fuel, medical care (with insurance), and putting clothes on our backs are drowning us. My job could give me ten dollars an hour more but it wouldn't change a thing cause everything is so damn expensive.
I don't wanna hear Americans complain about the cost of living after they elected an insane man who campaigned on a whole list of economy-crashing policies and a history of warmongering.
The United States is basically the prototype for mass consumption by any means necessary. It is the core biological DNA of the USA. It was only a matter of time before it became the dominant genetic trait. Colonization of an “empty” land, genocide of indigenous people, slavery, racism, multiple coup d’etats, avoidable wars, black sites, Guantanamo Bay, economic imperialism, 51st state colonialism, flood the zone authoritarianism and techno-feudalism. The USA has never been what’s its marketing department through abundant consumption presented itself to be.
Isn’t this the expected result of capitalism? Every business is trying its hardest to separate people from as much of their money as possible. That’s an insane amount of cost pressure, especially when so much technology and data is available to these corporations.
I don't think reducing all of capitalism to one monolithic idea like this is productive or helpful. Do capitalist governments have congressional or parliamentary systems? Is the majority of the economy private or public? Is there a large degree of social services or not? Does the justice system represent most everyone well or are there special classes that are privileged?
The answers to all these questions are yes, it depends which capitalist country you care to examine. Capitalism isn't one model or one idea, it's dozens of them all existing simultaneously.
So is this the expected results of American capitalism? Sure, probably. Is this the expected result of "capitalism" writ large? I don't think you can distill capitalism into one idea like that; the Scandinavian countries are highly capitalist for example while having a dramatically different and even contradictory idea of what capitalism is or should be to the USA for example.
Why should this surprise anyone? Go to any money/finance forum and it quickly devolves into those with <3% mortgages patting themselves on the back and humble bragging how its the key to their economic prosperity while others are just locked out of housing and stuck being exposed to rapidly rising rents while wages stagnate.
This is the society that capitalism breeds. We monetized every aspect of our lives and put a profit motive on existence. Yes, nobody cares because capitalism is alienating.
I mean, read about the candidate you’re voting for? Average Americans are so uninformed it’s embarrassing. Concrete thinkers need their Snap and Medicaid turned off I suppose…enjoy 2027, you knuckleheads.
All these comments are yet another example of how out of touch Americans are with the rest of the world. If Americans had to live as frugally as most Europeans do their heads would explode let alone how the developing world lives. These woah of me, I have it so much worse than anyone else comments are nauseating
All the simpletons in the comments focusing on who is president when you should instead be thinking about your representatives in Congress and more at the state and local level. Is the president responsible for your local zoning laws and limiting building permits? The person who’s president doesn’t make every decision in society
The younger generation needs to get involved more in politics by running for office instead of just voting or even worst just bitching about it online.
Can’t get a job? Why not run for city office? I heard politicians have a pretty sweet gig.
You’re telling me the best LA has the offer for mayor is Karen Bass or Spencer Pratt??? We need more A.O.C in politics.
I know this is an economics sub, but it's not just the money. There is an aura of despair everywhere I go, a general malaise. Day by day nothing gets better, in fact it is getting worse. Housing is unaffordable, the general populace is one health emergency away from bankruptcy, social security is set to be insolvent, and our government representatives are openly, brazenly corrupted. Now fair elections are a thing of the past with partisan gerrymandering allowing candidates to select their voters and the death of the voting rights act. Our courts are captured and every bit as partisan as our corrupt representatives. Our president can commit crimes with impunity knowing that he can never be prosecuted while his conspirators are rewarded with millions and pardons. Combine all of this with inflation, tariffs that meddle with free markets, and the gutting of the SEC that has made insider tragic ubiquitous. Then there is the gun violence and school shootings that get more prevalent by the day because we refuse to fix the problem. The power of the NRA expemplies the corruption that permeates Washington. There is the "AI boom" used as an excuse for mass layoffs, whether true or not, and it will either dramatically raise the unemployment rate or leave mainstream holding the bag. The requirements are being changed for entry into the SP so billionaires like Elon Musk can get even richer by forcing every pension function, endowment, and individual to buy his unprofitable, shitty companies via mutual funds in their IRA'S. The federal and state tax burden continues to shift towards the lower and middle class through regressive policies while borrowing from the future of the young, all so the wealthy of today can have a second yacht. It's no wonder Americans are quickly adopting a YOLO mentality and giving up on the future. I just don't know how we get out of this mess or what comes next. It feels like we should be long past the torches and pitchforks phase, but there has been no trigger for this to happen. Just a slow downward spiral of misery. I am ready to give up. I want it to end.
I'm not sure this is true. First past the post voting, unlimited sums of money in elections, gerrymandering, and the electoral college has significantly limited the influence of voters. If you live in a deep blue or deep red state your vote doesn't matter outside of primary elections, and even then who shows up on the ballot is usually predetermined by the DNC and RNC. Only about a third of eligible voters actually vote because their vote literally doesn't matter.
/run local f=C_QuestLog.IsQuestFlaggedCompleted for k,i in pairs({FM=89183,BH=89184,DF=89177,MC=89180,SK=89178,CR=89179,RF=80416,VD=89181})do print(k..":",({"Missing","Collected"})[f(i)and 2 or 1])end
Engineering
/way #2393 51.2 57.1 What To Do When Nothing Works Silvermoon City X
/way #2393 51.4 74.6 One Engineer's Junk Silvermoon City X
/way #2395 39.5 45.8 Manual of Mistakes and Mishaps Eversong X
/way #2536 65.1 34.5 Offline Helper Bot Zul'Aman X
I hate that I know exactly what I'm looking at, but I choose to believe this post is the equivalent of a numbers station broadcast during the Cold War.
supercyberlurker | 4 hours ago
Your politicians are supposed to care for the voters needs.
If your government is being run by people who don't care, then maybe the wrong people got elected.
Maybe we should get rid of them and vote in people who do care.
Curious_Party_4683 | 3 hours ago
Propaganda works. You got people who will gladly vote for the Dump again in 2028. My own sister thinks he's a god. Good luck everyone.
British_Rover | 2 hours ago
Yup.
I was at one of my regular stops two weeks ago for work and overheard a conversation that went like this.
Guy A employee: These gas prices are killing me.
Guy B owner: yeah it's not good but things will turn around before too long
A: oh yeah sure and don't get me wrong Trump's doing great and I will vote for him again next time
B: oh yeah absolutely
A: but I hope it happens soon
Paraphrasing obviously as I was listening in while doing other work but you get the gist of it.
These two guys would 100 percent vote for Trump again if there was an election right now. Zero awareness on term limits or anything but Trump.
I was at the same place yesterday and they are laying people off. The employees don't know it yet but one of the managers told me. They are down 90 percent from February and can't keep all their employees. They are laying off 25 percent of their workforce next week.
In positive news my town went for Trump by 15 points. There were multiple houses completely covered in Trump flags, signs and banners. All of those signs are gone and so are the flags and banners. If it was just one house I would say the person moved but it's all of them. I still see the occasional sticker but I can't remember the last flag I saw. No trucks with Trump flags either and I saw a couple of those a week.
TheGreat_Powerful_Oz | an hour ago
I don’t count signs being down. People take their team flags down after a season ends whether it’s football, baseball, hockey or Trumpism. They will still root for their team when the time comes.
British_Rover | 48 minutes ago
Normally I would agree with you but these houses have had at least one Trump flag, sign or banner out since 2016ish. I can't tell exactly when they came down but most of them were still up last fall and at least another house still had everything up in January.
I went and checked Google Street view just to make sure I was remembering it right and according to the dates these houses did have stuff up in 2020 and 2022.
kylogram | an hour ago
Ask them "turn around for who?" next time. Ask them what they mean by "turn around"
Independent-Exit7434 | 4 hours ago
It appears that the list of people who do genuinely care has gotten shorter over the years, and the interests of the people have become less and less of a priority. Except for where those interests happen to align with a certain class of people.
the_ai_wizard | 2 hours ago
well yes, because over time they have divorced themselves from the people. The K-shaped economy. The ~~gilded~~Epstein class. Etc. AI will seal the deal of oppression by the top when the lower class is no longer required ($20k robot that never complains vs middle class wage)
Trick-Stranger4596 | an hour ago
John Roberts has been laying the ground work for this is whole life. The current Supreme Court has so corrupted the country that the only ones that get a voice are the richest and they’re allowed to drown out everyone else.
EdLesliesBarber | 2 hours ago
Yeah you can argue when it fully began but it’s been worse every year since 2002 as both parties fight for the worst actors, they’ve abandoned the public and barely even pass any legislation. Session after session is a new low. Of course you can fling shit and say one is worse. Of course. But there is no representation of or concern for the public outside of tax cattle.
TheGreat_Powerful_Oz | an hour ago
One side is definitely worse. People that want to vote Republican or have given up on voting entirely are the only ones that say this “both sides” bs. Like even locally the republicans running are either batshit insane or just horrible greedy people that hate the poor.
djerk | 32 minutes ago
Yeah that’s the problem is we’ve been forced to choose between abusers (Republicans) and enablers (Democrats) for decades.
Republicans want cruelty, Democrats don’t wanna make waves.
We need to vote for leaders that WILL end the cycle of abuse.
GeneralEi | 3 hours ago
Politicians find it easy to care when theyre affected too. For some strange reason they find it hard to get moving when their donations come from the same sources that cause those very problems. So weird amarite
Zarokima | 3 hours ago
Republicans love voting against their own best interests to own the libs.
Cheap-Discussion-186 | an hour ago
Maybe a billionaire as president isn't actually all that intelligent of a way to go
Sea-Respect2773 | 25 minutes ago
Considering that hasn’t happened since like the 1800s, good luck with that
HashRunner | 7 minutes ago
American voters are some of the laziest and most ignorant voters in history.
Constantly voting against their own interests, then complaining about how nothing changed.
WindHero | 3 hours ago
You don't think the US is already pretty much optimized for mass consumption? How much consumption do people need? It's pretty much insatiable at this point.
khearan | 3 hours ago
Please expand on this. This article is discussing cost of living. You're including basic needs and goods as mass consumption?
WindHero | 3 hours ago
Median American has the most disposable income in the world pretty much. People consume more housing, calories, entertainment, travel, healthcare, technology, etc, than ever in the history of the world. People are just never satisfied, they always think they need more because they compare themselves to others.
fuckinkangaroos | 26 minutes ago
I agree with you. Globalization and mass immigration into USA has served as a force towards equilibrium, and Americans are experiencing the effect of their historical outsized purchasing power being normalized closer to the ever-changing global median purchasing power.
The primary issue is Americans lack context in how relatively spoiled their expectations are when viewed in a historical or modern global lens.
Easy-Marsupial3268 | 2 hours ago
But the government - regardless of who wins - is owned by the capitalist class. How can we call it a democracy if it only serves one class?
HR_Paul | 2 hours ago
>Your politicians are supposed to care for the voters needs.
FYI, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny aren't real.
Meanie_Cream_Cake | 4 hours ago
They are all the same.
The only reason why Trump got elected was inflation was insane during Biden's run. And Team Red kept beating him over it non-stop. I remember the 9% figure thrown around by republicans all the time.
Now the same issues hangs over Trump.
We need a third party. One not beholden to money from cooperation cause the current two-party system has been corrupted by greed and money.
We will vote for Team Blue and the same problems will persist. The cycle will repeat until everything collapses because we never learn from all the stupid mistakes.
Money printing.
evident_lee | 4 hours ago
Hur dur. Both sides the same
Osaki_xo | 3 hours ago
Why do you think it's stupid to say that? they are both corrupt and driven by self interests.
I'm not sure what the resolution is, but doing this over and over is not working.
cmack | 3 hours ago
Liar.
Fact - The Republicans have been in power the entire twenty-first century minus 62 days which yeilded Obama Care or the ACA.
Perhaps the republican propaganda of blaming democratic party for the republicans action could stop and we actual vote for democrats.
Osaki_xo | 3 hours ago
I'm not exclusively talking about the USA, I'm Canadian. It's the same thing here, we vote one party- they fuck everything up, next time we vote the other and get fucked again.
There is no resolution, all of these politicians are corrupt and simply cannot lead. Not sure how this makes me a liar from simply observing something? Lol.
PerfumedPassion | 16 minutes ago
You're not wrong and you shouldn't be getting down voted for saying this. They are all corrupt and fail to live up to their promises. The two party system is doesn't work.
happy_snowy_owl | 2 hours ago
The GOP has not had a veto-proof majority at any point in the 21st century.
The Democrats passed the ACA using reconciliation to bypass the filibuster.
The GOP attempted to repeal it using the same process, but it was killed by Senator McCain. Trump responded by purging the GOP of all establishment (think Bush / Cheney / McCain) Republicans, and now we have the mess that we have today. Trump had other priorities in his second term, so used the reconciliation bullet for the big beautiful bill.
The ACA is a bad bill. It's corporate welfare to one of America's most lucrative industries. Jon Stewart, a staunch Democrat, has spoken out about it several times. I suggest you give him a listen.
TheNatural14063 | 2 hours ago
Objectively "both sides" are not the same and you sound like an ignorant troll or just ignorant. Democrats would have prevented alot of the harm we have seen come to people who work for a living the past year.
It was Republicans who pushed DOGE that cut hundreds of thousands of working class jobs in Federal government and supporting contractors. Not Democrats. Democrats expanded government jobs and supporting contractor jobs over the years, opening up doors to the middle class for hundreds of thousands of working people. Republicans own that harm and the resulting increases in unemployment from the federal cuts and resulting decline in consumer spending in areas. Harris wasnt cutting these jobs.
The BBB cuts funding to healthcare and education. Millions of people are losing access to healthcare as a result of this. Republicans are to blame for this. Harris wouldn't have done this.
Republicans are the ones pushing the stupid poorly planned tarrifs that have caused price increases and job losses. Harris wasnt going to do this.
Republicans are the ones who have started this war with Iran. Harris wasnt doing this to cause price increases of gas and other issues
It is Republicans who repealed Roe vs Wade, stripping away abortion rights for millions. Not Democrats.
It is Republicans who are taking away rights from LGTBQ people. Harris wouldn't have done this.
It is Republicans who killed student loan forgiveness who killed affordable income based repayment plans like SAVE pushed by Biden, which has led to many people owing thousands more per year and straining individual budgets. Harris wasnt doing this.
Both parties are "not the same" We are in a better shape and all these people helped if Harris got elected.
Prophetic_Reaver | 3 hours ago
Such a smart comeback that tries to bypass a very real problem. Very slow of you.
evident_lee | 3 hours ago
If you can't look at the voting records and actions and see the difference and instead do the both sides crap you don't deserve an intelligent response.
Prophetic_Reaver | 3 hours ago
Voting records don't mean shit when the end result is more of the same but go off. You obviously are very reddit brained. We'll just agree not to engage with each other further. You're a lost cause just like thinking voting will fix any of this.
TheNatural14063 | 2 hours ago
Objectively "both sides" are not the same and you sound either like an ignorant troll or just ignorant. Democrats would have prevented alot of the harm we have seen come to people who work for a living the past year.
It was Republicans who pushed DOGE that cut hundreds of thousands of working class jobs in Federal government and supporting contractors. Not Democrats. Democrats expanded government jobs and supporting contractor jobs over the years, opening up doors to the middle class for hundreds of thousands of working people. Republicans own that harm and the resulting increases in unemployment from the federal cuts and resulting decline in consumer spending in areas. Harris wasnt cutting these jobs.
The BBB cuts funding to healthcare and education. Millions of people are losing access to healthcare as a result of this. Republicans are to blame for this. Harris wouldn't have done this.
Republicans are the ones pushing the stupid poorly planned tarrifs that have caused price increases and job losses. Harris wasnt going to do this.
Republicans are the ones who have started this war with Iran. Harris wasnt doing this to cause price increases of gas and other issues
It is Republicans who repealed Roe vs Wade, stripping away abortion rights for millions. Not Democrats.
It is Republicans who are taking away rights from LGTBQ people. Harris wouldn't have done this.
It is Republicans who killed student loan forgiveness who killed affordable income based repayment plans like SAVE pushed by Biden, which has led to many people owing thousands more per year and straining individual budgets. Harris wasnt doing this.
Both parties are "not the same" We are in a better shape and all these people helped if Harris got elected.
Meanie_Cream_Cake | 4 hours ago
Yes they are both the same. Two sides of the same coin. We are too entrenched in our camps to see that they are both the same.
Their kids hangout together and go to the same school. They shake hands behind close doors, making deals. They just bring up cultural issues--LGBT, Race, Immigration, Wars, etc--to keeps us--the plebians--from uniting against them.
What happened to occupy Wallstreet or the tea party movement or even Bernie run against Clinton? Every time something has a chance of really upending the system, they co-opt it and crush it. They've been doing it since JFK.
Trump was a democrat before.
BidenGlazer | 3 hours ago
Please tell me how Biden's economic policy is even remotely similar to Trump's
Lost-Elephant-6628 | 3 hours ago
Yeah it’s almost like there’s zero nuance or critical thinking skills when people say “inflation was so high under Biden”, and ignore the fact that inflation was high for the entire world because of a global pandemic. The recovery from said global inflation by the Biden administration was the best amongst its peers.
Comparatively you have Trump causing inflation through his own policies and actions like pointless blanket tariffs and starting an even more pointless war.
Kromgar | 3 hours ago
The republicans work way harder as a minority party than the dems ever do. Neolibs arent far off from republicans. Id still vote for one over a republican but all they ever do is write stern letters that never matter. Republicans rally their base and use theor offices far more effectively than dems to consolidate power and achieve goals
Independent-Exit7434 | 3 hours ago
Your name is literally Bidenglazer. Let’s get trumpglazer in here and you two can work it out 🤣.
In seriousness, one of these two has an economic policy. The other… does some things that could be called policy?
Meanie_Cream_Cake | 3 hours ago
He kept Trump's tax cuts and even kept his tariffs. He also allowed the Fed to keep printing money.
How long will people realize these guys are all the same? They will play to your emotions to keep you in their camp. In the end they will never do things to genuinely fix the system
BidenGlazer | 3 hours ago
No, he didn't keep Trump's tax cuts on the rich. He also pushed for HEAVY additional taxation on corporations and the rich in his Build Back Better Bill, for example.
> He also allowed the Fed to keep printing money.
Yeah, and it's a good thing he did, our recovery from COVID was absolutely spectacular. The landing we had was truly unlike anything seen before. You look at post-Covid GDP growth amongst the G7 and the US is doing laps around the rest of 'em
Anyway, the idea that keeping minor tariffs and "printing money" means their economic policies are indistinguishable is absurd.
Meanie_Cream_Cake | 3 hours ago
>Yeah, and it's a good thing he did, our recovery from COVID was absolutely spectacular. The landing we had was truly unlike anything seen before.
Well then enjoy the inflation.
BidenGlazer | 3 hours ago
Wage growth was already outpacing inflation growth by 2023. I'd rather deal with ~2 years of inflation to prevent the economy from cratering. Countries like Germany are still seeing their economy shrink
cmack | 3 hours ago
That's most recently from The Republicans Epstein War in Iran.
Biden and his team landed it, yes
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/02/business/economy/soft-landing-economy-inflation.html
cmack | 3 hours ago
Liar.
TheNatural14063 | 2 hours ago
Objectively "both sides" are not the same and you sound either like an ignorant troll or just ignorant. Democrats would have prevented alot of the harm we have seen come to people who work for a living the past year when it comes to economic issues and other issues.
It was Republicans who pushed DOGE that cut hundreds of thousands of working class jobs in Federal government and supporting contractors. Not Democrats. Democrats expanded government jobs and supporting contractor jobs over the years, opening up doors to the middle class for hundreds of thousands of working people. Republicans own that harm and the resulting increases in unemployment from the federal cuts and resulting decline in consumer spending in areas. Harris wasnt cutting these jobs.
The BBB cuts funding to healthcare and education. Millions of people are losing access to healthcare as a result of this. Republicans are to blame for this. Harris wouldn't have done this.
Republicans are the ones pushing the stupid poorly planned tarrifs that have caused price increases and job losses. Harris wasnt going to do this.
Republicans are the ones who have started this war with Iran. Harris wasnt doing this to cause price increases of gas and other issues
It is Republicans who repealed Roe vs Wade, stripping away abortion rights for millions. Not Democrats.
It is Republicans who are taking away rights from LGTBQ people. Harris wouldn't have done this.
It is Republicans who killed student loan forgiveness who killed affordable income based repayment plans like SAVE pushed by Biden, which has led to many people owing thousands more per year and straining individual budgets. Harris wasnt doing this.
Both parties are "not the same" We are in a better shape and all these people helped if Harris got elected.
Any-Tennis4658 | 3 hours ago
Republicans and Democrats don't care. Nobody does. They enrich themselves.
CWSandTKP | 3 hours ago
That’s a terrible take.
Our lives are better when (actual) Democrats are in charge. They’re often a lot worse when any Republican is.
If you don’t bother to vote because you think “it doesn’t matter, they’re all crooks” you’re as responsible for bad government as the fools who voted for it, out of bigotry and intolerance.
Any-Tennis4658 | 3 hours ago
Of course, Democrats are amazing, wow the best party
😂 Reddit is a clown show
TheGreatDay | 3 hours ago
That isn't what they said. There is actual statistical proof that under Democratic leadership, the country, specifically the economy, does better.
That doesn't mean that the Democratic Party can't improve or be better than they are.
wackOverflow | 2 hours ago
The statistical proof actually shows the economy does better when democrats hold the White House and the republicans hold congress.
So_HauserAspen | 3 hours ago
Because people voted for republicans to destroy the country and then people like you go and act like both parties are the same.
It people like you. You fall for the confidence scheme. You accept that they don't care because you vote against those people.
Any-Tennis4658 | 3 hours ago
Democrats got dementia geriatric and lala Kamala in front of the voters lol
cmack | 3 hours ago
Liar.
Who is and has been in power the entire twenty-first century minus 62 days. THE REPUBLICANS.
Any-Tennis4658 | 3 hours ago
Uh
What
Sandscarab24 | an hour ago
Luigi?
happy_snowy_owl | 3 hours ago
How are politicians supposed to solve people's poor spending and budgeting?
crazycatlady331 | 3 hours ago
By telling them not to eat avocado toast. </s>
happy_snowy_owl | an hour ago
That was a rhetorical question.
I would be able to afford the cost of living in my area on a minimum wage salary. It's tight, but doable. That includes a 2 BR apartment (ironically not any more expensive than a one-bedroom), a car, high speed internet, and an unlimited data smartphone plan.
This is in an area that people normally call HCOL.
Considering only 10% of the people in my state make minimum wage, the other 90% of people have spending problems.
BroughtBagLunchSmart | 47 minutes ago
No one wants to live in a deep red shit hole surrounded by religious fanatics.
happy_snowy_owl | 30 minutes ago
My state has zero Republican representatives or senators and a Democrat supermajority in the state legislature.
Illustrious-Lime-878 | 2 hours ago
The truth is no, politicians or those in power are not "supposed" to do anything, in fact they should be expected by default to act in their own interest. The problem is people have this false expectation that in modern developed countries, governments are for the people, having taken for granted what was the case only because people in the past ensured it by actually being skeptical of their representative's interests. Today the priority of voters is actually swapped where the ethical or moral quality of representatives take a back seat to their proclaimed policies, which is the exact opposite of how voters should prioritize who they support. This has lead to government run by pandering, lying demagogues, and there shouldn't be any surprise at this or expectation that they will act in the interest of the people.
FlautenceWizard | 4 hours ago
I don't know but maybe, just maybe people should stop electing out-of-touch billionaries who act like the word groceries is a new thing, who refer to gas price increase as peanuts, and who called a past statement in which they said they don't cate about the cost of living "a perfect statement"?
jpoolio | 3 hours ago
I think it's more that we need to undo the system where politicians can and do accept bribes to up their net worth millions of dollars within one or two years. And also end insider trading.
Politicians are paid to vote against the interests of the people that they represent, and any values that they may have once held.
There are a few democrats who haven't become rich while legislating but only a handful. And that handful is attacked the most.
Orbital_IV | 4 hours ago
I foresee protests, riots, and political violence coming to the United States in the near future. Something has to give here. We are all drowning.
chickyloo42by10 | 4 hours ago
Tbh, I’m a little surprised it hasn’t happened already, but then again, Americans aren’t exactly famous for their class solidarity.
great_whitehope | 3 hours ago
Americans are anything but united ironically
Orbital_IV | 3 hours ago
Hey recently I’m starting to bond with my MAGA neighbors over our shared love of native plants. I think there’s still hope for unification!
Euphoric_Regret_544 | 3 hours ago
Native plants? Yay
Orbital_IV | 2 hours ago
Got to start somewhere
Y__U__MAD | an hour ago
‘See how all the native plants harmonize and grow with each other? Never letting one big plant come along and grow too big to block the life giving sun? Nature is amazing.’
Orbital_IV | an hour ago
Hey I love you
Tdot-77 | 2 hours ago
There have been measures on societies, individualistic versus collectivist. The US is an outlier to the extreme on individualism, and it works to the benefit of those in power.
So_HauserAspen | 3 hours ago
Theories say that as the gini coefficient moves towards 1, social and political unrest increase. We used to have a healthier distribution of wealth. Now it has started the final-stage aggregation towards the single person holding all the wealth.
RedAero | 12 minutes ago
Those theories are idiotic. No one has ever decided to risk their life and livelihood just because someone else is doing better than them, people do so when they are destitute. And as long as the poorest Americans remain the fattest, that isn't happening.
livingbkk | 3 hours ago
I mean, the US people voted for this. Everyone says economics is the most important issue for voters, and yet they chose this guy for a second time. People voted to get robbed. You can protest and riot, but that only gives the regime credibility in repressing the people. Voting is the only way.
sisterwilderness | 3 hours ago
This should have happened long ago. I have zero faith.
The_yulaow | 3 hours ago
I mean, from an outsider standpoint USA people seem very "anesthetized" and without defense against the overpowering control rich americans are imposing on them. The fact the culture there is over individualistic doesn't help because there is not even the will to unite against a common enemy
It feels like we will sooner see the reintroduction of slavery as a way to pay back debt than any kind of social uprising against the status quo
james_the_wanderer | an hour ago
Unfortunately, whenever someone does try to organize around the overpowering control of the glitteratti, some sort of ultimately peripheral issue converts the class war into an identity politics dispute that turns into a circular firing squad.
AllenIll | 2 hours ago
> [...] political violence coming to the United States
There have been two armed gunmen who have stormed the location of the President just nine days apart. On some level, we are already there. But, I think I get your point. It's likely going to get worse.
Preme2 | 3 hours ago
I feel like the doomer politics sub and the r/salary sub should come together. One sub is saying how terrible everything is and the other sub posts high six figure salaries all day and say how great their lives are.
Freaky_Barbers | 53 minutes ago
The k shaped economy is real. Depending on your bubble everything is truly horrible, or your trip to Japan just got more expensive (but you’re still gonna go, obviously).
CyberSmith31337 | an hour ago
I don’t think people have come to terms with the headline. So let me bold it.
No one cares.
This isn’t a voter issue. This is a systemic issue. The government is captured. The oligarchs and corporations run the show now. They aren’t going to stop. An election isn’t going to fix this.
The reality is that only violent upheaval and the seizure of the means of production is going to get the working class any leverage. Why do you think they are pushing so hard for AI? They know. They KNOW that once they rob the working class of the means of production permanently that there will be no going back.
I’m in disbelief at how many people still seem to think that elections, the law, the government, Congress, etc, are coming to save us. They are part of the issue, not the solution.
GreatGojira | 3 hours ago
Voters would rather vote for X party than vote for candidates that actually cares.
I live in a red state, and there mind set is, "I may not be able to afford the Insulin I need. But at least I didn't vote for a Democrat." My own mother made that comment before I cut them off.
Which this isn't an attack on just. Republicans. I don't like to do same thing both sides, as this administration is the most corrupt in oir nation history, but it includes Democrats who take PAC money who serve corpo donors over there constituents.
Reform needs to start on a local level to show change is possible.
Calm-Swim-2132 | 2 hours ago
good job at cutting out the cancer 🎉🎉🎉
wackOverflow | 2 hours ago
If you put a political party over family, you might be the cancer lol
Old_Criticism_6889 | 3 hours ago
Until we do what we should have to confederate states during reconstruction, we won’t get out. Republican Party needs to be outlawed. Rank choice voting, term limits, non partisan district drawing, no corporate donations, and we don’t need senate, just the house. Don’t need 2 senators in south dakata, north dakatoa, Wyoming etc having more senators than citizens of New York. One thing framers got wrong was they thought each state would act as a singular party and that there wouldn’t be strong national factions and here we are
grumpyliberal | 2 hours ago
All you rank choice voting advocates have no idea. Right now in CA we could wind up with two Republicans as the top vote getters in the PRIMARY because there are 61! candidates on the ballot. Most of those are democrats. Who knows how many of the others are financed by Republicans. The irony is that we might have a Republican governor in a state that voted to redistrict to reduce the number of Republican districts.
deeziegator | 3 hours ago
Trump is the best r/anticonsumption president we’ve had in a long time, quite the paradox! If there is any silver lining, we’re hopefully going to have people that begin to value things like mending clothes rather than waste them, turn cheap meals into good ones, spend time at the library instead of with 20 streaming services.
And12oss | 4 hours ago
People’s expectations have risen exponentially as well. So people expect more as part of their core living and the costs of all of that have gone up.
It’s a double whammy.
MainInvestigator3481 | 3 hours ago
What are people’s expectations that have risen exponentially?
Edit added 43 minutes later: 76% of the population, and you assholes pretend like it’s the individual and not the fucked yo economy. Don’t bother responding to me. I don’t give a fuck what you have to say. I will block you with relish
Edit again: an hour and a half later. Hey economists: I don’t care. You have extracted humanity from a conversation where 76% of people say they cannot afford to live.
I cannot state enough; how I absolutely do not care to hear your excuses
And12oss | 3 hours ago
House size, car, technology, vacations.
I think people don’t realize that starter homes back when “a single income could support a family” were <1000sqft. Luxury car ownership as a percentage of total goes up almost every year. People vacation far, far, far more than ever before. And not the motel/days inn or camper. But “luxury” vacation.
We also eat out more than prior generations, especially lunch.
Make no mistake, education, healthcare, housing and other staples have seen remarkable inflation. But we’re also not helping ourselves with the expectations we increasingly have.
happy_snowy_owl | 3 hours ago
>Make no mistake, education, healthcare, housing and other staples have seen remarkable inflation.
When adjusted for price per square foot, housing in aggregate has not risen more than inflation.
Of course, housing markets are highly localized, so you get some areas like San Diego that exploded since 2016, and some areas like Detroit which have not.
Healthcare, OTOH... we're living through what everyone said would happen when the ACA was signed that mandated a corporate middle-man in the healthcare payment process and then tied having that privilege to working full-time. But anytime someone brings up healthcare reform, establishment Democrats fear-monger everyone into thinking they'd be without healthcare.
It shouldn't surprise the reader that healthcare conglomerates are among the largest donors to the DNC.
weatherwar | 12 minutes ago
No one talks about house safety improvements (a new build today costs $XXX!") or trim level either.
Just like cars. First, it's closer than you'd expect AND financing options were worse: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/average-car-cost-were-born-130001087.html
Second, a car being $22,000 is great. But it also didn't have airbags, any electronics, and an expected life of <120,000 miles.
thatsonlyme312 | 3 hours ago
I'm sure there is some truth to this, but many of these expenses are not optional. Then there is also probably some YOLO as people's perspective on money has shifted. When all of your expenses have doubled or worse, whe each emergency costs thousands instead of hundreds, what's an extra couple hundreds bucks per month for a more expensive car? What's an extra thousand spent on vacation or another thing that makes you happy?
I've tried for years to be responsible in my spending. I drive a used, 17 years old, but well maintained car. I like primitive camping so my vacations are very cheap. Cooking is my passion so I very rarely eat out. My rent is reasonably cheap for the location as I lived here for years. I maintain my own cars, cook my own food l, buy my own groceries and overall spend way less than most other people who have to pay for those services.
All this to say is that I've experienced almost no lifestyle creep. I've also received decent raises and promotions over the years. Yet all of my basic expenses have increased so significantly, that I frequently just end up buying things I would probably think twice in the past because why not?
When my apartment used to cost $1000 per month, my car insurance was $50, for $100-150 I could buy a cart full of groceries, my dogs vet visits were in hundreds instead of thousands, spending couple hundred on things I wanted but didn't need seemed like a luxury. For comparison, I recently spent $350 on headphones and it didn't even register, because that was just a little more than my weekly cart of groceries. I'm even considering getting a electric new car, because at this point I spend so much on gas each month, that even a car payment wouldn't be much more (and I hate car payments).
So yeah, people are spreading like there is no tomorrow, because no one knows what tomorrow will bring anymore.
weatherwar | 19 minutes ago
> because no one knows what tomorrow will bring
Literally could be said any point in history.
MainInvestigator3481 | 3 hours ago
What is the expectation? Also what are the “cheap” options that are less? You’re coming off as disconnected if you think the problems don’t stem from a society that has priced out the average person.
How much does a used car go for today? What’s the average insurance? How much has the price of housing increased in the last two decades/
You do the work of the rich when you word your argument so.
happy_snowy_owl | 3 hours ago
73% of households have an auto loan payment and they average about $500 / mo. The cheapest vehicles on the market today MSRP for $20,000 (which would be a $280 / mo payment with 20% down), so this indicates that people are electing to buy cars in the $35-50k price range.
I can find dozens of used cars in great conditions at the $8-$10k price point. That's 3 months of minimum wage salary. Or, if you put $2,000 down, it's $100-150/mo, which is 4-6% of a minimum wage income.
The average square footage for a home has risen from 1500 sq ft to 2200 sq ft. Almost everyone has central AC when it wasn't a thing 20+ years ago. Amazingly, electricity costs money and many utilities use tiered pricing where your usage gets significantly more expensive as you consume more electricity.
I can find over a dozen properties for sale under the $300k price point in my area. They sit on the market forever because they are too small or in a "bad neighborhood" (in quotations because that's a euphemism in the northeast for too many minorities).
johncreasy9 | an hour ago
Honest question since I haven’t lived there in a long time. Where in the northeast can you buy a house for $300k close to job opportunities? Looking at Waltham, MA, which used to be considered an affordable part of the Boston area, the cheapest option is 700 for a 1400 square foot home and quickly gets over 1 mil. Are you talking rural upstate NY or something?
And12oss | 3 hours ago
It’s two-fold. People have lifted expectations for a more comfortable lifestyle than most humans have lived before and to do it fairly affordably. And maybe that isn’t unfair to ask with advancements in technology and productivity, but it’s only doubling the pain.
Luxury cars are the perfect example. People chase status and luxury even if economic options are cheaper to own, insure, and maintain.
Starter homes went from an average of like 800sqft to 1400sqft. Shit got expensive, but so did people’s tastes and expectations.
MainInvestigator3481 | 3 hours ago
You didn’t answer any of my questions. Nor did you say anything different than you did the first time. Who made things so expensive? Who got rid of all of the cheaper options?
If you don’t say the rich, then you aren’t coming from a realistic place.
Edit: got rid of a word
And12oss | 3 hours ago
You have an axe to grind, but people are the way they are. Trucks got bigger, cars became SUVs, SUVs became mega SUVs. That’s not some Bezos or Zuckerberg plot. That’s just people wanting more.
Commemorative-Banana | 3 hours ago
Actually it’s because our dumbass vehicle emissions laws are proportional to the scale of the vehicle.
So instead of making engines more sustainable/efficient, it’s much easier to just make everything larger. It’s a severe abuse of the original scope of the SUV platform.
^(Caveat: vehicles also got larger because of crumple zones, which is good. Ideally, you’d have large crumple zones to protect drivers and a low hood to protect pedestrians.)
The “oligarch plot” part is also still relevant, since Oil and Automobile lobbies have spent decades shaping US society towards total car dependency. For most households, a car is not a luxury but instead a necessity.
That said, I agree that all luxury markets are vain and inane, including cars, and plenty of poor suckers get roped by usurers into big leases so they can enjoy a short-term display of status. But again it’s hard to see these irresponsible individual choices as independent of larger systems. i.e. Marketers and advertisers constantly create this demand for social status by bullying people into thinking they aren’t enough; the gatekeeping of entrepreneurship behind access to startup capital cuts out what would be a more productive source of intrinsic self-worth. People with few options turn to unhealthy options, see also: gambling.
crazycatlady331 | 3 hours ago
The reason cars were gradually replaced with trucks and SUVs is a loophole in the fuel economy standards.
And12oss | 3 hours ago
But every major manufacturer offers a sedan option. Every major manufacturer advertises their sedan option.
And their sedans, largely, are cheaper than their SUVs.
crazycatlady331 | 2 hours ago
They do but they're not nearly as advertised.
In addition, the affordable entry-level car without all the bells and whistles is all but dead. IIRC only the Nissan Versa fits this today.
TheBigGees | 3 hours ago
>Who got rid of all of the cheaper options?
Nobody...?
The fact that people spend more on average for things like vehicles or homes does not mean that there aren't lower cost solutions available in most markets.
Where there aren't lower cost solutions, it is usually due to government regulations. Zoning preventing development of housing, for example.
PlutoNZL | 2 hours ago
>Who made things so expensive? Who got rid of all of the cheaper options?
Consumers did. It's simply supply and demand. No one wants cheap houses, cars, food, etc.
Companies could build small, cheap, 1960 style houses with no AC, tiny bedrooms, and laminate countertops, but the demand isn't there.
MainInvestigator3481 | 2 hours ago
Yall… just can’t read. But you can “argue numbers”
weatherwar | 9 minutes ago
> Who made things so expensive?
Inflation and regulation.
sisterwilderness | 3 hours ago
Yeah that’s a bad take. People are struggling to afford basics, not luxury cars and houses with extra bedrooms.
MainInvestigator3481 | 3 hours ago
They seem hell bent on defending their position. It’s disconnected from reality, but it’s their position.
walkingthecowww | 3 hours ago
Inflation adjusted real wages are higher than they have ever been.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
MainInvestigator3481 | 3 hours ago
Now do it against the cost of living.
ishboo3002 | 3 hours ago
That's what inflation adjusted means
defaultedebt | an hour ago
You're outing yourself as somebody who knows nothing about economics.
TheBigGees | 3 hours ago
Real means inflation adjusted. Inflation is based on CPI.
fightinfilipino2008 | 3 hours ago
man you haven’t talked with a millennial or Gen Zer recently have you. expectations are LOWER now. we all know how screwed the economy is.
And12oss | 3 hours ago
I am a millennial and my wife is borderline Gen Z. Expectations are higher in many ways, we have friends who refuse to buy the 3 bed 2 bath because they need an office and two bedrooms for kids. That’s the growth second home for a family 30 years ago.
Luxury car ownership is highest among millennials and Gen Z among any previous cohort at their stage of life. More kids buying luxury SUVs than economic sedans.
People are much more pessimistic about the economy but are spending more and feeling poorer. It’s the dual-threat problem.
originalgrapeninja | 3 hours ago
Amen. People are broke from spending.
That doesn't mean that politicians aren't in a death cult, it just means that people should budget and save for more secjrity.
cmack | 3 hours ago
A lot of young people expect to be Vice President of the company making 400K a year by age 26.
Reality is that 60 years ago, a lot of folks didn't have shoes....now everyone has a cellphone. How is that for expectations?
fogcat5 | an hour ago
shoes don't cost what they did 60 years ago and they don't last as long. just being a viable employee costs hundreds more and years of study now. you are ignorant and stuck in the past blaming the victims of a system you lucked into
MainInvestigator3481 | 3 hours ago
You’re not worth the argument.
cchhaannttzz | an hour ago
I make good money and every two weeks my family has to wonder if we'll get our bills paid. We're one small disaster away from dire straights all the time. Buying groceries, utilities, fuel, medical care (with insurance), and putting clothes on our backs are drowning us. My job could give me ten dollars an hour more but it wouldn't change a thing cause everything is so damn expensive.
Thevsamovies | 2 hours ago
I don't wanna hear Americans complain about the cost of living after they elected an insane man who campaigned on a whole list of economy-crashing policies and a history of warmongering.
AgileDrag1469 | 3 hours ago
The United States is basically the prototype for mass consumption by any means necessary. It is the core biological DNA of the USA. It was only a matter of time before it became the dominant genetic trait. Colonization of an “empty” land, genocide of indigenous people, slavery, racism, multiple coup d’etats, avoidable wars, black sites, Guantanamo Bay, economic imperialism, 51st state colonialism, flood the zone authoritarianism and techno-feudalism. The USA has never been what’s its marketing department through abundant consumption presented itself to be.
nplbmf | 3 hours ago
We’re horrible at planning from the jump and are trained to spend ourselves into debt.
I’m one of them.
Stop spending money. Budget. Work in reality.
You think we’re gonna elect someone to lower prices or pay you more? Good luck with that. Half the country wants trump to run again.
yeahsureYnot | 4 hours ago
Isn’t this the expected result of capitalism? Every business is trying its hardest to separate people from as much of their money as possible. That’s an insane amount of cost pressure, especially when so much technology and data is available to these corporations.
Sadly_NotAPlatypus | 2 hours ago
I don't think reducing all of capitalism to one monolithic idea like this is productive or helpful. Do capitalist governments have congressional or parliamentary systems? Is the majority of the economy private or public? Is there a large degree of social services or not? Does the justice system represent most everyone well or are there special classes that are privileged?
The answers to all these questions are yes, it depends which capitalist country you care to examine. Capitalism isn't one model or one idea, it's dozens of them all existing simultaneously.
So is this the expected results of American capitalism? Sure, probably. Is this the expected result of "capitalism" writ large? I don't think you can distill capitalism into one idea like that; the Scandinavian countries are highly capitalist for example while having a dramatically different and even contradictory idea of what capitalism is or should be to the USA for example.
So_HauserAspen | 3 hours ago
You don't mean late-stage capitalism, do you?
BlackTransMaam2 | 2 hours ago
Why should this surprise anyone? Go to any money/finance forum and it quickly devolves into those with <3% mortgages patting themselves on the back and humble bragging how its the key to their economic prosperity while others are just locked out of housing and stuck being exposed to rapidly rising rents while wages stagnate.
Easy-Marsupial3268 | 2 hours ago
This is the society that capitalism breeds. We monetized every aspect of our lives and put a profit motive on existence. Yes, nobody cares because capitalism is alienating.
anonymousasu | 4 hours ago
I mean, read about the candidate you’re voting for? Average Americans are so uninformed it’s embarrassing. Concrete thinkers need their Snap and Medicaid turned off I suppose…enjoy 2027, you knuckleheads.
MalikTheHalfBee | 2 hours ago
All these comments are yet another example of how out of touch Americans are with the rest of the world. If Americans had to live as frugally as most Europeans do their heads would explode let alone how the developing world lives. These woah of me, I have it so much worse than anyone else comments are nauseating
HighhBrid | 2 hours ago
All the simpletons in the comments focusing on who is president when you should instead be thinking about your representatives in Congress and more at the state and local level. Is the president responsible for your local zoning laws and limiting building permits? The person who’s president doesn’t make every decision in society
BoratOhtani | 2 hours ago
The younger generation needs to get involved more in politics by running for office instead of just voting or even worst just bitching about it online.
Can’t get a job? Why not run for city office? I heard politicians have a pretty sweet gig.
You’re telling me the best LA has the offer for mayor is Karen Bass or Spencer Pratt??? We need more A.O.C in politics.
Test-NetConnection | an hour ago
I know this is an economics sub, but it's not just the money. There is an aura of despair everywhere I go, a general malaise. Day by day nothing gets better, in fact it is getting worse. Housing is unaffordable, the general populace is one health emergency away from bankruptcy, social security is set to be insolvent, and our government representatives are openly, brazenly corrupted. Now fair elections are a thing of the past with partisan gerrymandering allowing candidates to select their voters and the death of the voting rights act. Our courts are captured and every bit as partisan as our corrupt representatives. Our president can commit crimes with impunity knowing that he can never be prosecuted while his conspirators are rewarded with millions and pardons. Combine all of this with inflation, tariffs that meddle with free markets, and the gutting of the SEC that has made insider tragic ubiquitous. Then there is the gun violence and school shootings that get more prevalent by the day because we refuse to fix the problem. The power of the NRA expemplies the corruption that permeates Washington. There is the "AI boom" used as an excuse for mass layoffs, whether true or not, and it will either dramatically raise the unemployment rate or leave mainstream holding the bag. The requirements are being changed for entry into the SP so billionaires like Elon Musk can get even richer by forcing every pension function, endowment, and individual to buy his unprofitable, shitty companies via mutual funds in their IRA'S. The federal and state tax burden continues to shift towards the lower and middle class through regressive policies while borrowing from the future of the young, all so the wealthy of today can have a second yacht. It's no wonder Americans are quickly adopting a YOLO mentality and giving up on the future. I just don't know how we get out of this mess or what comes next. It feels like we should be long past the torches and pitchforks phase, but there has been no trigger for this to happen. Just a slow downward spiral of misery. I am ready to give up. I want it to end.
Happy_Feet333 | an hour ago
There's no pitchforks and rioting, because deep-down, 2/3rds of the electorate know they CHOSE all that.
And the last thing a person can handle is admitting they're a gullible idiot who is the cause of their own misfortune.
Test-NetConnection | 28 minutes ago
I'm not sure this is true. First past the post voting, unlimited sums of money in elections, gerrymandering, and the electoral college has significantly limited the influence of voters. If you live in a deep blue or deep red state your vote doesn't matter outside of primary elections, and even then who shows up on the ballot is usually predetermined by the DNC and RNC. Only about a third of eligible voters actually vote because their vote literally doesn't matter.
talino2321 | an hour ago
2/3 of the electorate either directly or indirectly voted for this. Why are they surprised?
---------------------------------- This is filler -----------------------
Leatherworking
/way #2393 44.8 56.2 Artisan's Considered Order Silver moon X
/way #2536 45.2 45.3 Bundle of Tanner's Trinkets Zul'Aman X
/way #2437 33.1 78.9 Amani Leatherworker's Tool Zul'Aman X
/way #2413 36.1 25.2 Haranir Leatherworking Knife Harandar X
/way #2405 34.8 56.9 Ethereal Leatherworking Knife Void Storm
/way #2437 30.8 84.1 Prestigiously Racked Hide Zul'Aman X
/way #2413 51.8 51.3 Haranir Leatherworking Mallet Harandar X
/way #2444 53.8 51.6 Pattern: Beyond The Void - Voidstorm, Slayer's Rise
Skinning
/way #2393 43.2 55.7 Sin'dorei Tanning Oil Silvermoon X
/way #2395 48.5 76.2 Thalassian Skinning Knife Eversong Solaarian Sunbath X
/way #2437 40.4 36.0 Amani Tanning Oil Zul'Aman X
/way #2437 33.1 79.0 Amani Skinning Knife Zul'Aman Torntusk Village X
/way #2536 45.0 44.7 Cadre Skinning Knife Atal'aman Altar of Malacrass X
/way #2413 69.5 49.2 Primal Hide Harandar, Har'athir X
/way #2413 76.0 51.0 Lightbloom Afflicted Hide Harandar, Amirdrassil Roots
/way #2444 45.5 42.4 Voidstorm Leather Sample Voidstorm, Slayer's Rise
Blacksmithing
/way #2393 49.3 61.3 Sin'dorei Master's Forgemace Silvermoon City X
/way #2393 48.5 74.8 Silvermoon Blacksmith's Hammer Silvermoon City X
/way #2393 26.9 60.3 Deconstructed Forge Techniques Silvermoon City X
/way #2395 56.8 40.7 Metalworking Cheat Sheet Eversong Woods X
/way #2395 48.3 75.7 Silvermoon Smithing Kit Eversong Woods X
/way #2536 33.2 65.8 Carefully Racked Spear Zul'Aman
/way #2413 66.3 50.8 Rutaani Floratender's Sword Harandar
/way #2444 30.6 68.9 Voidstorm Defense Spear Voidstorm, Slayers Rise
/run local f=C_QuestLog.IsQuestFlaggedCompleted for k,i in pairs({FM=89183,BH=89184,DF=89177,MC=89180,SK=89178,CR=89179,RF=80416,VD=89181})do print(k..":",({"Missing","Collected"})[f(i)and 2 or 1])end
Engineering
/way #2393 51.2 57.1 What To Do When Nothing Works Silvermoon City X
/way #2393 51.4 74.6 One Engineer's Junk Silvermoon City X
/way #2395 39.5 45.8 Manual of Mistakes and Mishaps Eversong X
/way #2536 65.1 34.5 Offline Helper Bot Zul'Aman X
/way #2437 34.2 87.9 Handy Wrench Zul'Aman
/way #2413 67.9 49.8 Expeditious Pylon Harandar
/way #2444 54.0 51.0 Ethereal Stormwrench Voidstorm, Slayer's Rise
/way #2444 29.0 39.2 Miniaturized Transport Skiff Voidstorm Slayer's Rise
Kataphractoi | 8 minutes ago
I hate that I know exactly what I'm looking at, but I choose to believe this post is the equivalent of a numbers station broadcast during the Cold War.